[ot] bertuzzi jumps moore-> hospital *update on moore*

[sports.yahoo.com]
waiting for the highlights, think i should wait until morning.
just curious what people think.

Moore taken to hospital after being jumped on ice by Bertuzzi


March 9, 2004
VANCOUVER, British Columbia (AP) -- Colorado forward Steve Moore was taken off the ice on a stretcher after being jumped from behind by Vancouver forward Todd Bertuzzi midway through the third period of a game the Avalanche led 8-2.

Moore delivered the hit last month that knocked Canucks captain Markus Naslund out for three games with a concussion.

Bertuzzi sought revenge when he punched Moore in the head from behind while skating at center ice. Bertuzzi jumped on Moore's back and drove him face first into the ice, knocking him unconscious.

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Trainers from both teams rushed to Moore's side while players from both teams squared off for more fights. Moore was motionless on the ice with a puddle of blood pouring onto the ice around him.

Avalanche officials said Moore was conscious as he was taken from the arena to a hospital.

After a 10-minute delay, during which Colorado coach Tony Granato tried to get at the Canucks bench and screamed at Vancouver coach Marc Crawford, Moore was strapped onto a stretcher and wheeled out.

Moore, a 25-year-old checking center, fought Matt Cooke early in the first period and scored a goal. He has five goals and seven assists in 56 games with Colorado this season.

Bertuzzi was assessed a match penalty for attempting to injure.

Moore wasn't penalized for the Feb. 16 hit on Naslund. At the time, Crawford said it was ``a cheap shot by a young kid on a captain, the leading scorer in the league.''

[sports.espn.go.com]

Less than two hours after the final horn, the NHL suspended Bertuzzi, who was given a match penalty for intent to injure, indefinitely -- without pay. There will be a hearing Wednesday morning at the league's office in Toronto.

Good. Retaliation or not, this is bullshit. I hope the suspension is the whole season or more.

Did I mention I like college hockey much better?

I watched most of the game, other than the first five and last five minutes. As often happens, once one team gets a big lead it turns into goonsville. Directv was picking up the Vancouver feed, and the Canucks were going after Moore all night, hitting him when he was not even near the puck. Other than an early fighting penalty with Matt Cooke, he never retaliated to the hits. This was all in retaliation for a hit earlier on the season by Moore on Naslund, on which there was no penalty. The announcers emphasized the "Moore as a target" theme often, describing hits which were off camera. They must've gone out of their way to hit him about 15 times before the Bertuzzi incident. The refs apparently felt that they couldn't call everything, as they already had many more Canuck penalties than Colorado. I don't agree with that logic, and it certainly let things get way out of hand. Brad May tried to goad Aebischer into a fight twice, going out of his way to push Aebischer after May's first goal (no penalty) and getting in his face after the second (10 minute misconduct). Even Peter Worrell, the Avs resident goon, tried to turn the other cheek in the 2nd and 3rd periods when goaded by Brookbank, who didn't even have enough sense to stop after the Moore incident, one time getting 4 minutes by himself trying to start something with Worrell. I see from the box score that eventually the two got into it in the last few minutes. All and all it was pretty despicable, and at a minimum I'd suspend Bertuzzi for 15 games and Crawford for 10 to get the message across.

So from what you're saying. Moore was a target, the Refs knew this, and decided to stop calling penalties? What kind of retarded logic is this? If I was in charge, I'd start handing out game DQs right there. A few of those, and the game gets back in hand.

Again, we don't need this shit. Take Bertuzzi out for the season, I say. And watch this not happen again.

This was worse than McSorley's stick chop on Brashear. (I still contend that all McS was trying to do was goad Brashear into a fight.)

It was gross to watch and I hope Moore is OK.

The argument could be made that this wouldn't have happened had the NHL done something about Moore's hit on Naslund. Suspensions in the NHL are a joke... Rob Ray throws a stick on the ice and gets 7 games. Jeremy Roenick spits at the ref, swears at him all game, and throws a water bottle directly at the ref, and gets one game. Mats Sundin throws something into the stands and gets one game. Until the NHL starts applying suspensions fairly and evenly, this sick retribution will continue.

