[OT] Pendergast Fired

I don't think this comes as a shock to anyone.

[cornellbigred.ocsn.com]

Josh Herman '99 wrote:

I don't think this comes as a shock to anyone.

[cornellbigred.ocsn.com]

Certainly not anyone following this thread ... [elf.elynah.com]



Post Edited (11-25-03 20:17)

Oops! Was it already there?

Matt Carberry beat you by about 3 hours.

[elf.elynah.com]

Yeah, obviously it was in the Dartmouth/Cornell/PTI thread about Keggy the Keg. Don't you know where to find these things??

P.S. Go after Jim Fassel

<waving> Ahhhh.... See you....

Just don't go after Buddy Teevens at Stanford (Buddy is a two-sport Dartmouth grad: football and hockey), but look at his coaching record at Stanford...

It is unfortunate that this had to come. Tim is a great guy, a person who really cared for his players and the program. You can not measure his success simply by results on the field. This reminds me of when George Siefert had no success and was let go then when on to lead the 49ers to the Super Bowl. Until the University commits to the football program no coach is going to succeed. We have substandard facilities, a minimal budget, and assistant coaches left over from the dark ages. I know it was Tims job to produce a winner and unfortunatley that did not happen, however I will go on record as saying who ever replaces him will have no better luck. Good luck Cach Pendergast in all your future endevours.

I echo Rich's sentiment and wish Pendergast well. I remember him from his first tour at Cornell in the early 80s and can atest that he's a swell guy.

[Q]You can not measure his success simply by results on the field.[/Q]

I realize he was a decent person, but coaches are hired specifically for getting results on the field.

[Q]We have substandard facilities, a minimal budget, and assistant coaches left over from the dark ages. I know it was Tims job to produce a winner and unfortunatley that did not happen, however I will go on record as saying who ever replaces him will have no better luck.[/Q]

Mangurian's facilities and budget couldn't have been any worse than Pendergast's, but Mangurian brought the team within one game of an Ivy title the season before Pendergast took over. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Pendergast brought in his own coaching staff when he took the reins. And I can't imagine that his replacement won't do better than he has...his record was less than .250 over three years and he didn't win a single Ivy game this season.

Cornell's football program doesn't exist to win. It's there because you have to have one -- an ornament, like Harvard's classrooms.

As far as institutional commitment goes, to football I say "no thanks." Winning Football takes a gazillion dollars and at Ivies (well, other than Penn) winning football programs tend to lead to "reappraisals of the role of sports in student life," which is blah blah blah for cover you ass and cut all sports before the inevitable scandal and sanctions.

I'll take a 1-9 football team, 6-20 hoops team, and NCAA tourny hockey team every year, thanks.

Coaches may be a good, decent, or nice persons, but may not be able to properly motivate or inspire their players. The results on the field are merely a symptom of something deeper. Take Mike Schafer's appointment: he was able to bring a group of kids, mainly recruited by Brian McCutcheon, from near the bottom of ECAC to the top (and beat Harvard!) in one season. Nothing changed (no bigger budget, no facility upgrade, etc.) except a different man in charge...While I don't demand an Ivy League championship of our football team, we should remember that there was a glorious history in this sport as well (Ed Marinaro, Derek Harmon). I think we (the alumni) and our students (players or not) deserve to have a team with better than a 1-9 (0-7 Ivy) record. And if our AD thinks that a new coach (and a new coaching staff) is what it takes, then I support the decision. But I go agree with Greg: I'd take an ECAC (better yet, NCAA) tournament championship anyday

So is Greg saying he wants us to be a laughingstock, like Columbia used to be, so that the school's failures in the two highest profile college sports overshadows any accomplishments in any of the other lesser-known sports (including hockey)?

Pendergast was a good guy, at least back in the 80s when I knew him, and a good position coach, but most of the people who I know that follow the program were surprised at his selection to take over as the head coach. In any case, although I don't for sure what the relative budget and commitment to the football program is now as compared to in the past, the sense I got was that Mangurian left, in part, because he saw the writing on the wall as far as the level of support from the administration.

In a world of limited resources, choices need to be made, obviously. But if it is those choices that has led to the lowly status of the football program, I think it was a mistake. A successful football team builds campus spirit greatly, because capacity at Schoellkopf isn't as limited as at Lynah. It was FUN to go to games in 1986, when we met Penn in a battle of undefeateds for the Ivy title and especially fun in 1988 when we beat Penn in the final game to tie for first place in the Ivies. Sure, it's not like Michigan or the OSU, but football games in the fall can have a sense of being an "event", even in Ithaca.

