A New Lynah

Ok, I'm fully expecting most of you to think this is sacreligous:

I was thinking how about there are a lot of people who want to come to games that can't get tickets (alumni visiting, more students, etc.) I also experienced many townies who were able to come to the games with their families on the "over the break" games, who thoroughly enjoyed Cornell hockey. So I thought why not:

BUILD A NEW BIGGER BETTER LYNAH
Benefits:
1. New Facilities (locker rooms etc.) these guys deserve.
2. Attract recruits with our new rink.
3. Allow Cornell Hockey to expand to new fans, build a larger fan base, by making more seats available.
4. Allow more students and alumni to get into games.
5. Be able to host the NCAA REGIONALS!!! (ok maybe not that big)
6. Nicer seats (not that I acutally sit) and facilities for fans.
7. Add more here

Harms:
1 and only. The history of the original Lynah, but every stadium comes to that day.

Does anyone agree with me?
Lenny

i agree completely. cornell has the money, and after they spend all their money on a new improved rink, with many more seats, they would get all the money back. they games sell out easy, and if there were more seats i bet you anything those seats would sell in a heart-beat. it equals many more happy fans because they got to see more games, and more money for cornell...12 dollars x how ever many new seats they add = a lot more money from each game. how could they go wrong?

I support it completely.

Of course, you're dealing with one of the 12 people out of 3000 who though that the '82 class gift should be a new zamboni and not campus beautification.

JH

Additional thought - What rich alum will donate the money if nobody will allow them to call it anything but Lynah Rink?

JH

IIRC all we need to be able to host a regional is 4,000 seats. Lynah would need a couple hundred more. I assume, however, that this number is low mostly so that more western sites can host regionals. I doubt very much that the NCAA would put a regional in Lynah when there are several locations in the east that fit more fannies.

I think it is possible to design a building that accomplished most of what you want with only a few sacrifices. It would probably take some fancy architecture and a bunch of money, but I think it is definitely possible. I really don't think the capacity needs to increase at all. With the new regulations the same amount of seating is going to take up almost 1.5 times the current area. I would not want anything to replace lynah unless it is without a doubt better in all aspects. I think that the atmosphere can be maintained as long as the designer knows what aspects of the current architecture contribute to the atmosphere. Lets name some of those: fans are close to the ice, fans are close together, fans (students) are grouped together, low roof, steep steps, lack of sound-deadening material, loud fans, the Big Red Band... keep em coming...

Lack of sound deadening material
Lack of sound deadening material
Lack of sound deadening material

Having seen the change in the noise level between the Spectrum - a concrete monstrosity- and the F.U. center - a softened, fan friendly place - in Philly, the above is THE key thing.

JH

benched seating, not chairs
boards with the "Lynah bounce"

tho for what it is worth I am against a new rink unless it seats at least 1000 more without changing the current lynah atmosphere at all



Post Edited (04-14-03 18:29)

Has anyone build a new rink at the D1 level or above in the past 10 years without a high ceiling and a suspended scoreboard?

Although building a new rink would be great, I love the fact that Lynah is small. Everyone is close together. It feels like one big family cheering on their favorite team. Although I was not able to get season tickets and didn't see all the home games, its the fact that the atmosphere in such a small arena is so exciting that I didn't really mind not seeing all the games. If it were a bigger place there is a good chance that not all the seats would be as good and fans, even though the place would be packed, could feel spread out. If everyone who wanted to go to games got tickets, it wouldn't be as special. Just a thought. All-in-all though, I would support a new and bigger rink.

alex

Wow, where have you all been when this has been discussed before. If we do this, what kind of seats do you want to stand on?

Please, you can't rebuild without completely changing Lynah's character.

As far as recruitng, I've yet to hear a player complain about Lynah. Maybe there are some who would rather play in a mini-NHL rink, but we are not likely to get them anyway.

There are current proposals from the CHA and others to try and enclose the open end and push out the sides so that the walkway is moved outside the present wall. That would allow easier exit and flow, as well as more concessions. At the current open end there could be a "booster" (CHA) room overlooking the rink. But no suites. The only problem with this proposal is if we have to bring the seating up to code, then we wolud have to start over and lose the closeness

Maybe Clarkson and BU need that type of rink, but we need to keep our character and tradition. I know all things come to an end, but what we have serves us well.