Based on your description of the game Jeff, it's clear that the coach needs to carry a lot of the blame for the incident since he obviously was endorsing the head-hunting. If I were running the league office I'd toss both Bertuzzi and Crawford for the rest of the season plus playoffs as a bare minimum. Actually, I'd want to suspend Crawford through the end of the season and Bertuzzi for a calendar year. This kind of crap is ridiculous.

McSorley received a one year suspension for the hit on Brashear. They NHL will be sending a bad message if Bertuzzi receives any less.

Bertuzzi should be shot in the kneecap. His suspension should last the length of his rehab. Plus 10 games.

Hopefully there will actually be a season to suspend him for next year...

[sports.yahoo.com]

Moore has fractured neck; police investigating


March 9, 2004
VANCOUVER, British Columbia (AP) -- Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore will miss the rest of the season with a fractured neck after a hit by Vancouver's Todd Bertuzzi that prompted a police investigation.

Moore also sustained a concussion and deep facial cuts, the Avalanche said Tuesday. He will remain hospitalized in Vancouver indefinitely, Colorado trainer Pat Karns said.

Bertuzzi has been suspended indefinitely pending a hearing at the NHL office in Toronto on Wednesday.

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Moore was slugged in the side of the head by Bertuzzi late in Monday night's game, a 9-2 Colorado victory. Bertuzzi struck him from behind and drove his head into the ice. Moore landed face-first -- with Bertuzzi on top of him -- and lay in a pool of blood for several minutes before he was removed on a stretcher.

B.C. Solicitor General Rich Coleman and Vancouver police said Tuesday a preliminary investigation has begun.

This will be the second time in recent years Vancouver police have become involved in an on-ice hit at an NHL game. Former NHL tough guy Marty McSorley was charged for hitting then-Vancouver Canuck Donald Brashear with his stick in February 2000.

The Avalanche said that when Moore's condition improves, he will be transferred to Craig Hospital in Denver and evaluated by neurosurgeons.

``Steve knows he has the support of the entire Avalanche family and hockey fans throughout the world, and we hope that he recovers as soon as possible,'' Avalanche president and general manager Pierre Lacroix said.

Vancouver general manager Brian Burke said Bertuzzi was ``too distraught'' to attend Tuesday's news conference, but the Canucks right wing tried to contact Moore at the hospital.

``That to me shows the sincerity more than any statement that we could issue,'' Burke said.

``He's remorseful, and relieved that Mr. Moore's injuries at this point appear, that a full recovery should be possible,'' Burke added.

The general manager said he'll attend the NHL hearing with Bertuzzi.

Bertuzzi, a 6-foot-3, 235-pounder, was an All-Star last season when he was fifth in the league in scoring. This year, he was an All-Star again and has 60 points, 23rd in the league.

Moore is a checking forward on a team stacked with stars. The rookie center has four goals and seven assists this season.

McSorley, while with the Boston Bruins, drew a one-year suspension for using his stick to hit Brashear on the side of the head. Brashear was knocked unconscious and missed 20 games with a concussion.

McSorley was tried in court and received a conditional sentence for assault with a weapon, but his one-year suspension from the NHL ended his 17-year career.


Updated

Myself personnaly i would say that the fractured neck was a result of the whole colorado team jumping on top of Bertuzzi and Moore after they went down. That is just my look on things, dont get me wrong what Bertuzzi did wasnt right but you cant really blame him for the breaking of the guys neck. What i would like to know is what Moore did to prevok Bertuzzi to go balistic in the first place, i know the game before was a huge factor but he must have done something to get Bertuzzi ticked. Bertuzzi is usually a pretty clean hockey player so i dont know

[www.canoe.ca]


VANCOUVER (CP) -- The 13 stitches etched across Markus Naslund's forehead and nose are an ugly reminder of the lack of respect the Canucks captain says some NHL players show for each other.

 Naslund, who suffered the first concussion of his career, will be out of action for one to two weeks after being clobbered by Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche in a game Monday in Denver.

 The hit itself wasn't dirty, Naslund said. But what bothered the Canucks star is the attitude Moore demonstrated.

