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Women's Team 2016-17

Posted by Jim Hyla 
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Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: mattj711 (---.jentner.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 10:51AM

andyw2100
Jim Hyla
No, she came at a defenseless player with a hard illegal check. It should be called for what it was. I would hope that even in the men's game, a defenseless check would have been punished. Those are the type of checks that can be career ending, and how can you say that because the next game is an NCAA game, you'll look the other way. If you want to eliminate that type of play, you call it whenever it occurs. She hurt the team and now has to live with it.

It's not often that I disagree with you, Jim, but I'm going to now.

The main issue is that the infraction wasn't called on the ice. It wasn't even called as a major penalty. My concern is the league stepping in, and increasing the punishment so significantly.

As for the Clarkson player being defenseless, she was already engaged with another Cornell player, so it's not as if she was skating in clear ice and was blind-sided. O'Neill did come skating in from some distance away, but as I see it, she basically stopped before cross-checking the Clarkson player. If there was truly "inten to to injure", she wouldn't have stopped.

If the play was black and white, sure, don't change anything because it is the NCAA tournament. But I really think the ECAC waded into a very gray-area play, especially since the hit was ruled a minor penalty on the ice. To levy that much additional punishment in this situation I just see as wrong.

Not to mention that O'Neill's stick blade is on the ice when she makes contact with the Clarkson player. It looks like she was trying to play the puck/defend Cornell's net so she leaned into the Clarkson player making bodily contact with her. After watching that replay a number of times, I'm still shocked that she received a game suspension particularly given it only drew a minor penalty at the time. It isn't like it happened behind the play and the refs couldn't see what happened.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: upprdeck (---.fs.cornell.edu)
Date: March 08, 2017 12:09PM

Honestly other than the womens game allows very little contact, im not even sure why its a penalty.

it wasnt from behind, it wasnt with a stick, it was if anything a slight elbow/ shoulder contact.

when you slow it down it looks more like a dive then a contact play, the clarkon player took for more contact by losing balance with the ice than with the player

i didnt watch most of the game but there were several contact plays much worse than that not called for anything
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 12:40PM

Slow down the video. The Clarkson player had no physical contact with the Cornell player at the goal. We came in and hit her from the side, in a way that she could not defend herself. Our stick was up when the hit occurred and both officials called the penalty. If that was my daughter, I would have been angry. "No body checking" in women's hockey is a joke, but you cannot do an open ice blind side check. The injury could have been significant.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Beeeej (Moderator)
Date: March 08, 2017 12:44PM

As for those of you continuing to harp on the "and the officials didn't call it worse than a minor at the time!" point, that is literally the reason why the league reviews potentially serious infractions, so they can 1) mete out what they believe is the appropriate punishment even if the refs didn't do so at the time, and 2) clarify to the refs that this should have been a point of emphasis and ought to be for the future. Whether you disagree with their eventual conclusion is really the only relevant question.

 
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
Tundra British Columbia Headhunters Circus
Tucson or Bust!

"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2017 12:51PM by Beeeej.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 12:53PM

Beeeej
As for those of you continuing to harp on the "and the officials didn't call it worse than a minor at the time!" point, that is literally the reason why the league reviews potentially serious infractions, so they can 1) mete out what they believe is the appropriate punishment even if the refs didn't do so at the time, and 2) clarify to the refs that this should have been a point of emphasis and ought to be for the future. Whether you disagree with their eventual conclusion is really the only relevant question.

Well, then I hope the league had better video of the play than we do, and that that video shows something a lot worse than what we can see. Because based on what we can see, the contact just does not look that serious. O'Neill's stick blade was on the ice. She slowed and almost stopped before making contact. The contact appears to be shoulder to shoulder, and into open ice--not the boards. I just don't see it.

I really don't think I am looking at this through red-tinted glasses. I think I'd feel the same way if it was a Clarkson player suspended for a hit like that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2017 12:55PM by andyw2100.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: upprdeck (---.fs.cornell.edu)
Date: March 08, 2017 01:08PM

i dont deny there was minor contact and sometimes they call that a penalty and sometimes they dont. to elevate it to major with suspension is what is bizarre.

had the girl not fallen down there is no call at all.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 01:11PM

Beeeej
As for those of you continuing to harp on the "and the officials didn't call it worse than a minor at the time!" point, that is literally the reason why the league reviews potentially serious infractions, so they can 1) mete out what they believe is the appropriate punishment even if the refs didn't do so at the time, and 2) clarify to the refs that this should have been a point of emphasis and ought to be for the future.

Also, to address the above directly...

I wasn't so much questioning the purpose of the league reviewing by pointing out that it was ruled a minor on the ice as much as I was suggesting that the "double-upgrade" seemed out of line.

Sure, review anything you want, but I think you really have to see something that the refs couldn't see to change a minor penalty into a disqualification.

That's really all I was getting at when saying it was ruled a minor on the ice.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: upprdeck (---.fs.cornell.edu)
Date: March 08, 2017 01:20PM

mean while the men lose a player for the year and there seems to be no film to review?
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: daredevilcu (---.nyc.biz.rr.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 04:11PM

Basically what the league is saying with the DQ is this:

The hit was illegal.

