11/2 Quinnipiac

The first real test of the season.

Quinnipiac (7-1-0, 1-0-0) at Cornell (3-0-0, 1-0-0)
Princeton (1-2-0, 0-1-0) at Colgate (2-5-1, 0-1-0)
St. Lawrence (4-2-1, 0-0-1) at Brown (2-1-0, 0-1-0)
Clarkson (7-1-1, 1-0-0) at Yale (1-1-1, 0-0-1)
RPI (4-2-1, 0-1-1) at Dartmouth (0-3-0, 0-1-0)
Union (2-2-2, 1-0-0) at Harvard (2-0-1, 1-0-1)

After 1 I am mildly impressed with CU ability to make plays off the rush. The PP has come back to where I expect it.

Well that was disappointing. I don't think there is any positive to take away from that game except that occasionally CU managed a decent rush up ice in the first period. After that they looked gassed. And once Q scored it was like they were mentally done. But it was pretty typical of the last couple of seasons. Stupid penalty, check. Bad PP, check. Let other team run around in the defensive zone, check. No sustained forecheck to speak of,check.

A couple of things I would seriously look at changing. Get Ryan off the first unit PP. He is holding them up. He can't or won't or is told not to carry the puck up ice and his outlet pass is poor. That has to change. I think the McCarron or Gotovets would do better in that role on the first unit. Watching the difference between the first and second units ability to move the puck up ice is very startling.

Get Buckles onto a line where his speed and offense can come through. I see flashes of good from him but he is stuck with linemates that do not complement him.

On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

MattS

On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

What most differentiates teams like Q, Union and Yale from Cornell right now is the ability to quickly and effectively move the puck to get into scoring position. Cornell's method seems to be to try to "will" the puck towards the net with brute force and score off a scramble in front.

Season's still early, though, and lots of time to get better.

MattS
Well that was disappointing. I don't think there is any positive to take away from that game except that occasionally CU managed a decent rush up ice in the first period. After that they looked gassed. And once Q scored it was like they were mentally done. But it was pretty typical of the last couple of seasons. Stupid penalty, check. Bad PP, check. Let other team run around in the defensive zone, check. No sustained forecheck to speak of,check.

A couple of things I would seriously look at changing. Get Ryan off the first unit PP. He is holding them up. He can't or won't or is told not to carry the puck up ice and his outlet pass is poor. That has to change. I think the McCarron or Gotovets would do better in that role on the first unit. Watching the difference between the first and second units ability to move the puck up ice is very startling.

Get Buckles onto a line where his speed and offense can come through. I see flashes of good from him but he is stuck with linemates that do not complement him.

On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

Did you watch the same game as I did? I saw Ryan make a few wonderful carries, one in particular he went around 3 Q players into the offensive zone. No, he is our best defensive, and offensive, defenseman.

Jim Hyla

MattS
Well that was disappointing. I don't think there is any positive to take away from that game except that occasionally CU managed a decent rush up ice in the first period. After that they looked gassed. And once Q scored it was like they were mentally done. But it was pretty typical of the last couple of seasons. Stupid penalty, check. Bad PP, check. Let other team run around in the defensive zone, check. No sustained forecheck to speak of,check.

A couple of things I would seriously look at changing. Get Ryan off the first unit PP. He is holding them up. He can't or won't or is told not to carry the puck up ice and his outlet pass is poor. That has to change. I think the McCarron or Gotovets would do better in that role on the first unit. Watching the difference between the first and second units ability to move the puck up ice is very startling.

Get Buckles onto a line where his speed and offense can come through. I see flashes of good from him but he is stuck with linemates that do not complement him.

On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

Did you watch the same game as I did? I saw Ryan make a few wonderful carries, one in particular he went around 3 Q players into the offensive zone. No, he is our best defensive, and offensive, defenseman.

I did not see that on the PP. He made some good rushes at ES but not on PP. So while he maybe the best offensive defenseman he's not playing like it on the PP and the D on the second unit were doing better tonight (& last night too).

There was a random moment in the second period that here was a mostly standing ovation. There was no penalty, no goal, play was stopped, etc. Anyone know what happened?

WillCMJr
There was a random moment in the second period that here was a mostly standing ovation. There was no penalty, no goal, play was stopped, etc. Anyone know what happened?

I could be mistaken but I think this was right after Cornell killed the second penalty of the 5v3. There was a stoppage right as the penalty expired and people looked at the scoreboard and realized that both penalties were killed as Cornell made a change before the faceoff. That happened early in the third period but it was the only standing ovation where play was stopped that I recall.

TheMatrix

WillCMJr
There was a random moment in the second period that here was a mostly standing ovation. There was no penalty, no goal, play was stopped, etc. Anyone know what happened?

I could be mistaken but I think this was right after Cornell killed the second penalty of the 5v3. There was a stoppage right as the penalty expired and people looked at the scoreboard and realized that both penalties were killed as Cornell made a change before the faceoff.

This was it. That was the only time I remember standing during the game.

Ok, thanks.

Qunnipiac beat us at our game simple as that. Great penalty killing and timely PP goals. I would've liked to see us play more of an "open ice" style, as I think we have the players to do that. Because Qpac is similar to us in terms of playing style, I think that would've caught them off guard. What worried me the most was our complete inability to win any battles in the corners, especially the offensive zone. Besides 1 play in the 1st period, we never seriously challenged their goalie

On the video cast the crowd seemed completely dead, and not just after we fell behind but throughout the entire game except the latter stages of the 5x3 kill.

The Jones brothers and Peca were amazing (again). Looks like Q has found a good goaltender (again).

There aren't a lot of games where you get the first 5 pp chances. Not burying at least one really hurt (especially when Q then scored on its first chance).

I'm not sure about "willing the puck into the net" but we had guys alone in front in perfect position many times in both games, and that hasn't been the case in years. That sure seems like an improvement.

Andy looked good.

On at least one even strength offensive zone faceoff we dropped Ferlin back to point (I think Patrick McCarron took his place up front). Never seen that before.

Knisely and Freschi seem to be this year's designated pests. Weidner seems to magically be in the right place at the right time a lot. Haven't seen him do much with it but it beats being out of position. Buckles seems invisible on the videocast that just follows the puck. He may be really burning it up out there, but so far it hasn't come across.

The Gotovets + 4 Freshmen 2nd pp unit didn't score but it did move the puck around well. It scares me everytime they do it but I don't think they've been burned on a good chance coming back yet.

MacDonald made at least two egregious turnovers that could have led to goals this weekend.

Getting out of next weekend with 2 points would be fantastic. These may be the three best teams in conference back-to-back-to-back, making this the toughest stretch of the RS. It just happens to be coming right at the beginning (not necessarily a bad thing if they haven't got it completely together yet).

Last night's Cornell team failed to shoot the puck while on the power play. By my count, they might have had 3 shots on goal in the first 5 power plays. In the York game, for the 1st time in years, the power play units actually did shoot often and scored. They need to get back to that fundamental element and remember that if you don't shoot, you won't score.

Also, it seems Cornell has had difficulty clearing the puck. Their clearing efforts often end up on the stick of the opponent or just barely get outside the zone. On penalty kill, their clears rarely make it over the red line.

The talent is there. The offense, not so much.

As for the crowd, it wasn't into the game and there wasn't even a "Townies up!" chant.

MattS

TheMatrix

WillCMJr
There was a random moment in the second period that here was a mostly standing ovation. There was no penalty, no goal, play was stopped, etc. Anyone know what happened?

I could be mistaken but I think this was right after Cornell killed the second penalty of the 5v3. There was a stoppage right as the penalty expired and people looked at the scoreboard and realized that both penalties were killed as Cornell made a change before the faceoff.

This was it. That was the only time I remember standing during the game.

Yes, if one of the officials is named Shattie and an opposing player is named Anas you can get an idea of how the game will play out.
In the first period our guys came out like a house afire and it looked like we might have a chance.
But, skating backwards most of the remainder of the game takes its toll on the legs. Neh?
Does anyone have a stat on how many 5 on 3's we've had to kill off so far in this young season??
At the end of the second Lowrey took a run and belted a Q-pee player well after the whistle. Just typical of a general (continuing?) lack of discipline.
I sorta don't mind losing to a better team; maybe. But, giving it to them is another matter entirely.

Oh, and what is it now....11 PP's in a row without a score? That ain't helpin', either.
Stow the umbrella??

Meh. Whichever team scored first was going to win that game, since both were "feeling each other out" for most of it. Yeah, we didn't score with all the powerplays in the first, but QU's goaltender made some amazing saves. After the goal, Quinnipiac went into a version of our "hold the lead" strategy, which very much worked for them when we had to start taking chances in the 3rd.

