RPI @ CU 2/15/14

Still no definitive information on Hilbrich & Mowrey?

No line up changes tonight.

If they have the same effort and occasionally get a shot on goal we should be good.

flyersgolf
If they have the same effort and occasionally get a shot on goal we should be good.

And Andy makes some good saves and doesn't leave juicy rebounds.

I was going to say its time for Iles to get hot and stay hot till the end of the season. He has not stood on his head in a while. @ Colorado College? This is it for Andy I hope he has a fantastic final chapter. Great young man.

flyersgolf
I was going to say its time for Iles to get hot and stay hot till the end of the season. He has not stood on his head in a while. @ Colorado College? This is it for Andy I hope he has a fantastic final chapter. Great young man.

+1

Did they win a single faceoff that entire game? And the lack of any urgency whatsoever in the last 15 mins, just nauseating. This will be the reality until they get rid of Shithead Schafer. If they don't turn it around by the end of the year, burn the program to the ground.

ScrewBU
Did they win a single faceoff that entire game?

27, to be precise.

ScrewBU
Did they win a single faceoff that entire game? And the lack of any urgency whatsoever in the last 15 mins, just nauseating. This will be the reality until they get rid of Shithead Schafer. If they don't turn it around by the end of the year, burn the program to the ground.

I agree with the urgency part. I am so absolutely frustrated with the team and the coaching. Its getting to the point where the team could not score on an empty net with no opposition on the ice. The highlight of the game was at least nobody got kicked out of the game for retaliating after Ryan was kneed.

I also feel like players are regressing during their time at CU. For example, does anyone honestly think that Ferlin or Lowry are better today than they were almost 3 years ago? I certainly don't, I am beginning to wonder why any potential recruit with decent NHL aspirations would come to Cornell. I don't think from a hockey standpoint that it would serve them well.

MattS
I also feel like players are regressing during their time at CU. For example, does anyone honestly think that Ferlin or Lowry are better today than they were almost 3 years ago?

It was certainly frustrating to see Lowry play like he had little-to-no interest in being there in the third period, particularly toward the end of the game. To be fair, he looked interested when he took a run at an RPI player with an elbow straight to the head, although that was in the second period.

flyersgolf
I was going to say its time for Iles to get hot and stay hot till the end of the season. He has not stood on his head in a while. @ Colorado College? This is it for Andy I hope he has a fantastic final chapter. Great young man.

Andy stole the game at Brown two weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised if his neck is still sore from that game.

MattS
I also feel like players are regressing during their time at CU. For example, does anyone honestly think that Ferlin or Lowry are better today than they were almost 3 years ago? I certainly don't.

Although Joel Lowry's improvement has been fairly modest, I think Brian Ferlin has improved quite a bit. Last month he was flat-out dominant.

Kirill Gotovets and Joakim Ryan, two other NHL-drafted upperclassmen, have also become much more complete players since they arrived on campus.

MattS

ScrewBU
Did they win a single faceoff that entire game? And the lack of any urgency whatsoever in the last 15 mins, just nauseating. This will be the reality until they get rid of Shithead Schafer. If they don't turn it around by the end of the year, burn the program to the ground.

I agree with the urgency part. I am so absolutely frustrated with the team and the coaching. Its getting to the point where the team could not score on an empty net with no opposition on the ice. The highlight of the game was at least nobody got kicked out of the game for retaliating after Ryan was kneed.

I also feel like players are regressing during their time at CU. For example, does anyone honestly think that Ferlin or Lowry are better today than they were almost 3 years ago? I certainly don't, I am beginning to wonder why any potential recruit with decent NHL aspirations would come to Cornell. I don't think from a hockey standpoint that it would serve them well.

I must have been watching a different game from you two. I disagree 100% with all your points.

Bardreau won most of the key faceoffs down the stretch -- enough so that I noticed he was winning in clutch situations in the offensive zone. Zalewski beat Kubes on the last big one only because the puck floated into neutral territory and an RPI guy happened to get there a split second early.


The players controlled play for much of the game. They can't score for shit right now, but sometimes that happens. They set themselves up to be in the Union game and they outplayed RPI. Good process, bad result. Very frustrating, but nothing to do with failure on the part of either the coaches or the players.