The call on the ice was insufficient and should have been a major penalty with at least a game misconduct, but more likely a game disqualification due to the time of the infraction and nature of the play.

Since a game misconduct was not issued, the proper remedy is to issue a one-game suspension.

If you don't agree that the hit deserved a misconduct/DQ, that's the only thing there is to talk about. If the league felt that was the right call, they have taken the appropriate steps to remedy it. The only thing they haven't done is given a clear public explanation of the decision, which everyone always hates.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.ipyx-102276-zyo.zip.zayo.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 04:20PM

daredevilcu

Since a game misconduct was not issued, the proper remedy is to issue a one-game suspension.
This is the only part that I don't buy. With 1:40 left in the game, a GM is pretty much the same as a minor. I think the league suspended her for a game because they thought she deserved a one game suspension. It's not much more complicated than that.

 
___________________________
Jokes and stuff
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 04:42PM

andyw2100
Beeeej
As for those of you continuing to harp on the "and the officials didn't call it worse than a minor at the time!" point, that is literally the reason why the league reviews potentially serious infractions, so they can 1) mete out what they believe is the appropriate punishment even if the refs didn't do so at the time, and 2) clarify to the refs that this should have been a point of emphasis and ought to be for the future. Whether you disagree with their eventual conclusion is really the only relevant question.

Well, then I hope the league had better video of the play than we do, and that that video shows something a lot worse than what we can see. Because based on what we can see, the contact just does not look that serious. O'Neill's stick blade was on the ice. She slowed and almost stopped before making contact. The contact appears to be shoulder to shoulder, and into open ice--not the boards. I just don't see it.

I really don't think I am looking at this through red-tinted glasses. I think I'd feel the same way if it was a Clarkson player suspended for a hit like that.

I guess we just have to disagree, but if you'll go back and watch in slo-mo, you can see that her stick came up when the hit occurred, cross-check. And no one seems to address that it was an open ice, blind side hit that could have led to serious injury. The fact that it didn't, doesn't matter.

Let's just hope that the team rallies and she gets to play in the semis.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: upprdeck (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 06:47PM

where was it open ice blind side?

I saw slowed down shoulder to shoulder almost face to face but not quite.

open ice blind side hits would be penalized in the means game.

this would not be a penalty at all in the mens game, its the rule about contact that made it a penalty, even it it seemed mostly minor, i think the fact the clarkson player had her head down is the reason she went down, had she not gown down but spun around its probably not even a penalty.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: daredevilcu (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:04PM

ugarte
daredevilcu

Since a game misconduct was not issued, the proper remedy is to issue a one-game suspension.
This is the only part that I don't buy. With 1:40 left in the game, a GM is pretty much the same as a minor. I think the league suspended her for a game because they thought she deserved a one game suspension. It's not much more complicated than that.

Maybe, but I also think that if this were the beginning of the 2nd period and a 5+game was the call on the ice, you wouldn't see the suspension.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:07PM

Jim Hyla
Let's just hope that the team rallies and she gets to play in the semis.

We can definitely agree on that!
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: daredevilcu (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:31PM

Hit from another angle.

 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:39PM

daredevilcu
Hit from another angle.


I think this video strengthens O'Neill's case more than the league's.

 
___________________________
class of '09
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.sub-70-209-137.myvzw.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:41PM

daredevilcu
Hit from another angle.

I'm just watching on my phone, but it looks worse, almost like it was a punch.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: daredevilcu (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:43PM

I agree with Jim. This video makes it look like a very deliberate headshot.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:50PM

Jim Hyla
I'm just watching on my phone, but it looks worse, almost like it was a punch.

daredevilcu
I agree with Jim. This video makes it look like a very deliberate headshot.

Seeing the play from this angle, I actually agree now too.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 08, 2017 07:53PM

That video raises an interesting question, I think.

What video does the league use when reviewing these kinds of plays? Do they use any video available, including people's individual videos that may be posted online, or are they limited to some set of "official" videos.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: upprdeck (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 09:29PM

now we are talking a completely different kind of hit..

with that video you can see why the ref ruled it a minor from the other angle.

and that looks like a blow to the head from this angle.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 08, 2017 09:44PM

andyw2100
That video raises an interesting question, I think.

What video does the league use when reviewing these kinds of plays? Do they use any video available, including people's individual videos that may be posted online, or are they limited to some set of "official" videos.
There should be an overhead replay camera. That, too, would pick up the momentum leading up to the check/hit.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: upprdeck (---.fs.cornell.edu)
Date: March 09, 2017 09:29AM

i think the overhead is probably the one that actually shows if there was head contact
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2017 03:05PM

Free video of the NCAA quarter-final vs. Clarkson here:

[www.clarksonathletics.tv]
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 04:00PM

Down 1-0 halfway through 2nd period, but not looking very good for the Big Red. We're getting pinned in our own zone often; defensemen getting caught on some long shifts, and loose pucks out in front of Voorheis often. Without the speed of O'Neill, it's hard to generate decent scoring opportunities. It also seems like we're saving our energy for the third period with very conservative tactics.

