[OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by billhoward
[OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: April 29, 2004 06:20PM
Thinking of Andy Noel's comment in the Cornell Daily Sun to the effect that Lynah appears due for refurbishing got me to thinking: Who has the best sports facilities in the Ivy League? Even a old facility is great for the home team when it's big and it's packed (hello, Lynah). For lacrosse, Princeton's Class of 1952 field, a 4000-5000 seat facility apart from the football field, is just superb (as it is for soccer and field hockey) because it's just the right size for the sports that use it. So: Who has the Ivy best facilities for hockey, for football, for basketball, for wrestling, etcetera?
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: April 29, 2004 06:33PM
Interesting question.
Haven't been to Friedman, so I can't compare it with the Palestra, where Penn holds at least its "big" wrestling matches.
I've always been partial to Harvard Stadium for football, because of the seating so close to the field with very steep banking. Wish it had benches, though. Princeton's new football stadium is very well done, especially the fact that it's enclosed at both ends (IIRC). Quite a to-do when they decided to scrap old Palmer.
Haven't been to Friedman, so I can't compare it with the Palestra, where Penn holds at least its "big" wrestling matches.
I've always been partial to Harvard Stadium for football, because of the seating so close to the field with very steep banking. Wish it had benches, though. Princeton's new football stadium is very well done, especially the fact that it's enclosed at both ends (IIRC). Quite a to-do when they decided to scrap old Palmer.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 29, 2004 08:13PM
Princeton Stadium also integrates well into campus life. The innards of the stadium has walkways and offices and meeting rooms, so it's meant to be used througout the year. It's not just a big spectator shell used only a half-dozen times a year.
It's also going to remain "Princeton Stadium" until someone ponies up a couple million for the naming rights.
It's also going to remain "Princeton Stadium" until someone ponies up a couple million for the naming rights.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 29, 2004 08:17PM
In Ithaca, the perfect place for a small secondary stadium a la Princeton's Class of 1952 lax / soccer field would be on Lower Alumni Field, the practice field just north of Teagle Hall.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 29, 2004 09:26PM
For hockey, I would rank them:
1. Cornell
-GAP-
2. Harvard
3. Dartmouth
4. Princeton
5. Yale
-GAP-
6. Brown
1. Cornell
-GAP-
2. Harvard
3. Dartmouth
4. Princeton
5. Yale
-GAP-
6. Brown
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.no.no.cox.net)
Date: April 29, 2004 10:08PM
I haven't been to the new Princeton Stadium, but I hit the other seven as an undergrad (and Palmer Stadium the fall of my first year out), and I was most impressed with the Yale Bowl. Of course, that may just be because it was a gorgeous day when we were there.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: O.S.B. (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: April 29, 2004 11:12PM
[Q]For hockey, I would rank them:
1. Cornell
-GAP-
2. Harvard
3. Dartmouth
4. Princeton
5. Yale
-GAP-
6. Brown [Q]
Lynah's only good when packed, it's not really that fun playing there when no one is there
1. Cornell
-GAP-
2. Harvard
3. Dartmouth
4. Princeton
5. Yale
-GAP-
6. Brown [Q]
Lynah's only good when packed, it's not really that fun playing there when no one is there
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: nyc94 (---.focaldata.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 12:40AM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
In Ithaca, the perfect place for a small secondary stadium a la Princeton's Class of 1952 lax / soccer field would be on Lower Alumni Field, the practice field just north of Teagle Hall. [/q]
Aren't they going to build a biotech building there?
In Ithaca, the perfect place for a small secondary stadium a la Princeton's Class of 1952 lax / soccer field would be on Lower Alumni Field, the practice field just north of Teagle Hall. [/q]
Aren't they going to build a biotech building there?
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 08:10AM
The Life Sciences Building is going on Lower Alumni Field. Until a large donor comes along or they name it for Hunter, that's what it will be known as.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 08:24AM
Well, having been to all eight campuses and seen many different sports at those campuses, I'll weigh in and admit where I don't know something:
Football:
Best:
Tie: Princeton Stadium - a great looking multi-purpose facility but I was sad to see Palmer go (was at Princeton for that 98 Cornell-Princeton opener)
Harvard Stadium - for what Al said and for the fact that it fills up for Yale-Harvard (okay, it's only once every two years); Harvard has so much land now, that it doesn't need offices in there. Princeton's a little bit more pressed for space.
Worst:
Dartmouth - port-a-potties for the visitors - 'nuff said - I guess one could have a trough or wall discussion here too.
Hockey:
Best: Taking Cornell's out of the equation, I'd go with Princeton for building history and closeness to the action; closeness to the action puts Harvard up there too.
Worst: Penn
Basketball:
Best: Jadwin at Princeton
Worst: Dartmouth
Lacrosse:
Best: Class of 1952 at Princeton
Worst: Okay, I won't say Columbia - Cornell fans are really removed and especially if you're talking women's lacrosse
Soccer:
Best: Class of 1952 at Princeton
Worst: Sadly, I think it might be us - do we still play on lower alumni field?
Baseball:
I don't know enough but I like real dugouts
Wrestling:
Ask Andy Noel
Football:
Best:
Tie: Princeton Stadium - a great looking multi-purpose facility but I was sad to see Palmer go (was at Princeton for that 98 Cornell-Princeton opener)
Harvard Stadium - for what Al said and for the fact that it fills up for Yale-Harvard (okay, it's only once every two years); Harvard has so much land now, that it doesn't need offices in there. Princeton's a little bit more pressed for space.
Worst:
Dartmouth - port-a-potties for the visitors - 'nuff said - I guess one could have a trough or wall discussion here too.
Hockey:
Best: Taking Cornell's out of the equation, I'd go with Princeton for building history and closeness to the action; closeness to the action puts Harvard up there too.
Worst: Penn
Basketball:
Best: Jadwin at Princeton
Worst: Dartmouth
Lacrosse:
Best: Class of 1952 at Princeton
Worst: Okay, I won't say Columbia - Cornell fans are really removed and especially if you're talking women's lacrosse
Soccer:
Best: Class of 1952 at Princeton
Worst: Sadly, I think it might be us - do we still play on lower alumni field?
Baseball:
I don't know enough but I like real dugouts
Wrestling:
Ask Andy Noel
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: cornelldavy (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 09:00AM
[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
Hockey:
Best: Taking Cornell's out of the equation, I'd go with Princeton for building history and closeness to the action; closeness to the action puts Harvard up there too.
Worst: Penn
[/q]
I know Penn doesn't have a team anymore, but Class of 1923 Rink is a facility I always liked...my high school hockey team used to practice there, and I remember from a player's standpoint that the locker rooms were more spacious than most other rinks and that it probably seated more than most, if not all, of the other Ivy rinks. I also remember that when you stood on the west goal line to line up for suicides, your line of sight out the windows at the northeast entrance to the building lined up perfectly so you could read the scrolling text at the top of the PECO building.