All-in-all, I saw pretty even game that got broken open at 9:50 of the third. I saw neither a huge talent nor a huge strategy gap between the two teams. Certain freshmen (Weidner, Lewis, and McCarron) continue to impress. Ryan continues to be one of the best defensemen I've ever seen in a Cornell uniform. Some upperclassmen (Mowrey, McCarron) have raised their games. I saw very solid play from two goaltenders, and I found myself wondering if I'd be watching a similar game (with hopefully a different result) at Placid.

The only thing similar to last year is how many on this board are ready to pack it in after the fourth game of the season. Typical.

Did Section D not sell out? The students don't stand up anymore.

I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

If that's true it would be completely inconsistent with an e-mail sent to student ticket holders before this weekend's games. Here's the relevant excerpt:

--Ticket holders who want to upgrade to reserved seats may bring back section E tickets and exchange them (some good locations are available in section A & B)! Note: students with Section E tickets will be asked to move over to section D during certain games to accommodate parents and other adults who cannot stand during the games and need to sit down in section E!
--

My daughter is now a student ticket holder and I guess we used my e-mail address when we bought her season ticket, so I received a copy of this e-mail intended for the student ticket holders.

But on this topic, she sat in Section E for the York game, but was so disappointed by the student "fans" in the section, she jumped at the opportunity to upgrade to B, as offered in the e-mail above. She said no one else in E was really cheering at all during the York game, and that she was the only person around her who even stood for the alma mater at first. (She said eventually a few other people stood.)

I actually noticed this sitting through the alma mater this weekend as well. From my seats in C it looked like more people in D were sitting than standing during the alma mater, and there were people who looked like they were probably students sitting through it in C as well. I can kind of understand freshman not knowing hockey cheers and hockey tradition this early in the season, but standing for the alma mater isn't a hockey thing, it's a Cornell thing. I attended a President's reception for new students on move-in day as well as the new student convocation this year. At both events the alma mater was sung and we all stood. In fact since the President's reception was almost entirely brand new students and their parents, President Skorton actually instructed those present to stand, saying something about it being tradition, etc.

I really don't get it.

andyw2100

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

If that's true it would be completely inconsistent with an e-mail sent to student ticket holders before this weekend's games. Here's the relevant excerpt:

--Ticket holders who want to upgrade to reserved seats may bring back section E tickets and exchange them (some good locations are available in section A & B)! Note: students with Section E tickets will be asked to move over to section D during certain games to accommodate parents and other adults who cannot stand during the games and need to sit down in section E!
--

My daughter is now a student ticket holder and I guess we used my e-mail address when we bought her season ticket, so I received a copy of this e-mail intended for the student ticket holders.

But on this topic, she sat in Section E for the York game, but was so disappointed by the student "fans" in the section, she jumped at the opportunity to upgrade to B, as offered in the e-mail above. She said no one else in E was really cheering at all during the York game, and that she was the only person around her who even stood for the alma mater at first. (She said eventually a few other people stood.)

I actually noticed this sitting through the alma mater this weekend as well. From my seats in C it looked like more people in D were sitting than standing during the alma mater, and there were people who looked like they were probably students sitting through it in C as well. I can kind of understand freshman not knowing hockey cheers and hockey tradition this early in the season, but standing for the alma mater isn't a hockey thing, it's a Cornell thing. I attended a President's reception for new students on move-in day as well as the new student convocation this year. At both events the alma mater was sung and we all stood. In fact since the President's reception was almost entirely brand new students and their parents, President Skorton actually instructed those present to stand, saying something about it being tradition, etc.

I really don't get it.

Harvard transfers?

Swampy

andyw2100

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

If that's true it would be completely inconsistent with an e-mail sent to student ticket holders before this weekend's games. Here's the relevant excerpt:

--Ticket holders who want to upgrade to reserved seats may bring back section E tickets and exchange them (some good locations are available in section A & B)! Note: students with Section E tickets will be asked to move over to section D during certain games to accommodate parents and other adults who cannot stand during the games and need to sit down in section E!
--

My daughter is now a student ticket holder and I guess we used my e-mail address when we bought her season ticket, so I received a copy of this e-mail intended for the student ticket holders.

But on this topic, she sat in Section E for the York game, but was so disappointed by the student "fans" in the section, she jumped at the opportunity to upgrade to B, as offered in the e-mail above. She said no one else in E was really cheering at all during the York game, and that she was the only person around her who even stood for the alma mater at first. (She said eventually a few other people stood.)

I actually noticed this sitting through the alma mater this weekend as well. From my seats in C it looked like more people in D were sitting than standing during the alma mater, and there were people who looked like they were probably students sitting through it in C as well. I can kind of understand freshman not knowing hockey cheers and hockey tradition this early in the season, but standing for the alma mater isn't a hockey thing, it's a Cornell thing. I attended a President's reception for new students on move-in day as well as the new student convocation this year. At both events the alma mater was sung and we all stood. In fact since the President's reception was almost entirely brand new students and their parents, President Skorton actually instructed those present to stand, saying something about it being tradition, etc.

I really don't get it.

Harvard transfers?

I am shocked that we would sink so low.

andyw2100

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

If that's true it would be completely inconsistent with an e-mail sent to student ticket holders before this weekend's games. Here's the relevant excerpt:

--Ticket holders who want to upgrade to reserved seats may bring back section E tickets and exchange them (some good locations are available in section A & B)! Note: students with Section E tickets will be asked to move over to section D during certain games to accommodate parents and other adults who cannot stand during the games and need to sit down in section E!
--

My daughter is now a student ticket holder and I guess we used my e-mail address when we bought her season ticket, so I received a copy of this e-mail intended for the student ticket holders.

But on this topic, she sat in Section E for the York game, but was so disappointed by the student "fans" in the section, she jumped at the opportunity to upgrade to B, as offered in the e-mail above. She said no one else in E was really cheering at all during the York game, and that she was the only person around her who even stood for the alma mater at first. (She said eventually a few other people stood.)

I actually noticed this sitting through the alma mater this weekend as well. From my seats in C it looked like more people in D were sitting than standing during the alma mater, and there were people who looked like they were probably students sitting through it in C as well. I can kind of understand freshman not knowing hockey cheers and hockey tradition this early in the season, but standing for the alma mater isn't a hockey thing, it's a Cornell thing. I attended a President's reception for new students on move-in day as well as the new student convocation this year. At both events the alma mater was sung and we all stood. In fact since the President's reception was almost entirely brand new students and their parents, President Skorton actually instructed those present to stand, saying something about it being tradition, etc.

I really don't get it.

I've been watching Cornell hockey for a long time and I cannot ever recall section D not standing. A few people at the top of the section stood; the people closer to the ice sat and didn't make any noise.

MattS
On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

But, I mean... how much of that do you put on the coaches and how much on the players? It's not like when the players are coached on power play strategy, they're instructed to pass the puck slowly and hesitantly. If anything, tinkering with the guys on the different power play units will just make this problem worse.

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

When one person in a row is standing then that person's a jerk who you can yell at to sit. If an entire row is standing if you yell at them to sit then you're the jerk.

Peer pressure. Use it or be used by it.

Section B should send out colonies.

Trotsky

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

When one person in a row is standing then that person's a jerk who you can yell at to sit. If an entire row is standing if you yell at them to sit then you're the jerk.

Peer pressure. Use it or be used by it.

Section B should send out colonies.

If not enough students are going to the games that the townies are able to invade D, blame student apathy and (potentially) an oppressive atmosphere if the ushers are still being colossal douchebags. If old people want to sit, they have that right. (The smart thing to do given the reality of the situation is to rearrange things so the sitters are in the lower rows, so those who want to stand can do so without blocking anyone's view. The best thing to do, I'd argue, is go back to general-admission-by-game, and let people who want the best seats get there early. But it's not like that hasn't been said a thousand times here.)

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

I believe that. Six years ago, I had seats in D, and a friend really got on the opposing goalie at the start of the 2nd. Kind of a quiet time before the period started, and my friend just was going on and on about how much the goalie sucked. No swearing, nothing offensive, but a lot of loud, insistent insults. An usher came over and told him to stop, and we were pretty shocked.

I posted about it here, and people were generally skeptical, thinking my friend must've been saying something off color. I'd guess there are a few factors here, but the biggest is probably a push to a more "family friendly" (or, lacking in energy) atmosphere.

Josh '99

MattS
On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

But, I mean... how much of that do you put on the coaches and how much on the players? It's not like when the players are coached on power play strategy, they're instructed to pass the puck slowly and hesitantly. If anything, tinkering with the guys on the different power play units will just make this problem worse.

