Athletics: Throw Toys Instead of Fish

[cornellbigred.ocsn.com]

I'm not sure how I feel about this... On the one hand, it's certainly a good cause. But on the other, it's such a good tradition.

why don't they compromise and give the families and children of ithaca the actual fish

This is really a dumb solution. Nothing against toy drives - it certainly a good cause. But people will get fish into the rink and the fish will be thrown. So if people do throw toys as well then we'll end up with a bunch of nasty, fish guts coated toys. Not a pleasant thought.

Anyone with a USCHO login ought to post this and see what the rest of the college hockey message board community thinks...

Personally (and this is my opinion, so feel free to agree or disagree), I think this is a great idea. The fish can be pretty nasty and are a waste of good fish. I think it'd be pretty funny to some giant stuffed fish toys thrown on the ice.

Anyone for The Little Mermaid?

If they want to start a tradition, then they should do the toy drive on the *other* night.

Using needy kids to try to kill off the fish tradition is either dumb or cynical.

Greg Berge '85 wrote:
Using needy kids to try to kill off the fish tradition is either dumb or cynical.

Eh... I'd give them enough credit to call it "attempting to kill two birds with one stone." That said, it won't work.

This is a fine idea, but not on a night that fills the rink with the smell of the alleys of Boston. I bet stuffed toys will be tossed right in the garbage bags with the fish guts. You can make a case for throwing teddy "bears" any night. Why not make the Vermont game "stuffed animal" night?

Evan '02 wrote:
Why not make the Vermont game "stuffed animal" night?

Because it's already "inflatable sheep" night?



Post Edited (12-03-03 19:31)

Hence the "stuffed animal" comment.

I thought it was elephant.

I especially love the part where they threaten to remove the Gary Glitter song from the pep band's repertoire. I feel like I'm in middle school

Toys for Tots is a wonderful program, but they should just put big collection bins at the entrances (you could bring some cooler toys besides a dumb stuffed fish then )



Post Edited (12-03-03 20:13)

[q]Pete Godenschwager wrote:

I especially love the part where they threaten to remove the Gary Glitter song from the pep band's repertoire. I feel like I'm in middle school [/Q]
If you want to behave like children...

I don't want to rehash the pro/anti profanity argument; I think we know where everyone stands on it. But the school has made its position perfectly clear. I don't blame the band for playing Gary Glitter - enough people (and probably all of what I expect is a risk-averse band) say "Rough 'em up" that they can play the song in good faith. However, if the crowd won't stop shouting "Fuck" when the band plays GG, playing GG is the obvious casualty.

As for getting rid of the fish, that is a terrible idea. Has the administration completely lost its soul? Actually, I don't think so: [Q]Cornell is on notice that if the game is delayed because of fish on the ice or if other disruptive, unsportsmanlike conduct from the fans occurs (particularly the throwing of objects at players or officials), the Big Red will be penalized. [/Q]
I think we get the warning every year, but we only get penalized if there is a second wave - or even a second splash - of fish. And throwing something at the players or officials SHOULD lead to a penalty and an ejection. I suspect enforcement (by the redcoats and the zebras) will be the same this year as every other year.

The logic of the toy substitution isn't consistent anyway. Is there a reason why Cornell wouldn't get a penalty if there was a delay from picking up 100 stuffed Nemos from the ice?

Bring a fish and a toy. Keep the fish and the toys in separate pockets, and pass the toys over to the zamboni entrance if they don't give you a place to leave them near the main entrance.



Post Edited (12-03-03 20:40)

[Q]Is there a reason why Cornell wouldn't get a penalty if there was a delay from picking up 100 stuffed Nemos from the ice?[/Q]Yes, because Mazz won't whine as much if we're throwing toys on the ice instead of fish heads at his players.

He doesn't like to get fish innards stuck in his mustache (he's got something to hide).

