Non-Students in the Student Section

I don't like that jerk Facetimer, but I think he/she/it raises a good point. I am one of those people that did not get a line number this year for tickets. The Cornell ticket office allocates certain sections to students, and other sections to alumni/staff/faculty/general public/etc. Alumni should sit in their seats, and only in their allocated seats. It's bad enough that the students don't got a majority of the seats in Lynah.

That said, I call on Cowbell Guy to surrender his tickets to a student. While at first it didn't seem to bother me, in viewing his website I noticed that while he is taking up a student seat, he is doing this only for personal gain and profit.

You will notice a PayPal link on the bottom of the page, where Cowbell Guy seeks donations for this site. Also, when you click on his images of each game, he writes that pictures are available for purchase and licensing. Maybe he will argue that he breaks even, if that, for hosting the site, but the fact remains that on all pictures and in links on his website, there are free advertisments for his business SalsaShark.net. It is clear what the motives of Cowbell Guy are, and it is not fair that he seeks profit while there are many students out there that just want to get in there and watch a hockey game.

I call on Cowbell Guy to voluntarily surrender his tickets to the box office, or I will take further action by notifying Gene Nighman and other Cornell Athletics administrators of this injustice.

-Bill '04, Lynah Faithful '01, '02 and '03

Yeah, it's not like he's vital to an important cheer in the game. Moving him to the townie section would sorta kill it.

Furthermore, this site provides a wealth of info, pictures, and discussion about the team that would not be possible anywhere else. While he might stand to profit on certain things, none of it is required - you can still visit the site and look at the photos for free. so what if he gets a free advertisement for his company, I'd rather see a few logos than nothing at all.



Post Edited (12-22-03 15:17)

Because noone else can do the cowbell cheer.

He even said he doesn't want to do it anymore.

OK, let's see now...

Cowbell Guy was primarily responsible for providing the hockeycam for free before the AD screwed it all up in favor of OCSN (last season) and i2sports (this season).

He also pays a $200/month fee for high-speed server space to provide this website. He simply suggests that people pitch in to help defray the cost.

He goes to practically every damn game (home and away) to cheer on the Red, and to play the cowbell, and to take photos. I don't have an exact figure, but I think he's missed maybe a total of 3 games (home and away) in the past 5 years. As much of a "Faithful" as you claim you are, I highly doubt that your attendance record can come close to matching his.

If you're pissed about the ticket fiasco, blame the powers that be. Don't look for a scapegoat here.

Yeah, it is so heartwarming, at this special time of year, to see such gratitude from a beneficiary of someone else's hard work.

Age, although I've never met you in person (only clapped along to your cowbell in my years in Section A), thanks for the site and all the effort you put into it.

You got me all wrong, RedAR, I don't question Cowebell Guy's dedication, nor do I want to compare him to me. And I also know that you are all his allies on this forum, so I know I am talking to a wall.

All I am saying is that students belong in the student section, alumni belong in the alumni section. He can be Cornell's #1 fan, just on the other side of the ice. As far as I know, the lighting for pictures on that side is just as good as it is on this side.

I have made my opinion known to Cornell Athletics, but I am also making it known to people who are sitting in the wrong seats, student tickets are limited, so we might as well have all students in those seats.

The fact that cowbell guy hasn't even said anything and has people whom he knows and doesn't know personally jump to his defence says alot. It's just ridiculous to attack someone who has obviously done his integral part as a member of the faithful. I can understand your frustration for not getting tickets.. but there could've been a million people you can blame for this. Not too many people would give you credit for blaming Age and raising this "grave and serious matter" to the clowns at the AD.

Why don't you make your opinion known to CU athletics about the ticket system itself instead of trying to pile on one person?

As for the sanctity of the student section, I went to pretty much every home game for my four years, and each season half the people sitting around me were different every game (including a freaking RPI fan my senior year). The Faithful and the student section are not synonymous. I also think that more seats should be allowed for the current students, but attacking one person who has been sitting in Section B for years before you arrived on the Hill doesn't solve anything at all.

