This Weekend, Mind Your Qs & Ps

This week's USCHO ECAC column highlights Cornell.

Some quotes:

“Our fans are starved and we’re excited to play back there,” said Cornell coach Mike Schafer, who let out a sigh of relief Saturday following the end of his team’s 2,400-mile road trip, which amounted to 42 hours on the team bus over a 17-day span.


Schafer said Bliss and Tschantz could return after January, if they come back at all, while Kubiak, the team’s leading scorer last season, is day-to-day, but might not get back until after Christmas.


...for Cornell, which scored ten goals in a weekend for the first time in five years.

And for those who still don't think Schafer can change:

Typically one of the biggest teams in the country, the Big Red have taken a different approach to recruiting. Of the five freshman on Cornell’s roster, forward Jeff Malott is the only one taller than six feet.

“The physicality is gone out of the game,” Schafer said. “Everything is gone out of the game. You can’t get into anybody any more, so you have to be quicker and you have to be faster. We want to still play the same kind of hockey; I just think that speed will help us.”

Still, Cornell isn’t entirely abandoning size when recruiting players. Schafer said next year’s incoming freshman class has several players with size in addition to speed.

“Look at Yale, they’ve been a great defensive team,” Schafer said. “They’ve always been a team that’s got great skating speed and they stay above you. It’s teams like that have had success on the national level and that’s where Cornell belongs. We want to get back to that level and to do that, we’ve got to switch up.

“We’re in transition; we’ve got some guys who are good sized, but we’ve got to make a transition and make sure that an ingredient in our recruiting is speed.”

I feel like Schafer has that talk about recruiting smaller/faster every 2-3 years (dating back to the Romano/Milo class) and winds up reverting though

underskill
I feel like Schafer has that talk about recruiting smaller/faster every 2-3 years (dating back to the Romano/Milo class) and winds up reverting though

Maybe, but the world keeps spinning out from under the physical game. Evolve or die.

Trotsky

underskill
I feel like Schafer has that talk about recruiting smaller/faster every 2-3 years (dating back to the Romano/Milo class) and winds up reverting though

Maybe, but the world keeps spinning out from under the physical game. Evolve or die.

With the way penalties are being called now, he really has no choice but to adapt.

scoop85

Trotsky

underskill
I feel like Schafer has that talk about recruiting smaller/faster every 2-3 years (dating back to the Romano/Milo class) and winds up reverting though

Maybe, but the world keeps spinning out from under the physical game. Evolve or die.

With the way penalties are being called now, he really has no choice but to adapt.

I'm hoping the more up tempo style will get the snowflakes' noses out of their phones.

Been a while since Lynah felt like a tough place to play.

scoop85
With the way penalties are being called now, he really has no choice but to adapt.

We haven't really discussed this season's penalty-calling mandate, but I know it has a large number of coaches howling from the North Country to the Western conferences. We have seen this general penalty edict before, as well as much more targeted and specific orders. Like that year when the NCAA officials wanted to make clear they instituted an "obstruction" operator, so every penalty became "Obstruction hooking" or the notably redundant "Obstruction Interference." Eventually, the watchdogs stop paying such close attention (maybe satisfied that the message was delivered) and the refs slowly revert to their instincts and training. I'd estimate it takes about 2/3 of a season for the shackles to be removed.

RichH

scoop85
With the way penalties are being called now, he really has no choice but to adapt.

We haven't really discussed this season's penalty-calling mandate, but I know it has a large number of coaches howling from the North Country to the Western conferences. We have seen this general penalty edict before, as well as much more targeted and specific orders. Like that year when the NCAA officials wanted to make clear they instituted an "obstruction" operator, so every penalty became "Obstruction hooking" or the notably redundant "Obstruction Interference." Eventually, the watchdogs stop paying such close attention (maybe satisfied that the message was delivered) and the refs slowly revert to their instincts and training. I'd estimate it takes about 2/3 of a season for the shackles to be removed.