So you're answer is to do nothing and hope it gets better? It's not like this is a new problem. CU hasn't had a decent PP in about 4 years. Yes, I know it's early and call me reactionary or whatever, but I am tired of watching the same old PP that basically stinks. I think it's a mess and there is plenty of blame to go around to both the coaches and players. However, ultimately it's up to Schafer to devise a scheme that uses the talents of the players in such a way that puts them in the best position to succeed. I obviously have some thoughts on it, but ultimately it's Schafer's problem to fix and so far he has not done it.

Dafatone

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

I believe that. Six years ago, I had seats in D, and a friend really got on the opposing goalie at the start of the 2nd. Kind of a quiet time before the period started, and my friend just was going on and on about how much the goalie sucked. No swearing, nothing offensive, but a lot of loud, insistent insults. An usher came over and told him to stop, and we were pretty shocked.

The last time I was at Lynah a few years ago, one of the colossal douchebags threatened to throw my friend out if he didn't remove his hat during the national anthem. Now, your opinion on removing one's hat during the national anthem aside, what this situation really pointed out to me is that there are too many ushers with not enough actual work to do that they feel a need to micromanage individual behavior that isn't a danger to anyone else or physically disruptive of the game (e.g., throwing objects onto the ice), the only things they really should be involved in. IMO, they really need to go fuck themselves, and next time one of them accosts me I will seek Phil out and tell him so myself even if I get banned from the rink forever.

15 years of family friendly policies have almost certainly contributed to the decline of the Lynah atmosphere: forgive me for sounding like the old man I am, but the atmosphere in the rink really was a lot better objectively when I was a student. Students got there earlier; there were a lot more of them; and they were louder (and mostly in sync). Unlike (say) opinions of whether our chants were better than those of the kids today, these things are measurable and in decline.

Kyle Rose

Dafatone

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

I believe that. Six years ago, I had seats in D, and a friend really got on the opposing goalie at the start of the 2nd. Kind of a quiet time before the period started, and my friend just was going on and on about how much the goalie sucked. No swearing, nothing offensive, but a lot of loud, insistent insults. An usher came over and told him to stop, and we were pretty shocked.

The last time I was at Lynah a few years ago, one of the colossal douchebags threatened to throw my friend out if he didn't remove his hat during the national anthem. Now, your opinion on removing one's hat during the national anthem aside, what this situation really pointed out to me is that there are too many ushers with not enough actual work to do that they feel a need to micromanage individual behavior that isn't a danger to anyone else or physically disruptive of the game (e.g., throwing objects onto the ice), the only things they really should be involved in. IMO, they really need to go fuck themselves, and next time one of them accosts me I will seek Phil out and tell him so myself even if I get banned from the rink forever.

15 years of family friendly policies have almost certainly contributed to the decline of the Lynah atmosphere: forgive me for sounding like the old man I am, but the atmosphere in the rink really was a lot better objectively when I was a student. Students got there earlier; there were a lot more of them; and they were louder (and mostly in sync). Unlike (say) opinions of whether our chants were better than those of the kids today, these things are measurable and in decline.

That's absurd (the hat thing). I think there are some other factors as well. Pricier tickets keep a chunk of students away, which probably doesn't result in us having the best possible fans. General Admission would help a lot, since it would force students to be there earlier. Even if it were just for a few sections.

And I don't want to get all "kids these days..." since I think most of the factors are administrational, but there's probably something about technology making Ithaca a bit less isolated than it used to be, and students not being as fueled by desperation to lash out at opposing players. Oh well.

Dafatone
And I don't want to get all "kids these days..." since I think most of the factors are administrational, but there's probably something about technology making Ithaca a bit less isolated than it used to be, and students not being as fueled by desperation to lash out at opposing players. Oh well.

Surely there are a lot of contributing factors, but the rink staff aren't making the place any more welcoming by promoting such an oppressive atmosphere.

Let's back up for a second and examine this from the standpoint of a potential new fan. How did I get into Cornell hockey? Because I had friends tell me, "It's awesome! Here's an extra ticket: come with us and see for yourself." And it was awesome. And I was hooked. It's hard to break that kind of feedback cycle, but Cornell has been at it for 15 years and seems to have largely succeeded. Yeah, there are more distractions nowadays, but I have a hard time believing there is something intrinsically different nowadays about getting 10% of the student body to watch a 2½ hour hockey game 15 times a year. The feeling I get from Lynah when I go now is mostly "meh". The energy simply isn't there. The energy is what got me going to the games in the first place. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Kyle Rose

Dafatone

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

I believe that. Six years ago, I had seats in D, and a friend really got on the opposing goalie at the start of the 2nd. Kind of a quiet time before the period started, and my friend just was going on and on about how much the goalie sucked. No swearing, nothing offensive, but a lot of loud, insistent insults. An usher came over and told him to stop, and we were pretty shocked.

The last time I was at Lynah a few years ago, one of the colossal douchebags threatened to throw my friend out if he didn't remove his hat during the national anthem. Now, your opinion on removing one's hat during the national anthem aside, what this situation really pointed out to me is that there are too many ushers with not enough actual work to do that they feel a need to micromanage individual behavior that isn't a danger to anyone else or physically disruptive of the game (e.g., throwing objects onto the ice), the only things they really should be involved in. IMO, they really need to go fuck themselves, and next time one of them accosts me I will seek Phil out and tell him so myself even if I get banned from the rink forever.

15 years of family friendly policies have almost certainly contributed to the decline of the Lynah atmosphere: forgive me for sounding like the old man I am, but the atmosphere in the rink really was a lot better objectively when I was a student. Students got there earlier; there were a lot more of them; and they were louder (and mostly in sync). Unlike (say) opinions of whether our chants were better than those of the kids today, these things are measurable and in decline.

I'm even older than you (so, hey, grave dibs!) and I'll go 50% of the way to agreement. The ushers can overreact and that's obviously not good, and since they have to deal with hundreds of people in a section they sometimes enforce first and think later. Still, they are not autonomous. They have to listen to university suits who in turn have to listen to the kind of people who write into newspapers and express outrage that girls' ankles are now clearly visible and WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN????!!!???!

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation. As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old. The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Dafatone

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

I believe that. Six years ago, I had seats in D, and a friend really got on the opposing goalie at the start of the 2nd. Kind of a quiet time before the period started, and my friend just was going on and on about how much the goalie sucked. No swearing, nothing offensive, but a lot of loud, insistent insults. An usher came over and told him to stop, and we were pretty shocked.

The last time I was at Lynah a few years ago, one of the colossal douchebags threatened to throw my friend out if he didn't remove his hat during the national anthem. Now, your opinion on removing one's hat during the national anthem aside, what this situation really pointed out to me is that there are too many ushers with not enough actual work to do that they feel a need to micromanage individual behavior that isn't a danger to anyone else or physically disruptive of the game (e.g., throwing objects onto the ice), the only things they really should be involved in. IMO, they really need to go fuck themselves, and next time one of them accosts me I will seek Phil out and tell him so myself even if I get banned from the rink forever.

15 years of family friendly policies have almost certainly contributed to the decline of the Lynah atmosphere: forgive me for sounding like the old man I am, but the atmosphere in the rink really was a lot better objectively when I was a student. Students got there earlier; there were a lot more of them; and they were louder (and mostly in sync). Unlike (say) opinions of whether our chants were better than those of the kids today, these things are measurable and in decline.

I'm even older than you (so, hey, grave dibs!) and I'll go 50% of the way to agreement. The ushers can overreact and that's obviously not good, and since they have to deal with hundreds of people in a section they sometimes enforce first and think later. Still, they are not autonomous. They have to listen to university suits who in turn have to listen to the kind of people who write into newspapers and express outrage that girls' ankles are now clearly visible and WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN????!!!???!

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation. As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old. The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Are you certain this is still the case? Cause it was fading in my day (2005-2007) at least in sections D and F, and that seems to be getting worse.

Trotsky
So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation. As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old. The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

And for the record, yes, I agree that the ushers are mostly the messengers interpreting and delivering the mandates of the higher-ups. I have no lever that high in University management, however, so I provide feedback where I can. The ushers can go fuck themselves if they target behavior that isn't directly in danger of harming someone else or interfering with the game. Billy will survive hearing some college kids cursing in unison. The Lynah atmosphere has not survived the chilling effect of capricious ejections. The damage has already been done.

BTW, I feel some unwanted vindication for my viewpoint from 17 years ago. All of you who were okay with the changes, and claimed the new family-friendly atmosphere would not impact the energy of the Lynah crowd, were flat-out wrong. The evidence is clearly on my side. I wish I were wrong, but... here we are. Because with the bad/unimaginative cursing also went the energy and the creativity from the other people drawn in by the initial experience. Maybe there's a way to get one without the other, but all I can tell you is the current approach is not a way to get there.