Jim Hyla '67 wrote:

...I know all things come to an end...

When the roof collapses in the middle of a home game.



Post Edited (04-14-03 19:07)

When the roof collapses in the middle of a home game.

With fifth generation Fuscos skating below.

Leveling Lynah is the worst thing you could ever do to Cornell hockey. I will defer to Schafer here: Lynah isn't going away, nor should it.



Post Edited (04-14-03 19:30)

They could easily renovate lynah just a little bit by eliminating the parking lot and making the seats go all the way around. That would also probably give them more space for the locker room stuff which I know Schafer used to complain about.

To address the issue of a hanging scoreboard while maintaining the low ceilings. Imagine a roof line kind of like DIA, except supported externally by steel. This would create low ceilings at the periphery of the rink, and a ceiling high enough in the middle to accommodate the height of a score board. The score board would be visible from all locations as long as the engineers were careful enough to make sure the slope of the roof is tangent to the sight line from the farthest and highest viewing position in the rink. I think it would look pretty cool when in the rink to see no supports. I bet the material would make for a loud rink. Just an idea...

[Q]Felix said:

They could easily renovate lynah just a little bit by eliminating the parking lot and making the seats go all the way around. That would also probably give them more space for the locker room stuff which I know Schafer used to complain about.[/Q]Felix, please reread my post. That was my whole point, although doing might not be possible because of needing to bring it up to code.

Central scoreboards --> speakers --> piped in music -->

If they ever do wrap the seating around the open end without ruining the rink, we must have some clever engineering types who can design angled, flat screen scoreboards in the corners, oriented towards center ice and readable from every point in the building. I have heard Lynah needs 176 additional seats to qualify for an NCAA regional bid, but given Ithaca's rural location I seriously doubt that would ever happen.

[q]Central scoreboards --> speakers --> piped in music -->[/q]

I would like to think Athletics values our Pep Band more than that.

That's what I'd like to think.

Personally, I think Lynah is just the right size. Another 1000 seats would mean plenty of empty seats on a far too regular basis. It's very myopic to judge our seating needs on this year- they'll never be higher. Despite that, if I'm not mistaken, it was actually pretty easy to get a ticket to the non-Harvard games this year. Besides this forum, there were often people selling outside the rink before game time. Also, you could walk right up to the ticket window in the Field House and buy one!!!. There were usually a few dozen returned from other schools.

We're not getting an NCAA regional. Minimums, shminimums- the other places that bid easily surpass these and therefore bring in more money. I won't even get into the issues of parking, concessions, etc.

I'm not anti-change. If renovations could be done to enhance the experience for the players (new new locker rooms, training space, etc.) and fans (wider concourses, a *few* more seats, a booster area at the end to reunite the students through section C, whatever) without leveling the place, I'd be all for it. But as Jim pointed out, that's pretty much a legal impossibility.

Adam J. Doyle wrote:
When the roof collapses in the middle of a home game.

Under the weight of too many banners.

Greg wrote:
I have heard Lynah needs 176 additional seats to qualify for an NCAA regional bid [...]

164. They already added 12 the last time they renovated.

Rebuttal:

1. New Facilities (locker rooms etc.) these guys deserve.

I have no idea how good/bad the facilities are. I do think the lousy visiting locker room should be considered a feature, not a bug.

2. Attract recruits with our new rink.

Our old rink does a fabulous job recruiting players as it is (when they see a game).

3. Allow Cornell Hockey to expand to new fans, build a larger fan base, by making more seats available.

What new fans? This is Ithaca we're talking about here. I doubt there's any untapped market out there for Cornell hockey.

4. Allow more students and alumni to get into games.

nice idea in principle, but those who really want to go can pretty much always find tickets as it is.

5. Be able to host the NCAA REGIONALS!!! (ok maybe not that big)

Not a chance that it will ever happen. Too many other suitable places in the east. Even if we built a 6,000 seat arena (which would be a disaster on many levels), the lack of hotels and easy access to Ithaca would likely doom any bid. Not that Cornell couldn't or shouldn't try to host somewhere like Rochester or Binghamton...