I expect a denial, but I suspect that WITCHYWOMAN (nice Eagles reference, btw) = Facetimer.

I'm all for supporting my gender but that "W" needs to be replaced with a "B". Get off your high horse. Some alumni find ways to get tix in the "student" section. If they have the means, intelligence or drive to do so, all the power to them. The percentage of seats in the student section occupied by alumni is far less than those occupied by student "facetimers". I recommend you try and find a way to weed out these ignorant student fans before attacking the older more dedicated HOCKEY FANS.

Age has done more for CU hockey than a great deal of so called faithful. Simply wearing the shirt (as so many "faithful" do) doesn't cut it. Singling him out is not only wrong but hypocritical. I have no doubt that you cheer along with the bell at every game and that your Lynah experience has been influenced by his game antics - not just wrt the cowbell but also the occasional original cheer/comment deviating outside the realm of the overused ______ SUCKS!

Now that I've had my rant I've gotta say that this board is disintegrating before our eyes. It seems like we have a second USCHO. Yuck! Can we please leave the flame fests there?

Last I knew, students who got line numbers could buy a pair of tickets each... is that no longer the case? There's a long tradition of recent alumni taking advantage of this system by having undergrad friends buy their tickets and therefore being able to stay in A or B as long as they possibly can - because it's a fine place to be, and because they want to contribute to the mayhem.

Nobody has ever suggested to me that it was wrong, and it's unlikely anybody will convince me now - especially when the student sections are rarely full until the end of the first period, and are rife with facetimers who don't know or care about hockey.

And especially when they're hiding behind an anonymous post and a big ball of seething anger.

Beeeej

P.S. I'll be surprised if Gene even hiccups, much less considers taking Age's tickets.

P.P.S. For everything Age has done to facilitate the Faithful community, as far as I'm concerned he deserves every bit of profit and "personal gain" he can eke out of it.



Post Edited (12-22-03 16:27)

And hey, if it puts an end to the foolish Macho Man and Gary Glitter dances (where the hell did THAT abomination come from, by the way ???), I say put more alumni in the student sections...

But as far as blaming someone who clearly did not skirt the line for personal monetary gain or just to get Harvard tickets because it's "the cool thing to do," just because you got screwed by athletics... get over yourself.

I'm afraid to ask.

Gary Glitter dance...?

Beeeej

First of all, there is no "alumni section." Athletics sells the seats in A, B, D, E, F, and G to people with valid student IDs. Whatever happens to them after that isn't the fault of the Athletics Dept, Gene Nighman, or the people who buy or acquire them. Blame those students who sell their tickets, if it really bothers you.

The remaining seats are sold to renewing season ticket holders, sold as single-game tickets, given to opponents, or given as comps to the coaches and players.

I've known many alumni who come back for one weekend and want to relive their time in B or show their spouse what being in the student section was like. Hate them or not, if they can get tickets for that section, then they have every right to be there.

This complaint is the most petty I've seen here, Bill. It sounds like you would prefer a Student General Admission set-up to the current ticket system. Many here wouldn't mind that, but for other reasons than yours.

Well, I suppose it's a fair enough gripe, but as long as each student can buy more than one ticket, it's a practice that will continue. God knows I'm not the only one. More importantly there's nothing that says those tickets can only be used for students. Tickets don't say it. Nothing during the purchasing procedure says it.

What I do take offense to is the notion that I'm doing this for profit. If I billed my normal rate for the time I spend working on eLynah I could have retired by now. As it stands, even with everyone's very generous donation, I'll probably lose about a grand just on the server costs this year, and likely more next year since I don't expect the same generosity every year, and I'm fine with that. If I want to stick a tiny SalsaShark.net at the bottom of a few pages, I will. If I could get enough paying clients to cover server costs, I'd happily stop taking donations. On top of that, I gave the team 30 copies of the BC DVD, as well as sets to several of the players' parents for free. I've sold 2 prints of my photos, which probably didn't even cover gas for a road trip. (And just to clarify, the last ECAC home or away game I missed was in 1998.)