Ferlin is the best player on the ice these days. When he got to Ithaca he had raw gifts and strength; now he's a solid hockey player. I'm stunned people would cite him as an alleged example of failure to develop after last night especially -- he dominated RPI and drove the offense. He was responsible for several dangerous chances. In prior years the signature strong arm arcs he cuts would wind up with him trapped in the corner or flying off the puck as he tried to pivot towards the net; now he winds up in good position to either pass across the crease or take a hard shot. That's coaching plus player improvement.

Add there was plenty of urgency down the stretch. RPI was playing five skaters across the blueline like the Pinetree Early Warning Line and we still managed to penetrate, hold the puck, move it despite seemingly three guys clogging up every lane.

Sometimes a loss is bad (Colgate), sometimes it is basically a coin flip (Union), and sometimes it is the fickle hand of fate (RPI).

CornellBigRed.com
Cornell was 0-for-3 on the power play, leaving it scoreless on its last 26 opportunities on the man advantage.

Sad results this weekend, especially last night. The good news is that Clarkson also lost two games this weekend when they probably expected to win two.

I don't think we control our fate anymore as far as getting a bye: If we and Clarkson win the rest of our games, they win the tiebreaker, since they would have 3 wins against the top 4, while we would have 2 wins and a tie. However, their schedule is definitely harder in the last two weeks (1 game against U and Q)

KGR11
I don't think we control our fate anymore as far as getting a bye: If we and Clarkson win the rest of our games, they win the tiebreaker, since they would have 3 wins against the top 4, while we would have 2 wins and a tie. However, their schedule is definitely harder in the last two weeks (1 game against U and Q)

We do not control our fate, but it is close. If we win out we have 28 and Q has lost 2 points, giving them a max of 31. For Clarkson to stay with us they need to win out which means Q has lost another 2 points, giving them a max of 29. If Colgate wins out Q has lost another 2 points giving them a max of 27 and putting us ahead of Q. If OTOH Q beats Gate then both Gate and Q have a max of 29 so we do not control our fate. If Q and Gate tie then Clarkson, Q and we each have a max of 28 but we lose the three-way with them. If in that scenario Gate loses to one of the non-contenders then we wind up on the bottom of a 4-way tie for 2nd.

cbuckser

flyersgolf
I was going to say its time for Iles to get hot and stay hot till the end of the season. He has not stood on his head in a while. @ Colorado College? This is it for Andy I hope he has a fantastic final chapter. Great young man.

Andy stole the game at Brown two weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised if his neck is still sore from that game.

MattS
I also feel like players are regressing during their time at CU. For example, does anyone honestly think that Ferlin or Lowry are better today than they were almost 3 years ago? I certainly don't.

Although Joel Lowry's improvement has been fairly modest, I think Brian Ferlin has improved quite a bit. Last month he was flat-out dominant.

Kirill Gotovets and Joakim Ryan, two other NHL-drafted upperclassmen, have also become much more complete players since they arrived on campus.

I won't disagree with you on the D-men. They do develop nicely at CU. I should have been more specific and said the forwards.

Trotsky

MattS

ScrewBU
Did they win a single faceoff that entire game? And the lack of any urgency whatsoever in the last 15 mins, just nauseating. This will be the reality until they get rid of Shithead Schafer. If they don't turn it around by the end of the year, burn the program to the ground.

I agree with the urgency part. I am so absolutely frustrated with the team and the coaching. Its getting to the point where the team could not score on an empty net with no opposition on the ice. The highlight of the game was at least nobody got kicked out of the game for retaliating after Ryan was kneed.

I also feel like players are regressing during their time at CU. For example, does anyone honestly think that Ferlin or Lowry are better today than they were almost 3 years ago? I certainly don't, I am beginning to wonder why any potential recruit with decent NHL aspirations would come to Cornell. I don't think from a hockey standpoint that it would serve them well.

I must have been watching a different game from you two. I disagree 100% with all your points.

Bardreau won most of the key faceoffs down the stretch -- enough so that I noticed he was winning in clutch situations in the offensive zone. Zalewski beat Kubes on the last big one only because the puck floated into neutral territory and an RPI guy happened to get there a split second early.


The players controlled play for much of the game. They can't score for shit right now, but sometimes that happens. They set themselves up to be in the Union game and they outplayed RPI. Good process, bad result. Very frustrating, but nothing to do with failure on the part of either the coaches or the players.