Dafatone
Are you certain this is still the case? Cause it was fading in my day (2005-2007) at least in sections D and F, and that seems to be getting worse.

I am not sure. It could be that the usher contract was re-bid to the Nazis.

IMHO, as a former long, long post-grad Section C season ticket holder, the cordoning off of C to non-students in the late 80's was the beginning of the end of Lynah's unique crowd experience. I would like to think that those of us who transitioned our C student tickets kept at least a slight sinuous connection between B and D for a while, but that had definitely faded by the late 90's. Returning that section to the students (giving current holders the option of grandfathering their seats but taking their chances) would restore the "wall of sound" that made Lynah at times deafening. It would also remove the need to have to patrol that section and its neighbors for predations against the old and young.

It wasn't always a paradise, BTW. Even in the "silver age" of Lynah (post-GA but pre-gutting-of-C) there were long stretches when even though the rink was loud the chants were boring and needlessly disgusting (the objection isn't to profanity, but lack of imagination). But (1) it was almost always loud, and (2) almost always people were trying out new things. I leave it to current ticket holders to say whether either of those things is still true.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky
So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation. As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old. The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

Yeah, sure. It's the Warsaw Ghetto. We get it, who is John Galt.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Trotsky
So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation. As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old. The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

Yeah, sure. It's the Warsaw Ghetto. We get it, who is John Galt.

Wow, ad hominem. You're on a roll. There are another 100 or so fallacies listed on Wikipedia; it might be an interesting challenge to hit them all in one thread.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Trotsky
So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation. As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old. The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

Yeah, sure. It's the Warsaw Ghetto. We get it, who is John Galt.

Wow, ad hominem. You're on a roll. There are another 100 or so fallacies listed on Wikipedia; it might be an interesting challenge to hit them all in one thread.

Wow, incorrect use of ad hominem, which is an attack on a person, not an argument.

To help you out, this is ad hominem: I'd be a lot more likely to take you seriously if EVERYTHING you had written the last ten years didn't sound like a screen test for The Last Fellation of Murray Rothbard.

Trotsky
To help you out, this is ad hominem: I'd be a lot more likely to take you seriously if EVERYTHING you had written the last ten years didn't sound like a screen test for The Last Fellation of Murray Rothbard.

So you're not disputing my argument, then? Glad we got that cleared up: it's long past time you admitted you were wrong on this.

Trotsky
It wasn't always a paradise, BTW. Even in the "silver age" of Lynah (post-GA but pre-gutting-of-C) there were long stretches when even though the rink was loud the chants were boring and needlessly disgusting (the objection isn't to profanity, but lack of imagination). But (1) it was almost always loud, and (2) almost always people were trying out new things. I leave it to current ticket holders to say whether either of those things is still true.

Ah-ha! I take exception. The late 90s, on the rebound from the miserable mid 90s, were a return to irreverent, creative mob humor in Lynah—prodded along, I would like to think, at first by the pepband, which had never lost faith, and then taking on a life of its own. Certainly a continuation of the "silver age," as you say. When did it all change? I think humor declined precipitously after 2005, and noise is now following suit.

We are sick, we are sick, 
We are sick, sick, sick, 
Like we're sociologically sick!

Who do I blame? (1) Society. (2) Technology. (3) Economy.

(1) A sheep-like generation, taught to be so by their hovering parents. Don't offend; don't get out of line. Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason, honey...
(2) Difficult to come up with great extemporaneous humor when you're watching YouTube vide... Look at what those cats are doing!!!111
(3) Reinforcing (1), who wants to step out of line when anything you do might possibly impinge upon your uncertain, bleak economic prospects? And the rent, it's "too damn high!"

PS Whoever thought it a great idea to remain silent while the color guard leaves the ice didn't think through the chilling effect this practice has on the crowd. (Indeed, why is the color guard more than a couple steps on the ice in the first place? In my memories, they pretty much took one step onto the ice and did their business from there.)

I'm all about honoring the troops: I have a few former and current particular "troops" very frequently in mind, actually. But I think this particular tradition constitutes a very weird way to honor anybody. A moment of silence at the start of every game? What "troop" would want that? Not the ones I know, living or dead.

Whatever you think about our military operations in the Middle East, I just hope that we can commemorate the end of our formal role in the conflicts there with a return to status quo ante bellum with regard to this crowd-dampening "tradition." Honor the troops daily by helping them re-acclimate themselves to civilian society; otherwise, have a moment of silence on Memorial Day and get on with your lives.

Scersk '97

Trotsky
It wasn't always a paradise, BTW. Even in the "silver age" of Lynah (post-GA but pre-gutting-of-C) there were long stretches when even though the rink was loud the chants were boring and needlessly disgusting (the objection isn't to profanity, but lack of imagination). But (1) it was almost always loud, and (2) almost always people were trying out new things. I leave it to current ticket holders to say whether either of those things is still true.

(1) A sheep-like generation, taught to be so by their hovering parents. Don't offend; don't get out of line. Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason, honey...

Let me just point out that I think too much is blamed on generations, how parents raise kids, and how kids are, and not enough is blamed on society/people as a whole.

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people. "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Dafatone
Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people. "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Just look at the TSA, the agency that defines the tradeoff of liberty for illusory safety. There's too much authority worship in the US nowadays. (Whoops, I'd better watch: I'm probably sounding too much like Rothbard for Greg's tastes. Better goose-step a bit and say how much I love our federal overlords. I *LOVE* the Leader! Na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na LEA-DER!)

Dafatone
Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people. "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

I'll raise my fist to that but still disagree. I just think it's getting worse, not better.

Kyle Rose

Dafatone
Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people. "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Just look at the TSA, the agency that defines the tradeoff of liberty for illusory safety. There's too much authority worship in the US nowadays. (Whoops, I'd better watch: I'm probably sounding too much like Rothbard for Greg's tastes. Better goose-step a bit and say how much I love our federal overlords. I *LOVE* the Leader! Na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na LEA-DER!)

Personally, I don't think the authority worship is as government related as it is media/structural. Lots of people are really angry at the government, but many of those same people have their own structures of authority (news organizations, organized angry internet groups, online college hockey forums) to adhere to.

Dafatone

Kyle Rose

Dafatone
Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people. "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Just look at the TSA, the agency that defines the tradeoff of liberty for illusory safety. There's too much authority worship in the US nowadays. (Whoops, I'd better watch: I'm probably sounding too much like Rothbard for Greg's tastes. Better goose-step a bit and say how much I love our federal overlords. I *LOVE* the Leader! Na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na LEA-DER!)

Personally, I don't think the authority worship is as government related as it is media/structural. Lots of people are really angry at the government, but many of those same people have their own structures of authority (news organizations, organized angry internet groups, online college hockey forums) to adhere to.

Agreed 100%: I didn't mean to suggest that this authority worship is limited to government. It's a general problem that people are too worried (in many cases, rightfully so) that rocking the boat will screw them in some way.

Scersk '97

Dafatone
Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people. "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

I'll raise my fist to that but still disagree. I just think it's getting worse, not better.

Well, the first rule of misanthropy is don't criticize the tongue lashing of one group of people just because it singles them out.

I can think of no reason why "kids today" would be any better, worse, or different than kids in my day or even those few brief years before me just after the Earth's crust had cooled. There is nothing new under the sun, so perhaps naively I think if we recreated the physical conditions* of the early Lynah the social psychology would follow.

(* perhaps the secret all along was the gross bathrooms? We could try that again.)

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

Wow. The traditional sit/stand battle-line has been Section G (see my own post linked below). That it has been very quickly pushed to Section D (leaping over even F and E) suprises me a lot.

[elf.elynah.com]

Scersk '97
When did it all change? I think humor declined precipitously after 2005, and noise is now following suit.

What all these data points are suggesting is that Lynah "declines" 8 years after one has graduated.

RichH

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

Wow. The traditional sit/stand battle-line has been Section G (see my own post linked below). That it has been very quickly pushed to Section D (leaping over even F and E) suprises me a lot.

[elf.elynah.com]

The last few times I was there (2 seasons ago), E was regularly half-empty until people migrated over there slowly in the second period. So, given last year's performance, it doesn't shock me that this trait might have moved into D.

RichH

CowbellGuy
I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

Wow. The traditional sit/stand battle-line has been Section G (see my own post linked below). That it has been very quickly pushed to Section D (leaping over even F and E) suprises me a lot.

[elf.elynah.com]

Seems to me that this line is driven hydraulically by the pressure of the demand for student tickets. We might graph it as "pounds per square win."

Trotsky

Scersk '97
When did it all change? I think humor declined precipitously after 2005, and noise is now following suit.

What all these data points are suggesting is that Lynah "declines" 8 years after one has graduated.

