Fish N Fowl 11/11/23

Quick. Find a child.

Best game of the year, can’t wait.

Trotsky
Quick. Find a child.

Or an incontinent grandparent.

Alright. What can we throw that isn't an "object".

Dafatone
Alright. What can we throw that isn't an "object".

Shade!

Dafatone
Alright. What can we throw that isn't an "object".

A subject.

These might work with the clear bags...

A bunch of people still do the throwing of the newspaper before game play and they didn’t seem to mind that.

ER
A bunch of people still do the throwing of the newspaper before game play and they didn’t seem to mind that.

Correct. But the fish are way harder to clean up and dangerous etc. Clearing newspapers has been mastered for speed and efficacy; guts n eyeballs not so much.

abmarks

ER
A bunch of people still do the throwing of the newspaper before game play and they didn’t seem to mind that.

Correct. But the fish are way harder to clean up and dangerous etc. Clearing newspapers has been mastered for speed and efficacy; guts n eyeballs not so much.

I think though the administration can't say it, they're actually fine with the fish too. Fish when Harvard first takes the ice works, gets cleaned up, and to the best of my knowledge has never resulted in a penalty. It's the idiots who hold their fish until later, and then throw them at the start of the second period, or in response to a bad call, etc. that results in problems.

Every year, we hear the same admonishments about zero tolerance of fish, blah blah blah. At this point, it too is part of the tradition.

Sullivan Mack back as the extra skater.

If we can beat Harvard tonight they will be winless in their first 5 ECAC games.

We will be fine if we keep playing this way. I have never seen us outskate Harvard this dramatically.

The goals will come.

Cameraman shooting an art house movie. Lots of shots of peaceful, vacant ice while play is on.

Trotsky
We will be fine if we keep playing this way. I have never seen us outskate Harvard this dramatically.

The goals will come.

All Devlins are welcome here.

Shane has given up two soft goals that I saw coming. Not sure what is going on with him

ER
Shane has given up two soft goals that I saw coming. Not sure what is going on with him

He didn't look great on either goal but his defense needs to be better. I don't know what the PK was doing on Gaffney's rush.


This is definitely one of the weaker Harvard teams in a while, but they're outplaying the home team. That needs to change in the next two periods

SOG are 11-4 in our favor. I wouldn’t say we are being outplayed but they are taking better advantage of their opportunities. We are matching their energy tonight. Or maybe they are matching ours.

ER
SOG are 11-4 in our favor. I wouldn’t say we are being outplayed but they are taking better advantage of their opportunities. We are matching their energy tonight. Or maybe they are matching ours.

arugula

ER
SOG are 11-4 in our favor. I wouldn’t say we are being outplayed but they are taking better advantage of their opportunities. We are matching their energy tonight. Or maybe they are matching ours.

Great atomosphere. Millers goal was a snipe. Second goal should’ve been saved. Shane should’ve had the second one. The analytics say we are winning.

The first goal looked like a pop up fly to me and I’m sitting about 20 yards away

Walsh hit looked bad TBH. Might get 5 + GM.

Double minor we were lucky.

Great kill. Maybe there is the momentum swing.

Is the camera work different tonight than last night? Feels like I am watching from 10,000 feet. Or my eyesight is just going

snert1288
Is the camera work different tonight than last night? Feels like I am watching from 10,000 feet. Or my eyesight is just going

Same angle but keeps lagging behind the play.

Harvard sweaters with ugly font, particularly the numbers.

ER
The first goal looked like a pop up fly to me and I’m sitting about 20 yards away

I’m sitting next to that goal. Looked like he picked a corner.

Seems like Ted Donato has Schafer sussed out

This game feels like a lot of unforced errors. Eye test shows we are the better team. Need a big third period.

Trotsky
Harvard sweaters with ugly font, particularly the numbers.

Letters are straight across instead of arched. Numbers are some weird idea of what the 1990s thought was futuristic. #13’s jersey looks like it reads “Harvard B”

One of our long term tendencies under Schafer is that we have to work hard for our goals and we hang onto the puck until there’s a clear opportunity and by the time we shoot it is well anticipated. It’s a bit too much thinking and not enough flow.

