Cornell @ Clark

What were you guys just saying about the refs last night?


Shame CU dominating before 5 minute major.

flyersgolf
What were you guys just saying about the refs last night?


Shame CU dominating before 5 minute major.

Bad hit by Lowry or bad refing? How many times can CU shoot themselves in the foot before they stop this nonsense?

Shut it down.

It's increasingly looking like the @Lynah East game is going to be the Toilet Bowl of the ECAC. Maybe the Big Red can at least make it entertaining.

#DagsFault

4-8-2 in ECAC. The "warmth" chart now projects out cold to at least week 17.

To paraphrase Nicholas Von Hoffman paraphrasing H. R. Haldeman, "a new approach is needed."

There's got to be a pony in there somewhere.

Trotsky
To paraphrase Nicholas Von Hoffman paraphrasing H. R. Haldeman, "a new approach is needed."

At this point I'll settle for a game where we don't take a five-minute major.

billhoward
There's got to be a pony in there somewhere.

I believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.
But, to think that this team is going to do anything in the ECAC tournament this year is to engage in true fantasy.
The only way we'll have home ice advantage is if we bring some with us in a styrofoam cooler.
No, this may well go down in Cornell hockey history as, "The Year of the Box".
Oh, well......I'd like to say there's always next year. At this rate there may not even be that.

Johnny 5
Oh, well......I'd like to say there's always next year.

This is one of those seasons where, in pro sports, the team would wipe the slate clean—fire, trade, or release almost everyone involved—and just start from scratch. Something is terribly wrong, and it's not at all clear where the problem lies.

Kyle Rose

Johnny 5
Oh, well......I'd like to say there's always next year.

This is one of those seasons where, in pro sports, the team would wipe the slate clean—fire, trade, or release almost everyone involved—and just start from scratch. Something is terribly wrong, and it's not at all clear where the problem lies.

It always starts and ends with coaching.

Iles is not among the top 50 goaltenders in the NCAA. He is 12th in the ECAC with a 2.62 GAA. Contrast that with Leneveu, McKee, Scrivens who were 1.0-1.5 and we have a problem. Shafe had Marozzi as a back up last year and he never played one minute. He left before this season and we don't have a qualified backup. In what hockey league does a goalie not get pulled after 6 goals? Team morale suffers and we have seen that. A team with this condition, especially one built on goaltending and defense, is doomed.

LJAbe
Iles is not among the top 50 goaltenders in the NCAA. He is 12th in the ECAC with a 2.62 GAA. Contrast that with Leneveu, McKee, Scrivens who were 1.0-1.5 and we have a problem. Shafe had Marozzi as a back up last year and he never played one minute. He left before this season and we don't have a qualified backup. In what hockey league does a goalie not get pulled after 6 goals? Team morale suffers and we have seen that. A team with this condition, especially one built on goaltending and defense, is doomed.

He doesn't get pulled because 3 of those goals came on a single major. On a team that takes an absurd amount of penalties (most in the country?), many of which are unnecessary and downright dirty. And the PK is one of the worst in the country.

Don't try to pin this on the goalie, numbnuts.

ScrewBU

LJAbe
Iles is not among the top 50 goaltenders in the NCAA. He is 12th in the ECAC with a 2.62 GAA. Contrast that with Leneveu, McKee, Scrivens who were 1.0-1.5 and we have a problem. Shafe had Marozzi as a back up last year and he never played one minute. He left before this season and we don't have a qualified backup. In what hockey league does a goalie not get pulled after 6 goals? Team morale suffers and we have seen that. A team with this condition, especially one built on goaltending and defense, is doomed.

He doesn't get pulled because 3 of those goals came on a single major. On a team that takes an absurd amount of penalties (most in the country?), many of which are unnecessary and downright dirty. And the PK is one of the worst in the country.

Don't try to pin this on the goalie, numbnuts.