I'm looking forward to it. I like 5x5 hockey. Five penalties per period is dumb.

Dafatone

RichH

scoop85
With the way penalties are being called now, he really has no choice but to adapt.

We haven't really discussed this season's penalty-calling mandate, but I know it has a large number of coaches howling from the North Country to the Western conferences. We have seen this general penalty edict before, as well as much more targeted and specific orders. Like that year when the NCAA officials wanted to make clear they instituted an "obstruction" operator, so every penalty became "Obstruction hooking" or the notably redundant "Obstruction Interference." Eventually, the watchdogs stop paying such close attention (maybe satisfied that the message was delivered) and the refs slowly revert to their instincts and training. I'd estimate it takes about 2/3 of a season for the shackles to be removed.

I'm looking forward to it. I like 5x5 hockey. Five penalties per period is dumb.

Well, the other way to 5x5 is the players adjust.

Trotsky

Dafatone

I'm looking forward to it. I like 5x5 hockey. Five penalties per period is dumb.

Well, the other way to 5x5 is the players adjust.

I agree with this, to a point. The problem is that some of what the refs seem to be calling this year is really ticky-tack stuff that looks pretty inadvertent. In other words, they are calling penalties for stuff the players couldn't avoid doing, unless they just stopped playing hockey.

andyw2100

Trotsky

Dafatone

I'm looking forward to it. I like 5x5 hockey. Five penalties per period is dumb.

Well, the other way to 5x5 is the players adjust.

I agree with this, to a point. The problem is that some of what the refs seem to be calling this year is really ticky-tack stuff that looks pretty inadvertent. In other words, they are calling penalties for stuff the players couldn't avoid doing, unless they just stopped playing hockey.

That's what I've seen. Many ridiculous calls on incidental contact.

Hi all. This is the weekend of the annual Hajj; swing by section C row 11-ish and say hi to Anne & me.

scoop85

andyw2100

Trotsky

Dafatone

I'm looking forward to it. I like 5x5 hockey. Five penalties per period is dumb.

Well, the other way to 5x5 is the players adjust.

I agree with this, to a point. The problem is that some of what the refs seem to be calling this year is really ticky-tack stuff that looks pretty inadvertent. In other words, they are calling penalties for stuff the players couldn't avoid doing, unless they just stopped playing hockey.

That's what I've seen. Many ridiculous calls on incidental contact.

Based on the only game (@ Yale) I've seen in person, I'm not sure I agree. There were many penalties called, of course, but quite a bit of (legal) physical play snuck through. In general, I'd say that you're going to get called if you're doing something from behind a player, i.e. not moving your skates to get into proper defensive position. Whether a hook, slash, or trip, it's getting called when it comes from behind.

Thinking back over the past—I don't know—forever, we've had defensemen hauled down from behind on the breakout (Harvard, in particular, does this) leading to a goal more than a few times per season. I'm sick and tired of that crap and glad to see it go. And I think we generally play good positional defense, so I think we've adapted and continued to adapt well. Our better teams, of which I think this year's is one, have seen their fair share of clutching, grabbing, and stickwork from behind. Frankly, I think this all might turn out for the better for us, and not just because of Schafer's recognition of the role of speed in recruiting offense…

i dont know if the issue was ever recruiting speed.. i think the issue was wanting size and thus limiting choices on getting guys with speed. everyone wants the bigger fast guys and we were lower on the list for all those types of guys.

Trotsky
Hi all. This is the weekend of the annual Hajj; swing by section C row 11-ish and say hi to Anne & me.

Just saw you on the TeeVee (assuming you're wearing the Chartrand jersey).

I think this is the most icings Cornell has taken in any game so far this year, although that's probably the least of the issues in this game.

This is the first time in years Quin had no clear advantage in play.. they won because they put home a few shots, but cornell had the majority of the better chances.