Ferlin is the best player on the ice these days. When he got to Ithaca he had raw gifts and strength; now he's a solid hockey player. I'm stunned people would cite him as an alleged example of failure to develop after last night especially -- he dominated RPI and drove the offense. He was responsible for several dangerous chances. In prior years the signature strong arm arcs he cuts would wind up with him trapped in the corner or flying off the puck as he tried to pivot towards the net; now he winds up in good position to either pass across the crease or take a hard shot. That's coaching plus player improvement.

Add there was plenty of urgency down the stretch. RPI was playing five skaters across the blueline like the Pinetree Early Warning Line and we still managed to penetrate, hold the puck, move it despite seemingly three guys clogging up every lane.

Sometimes a loss is bad (Colgate), sometimes it is basically a coin flip (Union), and sometimes it is the fickle hand of fate (RPI).

I think there is a big difference between scoring and creating solid scoring chances, and looking fancy skating around with the puck. Ferlin doesn't do a lot of A, some of B, and tons of C. Ferlin's moves are impressive but I don't think they are all that effective at creating scoring chances. I don't think he dominated RPI at all. CU controlled play for much of that game but I don't believe he was the driving force in it. And when you put up a big zero on the scoring sheet I don't know how anyone can say you "dominated".

I thought the urgency was there until shortly after CU scored. After that it seemed to have slacked off. It's not hard to gain the zone on a dump and chase against a team that was obviously just trying to hold on for a win. 8 shot on goal (yes, I know SOG are not a super indicator of offense but still) in a period when you need 3? Seriously that is dominating that is urgency?

I will admit that part of my complaints is born partly of frustration. I just don't believe that Schafer is making this team better. I don't believe in luck. I don't believe in a "hot goaltender" and any of that other BS that people use for excuses. Bottom line is that this team needs to get these wins against teams they should be beating right now (Union excluded). They are giving away points when they should be playing their best hockey of the season preparing for a playoff push.

MattS
I don't believe in luck. I don't believe in a "hot goaltender" and any of that other BS that people use for excuses.

It's all very well to not believe in "luck" as a supernatural pattern emerging out random variation. I don't believe in that either; it's magical thinking. But a "hot" goaltender just expresses the fact that the players are not Strat cards and some days they are more on their game, for whatever permutation of body and brain chemistry. That's absolutely real.

I think we sometimes fall into the trap of assuming our team dictates the result of a game and the opponent is a stable background condition. This is untrue: it is possible to play poorly and win (UNO) and play well and lose (RPI). If we could just will ourselves into scoring position and goals Topher Scott would be the all-time NCAA scoring leader.

Trotsky

MattS
I don't believe in luck. I don't believe in a "hot goaltender" and any of that other BS that people use for excuses.

It's all very well to not believe in "luck" as a supernatural pattern emerging out random variation. I don't believe in that either; it's magical thinking. But a "hot" goaltender just expresses the fact that the players are not Strat cards and some days they are more on their game, for whatever permutation of body and brain chemistry. That's absolutely real.

I think we sometimes fall into the trap of assuming our team dictates the result of a game and the opponent is a stable background condition. This is untrue: it is possible to play poorly and win (UNO) and play well and lose (RPI). If we could just will ourselves into scoring position and goals Topher Scott would be the all-time NCAA scoring leader.

I don't believe in luck either. Players can have good nights and bad nights for all sorts of reasons. I don't think there is much carry over from one night to another, eventually they regress to their means +/- some trend for general improvement.

You can wish for "Hot Goaltending" all you want but you should not expect it nor should you castigate Iles for not playing better than his average. By the way, there are 5 guys standing in front of him that are supposed to help make him look good.

I do have a real problem with the whining about the referees when we lose. Like Baseball, you hope they get 90%+ of the calls right and that is about as good as you can expect. If it is the ref's fault when we lose then it must be the ref's fault when we win unless you buy into the theory that they meet in some dark place to decide "How can we screw Cornell this week."

Towerroad
I do have a real problem with the whining about the referees when we lose. Like Baseball, you hope they get 90%+ of the calls right and that is about as good as you can expect. If it is the ref's fault when we lose then it must be the ref's fault when we win unless you buy into the theory that they meet in some dark place to decide "How can we screw Cornell this week."

You should never, ever read the threads on USCHO.