 "He took advantage of me being in a vulnerable position and he looked to hit me there," Naslund said Wednesday. "You need to finish your hits but there is no reason to go after the head. I don't think there's a reason to attempt to injury players.

 "You look at the veteran players who have been around, you listen to them, they feel a lot of young guys coming in have lost a little bit of respect for the game."

 Naslund, runner-up as the NHL's most valuable player last season, was leading the league in scoring with 30 goals and 38 assists when he was hurt.

 He said he has no problem with the game being physical. But there is a limit, he suggested.

 "Guys are bigger and stronger and it's a physical game," he said. "It's important to have that respect. Hit for cause but don't go out and try and hurt guys."

 Moore caught Naslund in a open-ice collision during the second period of Vancouver's 1-0 win over the Avalanche.

 On the play, Naslund was stretching for a loose puck. The six-foot-one, 210-pound Moore swerved into the smaller, lighter Naslund at high speed, smashing him with his shoulder and arm. Some television replays indicated Moore might have caught Naslund with his elbow.

 Moore was not penalized on the play and the league opted not to take any action.

 Naslund spent Monday night in hospital in Denver and returned to Vancouver on Tuesday.

 The hit had several Canuck players talking about retaliation when the two teams meet against March 3 in Denver. Forward Brad May has already said there's a bounty on Moore's head.

 Naslund said he'd rather the Canucks concentrate on trying to catch the Avs for first place in the Northwest Division.

 "I think there's more important things than to go after a guy like that," he said.

 "He's not going to make an impact, usually, on the outcome of the game. It's more important to try and win the game and get the points."

 Moore, a 25-year-old from Windsor, Ont., has a degree in environmental sciences and public policy from Harvard. A second-round pick in the 1998 draft, he's played 46 games with Colorado this year with three goals, five assists and 30 penalty minutes.

 The Canucks' win over the Avs snapped a three-game losing streak and was just Vancouver's second victory in seven games.

 The sports pages of both Vancouver newspapers were full of indignation over Naslund's injury.

 "If nothing else, Steve Moore's hit on Markus Naslund offers incontrovertible evidence that the instigator rule has to be dropped and the responsibility for policing the game has to be returned to the players," columnist Ed Willes wrote in the Province.

 Sun columnist Gary Mason offered Moore a warning.

 "I would caution Steve Moore to keep his head up unless he can develop into a must-see, seat-selling NHL superstar in a hurry," Mason said.

 "Even that might not be enough to get him out of this jam."

 Naslund has one year remaining on his contract and has mused about returning to Sweden to raise his family.

 He doubts the incident will affect his decision on retiring.

 "Obviously I thought a little bit about it laying in the hospital that night," he said.

 "I'm not afraid to come back and play and it's not going to make a difference in my decision way or the other.

[Q]Hockeyman Wrote:

What i would like to know is what Moore did to prevoke Bertuzzi to go ballistic in the first place, i know the game before was a huge factor but he must have done something to get Bertuzzi ticked[/Q]

Last night, all Steve Moore did was decline a plethora of invitations to fight (though he did square off with Matt Cooke). On the shift in which he was injured, two Canucks, including Todd Bertuzzi tried to goad him into fighting. Immediately before Bertuzzi punched Moore from behind, Moore refused to fight Bertuzzi and tried to skate away from him.

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

[www.canoe.ca]


VANCOUVER (CP) --

"On the play, Naslund was stretching for a loose puck. The six-foot-one, 210-pound Moore swerved into the smaller, lighter Naslund at high speed, smashing him with his shoulder and arm. Some television replays indicated Moore might have caught Naslund with his elbow.

 "Moore was not penalized on the play and the league opted not to take any action."

  [/Q]
Didn't see the play and frankly would just as well not. From this description it sounds a lot like the hit Scott Stevens made on Eric Lindros a few years ago, which no one seemed to take much exception to. Yes? No?

[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:Didn't see the play and frankly would just as well not. From this description it sounds a lot like the hit Scott Stevens made on Eric Lindros a few years ago, which no one seemed to take much exception to. Yes? No?
[/Q]The Naslund play actually didn't look bad to me at all (the injury notwithstanding). You can watch it without discomfort. It isn't even in the same league as the thump that Stevens gave to Lindros.