Cornell was in some pretty good spots to score and lost the puck or shot it wide or made a sloppy pass. that stuff can get cleaned up. It was nice to not be chasing Quin all night and seeing multiple breakaways.

upprdeck
This is the first time in years Quin had no clear advantage in play.. they won because they put home a few shots, but cornell had the majority of the better chances.

Cornell was in some pretty good spots to score and lost the puck or shot it wide or made a sloppy pass. that stuff can get cleaned up. It was nice to not be chasing Quin all night and seeing multiple breakaways.

I have to disagree. I thought that Q was the better team. Their forecheck was not as difficult as usual, but was still a pain for us. Their overall team speed was above us. Their defense almost makes us dump the puck in, but with their speed they would often get to the puck before us. Their passing was also better.

However I thought we were much closer to them than we have been in recent years. They have played a lot more games than we have and we seem to be losing players to injury as fast as we get any back, so they should have looked better, and I thought they did. Hopefully as we mature as a team and get healthier, we'll improve.

Overall I was reasonably happy with the team, we had a good chance to win the game.

As an aside, the other game thread mentioned problems with WHCU. When I left the game, there was no post game program. Did WHCU even broadcast the game?

As last night's game was winding down, I found myself thinking about how I was pretty pleased with how we looked even though we were losing. That fluky third goal broke open what was otherwise a winnable game. It was really too bad. Gilliam looked on; we took few stupid penalties; and we certainly skated with Quinnipiac 5 x 5, coming up with some great offensive pressure. Once Kubiak gets back, we should get even better; if Bliss returns, I'll start to get very excited. (Wedman looked good for a first game back, by the way.)

Now I'm just thinking about how pissed I'll be if we blow it against Princeton. Classic letdown game. Yikes.

Jim Hyla
As an aside, the other game thread mentioned problems with WHCU. When I left the game, there was no post game program. Did WHCU even broadcast the game?

No, not on AM or FM.... The broadcast was busily doing their thing throughout the game, but nothing was coming out onto the air....

My question: Was Jason being heard on the ESPN3 broadcast?

redice

Jim Hyla
As an aside, the other game thread mentioned problems with WHCU. When I left the game, there was no post game program. Did WHCU even broadcast the game?

No, not on AM or FM.... The broadcast was busily doing their thing throughout the game, but nothing was coming out onto the air....

My question: Was Jason being heard on the ESPN3 broadcast?

Yes, it was Jason and the regular color guy, but I noticed that he referred to the broadcast as "on ESPN3 and the Ivy League Digital Network" and didn't mention WHCU. They did also mention looking at the video replay once or twice, so it seems they were just doing a video pbp/color and not radio.

Scersk '97
(Wedman looked good for a first game back, by the way.)

Wedman played both games against Yale/Brown last weekend.

jtwcornell91

redice

Jim Hyla
As an aside, the other game thread mentioned problems with WHCU. When I left the game, there was no post game program. Did WHCU even broadcast the game?

No, not on AM or FM.... The broadcast was busily doing their thing throughout the game, but nothing was coming out onto the air....

My question: Was Jason being heard on the ESPN3 broadcast?

Yes, it was Jason and the regular color guy, but I noticed that he referred to the broadcast as "on ESPN3 and the Ivy League Digital Network" and didn't mention WHCU. They did also mention looking at the video replay once or twice, so it seems they were just doing a video pbp/color and not radio.

Follow-up question: I wonder if this is a contractual situation where, because Jason's play-by-play is being broadcast by ESPN3, it can't be simulcast over the air onto WHCU?

redice

jtwcornell91

redice

Jim Hyla
As an aside, the other game thread mentioned problems with WHCU. When I left the game, there was no post game program. Did WHCU even broadcast the game?

No, not on AM or FM.... The broadcast was busily doing their thing throughout the game, but nothing was coming out onto the air....

My question: Was Jason being heard on the ESPN3 broadcast?

Yes, it was Jason and the regular color guy, but I noticed that he referred to the broadcast as "on ESPN3 and the Ivy League Digital Network" and didn't mention WHCU. They did also mention looking at the video replay once or twice, so it seems they were just doing a video pbp/color and not radio.