We have no business bitching about officiating this year. A lot of questionable stuff has gone in our favor, and they essentially handed us the Brown game. It evens out over time, though of course by selective perception we greatly overvalue the times when bad calls go against us and think that on balance we are "getting screwed" (the Got 6 Effect).

Mowry and Hilbrich seemed to have an influence this weekend from where I sat in L , (thank you for the caramel popcorn, too).

KGR11
Sad results this weekend, especially last night. The good news is that Clarkson also lost two games this weekend when they probably expected to win two.

I don't think we control our fate anymore as far as getting a bye: If we and Clarkson win the rest of our games, they win the tiebreaker, since they would have 3 wins against the top 4, while we would have 2 wins and a tie. However, their schedule is definitely harder in the last two weeks (1 game against U and Q)

As of a few years ago the second tiebreaker in the ECAC (after head-to-head) is total wins, so record vs the top four doesn't even enter into our tiebreaker with Clarkson unless we go 2-2-0 and they go 0-0-4 in the last four games.

Don't forget that RPI was rated 1 and 2 in the preseason polls. The question should be why RPI has been playing like crap most of the year, not Cornell this weekend. Remember that comeback that Cornell had in Troy early this year? -- that is more typical of RPI.

ursusminor
Don't forget that RPI was rated 1 and 2 in the preseason polls. The question should be why RPI has been playing like crap most of the year, not Cornell this weekend. Remember that comeback that Cornell had in Troy early this year? -- that is more typical of RPI.

More to the point on this forum is why RPI's defense looks better against Cornell than it does against other decent teams. But, yes, why is RPI so mediocre?

Trotsky

MattS
I don't believe in luck. I don't believe in a "hot goaltender" and any of that other BS that people use for excuses.

It's all very well to not believe in "luck" as a supernatural pattern emerging out random variation. I don't believe in that either; it's magical thinking. But a "hot" goaltender just expresses the fact that the players are not Strat cards and some days they are more on their game, for whatever permutation of body and brain chemistry. That's absolutely real.

I think we sometimes fall into the trap of assuming our team dictates the result of a game and the opponent is a stable background condition. This is untrue: it is possible to play poorly and win (UNO) and play well and lose (RPI). If we could just will ourselves into scoring position and goals Topher Scott would be the all-time NCAA scoring leader.

True, players do have games or even streaks of games, where they can play above their average performance. I was just trying to convey that I don't think it is wise to use said performance as an excuse for losing a game.

I agree with you in that I (we) cannot think of a game's outcome in a vacuum and I did not mean to imply that. Any team has it within their power to dictate the result of a game. Now, the opposing team has just as much power to dictate the result also. It's a battle. It all comes down to skill, coaching, and performing to the best of one's ability and the game plan. I just don't believe in using excuses for losses.

marty
Mowry and Hilbrich seemed to have an influence this weekend from where I sat in L , (thank you for the caramel popcorn, too).

Agree about missing those two. It completely rearrainged the lines, and we essentially had no second PP unit. Yes, I know you can argue we don't have a first unit either. People have complained about Bardreau and faceoffs, but who gets it when Mowery is out? Assumning Ryan is healthy, and if they maintain the same aggressiveness, I expect the team will be a lot better next weekend.

Speaking of Mowery and Ryan, when is the league going to really crack down, especially hits like on Ryan. Why only a game misconduct, and not a DQ, even for more than 1 game. Much like how easily Union got off, at least until all the uproar, getting 15 min at the end of a game is meaningless. Here we could lose, arguably, our best player for the rest of the year. And no, I don't know anything about his injury, but it could have put him out.

(And you're very welcome.)

MattS
I just don't believe in using excuses for losses.

One man's excuse is another man's explanation. There's a bias against citing deleterious conditions in sports because of the macho "excuses are for losers" mentality which may (or may not) be good training for young athletes. But we're not the ones performing, so it's OK for us to try to weigh all the factors rationally.

Jim Hyla

marty
Mowry and Hilbrich seemed to have an influence this weekend from where I sat in L , (thank you for the caramel popcorn, too).

Agree about missing those two. It completely rearrainged the lines, and we essentially had no second PP unit. Yes, I know you can argue we don't have a first unit either. People have complained about Bardreau and faceoffs, but who gets it when Mowery is out? Assumning Ryan is healthy, and if they maintain the same aggressiveness, I expect the team will be a lot better next weekend.