[Q]there a reason why Cornell wouldn't get a penalty if there was a delay from picking up 100 stuffed Nemos from the ice?[/Q]
On the page, Althetics requested that the toys be thrown prior to the announcement of the starting lineups (their italics and underlining). I think the idea is for the whole throwing and picking up to be done and over with before the players come on the ice, therefore not causing a delay. Personally, I agree with the opinions expressed above that it might be better off for everyone if donated toys were politely put in a bin, rather than being thrown.

Definitely a better idea.

Shorts '04 wrote:

[Q]there a reason why Cornell wouldn't get a penalty if there was a delay from picking up 100 stuffed Nemos from the ice?[/Q]
On the page, Althetics requested that the toys be thrown prior to the announcement of the starting lineups

I may be having a memory lapse here, but aren't the fish traditionally thrown prior to the announcement of the starting lineups? (ie, when the Harvard players emerge from the locker room)



Post Edited (12-03-03 21:33)

Shorts '04 wrote:
Personally, I agree with the opinions expressed above that it might be better off for everyone if donated toys were politely put in a bin, rather than being thrown.

Yay! Broken Toys!

But seriously, hucking an entire carton of Lincoln Logs at Harvard could be fun...

"Toys that are collected from the ice prior to the announcement of the starting lineups will be donated"

It seems like they might want toys thrown prior, fish thrown right after pick-up...keeps everything separated and the toys clean of that Cambridge stink (and we get to throw more).

Oh, man, this is going to be a clusterfuck. Anyone want to hazard a guess on how many stuffed animals are used to sneak fish into the rink? Or maybe the rink staff will have sniffer dogs smelling all the toys to check for fish odor? No worry, they'll all smell like fish by the time it's over.

I agree completely that it would have been a much better idea to get people to throw teddy bears at the Brown game.

Also, they seem to have totally given up on the catch-more-flies-with-honey approach on the language. I'm sure the iron fist will go over really well. Surely there's got to be a better way to get out the message that you say "rough 'em up" at the game and "fuck 'em up" when it plays on the jukebox at the bar afterwards...

I think it'd be hysterical to see hundreds of stuffed fish on the ice. People have been throwing different "types" of fish in the last few years anyway: pictures of fish, tuna fish cans, frozen fish sticks, sweedish fish, Daniel Fischer...

It still gets the point across, and it *is* a good cause... I can see why the administration was trying to get people to do it.

Another problem with this, though, is that not everyone reads the athletic pages before going to the games. So even if people DO abide by the administration's wishes, there are going to be people who will live by the old tradition anyway.

Eh, what are you gonna do... ...besides use your newspaper as a shield for the back of your head...

This isn't a bad idea in theory but it would obviously never work. I think doing that at the Brown game (or another game in December during any given year) is a great idea, but not to replace throwing fish. Also, having bins at the door is definitely the way to go because so much can happen to the condition of the toys by throwing them on the ice, there is a good chance many of them will be unsuitable as gifts.

I think everyone should show up to [insert name of whomever came up with this article]'s house and throw fish at it. That would be damn funny.

Didn't somebody throw a huge dildo on the ice a few years back? I'd think that would stop the request for throwing "toys."

Okay, I'm more than a little loopy now.

Have any of you ever skated on that ice the next day? Believe me, 7am hockey practice the morning after the hahvard game...... you really reconsider the fish idea.

Well, season ticket holders got this article in the form of an e-mail, and it was signed by Gene Nighman. So by all means, pack on the rotting trout, catfish, tilapia, squid, and gefilte fish over to his house. He deserves it.

The whole article is yet another empty threat by Athletics anyway. Fish will be thrown, the warning will be announced, the game will play. If anyone throws another fish at the 2nd period or anytime thereafter, I heartily agree, kick em out and expose them as a facetimer, and banish them from Lynah.

I was at the game last year and if I remember correctly, the fish weren't thrown until the HARVARD STARTING LINEUP WAS BEING ANNOUNCED. The athletics department specifically underlined that the toys be tossed prior to the announcements of the starting lineups. Therefore, wouldn't the toys be picked up before the lineups are announced and the fish thrown onto the ice.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but in '78, one of the fraternities (SAE?) threw a 4-5 foot long phallus with "Harvard Sucks" painted on the side onto the ice.

