Cornell @ Clarkson, 2/23

RichH

Dafatone

RichH
Holy crap, this freaking thread.

Trotsky

Dafatone
Has Clarkson always done that stupid bell sound effect on hits?

It's stupid.

Not that I remember. It is idiotic.

Just for 67 years or so. [potsdamgreeks.blogspot.com]

(edit: I see JTW entered the room earlier to already lay this down)

Trotsky
These guys are pretty bad homers. I am used to Clarkson having much better announcers.

Yes, the color kid was a yippie green nobody, but the PBP was none other than Bob Ahlfeld, voice of Clarkson since 1996. One of the more respected announcers in the league for two decades. [www.nyhockeyonline.com]

The fact that even Trotsky lost a handle on the historical tidbits here is a little staggering.

The bell isn't new. Playing the bell sound effect during play for hits, though? I don't remember that.

I started going there in the early nineties. Trust me when I say that they ring it mostly for big hits, but also for moments in games where Clarkson also happens to show “grit” or whatever. Maybe we’ve only noticed it because the crowds aren’t as loud recently. Maybe they didn’t ring it as much. Maybe Clarkson has just sucked more.

Also, this is the second time you’ve called it a “sound effect.” It’s an actual bell rung by students/alumni. Cheel isn’t piping in any sound effects. Same with the way-too-over-the-top goal whistle: an actual steam whistle a member of the band has typically “played.”

Do they still have an electric bass player with an amp? (Also not "piped in", but amplified at least.)

RichH

Dafatone

RichH
Holy crap, this freaking thread.

Trotsky

Dafatone
Has Clarkson always done that stupid bell sound effect on hits?

It's stupid.

Not that I remember. It is idiotic.

Just for 67 years or so. [potsdamgreeks.blogspot.com]

(edit: I see JTW entered the room earlier to already lay this down)

Trotsky
These guys are pretty bad homers. I am used to Clarkson having much better announcers.

Yes, the color kid was a yippie green nobody, but the PBP was none other than Bob Ahlfeld, voice of Clarkson since 1996. One of the more respected announcers in the league for two decades. [www.nyhockeyonline.com]

The fact that even Trotsky lost a handle on the historical tidbits here is a little staggering.

The bell isn't new. Playing the bell sound effect during play for hits, though? I don't remember that.

I started going there in the early nineties. Trust me when I say that they ring it mostly for big hits, but also for moments in games where Clarkson also happens to show “grit” or whatever. Maybe we’ve only noticed it because the crowds aren’t as loud recently. Maybe they didn’t ring it as much. Maybe Clarkson has just sucked more.

Also, this is the second time you’ve called it a “sound effect.” It’s an actual bell rung by students/alumni. Cheel isn’t piping in any sound effects. Same with the way-too-over-the-top goal whistle: an actual steam whistle a member of the band has typically “played.”

Huh, good to know. Maybe it stands out more cause the lack of crowd, yeah.

And it really sounded like a piped in effect to me. I know there's an infamous actual bell, but it sounded faker to me than usual. Then again, I guess I don't usually notice it, so I'm not sure what "usual" is.

Weder
They ring it for big hits in women’s games, too. Which is sort of interesting because those could in theory wind up being penalties.

I was thinking that same thing during our game. What if there's a borderline hit on our guy and it's in review? That stupid bell ring might just be the psychological tip to the side of it being excessive.

The bell has been there as long as I can remember, like the goddamn train whistle, but I don't remember it punctuating hits. I remember it being disconnected from any particular action, though, so maybe it was sometimes hits, but behind the play and out of frame.

jtwcornell91

RichH

Dafatone

RichH
Holy crap, this freaking thread.

Trotsky

Dafatone
Has Clarkson always done that stupid bell sound effect on hits?

It's stupid.

Not that I remember. It is idiotic.

Just for 67 years or so. [potsdamgreeks.blogspot.com]

(edit: I see JTW entered the room earlier to already lay this down)

Trotsky
These guys are pretty bad homers. I am used to Clarkson having much better announcers.

Yes, the color kid was a yippie green nobody, but the PBP was none other than Bob Ahlfeld, voice of Clarkson since 1996. One of the more respected announcers in the league for two decades. [www.nyhockeyonline.com]

The fact that even Trotsky lost a handle on the historical tidbits here is a little staggering.

The bell isn't new. Playing the bell sound effect during play for hits, though? I don't remember that.

I started going there in the early nineties. Trust me when I say that they ring it mostly for big hits, but also for moments in games where Clarkson also happens to show “grit” or whatever. Maybe we’ve only noticed it because the crowds aren’t as loud recently. Maybe they didn’t ring it as much. Maybe Clarkson has just sucked more.