Speaking of Mowery and Ryan, when is the league going to really crack down, especially hits like on Ryan. Why only a game misconduct, and not a DQ, even for more than 1 game. Much like how easily Union got off, at least until all the uproar, getting 15 min at the end of a game is meaningless. Here we could lose, arguably, our best player for the rest of the year. And no, I don't know anything about his injury, but it could have put him out.

(And you're very welcome.)

Something has to be done about last minute cheap shots. There's almost no drawback to taking them.

Also, as long as I'm whining about the rules. How is trying to sneak guys off the ice after an icing not a penalty?

Jim Hyla

marty
Mowrey and Hilbrich seemed to have an influence this weekend from where I sat in L , (thank you for the caramel popcorn, too).

Speaking of Mowrey and Ryan, when is the league going to really crack down, especially hits like on Ryan. Why only a game misconduct, and not a DQ, even for more than 1 game. Much like how easily Union got off, at least until all the uproar, getting 15 min at the end of a game is meaningless. Here we could lose, arguably, our best player for the rest of the year. And no, I don't know anything about his injury, but it could have put him out.

When seated in front of recruit Hunter Racine's parents we learned a bit about their take on the college game as compared to the Canadian juniors. First off his mom thought that there would have been a brawl with all the hooking and such that she saw on the ice during the game against Union. This may explain why some of the players take a while to mature in division one.

But here is the kicker - she said that late in the game (I remember her saying in the last five minutes) that if a player is tossed for fighting (or a major penalty?) there is an automatic DQ issued. I think this could be the answer to the goons that seem to have sprouted in the last year or so. I don't see a downside to this in the NCAA. It is unthinkable that we might lose Mowrey, Hilbrich and Ryan for the season but also consider that these players could have permanent brain damage from this sort of play.

How is trying to sneak guys off the ice after an icing not a penalty?

If you do it enough the ref could give you a delay of game. That's probably the only way to stop it.

Trotsky

How is trying to sneak guys off the ice after an icing not a penalty?

If you do it enough the ref could give you a delay of game. That's probably the only way to stop it.

Why enough, though? It's breaking the rules, and whenever teams do it, it's referred to the announcers as sneaking or something like that. It's not like there's much of a question as to whether or not the team is trying to get away with something.

Dafatone

Trotsky

How is trying to sneak guys off the ice after an icing not a penalty?

If you do it enough the ref could give you a delay of game. That's probably the only way to stop it.

Why enough, though? It's breaking the rules, and whenever teams do it, it's referred to the announcers as sneaking or something like that. It's not like there's much of a question as to whether or not the team is trying to get away with something.

Rule 80.4 (in part)
Any attempt by the either team to make a change after the referee’s
signal, attempt to place too many men on the ice for the subsequent
line change, or attempt to make additional personnel changes, shall not
be permitted and the referee will send the players who have attempted
to change back to their players’ bench. The referee will then issue a
warning to the offending team (through the coach) indicating that any
subsequent violations during the rest of the game (including overtime),
shall result in a bench minor penalty for delaying the game.

Boy is that a rule that's ignored. It seems like every coach tries it on every other icing.

Trotsky
Boy is that a rule that's ignored. It seems like every coach tries it on every other icing.

The rule quoted doesn't actually say anything about having the wrong personnel on the ice after icing. I guess you could argue that the team was "attempting to make additional personnel changes" but I think that's a stretch, since in the situation you're talking about the changes were already made, and what's really going on is that the team is attempting not to change them back.

jtwcornell91

KGR11
Sad results this weekend, especially last night. The good news is that Clarkson also lost two games this weekend when they probably expected to win two.

I don't think we control our fate anymore as far as getting a bye: If we and Clarkson win the rest of our games, they win the tiebreaker, since they would have 3 wins against the top 4, while we would have 2 wins and a tie. However, their schedule is definitely harder in the last two weeks (1 game against U and Q)

As of a few years ago the second tiebreaker in the ECAC (after head-to-head) is total wins, so record vs the top four doesn't even enter into our tiebreaker with Clarkson unless we go 2-2-0 and they go 0-0-4 in the last four games.

Thanks for the correction. Completely missed that line on the ECAC website.

This Team Russia fan seems like he could use an ELynah account:
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