So if you have a problem with me being in a student section, take it up with athletics and their distribution methods. But don't you dare accuse me of doing this for profit.

Yeah. What Beeeej said. Nicely put!

Am I the only one confused by WITCHYWOMAN being named Bill?

[Q]I'm afraid to ask.

Gary Glitter dance...?[/Q]
Yeah. It started slowly, but now, pretty much all of Section B does this thing with their clapping now. Between each clap you alternately raise one arm. Looks like some sort of aerobics exercise.

I don't mind it so much sitting in H, since D-F has a tough time staying with the actual beat. It gives me a visual to see where the real beat of the song is.

Age,

I think most people are arguing the other point of WITCHYWOMAN's post simply because the idea of you making profit off all you do is simply foolish. The rest of us know better than that. Whoever the flamer is ... he/she is obviously bitter and clueless.

well, WITCHYWOMAN being named Bill gives credance to the theory that Facetimer is a lesbian transexual.

How long until DESPERADO shows up?

Listen everyone, don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.

WITCHYWOMAN wrote:
While at first it didn't seem to bother me, in viewing his website I noticed that while he is taking up a student seat, he is doing this only for personal gain and profit.

You will notice a PayPal link on the bottom of the page, where Cowbell Guy seeks donations for this site. Also, when you click on his images of each game, he writes that pictures are available for purchase and licensing. Maybe he will argue that he breaks even, if that, for hosting the site, but the fact remains that on all pictures and in links on his website, there are free advertisments for his business SalsaShark.net.

The day SalsaShark.net turns a profit, I'll eat a sweaty jockstrap of a player of your choice in front of everyone in the Bartells Hall turf room.

CBG pays over $200 out of pocket *every* month to host eLynah. This doesn't include the countless hours he spends maintaining and upgrading the site or the money spend on the hardware involved in maintaining the site.

Nor does it include the cost of the camera equipment (~$1500 for the camera body alone), nor the time he spends processing each and every image. Just because they are digital images doesn't mean they don't have lengthy post processing involved. Do you realize each photo takes 5-10 minutes of processing, assuming nothing goes wrong? (http://elynah.com/?page=/pictures/process) Assume 80 pics at 5 minutes each and you're talking about almost 7 hours post production for a single weekend. You ever price out professional photographers by the hour?

Between the direct out pocket costs and the equipment, CBG spends thousands of dollars a year on eLynah before we even get to the opportunity cost of the countless hours he puts in. Thus, your suggestion that CBG is exploiting Cornell Hockey for his own profit is either incredibly naive or disingenuous..

In the balance, the petty threats of an someone that doesn't even have the courage to sign his full name are childish at best.

Regards.

John

Oh my freakin' God, WITCHYWOMAN, Bill, whatever you name is, bite the freakin' weenie. Who cares about Student Sections and Townie Sections. Get your tickets and sit wherever if your a true fan.. and if you don't get your tickets TRY NEXT YEAR.. I mean who cares that your just another fan who didn't get what he wants, don't bring your crap here. And by the way, Age does so much around here for the fans, not for "personal profit". Do you know how many hockey parents have apprieciated his work? Youre a selfish hockey fan if you'd rather please yourself than many other people. And besides, there are ALWAYS people out there selling their tickets before the games. Buy your tickets there and take your crap somewhere else.

And if you want my REAL opinion, Cornell should decrease the amount reserved for the students. This whole freakin' community supports the students, and there are some "townies" out there who have been going to games waaay before you students were even born. So put that in your blunt and SMOKE IT.

Among the many flaws in your argument, WW, is that the paypal link is somehow improper. Did you pay to use the site? To view the photos? To read the boxscores? I didn't think so. The button says "donate" not "admission charge."

Donate if you wish, but don't pretend that eLynah is anything other than free.

I feel a bit psychic.

I correctly nail FaceSlimer as a transsexual lesbian only to be treated to this dreck by WITCHYWOMAN (who is Bill '04??) Maybe we will be rid of this gender challenged yoyo at season's end.