No need to get personal. Iles hasn't been very good lately -- the first goal against Brown was definitely his fault, and the OT goal against Yale was at least partially his fault as well. When a team goes 1-8, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Ben

ScrewBU

LJAbe
Iles is not among the top 50 goaltenders in the NCAA. He is 12th in the ECAC with a 2.62 GAA. Contrast that with Leneveu, McKee, Scrivens who were 1.0-1.5 and we have a problem. Shafe had Marozzi as a back up last year and he never played one minute. He left before this season and we don't have a qualified backup. In what hockey league does a goalie not get pulled after 6 goals? Team morale suffers and we have seen that. A team with this condition, especially one built on goaltending and defense, is doomed.

He doesn't get pulled because 3 of those goals came on a single major. On a team that takes an absurd amount of penalties (most in the country?), many of which are unnecessary and downright dirty. And the PK is one of the worst in the country.

Don't try to pin this on the goalie, numbnuts.

No need to get personal. Iles hasn't been very good lately -- the first goal against Brown was definitely his fault, and the OT goal against Yale was at least partially his fault as well. When a team goes 1-8, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Thank you for some sanity.

Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

"Numbnuts" !?!

Can't you see this season is tearing us apart!

Also, when did another La Jolla person get into this?

Trotsky's warmth chart reminds me that I've been absolutely spoiled by a decade of good Cornell teams, and outstanding Cornell goaltending. As we acknowledged that the emphasis on defense doesn't always work, so too must we learn not to rely on Hobey-caliber goalies every year.

How about some forwards who can shoot a backhand?

We have seen bad times before. We have been fortunate compared to other fan bases.

We will survive.

ithacat
Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

I agree, the current situation is not specifically any one individuals fault the accountability is with the coaching staff; having stated that, Iles has had the good fortune of Schafer providing him every opportunity to advance in the spot light. He plays in front of a forest - Wilcox, Esposito, Birch all 6'4", Stoick 6' 3", Dagostino 6'2", Gotovets 5'11". FIVE of our defensemen are DRAFTED. With Schafer's traditional defensive systems, coupled with a highly ranked d core + goalie, the reasonable expectation of Iles is to post numbers far better than he has, as well as see year over year improvements. I am still baffled as to why Mike would risk a Championship projected season and not bring up Gillam - even as a talented goalie stapled to the bench until Iles leaves. Marozzi left on leave in late May or early June plenty of time for the call up. In my opinion Iles is simply an average goalie - lets hope he turns it around quickly and proves me wrong.

jftf1958

ithacat
Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

I agree, the current situation is not specifically any one individuals fault the accountability is with the coaching staff; having stated that, Iles has had the good fortune of Schafer providing him every opportunity to advance in the spot light. He plays in front of a forest - Wilcox, Esposito, Birch all 6'4", Stoick 6' 3", Dagostino 6'2", Gotovets 5'11". FIVE of our defensemen are DRAFTED. With Schafer's traditional defensive systems, coupled with a highly ranked d core + goalie, the reasonable expectation of Iles is to post numbers far better than he has, as well as see year over year improvements. I am still baffled as to why Mike would risk a Championship projected season and not bring up Gillam - even as a talented goalie stapled to the bench until Iles leaves. Marozzi left on leave in late May or early June plenty of time for the call up. In my opinion Iles is simply an average goalie - lets hope he turns it around quickly and proves me wrong.

Just an observation I've made, for a huge team, they really lose a lot of net front battles.

css228

jftf1958

ithacat
Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

I agree, the current situation is not specifically any one individuals fault the accountability is with the coaching staff; having stated that, Iles has had the good fortune of Schafer providing him every opportunity to advance in the spot light. He plays in front of a forest - Wilcox, Esposito, Birch all 6'4", Stoick 6' 3", Dagostino 6'2", Gotovets 5'11". FIVE of our defensemen are DRAFTED. With Schafer's traditional defensive systems, coupled with a highly ranked d core + goalie, the reasonable expectation of Iles is to post numbers far better than he has, as well as see year over year improvements. I am still baffled as to why Mike would risk a Championship projected season and not bring up Gillam - even as a talented goalie stapled to the bench until Iles leaves. Marozzi left on leave in late May or early June plenty of time for the call up. In my opinion Iles is simply an average goalie - lets hope he turns it around quickly and proves me wrong.