[Q]ugarte Wrote:

It isn't even in the same league as the thump that Stevens gave to Lindros.

[/Q]

Well, Moore's a Harvard gentleman, after all.

[Q]ugarte Wrote:
The Naslund play actually didn't look bad to me at all (the injury notwithstanding). You can watch it without discomfort. It isn't even in the same league as the thump that Stevens gave to Lindros.[/Q]

The Stevens hit on Lindros was entirely legal, in my opinion. The Moore hit on Naslund, though not as hard as the Stevens hit, should have been interference because Naslund had never played the puck. On the other hand, I think that Moore hitting Naslund in the head was mitigated by Naslund having lowered his head while trying to reach for the puck. If Moore had injured Artem Chubarov instead, there would not have been an uproar in Vancouver.

actually bertuzzi can be blamed for the fracture. the fracture could have happened when he was punched OR when his head hit the ice OR when bertuzzi forced his face into the ice. it is bertuzzis fault.

the stevens hit was a legal, quality hit on a player with the puck who was looking down while skating with the puck

the hit on naslund was interference and naslund did lower himself - but that should have been called.

the hit by bertuzzi was premeditated, a mugging, and followed by him jumping on moore and forcing his face into the ice. that is bad. also if u look at the replay it looks like moore may have been knocked out by the initial blow or at least stunned as he seems to go limp

bertuzzi deserves a suspension like mcsorley. rest of the season + 1 year

Matt Johnson received a 12-game suspension for sucker punching Jeff Beukeboom from behind. Beukeboom suffered a concussion that ended his career. I suspect that Todd Bertuzzi will be punished more severely, but the Johnson precedent makes a year-long suspension seem too severe, in my opinion. I think a gloved sucker punch to the head is less egregious than a two-handed slash to the head, and that is why I don't believe that the Marty McSorley precedent is appropriate for this case.

Anyone who says that the fracture wasn't caused by Bertuzzi is engaging in pointless rationalization. The fact is that Moore wouldn't have a fractured neck if Bertuzzi hadn't sucker punched and jumped him. It doesn't matter whether the actual injury happened as a direct result of the punch or his head hitting the ice or the dogpile. It's Bertuzzi's fault regardless.

Maybe Moore's hit on Naslund was actually interference but that's very different from a dirty hit with intent to injure. Sounds like Naslund was injured because of an unfortunate coincidence . Moore was deliberately attacked.

Scott Stevens is a dirty headhunter.

Not really relevant, just my $0.02.

[Q]cbuckser Wrote:

Matt Johnson received a 12-game suspension for sucker punching Jeff Beukeboom from behind. Beukeboom suffered a concussion that ended his career. I suspect that Todd Bertuzzi will be punished more severely, but the Johnson precedent makes a year-long suspension seem too severe, in my opinion. I think a gloved sucker punch to the head is less egregious than a two-handed slash to the head, and that is why I don't believe that the Marty McSorley precedent is appropriate for this case.
[/Q]

Beukeboom suffered a concussion albeit one that ended his career and Johnson got 12-games ... Moore has a FRACTURED VERTIBRATE and other injuries, he'll be lucky to walk again ... Bertuzzi should get the book thrown at him.

You have to be seriously kidding yourself (and anyone else) if you think that a suspension anything less than Steve Moores's recovery period will suffice. Premeditation carries the most severe penalty in courts and there is no reason that should not be the rule of law in this case.

IMHO, his suspension should last as long as it takes Moore to get back to the way he was prior to the incident ... if he never does then Bertuzzi should not play again either.

Athletics is not an arena that allows an eye-for-an-eye. These guys have to think before you decide to go Gladiator on their opponents ... no matter what the reasoning.

Interference is rarely called when someone is about to touch the puck. I didn't see the play but if he was stretching to touch the puck, I doubt many refs would call it.