Measurable. # of students, average arrival time, and noise level are all measurable. And at this point all of them are obvious enough not to require an instrument to detect the trend. That said, it might be interesting to gather a collection of photographs of section E over the past 15 years and turn them into a time elapse movie.

Kyle Rose
And for the record, yes, I agree that the ushers are mostly the messengers interpreting and delivering the mandates of the higher-ups. I have no lever that high in University management, however, so I provide feedback where I can. The ushers can go fuck themselves if they target behavior that isn't directly in danger of harming someone else or interfering with the game. Billy will survive hearing some college kids cursing in unison. The Lynah atmosphere has not survived the chilling effect of capricious ejections. The damage has already been done.

Several years ago, I got to Lynah before the doors opened before a Harvard game, and just waiting around in the Bartels linking hallway near the usual ticket-taking spot, I was able to observe the pre-game pep-talk/meeting that Gene held with all the ushers. The general message communicated was along the lines of "Assume every single one of those students is up to No Good. If you aren't finding any Bad Things they're doing/saying, you aren't doing your job. You have the power to remove anybody, and we'll have your back if there's resistance." My interpretation from witnessing that is that they're requiring the usher staff to have an adversarial mindset from the start, and then empowering and expecting them to act on that.

MattS

Josh '99

MattS
On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

But, I mean... how much of that do you put on the coaches and how much on the players? It's not like when the players are coached on power play strategy, they're instructed to pass the puck slowly and hesitantly. If anything, tinkering with the guys on the different power play units will just make this problem worse.

So you're answer is to do nothing and hope it gets better? It's not like this is a new problem. CU hasn't had a decent PP in about 4 years. Yes, I know it's early and call me reactionary or whatever, but I am tired of watching the same old PP that basically stinks. I think it's a mess and there is plenty of blame to go around to both the coaches and players. However, ultimately it's up to Schafer to devise a scheme that uses the talents of the players in such a way that puts them in the best position to succeed. I obviously have some thoughts on it, but ultimately it's Schafer's problem to fix and so far he has not done it.

No, I don't know that I'd simply say "do nothing," but I don't know that I'd start making major changes yet either when the power play is 8/27 over the first four games of the season.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

Scersk '97
When did it all change? I think humor declined precipitously after 2005, and noise is now following suit.

What all these data points are suggesting is that Lynah "declines" 8 years after one has graduated.

Measurable. # of students, average arrival time, and noise level are all measurable. And at this point all of them are obvious enough not to require an instrument to detect the trend. That said, it might be interesting to gather a collection of photographs of section E over the past 15 years and turn them into a time elapse movie.

That would be interesting. My freshman year was the infamous 1992-93 season, and for my first 3 years, I specifically remember Sections E, F, & G being almost completely empty. Remember that one of Schafer's 3 goals for his first season was to "pack Lynah every night." The look of a completely filled horseshoe was incredible the first time I saw it.

I've never known D to be anything other than "standing" except for games in the middle of winter break when they give away tickets to youth groups and other groups.

RichH
Several years ago, I got to Lynah before the doors opened before a Harvard game, and just waiting around in the Bartels linking hallway near the usual ticket-taking spot, I was able to observe the pre-game pep-talk/meeting that Gene held with all the ushers. The general message communicated was along the lines of "Assume every single one of those students is up to No Good. If you aren't finding any Bad Things they're doing/saying, you aren't doing your job. You have the power to remove anybody, and we'll have your back if there's resistance." My interpretation from witnessing that is that they're requiring the usher staff to have an adversarial mindset from the start, and then empowering and expecting them to act on that.

I wish I had witnessed that, and gotten it on tape. Some people will only be convinced by hard evidence.

Scersk '97

Who do I blame? (1) Society. (2) Technology. (3) Economy.

(1) A sheep-like generation, taught to be so by their hovering parents. Don't offend; don't get out of line. Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason, honey...
(2) Difficult to come up with great extemporaneous humor when you're watching YouTube vide... Look at what those cats are doing!!!111
(3) Reinforcing (1), who wants to step out of line when anything you do might possibly impinge upon your uncertain, bleak economic prospects? And the rent, it's "too damn high!"

I don't know where it fits in, but in the context of Faithful-as-Tradition, it was always up to the upperclassmen to teach and pass-down to the frehsmen what to do at games. Between showing up early and just making a constant wall of noise, somewhere along the line, these things have dropped considerably. With a complete turnover of the undergrad sections taking only four years, all it takes is 2 years of lax fans to establish a "this is how it's always been, so this is what I'll teach the newbies" mindset.

To expand your comment on (2), there are natural breaks in hockey games. Instead of "hey, I'll yell something creative/funny to cure me of this current state of waiting-for-something" we (both young and old here) are now conditioned to take our amazing devices out of our pocket and text or check our facetweets at any moment we're wating for something: be it doctors' offices, green lights, or puck drops. For a time, the cellular service inside our beloved tin-can of a rink was non-existent. Now there's plenty of signal! I myself have recieved texts in 3rd periods asking "what are u doing after the game?"

Just wait. Enjoy the game. If you feel bored, provide your own excitement and atmosphere right there in the chilled air. I swear, it's more fun than an awesome animated .gif.

Even the broadcasters commented during the first period on Saturday night about how quiet the crowd was.

PS Whoever thought it a great idea to remain silent while the color guard leaves the ice didn't think through the chilling effect this practice has on the crowd.

Interesting. I remember big "LGR!" chants going up immediately after "Brave." I also remember opposing fans calling our team "classless" (yeah! Internet insult!!) for starting their post-anthem skate before the color guard was off the ice while the opponent remained at attention on the blue line until the flags were removed from the ice. I don't know how I feel about either way, because I guess I don't think it's very important. If you (read: I) really think about it, it's somewhat silly that we play national anthems before every sporting contest. But, hey, tradition.

Josh '99

MattS

Josh '99

MattS
On a very serious question, how can Schafer watch a PP like Q has (or anyone that is decent) then watch CU's PP and not make some kind of changes? Is it possible to have slower passing between the three men who are up high? Q's passing was crisp and quick, while CU's was slow and hesitant. Something has got to change.

But, I mean... how much of that do you put on the coaches and how much on the players? It's not like when the players are coached on power play strategy, they're instructed to pass the puck slowly and hesitantly. If anything, tinkering with the guys on the different power play units will just make this problem worse.

So you're answer is to do nothing and hope it gets better? It's not like this is a new problem. CU hasn't had a decent PP in about 4 years. Yes, I know it's early and call me reactionary or whatever, but I am tired of watching the same old PP that basically stinks. I think it's a mess and there is plenty of blame to go around to both the coaches and players. However, ultimately it's up to Schafer to devise a scheme that uses the talents of the players in such a way that puts them in the best position to succeed. I obviously have some thoughts on it, but ultimately it's Schafer's problem to fix and so far he has not done it.

No, I don't know that I'd simply say "do nothing," but I don't know that I'd start making major changes yet either when the power play is 8/27 over the first four games of the season.

Fair enough. I am maybe being too quick to want changes, but what I saw at both games this weekend were the same issues that have plagued the PP unit for the past 4 years or so. I think that the PP against UNO and Princeton is not what we can expect and that what we saw against QU is what we can expect. Time will tell and I just hope I am wishing I never wrote this come the end of the season.

RichH
I don't know where it fits in, but in the context of Faithful-as-Tradition, it was always up to the upperclassmen to teach and pass-down to the frehsmen what to do at games. Between showing up early and just making a constant wall of noise, somewhere along the line, these things have dropped considerably. With a complete turnover of the undergrad sections taking only four years, all it takes is 2 years of lax fans to establish a "this is how it's always been, so this is what I'll teach the newbies" mindset.

The interesting thing is, the crowd has died before. During 94 and 95, as the team was struggling, student support began to evaporate. There was a point at which the townies were probably more actively engaged in the game than the students. The Schafer renaissance brought back the energy but there was a discontinuity in many traditions. IIRC this was also around the time when the ECAC moved game times from 7:30 and 7:00 and we were arguing over at hockey-l about whether that was why students stopped coming early. That was also when some cheers died off (anybody remember "Fight, Maim, Kill!"?) and others started: the Schafer song, of course, but I think that may have been about the time when remote control goalie started up, Dieeeeeeeeeeeeeee! got its extra 20 beats, etc.

So while it's true that the Lynah spirit is transmitted deliberately "To you from failing hands we throw. The torch; be yours to hold it high," a bad stretch doesn't kill it entirely, it just goes underground. Or perhaps there is enough institutional memory in the pep band and the continuity of frat relationships that we have bridges across the bad times.

Trotsky
Well, the first rule of misanthropy is don't criticize the tongue lashing of one group of people just because it singles them out.