Hockey:
Best: Taking Cornell's out of the equation, I'd go with Princeton for building history and closeness to the action; closeness to the action puts Harvard up there too.
Worst: Penn
[/q]
I know Penn doesn't have a team anymore, but Class of 1923 Rink is a facility I always liked...my high school hockey team used to practice there, and I remember from a player's standpoint that the locker rooms were more spacious than most other rinks and that it probably seated more than most, if not all, of the other Ivy rinks. I also remember that when you stood on the west goal line to line up for suicides, your line of sight out the windows at the northeast entrance to the building lined up perfectly so you could read the scrolling text at the top of the PECO building.
___________________________
Alex F. '03 * [www.uclahockey.org]
Alex F. '03 * [www.uclahockey.org]
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 09:29AM
[Q]nyc94 Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:
In Ithaca, the perfect place for a small secondary stadium a la Princeton's Class of 1952 lax / soccer field would be on Lower Alumni Field, the practice field just north of Teagle Hall. [/Q]
Aren't they going to build a biotech building there?
[/q]
I think there's an understanding: If anything ever were to be built on the double wide Lower Alumni Field, Upper Alumni Field would remain inviolate and green unto eternity. <g>
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 09:40AM
You said how nice Penn's Class of '23 Rink (built circa 1970, I think, just in time for Penn to fold hockey a couple years later) was for visitors' locker rooms. And that raises another good point:
What's best depends on who you are: a player, a visiting player, a spectator, an involved alumnus, a writer/editor, a kid vs. an adult. An outdoor stadium with an overhang is a godsend if it rains during the game. Grassy parking areas are better for tailgating than parking lots. For indoor facilities, a reception room is great for parents and for the AD when he's trying to chat up potential donors.
I believe Penn's Class of '23 rink had a raised, glassed in spectator area for the contributors. I'm trying to recall which Ivy outdoor stadiums (or rinks) have private boxes.
Baker Rink is a great small facility, aging as it is, and at 2000 seats it's adequate for every game save one. On the other hand, the press box is at the end of the rink, which annoys only about 50 people, but they're not the 50 people you want to annoy.
Lynah's connector into other, newer facilities is great for between periods.
Football stadiums without running tracks are the way to go for getting closer to the action.
What's best depends on who you are: a player, a visiting player, a spectator, an involved alumnus, a writer/editor, a kid vs. an adult. An outdoor stadium with an overhang is a godsend if it rains during the game. Grassy parking areas are better for tailgating than parking lots. For indoor facilities, a reception room is great for parents and for the AD when he's trying to chat up potential donors.
I believe Penn's Class of '23 rink had a raised, glassed in spectator area for the contributors. I'm trying to recall which Ivy outdoor stadiums (or rinks) have private boxes.
Baker Rink is a great small facility, aging as it is, and at 2000 seats it's adequate for every game save one. On the other hand, the press box is at the end of the rink, which annoys only about 50 people, but they're not the 50 people you want to annoy.
Lynah's connector into other, newer facilities is great for between periods.
Football stadiums without running tracks are the way to go for getting closer to the action.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: April 30, 2004 09:41AM
Princeton, Harvard, and Brown probably have the best facilities for swimming with modern, 50m pools. Cornell's 6-lane, 25 yard pool is the smallest. I was disappointed that the renovations to the Helen Newman aquatic facilities didn't include reconfiguring the new and old space into a 50m competition pool. As long as they were going to spend the money, it seems like a missed opportunity.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Shorts (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: April 30, 2004 10:49AM
[Q]Soccer:
Best: Class of 1952 at Princeton
Worst: Sadly, I think it might be us - do we still play on lower alumni field?
...
Wrestling:
Ask Andy Noel [/Q]The soccer team currently (at least this past year, probably for the past couple years) plays on Berman field in the "Robert J. Kane Sports Complex". Basically, of the five full-size fields that run along the south side of Tower Road (also including the upper and lower alumni fields), its the one closest to the Vet School. It's got a track around it (as well as assorted track&field facilities next to it, like throwing ranges), and a pretty nice set of bleachers along one side. In my opinion, the backdrop of traditional-looking Vet. school buildings, the trees along tower road, and the top of the Wilson Synchrotron building has a much more college-campus/outdoorsy feel than a lot of more built-up stadiums, where all you have to look at is the bleachers on the other side of the field (for example, Schoellkopf or Princeton's 1952). Although the track does force a little distance between the stands and the field itself, the out-of-bounds lines for soccer are only about a yard in from the edge of the grass, and the front row of seats is pretty close to the ground. As long as the teams aren't drawing huge crowds (Athletics describes its capacity as "over 1,000"
, I think it's a pretty nice place to watch a game.
For wrestling, the new wrestling-only building is pretty sweet. It has over 1,000 seats arranged around three sides of the center mat. From an athlete's standpoint, my understanding is that it has all the bells and whistles that could possibly be rationalized for a one-sport building. From the outside, it looks very modern, to the point that when I saw the plans for the new West Campus community center, I couldn't help thinking that it looked like the love child of Duffield Hall and the Wrestling building. I would be surprised if any of the other Ivies had a better modern facility (although I'm sure there are some very nice older facilities. I've always thought that I'd rather watch a basketball game in the history-rich Barton Hall than high-school-gymnasium-replica Newman Arena).
[Q]I was disappointed that the renovations to the Helen Newman aquatic facilities didn't include reconfiguring the new and old space into a 50m competition pool.[/Q]I'm also a bit surprised that Cornell doesn't have a bigger pool, especially considering the excellent facilities that Yale, for example, has. Of course, the problem with a 50m pool is that it's 25 meters longer than a 25m pool, and so making the change would mean some serious rebuilding, and Helen Newman Hall isn't exactly located in the easiest place for construction, perched over Beebe Lake. Also, my understanding is that the swim teams use Teagle anyway, probably because of its proximity to all the rest of the althetics facilies (weight rooms, coaching offices, parking).
Best: Class of 1952 at Princeton
Worst: Sadly, I think it might be us - do we still play on lower alumni field?
...
Wrestling:
Ask Andy Noel [/Q]The soccer team currently (at least this past year, probably for the past couple years) plays on Berman field in the "Robert J. Kane Sports Complex". Basically, of the five full-size fields that run along the south side of Tower Road (also including the upper and lower alumni fields), its the one closest to the Vet School. It's got a track around it (as well as assorted track&field facilities next to it, like throwing ranges), and a pretty nice set of bleachers along one side. In my opinion, the backdrop of traditional-looking Vet. school buildings, the trees along tower road, and the top of the Wilson Synchrotron building has a much more college-campus/outdoorsy feel than a lot of more built-up stadiums, where all you have to look at is the bleachers on the other side of the field (for example, Schoellkopf or Princeton's 1952). Although the track does force a little distance between the stands and the field itself, the out-of-bounds lines for soccer are only about a yard in from the edge of the grass, and the front row of seats is pretty close to the ground. As long as the teams aren't drawing huge crowds (Athletics describes its capacity as "over 1,000"
, I think it's a pretty nice place to watch a game.