ESPN.com's question of the night:

"How many games should Canucks forward Todd Bertuzzi be suspended for knocking Steve Moore unconscious?"
(... forgot to mention breaking his neck?!?)

o 1-10 - 13.0%

o 11-20 - 13.3%

o Regular Season + Playoffs - 32.3%

o One Year - 32.9%

o Not at all - 8.2%

Total Votes: 253,341

see [msn.espn.go.com]

The retaliation culture is bred deep in junior hockey and the minors, and it's still being rewarded in the NHL and by the media that cover hockey. The Flyers game a couple nights ago that resulted in the highest single game PIM was reported on ESPN as "ha ha, well, boys will be boys, (wink wink)." And as sick as it is, the crowds eat it up. Bootleg fight videos outsell game tapes. As long as the league figures pummelings are a money-maker, this stuff will keep on happening. The NHL will wring its hands and act as hypocritical as when the NFL or MLB says they're shocked that there's a drug problem in their leagues.

On ESPN last night they showed an interview of Bertuzzi after the game with the McSorely hit and he said it was "disgusting" and the "league should crack down on this."

hmmm...

"Countdown with Keith Olbermann" on MSNBC is leading the show with the Moore-Bertuzzi incident tonight. It's on at 8 p.m. EST. Should be a good segment, as Keith's analysis is always sharp.

Cause, you know, you're so impartial

Also on MSNBC tonight:

6:00 p.m. ET • THE ABRAMS REPORT — The video is shocking... a cheap shot on the ice and a player goes down. While the NHL’s Steve Moore fights for his life in a hospital bed, the player who blindsided him is under police investigation. Dan Abrams has the latest on this disturbing act of violence in pro sports and the legal fallout. (cc)

That's it, Age. You've just put yourself at the end of the line for Yanks tickets.

who wants yankees tickets anyway

I do. Of course, only because they're playing the Mets.

Glutton for punishment, eh?

another article from yahoo
[us.rd.yahoo.com]

Attack forces Canada to put ice hockey in the dock


March 10, 2004
TORONTO (AFP) - Canada put ice hockey, its national obsession, on trial, after a "frontier-justice" style attack by an All Star pro hockey player left an opponent in hospital with a broken neck.

The old joke "I went to a fight and an ice hockey game broke out" was dusted off for a new airing after the "sucker punch" delivered by Vancouver Canucks forward Todd Bertuzzi on Colorado Avalanche rookie Steve Moore.

Moore lay in a pool of blood for 10 minutes, his face smashed into the ice, Bertuzzi stalked him in apparent retribution for a hit on Vancouver captain Markus Naslund in a previous game.

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The incident earned saturation media coverage reserved in other countries for a celebrity trial in the United States or a royal scandal in Britain.

Sickening video from Monday night's game flashed across television screens, and top Canadian and world news was pushed off front-pages and radio news bulletins by the on-ice mugging.

Columnists condemned hockey as a "vile creature" an "affront to sport" stained by "frontier justice" and a "nightmare in the family living room."

The outrage held Canada and hockey up to unflattering scrutiny on foreign television networks like CNN, ESPN and other world broadcasters -- coverage which could seriously threaten the sport's hopes for new viewers and markets.

Moore, 25, lay in a Vancouver hospital on Wednesday with two fractured vertebrae in his neck and a concussion, with his career in the balance.

"He came within a fraction of inches of being killed or permanently disabled," his father, Jack Moore told the Toronto Star.

Bertuzzi, a hard nosed but talented winger was summoned to Toronto for an NHL disciplinary hearing expected to hand him a lengthy ban.

His troubles did not end there. Vancouver police were investigating the incident and could lay assault charges.

While hockey leaves much of the world cold, the sport forms a vital piece of Canada's national identity, from gleaming National Hockey League pro arenas to ramshakle rinks and frozen ponds in every town.

The annual quest for the sport's championship, the Stanley Cup, consumes sports fans, and provides television companies with their top viewing figures.

But normally mild mannered Canadians were left to reflect on Wednesday on the violent streak exposed and cultivated by a high speed sport where physical contact is lionized and any sign of weakness lampooned.

Hockey and society columnist Roy MacGregor said on the front page of the Globe and Mail that the NHL, which has six Canadian and 24 US franchises was in "intensive care" over the Bertuzzi scandal and a looming dispute between players and team owners which could darken arenas next season.