Follow-up question: I wonder if this is a contractual situation where, because Jason's play-by-play is being broadcast by ESPN3, it can't be simulcast over the air onto WHCU?

We may get the answer tonight at 6:30.

marty

redice

jtwcornell91

Yes, it was Jason and the regular color guy, but I noticed that he referred to the broadcast as "on ESPN3 and the Ivy League Digital Network" and didn't mention WHCU. They did also mention looking at the video replay once or twice, so it seems they were just doing a video pbp/color and not radio.

Follow-up question: I wonder if this is a contractual situation where, because Jason's play-by-play is being broadcast by ESPN3, it can't be simulcast over the air onto WHCU?

We may get the answer tonight at 6:30.

Checking the Cornell Hockey Schedule page, the game tonight is scheduled to be broadcast on WHCU, and the game last night was a rare game not scheduled to be broadcast.

[www.cornellbigred.com]

sah67

Scersk '97
(Wedman looked good for a first game back, by the way.)

Wedman played both games against Yale/Brown last weekend.

A defenseman like Wedman is at his best when he passes without notice…

Nice comeback tonight.. great pressure that led to goals and not near misses like Friday night..

Some observations from Section E:

Vanderlaan continues to show that he may be the best forward on the team. Even aside from the fluky third goal and opportunistic 4th goal, he was all over the ice.

I really like the growth in Starrett's game. He and Angello seem to play similar games, and I think Starrett will put up a decent amount of points before the season's over.

Bauld and Malott show some nice skill, although both seem to get hit with a penalty or two per game. Kaldis shows some excellent offensive game from the blueline.

Gillam was solid. He made a spectacular save early in the 1st period, and had no real chance on the 1st goal. He was screened on the 2nd goal and never seemed to see the puck. While Princeton didn't have a lot of sustained pressure, their power play was the best aspect of their game, and Gillam had to make a number of good saves.

The injured players and healthy scratches were sitting a bit behind us in Section D. A few guys with splints and other signs of injury. With Kubiak, Buckles and Bliss among those out, I think we're doing pretty well without some of our best players.

I know there's some griping on the other thread, and maybe it's just because I haven't been to Lynah in about 5 years, but I thought the atmosphere was better than the last time I was there. Of course its not the same as it was in the 80's, but then again I don't think it ever will be.

jtwcornell91

Trotsky
Hi all. This is the weekend of the annual Hajj; swing by section C row 11-ish and say hi to Anne & me.

Just saw you on the TeeVee (assuming you're wearing the Chartrand jersey).

I assumed the Greek god physique was the giveaway.

scoop85
I know there's some griping on the other thread, and maybe it's just because I haven't been to Lynah in about 5 years, but I thought the atmosphere was better than the last time I was there. Of course its not the same as it was in the 80's, but then again I don't think it ever will be.

During the third period of the Princeton game the crowd was as good as I have ever heard them. They did The Thing that Lynah crowds at their best do: constant noise even when cheers aren't being led or particular action isn't occurring. Just energy being poured out of the crowd and into the team to help them.

Vanderlaan is ridiculous. The goals were not even his better efforts on the weekend. He can create plays from nothing and he's really starting to get into the opponent's head. Q's only issues were when they were worried about him.

Now we see the real Starrett. He must have never really been healthy last year -- he is an entirely different player now and the draft pick makes sense.

I don't understand how Yates is doing it but please keep doing it.

Kaldis had his first meh game on Friday but that may have been Q messing him up. Still he may already be the best defenseman on the team.

No idea what this team will look like when the injured players return (in time for the bulk of the good opponents).

Vanderlaan has certainly been the best player on the ice for the Red almost every game this season.

BearLover
Vanderlaan has certainly been the best player on the ice for the Red almost every game this season.

He's fun to watch. Heck, the whole team is fun to watch, for the first time in a long time*.