Please just shoot the puck.

Ok but still we have twice the shots on goal

Would be nice if they stayed out of the box.

5x3 for 1:45. This is the chance.

Great first 40 seconds on that advantage; too bad.

Mullahy has been the better goalie, even as our shots haven’t tested him enough.

Shane has made up for his softies with those big saves.

About as frustrating as it gets tonight. No puck luck, decent oppo goalie, and a lack of offensive chemistry.

We're a very good, very young team. There will be frustrating games like this one where we outplay the other team save for a few breakdowns.

Maybe we can take a page out of Sucks' playbook and make our power play look more like theirs does. Move around more. Without the puck, with the puck. We just pass it station to station without any movement.

Last 8 Fish N Fowls: L L W W T T L L

shafer
Mullahy has been the better goalie, even as our shots haven’t tested him enough.

As long as I've been watching these Harvard/Cornell games, it's the same story of a random Harvard goalie looking better than he typically is. Very rarely is Cornell running away with a lead in these games.

Meanwhile, that's 0-5-2 in the last 7 against Harvard if the broadcast is to be believed.

First two Harvard goals were on terrible mistakes by Cornell which led to two of Harvard’s best players skating in on Shane all alone. I don’t really fault Shane, neither was close to a gimme save, though Harvard’s goalie made some saves in similar spots.

The offensive talent of Cornell is apparent, but the team lacks cohesion. I don’t know if the freshmen need to bulk up or something but we aren’t winning battles for pucks, even against the scrawny Harvard kids. I think the defensive position is a weak link; I don’t see anyone creating offense other than Robertson. I don’t see us taking good shots or making good passes from the point like Malinski or Mitchell did.

Cornell had almost two full minutes of 5x3 both Friday and Saturday and didn’t score. That‘s the biggest reason for the very bad weekend.

By the way, do people use the new Slack channel? Seems like at least half the posters continue to post here during the game, so the outcome of the Slack channel may have been to divide the community in half.

BearLover
First two Harvard goals were on terrible mistakes by Cornell which led to two of Harvard’s best players skating in on Shane all alone. I don’t really fault Shane, neither was close to a gimme save, though Harvard’s goalie made some saves in similar spots.

The offensive talent of Cornell is apparent, but the team lacks cohesion. I don’t know if the freshmen need to bulk up or something but we aren’t winning battles for pucks, even against the scrawny Harvard kids. I think the defensive position is a weak link; I don’t see anyone creating offense other than Robertson. I don’t see us taking good shots or making good passes from the point like Malinski or Mitchell did.

Cornell had almost two full minutes of 5x3 both Friday and Saturday and didn’t score. That‘s the biggest reason for the very bad weekend.

I’d also like to see Donaldson and Mack in the lineup and getting ice time. We need more poise and experience and maybe they’ll do a better job maintaining possession than some of our other forwards.

Just not good enough this weekend, especially Shane.

BearLover
I don’t see anyone creating offense other than Robertson.

Kraft and Castagna were setting up plays all night, we just couldn't pot them.

My god though Robertson is another species. It's too bad the Cornell single season assist record is Deity because I could see him getting into the 40s with the right offense and a deep run.

chimpfood
Just not good enough this weekend, especially Shane.

But OTOH Shane also made spectacular saves on sure goal chances on both nights. <shrug emoji>

Trotsky

chimpfood
Just not good enough this weekend, especially Shane.

But OTOH Shane also made spectacular saves on sure goal chances on both nights. <shrug emoji>

I’m just never gonna be happy with 5 goals on 38 shots across a weekend. His big stops tonight seemed more like poorly placed shots on good chances than good saves.

chimpfood

Trotsky

chimpfood
Just not good enough this weekend, especially Shane.

But OTOH Shane also made spectacular saves on sure goal chances on both nights. <shrug emoji>

I’m just never gonna be happy with 5 goals on 38 shots across a weekend. His big stops tonight seemed more like poorly placed shots on good chances than good saves.

Opinions vary.