Also, this is the second time you’ve called it a “sound effect.” It’s an actual bell rung by students/alumni. Cheel isn’t piping in any sound effects. Same with the way-too-over-the-top goal whistle: an actual steam whistle a member of the band has typically “played.”

Do they still have an electric bass player with an amp? (Also not "piped in", but amplified at least.)

The only electric bass I remember was at RPI during their national title run. It was awesome.

Trotsky

jtwcornell91

Do they still have an electric bass player with an amp? (Also not "piped in", but amplified at least.)

The only electric bass I remember was at RPI during their national title run. It was awesome.

Dunno if they still do, but Clarkson definitely had an electric bass player for a few years, maybe several. The guy travelled, too.

Trotsky

Weder
They ring it for big hits in women’s games, too. Which is sort of interesting because those could in theory wind up being penalties.

I was thinking that same thing during our game. What if there's a borderline hit on our guy and it's in review? That stupid bell ring might just be the psychological tip to the side of it being excessive.

The bell has been there as long as I can remember, like the goddamn train whistle, but I don't remember it punctuating hits. I remember it being disconnected from any particular action, though, so maybe it was sometimes hits, but behind the play and out of frame.

I wrote in 1997

I never saw the Bell in its heyday, but it would have been more impressive if they hadn't rung it at seemingly random times ("Yay, we completed a pass at the red line!".

The Clarkson overtime goal. A Clarkson takeaway in our end, and that's all she wrote.

[billhoward.smugmug.com]

in the coaches notes. something about a handpass on the clarkson goal they tied it up?

upprdeck
in the coaches notes. something about a handpass on the clarkson goal they tied it up?

They reviewed it for a hand pass. The puck left the face-off circle and then got knocked back in. Clarkson's center was down on his hands and knees, and the puck appeared to hit either his stick or his closed hand around his stick and then squirt back to the d-man. Held up on review.

coach said they reviewed for goalie interference not a hand pass. I dont think hockey looks at everything in a review like football does.

upprdeck
coach said they reviewed for goalie interference not a hand pass. I dont think hockey looks at everything in a review like football does.

[youtu.be]

Slow down this video to .25 speed and watch the tying Clarkson goal. Can someone explain how this isn’t a hand pass? The Clarkson player pushes the puck backwards to a teammate with his hand.

I guess the coaches must have only realized it was a hand pass when watching the play the following day. Otherwise, seems like the challenge likely would have succeeded.

So, losing in OT on the road vs Clarkson instead of winning is worth how much RPI? Hopefully the season doesn’t come down to this blown call/missed challenge.

BearLover

upprdeck
coach said they reviewed for goalie interference not a hand pass. I dont think hockey looks at everything in a review like football does.

[youtu.be]

Slow down this video to .25 speed and watch the tying Clarkson goal. Can someone explain how this isn’t a hand pass? The Clarkson player pushes the puck backwards to a teammate with his hand.

I guess the coaches must have only realized it was a hand pass when watching the play the following day. Otherwise, seems like the challenge likely would have succeeded.

So, losing in OT on the road vs Clarkson instead of winning is worth how much RPI? Hopefully the season doesn’t come down to this blown call/missed challenge.

Watching it in real time, it looks like the puck just hits the player’s stick rather than his hand. But in slow-mo, clearly looks like the hand. Easy to see how this was missed in real time. It is possible it hit the player’s stick, but still looks like a hand motion to me, all things considered.

it all matters but if we had won the game in Reg we would still be in 16th though closer to 15. the same for Sat nights game.

Win both nights though we would be in 11th

upprdeck
it all matters but if we had won the game in Reg we would still be in 16th though closer to 15. the same for Sat nights game.

Win both nights though we would be in 11th

Funny to think the Clarkson game didn't have much impact... because the SLU tie was so bad it doesn't matter.

upprdeck
it all matters but if we had won the game in Reg we would still be in 16th though closer to 15. the same for Sat nights game.

Win both nights though we would be in 11th

The goal is to get an at-large bid by the end of the season. Thus, the difference in RPI for winning/losing is what matters, not whether we are 15 or 16 in a particular weekend before the end of the season. For example, at this point in the season it is much better to be 16th and a minuscule amount behind 12th than it is to be 15th with a huge gap before 14th. So the important question here is how much RPI we lost.

Sometimes, I think that in an effort to be more objective, we’ve replaced sound judgement with pernicious metrics. Case in point, we’ve replaced “smoke-filled” rooms with unrepresentative primaries, and look what we got, but I digress.