* If challenged I will deny ever saying this. It was the kittens. They have sussed out my password.

Trotsky

BearLover
Vanderlaan has certainly been the best player on the ice for the Red almost every game this season.

He's fun to watch. Heck, the whole team is fun to watch, for the first time in a long time*.

* If challenged I will deny ever saying this. It was the kittens. They have sussed out my password.

"Fun to watch" is a good description. I know I'm not alone in saying that the past few years we'd seen a fair amount of boring hockey. While it's a fairly small sample size, I do see an emphasis on a more up-tempo style, with plays being made off the rush that we haven't often seen lately. Saturday it also seemed the defensemen, especially McCarron and Kaldis, taking a more aggressive role in the offensive zone than I'm used to seeing from our defensive corps.

In the past couple of years I think we would have likely been dead in the water falling behind 2-0 (even against Princeton), but based on our early season performances I had hope that we could come back

scoop85

In the past couple of years I think we would have likely been dead in the water falling behind 2-0 (even against Princeton), but based on our early season performances I had hope that we could come back

I had hope we could come back based on Princeton's early season performance. They were ahead of Clarkson, Harvard and Colgate before losing to all three. They have led in 4 of their 6 losses!

scoop85

Trotsky

BearLover
Vanderlaan has certainly been the best player on the ice for the Red almost every game this season.

He's fun to watch. Heck, the whole team is fun to watch, for the first time in a long time*.

* If challenged I will deny ever saying this. It was the kittens. They have sussed out my password.

"Fun to watch" is a good description. I know I'm not alone in saying that the past few years we'd seen a fair amount of boring hockey. While it's a fairly small sample size, I do see an emphasis on a more up-tempo style, with plays being made off the rush that we haven't often seen lately. Saturday it also seemed the defensemen, especially McCarron and Kaldis, taking a more aggressive role in the offensive zone than I'm used to seeing from our defensive corps.

In the past couple of years I think we would have likely been dead in the water falling behind 2-0 (even against Princeton), but based on our early season performances I had hope that we could come back

They're fun to watch relative to the other teams Schafer has put out there. It's still not the Dallas Stars.

css228

scoop85

Trotsky

BearLover
Vanderlaan has certainly been the best player on the ice for the Red almost every game this season.

He's fun to watch. Heck, the whole team is fun to watch, for the first time in a long time*.

* If challenged I will deny ever saying this. It was the kittens. They have sussed out my password.

"Fun to watch" is a good description. I know I'm not alone in saying that the past few years we'd seen a fair amount of boring hockey. While it's a fairly small sample size, I do see an emphasis on a more up-tempo style, with plays being made off the rush that we haven't often seen lately. Saturday it also seemed the defensemen, especially McCarron and Kaldis, taking a more aggressive role in the offensive zone than I'm used to seeing from our defensive corps.

In the past couple of years I think we would have likely been dead in the water falling behind 2-0 (even against Princeton), but based on our early season performances I had hope that we could come back

They're fun to watch relative to the other teams Schafer has put out there. It's still not the Dallas Stars.

Nor is any other NCAA team. Someone always has to throw water on a "happy" parade.

Look, I think this has been evolving for a number of years. Coach Schafer had his defensemen move into the play for some time. He's said for a few years that the game is changing and that he was trying to recruit players to fill that roll. I think the difference so far this year is one of degree, rather than a dramatic change. He now has a few years of recruiting the type of player that he's wanted. Therefor the change in the style of play is more obvious.

I'm hopeful that the younger players will evolve further and that when we get some of the wounded back, we'll be even better. But remember last season we started strong, Angello was especially so, but we finished weaker. Hopefully that was because of a young team and they'll reverse that trend.

My biggest concern is, why do we have so many pre and early season injuries? Do they practice too hard, or is it a fluke?

Jim Hyla

My biggest concern is, why do we have so many pre and early season injuries? Do they practice too hard, or is it a fluke?