6. Nicer seats (not that I acutally sit) and facilities for fans.

Nicer seats brings other problems that I'll mention in a bit. No prblem in principle with better facilities for fans, but that's not a compelling reason to me (I've never bought food at Lynah).

7. Add more here

OK, I will:

As someone mentioned, a new "Lynah" would probably need to be 50% bigger just to have the same capacity, in order to meet fire codes, make room for bigger seats, etc. Bigger (per capita) almost certainly means less noise and atmosphere, no matter what you do. Bigger also means further from the ice. If built to current codes, I suspect the back row of Lynah would be much further from the action. IMNSHO this is a major negative. One of the great things about the college game is how close you can get to the action.

In terms of seating, I don't think there's a real need for more seating. Sure, it's a little tough to get tickets now. We had a top ranked team this year. While I hope and pray that Schafer will field Top 5 teams forever, realistically we'll have some years where we're only fighting for an ECAC first round bye .[Aside: we need an obvious Carnellian colored glasses smiley] Attendance pressure will drop in these years. Don't let recent box scores fool you - there have been plenty of empty seats within memory.

To twist the topic just a bit, I think the way to get more REAL fans in the seats is to change the seating policy - allow the "standing room" ticket holders to take any seats which are unoccupied 15 minutes into the game (i.e., at 7:15 for a 7:00 game.) I'm amazed at how empty sections (other than A & B) are at faceoff, and how people come in at the end of the first period. To be fair about it, this change would have to be publicized before the tickets went on sale.

One of the good features of the General Admission days was that those of us who'd been waiting hours for the game were there to scream for (and at) the teams as they came out for the skatearound. That frenzy level built and built throughout the evening.

As for making serious changes to the structure and seating of Lynah - no way! Why "fix" something that's working so well? Being undefeated at home this season testifies to the greatness of the team, but pays tribute as well to the fans and the atmosphere of the place we all call home. Packing so many fans into so small a space, so close to the ice, helps create Lynah Magic. Great recruiting years help too, but the ability to recruit is enhanced by the atmosphere at the games. Why mess with it?

Ken '71

As I undertand it, the CHA and Cornell have already seen Coach Schafer's plans which pretty much do what you say; expand the locker room to make it possible for teh entire team to dress at once!!! and add seating on the end of the rink. Wouldn't cost that much, and would retain the character of Lynah. Don't know where this stands.

Jim says:

[q]Wow, where have you all been when this has been discussed before. [/q]

I was thinking the same thing myself. The conversation started about 7 messages into the topic Quantifications: [elf.hockey.cornell.edu]

And I thought that I was new around here

Lynah has undergone many successive revisions over the past decade. I don't think they'd be pouring mney into the place for improvements if they were thinking of scrapping it. Among the improvements:

+ Better locker rooms (I don't know how they stack up against the other leading NCAA programs, but they are supposedly MUCH improved from just a fw seasons ago).

+ Better coach/staff facilities (which pretty much reads: any staff facilities).

+ Refurbishment of the roof (there was a time when you couldn't have ice in Lynah for 4 months out of the year because the temperature differential was actually a real structural hazard. This is no longer a problem.)

+ A bunch of aesthetic improvements (new banners, wall nostalgia, etc).


My dream plan for Lynah is this:

(1) The seating/playing area should remain EXACTLY as it is, except section C's seats should be replaced by benches and the section revert to students. Never lose a prospect to a more intense game atmosphere.

(2) Once the players leave the ice, their experience should be on par with or better than it would be at Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, or any other national caliber program: the very best facilities, lockerrooms, training rooms, the works. Never lose a prospect to a better Nautilus machine.

(3) There should be even more tradition/success paraphrenelia, and recent championships and achievements should be given greater prominence, without devaluing the historical stuff. Hang the two NCAA banners at center ice with spot lights on them as the Holy Grail to aspire to, but also hammer in that this team has done a lot JUST last year, and this is no dinosaur -- it's alive! Never lose a prospect to a slicker promotional campaign.