For wrestling, the new wrestling-only building is pretty sweet. It has over 1,000 seats arranged around three sides of the center mat. From an athlete's standpoint, my understanding is that it has all the bells and whistles that could possibly be rationalized for a one-sport building. From the outside, it looks very modern, to the point that when I saw the plans for the new West Campus community center, I couldn't help thinking that it looked like the love child of Duffield Hall and the Wrestling building. I would be surprised if any of the other Ivies had a better modern facility (although I'm sure there are some very nice older facilities. I've always thought that I'd rather watch a basketball game in the history-rich Barton Hall than high-school-gymnasium-replica Newman Arena).
[Q]I was disappointed that the renovations to the Helen Newman aquatic facilities didn't include reconfiguring the new and old space into a 50m competition pool.[/Q]I'm also a bit surprised that Cornell doesn't have a bigger pool, especially considering the excellent facilities that Yale, for example, has. Of course, the problem with a 50m pool is that it's 25 meters longer than a 25m pool, and so making the change would mean some serious rebuilding, and Helen Newman Hall isn't exactly located in the easiest place for construction, perched over Beebe Lake. Also, my understanding is that the swim teams use Teagle anyway, probably because of its proximity to all the rest of the althetics facilies (weight rooms, coaching offices, parking).
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: April 30, 2004 11:20AM
[Q]Shorts Wrote:
I was disappointed that the renovations to the Helen Newman aquatic facilities didn't include reconfiguring the new and old space into a 50m competition pool.[/Q]
I'm also a bit surprised that Cornell doesn't have a bigger pool, especially considering the excellent facilities that Yale, for example, has. Of course, the problem with a 50m pool is that it's 25 meters longer than a 25m pool, and so making the change would mean some serious rebuilding, and Helen Newman Hall isn't exactly located in the easiest place for construction, perched over Beebe Lake. Also, my understanding is that the swim teams use Teagle anyway, probably because of its proximity to all the rest of the althetics facilies (weight rooms, coaching offices, parking).[/q]
There is no quick fix for the pool at Teagle. To expand the pool in that building to a standard 50Mx25y configuration, you'd have to push the building out east toward Lynah and north. I'm not sure existing space would allow this. Newman would be easier. I've seen the plans for expansion someplace on the web, and a new lap pool is being added on the west side (?) of the existing pool. Although the Newman location is not convenient for the team's dryland and weight training, it seems that with a little tweaking, a larger pool could have been accommodated that would allow for the same activities envisioned for the two pools now planned. It's standard practice for aquatic facilities with 50m pools to stripe them crosswise and thereby provide a lot of 25 yard lanes for simultaneous practices, lap swimming, and lessons, and for large meets. I'd like to think that there was a good reason for configuring Newman this way and that an upgrade to the exhibition pool facilities is someplace on the distant horizon, but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: jeh25 (---.epsy.uconn.edu)
Date: April 30, 2004 04:14PM
[Q]Shorts Wrote:
the backdrop of traditional-looking Vet. school buildings, the trees along tower road, and the top of the Wilson Synchrotron building has a much more college-campus/outdoorsy feel [/q]
One minor nitpick. Those are CALS buildings, not Vet School Buildings.
Stocking Hall houses the best food science program in the world. However, at a time when Rutgers, Ohio State and UC-Davis are throwing money at their facilities or faculty, Cornell chose to renovate Bailey Hall instead....
Wing Hall, with its' infamous Wing Wing, is home to microbiology and Riley-Robb is home of Agricultural and Biological Engineering (and is named after a relative of a certain frequent poster.)
Capt. Pendantry exits stage left....
the backdrop of traditional-looking Vet. school buildings, the trees along tower road, and the top of the Wilson Synchrotron building has a much more college-campus/outdoorsy feel [/q]
One minor nitpick. Those are CALS buildings, not Vet School Buildings.
Stocking Hall houses the best food science program in the world. However, at a time when Rutgers, Ohio State and UC-Davis are throwing money at their facilities or faculty, Cornell chose to renovate Bailey Hall instead....
Wing Hall, with its' infamous Wing Wing, is home to microbiology and Riley-Robb is home of Agricultural and Biological Engineering (and is named after a relative of a certain frequent poster.)
Capt. Pendantry exits stage left....
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Lowell '99 (---.c3-0.avec-ubr13.nyr-avec.ny.cable.r)
Date: April 30, 2004 08:33PM
Dammit, John, you're making me post. Bailey Hall MUST be renovated. Uncomfortable seats, horrible acoustic, virtually ZERO climate control, no back stage space... it blows.
And for what it's worth, a HS friend of mine who was a team manager for Brown's basketball team said that history aside, he thought Cornell had the nicest gym in the Ivy League. The Palestra is probably the best overall, everything considered, but I don't know what the fuss is with Jadwin. Big gaping cavernous space behind one set of stands. Basically, eh, it's a gym.
And for what it's worth, a HS friend of mine who was a team manager for Brown's basketball team said that history aside, he thought Cornell had the nicest gym in the Ivy League. The Palestra is probably the best overall, everything considered, but I don't know what the fuss is with Jadwin. Big gaping cavernous space behind one set of stands. Basically, eh, it's a gym.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Robb (---.184.186.176.ts46v-08.otnc2.ftwrth.tx.charter.co)
Date: April 30, 2004 09:32PM
Now who would that be? 
Unfortunately, I'm going to miss the parade. Apparently, they're going to take a picture of as many "building" family members as they can gather. My great-grandfather Dean Byron Burnett Robb has passed on, but there's a possibility that my 6-month old cousin-once-removed Byron, my father (middle name Burnett), and my Uncle Robb may be there...
Unfortunately, I'm going to miss the parade. Apparently, they're going to take a picture of as many "building" family members as they can gather. My great-grandfather Dean Byron Burnett Robb has passed on, but there's a possibility that my 6-month old cousin-once-removed Byron, my father (middle name Burnett), and my Uncle Robb may be there...
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 30, 2004 09:51PM
[Q]LowellFrank Wrote:
Dammit, John, you're making me post. Bailey Hall MUST be renovated. Uncomfortable seats, horrible acoustic, virtually ZERO climate control, no back stage space... it blows.