I'm not suggesting the following is the case, but what if a study were done across the Ivy League Schools vs the rest of the NCAA schools, and it turned out that there were significantly more early-season injuries among the Ivies? One might then be able to conclude that the later start, the limitations on practices, etc. isn't actually helping anything, but rather resulting in the players pushing themselves harder, (or the coaches pushing them harder), with the undesired consequence being more early season injuries.

I think this would be an interesting study.

Jim Hyla
My biggest concern is, why do we have so many pre and early season injuries? Do they practice too hard, or is it a fluke?

Two of the injuries don't appear to be in any way related to training, weight room, practice, etc. One is a chronic issue that simply continued to worsen. One was just a dumb mistake.

Injuries seem to be more prevalent now but (1) we probably always think that because of cognitive bias, and (2) players in the past should have been treated more carefully but the vanity of the "Me play through pain, ugh!" posturing was still living in people's heads.

Trotsky

Jim Hyla
My biggest concern is, why do we have so many pre and early season injuries? Do they practice too hard, or is it a fluke?

Two of the injuries don't appear to be in any way related to training, weight room, practice, etc. One is a chronic issue that simply continued to worsen. One was just a dumb mistake.

Injuries seem to be more prevalent now but (1) we probably always think that because of cognitive bias, and (2) players in the past should have been treated more carefully but the vanity of the "Me play through pain, ugh!" posturing was still living in people's heads.

What was the dumb mistake?

Just saw a statistic, and have no idea where it came from, that 62% of injuries to high school athletes happen in practice. Take it for what it's worth.

Jim Hyla

css228

scoop85

Trotsky

BearLover
Vanderlaan has certainly been the best player on the ice for the Red almost every game this season.

He's fun to watch. Heck, the whole team is fun to watch, for the first time in a long time*.

* If challenged I will deny ever saying this. It was the kittens. They have sussed out my password.

"Fun to watch" is a good description. I know I'm not alone in saying that the past few years we'd seen a fair amount of boring hockey. While it's a fairly small sample size, I do see an emphasis on a more up-tempo style, with plays being made off the rush that we haven't often seen lately. Saturday it also seemed the defensemen, especially McCarron and Kaldis, taking a more aggressive role in the offensive zone than I'm used to seeing from our defensive corps.

In the past couple of years I think we would have likely been dead in the water falling behind 2-0 (even against Princeton), but based on our early season performances I had hope that we could come back

They're fun to watch relative to the other teams Schafer has put out there. It's still not the Dallas Stars.

Nor is any other NCAA team. Someone always has to throw water on a "happy" parade.

Look, I think this has been evolving for a number of years. Coach Schafer had his defensemen move into the play for some time. He's said for a few years that the game is changing and that he was trying to recruit players to fill that roll. I think the difference so far this year is one of degree, rather than a dramatic change. He now has a few years of recruiting the type of player that he's wanted. Therefor the change in the style of play is more obvious.

I'm hopeful that the younger players will evolve further and that when we get some of the wounded back, we'll be even better. But remember last season we started strong, Angello was especially so, but we finished weaker. Hopefully that was because of a young team and they'll reverse that trend.

My biggest concern is, why do we have so many pre and early season injuries? Do they practice too hard, or is it a fluke?

I'm talking from a style point of view. This team has been relatively entertaining compared to Schafer's prior strategies but that wasn't a high bar to clear. They also haven't really been good. Their Corsi is only 47.9% at even strength and Fenwick only 48.8%. Do we really have to retread the same ground, or was last year's collapse enough to prove my point that playing a lot without the puck is not conducive to long term success?

css228
I'm talking from a style point of view. This team has been relatively entertaining compared to Schafer's prior strategies but that wasn't a high bar to clear. They also haven't really been good. Their Corsi is only 47.9% at even strength and Fenwick only 48.8%. Do we really have to retread the same ground, or was last year's collapse enough to prove my point that playing a lot without the puck is not conducive to long term success?

