What the hell is going on?

Let's see, I left Cornell on the verge of it being a national hockey powerhouse again, the next year they make the Frozen Four then we come to this year.

Of course there was an expected drop off from the amazing class of '03, but this? In case no one noticed, the Red have lost more home games this year than they did in the previous four seasons COMBINED.

Someone tell this old sportswriter what is going on this season?


Confused and forced to live out my days not watching college hockey in Texas,
Charles Persons '02

Defense:
goaltending good. steadily improving.
defense pretty good. (powerkill not bad).
evidence- we let up <2 goals a game. (11 goals in 7 games)

Offense:
have lost all ability to score. (that's the main problem)
powerplay bad. no scoring, no shots. (we are 1 for 38 in last 7 games on the powerplay).
evidence- we have scored 6 goals in 7 games

other:
freshman class has yet to step up.
too many penalties.
injuries all over.
some games plagued by questionable reffing, but not all games.
we miss the talented senior class.

the team has potential for wins, with talented scorers (molson, hynes, vesce, bitz, abbott), good goaltending by mckee, and strong d (wallace, cook, downs), but has not capitalized on this potential.

after last season, it's like watching a completely different team some nights. i'm sure i am going to get walked all over by people on this board who feel it's illegal to say any negative comments about the team. i wish we improved as much as everyone else, but it's worth being realistic about our strengths and weaknesses.

i guess hockey isn't completely foresaken in texas- that's where goaltender mckee is from.



Post Edited (02-01-04 16:48)

I'd say that it has to do with us having a pretty young team and with having graduated a huge percentage of last year's total point production..but it seems like our more recent slide has to do with what Schafer talked about in the uscho game recap. It sounds like our team is in pretty rough shape, injury-wise. Even with our meager lineup last night, at least one of the ten forwards and 2 of the 6 (including Pajerski, so 5 who got significant ice time) d-men were playing injured.

from the recap:

Meanwhile, Cornell will continue to struggle with offense and injuries, as the near returns of Abbot and scoring powerhouse Vesce and seem unlikely.

"[Vesce]'s going to be out for a while. He has not had a full practice with us since December 5. He's one of the toughest players that I've ever coached, but it's come to a point where the team has to get healthy. He's not going to play until he's 100%."

young team with a lot of injuries. a lot of the players are playing hurt. expect them to make noise come playoff time when guys are coming back and getting healthy again. put together the beginning of the year's offense with mid-year defense, and you get one of the top teams in the country.

PRESUMABLY, from what i could gather on news writeups,

playing with injuries: hynes, molson (rpi game), gleed (home brown game), wallace
not playing with injuries: vesce (previously playing with injury), cam abbott, marr, cook

this possibly leaves the only person uninjured in the starting lineup to be bitz, who couldn't play yesterday with the DQ. so i guess the 2-1 game last night isn't as upsetting as many of us thought previously.

this is all pretty clear just by reading a few uscho reports- nothing confidential here. i hope that our players recover, and it shows alot of heart that so many of them continue to produce despite being injured. reminds me of the 76ers a few years back.



Post Edited (02-01-04 17:47)

Is it really necessary to have one of these posts every time that Cornell loses? I have enjoyed Cornell's success as much as anyone, but the result has been that the Faithful have become a bit spoiled. After losing last year's senior class plus LeNeveu, this was always going to be a rebuilding year, and the team is experiencing some growth pains.

This is not a pro franchise. We lose players every year and have to replace them with new blood. As talented as this year's freshmen are, no freshman class could ever replace last year's seniors. Give these guys some time.

canucksfan wrote:

Is it really necessary to have one of these posts every time that Cornell loses?

Hey, some of us need to pad our post counts by saying the same thing over and over again. Just kidding.

Seriously, though, should another one of these threads appear, I recommend we just post a link to a previous thread on the topic.

With all do respect everyone.. chill the fuck out. Wow we suck.. wow we keep losing.. wow we can't play at home.. wow we can't score. WELL DUUUUUUHHHH. It's obvious isn't it? But you know what? It is now February 1st. We have PLENTY MORE GAMES TO WIN. So stop posting this negativity shit and fuckin' SUPPORT THE CORNELL HOCKEY TEAM. IF THEY REALLY WANT IT, THEY'RE GONNA GET IT. EVENTUALLY, THEY'LL FIND WAYS TO WIN THAT WILL WORK FOR THEM. AND THE INJURIES WILL GET BETTER. SO CHILL THE FUCK OUT AND BE POSTIVE.