And for what it's worth, a HS friend of mine who was a team manager for Brown's basketball team said that history aside, he thought Cornell had the nicest gym in the Ivy League. The Palestra is probably the best overall, everything considered, but I don't know what the fuss is with Jadwin. Big gaping cavernous space behind one set of stands. Basically, eh, it's a gym.[/q]
Cornell's new (newish) basketball facility reminds me of a really nice high school gym. But I'm not sure what a great college basketball gym should have - individual seats?
Jadwin has nice architecture but, you're right, it really is kind of a bunch of bleachers rolled into the middle of a very big building. Of course, with Princeton's record and history, who's complaining? Just as Lynah Rink's best features aren't the physical structure itself.
It's a sign of age when when older alums start thinking - cripes, wasn't Bailey Hall just renovated? And the answer was, yes, sometime back like 30 years ago.
Dammit, John, you're making me post. Bailey Hall MUST be renovated. Uncomfortable seats, horrible acoustic, virtually ZERO climate control, no back stage space... it blows.
And for what it's worth, a HS friend of mine who was a team manager for Brown's basketball team said that history aside, he thought Cornell had the nicest gym in the Ivy League. The Palestra is probably the best overall, everything considered, but I don't know what the fuss is with Jadwin. Big gaping cavernous space behind one set of stands. Basically, eh, it's a gym.[/q]
Cornell's new (newish) basketball facility reminds me of a really nice high school gym. But I'm not sure what a great college basketball gym should have - individual seats?
Jadwin has nice architecture but, you're right, it really is kind of a bunch of bleachers rolled into the middle of a very big building. Of course, with Princeton's record and history, who's complaining? Just as Lynah Rink's best features aren't the physical structure itself.
It's a sign of age when when older alums start thinking - cripes, wasn't Bailey Hall just renovated? And the answer was, yes, sometime back like 30 years ago.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 02, 2004 06:18AM
[Q]Shorts Wrote:
The soccer team currently (at least this past year, probably for the past couple years) plays on Berman field in the "Robert J. Kane Sports Complex". Basically, of the five full-size fields that run along the south side of Tower Road (also including the upper and lower alumni fields), its the one closest to the Vet School. It's got a track around it (as well as assorted track&field facilities next to it, like throwing ranges), and a pretty nice set of bleachers along one side.
For wrestling, the new wrestling-only building is pretty sweet.
I've always thought that I'd rather watch a basketball game in the history-rich Barton Hall than high-school-gymnasium-replica Newman Arena). ([/Q]
Yes, Shorts, that's right. The pep band played for the dedication of the Bob Kane Complex back in the spring of 1998. The pep band likes playing at dedications. Yes those are Ag buildings - I spent PLENTY of time in Riley-Robb having TA'd the same class for three semesters in that building and spent late nights teaching. I love buildings with history to them and that building has history to it. Robb - is this event we're talking about associated with the CALS 100th birthday - any renovations to Riley-Robb planned? I know it was being talked about as on the list pending state money.
I agree with the wrestling center - not overly done in its appropriateness for the sport. I liked the tennis bubble that used to stand in it's place - don't know when it came to be but I think it was around 96 that it ceased to exist when they decided that indoor tennis should be played out by East Hill Plaza and the Equestrian Center. Stupid phys. ed. shuttle van never could get me back for Chemistry from my tennis class in time.
My landlord my junior year, a 50-year resident of Ithaca and very long-time employee of Cornell (now retired) has seen all the athletic facilities come and go. She said that you really couldn't beat Barton for watching a basketball game in. Cornell's last Ivy title came in that building in it's last or next to last season using Barton prior to the Alberding financial affair. She claims she's only missed about 20 home games of football in 50 years so that would give her about 250 games seen at Schoeklkopf. Now that's somebody who win, lose or draw, supports a team.
The soccer team currently (at least this past year, probably for the past couple years) plays on Berman field in the "Robert J. Kane Sports Complex". Basically, of the five full-size fields that run along the south side of Tower Road (also including the upper and lower alumni fields), its the one closest to the Vet School. It's got a track around it (as well as assorted track&field facilities next to it, like throwing ranges), and a pretty nice set of bleachers along one side.
For wrestling, the new wrestling-only building is pretty sweet.
I've always thought that I'd rather watch a basketball game in the history-rich Barton Hall than high-school-gymnasium-replica Newman Arena). ([/Q]
Yes, Shorts, that's right. The pep band played for the dedication of the Bob Kane Complex back in the spring of 1998. The pep band likes playing at dedications. Yes those are Ag buildings - I spent PLENTY of time in Riley-Robb having TA'd the same class for three semesters in that building and spent late nights teaching. I love buildings with history to them and that building has history to it. Robb - is this event we're talking about associated with the CALS 100th birthday - any renovations to Riley-Robb planned? I know it was being talked about as on the list pending state money.
I agree with the wrestling center - not overly done in its appropriateness for the sport. I liked the tennis bubble that used to stand in it's place - don't know when it came to be but I think it was around 96 that it ceased to exist when they decided that indoor tennis should be played out by East Hill Plaza and the Equestrian Center. Stupid phys. ed. shuttle van never could get me back for Chemistry from my tennis class in time.
My landlord my junior year, a 50-year resident of Ithaca and very long-time employee of Cornell (now retired) has seen all the athletic facilities come and go. She said that you really couldn't beat Barton for watching a basketball game in. Cornell's last Ivy title came in that building in it's last or next to last season using Barton prior to the Alberding financial affair. She claims she's only missed about 20 home games of football in 50 years so that would give her about 250 games seen at Schoeklkopf. Now that's somebody who win, lose or draw, supports a team.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2004 06:28AM by Tom Pasniewski 98.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 02, 2004 06:22AM
[Q]jeh25 Wrote:
Shorts Wrote:
the backdrop of traditional-looking Vet. school buildings, the trees along tower road, and the top of the Wilson Synchrotron building has a much more college-campus/outdoorsy feel [/Q]
One minor nitpick. Those are CALS buildings, not Vet School Buildings.
Stocking Hall houses the best food science program in the world. However, at a time when Rutgers, Ohio State and UC-Davis are throwing money at their facilities or faculty, Cornell chose to renovate Bailey Hall instead....
Wing Hall, with its' infamous Wing Wing, is home to microbiology and Riley-Robb is home of Agricultural and Biological Engineering (and is named after a relative of a certain frequent poster.)
Capt. Pendantry exits stage left....
[/q]
This post really takes me back. I want some Dairy Bar ice cream. A food science class was amongst the best I took at Cornell (I'm an Aggie but not the Texas kind). Yes, the Wing Wing and I did not know that Robb was the Robb in Riley-Robb. Thanks for your family support to a great building. I have many memories from inside there teaching students the ways of computing which became outdated as soon as the class ended
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 02, 2004 06:26AM
Well, I'll be speaking at length with the man who 'owns' Bailey Hall - Professor Maas as he addresses the Cornell Club of Boston today. I plan to pose the question in the Q and A session rather than directly to him so all can see how he feels about Bailey Hall. Seriously, I knew the building manager during my time there - Professor Maas 'owns' that building. Building mangers are good people to know.