OK, Mr. Pro NHL advanced metrics. Let's hash this out. I'm not completely DISAGREEING with you or saying the stats aren't useful, but my stance is that the sample size of college hockey will never be large enough to correlate to these incredibly well to performance. Here's some of top teams in Fenwick, all > 54% (with KRACH listed parenthetically): RIT (41), Yale (51), Mich Tech (37), Wisconsin (20), Providence (29), Bowling Green (30), Northeastern (27), Dartmouth (33). More than half of the top 15 teams in Fenwick aren't registering anywhere close to top 15 in KRACH. Basically I believe that the spread of skill that exists in the NCAA is much broader than in the professional leagues, and it's much more likely for a good Corsi team to have a bad record and vice versa.

Honestly, you're forcing me to look at college Corsi numbers for the first time in any sort of depth, and I'm kind of learning a bit. I don't think it will be anything I'll pay too close attention to going forward, because at this level, it's a boring stat for me. A fun test comes Dec 1-2 when the #1 Corsi team (63%) plays the third worst (40.8%).

RichH

css228
I'm talking from a style point of view. This team has been relatively entertaining compared to Schafer's prior strategies but that wasn't a high bar to clear. They also haven't really been good. Their Corsi is only 47.9% at even strength and Fenwick only 48.8%. Do we really have to retread the same ground, or was last year's collapse enough to prove my point that playing a lot without the puck is not conducive to long term success?

OK, Mr. Pro NHL advanced metrics. Let's hash this out. I'm not completely DISAGREEING with you or saying the stats aren't useful, but my stance is that the sample size of college hockey will never be large enough to correlate to these incredibly well to performance. Here's some of top teams in Fenwick, all > 54% (with KRACH listed parenthetically): RIT (41), Yale (51), Mich Tech (37), Wisconsin (20), Providence (29), Bowling Green (30), Northeastern (27), Dartmouth (33). More than half of the top 15 teams in Fenwick aren't registering anywhere close to top 15 in KRACH. Basically I believe that the spread of skill that exists in the NCAA is much broader than in the professional leagues, and it's much more likely for a good Corsi team to have a bad record and vice versa.

Honestly, you're forcing me to look at college Corsi numbers for the first time in any sort of depth, and I'm kind of learning a bit. I don't think it will be anything I'll pay too close attention to going forward, because at this level, it's a boring stat for me. A fun test comes Dec 1-2 when the #1 Corsi team (63%) plays the third worst (40.8%).

The other problem with using the stats in the NCAA, and especially this early, is that we don't have enough games to make it valid. Aside from needing enough games, it depends upon who the teams have played. Teams play different defenses, and that can change the offensive style. Q often made us dump the puck in by controlling the blue line. Maybe later in the season we'll see a better correlation between outcome and metrics.

Bill has never made a Fenwick post. I find this endlessly amusing.

I'm at work. The bar is low.

Trotsky
Bill has never made a Fenwick post. I find this endlessly amusing.

Funny story on how Corsi got its name because of a rad mustache: [www.tsn.ca]

Actually makes sense when you consider the time spent at practice and the numbers of participants. A football game runs about an hour of actual time with 22 competitors on the field, vs. a two hour practice with most of a 44 man roster involved. I'm surprised it's not higher.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and Donna.

TimV
Actually makes sense when you consider the time spent at practice and the numbers of participants. A football game runs about an hour of actual time with 22 competitors on the field, vs. a two hour practice with most of a 44 man roster involved. I'm surprised it's not higher.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and Donna.

Thanks. And to you and Maggie. Boys, too.

Jim Hyla

RichH

css228
I'm talking from a style point of view. This team has been relatively entertaining compared to Schafer's prior strategies but that wasn't a high bar to clear. They also haven't really been good. Their Corsi is only 47.9% at even strength and Fenwick only 48.8%. Do we really have to retread the same ground, or was last year's collapse enough to prove my point that playing a lot without the puck is not conducive to long term success?