Toronto Star hockey expert Damien Cox lambasted the incident as "sickening, despicable and an affront to the sport" but predicted it would not end the "sick cycle" of NHL violence.

While hockey has always been inseparable from violence, the game is less tainted by bloodlust than in the days of mayhem and bench clearing brawls of the 1970s.

But it remains the only major sport where fighting, though punished by a five minute penalty, is tolerated, and regarded as simply part of the game, by fans, players and officials alike.

Where the Bertuzzi drama has touched a nerve is that it happened away from the play while Moore was unaware he was about to be hit.

The incident violated the "code" under which "enforcers" employed by pro-teams protect star players, with stand-up bare knuckle fights often arranged before the puck is dropped.

Monday's incident recalled another notorious controversy which dragged hockey through the courts, exposing the NHL, the sport's top professional league, to unflattering scrutiny.

In 2000, Boston tough guy Marty McSorley swung a stick and knocked out then Canucks enforcer Donald Brashear in one of the league's most violent incidents.

McSorley was convicted of assault and given an 18 month conditional discharge, banned for the year by the NHL and never played in the league again.

[Q]ben03 Wrote:
6:00 p.m. ET • THE ABRAMS REPORT — The video is shocking... a cheap shot on the ice and a player goes down. While the NHL’s Steve Moore fights for his life in a hospital bed, the player who blindsided him is under police investigation. Dan Abrams has the latest on this disturbing act of violence in pro sports and the legal fallout. (cc) [/Q]
The melodrama will not help anybody make a rational decision about the appropriate punishment Todd Bertuzzi should receive.

Spending three hours in a stadium that's half full of Yankee fans? Yeah, I'd say so.

[Q]cbuckser Wrote:

ugarte Wrote:
The Stevens hit on Lindros was entirely legal, in my opinion. [/Q]


With Scott Stevens, legality is not the question...when he's on the ice and sees a guy with his head down, Stevens' intent is to concuss, not defend, that player. I've seen plenty of hits in similar situations where offensive guys have escaped serious injury. Stevens is the only player in the league who consistently manages to injure players in situations that happen in with every team in every game.

[Q]bigredgum Wrote:


With Scott Stevens, legality is not the question...when he's on the ice and sees a guy with his head down, Stevens' intent is to concuss, not defend, that player. I've seen plenty of hits in similar situations where offensive guys have escaped serious injury. Stevens is the only player in the league who consistently manages to injure players in situations that happen in with every team in every game.
[/Q]

maybe it is not that stevens is attempting to concuss a player - maybe he just hits harder. he is a talented open ice hitter. if he were to consistently injure players with illegal or "cheap" hits then i would agree with you. stevens is not hte only player who has given lindros a concussion.

in fact, stevens has had concussions himself.

[sports.espn.go.com]

[Q]"He's doing well," Avalanche captain Joe Sakic said. "There is nothing to the spinal cord, which is nice."


Members of the Avalanche gathered at Vancouver General Hospital on Tuesday and broke into applause when Moore was wheeled into a room in a bulky harness intended to protect his neck.


He managed a smile for his anxious teammates and, after a trainer explained the injuries, said: "Looks worse than it is, though, right?"


One by one, Sakic and the rest approached Moore and whispered words of support. According to The Denver Post and Rocky Mountain News, he assured them: "I just have to wear this stylish brace for a while."[/Q]

I'm glad to see he's upbeat about it.

And.. Bertuzzi apologizes... [sports.espn.go.com] , but I haven't been able to find a direct transcript of his emotional apology yet.

Here's the thing, though... and I'm not trying to microanalyze his words or anything, but he apologizes for "what transpired," "what happened," etc. rather than "what I did." I know that arguments have been made about the roles of enforcers, and trying to send a message that says "don't f*ck with my teammates..." but I feel like he's apologizing for the outcome, not the act that lead to the outcome. It makes it feel "passive" in a way... and while I truly believe he's upset about it, and didn't mean to injure Moore to the extent that he did, I kinda feel like he's not really taking full responsibility for his actions.

Personally, I agree with the idea that Bertuzzi should be out for the extent of Moore's recovery.