And since marching band is a sport at Cornell, let me just say that the best damn marching band facilities in the Ivy League belong to Cornell especially with the renovations that are starting next week. Take that scatter-brain bands.
And since marching band is a sport at Cornell, let me just say that the best damn marching band facilities in the Ivy League belong to Cornell especially with the renovations that are starting next week. Take that scatter-brain bands.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2004 12:25PM
[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
Well, I'll be speaking at length with the man who 'owns' Bailey Hall - Professor Maas as he addresses the Cornell Club of Boston today. I plan to pose the question in the Q and A session rather than directly to him so all can see how he feels about Bailey Hall. Seriously, I knew the building manager during my time there - Professor Maas 'owns' that building. Building mangers are good people to know.
And since marching band is a sport at Cornell, let me just say that the best damn marching band facilities in the Ivy League belong to Cornell especially with the renovations that are starting next week. Take that scatter-brain bands.[/q]
Cornell has the *only* marching band in the Ivy League. All the rest of small groups of musicians performing minimalist satire (set to music) that no one could understand even if they could hear the PA announcer. If the rest of your league doesn't take marching bands seriously, then you should be the one more or less serious band. Just as at Stanford, when the rest of the Pac 8, Pac 10, Pac 12, whatever it's up to now, considers marching bands to be dead serious, then you should be the opposite.
Also: Any band is better than none when it shows up for a sporting event. For instance Cornell's band at the Princeton lacrosse game. You don't think the Tiger marching-around band will show up next year in Ithaca?
Well, I'll be speaking at length with the man who 'owns' Bailey Hall - Professor Maas as he addresses the Cornell Club of Boston today. I plan to pose the question in the Q and A session rather than directly to him so all can see how he feels about Bailey Hall. Seriously, I knew the building manager during my time there - Professor Maas 'owns' that building. Building mangers are good people to know.
And since marching band is a sport at Cornell, let me just say that the best damn marching band facilities in the Ivy League belong to Cornell especially with the renovations that are starting next week. Take that scatter-brain bands.[/q]
Cornell has the *only* marching band in the Ivy League. All the rest of small groups of musicians performing minimalist satire (set to music) that no one could understand even if they could hear the PA announcer. If the rest of your league doesn't take marching bands seriously, then you should be the one more or less serious band. Just as at Stanford, when the rest of the Pac 8, Pac 10, Pac 12, whatever it's up to now, considers marching bands to be dead serious, then you should be the opposite.
Also: Any band is better than none when it shows up for a sporting event. For instance Cornell's band at the Princeton lacrosse game. You don't think the Tiger marching-around band will show up next year in Ithaca?
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Lowell '99 (---.mskcc.org)
Date: May 02, 2004 02:54PM
[Q]You don't think the Tiger marching-around band will show up next year in Ithaca? [/Q]
Nope. If they didn't go to their own home contest, there's no way they'd go to Ithaca for lacrosse. I haven't seen them travel for hockey in 9 years. They just go for basketball and football. Rumor has it they missed last Saturday's game for a (cough, hack, smirk) wedding.
Nope. If they didn't go to their own home contest, there's no way they'd go to Ithaca for lacrosse. I haven't seen them travel for hockey in 9 years. They just go for basketball and football. Rumor has it they missed last Saturday's game for a (cough, hack, smirk) wedding.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2004 03:56PM
[Q]LowellFrank Wrote:
You don't think the Tiger marching-around band will show up next year in Ithaca? [/Q]
Nope. If they didn't go to their own home contest, there's no way they'd go to Ithaca for lacrosse. I haven't seen them travel for hockey in 9 years. They just go for basketball and football. Rumor has it they missed last Saturday's game for a (cough, hack, smirk) wedding.[/q]
... and the month before, the band played softly outside the Princeton chapel at the baby's christening.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: RichH (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: May 03, 2004 12:16AM
[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
I agree with the wrestling center - not overly done in its appropriateness for the sport.[/q]
With all due respect to the current student-athletes now benefiting from the new center, I disagree. The facilities that existed prior to the new wrestling palace were not insufficient. Newman Arena was still relatively new, there had been a major expansion to training facilities in the field house, and nothing associated with the wrestling program had been in a state of disrepair or had seemed inadequate to compete at a high level.
The track and field facilities of the Kane complex were desperately needed; before the Kane complex existed, the outdoor track teams were using Ithaca College's facilities. The Reis Tennis Center was definitely a "need" despite its remote location to the center of campus. I just didn't see having the nation's first wrestling-only center as a "need" when 1) perfectly adequate facilities existed and 2) other facilities are still in need of upgrades or replacements...the swimming and diving facilities first and foremost (as discussed elsewhere on this forum). Sure, it's a great recruiting tool for one particular sport that Cornell is already strong in, and that is a plus and something to be proud of...but looking at the big picture for the good of CU Athletics, I think money could've been more wisely spent elsewhere, rather than making sure we have a new building with plasma monitors in the opulent lobby. I do realize that initial funding was made by a wrestling alumnus, but that doesn't change my overall opinion of the financial drive details.
I guess having a former wrestling coach in charge helps. I doubt there was a lot of Big Red Tape to deal with for anything they wanted. I wonder what that opulent lobby is named, anyway...
I agree with the wrestling center - not overly done in its appropriateness for the sport.[/q]
With all due respect to the current student-athletes now benefiting from the new center, I disagree. The facilities that existed prior to the new wrestling palace were not insufficient. Newman Arena was still relatively new, there had been a major expansion to training facilities in the field house, and nothing associated with the wrestling program had been in a state of disrepair or had seemed inadequate to compete at a high level.
The track and field facilities of the Kane complex were desperately needed; before the Kane complex existed, the outdoor track teams were using Ithaca College's facilities. The Reis Tennis Center was definitely a "need" despite its remote location to the center of campus. I just didn't see having the nation's first wrestling-only center as a "need" when 1) perfectly adequate facilities existed and 2) other facilities are still in need of upgrades or replacements...the swimming and diving facilities first and foremost (as discussed elsewhere on this forum). Sure, it's a great recruiting tool for one particular sport that Cornell is already strong in, and that is a plus and something to be proud of...but looking at the big picture for the good of CU Athletics, I think money could've been more wisely spent elsewhere, rather than making sure we have a new building with plasma monitors in the opulent lobby. I do realize that initial funding was made by a wrestling alumnus, but that doesn't change my overall opinion of the financial drive details.
I guess having a former wrestling coach in charge helps. I doubt there was a lot of Big Red Tape to deal with for anything they wanted. I wonder what that opulent lobby is named, anyway...