Trotsky

BearLover
I don’t see anyone creating offense other than Robertson.

Kraft and Castagna were setting up plays all night, we just couldn't pot them.

Yeah, I was just talking about the defensemen though.

Why does it seem like every time an opponent is trailing us late and pulls their goalie for the extra attacker, we end up facing a barrage of shots and "close calls", but when we pull our goalie we can barely keep it in their zone, let alone get high-quality SOGs? Do they need to practice 6x5 more often?

Certainly need to practice 5x3 more often…

Scersk '97
Certainly need to practice 5x3 more often…

i was going nuts that there were no efforts to set screens or pass to someone positioned back door. we got shots off but nothing challenging.

ugarte

Scersk '97
Certainly need to practice 5x3 more often…

i was going nuts that there were no efforts to set screens or pass to someone positioned back door. we got shots off but nothing challenging.

Last night was my third in person game of the season. I also watch a ton of NHL and too often forget the yawning gap in skill level between the NHL and the NCAA. So the idea of back door passes, screens, and basketball style cutting is likely too much to ask. My complaint was that the players, at least a lot of them, seem to think they can do those things. As a result, while we outshoot everyone, we should have even more shots. Seeing Ondrej try to nutmeg five feet from the net was insane. Castagna is on his way to driving me nuts with his dithering and over passing and stick handling. Some of the young D too. We should play a very direct game like Bancroft does. Shoot the damn thing, create a rebound and go to the net. 2-3 of the goals last night were scored that way.

I was also surprised (at least in the first period) how easily the Harvard forecheckers (even the smaller guys) were winning puck battles and muscling us around, seemingly out-"Cornell-ing" us. Here's Schafer's take on the power play efforts, from the Sun recap:

“I thought the power play for the first time this year got selfish,” Schafer said. “[They] didn’t really move the puck around and open up seams and lanes … all they wanted to do is just solely shoot pucks.”

arugula

Castagna is on his way to driving me nuts with his dithering and over passing and stick handling.

I mentioned to someone last night that Castagna is reminding me a bit of the Tony Romano experiment, although he can usually at least get the puck into the zone and not automatically turn it over/fall down in the neutral zone like I recall Romano doing frequently.

Despite the disappointing weekend I still feel like the team is ahead of my expectations. For a team with so many first year players playing key roles I have seen plenty of instances where it feels like these guys have been in the system for years. The lost weekend was definitely a team effort. I generally believe that the hallmark of successful Cornell teams is their straight ahead mentality. I saw way too many soft backwards plays in all three zones this weekend that are a departure from that process. The one that sticks out to me the most was in the second period last night where Wallace entered the zone with some room during a change and instead of at least skating it to the corner to wait for reinforcements he sent a blind backhand drop pass to the center of the ice to a waiting Harvard player. Most of the evening our D men lost foot races to spots or to the puck. That happened to Stanley on the first goal and unfortunately to Suda all night. On the second Harvard goal three Big Red players went to the puck carrier and the goal scorer had a free lane to the net. Shane stood tall later in the game but I think he’d like at least one of those first two back. I like Bancroft’s game but he too had his try-to-do-too-much moment when on a power play he tried to enter the zone one on four during a line change and the turnover from the impossible play went back the other way for an easy clear. My last point goes back to Friday. They had a two on oh and a two on one where they didn’t register a shot on goal. Plenty to work on but I see a lot of potential up and down the lineup. Can’t wait to see what they learn from this.

Oops: delete.

sah67
I was also surprised (at least in the first period) how easily the Harvard forecheckers (even the smaller guys) were winning puck battles and muscling us around, seemingly out-"Cornell-ing" us. Here's Schafer's take on the power play efforts, from the Sun recap:

“I thought the power play for the first time this year got selfish,” Schafer said. “[They] didn’t really move the puck around and open up seams and lanes … all they wanted to do is just solely shoot pucks.”

arugula

Castagna is on his way to driving me nuts with his dithering and over passing and stick handling.

I mentioned to someone last night that Castagna is reminding me a bit of the Tony Romano experiment, although he can usually at least get the puck into the zone and not automatically turn it over/fall down in the neutral zone like I recall Romano doing frequently.