Just an observation I've made, for a huge team, they really lose a lot of net front battles.

It could be just my opinion but I think it looks like iles is watching what the players are doing rather than the puck. There has been a few shots this weekend that looked like iles followed the crowed of players and left an open net for the opponent who had the puck.

I'm going to sleep. Wake me up next October please. I can't take it anymore.

carpy85

css228

jftf1958

ithacat
Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

I agree, the current situation is not specifically any one individuals fault the accountability is with the coaching staff; having stated that, Iles has had the good fortune of Schafer providing him every opportunity to advance in the spot light. He plays in front of a forest - Wilcox, Esposito, Birch all 6'4", Stoick 6' 3", Dagostino 6'2", Gotovets 5'11". FIVE of our defensemen are DRAFTED. With Schafer's traditional defensive systems, coupled with a highly ranked d core + goalie, the reasonable expectation of Iles is to post numbers far better than he has, as well as see year over year improvements. I am still baffled as to why Mike would risk a Championship projected season and not bring up Gillam - even as a talented goalie stapled to the bench until Iles leaves. Marozzi left on leave in late May or early June plenty of time for the call up. In my opinion Iles is simply an average goalie - lets hope he turns it around quickly and proves me wrong.

Just an observation I've made, for a huge team, they really lose a lot of net front battles.

It could be just my opinion but I think it looks like iles is watching what the players are doing rather than the puck. There has been a few shots this weekend that looked like iles followed the crowed of players and left an open net for the opponent who had the puck.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with Iles. We lose way too many netfront battles on both sides of the ice. As a result there's no one in on offense effectively screening the net and putting in rebounds, and on defense, we give up way too many easy rebound goals. As I said, for a big team, these guys are really bad in front of the nets. Being big is useless if you don't use your size.

Honestly, they just suck. Almost no one on the entire team can contribute on both ends of the ice. Throw in a subpar year from Iles and idiotic penalties and it's not surprising they're at the bottom of the ECAC. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferlin and Lowry bolt after this season.

BearLover
Honestly, they just suck. Almost no one on the entire team can contribute on both ends of the ice. Throw in a subpar year from Iles and idiotic penalties and it's not surprising they're at the bottom of the ECAC. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferlin and Lowry bolt after this season.

Everyone this year is having a bad year except for Bardreau until he got hurt with a neck fracture. I dont think Ferlin or Lowery will leave after a season like that because all it would do is show the professional leagues that they are quitters when things on the ice get tough. Its a very bad look and no one wants to keep quitters. Matteau from last year is a perfect example.

carpy85

BearLover
Honestly, they just suck. Almost no one on the entire team can contribute on both ends of the ice. Throw in a subpar year from Iles and idiotic penalties and it's not surprising they're at the bottom of the ECAC. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferlin and Lowry bolt after this season.

Everyone this year is having a bad year except for Bardreau until he got hurt with a neck fracture. I dont think Ferlin or Lowery will leave after a season like that because all it would do is show the professional leagues that they are quitters when things on the ice get tough. Its a very bad look and no one wants to keep quitters. Matteau from last year is a perfect example.

Players with serious NHL (or other professional athletics) aspirations have to constantly make decisions about what is best for their careers. The question they have to ask is "Is staying at Cornell for another season the best way to advance my NHL prospects?" A big part of that decision has to hinge on whether they still believe in the program. It is hard to see how another year like this one would be good for a players career.