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 03, 2004 12:38AM
I disagree with your disagreeing (about your thinking maybe there were better priorities than a new wrestling facility).
Think of the money for the wrestling complex as seed money for a better Cornell. An alumnus / wrestler did a good dead for the sport. If it wasn't for the wrestling complex, was he instead going to give the same amount to the general fund? Or would it just have stayed with him?
Here's what's going to happen (I hope):
- They money came in, the wrestlers got a better place to wrestle
- The wrestlers (already good), got a lot better, enough to bring Cornell to national prominence.
- That didn't go unnoticed elsewhere among Cornell's graduated sporting alums.
- Next year, some lacrosse alum sitting on the Cisco shares he cashed out in sping 2000, decides the lacrosse team needs the same treatment, only with a retractable or inflatable dome. (Like Princeton's Class of 1952 field, only the field and spectators are not affected by rain or snow.) Come 2007, Cornell reels off the first of five straight NCAA titles.
- Ken Dryden, not to be outdone, rallies funds for a better Lynah (and also for a 3,000-foot expansion of Tompkins County airport, allowing non-stop Vancouver-Ithaca flights for Cornell's newest hockey pipeline).
- The Cornellian widow of a now-departed, well-heeled jock, decides that the won-loss disparity between Cornell's men's/women's teams needs to be addressed vis-a-vis the success of Pricneton's and Harvard's men's/women's teams, and plows funds into women's athletics at Cornell. Cornell beat's Princeton for the women's lax title and Harvard for the hockey title.
- A dozen other alumns (three of them on the Forbes 400), noticing the increased excellence in sports that comes with better buildings and endowed chairs for coaches, decides to - gasp - try the same thing over on the academic side of Cornell. Cornell Class of 2012 has a record number of applicants coming on the heels of Cornell's second place showing, behind Amherst, in Newsweek's survey of the best American colleges.
Think of the money for the wrestling complex as seed money for a better Cornell. An alumnus / wrestler did a good dead for the sport. If it wasn't for the wrestling complex, was he instead going to give the same amount to the general fund? Or would it just have stayed with him?
Here's what's going to happen (I hope):
- They money came in, the wrestlers got a better place to wrestle
- The wrestlers (already good), got a lot better, enough to bring Cornell to national prominence.
- That didn't go unnoticed elsewhere among Cornell's graduated sporting alums.
- Next year, some lacrosse alum sitting on the Cisco shares he cashed out in sping 2000, decides the lacrosse team needs the same treatment, only with a retractable or inflatable dome. (Like Princeton's Class of 1952 field, only the field and spectators are not affected by rain or snow.) Come 2007, Cornell reels off the first of five straight NCAA titles.
- Ken Dryden, not to be outdone, rallies funds for a better Lynah (and also for a 3,000-foot expansion of Tompkins County airport, allowing non-stop Vancouver-Ithaca flights for Cornell's newest hockey pipeline).
- The Cornellian widow of a now-departed, well-heeled jock, decides that the won-loss disparity between Cornell's men's/women's teams needs to be addressed vis-a-vis the success of Pricneton's and Harvard's men's/women's teams, and plows funds into women's athletics at Cornell. Cornell beat's Princeton for the women's lax title and Harvard for the hockey title.
- A dozen other alumns (three of them on the Forbes 400), noticing the increased excellence in sports that comes with better buildings and endowed chairs for coaches, decides to - gasp - try the same thing over on the academic side of Cornell. Cornell Class of 2012 has a record number of applicants coming on the heels of Cornell's second place showing, behind Amherst, in Newsweek's survey of the best American colleges.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2004 03:13AM by billhoward.
The Wrestling Center
Posted by: Chris '03 (---.cust.uslec.net)
Date: May 03, 2004 09:11AM
What bugs me the most about the wrestling center is that apparently it's not even adequate to host more than one visiting school. Anything larger than a duel match and it's right back over to the field house. Why build a brand new, state of the art, first of its kind, best sound system on campus (?!), plasma screens, facility when it doesn't even have enough locker rooms or space to host even two visiting schools?! Would it have killed them to pass on the luxuries to make the facility functional for all the wrestling program's needs?
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: May 03, 2004 09:43AM
One addendum about Bailey: Musicians regard the building as a treasure acoustically. The problem is that good acoustics for music - with some reverb - aren't good for speaking, which requires deader acoustics for clarity. As I understand it, part of the renovation will address this problem by allowing the sound to be fine-tuned for the type of event scheduled, making the space better suited for a wide range of events.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Shorts (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: May 03, 2004 10:07AM
There may be some musicians who consider Bailey to be a treasure (I'm guessing perhaps members of the orchestra), but I know of quite a few who would much rather have the treasures out of a red box with a leprechaun on the front. At times when the seats are not filled, all those un-padded seat backs create some echoes that are downright funky. Percussion, in particular, is amplified well out of proportion. As a concrete example, the marching band for the past two years has done recordings in one of the rehearsal rooms in Lincoln Hall, because it just sounds so much better than an empty Bailey.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Lowell '99 (---.c3-0.avec-ubr13.nyr-avec.ny.cable.r)
Date: May 03, 2004 02:51PM
Perhaps times have changed, but I think that's incorrect. I don't know a single person who considers Bailey's acoustics good. That's one of the reasons the new Lincoln Hall had a rehearsal room built into it. As someone who played in Bailey in different ensembles on many, many different occasions, I'm fairly confident saying it bloweth.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 03, 2004 05:30PM
Well if there's one thing I learned is that for Professor Maas' sake, the door to the men's room in Bailey, when completed, should be inpenetrable to all say, wireless mike signals. Some of you have heard that story. For those not on campus (and for those who are, correct me if I'm wrong), Bailey was last used at Reunion last year, closed and renovations only began last week.
On the topic of money to the wrestling center, I at first (several years ago) took Rich's stand in that we don't need a building just for wrestling. Bill makes a good argument for how money builds a building which just keeps on building. As a fundraiser, the best thing to do is to tell people that you can do whatever you want with your money in giving it to Cornell and telling them the more they give, the more Cornell will listen to their stipulations.
Cornell is also running short on land as we see athletic facilities move farther north and farther east and buildings replacing other buildings. Your pockets can be as deep as you want but $1 billion won't get you the right to put a building where the clock tower is IMHO.
On the topic of money to the wrestling center, I at first (several years ago) took Rich's stand in that we don't need a building just for wrestling. Bill makes a good argument for how money builds a building which just keeps on building. As a fundraiser, the best thing to do is to tell people that you can do whatever you want with your money in giving it to Cornell and telling them the more they give, the more Cornell will listen to their stipulations.