If you're wondering how they got it into Lynah, back in those days, they opened the doors and let anyone come in for free after the second period (which coincidentally was when we threw the fish back then). When they opened the doors, they simply ran down the aisle between D & E, and threw it on the ice.

JH

Let's see... We can act with class, Coach Schafer supports the idea, and we don't run the risk of getting a delay of game penalty. So why not be "daring" and accept a change. I'm sure with the creativity of this board, some ideas already mentioned above, that we can adapt....

I say good fellows, sir 'ice the puck' is totally correct in his assessment of our boorish behavior. We should respect both the team of our jolly comrades, and our brothers at Harvard. Moreover, we should watch this delightful contest of comraderie with but two extremes; deep eager silence of enraptured attention, and well timed hearty applause in the Traditional Cornell fashion.

Sheesh, it's throwing fish before the game starts. I can think of about a billion more irritating things that other arenas do, and more than one game, not just once a year, starting with the damn Union oranges and ending with squid.
This would be another version of an attempt at a crackdown. Yeah, it's better that "We will kill you once for each fish you throw," but it's nothing new, and if they want people to throw toys (as opposed to a drop-bin), the smuggling will become even worse, barring the Ushers opening lego boxes looking for fish. I can only imagine the conversation with Shafer about his opinion on it.

Random Guy: "Coach, would you rather have a toy drive, or an outside chance of a penalty?"
Shafer: "Ooh, tough one, I'm gonna go with the penalty though."
...
Shafer: "Shit! I meant Toy drive! Toy drive!"

guys what about this? is this a mistake? from the same article

[q]
Use of Profane Language
Cornell Athletics would like to remind everyone of the rules regarding the use of profanity. People shouting obscenities are subject to expulsion, whereupon, a staff member will record the offender's name and ID number. A second violation of the profanity policy will result in revocation of your season tickets.

If the use of profanity continues during the "Rocky Theme/Rock and Roll Part 2" (Gary Glitter) songs that are typically played at the start of the third period (Rough 'em up, Rough 'em up, GO CU!), the athletic department may be forced to remove the song from the band's repertoire. The substitution of "Rough 'em up" with "F*** 'em up" must stop. Everyone revels in the atmosphere and electricity produced at Lynah when the songs are played, and it is our sincere desire to continue the tradition of these songs. However, if the profanity is not removed, we will be forced to discontinue its use.

Thank you for your help and enjoy this weekend's games[/]

um, do they mean that ...oh nevermind, now i read it correctly. they are writing the article as if the rough em up is the original wording and that substituting with f 'em up is what is being done and is wrong. ok, forgive my idiocy - i need more sleep

I respect tradition as much as anybody. So throw your fish, take the penalty, Harvard scores, Harvard wins by one goal, Harvard wins the ECAC by a point or two, we do not win the play-offs (Brown does)we do not get an at large bid (something about RPI and Mercyhurst, Western Michigan, OSU and others) (or you can substitute Brown and Harvard in this scenario ) but ... our tradition prevails..Shafer was brow-beaten into his support (does he seem the type ) .... point well taken..

jy3 makes a good point, nevertheless. If there's anything more piercing than that trumpeter in the Clarkson band, it's hearing nothing but an endless stream of asterisks coming from the student section. Please everyone, no more asterisks in front of the children. None of that "eff star star star 'em up", either, because we all know what you mean. Goodness!

Strictly speaking the article says "stuffed toys". They don't want Lincoln logs and other hard toys thrown on the ice. They want things that can't hurt anyone. Also, it's unlikely that a stuffed teddy bear is going to be damaged by being tossed on the ice.

Don't know what happened last year - haven't made it to a Harvard game at Lynah in five years. But the fish used to be thrown as then Harvard players skated onto the ice. This was good for a couple of reasons: 1) it allowed the rink staff mroe time to clean up the mess before the puck was dropped and 2) it provided for target practice though Harvard took to coming on the ice using the far door (O side).