I can think of no reason why "kids today" would be any better, worse, or different than kids in my day or even those few brief years before me just after the Earth's crust had cooled. There is nothing new under the sun, so perhaps naively I think if we recreated the physical conditions* of the early Lynah the social psychology would follow.

(* perhaps the secret all along was the gross bathrooms? We could try that again.)

Structuralist. . (.)

PS Leaning bar; standing room.

Trotsky
That was also when some cheers died off (anybody remember "Fight, Maim, Kill!"?)...

Not so! That—the only good thing trumpets have inflicted on Lynah in quite some time—was still strong at least when I was there.

Trotsky
...and others started: the Schafer song, of course, but I think that may have been about the time when remote control goalie started up, Dieeeeeeeeeeeeeee! got its extra 20 beats, etc.

Remote control goalie was brilliant—brilliant!—at first but has sadly devolved. The "kids these days" don't seem to understand that the point is not to drone on moronically but rather to ape the opposing goalie's routine in such a way as to insinuate ourselves as an irritant in what otherwise serves him as a means of maintaining focus. The second the goalie modifies his routine to "play with us," we know he is thinking about us and not the game. That is what we want.

A psychological weapon has been lost. Ask Dartmouth's Nick Boucher.

Trotsky
So while it's true that the Lynah spirit is transmitted deliberately "To you from failing hands we throw. The torch; be yours to hold it high," a bad stretch doesn't kill it entirely, it just goes underground. Or perhaps there is enough institutional memory in the pep band and the continuity of frat relationships that we have bridges across the bad times.

They watch the band like hawks these days. What you write of is exactly what I worry has been beaten out of them.

Students want to get trashed and go to hockey games. I don't know if overbearing ushers or something else is the problem, but it's not the same as it was just a few years ago. I repeat: I have NEVER seen Section D not entirely standing in my many years following this team. E has always been standing too, but you can just forget about that now. Six years ago, even F was standing. Lynah is quieter now than it has ever been. Players come to Cornell to play largely because of the Faithful. If we lose that aspect of the hockey program, we can just start handing the ECAC championship to Yale and Quinnipiac.

Scersk '97

Trotsky
That was also when some cheers died off (anybody remember "Fight, Maim, Kill!"?)...

Not so! That—the only good thing trumpets have inflicted on Lynah in quite some time—was still strong at least when I was there.

It died somewhere along the line when I was in school, probably the '00 or '01 seasons. It was played when I got there. By '02 I think it was completely gone.

Chris '03

Scersk '97

Trotsky
That was also when some cheers died off (anybody remember "Fight, Maim, Kill!"?)...

Not so! That—the only good thing trumpets have inflicted on Lynah in quite some time—was still strong at least when I was there.

It died somewhere along the line when I was in school, probably the '00 or '01 seasons. It was played when I got there. By '02 I think it was completely gone.

Sic transit gloria tubarum.

I'm amazed, I come back to this after my patients have left and there are 34 new posts. Many of them are talking about how bad the student involvement is and how terrible the ushers are, and that those 2 are cause and effect. Yet no one has pointed to any specific example of bad usher behavior this year, or even last year it seems. I know that one of the offending ushers is now at a townie section, since he always used to tell me that I couldn't throw candy, as I was taking it to the band. I also have't seen the ushers running up and down the stairs, looking for bad behavior, like they used to. Maybe it's still all bad ushers, but until someone tells me of current problems, I have to think it's more a student issue.

Most of this can be cured by the team winning; I don't think it's a surprise that we are talking about this after the terrible year we had last season. Put that together with a relatively dry spell of championships and you've got a recipie for quietness and sparse crowds.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

Scersk '97
When did it all change? I think humor declined precipitously after 2005, and noise is now following suit.

What all these data points are suggesting is that Lynah "declines" 8 years after one has graduated.

Measurable. # of students, average arrival time, and noise level are all measurable. And at this point all of them are obvious enough not to require an instrument to detect the trend. That said, it might be interesting to gather a collection of photographs of section E over the past 15 years and turn them into a time elapse movie.

It would be more interesting than this thread....

Regarding enthusiasm:

1. Trotsky started this thread on the day of the Q game at 4:13 that afternoon. It was the only post before game time. MattS posted the only in-game post, shortly after the game started. (Tweets are a horse of another color.) MattS also posted the first post-game post. Between Matt's post at 10:24 and the next morning, there were 9 posts by 7 different people. One of these, Trotsky's, mentioned the fan enthusiasm, and then the thread shifted its focus. This is hardly indicative of overwhelming interest by the e-Lynah faithful! So maybe we should look in the mirror.

2. As for he sociological-technological determinist explanations for fan apathy, what's the atmosphere like these days at Cameron Indoor? Or, don't they have smartphones in Durham? I haven't been back to Lynah for a game since I gave up my season tickets and moved to Cambridge in 1969. But I think the team's inability to scale the heights of the ECACHL and be a serious NCAA contender over the past few years, along perhaps with the shitty attitude of the ushers, has more explanatory power.

Just my $0.02.

Swampy
Regarding enthusiasm:

1. Trotsky started this thread on the day of the Q game at 4:13 that afternoon. It was the only post before game time. MattS posted the only in-game post, shortly after the game started. (Tweets are a horse of another color.) MattS also posted the first post-game post. Between Matt's post at 10:24 and the next morning, there were 9 posts by 7 different people. One of these, Trotsky's, mentioned the fan enthusiasm, and then the thread shifted its focus. This is hardly indicative of overwhelming interest by the e-Lynah faithful! So maybe we should look in the mirror.

2. As for he sociological-technological determinist explanations for fan apathy, what's the atmosphere like these days at Cameron Indoor? Or, don't they have smartphones in Durham? I haven't been back to Lynah for a game since I gave up my season tickets and moved to Cambridge in 1969. But I think the team's inability to scale the heights of the ECACHL and be a serious NCAA contender over the past few years, along perhaps with the shitty attitude of the ushers, has more explanatory power.

Just my $0.02.

I still chuckle at the people here who think Yale winning the National Championship is a good thing for Cornell.

BearLover

Swampy
Regarding enthusiasm:

1. Trotsky started this thread on the day of the Q game at 4:13 that afternoon. It was the only post before game time. MattS posted the only in-game post, shortly after the game started. (Tweets are a horse of another color.) MattS also posted the first post-game post. Between Matt's post at 10:24 and the next morning, there were 9 posts by 7 different people. One of these, Trotsky's, mentioned the fan enthusiasm, and then the thread shifted its focus. This is hardly indicative of overwhelming interest by the e-Lynah faithful! So maybe we should look in the mirror.

2. As for he sociological-technological determinist explanations for fan apathy, what's the atmosphere like these days at Cameron Indoor? Or, don't they have smartphones in Durham? I haven't been back to Lynah for a game since I gave up my season tickets and moved to Cambridge in 1969. But I think the team's inability to scale the heights of the ECACHL and be a serious NCAA contender over the past few years, along perhaps with the shitty attitude of the ushers, has more explanatory power.

Just my $0.02.

I still chuckle at the people here who think Yale winning the National Championship is a good thing for Cornell.

There are bad parts to it, but it's nice to see the ECAC do well. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other.

Swampy
As for he sociological-technological determinist explanations for fan apathy, what's the atmosphere like these days at Cameron Indoor?

Not as good as it used to be.

Declining student attendance/enthusiasm is a problem at all levels of college athletics. Even Nick Saban is shaking things up at Alabama.

The "Lynah Experience" has been deminished for quite some time now. It goes back at least to the renovation of Lynah. Students are less vocal and engaged. Local interest has been priced out of season tickets. Hell they can't even sell out the place unless Harvard is in town. I'm afriad the state of affairs in the new norm.

I've sat on the townie side in N for 22 years now. I too notice less noise and enthusiasm compared to earlier.
Including on the Townie side. I see folks on their electronic pocket device even during the play of the game - even communicating with friends/family in another section rather than cheering.

I think a nice electronic baffle closing Lynah off the air might help ...

But it is definitely changed and not positive to me - I try to start a LGR cheer and 12 years ago 20 or 30 folks in my section would join in, not today. Maybe we need to get some small groups of eLynah folks to move their season tickets to sections together so we can act as noise initiators ...
Although still would be nicer if students section was loud and supportive more of the time.

profudge
I've sat on the townie side in N for 22 years now. I too notice less noise and enthusiasm compared to earlier.
Including on the Townie side. I see folks on their electronic pocket device even during the play of the game - even communicating with friends/family in another section rather than cheering.

I think a nice electronic baffle closing Lynah off the air might help ...

But it is definitely changed and not positive to me - I try to start a LGR cheer and 12 years ago 20 or 30 folks in my section would join in, not today. Maybe we need to get some small groups of eLynah folks to move their season tickets to sections together so we can act as noise initiators ...
Although still would be nicer if students section was loud and supportive more of the time.