Thank you.

Age and I were talking about this earlier, and our conversation touched on the following point: Cornell is losing to the teams with whom they have a tough time when they're struggling. Dartmouth, Colgate, RPI, etc. That doesn't make those losses better, of course.

Plus, as many of the previous posters have mentioned, we lost a lot of talent last year -- not just talent but experienced talent. Keep in mind that the power play unit played together for three years. That's practically unheard of.

We lost our crease man (and thus a lot of rebound/goals off of screens) when Sam graduated. Looks like Schafer has Carefoot (when he's healthy) learning the job. Give him time. Remember, it took more than a season for Sam to become an integral part of the Big Red. His freshman year, he played something like 8 games and was pretty sure he was going to be cut. If Carefoot puts in a similar effort, and/or has more natural talent, he'll do just fine.

We don't have Doug's heavy shot from the point. It wasn't always accurate, but it was always intimidating. In a game where getting into the head of your opponent really means something, that's a bigger loss than it might seem at first.

And finally, I can't remember a time when this many players were hurt or not playing at 100%, barring the Pizza Hut incident. Even if all of our players were Vesces or Downses, the substitutes still wouldn't have the gametime experience that the usual lineup does.

I think that's what the hell is going on.

Um, HotelCalifornia...

pot calling the kettle black, eh?

[Q]With all do respect everyone.. chill the fuck out...So stop posting this negativity shit and fuckin' SUPPORT THE CORNELL HOCKEY TEAM.[/Q]

your post just the day before...

[Q] wtf is up with our team?... it doesn't even look like we're trying. We look like a freakin' highschool team for god sakes. We've got players MISSING PASSES, passing the freakin' puck a billion times with NO SHOTS...Then we've got one of our players, skating in the middle of our zone, no one is even around him and OOPS he falls down. What the hell? What is with this sloppy play? Where's the motivation?
[/Q]

Well.. I for one am still high on this team. They have so many injuries and are still battling it out.

LGR!!!!

The bottom dropped out in 87 and 93. This is nuthin.

Yes, despite the injuries and DQs, Cornell was really able to stay in the game @Colgate. Yes, it'd be nice if we could get on a winning streak, but it's not like we've been blown away this season. They keep it close, they're constantly a threat, and they continue to be within striking distance.

I was talking to my Dad the other night. He's a '72 grad of RPI. We were talking about the year 1985 when RPI was 35-2-1 on the way to the national title. They had a similar thing happen with a graduating class that included Daren Puppa, Adam Oates, John Carter (though he's sorta like Vesce in that he was just a junior). The seniors really have more of an effect than everyone imagined and there's bound to be some letdown when the very next season isn't quite up to expectations.

For the RPI equivalent to TBRW, see [www.augenblick.org]

For Cornell, even next year there will be some slack to get made up. Vesce, Wallace, Hornby (and Marr) will all graduate and I don't doubt their presence (or rather lack thereof) will be felt. That's the really challenging part for college coaches is to deal with large scale changes to their team on a yearly basis. It's not nearly the same problem as in the pros.

EDIT: Fixed the senior defenseman to be Wallace and not Downs.



Post Edited (02-03-04 14:53)

Downs is a junior.

I'm going to preface this by saying I may be dumb. I'm conceding that outright.

But here's what I don't get:
Yes, we lost seniors from last year. ...But every year, we lose seniors. Yes, this year we lost 7 players, but... From the posts, it seems as though the class who was there from '99 - '03 had more of a presence than... what, anyone else? More than those who were in years ahead of and behind them?

Each year we have to fill holes that the seniors leave... are we saying that these holes are extraordinarily large?

(I know what I want to say, but I'm having trouble finding the appropriate words to convey my meaning -- I hope someone will be able to decipher this post.)

Wallace is the senior D we are losing.

Although he, Hornby and of course Vesce are a big part of this team, as recent graduation losses go this will be cake. That doesn't mean the team will automatically jump to the top of the league, but I really think they will be solid. We don't appear to be bringing much in (only 4 guys -- one of them, Sawada, apparently a bluechipper), so there will be very little "learning curve" effect.