It's unlikely that we'd get a penalty for fish thrown before intros. We've been doing it for years without getting one (second period is a different story).

BTW - Schafer has always been supportive of the fish tradition as far as I can remember. This isn't the same as the language issue, where he might not want to bring his kids to the rink if there was rampant profanity.

Do the "Cops" have a soup kitchen??? Maybe we could start one for them ... throw fish as well as the toys. This way they can be twice as generous during the holiday season giving toys and a tummy full of fish chowda!

Lynah has been significantly quieter than normal this year, most likely because we've had such a frustrating start to this season. Getting rid of fish at the Harvard game is just going to make things worse. If they are really gung ho about the toy drive, why dont they make everyone who brings fish, also bring a toy? Then we could put the toys in the collection box and the fish on the ice (only before the first period, of course).

Although I initially thought that tradition of fish throwing should continue, upon rethinking and accepting the Coach's strong recommendation I think that the following is correct synposis of ice the puck is correct:

I respect tradition as much as anybody. So throw your fish, take the penalty, Harvard scores, Harvard wins by one goal, Harvard wins the ECAC by a point or two, we do not win the play-offs

Does anyone know what the actual players think? If they don't want to risk a penalty, I don't think that we should overrule the Toy Suggestion

I always forget that the fish tradition is harmless until a few morons decide to throw more fish after the start of the first - probably from the same kids who had their keys out at the Mercyhurst game The bear mascots have already stopped throwing candy this season because people have been throwing it back on the ice.

The rink has also been quieter than normal simply because, with the exception of the Mercyhurst game, we haven't been able to score first. Giving up a goal in the first five minutes just takes the crowd out of it a little bit.

Yup. The Mercyhurst game was our first home lead of the season...can you say frustrating? "'The frustration continues to build,' said Schafer." That said, I still have faith.

Dave wrote:
Well, season ticket holders got this article in the form of an e-mail, and it was signed by Gene Nighman.

I received no such e-mail.

Beeeej

Wasn't it in '96 (or '95) when some Moore-on threw a fish on the ice at the start of the second, and they scored on the PP to win 2-1?

I think a toy drive is a great idea, but they're on crack if they think that they can use that as an excuse to get us to stop hucking fish.

JohnnieAg'99 wrote:

Wasn't it in '96 (or '95) when some Moore-on threw a fish on the ice at the start of the second, and they scored on the PP to win 2-1?

February '95, the last Harvard game of the pre-Schafer era, and the last in the long RS winless streak. And it's time once again for my annual posting the Fish Report Link:
[www.amurgsval.org]

[www.uscho.com]

In case you think Cornell Athletics has a monopoly on this kind of thing, Syracuse University recently banned the playing of Gary Glitter at the Carrier Dome for precisely the same reason (please pardon the gross link -- hopefully this still works):

[216.239.37.104]

I'm of the opinion that the profanity adds nothing to GG and it's not an infringement of anybody's God-given rights to ask (or even demand) that it be stopped. However, if GG does end up being banned, exactly how long do you think it will take for the Faithful to start humming/singing the song themselves? One second? Two?



Post Edited (12-05-03 12:04)

Bill Fenwick wrote:
However, if GG does end up being banned, exactly how long do you think it will take for the Faithful to start humming/singing the song themselves? One second? Two?

And you can bet more people would use the profanity-laden version out of spite if it comes to that. Hell, I'd switch back.

i started a thread on uscho if anyone is interested.

[board.uscho.com]

Does anyone know/remember that the old tradition for the Harvard game was to tie a chicken onto the harvard goal and let it die there in the second intermission? I wonder how they ended that one?

allison wrote:

Does anyone know/remember that the old tradition for the Harvard game was to tie a chicken onto the harvard goal and let it die there in the second intermission? I wonder how they ended that one?

As I recall, the SPCA got involved in ending that one. I don't remember when exactly that happened (sometime in the early '90s, I think), but I do recall that the first Harvard game after that featured a guy in a chicken suit being tied to the Harvard goal. Too bad that died quickly

BTW, I don't think the chicken was left there to die, though it probably didn't survive being stuffed in an overcoat or whatever for two periods, being hauled out onto the ice and tied to a goalpost, then being untied and carted off to who knows where...