Very interesting that Schaf seems to want more passing. I felt like they had many opportunities they passed up to pass more. The pointmen would swoop around and around and do nothing. Volume shooting is not the worst thing if you crowd the net. Goals don’t need to be pretty.

Just back from breakfast. Castagna was in the next booth with Dad lecturing him about his board work. Poor kid.

arugula

ugarte

Scersk '97
Certainly need to practice 5x3 more often…

i was going nuts that there were no efforts to set screens or pass to someone positioned back door. we got shots off but nothing challenging.

Last night was my third in person game of the season. I also watch a ton of NHL and too often forget the yawning gap in skill level between the NHL and the NCAA. So the idea of back door passes, screens, and basketball style cutting is likely too much to ask. My complaint was that the players, at least a lot of them, seem to think they can do those things. As a result, while we outshoot everyone, we should have even more shots. Seeing Ondrej try to nutmeg five feet from the net was insane. Castagna is on his way to driving me nuts with his dithering and over passing and stick handling. Some of the young D too. We should play a very direct game like Bancroft does. Shoot the damn thing, create a rebound and go to the net. 2-3 of the goals last night were scored that way.

Then how come we give one up to BU every time we play them? It's not a complicated thing to think that someone should be trying to position themselves for a screen, deflection or tap-in when the puck is circulating around the perimiter. There's more to life than an open look at the net.

At the same time, for the love of god every time we DID get the goalie out of position with an open net screaming for a goal whoever was closest to it couldn't control the puck. This is less a criticism of the players, since it was often bouncing or on edge, but a desperate plea with the universe to flatten the puck for us.

VIEWfromK
Despite the disappointing weekend I still feel like the team is ahead of my expectations. For a team with so many first year players playing key roles I have seen plenty of instances where it feels like these guys have been in the system for years. The lost weekend was definitely a team effort. I generally believe that the hallmark of successful Cornell teams is their straight ahead mentality. I saw way too many soft backwards plays in all three zones this weekend that are a departure from that process. The one that sticks out to me the most was in the second period last night where Wallace entered the zone with some room during a change and instead of at least skating it to the corner to wait for reinforcements he sent a blind backhand drop pass to the center of the ice to a waiting Harvard player. Most of the evening our D men lost foot races to spots or to the puck. That happened to Stanley on the first goal and unfortunately to Suda all night. On the second Harvard goal three Big Red players went to the puck carrier and the goal scorer had a free lane to the net. Shane stood tall later in the game but I think he’d like at least one of those first two back. I like Bancroft’s game but he too had his try-to-do-too-much moment when on a power play he tried to enter the zone one on four during a line change and the turnover from the impossible play went back the other way for an easy clear. My last point goes back to Friday. They had a two on oh and a two on one where they didn’t register a shot on goal. Plenty to work on but I see a lot of potential up and down the lineup. Can’t wait to see what they learn from this.

Wow, this is probably the most substantive post I have ever read on ELynah. Please keep posting here.

I agree with others who have said the freshmen don’t yet understand how to play within the system. Lots of selfish plays. Some of them almost work (didn’t a Castagna solo effort ping off the crossbar yesterday?) but most of them result in a lost possession. We’re going to be stuck with 7+ freshmen in the lineup this year, so hopefully they can adjust and understand that the hero ball that worked in junior hockey doesn’t work at this level.

This is not an NCAA tournament team right now. Maybe we can get there by the end of the season, but it is going to take significant maturation. The talent is far too raw at the moment.

arugula
I also watch a ton of NHL and too often forget the yawning gap in skill level between the NHL and the NCAA. So the idea of back door passes, screens, and basketball style cutting is likely too much to ask. My complaint was that the players, at least a lot of them, seem to think they can do those things.

The most beautiful goal I've ever seen since I started watching college hockey, was a drop pass from Doug Ferguson to, I believe, Mike Doran at a holiday tournament around 1967 in Boston. On a breakaway, Doug faked a shot and got the goalie moving one way, but actually dropped the pass to a trailing Doran, who put the puck in the open side of the net. The opponent was, IIRC, some school from Michigan and a recent NC. The goal won the game.