Please someone drop the puck. Drop some mistletoe. Oh fuck you can drop some acid. This board is beginning to remind me of a senior seminar that has been infiltrated by a bunch of sophomores.

Dr. Pavlov signing off!

If you want someone to blame for not having a line number, I think you oughta blame the people that cut in line during the line number distribution itself, or Athletics for coming up with such an asinine system in the first place.

17 days down, 4 to go.

You guys don't get it.

If I could chose what alumni I want sitting in the student section Cowbell Guy would be at the top of the list. But that isn't my point.

It doesn't matter what type of student sits in the student sections, so long as they are students. The SA allocates funds from the student activities fee to help defray the cost of student season tickets. This is why tickets only cost $109.00.

I'll be the first to admit that the policy for getting tickets suck, but it doesn't help when several alumni, not just Cowbell Guy, take up what little seats there are in the student section. I don't care about an alumnus coming up for a game or two and buying seats from a student, I mind alumni that steal from the student activities fee and steal a seat from a potential student who might one day be a valuable contributor to this forum.

I call on Cowbell Guy to surrender his seats because he is robbing a student of the Cornell hockey experience that everyone on this forum holds dear. Maybe the kid is a facetimer, but I can bet that Cowbell Guy wasn't a hockey fan until he came to Cornell. So let's give that facetimer a chance to see what all the hype is about.

But then again, as I said before I am talking to a wall. There are very few students who read this forum and care enough to comment. The rest of you are Cowbell Guy's friend and feel the need to defend how good of a fan he is.

...And I am not facetimer, but the more you guys respond, the more synical and more sypathetic to facetimer's arguements (when (s)he is not calling everyone a stupid facetimer) I become.

WITCHYWOMAN wrote:
And I am not facetimer, but the more you guys respond, the more synical and more sypathetic to facetimer's arguements (when (s)he is not calling everyone a stupid facetimer) I become.

It's too late to respond to this in full. My one point that I will say is the the Cowbell cheer is a long standing tradition in Cornell hockey and it wouldn't work if Age was anywhere else. I have a hunch that if someone else was to take over the Cowbell, Age would eventually yield his B tickets. But, even if he didn't, Age should be allowed to sit on the damn bench if he so pleases.

Okay, to respond to the part that I quoted... um, you realize that's the full extent of it's arguments, right? There is nothing else to be sympathetic to.

WITCHYWOMAN wrote:
You guys don't get it.

If I could chose what alumni I want sitting in the student section Cowbell Guy would be at the top of the list. But that isn't my point.

Eleven hours earlier:

WITCHYWOMAN wrote:
While at first it didn't seem to bother me, in viewing his website I noticed that while he is taking up a student seat, he is doing this only for personal gain and profit.

...It is clear what the motives of Cowbell Guy are, and it is not fair that he seeks profit while there are many students out there that just want to get in there and watch a hockey game.

Of course he'd be at the top of your list.

Sorry, "Bill," but for some reason I think you lose your moral authority to suddenly express admiration for a guy when you've been accusing him in front of his friends of trying to rip his friends off.

You want Cornell to make a hard and fast rule against alumni sitting in student sections, that's one thing - feel free to take your case to the AD, though (again) I doubt you'll have much luck as along as each student can buy a pair of season tickets. But trying to get individual alumni thrown out, especially when you can't seem to decide for sure why, is transparently petty and smacks of personal vendetta.

And as has already been pointed out, I don't think Facetimer has any arguments, just some bizarre kind of inferiority complex. Now that may deserve your sympathy. Excuse me, "sypathy."

Beeeej



Post Edited (12-23-03 05:52)

Before this argument becomes more pointless and stupid, let me ask a question, just to clarify something (perhaps only to myself): how does Age acquire his tickets each season? Are his seats 'reserved' by Athletics, so that only he can buy them? Do legitimate students buy his tickets and then give/sell them to him?