Bill Fenwick wrote:
though it probably didn't survive being stuffed in an overcoat or whatever for two periods, being hauled out onto the ice and tied to a goalpost, then being untied and carted off to who knows where...

to a nice pot of soup of course....

Hmmm. Chicken soup.

[q]exactly how long do you think it will take for the Faithful to start humming/singing the song themselves? One second? Two?[/q]

Yes, that would happen, but there's no way it can match the energy produced by the Pep Band's playing of the Rocky/GG combo.

It's a pretty severe measure, but I think Athletics is feeling backed into a corner. They've said that they don't want profanity, and whether people agree or disagree (and, no, let's not have that discussion again), Lynah is Athletics' "house" and they get to make the house rules. Pleading hasn't worked. Ejections haven't worked. So now we may lose the Rocky/GG 3rd period welcome back for our team. If this doesn't work, Athletics' next ploy is probably going to be even more aggressive.

[Q]to a nice pot of soup of course....

Hmmm. Chicken soup.[/Q]

Chicken soup for the Hockey Fan's soul?

Hey, I wonder if they make the band stop playing GG, then Coach will have to start declining the PPs so no one will be able to say A**hole? (not that I'm promoting it that is.)

Jason N '95 wrote:

[q]exactly how long do you think it will take for the Faithful to start humming/singing the song themselves? One second? Two?[/q]

Yes, that would happen, but there's no way it can match the energy produced by the Pep Band's playing of the Rocky/GG combo.

So the band will play "Gonna Fly Now" and then people will sing Gary Glitter (and more people will say "fuck". As it is the second "verse" gets sung a capella anyway.



Post Edited (12-06-03 11:43)

[q]So the band will play "Gonna Fly Now" and ... [/q]

The way the Athletics announcement reads, the Rocky theme may bite the dust, too. But my point was (and you may not have been disagreeing with me) that an all a capella start to the third period will not have nearly the energy generated by the Pep Band's playing.

And if the student section retalliates by using more profanity, I believe Athletics will respond in kind and ultimately Lynah will be worse for it. I'm not choosing sides here as to who is right, but I do thing that in this battle Athletics will "win" and the Lynah experience (an important recruiting tool) may be irreparably diminished --didn't something similiar happen at Colgate several years back?

Jason N '95 wrote:

I'm not choosing sides here as to who is right, but I do thing that in this battle Athletics will "win" and the Lynah experience (an important recruiting tool) may be irreparably diminished --didn't something similiar happen at Colgate several years back?

Starr has a noticeable problem with heavy drinking before/at the games in the early 90's. The fans, not the players. It will come as no surprise that there was also a lot of profanity.

When the administration started making moves to curb crowd behavior (by throwing out the offenders), they failed to differentiate between the soused and the sardonic. There was much chest-thumping on both sides, and the "Draconian Measure --> Adolescent Protest" cycle escalated until the crowd had been knee-capped.

In contrast, Lynah saw the beginnings of that sort of m.a.d. in the mid 80's, but cooler heads prevailed, in large part because the AD was Laing Kennedy, who understood the tradition of the crowd.

If the ECAC didn't care and the administration was just polishing a few SS buttons that would be one thing. But in this case the ECAC, probably in response to repeated complaints from a certain Cantab, has apparently made this a point of emphasis. As with all points of emphasis, eventually people will remove the pole from their behinds, the hystrionics will pass and the tradition will re-establish itself. But in the meantime, take a one year pass on the fish, come earlier, yell louder, and be unrelentingly critical of the Harvard coach's Mazzculinity. It must be giving him problems for him to be so cranky.



Post Edited (12-06-03 15:05)

Greg Berge '85 wrote:

In contrast, Lynah saw the beginnings of that sort of m.a.d. in the mid 80's, but cooler heads prevailed, in large part because the AD was Laing Kennedy, who understood the tradition of the crowd.

"Cold" War at Lynah?