When the players visit for a game, walk them through the player/prep area and let their eyes pop out with all the great eye candy, "we belong at the top," he-man stuff. Then stand them behind the boards as the crowd roars and the players come on. Shock and awe.



Post Edited (04-15-03 12:08)

Greg,

Outstanding post! I couldn't have said it better and can't agree more.

One point - can someone ask our CURRENT players what they think/what they thought when they were being recruited? I'm real curious to hear what they have to say.


Cheers

So, the ideal situation seems to be:
On the one hand, have enough seats for every fan who wants to attend a game.
On the other hand, don't have any empty seats.

The answer seems clear: about a day or two before a game, look at how many tickets have been purchased, and maybe factor in an extra hundred or so. Then, the day of the game, the ceiling is lowered down to fill in the top part of the bowl, so that all the empty seats are above the ceiling, and the rink seems full.

Well, ok, maybe that might be a little costly. But it would sure impress other ECAC fans.

[q]Greg said:
Shock and awe[/q]

You have put new meaning into this phrase. I like it. If Pentagon or CNN has not trademarked it, I'd like to see it on the Cornell programs next season



Post Edited (04-15-03 14:33)

Hey all,
First of all, I'm sorry I started a topic that was discussed before. I guess I missed it.
I just wanted to see what everyone thought about this. I still think there are positives and negatives.
I would like a compromise where we could fit a few more seats in and keep the old lynah. I think some extra renovations would be nice too.
But the building does have history.... and it does still "work"
Lenny

RedJeff wrote:
One point - can someone ask our CURRENT players what they think/what they thought when they were being recruited? I'm real curious to hear what they have to say.

Not going to name names, but I know of one player who decided not to attend one of those unpleasant Boston schools in favor of Cornell after seeing a game at Lynah.



Post Edited (10-22-03 16:04)

Of course, the facilities at Lynah are in a different category than the atmosphere at Lynah. That's the reason the top recruits are the ones invited to the Harvard game.

According to one guy who has helped with recruiting for 20 years, the facilities do matter (and have impacted recruiting in the past -- not just official visits, but also when junior teams play at Lynah), just as the atmosphere matters. That's why this coach and the past coaches have always looked for ways to improve the facilities without damaging the Lynah atmosphere. And as other have also pointed out, there are plans in existence for this which are being discussed.

Greg wrote:
(1) The seating/playing area should remain EXACTLY as it is, except section C's seats should be replaced by benches and the section revert to students. Never lose a prospect to a more intense game atmosphere.

Are you allowing for a grandfather clause that would allow us young oldsters to keep our spots in C if we're willing to stand with the young'uns?

(3) There should be even more tradition/success paraphrenelia, and recent championships and achievements should be given greater prominence, without devaluing the historical stuff. Hang the two NCAA banners at center ice with spot lights on them as the Holy Grail to aspire to, but also hammer in that this team has done a lot JUST last year, and this is no dinosaur -- it's alive! Never lose a prospect to a slicker promotional campaign.

Before they re-made the banners, they were all white aside from the two red national championship banners, which really stood out. Since they're using the red/white color code to distinguish men's from women's titles, the 1967 and 1970 NC banners just look like all the rest. I'd like to see a white border added to them, so they stand out better (perhaps also making them slightly bigger). I'd also prefer if we got rid of the banners for every NCAA Tournament appearance, perhaps replacing them with Frozen Four banners (which would only mean taking down 1986, 1991, 1996, 1997, and 2002 if my reckoning is correct--all but one of those years has other banners anyway), but I don't suppose that's likely to happen until we run out of real estate in the rafters.

John T. Whelan '91 wrote:

I'd also prefer if we got rid of the banners for every NCAA Tournament appearance, perhaps replacing them with Frozen Four banners (which would only mean taking down 1986, 1991, 1996, 1997, and 2002 if my reckoning is correct--all but one of those years has other banners anyway), but I don't suppose that's likely to happen until we run out of real estate in the rafters.

Also 1981. I like this idea as well.