I do think phones have a lot to do with it. But like you said, it's not kids, it's everyone. I went to an NBA game with my dad a year ago, and was amazed that he spent more time looking at his phone than the game.

Is there any reason student season tickets need to be $230? I'm confident they would sell out if they were cheaper. If the tickets are selling anyway, then sure, $230 is fine. But they aren't, and every other sport is totally free, which makes no sense. Who makes this decision, anyway?

profudge
I've sat on the townie side in N for 22 years now. I too notice less noise and enthusiasm compared to earlier.
Including on the Townie side. I see folks on their electronic pocket device even during the play of the game - even communicating with friends/family in another section rather than cheering.

I think a nice electronic baffle closing Lynah off the air might help ...

But it is definitely changed and not positive to me - I try to start a LGR cheer and 12 years ago 20 or 30 folks in my section would join in, not today. Maybe we need to get some small groups of eLynah folks to move their season tickets to sections together so we can act as noise initiators ...
Although still would be nicer if students section was loud and supportive more of the time.

As I've said many times, I think it would be a big lift to the teams if the student sections were FULL and loud at the beginning of the game. What must that say to the players when the fans can make their way to the rink in time for the game?

I know today's fans are used to that lame practive. Some of we oldtimers come from an era when the rink was full and VERY loud when the players hit the ice. Call me old-fashioned. But, I have to believe that gives the team a lift.

Kyle Rose

RichH
Several years ago, I got to Lynah before the doors opened before a Harvard game, and just waiting around in the Bartels linking hallway near the usual ticket-taking spot, I was able to observe the pre-game pep-talk/meeting that Gene held with all the ushers. The general message communicated was along the lines of "Assume every single one of those students is up to No Good. If you aren't finding any Bad Things they're doing/saying, you aren't doing your job. You have the power to remove anybody, and we'll have your back if there's resistance." My interpretation from witnessing that is that they're requiring the usher staff to have an adversarial mindset from the start, and then empowering and expecting them to act on that.

I wish I had witnessed that, and gotten it on tape. Some people will only be convinced by hard evidence.

Well, hopefully most of us will only be convinced by hard evidence. But had I witnessed that my impression would be significantly changed, and I trust Rich as an objective witness, so, yes, I am starting to waver in my intuition that the guilt is shared. Perhaps the ushers have gotten much worse since my time there.

Dafatone
I do think phones have a lot to do with it. But like you said, it's not kids, it's everyone. I went to an NBA game with my dad a year ago, and was amazed that he spent more time looking at his phone than the game.

I went to a Calder Cup finals game in Toronto a couple of years ago. It amazed me the number of people who paid $50 to sit in an arena seat, ignore the game, & play with their phones.

I suppose they paid some attention to the game & called it multi-tasking. I called it lunacy.

I don't even carry my phone into Lynah. Don't want to be bothered during a Cornell game!!!

redice
Some of we oldtimers come from an era when the rink was full and VERY loud when the players hit the ice. Call me old-fashioned. But, I have to believe that gives the team a lift.

It's not old-fashioned, it's verifiable. Many, MANY players have said repeatedly over the years, both in public (where you'd expect it for PR reasons) and in private, that they loved playing at Lynah because of the atmosphere. Many opposing players have said the same, even crossing the line to fault their own fans for failing to provide the same support. Many of our players have said the atmosphere helped sway them to accept Cornell's offer of admission in preference to other schools', particularly our rivals. That means losing the atmosphere reduces the quality of the team, both in the players' enthusiasm if they come here, and even the likelihood of them coming here at all.

Fans routinely overvalue their contribution to their team's performance -- that is part of being a fan -- but in the case of Cornell hockey it appears to be warranted.

profudge
I've sat on the townie side in N for 22 years now. I too notice less noise and enthusiasm compared to earlier.
Including on the Townie side. I see folks on their electronic pocket device even during the play of the game - even communicating with friends/family in another section rather than cheering.

I think a nice electronic baffle closing Lynah off the air might help ...

But it is definitely changed and not positive to me - I try to start a LGR cheer and 12 years ago 20 or 30 folks in my section would join in, not today. Maybe we need to get some small groups of eLynah folks to move their season tickets to sections together so we can act as noise initiators ...
Although still would be nicer if students section was loud and supportive more of the time.

But that would probably make the video feed so much worse for those of us not in Ithaca!

It is a sign of society. I work on a medical school campus and everyone has their phones/tablets out during seminars and lectures and most don't even bother to turn off their ringer. Very annoying. These are PHDs, MDs and their trainees.

So, to sum up:

(1) Students are self-absorbed prats.
(2) Students don't care enough about the games to get there early or even on-time.
(3) Phones are the debil.
(4) The AD and their usher thugs are tyrants who want to sacrifice atmosphere for atmosphere.
(5) Cornell is no longer the big fish in a small pond.

It's death by a thousand cuts. Not one of the above is enough of a problem by itself (e.g., when has #1 not ever been true?), but taken together they have eliminated most of the Lynah edge.

Back to 11/2 Quinnipiac...........how did the Clifton brothers look (on the ice, playing hockey, for you literal folks)? Connor looked like a beast as a junior player. My son sometimes plays spring hockey with his younger brother, I'm just curious how they looked at the D1 level.

redice
I suppose they paid some attention to the game & called it multi-tasking. I called it lunacy.

Me too.

This is the first real gen gap thing where I've felt I was stranded irreparably on the other side and simply can never understand. To me it looks like missing out on life, but I'm sure our parents felt that way about email and their parents felt that way about television and their parents felt that way about radio and on and on. It's all been downhill since fire.

Rita
It is a sign of society. I work on a medical school campus and everyone has their phones/tablets out during seminars and lectures and most don't even bother to turn off their ringer. Very annoying. These are PHDs, MDs and their trainees.

Yikes. Remind me to stick to doctors who graduated before 2000.

profudge
I've sat on the townie side in N for 22 years now. I too notice less noise and enthusiasm compared to earlier.
Including on the Townie side. I see folks on their electronic pocket device even during the play of the game - even communicating with friends/family in another section rather than cheering.

I think a nice electronic baffle closing Lynah off the air might help ...

But it is definitely changed and not positive to me - I try to start a LGR cheer and 12 years ago 20 or 30 folks in my section would join in, not today. Maybe we need to get some small groups of eLynah folks to move their season tickets to sections together so we can act as noise initiators ...
Although still would be nicer if students section was loud and supportive more of the time.

I agree about the phones thing. There is a woman who sits in front of me who has her phone out the whole game texting. The only time I think she looks up from it is when the crowd cheers for a goal.

I can remember a day when say a player like Burgdorfer (sp?) would came into Lynah after his hit on Bardreau and he would have been mercilessly heckled, but what, he was booed a few times and then that was it from the students. Pathetic. Although, myself and one other gentleman who sits in M would chant "Burgdorfer Sucks!" evertime he came back to the bench. This was much to my wife's embarrasment as apparently I am "too old" for such specific heckling. Pft!

profudge - If you want/can move your seats over to M next season, then my wife and I and two other couples who sit nearby will happily join you in any cheers you would like to start. We could use the help!

Q just lost a blue chip freshman to the CHL.

Does anyone know who is in charge of hockey ticket decisions? I'd like to write them an email.

BearLover
Does anyone know who is in charge of hockey ticket decisions? I'd like to write them an email.

Write to Andy Noel and cc coach Schafer. Repeat in April.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

RichH
Several years ago, I got to Lynah before the doors opened before a Harvard game, and just waiting around in the Bartels linking hallway near the usual ticket-taking spot, I was able to observe the pre-game pep-talk/meeting that Gene held with all the ushers. The general message communicated was along the lines of "Assume every single one of those students is up to No Good. If you aren't finding any Bad Things they're doing/saying, you aren't doing your job. You have the power to remove anybody, and we'll have your back if there's resistance." My interpretation from witnessing that is that they're requiring the usher staff to have an adversarial mindset from the start, and then empowering and expecting them to act on that.

I wish I had witnessed that, and gotten it on tape. Some people will only be convinced by hard evidence.

Well, hopefully most of us will only be convinced by hard evidence. But had I witnessed that my impression would be significantly changed, and I trust Rich as an objective witness, so, yes, I am starting to waver in my intuition that the guilt is shared. Perhaps the ushers have gotten much worse since my time there.

But again I'll say, that was "several years ago". Unless it's still a problem, why are we still bringing it up? Are we looking for a reason, when the reason is us (the fans) and the team (not winning)?

Maybe if we had more of this we'd have more cheering?

Jim Hyla

But again I'll say, that was "several years ago".