And re: Buddy Teevens. I'm not sure what he's been doing at Stanford, but he was a heck of a coach at Dartmouth and a nice guy to boot.

CUlater '89 wrote:
It was FUN to go to games in 1986, when we met Penn in a battle of undefeateds for the Ivy title and especially fun in 1988 when we beat Penn in the final game to tie for first place in the Ivies. Sure, it's not like Michigan or the OSU, but football games in the fall can have a sense of being an "event", even in Ithaca.

Heck, it was even fun in 1989 when we beat Penn on Thanksgiving to stay out of the Ivy League cellar, but more importantly to salvage a miserable season with a win over our arch-rivals.

As someone who didn't miss a game at Schoellkopf in four years, I agree with CULater on "event" status. With the band marching across campus and through the Straight, it was a thrill to run up the stairs of Okenshields, fall in line, and follow them to the stadium.

BTW, for a snapshot on my perspective on Ivy football in general, see the following radio script from several years back:
[www.amurgsval.org]

Cornell is close to completing the fundraising for an $8 million renovation of Schoellkopf Hall. The bottom line is winning games. Losing every
Ivy contest by more than a touchdown should never be acceptable.

Buddy "I played two sports at Dartmouth" Teevens was hired as Stanford's football head coach after Tyrone (not Ty) Willingham abruptly departed for Notre Dame two years ago. Fall 2002 saw the Cardinal dropping from 2nd place in the PAC-10 to a dismal 2-9 overall (1-7 Pac-10) record, losing to Cal in the Big Game for the first time in seven year. With one game left in the 2003 season, Teevens again lost the Big Game last week, going 4-6 overall. In his two years on the Farm, Coach Teevens has not beaten a team with a winning record.

You do the math. I hope for Cornell's sake, we are not dazzled by "Stanford" on Buddy's resume.

Well, if Tyrone (not Ty) Willingham keeps losing to USC by 20 points every year...

Greg is saying that the football and hoops teams should try to win all their games, and the administration should try to help them as long as it don't screw up anything that actually *does* win, including but not limited to, hockey.

Of course, Greg would also say fold the entire athletic department to finance the hockey program. He's like that.

We could get Steve Spurrier. He should be looking for a job soon (and yes, I'm a Redskins fan).

The Fun-n-Gun would be an interesting addition to the Ivy mileux.

Don't hold your breath...Buddy Teevens worked for Spurier for three years:
"Teevens was on Steve Spurrier’s staff at the University of Florida for three seasons (1999-2001) prior to coming to The Farm. Teevens was the running backs coach at Florida in 1999. In 2000, he was the passing game coordinator while also coaching tight ends, wide receivers, kickers, snappers and holders. In ’01, he was the Assistant Offensive Coordinator and tight ends coach."

We have not seen any "Fun and Gun" at Stanford. In fact, the offense is either missing or downright unimaginative. Just look at the stats from our game against Oregon State two weeks ago. My point is this: Just because Spurier coached one way at Florida does not mean he (or people who learned from him) will do the same at another team.



Post Edited (11-26-03 14:39)

Tom Tseng '87 wrote:
Teevens was the running backs coach at Florida in 1999.

Spurrier uses running backs?

John T. Whelan '91 wrote:

As someone who didn't miss a game at Schoellkopf in four years, I agree with CULater on "event" status. With the band marching across campus and through the Straight, it was a thrill to run up the stairs of Okenshields, fall in line, and follow them to the stadium.

BTW, for a snapshot on my perspective on Ivy football in general, see the following radio script from several years back:
[www.amurgsval.org]

Also agree. My 4 years of football were memorable ones. If hazy memories serve me right, I believe that CU had a chance to clinch a championship in 2 of the 4 seasons from Fall '92 - Fall '96 by simply beating Penn. And CU went 0-4 those years vs. them. I remember in Fall '94, we started 6-0 out of the gate, helped by a miracle 48-yard FG at the gun to win at Bucknell, only to finish by dropping the last 4 games. But the buzz that that 6-0 start got was great. West stands became packed!