Cornell is also running short on land as we see athletic facilities move farther north and farther east and buildings replacing other buildings. Your pockets can be as deep as you want but $1 billion won't get you the right to put a building where the clock tower is IMHO.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: RichH (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: May 03, 2004 05:31PM
As yet another musician on this board, I'll agree with those who have said that Bailey is quite funky acoustically. I played in various groups during my 4 years, and I really didn't understand what was good/bad about it until I was able to take in Wind Ensemble concerts as an alumnus and an audience member. Certain ranges and timbres resonate wonderfully (midrange of tenor trombones), while others are simply eaten up (clarinets, for example). The effect is a striking unbalance, even within wind sections and percussion. Here's hoping the redesign team has an acoustic engineer on board.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Micaela (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 03, 2004 05:37PM
[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:
Princeton, Harvard, and Brown probably have the best facilities for swimming with modern, 50m pools. Cornell's 6-lane, 25 yard pool is the smallest. [/q]
I've been told that Teagle's pool is called "the snake pit" by other swimmers/divers. As a former diver, I would definitely rank it low on my list of aquatic facilities.
Princeton, Harvard, and Brown probably have the best facilities for swimming with modern, 50m pools. Cornell's 6-lane, 25 yard pool is the smallest. [/q]
I've been told that Teagle's pool is called "the snake pit" by other swimmers/divers. As a former diver, I would definitely rank it low on my list of aquatic facilities.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Micaela (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 03, 2004 05:54PM
[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:
One addendum about Bailey: Musicians regard the building as a treasure acoustically. [/q]
If by "musicians" you mean "sadists who enjoy the challenge of playing into the accoustic equivalent of a wet sock." Trying to make sounds short and crisp is darn near impossible - a task already difficult on wind instruments. Add in the brass/woodwind balance issues and several dead spots on stage, and you have a performance space that desperately needs revamping.
I've performed in a couple "flexible" concert halls that can adjust sound dampening to meet the ensemble/audience needs - they can be awesome. Let's hope they get Bailey right.
One addendum about Bailey: Musicians regard the building as a treasure acoustically. [/q]
If by "musicians" you mean "sadists who enjoy the challenge of playing into the accoustic equivalent of a wet sock." Trying to make sounds short and crisp is darn near impossible - a task already difficult on wind instruments. Add in the brass/woodwind balance issues and several dead spots on stage, and you have a performance space that desperately needs revamping.
I've performed in a couple "flexible" concert halls that can adjust sound dampening to meet the ensemble/audience needs - they can be awesome. Let's hope they get Bailey right.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: May 03, 2004 06:22PM
[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
Cornell is also running short on land as we see athletic facilities move farther north and farther east and buildings replacing other buildings. Your pockets can be as deep as you want but $1 billion won't get you the right to put a building where the clock tower is IMHO.[/q]
You got that right. We're in the middle of nowhere geographically and still we're running out of space. Ezra Cornell should have done a better job anticipating the internal combustion engine.
There is something to be said for 12-story (okay, 6-story) rather than 3-story buildings to make the most of land.
Cornell is getting to the point where for athletics we're going to have to demolish then build anew.
I wonder if in our lifetime Schoellkopf will give way to a more compact facility?
Cornell is also running short on land as we see athletic facilities move farther north and farther east and buildings replacing other buildings. Your pockets can be as deep as you want but $1 billion won't get you the right to put a building where the clock tower is IMHO.[/q]
You got that right. We're in the middle of nowhere geographically and still we're running out of space. Ezra Cornell should have done a better job anticipating the internal combustion engine.
There is something to be said for 12-story (okay, 6-story) rather than 3-story buildings to make the most of land.
Cornell is getting to the point where for athletics we're going to have to demolish then build anew.
I wonder if in our lifetime Schoellkopf will give way to a more compact facility?
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: May 03, 2004 06:29PM
[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
On the topic of money to the wrestling center, I at first (several years ago) took Rich's stand in that we don't need a building just for wrestling. Bill makes a good argument for how money builds a building which just keeps on building. As a fundraiser, the best thing to do is to tell people that you can do whatever you want with your money in giving it to Cornell and telling them the more they give, the more Cornell will listen to their stipulations.[/q]
A good donor gives money for ...
a) the building and the hopefully the building done right (wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.)
b) furnishing the building
c) maintaining the building (like mopping up the rust spots under Uris Hall's overhang the first 20 years before it took on the purplish oxidized patina that was supposed to show up in about 3 years (had Ithaca had the pollution the architect was probably counting on)
... especially if it's adds not replaces a building on campus.
On the topic of money to the wrestling center, I at first (several years ago) took Rich's stand in that we don't need a building just for wrestling. Bill makes a good argument for how money builds a building which just keeps on building. As a fundraiser, the best thing to do is to tell people that you can do whatever you want with your money in giving it to Cornell and telling them the more they give, the more Cornell will listen to their stipulations.[/q]
A good donor gives money for ...
a) the building and the hopefully the building done right (wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.)
b) furnishing the building
c) maintaining the building (like mopping up the rust spots under Uris Hall's overhang the first 20 years before it took on the purplish oxidized patina that was supposed to show up in about 3 years (had Ithaca had the pollution the architect was probably counting on)
... especially if it's adds not replaces a building on campus.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Shorts (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: May 04, 2004 12:31AM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/q]It's more than just a legend. As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) [ezra.cornell.edu][q]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall. When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned. Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/q]
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/q]It's more than just a legend. As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) [ezra.cornell.edu][q]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall. When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned. Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/q]
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Ben Rocky '04 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: May 04, 2004 02:26AM
Booo Hunter! 'Nuff said.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 04, 2004 08:12AM
[Q]Shorts Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/Q]
It's more than just a legend. As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) [ezra.cornell.edu]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall. When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned. Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/Q]
[/q]
Which cycles back to a point I made, or think I made, in reference to the wrestling facility and concerns that it's not big enough, not locker-roomed ennough, etcetera: If you're going to give money (or use Cornell money) to build a building, do it right. Two generations (going on three if you were prolific breeders) knows only the angled fortress wall of the campus store when you step out from the Straight. Compare that (if it's possible) to the construction of Lynah in the 1950s, when it could easily have been made a 2,000- or 2,500 seat arena.
I suppose Martha van would be a better example of needing to do the building right the first time.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: May 04, 2004 10:42AM
[Q]Micaela Wrote:
ninian '72 Wrote:
One addendum about Bailey: Musicians regard the building as a treasure acoustically. [/Q]
If by "musicians" you mean "sadists who enjoy the challenge of playing into the accoustic equivalent of a wet sock." Trying to make sounds short and crisp is darn near impossible - a task already difficult on wind instruments. Add in the brass/woodwind balance issues and several dead spots on stage, and you have a performance space that desperately needs revamping.