And on that note, there has been at least one clear relaxation of usher-enforced Lynah policy in the last few years. For several years, but not the last few, the ushers were instructed to go down to the glass and observe the students before the start of the third period, during "Gary Glitter" to make sure no one was using the "harsher" language. That hasn't been happening for at least a couple of years now.

Proposed first step for a fix: make the Harvard game GA. You need a ticket to get in, but you can sit anywhere- that isn't full.

Start the tradition of showing up early at that game, move on from there.

Jim Hyla

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

RichH
Several years ago, I got to Lynah before the doors opened before a Harvard game, and just waiting around in the Bartels linking hallway near the usual ticket-taking spot, I was able to observe the pre-game pep-talk/meeting that Gene held with all the ushers. The general message communicated was along the lines of "Assume every single one of those students is up to No Good. If you aren't finding any Bad Things they're doing/saying, you aren't doing your job. You have the power to remove anybody, and we'll have your back if there's resistance." My interpretation from witnessing that is that they're requiring the usher staff to have an adversarial mindset from the start, and then empowering and expecting them to act on that.

I wish I had witnessed that, and gotten it on tape. Some people will only be convinced by hard evidence.

Well, hopefully most of us will only be convinced by hard evidence. But had I witnessed that my impression would be significantly changed, and I trust Rich as an objective witness, so, yes, I am starting to waver in my intuition that the guilt is shared. Perhaps the ushers have gotten much worse since my time there.

But again I'll say, that was "several years ago". Unless it's still a problem, why are we still bringing it up? Are we looking for a reason, when the reason is us (the fans) and the team (not winning)?

Indeed, indeed. This was "several years ago," when there was more of an issue with the ushering staff being overbearing police in the student sections. It was also a Harvard game which inherently presents quite a challenge for the staff, we all must admit. I like to think that they want to strike a balance between letting fans have fun and making sure nobody crosses the line, but for that pre-game meeting, I saw an institutional mistrust of the students. I can only hope that that wave of attention has passed and everybody is being treated fairly again. Judging by the lack of ranting on this board recently, that seems to be the case.

I, in my stint as a long-term resident in a "townie" section, have had mostly friendly interactions with ushers. Some grumpy interactions, too, but I'm trying to be fair.

Trotsky
Q just lost a blue chip freshman to the CHL.

I guess the "going to class" part of college didn't work for him.

scoop85

Trotsky
Q just lost a blue chip freshman to the CHL.

I guess the "going to class" part of college didn't work for him.

Since when did Quinnipiac start holding classes?

Jim Hyla
Maybe if we had more of this we'd have more cheering?

That's a bingo. An obvious example: men's basketball attendance barely reached 1,000 before its 3-year Ivy dominance that filled Newman with "Newman Nation" t-shirts and heavy frat participation. Steve Donohue's miraculous success building a WINNING team filled the other 3,500 seats. Not surprisingly, attendance is now significantly down.

Many things noted here might contribute to waning enthusiasm and lower student attendance but remain peripheral to the core issue. In my experience, the majority of students are not die-hards. They attend athletic events to celebrate victory, not to demonstrate support for their struggling school-mates.

Just my $.02

RichH

Kyle Rose
And for the record, yes, I agree that the ushers are mostly the messengers interpreting and delivering the mandates of the higher-ups. I have no lever that high in University management, however, so I provide feedback where I can. The ushers can go fuck themselves if they target behavior that isn't directly in danger of harming someone else or interfering with the game. Billy will survive hearing some college kids cursing in unison. The Lynah atmosphere has not survived the chilling effect of capricious ejections. The damage has already been done.

Several years ago, I got to Lynah before the doors opened before a Harvard game, and just waiting around in the Bartels linking hallway near the usual ticket-taking spot, I was able to observe the pre-game pep-talk/meeting that Gene held with all the ushers. The general message communicated was along the lines of "Assume every single one of those students is up to No Good. If you aren't finding any Bad Things they're doing/saying, you aren't doing your job. You have the power to remove anybody, and we'll have your back if there's resistance." My interpretation from witnessing that is that they're requiring the usher staff to have an adversarial mindset from the start, and then empowering and expecting them to act on that.

So in other words, Gene was being Gene. /shudder

Townie

Jim Hyla
Maybe if we had more of this we'd have more cheering?

That's a bingo. An obvious example: men's basketball attendance barely reached 1,000 before its 3-year Ivy dominance that filled Newman with "Newman Nation" t-shirts and heavy frat participation. Steve Donohue's miraculous success building a WINNING team filled the other 3,500 seats. Not surprisingly, attendance is now significantly down.

Many things noted here might contribute to waning enthusiasm and lower student attendance but remain peripheral to the core issue. In my experience, the majority of students are not die-hards. They attend athletic events to celebrate victory, not to demonstrate support for their struggling school-mates.

I would buy this as a plausible argument except that Lynah has been getting emptier and quieter at a pretty even clip. I would attend 1-3 weekends a year for about 8 years between 2004 and 2012, and over that time the crowd kept getting lamer (fewer students, emptier sections, students arriving later, students losing sync on the chants, chants getting increasingly banal and less creative, quieter, less energy overall, etc.), something that may have been obvious to me because I saw games so infrequently compared with frogs experiencing the boil slowly. It didn't seem to correlate especially much with the team's performance. To wit, I suspect if Cornell went on a tear and won the ECAC this year, next year's student section would definitely be larger, but would otherwise continue to be awful.

However, given the anecdote about Cameron, I am more willing to entertain that this is largely a generational thing. Goddamn hipsters are all nihilists. Zey believes in NOSSING!

Kyle Rose
I am more willing to entertain that this is largely a generational thing. Goddamn hipsters are all nihilists. Zey believes in NOSSING!

To be fair, they each have an unshakeable belief in the tremendous importance of one thing.

Townie
In my experience, the majority of students are not die-hards. They attend athletic events to celebrate victory, not to demonstrate support for their struggling school-mates.

And that's true just about everywhere. We are a nation of front-runners and bandwagon jumpers. I can think of many examples, but the one that I'll present here is from the Washington DC Frozen Four in 2009. A few friends and I were talking about how it was too bad that the Nationals weren't in town, as going to baseball on the off-day had become a Frozen Four week tradition of ours. I remember bringing this up to some locals, and the response was "Why do you want go see the Nats? They suck." My answer will always be "because I like baseball, and it's a fun thing to do," but fast-forward a couple years, add a Stephen Strasburg and a Bryce Harper, and suddenly it's all "NATITUDE IN THE DISTRICT!!!!" The majority of people won't go to things unless there's a winner to watch.

Except the Cubs. They'll fill Wrigley for another 100 years, regardless of how bad they are.

RichH
Except the Cubs. They'll fill Wrigley for another 100 years, regardless of how bad they are.

The Washington Soon To Be Formerly Known as the R Words are like this, too. But I don't know of many other teams that can hold a crowd despite a long strong of losing seasons, in any country. Maybe a crowd that's as directed towards hooliganism as towards the team's performance, like Millwall or every Brazilian team down to the 6th division, is impervious to front-running. But all other teams follow P.J. O'Rourke's Fundamental Theorem of Politics: wherever the cutest girls are going, that's who's winning.

The truth is, whatever the DC people seeing in the athletic arena looks/smells a lot better than the political garbage that they have to live most days. Given that reality during the workday, wouldn't that make one want to go to a sporting event and holler.... a lot??

redice
The truth is, whatever the DC people seeing in the athletic arena looks/smells a lot better than the political garbage that they have to live most days. Given that reality during the workday, wouldn't that make one want to go to a sporting event and holler.... a lot??

Congress or the Wizards. It's a tough choice.

(Actually, they both have the same problem: the rest of the country keeps sending us has-beens and criminals.)

Townie

Jim Hyla
Maybe if we had more of this we'd have more cheering?

That's a bingo. An obvious example: men's basketball attendance barely reached 1,000 before its 3-year Ivy dominance that filled Newman with "Newman Nation" t-shirts and heavy frat participation. Steve Donohue's miraculous success building a WINNING team filled the other 3,500 seats. Not surprisingly, attendance is now significantly down.

Many things noted here might contribute to waning enthusiasm and lower student attendance but remain peripheral to the core issue. In my experience, the majority of students are not die-hards. They attend athletic events to celebrate victory, not to demonstrate support for their struggling school-mates.

Just my $.02

Disagree. Most students have no idea how well the hockey team is doing. They use the games as a social event and an excuse to get drunk. I think everyone who really cares is already standing in Section B; it is the sorority girls and the facetimers are gone. I echo the posters who have said it has been a long, steady deterioration. I wrote Noel/Schafer an email; I encourage everyone else to do the same. I don't have an easy solution, but something needs to be done. I think it starts by decreasing ticket prices and making more sections GA.

We can't let Lynah die.