Realistically, I think the way you put it is the case. You can't seriously think Bertuzzi intended to break Moore's neck or anything like that, and I'm sure he feels awful about the actual unintended (and, thinking like a law student, likely unforeseeable) consequences of his actions. But I don't think he's apologizing for what he did, because if his actions had had foreseeable results, sure, maybe Moore is out a couple of teeth or something, broken nose, Bertuzzi gets 5 games or something. Nobody would be making a big deal about it and he wouldn't be apologizing at all.

Here's the video of his statement, everything he says is pretty cut and dried so you don't really need a transcript:

[www.cbc.ca]

Personally, I was more affected by what he didn't say than what he did say. There are several painful lengths of silence where he gets choked up.

At the beginning of tonight's Wild-Canucks game, TSN.ca reported that Steve Moore suffered no damage to his nerves or spinal cord. Recovering from surgery to the cervical spine is no picnic (the average person has four inches of muscle in the back of the neck), but the absence of neurological damage means he should be able to make a complete recovery.

Bertuzzi is out for the rest of the regular season and playoffs:
[sports.espn.go.com]

[www.nhl.com]

Ooops. Sorry Pete. That teaches me to read before posting but th 1hr delay on the post time screwed me up!

IMHO, Gary Bettman Colin, Campbell and the NHL have sent a message that this behavior will not be tolerated. The TBD open-ended suspension handed down to Todd Bertuzzi and the $250,000 fine to the Canucks organization is fair and is in no way too severe. Allowing the situation to calm down and re-assessing what transpired before the next season of play is a decision that should be applauded. In a case where cooler heads did not prevail the first time around they have done just that the second time.

...just my $.02

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:

Realistically, I think the way you put it is the case. You can't seriously think Bertuzzi intended to break Moore's neck or anything like that, and I'm sure he feels awful about the actual unintended (and, thinking like a law student, likely unforeseeable) consequences of his actions. [/Q]Limiting what is forseeable to what is probable is unfair and too kind to Bertuzzi.

Start with the fact that he sucker-punched Moore from behind and then tackled him, giving him no opportunity to brace his own fall. If you think that the easily forseeable consequence is a broken nose, it is pretty clear that a brain or neck injury when Moore's head hit the ice are also quite forseeable.

I agree that Bertuzzi's apology sounded sincere, and that he wasn't thinking enough about the consequences of his actions, but thoughtless brutality has to be stopped also. I'm all for fights between people who want to fight, but this was disgusting. Kudos to the league for coming down hard.

I think they would have given him a longer suspension, but are looking at the possibility of next season starting very late...if at all.

[Q]From the ESPN story:

"These comments are for Steve. I had no intention of hurting you," Bertuzzi said Wednesday night, reading a statement before the Canucks played the Wild.[/Q]

Duh, you had no intention of hurting him when you grabbed him from behind, hit him in the face, and pushed him to the ice?

When will we all realize that the best way of putting this behind us is to accept responsibility and say you're sorry. Anything less than that just continues the discussion.

We should have learned from the Tylenol tampering case (I know it's too many years ago for most people, but maybe should be required yearly reading for anyone in the public eye) that if you accept responsiblity right away you can recover your good name.

I would have hoped that the team would have counselled him to just say what he did from the beginning was wrong and he accepts total responsibility for the consequences.

As I posted above, I agree with you Jim... but as someone told me on uscho:

[Q]Were he to say, "I am sorry for what I did," he is admitting blame for the incident. I have to believe that his attorneys have told him to avoid any admission of guilt and gave him specific phrasing. I work in PR, and I've got to believe that much of that statement was scripted by an attorney and a PR professional, or at least was created into message points, all of which was designed to avoid acknowledging any culpability.[/Q]

And later, when I asked "But... we already KNOW he's the culprit. Would saying 'I'm sorry for what I did' make him guilty for something we already know he did?" (or something to that effect):

[Q]Yes, absolutely, and I agree that it seems like a strange thing, a strange difference.