OK, Mr. Pro NHL advanced metrics. Let's hash this out. I'm not completely DISAGREEING with you or saying the stats aren't useful, but my stance is that the sample size of college hockey will never be large enough to correlate to these incredibly well to performance. Here's some of top teams in Fenwick, all > 54% (with KRACH listed parenthetically): RIT (41), Yale (51), Mich Tech (37), Wisconsin (20), Providence (29), Bowling Green (30), Northeastern (27), Dartmouth (33). More than half of the top 15 teams in Fenwick aren't registering anywhere close to top 15 in KRACH. Basically I believe that the spread of skill that exists in the NCAA is much broader than in the professional leagues, and it's much more likely for a good Corsi team to have a bad record and vice versa.

Honestly, you're forcing me to look at college Corsi numbers for the first time in any sort of depth, and I'm kind of learning a bit. I don't think it will be anything I'll pay too close attention to going forward, because at this level, it's a boring stat for me. A fun test comes Dec 1-2 when the #1 Corsi team (63%) plays the third worst (40.8%).

The other problem with using the stats in the NCAA, and especially this early, is that we don't have enough games to make it valid. Aside from needing enough games, it depends upon who the teams have played. Teams play different defenses, and that can change the offensive style. Q often made us dump the puck in by controlling the blue line. Maybe later in the season we'll see a better correlation between outcome and metrics.

The second post here is a much better criticism of my argument. Besides if the sample is too small for Corsi and Fenwick at this point it is definitely too small for a stat like KRACH which depends on outcomes of games, of which there have been far fewer of than shot attempts. But just watch when we don't make the NCAAs again this year. Calling it now. Willing to eat crow if we get in with a top 15 pairwise spot (no points for magical PDO fueled playoff runs).

css228
But just watch when we don't make the NCAAs again this year. Calling it now. Willing to eat crow if we get in with a top 15 pairwise spot (no points for magical PDO fueled playoff runs).

Oh wow, bold. Nobody here is boasting that we're a lock for a top-15 slot. I think most of us would be pleased with being in the bubble discussion, considering the recent seasons. Incremental improvement.

RichH

css228
But just watch when we don't make the NCAAs again this year. Calling it now. Willing to eat crow if we get in with a top 15 pairwise spot (no points for magical PDO fueled playoff runs).

Oh wow, bold. Nobody here is boasting that we're a lock for a top-15 slot. I think most of us would be pleased with being in the bubble discussion, considering the recent seasons. Incremental improvement.

AND MAGICAL RUNS ARE MAGICAL FLAGS FLY FOREVER

RichH

css228
But just watch when we don't make the NCAAs again this year. Calling it now. Willing to eat crow if we get in with a top 15 pairwise spot (no points for magical PDO fueled playoff runs).

Oh wow, bold. Nobody here is boasting that we're a lock for a top-15 slot. I think most of us would be pleased with being in the bubble discussion, considering the recent seasons. Incremental improvement.

We finished ~20 last year in PWR if I remember correctly. Improvement in process would be ~50% ES possession. Improvement in results would basically put us in NCAAs. I see neither of those happening. And FWIW I'll call that we don't do either of those for the next two years as well.

RichH

css228
But just watch when we don't make the NCAAs again this year. Calling it now. Willing to eat crow if we get in with a top 15 pairwise spot (no points for magical PDO fueled playoff runs).

Oh wow, bold. Nobody here is boasting that we're a lock for a top-15 slot. I think most of us would be pleased with being in the bubble discussion, considering the recent seasons. Incremental improvement.

We were the first team out of the tournament two of the past three seasons.

css228
I'm talking from a style point of view. This team has been relatively entertaining compared to Schafer's prior strategies but that wasn't a high bar to clear.

This is the last 4 years of Cornell. Let's not backslide.

Trotsky

css228
I'm talking from a style point of view. This team has been relatively entertaining compared to Schafer's prior strategies but that wasn't a high bar to clear.

This is the last 4 years of Cornell. Let's not backslide.

Even blind squirrels occasionally find a nut.