If they went (and I hope the do not) they would not be the first or last to do so. The are not getting any younger and they are entitled to make rational decisions about their hockey careers.

jftf1958

ithacat
Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

I agree, the current situation is not specifically any one individuals fault the accountability is with the coaching staff; having stated that, Iles has had the good fortune of Schafer providing him every opportunity to advance in the spot light. He plays in front of a forest - Wilcox, Esposito, Birch all 6'4", Stoick 6' 3", Dagostino 6'2", Gotovets 5'11". FIVE of our defensemen are DRAFTED. With Schafer's traditional defensive systems, coupled with a highly ranked d core + goalie, the reasonable expectation of Iles is to post numbers far better than he has, as well as see year over year improvements. I am still baffled as to why Mike would risk a Championship projected season and not bring up Gillam - even as a talented goalie stapled to the bench until Iles leaves. Marozzi left on leave in late May or early June plenty of time for the call up. In my opinion Iles is simply an average goalie - lets hope he turns it around quickly and proves me wrong.

Let's look at a few facts. In ECAC play we've given up 37 goals. That's right in the middle of the pack, not where we should be. But we are only 1 behind leader Clarkson in PPGA, with 17. So almost half of Iles GA are on the PK. The only other teams with stats near that are Clarkson and Q. And Qs are 9 PPGA and 19 GA, so that doesn't count.

Surely you don't expect a goalie to have the same stats on the PK as otherwise. Knock down our PKs and his numbers are a lot better. No Iles is not the problem. He has allowed us to win every game. I don't know of a game where he would have been pulled for poor play, maybe to shake up the team, but not from performance.

As to complaining about not having Gillam "called up". It's not that easy. Do you know he would have come? I can easily imagine he didn't want to come and sit for 2 years. Even if he came, he knows he'd be in backup role. Doing that for 1 year to get used to the league and system is OK, 2 years maybe not.

It's easy to come up with solutions when we don't have all the facts.

css228

carpy85

css228

jftf1958

ithacat
Obviously, the problems are deeper than just the goalie position. A look at the team rankings on a national scale would ruin the best buzz. The good news is college hockey isn't a relegation sport. The bad news is the team is without Cole Bardreau.

PS, the team is 1-7 without Bardreau.

I agree, the current situation is not specifically any one individuals fault the accountability is with the coaching staff; having stated that, Iles has had the good fortune of Schafer providing him every opportunity to advance in the spot light. He plays in front of a forest - Wilcox, Esposito, Birch all 6'4", Stoick 6' 3", Dagostino 6'2", Gotovets 5'11". FIVE of our defensemen are DRAFTED. With Schafer's traditional defensive systems, coupled with a highly ranked d core + goalie, the reasonable expectation of Iles is to post numbers far better than he has, as well as see year over year improvements. I am still baffled as to why Mike would risk a Championship projected season and not bring up Gillam - even as a talented goalie stapled to the bench until Iles leaves. Marozzi left on leave in late May or early June plenty of time for the call up. In my opinion Iles is simply an average goalie - lets hope he turns it around quickly and proves me wrong.

Just an observation I've made, for a huge team, they really lose a lot of net front battles.

It could be just my opinion but I think it looks like iles is watching what the players are doing rather than the puck. There has been a few shots this weekend that looked like iles followed the crowed of players and left an open net for the opponent who had the puck.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with Iles. We lose way too many netfront battles on both sides of the ice. As a result there's no one in on offense effectively screening the net and putting in rebounds, and on defense, we give up way too many easy rebound goals. As I said, for a big team, these guys are really bad in front of the nets. Being big is useless if you don't use your size.

Very good point, and it seems to be true on the other end, too. We aren't as massive up front, but we do have some guys with size, and we seemingly never have guys positioned for deflections or to sweep in rebounds, which would seem like something you'd want when you stand back and cannon from the blueline (or at impossible angles from the goal line extended) all night.

We seem to be taking more shots than we used to, and I am from the Corsi School that in and of itself that's a good start. But any competent goaltender can stop the first shot from the point. We have some good hands guys (Espo, Miller) and some guys who used to be able to corral the puck and protect it from stick checks while moving at the net (Ferlin), but we aren't breeding Hynes - Bâby guys who take the abuse and punish goalies for rebounds.