In fact, goals assisted to the back door of the net were commonplace during the Harkness years. So, I don't think this is too much to ask of today's players. The problem seems to be that opponents and defenses are better. Or, to put it differently, the gaps between teams are smaller.

Cornell may be more talented, but with small tolerances, everything needs to be more precise. This year's team is not there yet and may never be. So, it relies on other things, like slap shots from the point or opportune rebounds. Not that there's anything wrong with such things, but I do believe the better college teams do make use of backdoor passes, screens (and subtle picks), and well-practiced cuts.

Swampy
The most beautiful goal I've ever seen since I started watching college hockey, was a drop pass from Doug Ferguson to, I believe, Mike Doran at a holiday tournament around 1967 in Boston. On a breakaway, Doug faked a shot and got the goalie moving one way, but actually dropped the pass to a trailing Doran, who put the puck in the open side of the net. The opponent was, IIRC, some school from Michigan and a recent NC. The goal won the game.

[www.tbrw.info]

I heard some Section M (behind the visitor bench) complaints about officiating. Schafer was not happy with the officiating, but that's, ah, not an uncommon situation.

If defense of "it's almost all our fault":

* The puck giveaway on our own blue line and ensuing goal 60 seconds in was a killer. We both got 2 goals after that.
* We hit a crossbar or pipe with a clang louder than the Cornell band tubas
* We could not convert 1:45 on two-up hockey

arugula

ugarte

Scersk '97
Certainly need to practice 5x3 more often…

i was going nuts that there were no efforts to set screens or pass to someone positioned back door. we got shots off but nothing challenging.

Last night was my third in person game of the season. I also watch a ton of NHL and too often forget the yawning gap in skill level between the NHL and the NCAA. So the idea of back door passes, screens, and basketball style cutting is likely too much to ask. My complaint was that the players, at least a lot of them, seem to think they can do those things. As a result, while we outshoot everyone, we should have even more shots. Seeing Ondrej try to nutmeg five feet from the net was insane. Castagna is on his way to driving me nuts with his dithering and over passing and stick handling. Some of the young D too. We should play a very direct game like Bancroft does. Shoot the damn thing, create a rebound and go to the net. 2-3 of the goals last night were scored that way.

The thing that drove me nuts is that the winning goal was more of a Cornell-style goal and not a Harvard-style goal. Back in the more lean-talent years, desperation time meant we had to pack 3-4 players within 5 feet of the crease and then get the puck pinballing around there and maybe fall on an opponent or two. Eventually a carom could slide in. That’s what they did. Harvard worked harder in the tighter corners & crease situations. As the clock ticked down, CU kept the puck far away and tried to blast through traffic.

billhoward
* We could not convert 1:45 on two-up hockey

It’s not that we couldn’t convert that upsets me. It’s that we didn’t come close.

RichH
The thing that drove me nuts is that the winning goal was more of a Cornell-style goal and not a Harvard-style goal.

The whole game was like that. We switched sweaters: Cornell was faster and quicker and Harvard was gumming things up and slowing the pace down.

Trotsky
Harvard sweaters with ugly font, particularly the numbers.

They looked like they were made of white electrical tape.

The winning goal was the one Harvard scored 60 seconds in. After that, both teams traded goals twice.

[edit add:] Here, the goal that broke our back. To me, Cornell never recovered. No, not in the statistical meaning, since it was the third and final goal that ensured victory, thus the rules-official GWG.

wouldnt the winning goal be the one that puts them ahead for good?

upprdeck
wouldnt the winning goal be the one that puts them ahead for good?

As I understand it, the gwg is the goal that is decisive (4th goal in a 4-3 win) even if it wasn't the one that put them in the lead for good. In a 4-3, the gwg would be the fourth regardless of the order of scoring. It's how sometimes an eng can be a gwg.

Some box scores report the goal that put a team up for good as "last lead".

I do see that the have now settled on the goal that means enough to win..