I should also note that I'd like Age to continue to occupy his seats and run eLynah however he sees fit. I'm just trying to possibly find a way to justify Age's presence in section B to WITCHYWOMAN.

Heh. I'm persona non grata in much of athletics for various reasons. I'll share that jockstrap with John the day they reserve me a seat. No, I just pay a student for their second set of tickets, and even though I'm not technically in it, I'm at the ticket line. For what it's worth, I'm in A this year since my very dedicated student friend who started lining up on Wednesday got screwed like so many others.

Jeffrey "Beeeej" Anbinder '94 wrote:
And as has already been pointed out, I don't think Facetimer has any arguments, just some bizarre kind of inferiority complex. Now that may deserve your sympathy. Excuse me, "sypathy."

That was very synical, Beeeej.

Jeffrey "Beeeej" Anbinder '94 wrote:

I'm afraid to ask.

Gary Glitter dance...?

Beeeej

Be afraid... be very afraid...

As Rich said, it looks like a giant aerobics work-out, and almost as pathetic as Macho Man. Not to give anyone any ideas, but it borders on "YMCA" - the students raise their left and right arms (at an angle, as if they're forming one half of the Y) alternately after they clap and, I can't stress this enough, it looks really stupid.

The point of Gary Glitter is to intimidate the opponent, and this little number not only encourages a visiting team that victory is not only possible, but very likely because, hey, the fans don't care - they're dancing!

This probably sounds kinda strong, but I don't care. I just want the few people who both read this board and do these silly dances to know that they are adding to the pussification of Lynah that athletics seems bent on achieving.

There, I said it. No smileys - I'm semi-serious.

Sully '00 wrote:

The point of Gary Glitter is to intimidate the opponent, and this little number not only encourages a visiting team that victory is not only possible, but very likely because, hey, the fans don't care - they're dancing!

I really wish people would stop pretending that we, as fans, intimidate our opponents. We may "inspire" our team by our show of support. We may make it difficult for the opposition to call out instructions because they aren't used to the volume. We may intimidate the refs a little (though there is no evidence of that).

The visiting team isn't intimidated, nor does the GG dance make the opposition think that we are weak, distracted and easily overrun. I am no fan of the GG dance but it isn't costing us goals, much less games.

Cowbell Guy wrote:

Heh. I'm persona non grata in much of athletics for various reasons. I'll share that jockstrap with John the day they reserve me a seat. No, I just pay a student for their second set of tickets, and even though I'm not technically in it, I'm at the ticket line. For what it's worth, I'm in A this year since my very dedicated student friend who started lining up on Wednesday got screwed like so many others.

I kinda figured as much, but I just wanted to be sure.

In any case, it seems clear to me that this is a very valid right to be where you are in Lynah. You aren't 'stealing' seats from a supposedly more deserving student, since a student bought your tickets originally and then sold them to you (presumedly at face value). And, to add insult to injury to WITCHYWOMAN'S request, you did your time in the line.

big red apple wrote:
I really wish people would stop pretending that we, as fans, intimidate our opponents. We may "inspire" our team by our show of support. We may make it difficult for the opposition to call out instructions because they aren't used to the volume. We may intimidate the refs a little (though there is no evidence of that).

The visiting team isn't intimidated, nor does the GG dance make the opposition think that we are weak, distracted and easily overrun. I am no fan of the GG dance but it isn't costing us goals, much less games.

"Intimidate" may not be the right word, but if you believe we've never gotten into a visiting goalie's head, then you're not giving the fans enough credit.

I kind of like the GG "dance" as you all call it.

It certainly helps keep people from clapping too fast and getting off beat (like sections D-G often do in the second round).

From the townie section (where I've been allowed to sit even though I'm a student, GASP!) it looks impressive and eye-catching.

I say keep it!

I'm no friend of Age's, and he's no friend of mine. In fact, the few times I've met him in the games, he comes off as downright smug. On the other hand, I'm sure I come off even worse.

Thing is, that's hardly the point.