Another thing is, for a team with size, strength and actually a fair amount of speed, we aren't wearing teams down so that we can have our way with them late. Our calling card for years was NFL style line play where by the latter part of the game the other guys were just tired and sore. Not only are we not taking advantage of our size that way, it actually seems the opposite, where it's us getting outworked, out-hustled and even out-muscled late. We have pretty expensive conditioning facilities; perhaps a few more reps might help the lads?

toddlose
I'm going to sleep. Wake me up next October please. I can't take it anymore.

I just mothballed my CU hockey baseball caps.
Now I'm deleting the Cornell hockey slides from my laptop slide show.

Great-uncle Cletus wants to know if anybody has Lou Reycroft's phone number??

I realize that any kind of criticism constructive or not, opinions or not, if it's about Iles, they are forbidden by some on here.
However, the facts are what they are - stats not just "selected" by conference but rather overall and includes the progression year over year.
Iles was and in my opinon still is over-rated. He is a good, average goalie. It is when your goalie can CONSISTENTLY demonstrate his true value, whether PK situations, weak defense extra quality shots with quality saves is he a superstar, GREAT goalie.. sorry Iles has not been that. As far as Gillam you are right, he saw what happened to Marozzi and probably decided that was not in his best interest for continued development. In fact,
in his recruitment article, he said he was told that he actually may be arriving on the Hill this season in case Iles was going PRO. I think Gillam would have come to "start" as a backup as long as like any other good quality goalie, he would see SOME game time with legitimate healthy competition - and I dont believe Marozzi would have left either if he wasnt stapled to the bench. Again, a team legitimately aspiring to win the Championship this year, you should have a good, quality backup .. Look at Washington Capitals last year.

carpy85

BearLover
Honestly, they just suck. Almost no one on the entire team can contribute on both ends of the ice. Throw in a subpar year from Iles and idiotic penalties and it's not surprising they're at the bottom of the ECAC. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferlin and Lowry bolt after this season.

Everyone this year is having a bad year except for Bardreau until he got hurt with a neck fracture. I dont think Ferlin or Lowery will leave after a season like that because all it would do is show the professional leagues that they are quitters when things on the ice get tough. Its a very bad look and no one wants to keep quitters. Matteau from last year is a perfect example.

The NHL doesn't look at it that way. A bunch of LSU football players left for the NFL after a terrible loss in their bowl game this year. Are they quitters? Was Riley Nash a quitter when he left after a disappointing tournament exit his junior year? Hopefully Ferlin and Lowry feel enough of an obligation toward their teammates to stick around, but a horrific season like this one is not going to help their chances of staying.

I thought it seemed like a panic-driven move to bench so many of our key guys for the Brown game after we lost in OT to a very good Yale team, and had played two reasonably solid periods to boot. I wonder how, if at all, that has affected the locker room.

scoop85
I thought it seemed like a panic-driven move to bench so many of our key guys for the Brown game after we lost in OT to a very good Yale team, and had played two reasonably solid periods to boot. I wonder how, if at all, that has affected the locker room.

I thought it was a good idea to bench guys, I'm just not sure those are the guys I would have chosen to bench (I think repeat offenders of stupidity should get a priority ticket to ride the pine over guys like Lowry).

scoop85
I thought it seemed like a panic-driven move to bench so many of our key guys for the Brown game after we lost in OT to a very good Yale team, and had played two reasonably solid periods to boot. I wonder how, if at all, that has affected the locker room.

There is no way we can know the temperature in the locker-room. Schafer is not Mark Morris -- the benching of so much talent was a radical step for a coach who prides his staff on resolving these issues during the week and not during games. It seems to strongly hint that some players had started to think of themselves as unique little snowflakes, and that won't fly in any locker-room.