Post Edited (04-15-03 15:45)

John T. Whelan '91 wrote:

Before they re-made the banners, they were all white aside from the two red national championship banners, which really stood out. Since they're using the red/white color code to distinguish men's from women's titles, the 1967 and 1970 NC banners just look like all the rest. I'd like to see a white border added to them, so they stand out better (perhaps also making them slightly bigger). I'd also prefer if we got rid of the banners for every NCAA Tournament appearance, perhaps replacing them with Frozen Four banners (which would only mean taking down 1986, 1991, 1996, 1997, and 2002 if my reckoning is correct--all but one of those years has other banners anyway), but I don't suppose that's likely to happen until we run out of real estate in the rafters.

Since every ECAC championship banner automatically comes with an NCAA tournament banner, I see how it's somewhat redundant to hang both for a given year.

However, it's a major accomplishment to make the tournament without receiving the autobid, since that means that the team ranked in the national top 16. Take last year... would you have the 2002 team merely recognized by an Ivy Title?

The presence of real fan support does play into the decision. I had the chance to speak to Jon Gleed's mother while waiting to get into the stands in Buffalo. She said that for a player seeing a game at Lynah while being recruited is a major influence on their choice.

JH

Not to mention that recruits are much more likely to value NCAA tourney participation over any other factor represented by a banner (particularly when they're being recruited by non-ECAC schools).

[Q] Take last year... would you have the 2002 team merely recognized by an Ivy Title?[/Q]
And 1991 wouldn't even get that.

I'm surprised no one has metioned this, but I have thought lot about it after losing to St. Lawrence 2 years in a row and to Haaavaad in Lake Placid. The olympic sized ice there seemed to really tired out some of our guys' legs out there, compared to teams that at leats play on nHL sized rinks.

While I think that Lynah's smaller ice surface gives us a great advantage seeing as we are a hard hitting checking team, we seem to be at a big disadvantage when we go to play at bigger rinks for regionals.

This is why I think that if we want to field a better team for tournament play, the ice sould be NHL sized so that our guys are used to skating more and playing on a large ice surface.

Any thoughts on this?..I mean obviousl I would never want Lynah to change at all...I love how close we can be to the action and how loud it can get...but in a perfet world..wouldn't we want our guys better adapted to play on the larger ice surfaces seen in the Tourney?

Rob

While the steep, close seating may make it seem otherwise, Lynah *does* have NHL size (200 x 85) ice. Now, if you were suggesting we should play on Olympic ice, I'd have to kill ya .

-Fred

Wow...I guess I've just always heard and thought that Lynah was smaller...

Oh well I'm a moron..

oh and yeah I wasn't in any way suggesting olympic size

Lynah seems to "play small"... the closeness of the crowd, the intensity of the players... Maybe the boards are loose and the puck gets stuck in the corners a lot, I dunno. Lynah has always felt more cozy than any ice except the old Gahden.

The ice at Lynah is 200x85, which is NHL size (though I suppose I haven't actually measured it myself...) But does anyone know the radius of curvature of the corners? A rink can be normal size along the main axes but small due to very rounded corners.

While I wish I had two more seats so I could bring my kids to games, I think that Lynah is probably the right size rink. If it were larger to the point that seats were easy to come by, then the commitment required to get seats would drop, the true fans would be diluted, and the Lynah experience wouldn't be the same.

I think the fact that the same students are in the same coveted seats game after game adds a lot to the creativity and ritual of the place. Its almost like the ritual of having to wait in line and make a commitment helps breed Lynah faithful.

Build a rink for 3824 fans, and you get 3824 fans all the time. Build a rink for 6000, you might get 6000 fans for Harvard, and a half empty, apathetic rink most of the time.

I think adding seats on the scoreboard end, and making the facilities world class for players makes a ton of sense.

Keith K '93 wrote:
A rink can be normal size along the main axes but small due to very rounded corners.

A la the old Boston Arena prior to Northeastern's renovating it. There were no corners.

Maybe I'm not such of a moron...although I shouldn't kid myself

This issue of the corners probably wouldn't be explained unless we actually wentand measured ourselves. Much like the green monster that says it's at least 300ft away from home plate while most players and managers wil agree its no further than 290ft.

Ahh home ice

Adding seats to the scoreboard side?
Does anyone know how this would work. This was my original idea. But, it seems there is a huge concrete wall. How could we make more seats with the building collapsing?
Any architects/engineers?