I still think there are going to be more recruits announced before the year is over. Judging by the lack of faith Schafer has exhibited in Chabot, I would be surprised if another goaltender isn't brought in..and with Stachurski quitting the team, and Wallace graduating..there's room for at least one more D-man, perhaps two?

Yes, the past year's losses were abnormally huge. LeNeveu was a Hobey Hat Trick finalist. Murray was a former Hobey finalist. Bâby, the McRaes, and Paolini were each good enough to have been the best player on previous squads. Palahicky was solid. Add them up and it was a devastating combo -- on the ice, and now... not on the ice.

The day before i was pissed, but now i see the reality, so i was changing my point of view, and ill do that, thank you.

[Q] Each year we have to fill holes that the seniors leave... are we saying that these holes are extraordinarily large? [/Q]

Of course we are! You also have to consider that we lost LeNeveu, not just the seniors. And look at all the seniors individually...each of them were extremely important to the team. You could argue that Bell was the weakest of a strong senior class, but I'd give a lot to have such a steady blueline presence around this year.

To HOTELCALIFORNIA:

You were making excellent progress on raising your post IQ since you joined the forum...don't start regressing on us.

All right, I can see that this year was more of a Gestalt-like loss than other years. But I still have faith



Post Edited (02-02-04 19:29)

I think you can also expect big things from Topher Scott - a small but hard working and talented forward. Should contribute a lot to offensiive production and go a long way in filling Vesce's shoes.

Look at it another way...

When was the last time we lost 3 players who were good enough to play in the first tier minor leagues their first year out, along with a couple more who are ECHL all stars? Not as long as I've following Cornell hockey.

That was an extremely talented group we lost. It will take some time to get back to where we were last year.

But as I said in a previous post...In Schafer we trust.

JH

One more viewpoint....If you look at Harvard (sucks), who was expected to finish in the top ten in the country and picked by all the pundits to win the ECAC hands down, they have very little chance of getting anything, except the Beanpot consolation. Granted, they could make a run, as could any other ECAC team.

If we're complaining this much about a team that hasn't met expectations, I can't imagine what Harvard's six fans are thinking. Because they have really under-achieved!!!!

If the current eLynah poll read:

"So far Harvard has

met my expectations
not met my expectations
exceeded my expectations"

...I think all the votes would be in not met my expectations.



Post Edited (02-04-04 16:00)

That poll would need an option for "sucked".

Chris '02 wrote:If the current eLynah poll read:

"So far Harvard has

met my expectations
not met my expectations
exceeded my expectations"

...I think all the votes would be in not met my expectations.

Harvard has exceeded my expectations. I could never have expected them to be so horrid, and I could never have expected to enjoy it so much.

[q]That poll would need an option for "sucked". [/q]


No "option" involved. Harvard sucks by definition.

JH

I'll be picky.

[q]I was talking to my Dad the other night. He's a '72 grad of RPI. We were talking about the year 1985 when RPI was 35-2-1 on the way to the national title. They had a similar thing happen with a graduating class that included Daren Puppa, Adam Oates, John Carter (though he's sorta like Vesce in that he was just a junior). The seniors really have more of an effect than everyone imagined and there's bound to be some letdown when the very next season isn't quite up to expectations. [/q] None of the three whom you named was a Senior in 84-85. Carter, as you said, was a Junior. Oates was also a Junior, and Puppa was a Soph. The problem was that Oates and Puppa, as well as George Servinis, the ECAC's ROTY in 82-83, left RPI early after the NCAA championship season, and there was no time to find replacements.

The grads in 1985 were the Captain Mike Sadeghpour and three defensemen, Ken Hammond, Tim Friday, and Pierre Langevin. Also, Kraig Nienhuis had used up his eligibility. An excellent group of defensemen were recruited, but RPI suffered in having an inexperienced defense coupled with a lack of firepower. Also, John Carter was injured in 85-86.

RPI also lost a couple of minor role players including Rick Tosto who transferred to MSU and became apparently the only player to ever be on two national championship teams for different schools in consecutive seasons (although I don't think that he played in either championship game). It was not necessary to sit out a year at that time.

[q]I'll be picky.[/q]

Ok, I was 5 or 6 years old at the time and hardly cognizant. I suppose something was a bit lost in translation too.

[q]Also, John Carter was injured in 85-86.[/q]

This sounds strangely like Vesce's situation now too!

No problem. I just felt like setting the record straight.

look at the birth years and compare to other teams!!!