I've performed in a couple "flexible" concert halls that can adjust sound dampening to meet the ensemble/audience needs - they can be awesome. Let's hope they get Bailey right.[/q]
This is getting way OT for a hockey forum, but I seem to have touched a nerve with wind and percussion players. String players in my day loved the place, which created a warm, reverberant sound. Judging from the posts here, this apparently is not what wind players want. A lot of what happens acoustically in a hall also has to do with placement on the stage, so I can understand that musicians further back on the stage would have a different experience. I've heard some BRB recordings where the percussion DOES overwhelm almost everyone else. I wondered whether these guys thought they were outside or what, but if the percussion was in the customary place at the back of the stage, I can understand now why this might have happened.
FWIW, the original Bailey stage design was somewhat different, and the acoustical properties of the stage today are probably not consistent with what originally existed or what was intended. Originally there was a large organ installed at the rear of the stage which was used for regular Sunday performances for many years. There was some sort of catastrophic, storm-related roof failure in the early 60's that resulted in some massive and unrepairable water damage to the organ. It was removed, and the organ chest was paneled over creating the current acoustical environment.
If the new space at Lincoln is as good as posters say, the current generation of Cornell musicians is incredibly fortunate. I hope they appreciate what they have.
In addition to any acoustical tuning, I hope the Bailey renovation results in trashing that funky chandelier, which looks like it was created by some formica-loving designer who drove an Edsel.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: Tom Pasniewski 98 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 04, 2004 12:10PM
[Q]Shorts Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/Q]
It's more than just a legend. As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) [ezra.cornell.edu]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall. When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned. Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/Q]
[/q]
Well than how is it that we managed to put a pit much deeper into the ground not more than 250 feet away from the store in the Kroch Library, which early in my days in high school I did see the pit and I feel sorry for those who had to live with the dynamite blasts that accompanied building the building. Different rock composition? More money? I mean we've dug from England to France, we have the technology to remove 10 feet more of earth. Kroch is not noticeable save for the few skylights that pop up surrounded by appropriate shrubbery and preserves the view from A.D. White's house down to Old Stone Row and Ithaca below.
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: May 04, 2004 01:19PM
[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
Shorts Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/Q]
It's more than just a legend. As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) [ezra.cornell.edu]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall. When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned. Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/Q]
[/Q]
Well than how is it that we managed to put a pit much deeper into the ground not more than 250 feet away from the store in the Kroch Library, which early in my days in high school I did see the pit and I feel sorry for those who had to live with the dynamite blasts that accompanied building the building. Different rock composition? More money? I mean we've dug from England to France, we have the technology to remove 10 feet more of earth. Kroch is not noticeable save for the few skylights that pop up surrounded by appropriate shrubbery and preserves the view from A.D. White's house down to Old Stone Row and Ithaca below.[/q]
Is it just possible that the University learned from the Campus Store mistake in site preparation for future buildings?Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)Date: May 04, 2004 01:21PM
Maybe the Campus Store didn't get dug deep enough because somebody didn't dig deep enough into the bank account. Maybe it was a decision by committee, "I think we can all learn to live with that ... agreed? ... now what's next on the agenda?"
The view looking *down* from Day Hall isn't all that bad.Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)Date: May 04, 2004 01:30PM
[Q][Is it just possible that the University learned from the Campus Store mistake in site preparation for future buildings? It's also possible that they were concerned about the potential impact of blasting in close proximity to two old brick buildings. [/q]
If Cornell gained wisdom from all its building mistakes, this would truly be the epicenter of intelligence of the Ivy League. (What was JFK's quip: The most intelligence in one place since Albert Einstein dined alone.)
The one mistake that gets me most was building North Campus with mostly doubles in the suites, not singles. Most people grow up with single not double rooms at home. I know you can bond sharing your double with a roommate but I think you can bond adequately with a suitemate who his his or her own single, too. I also thought, and on this I could be way wrong, that the common areas weren't getting that much use [early on, at least] because they felt too common and not enough like the living room for the floor.
Wasn't it lacrosse goalie Dan Mackesey's father who was sort of in charge of the design of North Campus? See, we are back on topic to sports (barely).Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)Date: May 04, 2004 02:04PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
If Cornell gained wisdom from all its building mistakes, this would truly be the epicenter of intelligence of the Ivy League. (What was JFK's quip: The most intelligence in one place since Albert Einstein dined alone.)[/q]
I think it was Thomas Jefferson, not Einstein, but we get the idea.Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.ubr02a.nanarb01.mi.hfc.comcastbusine)Date: May 05, 2004 10:08PM
Boardman Hall for Olin Library: great tragedy and the first of many. Of course, "historically-sensitive renovation" wasn't in the cards at that time. (Just be glad some bright Robert Moses-type didn't decided to drive a highway through campus in the 50s. Nobody would've lifted a finger, most likely.) Just think of the architectural monstrosities that have been visited on the campus: Uris Hall, Olin Library, Clark Hall, Tjaden's renovation (5 floors in a 4 floor buidling--what were they thinking?), Ives Hall, Bradfield, etc.., etc., etc.. (Successes? Lincoln renovation, Snee Hall, Rhodes (maybe--if it weren't so damn hot), Sage (another controversy).) As the past rejected and current approved designs for the new architecture buildings show, Cornell has no intention of redressing past mistakes.
I have every confidence that the administration will keep approving ugly, ugly buildings well into mid-century.Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: ugarte (---.ny325.east.verizon.net)Date: May 05, 2004 11:10PM
[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:
(Successes? ... Sage (another controversy).)[/q]Controversy is right. I hate the new Sage. I lived in Sage as a soph - what a great building. I was pissed when they made everyone move after the year to turn it into Akwe:kon (maybe the Language House - it's been a while).
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quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writingRe: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.no.no.cox.net)Date: May 06, 2004 07:32AM
[Q]ugarte Wrote:
Scersk '97 Wrote:
(Successes? ... Sage (another controversy).)[/Q]
Controversy is right. I hate the new Sage. I lived in Sage as a soph - what a great building. I was pissed when they made everyone move after the year to turn it into Akwe:kon (maybe the Language House - it's been a while).[/q]
I'm still amazed they got away with the Sage rennovation: prop up the walls, gut the inside, and put a completely different building inside the old shell.
Of course, in my day, Sage was actually the Language House for a year. (I lived in Low Rise 9 before it became "everybody's bitch" as someone observed in the late 90s.)
Re: [OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)Date: May 06, 2004 11:36AM
Found it:
[victorious.alumni.cornell.edu]
Looks as if the footprint of Helen Newman, even including the new space, wouldn't accommodate a 50m pool, but, as far as I can tell, there is still some room to expand westward. Given the layout of the 25y pools, the building's already wide enough. This part of the building is devoted solely to the natatorium, so it's not as if they're constrained by having to shoehorn the aquatic section around other facilities. Very odd.
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