It doesn't matter who Age is. It doesn't matter how many games he goes to, whether or not he advertises, how much he does for the community, or whatever other bloody complaint that someone might levy.

Athletics has a policy and his methods of gaining a ticket jibe with that policy. The last I checked, buying someone else's ticket was not considered "stealing." Heck, there isn't even any unfair leveraging.

While the ticket sales approaches vary year-over-year in degrees of stupidity, what remains is that only a minority of students can obtain a ticket for themselves and one other person. Period. No regulation of how old you are, your alumni status, how loud you cheer, nor whether or not you have a cowbell in hand. There is a reason for this and it's called Fair Play. Age play's fair, what else does he need? There's no need to drag anything else into this.

---
Bottom line aside, I am very grateful for the work that Age has done over the years and appreciative of the benefits that I have received from his hard work. Age, please keep it up, and thank you for all you have done and continue to do.

Darren Leung
'96

Ya know, you can't criticize Age... after all, he is the 'Coolest Guy in the World'

to throw another wrench into the whole debate, i have been told numerous times by athletics (in the past few months) that the biggest change they will make for next season's line is a one-person, one-number, one-ticket policy. this is not aimed at alums whatsoever. (if an alum wanted tickets badly enough (s)he could find a student to wait, or procure a legitimate id anyway). in my discussions with the AD, this policy would be aimed at reducing the number of fans who get tickets by waiting in line for a very short time (youd have to do the time yourself, if you want all of your season tickets). more importantly, it would prevent alot of the scalping that went on last year, since the scalpers would have to decide between the money OR any tickets at all. nothing is final til it actually is enforced, but that's what i've heard. so in the context of this debate, the new policy being kicked around would, i think, end up slightly hurting alums like age and many others. but the guy hasn't missed a game since 1998; i'm sure he can find someone to help him out with tickets.

also, as a much bigger implication of this possible policy, you would have to deal with twice as many students lining up (1600 instead of 800). so the rest of the line policy would have to be flawless or all hell could break loose.

mike rosenberg '04

What happened to the forum ... ... where are the days of discussions about Doug Murray's inability to keep the puck in the zone, or Mark McRae's underratedness, or McKee leading the ECAC in GAA?

Anyway, I didn't know that any section in Lynah was actually a 'student' section. Instead there are sections where every 2 tickets are sold to one student and used by anyone.

As for the student activity fee, the portion athletics gets is NOT just for reducing the cost of men's ice hockey, but for making every other sport free to students.

Enjoy those other sports, they're totally free, start a new student only section at the field hockey games.

Happy Holidays and LGR!

Many opposing players have commented over the years that, after the first few times at Lynah to absorb the atmosphere, they actually play better there because the crowd gets them up.

Likewise, the crowd's antics have distracted several opposing players over the years, culminating in Nicky Boucher's lasting contribution to Cornell hockey history.

What's our Lynah ECAC RS record again? 282-92-28

[members.cox.net]

EDIT: is it thread drift if you are drifting TO the topic of hockey?



Post Edited (12-24-03 10:19)

Darren is exactly right. WITCHYWOMAN's problem is with the policy in place from Athletics (or with the name "Student section".

As a practical matter, however, any alum (or anyone else) can just hire someone to wait on line to buy only one set of tickets anyway, so changing the policy won't necessarily eliminate non-students from the "student sections." In order to do that, you'd have to screen the people entering the Rink to make sure they were the ticket purchase, or a valid transferee of the ticket who is also a current student.

BTW, having the cowbell in B (or A) hasn't always been the tradition. I think it was in D (with the upperclassmen) when I first started going to games and was definitely in F/G for a few years.

Wouldn't the world (and Lynah) be a better place if we had more cowbell guys and less WITCHYWOMEN! just askin

WITCHYWOMAN wrote:
There are very few students who read this forum and care enough to comment

i'm a student...i've commented...and i know a bunch of other students who have too...

[Q]young faithful 07 wrote:

i'm a student...i've commented...and i know a bunch of other students who have too...[/Q]Yeah, but since you take a month to comment, does it really matter?