Back to important stuff. Some teams start slowly and peak at the right time, others peak too early. Tournament inclusion and seedings should take account of this. Human judgement, that is the selection committee, could ameliorate this to some degree. If two teams end up with similar metrics, give the edge to the team that finished stronger.

Here’s a thought. Calculate a metric at season’s end for each team’s entire season and also for its final half, then average the two. This would account for the team’s entire body of work, but also acknowledge its improvement or decline.

I’m quite pleased with this team overall and thankful of the bye weekend before the home ice playoff weekend, especially since the coach stated that guys are still sick.
Excited to see how this young team grows.
We were discussing this morning on who we think is the most understated yet effective player -too many come to mind. Haven’t settled that discussion as of yet

Win the next 4 home games and then see what is what.. There is a good chance by then that winning the first night in Lake Placid is enough. How ever Quin losing anyplace along the way adds another dynamic as does the B10/HE/or ND not winning the NCHC. we could be up to 12th and still not get in..

BearLover

upprdeck
coach said they reviewed for goalie interference not a hand pass. I dont think hockey looks at everything in a review like football does.

[youtu.be]

Slow down this video to .25 speed and watch the tying Clarkson goal. Can someone explain how this isn’t a hand pass? The Clarkson player pushes the puck backwards to a teammate with his hand.

I guess the coaches must have only realized it was a hand pass when watching the play the following day. Otherwise, seems like the challenge likely would have succeeded.

So, losing in OT on the road vs Clarkson instead of winning is worth how much RPI? Hopefully the season doesn’t come down to this blown call/missed challenge.

OT loss on the road is

1.2 * 0.33333 = 0.400

OT tie on the road is

1.2 * 0.5 = 0.600

adamw

BearLover

upprdeck
coach said they reviewed for goalie interference not a hand pass. I dont think hockey looks at everything in a review like football does.

[youtu.be]

Slow down this video to .25 speed and watch the tying Clarkson goal. Can someone explain how this isn’t a hand pass? The Clarkson player pushes the puck backwards to a teammate with his hand.

I guess the coaches must have only realized it was a hand pass when watching the play the following day. Otherwise, seems like the challenge likely would have succeeded.

So, losing in OT on the road vs Clarkson instead of winning is worth how much RPI? Hopefully the season doesn’t come down to this blown call/missed challenge.

OT loss on the road is

1.2 * 0.33333 = 0.400

OT tie on the road is

1.2 * 0.5 = 0.600

And, as I've blathered about before (and could be wrong), the opponent quality doesn't matter if you flip it unless the opponent is a team good enough to grant a quality win bonus (I think).

So OT loss @clarkson and OT tie @slu is the same as OT tie @clarkson and OT loss @slu.

Dafatone

adamw

BearLover

upprdeck
coach said they reviewed for goalie interference not a hand pass. I dont think hockey looks at everything in a review like football does.

[youtu.be]

Slow down this video to .25 speed and watch the tying Clarkson goal. Can someone explain how this isn’t a hand pass? The Clarkson player pushes the puck backwards to a teammate with his hand.

I guess the coaches must have only realized it was a hand pass when watching the play the following day. Otherwise, seems like the challenge likely would have succeeded.

So, losing in OT on the road vs Clarkson instead of winning is worth how much RPI? Hopefully the season doesn’t come down to this blown call/missed challenge.

OT loss on the road is

1.2 * 0.33333 = 0.400

OT tie on the road is

1.2 * 0.5 = 0.600

And, as I've blathered about before (and could be wrong), the opponent quality doesn't matter if you flip it unless the opponent is a team good enough to grant a quality win bonus (I think).

So OT loss @clarkson and OT tie @slu is the same as OT tie @clarkson and OT loss @slu.

Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

adamw

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

and the answer is .0056 -- which is quite a bit

adamw

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

A most dangerous tool for the “if only” crowd here. It’s a gateway to insanity, I tell you!!

adamw

adamw

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

and the answer is .0056 -- which is quite a bit

Well, let’s hope Cornell doesn’t miss the NCAAs by .0056 RPI or less…

RichH

adamw

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

A most dangerous tool for the “if only” crowd here. It’s a gateway to insanity, I tell you!!

Many of us don't need another door.

BearLover

adamw

adamw

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

and the answer is .0056 -- which is quite a bit

Well, let’s hope Cornell doesn’t miss the NCAAs by .0056 RPI or less…

I'm not sure it was actually a hand pass. The puck hit the center in the hand (I think) but he didn't really push or throw the puck. Would that count?