[Q] Adding seats to the scoreboard side?
Does anyone know how this would work. This was my original idea. But, it seems there is a huge concrete wall. How could we make more seats with the building collapsing?
Any architects/engineers?
[/Q]

Been said before and will be said again, you cannot majorly change any part of Lynah without having to redo it so that it's up to code, which has already been more or less agreed upon that being up to code is a Bad Thing. Not to be a killjoy, but barring Lynah beginning to crumble around our ears, there aren't going to be any major renovations in the forseeable future.

Let me ask a different question.

If you put seats where the scoreboard is, where do you put the scoreboard? There's no way the roof can hold a big four-sided video screen, can it?

JH

The current plan being discussed includes a scoreboard in the middle, above the ice. I'm not sure how much of a structural problem that would be.

Also, regarding bringing Lynah up to code, does anybody here know for sure what would trigger the code requirement? Obviously, some work has been done in the past without triggering it. Additionally, Cornell could apply for a variance.

The single easiest way to recruit players is to take them to Tribute to Seniors night. My friends and I were talking about this after The Tribute in 2000, and it just seemed like a no-brainer. Of course, that was by far the best game I ever saw at Lynah - we beat Princeton on a late goal by Ladocuer, who went top shelf while sliding on his ass after being hauled down on a breakaway. This was after we had THREE goals called back and Moynihan had been stopped on a penalty shot.

The tribute was insane, too, as six idiots in the front of section A (oh wait, that was me and five friends ) had painted each of the seniors names and numbers on their backs and "CORNELL" on their chests (with a "C" for Steinstra and an "A" for Moynihan), and were starting chants of each senior's name as they circled the ice.

Then AFTER the tribute, when all the players and their families were still on the ice, Arthur announced the playoff pairings for the ECAC first round, telling us the 1 vs. 10, 2 vs. 9, 3 vs. 8, and 5 vs. 6 matchups before telling us that "next week at Lynah rink, the #4 seeded Cornell Big Red will host the #7 seed... (pause) Harvard."

That's when the roof damn near came off the place. Me being a senior myself, I was ridiculously excited that I had two more wins over Harvard to look forward to as an undergrad. But back to my point (I did have one, I think ) - even though this game was particularly special, even your ordinary Tribute to Seniors game has to be the best recruiting tool available. From the fan appreciation to the family involvement, I don't see how a recruit could see that and NOT seriously consider Cornell.

Sully '00 wrote:
we beat Princeton on a late goal by Ladocuer, who went top shelf while sliding on his ass after being hauled down on a breakaway.

[www.hockey.cornell.edu]

Sully '00 wrote:
This was after we had THREE goals called back and Moynihan had been stopped on a penalty shot.

[www.hockey.cornell.edu]
[www.hockey.cornell.edu]
[www.hockey.cornell.edu]
[www.hockey.cornell.edu]

Age, you are wonderful!

I'm digging up an old topic here, but I noticed this article by the associated press on bigger hockey arenas. I kinda doubt that there would ever be a 15,000 seat arena built in Ithaca, but it's certainly an interesting thought.

[www.usatoday.com]

Chris, consider yourself smacked for even entertaining such a thought. A 15,000 seat arena for Cornell? Even if we could fill it, it would be horrible. Horrible, I tell you. Long live Lynah Rink!

Keith needs to relax...

Consider me second in line to smack Chris (cue scene from Airplane!)



Post Edited (10-16-03 21:16)

Can anyone remind me why the second and third goals were disallowed? I'm sure I was at the game, but the old memory banks don't always work they way they should. They sure looked good to me.

Can anyone remind me why the second and third goals were disallowed in that Princeton game? I'm sure I was at the game, but the old memory banks don't always work the way they should. They sure looked good to me.



Post Edited (10-17-03 01:11)

Felix said:

They could easily renovate lynah just a little bit by eliminating the parking lot and making the seats go all the way around. That would also probably give them more space for the locker room stuff which I know Schafer used to complain about.