 
___________________________
class of '09
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 04:11PM

imafrshmn
Down 1-0 halfway through 2nd period, but not looking very good for the Big Red. We're getting pinned in our own zone often; defensemen getting caught on some long shifts, and loose pucks out in front of Voorheis often. Without the speed of O'Neill, it's hard to generate decent scoring opportunities. It also seems like we're saving our energy for the third period with very conservative tactics.
And the Clarkson goal coming on a power play after a dumb, unnecessary elbowing penalty.

Now a fifth straight penalty called on Cornell with 3:28 left in the second.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 04:18PM

Still down 1-0 heading into the third period, I think it's been a fairly successful game thus far. It's always seemed that in order to beat Clarkson this year, especially without O'Neill, we've gotta just hang tough and give ourselves a chance to steal it at the end.

 
___________________________
class of '09

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2017 04:18PM by imafrshmn.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2017 04:26PM

imafrshmn
Still down 1-0 heading into the third period, I think it's been a fairly successful game thus far. It's always seemed that in order to beat Clarkson this year, especially without O'Neill, we've gotta just hang tough and give ourselves a chance to steal it at the end.

Tough playing a good team with only 5 defenders.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 04:51PM

Jim Hyla
imafrshmn
Still down 1-0 heading into the third period, I think it's been a fairly successful game thus far. It's always seemed that in order to beat Clarkson this year, especially without O'Neill, we've gotta just hang tough and give ourselves a chance to steal it at the end.

Tough playing a good team with only 5 defenders.
And without your leading goal scorer.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 04:59PM

We didn't get the bounces tonight, and the refs didn't do us any favors either. Clarkson capitalizes on a 3-on-2 with under 2' left to likely seal the deal. Felt like a sucker punch but it was very well executed. Stop the presses! EAG for Cornell , 2-1 with a minute to go

 
___________________________
class of '09

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2017 04:59PM by imafrshmn.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: ugarte (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 05:01PM

Good pressure in the last five but not a lot on net and then they gave up a 3 on 2 and a goal with just under two minutes left.

Cornell popped one in almost immediately after, but the ENG by Clarkson to make it 3-1 should end this one.

 
___________________________
Jokes and stuff
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 05:01PM

And Clarkson promptly puts in the empty netter. Oof. Valiant efforts all around for the Big Red.

 
___________________________
class of '09
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2017 05:08PM

As close as we came in this match, we still overachieved to get to this position. Derraugh's post-game conference: [www.youtube.com]

I can't believe it's time to say goodbye to seniors Hanna Bunton, Paula Voorheis, Kaitlin Doering, and Sydney Smith. They go out as Ivy League Champs, which is nothing to sneeze at in women's hockey. So very proud of the seniors and all the rest of these women all season long. I'll be looking forward to an even more competitive squad in 2017-18.

 
___________________________
class of '09

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 02:36PM by imafrshmn.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 19, 2017 05:15PM

Clarkson women win their second NCAA title. Beating UW 3-0.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: imafrshmn (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: March 19, 2017 05:28PM

Tremendous upset victory for Clarkson. Wisconsin's superiority this year was based on fast pace of play, puck possession, high shot count, and good goaltending. We knew their weakness was that their scoring chances were often low quality, but we didn't have the depth to deal with their pace in our two game series with the Badgers. I didn't have a chance to watch the championship, but it seems like Clarkson was able to limit high quality chances for Wisc while burying their own. Not sure how luck and reffing factored in. It's bittersweet to see our conference rival get their second NCAA (after just their first ECAC tourny title) while we sit with 4 ECAC titles. Still, today's upset speaks to the strength of our league.

 
___________________________
class of '09
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: RichH (134.223.116.---)
Date: March 22, 2017 11:34AM

imafrshmn
It's bittersweet to see our conference rival get their second NCAA (after just their first ECAC tourny title) while we sit with 4 ECAC titles. Still, today's upset speaks to the strength of our league.

I used to tease my friends at Clarkson for not even having a women's team when we were in school. Now they not only have a program, but two national titles. Every time I think of that, I'm transported right back to watching Cornell start the third OT of the 2010 NCAA Final in an Albany bar.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 22, 2017 04:15PM

RichH
imafrshmn
It's bittersweet to see our conference rival get their second NCAA (after just their first ECAC tourny title) while we sit with 4 ECAC titles. Still, today's upset speaks to the strength of our league.
I used to tease my friends at Clarkson for not even having a women's team when we were in school. Now they not only have a program, but two national titles. Every time I think of that, I'm transported right back to watching Cornell start the third OT of the 2010 NCAA Final in an Albany bar.
Seeing that game, and all the close chances Cornell and Minnesota had, I was thinking: Awesome if Cornell wins. If not, they'll be back in the title game soon. I knew not to think that the same month when Cornell made the Sweet Sixteen in basketball.

Still, this is good for the ECAC overall.
 
Re: Women's Team 2016-17
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 29, 2017 07:01PM

Unfortunate and surprising news that North Dakota is axing women's hockey and some other sports due to budgetary issues.
 
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