As JTW outlined in his script, the '95 season was really exciting. We got our first win over Columbia (!) in those 4 years (11-11-95, the greatest day in my CU sports life). That, and an upset Yale win over Princeton that day opened the door to clinch a championship with a win at Penn out of nowhere. I believe there was a chance for a 4-way Ivy tie. That whole week was great simply because of the war of words that the Daily Sun and the Daily Pennsylvanian had. "Dear DP, what's the quickest route from Franklin Field to the Schuylkill River if one were to carry say...a goalpost shaped object?" And then we got our dreams dashed by (another) blow-out to Penn (sucks) while their students threw bread products at us. I blame the failure to win a championship that year on the opening day loss to Princeton, where with a 2-point deficit, CU QB Joyce fell down in the mud on a 4th-and-short situation just outside FG range after an inspired drive. Oh, that hurts.

Those Hoeffer-coached teams were definitely championship caliber. Lazor, Mateo, Zingo, Levitt. Good memories.

OK, ramblings and reminisces aside, my point is that being in the football hunt is exciting and memorable, and can make the wait for hockey season a little more bearable. This season, we weren't really in any of the Ivy games. And the Penn game was clearly the Men vs. the boys. In general, parity in the Ivy League is a very good thing, IMO.

A few other names that have been suggested to me are:

Don Zimmer
Bobby Knight
Janet Reno
The "Yeah Dougie Yeah" guy from Section B

A decent football team deosn't preclude a good hockey team.
Marinaro's big game against Harvard [cornellbigred.ocsn.com]
came in a year that hockey fans can't complain about. A team doesn't need to win a championship every year, but it shouldn't be embarrassed every year either.

But if you are serious about Cornell football, you don't look back to Marinaro and Harmon, or even Gogolak. A year or two ago we were talking with an aunt who was under the impression that Cornell was in the Big Ten. My wife and daughter held their giggles for the moment, but in private let them out. I had to explain that it was a natural mistake for someone who had attended University of Michigan in a year when Cornell had beaten UM in football but had not followed the sport since. Wasn't that the last time that Schoelkopf was filled for a football game? In those days Cornell was beating Ohio State, too. Ohio State was said to be especially chagrinned the first year in Columbus when they learned that half the starters were in the Hotel School, then part of the College of Home Economics: "You mean we've been beaten by a bunch of home eccies?" Then Cornell did again the next year in Ithaca.

The peak was probably the Gil Dobie era. Check out the "points for" and "points against" in the perfect seasons of 1921, 1922, and 1923.

[cfbdatawarehouse.com]

Yes, a long time ago, but two of those teams were voted #1.

Josh Herman '99 wrote:

Tom Tseng '87 wrote:
Teevens was the running backs coach at Florida in 1999.

Spurrier uses running backs?

Hell, even Andy Reid is running the ball this season...

[q]The peak was probably the Gil Dobie era.[/q]
Agreed.

Maybe i'm just bored, but spending a little time at that football database, it becomes clear that the little known fact about Cornell football remains true: CU is the only school in the country to hold an all-time winning record over BOTH Michigan AND Ohio State. Regardless of the fact that the last time we played either of them was like 1952. . .

Also a winning record against Penn State, Pittsburgh, Michigan State, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech, among the schools you often see highly rated these days. And tied for 15th place in the number of national championships.

It is the considered judgment of New Hampshire Big Red fans that the next coach could very well be Jackie Sherrill; formerly of the SEC and the Pittsburgh area.

Another bit of that football tradition: There is only one team that has a winning record against both Michigan and Ohio State, and they wear red. Not as improbable as it would be today, but even when these teams were on each other's schedules in the 30's and 40's, the Cornell game was considered a mismatch.

Ninian wrote:

Not as improbable as it would be today, but even when these teams were on each other's schedules in the 30's and 40's, the Cornell game was considered a mismatch.

By whom?

I still think Jim Fassel is the best choice

ice the puck wrote:
I still think Jim Fassel is the best choice

Or Spurrier. Experience as a college coach and (IMO) more likely to be fired.

[Q]Cornell is close to completing the fundraising for an $8 million renovation of Schoellkopf Hall. The bottom line is winning games. Losing every
Ivy contest by more than a touchdown should never be acceptable.[/Q]

What... I think they made a lovely venue for graduation.

Article in today's Sun discusses candidates for the open position:

[cornelldailysun.com]

Among the candidates is Trinity College coach Chuck Priore. Trinity's 2003 record is here:

[www.trincoll.edu]

I vote for Jim Knowles '87. He is a classmate of mine, a friend, and a heck of a nice guy.