IMHO that's the best solution. More seats without a lot more seats, same atmosphere, same closeness (forget about dumbass suites!). They could jack up the roof a little bit perhaps, but I would definitely not be in favor of the cathedral ceiling/suspended scoreboard look so many other arenas have adopted. Clarkson's new one may be comfy, but I much preferred the banging on the rafters to that miserable steam whistle they have now.

Clarkson isn't all that comfortable. A few of the soulless neomonstrosities are cushy (Conte), but a seat's a seat.

Screw comfort -- I want noise and history.

Please review all that has been said about this before. It's not so easy to just enclose the end. The town could require that the whole rink be brought up to current code. That means increasing the space between rows and seats, thus completely changing the rink.

Greg Berge '85 wrote:
Clarkson isn't all that comfortable. A few of the soulless neomonstrosities are cushy (Conte), but a seat's a seat.

Doesn't Cheel have cupholders?

What is it you find uncomfortable about Cheel? They have done a very good job at displaying history on Cheel's walls and with the banners.

Is it Walker, nee Clarkson Arena? No...not the same ambience for sure. But Walker had become outmoded, and too expensive to maintain. As I have pointed out before, Clarkson needed a new "student center" on the hill campus, and Cheel Arena is just one part of the Cheel Campus center. Point is that the two needs coincided, and there were additional concerns to be addressed besides the arena.

Walker is still in use, by the way.

Personally I find the Maalox green walls uncomfortable

Hmm... I have to say that one thing I like about Cheel is how the arena is integrated into the campus center.

That paint is foul, though.

Individual seating instead of benches stinks. Actually, now that I think about it, I guess it's really the modern fire codes that stink. Even if you put benches in a new arena, they still wouldn't let you pack in enough people to get the place really rocking. Still, the high, square concrete walls and brightness of Cheel remind me more of a tiled indoor swimming facility than a hockey barn. And that hospital-green paint.... <shudder>

Robb has it completely right. Modern fire codes suck. (I realize I might feel differently if I were actually in a burning building...) Too much legroom, aisles are too wide. Some of the problem is the customers though. I doubt fire codes require seats to be as wide as they tend to be these days but customers apparently want them that way. As a result fewer seats per area => less noise, atmosphere.

Lot's of people seem to rave about hanging scoreboards. They just put one in Achilles at Union. Excuse me - at so-and-so's Rink at Achilles Center. For me they just mean a ceiling that's very high which somehow doesn't contain crowd noise weel enough. Hope we never get one at Cornell.

Cheel would definitely be better if they repainted it in Clarkson green.

I would be happy if developers had installed a section of the old Walker into the Cheel. No need for stinking cupholders when a rafter is nearby.

Keith K '93 wrote:
Cheel would definitely be better if they repainted it in Clarkson green.

Or Carnelian.

Murray?

Mark wrote:

Murray?

I'm thinking LeNeveu.

Al DeFlorio wrote:

Mark wrote:

Murray?

I'm thinking LeNeveu.

For all we know it may be Varteressian. Age certainly isn't going to say.

One of you is right

big red apple wrote:

Al DeFlorio wrote:

Mark wrote:

Murray?

I'm thinking LeNeveu.

For all we know it may be Varteressian. Age certainly isn't going to say.

Perhaps, but I seem to recall an article or such somewhere saying LeNeveu's decision between Cornell and Harvard was...um...rather strongly influenced by the Lynah experience during his campus visit.

huh?

ahh, nevermind, i see.

Al:

You could be right about your goalie hunch, but as I slip on my deerslayer cap and Inverness coat, I seem to remember that BU and Cornell both had an interest in Murray when he was playing for Apple Core on Long Island, in much the same way that both schools were interested in current Terrier defenseman Kevin Schaeffer when he played on the same junior team.
Obviously, Schaeffer doesn't mind living and playing in unpleasant college surroundings.

I also think Cowbell Guy would have referred to the Cantabs in a more direct way, rather than just saying one of the "unpleasant" Boston schools, and to me that translates into one of the three Hockey East teams in the city. Then again, maybe one of Cornell's former/current players had a strong interest in BC before he went to Lynah and was sold on the Big Red, which would be the smartest move he's ever made.