Dafatone

BearLover

adamw

adamw

BearLover
Sorry, yeah—the question I’m asking is how much higher our RPI would be if we changed an OT loss to a regulation win. I only mentioned Clarkson because the clear outcome of an effective hand pass challenge would have made this hypothetical a reality.

1.200 for straight win - 0.400 for the OT loss ... but then obviously divide by all the games played so far - and that a team's own win% is only 21% of the overall RPI - and it's obviously a tiny amt. of points. But if you want to know exactly - go to CHN's Pairwise, click on "Customize" tab, and change Cornell to a win, and see the difference

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

and the answer is .0056 -- which is quite a bit

Well, let’s hope Cornell doesn’t miss the NCAAs by .0056 RPI or less…

I'm not sure it was actually a hand pass. The puck hit the center in the hand (I think) but he didn't really push or throw the puck. Would that count?

I thought that at .25 speed it looked like he pushed the puck with his hand, but in real time it didn’t. I assume the ruling hinges on whether he pushed the puck or not, but I’m not certain.

fastforward
We were discussing this morning on who we think is the most understated yet effective player -too many come to mind. Haven’t settled that discussion as of yet

My vote right now would be for Devlin or Catalano.

Trotsky

fastforward
We were discussing this morning on who we think is the most understated yet effective player -too many come to mind. Haven’t settled that discussion as of yet

My vote right now would be for Devlin or Catalano.

they certainly get more attention than those two, but I think that kempf and Penney aren’t getting the recognition that they deserve.

Trotsky

fastforward
We were discussing this morning on who we think is the most understated yet effective player -too many come to mind. Haven’t settled that discussion as of yet

My vote right now would be for Devlin or Catalano.

I agree and like when they’re on the line with Kraft - he’s another one that always puts the pedal to the metal. Glad O’Brien is getting time too. Always feel bad for the goalies that don’t get in much but understand why.

It seems that Cornell plays poorly in critical games against teams with mediocre (or worse) records - but plays well against higher-ranked teams. The only reason I can think of to create such an anomaly would be poor preparation and/or poor focus. I miss the old "go-for-the-throat" days of Harkness hockey. For example: In the late 60's I was sitting in bleachers just a few feet directly above the walkway to the locker room at Colgate rink. It was the end of the second period, and Cornell was Clobbering Colgate.The last to pass under my seat on the way to the locker rooms to the locker rooms were Ned Harkness and the Colgate coach.I clearly heard the Colgate coach say "Ease up a bit" - or words to that effect - and just as clearly heard Harkness respond "Go F*** yourself!" Ned was a great communicator.

There goes the neighborhood

There were no humanitarian awards for coaches or players back then.

If I was a visiting coach and Harkness set -- and it couldn't be unset -- the heat to 85 degrees in the visitor locker room, I'd bring a fire axe the second year to improve ventilation, and for year three I'd bring a couple of fans the fire department uses to clear smoke. P.S, You ever seen a concrete-wall saw with a diamond-tip 14" blade? Works right quick.

I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

By my count, we are 4-1-2 against currently ranked teams.

That leaves us at 12-4-4 against currently unranked teams.

George64

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

George, check your link. It seems broken and, consequently, takes us nowhere.

Swampy

George64

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

George, check your link. It seems broken and, consequently, takes us nowhere.

It works for me (on my phone). It takes me to an issue I thought I had already downloaded and was looking for a few months ago, but couldn’t find. A friend of mine is on the cover!

Thanks!

Swampy

George64

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

George, check your link. It seems broken and, consequently, takes us nowhere.

It works, but as a pdf download not a browser tab.

Swampy

George64

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

George, check your link. It seems broken and, consequently, takes us nowhere.

My PC automatically blocked it but with an option to download it anyway.

George64

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

I'm the brown smudge behind the penalty box in the photograph on page 24.

ACM

George64

osorojo
I was hoping for a cogent explanation (or excuse) for current Cornell Men's hockey pitiful record against opponents ranked 20th best - or worse! I only mentioned past Cornell Ice Hockey glory because I still cherish memories of the Lou Mobbs and Paul Patton and Ned Harkness days.

Of course, I remember Paul Patton and Ned Harkness, but Lou Mobbs was only a vague memory, so I searched the Cornell website and came across this article from the January/February 1993 Alumni News.

I'm the brown smudge behind the penalty box in the photograph on page 24.

Oh, that brown smudge!

Lou didn't get much recognition, but he ran a tight ship at Lynah. His employee, Jimmie, got more recognition at the end of the first and second periods. Fond memories of the old days of C.U. Men's D 1 Varsity Ice Hockey and its accomplishments - and hope you and I can get to see the Big Red once again lead U.S. College Hockey!