However, sometimes you don't want to admit these things, because if you do so, it then means that if you try to plea down to a lesser charge, you are contradicting what you've already admitted. It means that you are putting yourself in a position to be named in a civil suit, as opposed to just a criminal trial. It defines your defense, by admitting blame you've already made it difficult to shape the story as a temporary moment of insanity, changes how you are able to deal with the premeditated thing, etc. And so on. For a lawyer, that gives you NO opportunity to ever change your story. Lawyers hate stuff like that, it locks 'em in. That said, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not the best person to deal with the in depth legalese of all of that.

As a PR guy, for me it woudl mean that the media has thousands of opportunities to quote you and show you on TV saying "I did this, it's my fault, I take the blame," the sort of thing that your reputation might never recover from. But how many times will they really show a generic, "what happened was a sad accident, I am glad to hear that he will recover fully." There's really no there, there. That's a HUGE difference for the team and for Bertuzzi.[/Q]

Interesting points, and I suppose it makes me feel a little better about it... but something still doesn't sit well with me about the entire situation.

Something about the "until Moore returns" suspension doesn't sit well with me. That's like saying, well, it's OK to take cheap shots and be a goon as long as you don't hurt the guy enough to cause him to miss games. If it's something like a year or until Moore returns, whichever is longer, that would be fine with me. I suppose the NHL did the wisest thing by leaving it open-ended.

What? I only kicked him in the 'nads from behind while pulling his mullet! He can't have children now, but it's not like he's missing any games...

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

If it's something like a year or until Moore returns, whichever is longer, that would be fine with me. I suppose the NHL did the wisest thing by leaving it open-ended. [/Q]What I thought exactly, when I looked at your poll. Oops, that answer wasn't there .

McSorley believes Bertuzzi did not intend harm

McSorley believes Bertuzzi did not intend harm:
[sports.espn.go.com]

I'm not trying to excuse Bertuzzi's actions, but I'm starting to waffle on how long he should be suspended for. Regardless of Moore's condition I think he should be allowed to play next season. The act was vicious, but he's otherwise a classy player and also a "first-time offender". I think calling giving his career the death penalty is excessive.

[Q]KenP Wrote:
I'm not trying to excuse Bertuzzi's actions, but I'm starting to waffle on how long he should be suspended for. Regardless of Moore's condition I think he should be allowed to play next season. The act was vicious, but he's otherwise a classy player and also a "first-time offender". I think calling giving his career the death penalty is excessive.
[/Q]


First-time offender ... first time for what, breaking another players neck!?! Todd Bertuzzi is by no means a Brian Leech of the NHL. He has hit an official and had his fair share of fighting majors. "Seriously ... i didn't know the gun was loaded, i mean i pointed it at him but didn't think it was going too ..."
BULL SH*t! Whether he did not think what he was doing was wrong is not the issue, what he did was wrong and he should sit, for a longlong time.

[www.boston.com]

Do they really need to be armed? Are they going to have to shoot somebody?

I think if you have armed police at the game, you're more likely to end up with this kind of scenario:

[sports.espn.go.com]

I can't stop laughing - that's just too funny. But seriously though, maybe it will get the Lynah fans to stop yelling shoot - don't want any accidental discharge - a guy's worst nightmare.

Moore was released from the hospital... but it's still uncertain whether or not he'll be able to return to hockey.

[www.tsn.ca]

[www.tsn.ca]

Moore has no memory of the incident, but it's good that he's out of the hospital... and even made it to a game as a spectator

Bertuzzi is being charged with assault according to multiple news sources.

McSorely got assault with a weapon, so the charges were predictable this time.

My question is, why did it take so long to bring charges against him? It's not like they were out gathering evidence to put together a case.

[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:

McSorely got assault with a weapon, so the charges were predictable this time.

My question is, why did it take so long to bring charges against him? It's not like they were out gathering evidence to put together a case.[/q]

Or waiting for the team to be eliminated from the playoffs.

Johnny Cochrane could still demonstrate reasonable doubt that Bertuzzi was at the scene.

[Q]David Harding Wrote:

Section A Banshee Wrote:

McSorely got assault with a weapon, so the charges were predictable this time.

My question is, why did it take so long to bring charges against him? It's not like they were out gathering evidence to put together a case.[/Q]
Or waiting for the team to be eliminated from the playoffs.
[/q]
Hah... THAT didn't take long at all.