Nope, I meant Harvard

Fair enough, Cowbell, you got me looking on a 3-and-2 changeup.

Mark, you were right about both BU and Cornell being interested in Murray. Reliable sources say that Jack Parker started salivating and yelling incoherently after witnessing Murray crush an opposing player during one of Murray's pre-college games. (On Long Island - the league name escapes me.) Of course, many people believe the drooling and bellowing is Parker's natural state, so maybe the hit simply roused him from a nap.



Post Edited (10-23-03 18:27)

Hey "Mighty" Quinn:

You guys won the recruiting battle for Murray, and BU won the battle for Schaeffer, so as Joe Morgan, the old manager of the Red Sox used to say, "It's 6, 2 and even." What that means is beyond my comprehension. Having Lenny in a BU jersey wouldn't have been so bad, either.

And after all the good things that Coach Parker said about your team following last season's one-sided series at Lynah, you feel the need to crack on him? What unmitigated gall. And, if he was taking a nap, it may have been because he was listening to Mike Schafer's postgame press conference.

I never should've doubted Al, and I guess I figured Cowbell Guy would've been a little more derisive in his description of that school in Cambridge.

Good luck on Halloween Weekend against the Broncos.

Mark wrote:
...so as Joe Morgan, the old manager of the Red Sox used to say, "It's 6, 2 and even." What that means is beyond my comprehension.

That's probably because Joe Morgan is an idiot.

Oh wait, wrong Joe Morgan.

Has anyone considered trying to obtain a code variance from the state/county/town? Seriously, if building codes are the problem, it's possible that Cornell could burn some karma to get an exception from the necessary authorities. I love Lynah, but if they truly can't make any changes (and that means updating the facilities for the players, and potentially adding any capacity to the scoreboard end of the rink), it might be worthwhile to pursue this as another option.

What if they had the exterior walkway, jacked up the roof a little and just added a couple more rows all the way around? Not sure how plausible that would be, but maybe they would be able to get around the building code because a good portion would essentially be a new structure around an existing one. Thoughts?

Or would they even be able to add a couple rows w/out jacking up the roof while doing the exterior walkway and obviously upgrading locker rooms etc.?

I still think there really isn't any need for extra seating, considering that there have been plenty of empty seats in years past. Better to have tickets hard to come by when times are good then to have legions of empties in lean years (see Houston Field Hous). Then again, this year might be a good indicator. If the team can maintain a high level this year after the losses to graduation and the pros then maybe the ticket demand will stay at the high end.

Dave '02 wrote:
What if they had the exterior walkway, jacked up the roof a little and just added a couple more rows all the way around? Not sure how plausible that would be, but maybe they would be able to get around the building code because a good portion would essentially be a new structure around an existing one. Thoughts?

Sounds kinda like what they did at Princeton. Not sure whether that's a good or bad thing.

Keith K '93 wrote:

Then again, this year might be a good indicator. If the team can maintain a high level this year after the losses to graduation and the pros then maybe the ticket demand will stay at the high end.

Actually, I think next year will be a good indicator, assuming that we don't do nearly as well this year as we did last year. If 1000 people still end up getting turned away come ticket campout weekend, I think maybe then we can seriously think to support expansion ideas.

The bad thing they did at Princeton was putting in actual seats. It was a lot more fun when you just sat on the concrete.

JH

It would be detrimental to raise the number of seats too much. In terms of producing the most excitement and the best crowds, demand for tickets MUST, at least somewhat substantially, exceed supply. Walking into Lynah thinking you have a coveted ticket is essential. (Would it be as exciting if you knew you could walk to the ticket office and buy a ticket 2 minutes before game time?)

If the hypothetical market equilibrium price of the ticket at the opening face off is not greater than the price you paid for the ticket, even the most die-hard fan will not be as eager to go to the game. (Such a feeling may be subconcious, but it is definitely there.) Feeling as though you are at a sporting event when other people weren't able to go adds to the aura, the enjoyment and the general mood inside the venue.

Note: I graduated in 99' so the team was pretty good and while Lynah was always sold out, on occasion there were some empty seats. It is imperative that every seat in the house is filled.

I vote no on expanding Lynah more than a few hundred seats, if at all.