I firmly believe 95% of these "intractable" problems will suddenly and magically resolve themselves if they put a couple wins together. We're dealing with 20-year old boys here; it aint Aeschylus.

jftf1958
I realize that any kind of criticism constructive or not, opinions or not, if it's about Iles, they are forbidden by some on here.
However, the facts are what they are - stats not just "selected" by conference but rather overall and includes the progression year over year.
Iles was and in my opinon still is over-rated. He is a good, average goalie. It is when your goalie can CONSISTENTLY demonstrate his true value, whether PK situations, weak defense extra quality shots with quality saves is he a superstar, GREAT goalie.. sorry Iles has not been that. As far as Gillam you are right, he saw what happened to Marozzi and probably decided that was not in his best interest for continued development. In fact,
in his recruitment article, he said he was told that he actually may be arriving on the Hill this season in case Iles was going PRO. I think Gillam would have come to "start" as a backup as long as like any other good quality goalie, he would see SOME game time with legitimate healthy competition - and I dont believe Marozzi would have left either if he wasnt stapled to the bench. Again, a team legitimately aspiring to win the Championship this year, you should have a good, quality backup .. Look at Washington Capitals last year.

I put up some facts, you don't like my conclusion. OK, but what are the facts that you are talking about? I used ECAC results, as it seems to be a more accurate way to compare. You don't like that, present your own facts. Don't just say mine are "selected", as if I used them in an odd way. Comparing goalies year to year, especially over decades, is difficult at best. I'd hope that everyone, well that's probably too strong a hope, would agree that we are no longer playing the same tight defensive style that was present 5-10 years ago. That can change stats. And many of those Hobey goalies we had flamed out in the pros. Maybe part of their sucess was "It's the system".

I've never said that Iles was a great goalie, very good, yes. My point was, and is, that the problem this year is not his fault. If you think you're going to pick up a goalie who will do just as well on the PK as 5 on 5, well good luck in finding them. If they exist, and I've never seen those stats anywhere, they must be few and far between.

No, we have a team problem this year, not a goalie problem. If we had played smarter, we could have held onto some of our leads, and had a lot better GA without all the dumb penalties that we took. I think the stats show that. You can disbelieve if you want, but I'd like to see your stats.

In regards to Gillam, I guess you agree with me that maybe it was his decision to not come this year. It's not like coach could just call him up and say come, and he'd do it.

I agree; if the team loses games, it probably isn't the goaltender's fault. And I don't think there is a statistic that can show otherwise because so many of the stats that appear to measure a goaltender's performance in fact measure team defense. Goals aganist average measures the goals scored when the goaltender was in net but does not differentiate between those that might have been his or her fault or those that might belong to someone else on the team. Saves percentage measures the number of shots-on-goal that are stopped v. let in the net without any parsing as to how a particular shot came to be rocketing toward the goaltender. Was it an odd man rush or break away because a skater missed his/her assignment up ice or was it caused by a goaltender out of position?

The goaltender is the sixth person on the ice and his or her performance is a component of a team's performance. Cornell men's ice hockey -- as a team -- is not performing very well right now. There are too many persons on the roster who have played in these games to blame any individuals for where they sit in the standings. Every member of the team who has seen ice time bears some responsibility and I suspect that they all realize it.

As fans we may ring our hands and lament the premature end to the season. But these guys are living it. Don't think for a minute they are content with where they are, or willing to throw in the towel. Maybe the fans should back off a little.

My point is that a goalie's performance is based on his play - meaning overall, not just the conference as his job is to stop that puck regardless of who the opponents are.
I am not referencing goalies from 5 - 10 years ago either. Iles has been averaging 27 - 28 shots per game/yearly.
The basis of my comments are on the fact that Iles has been rated highly therefore the expectation with experience is that year over year he would produce solid numbers and increased performance % - that has not happened. I also stated that the overall accountablity is not with just the goalie postion, I believe it is with the coaching staff, but at the same time, the goalie position is probably (in my opinion) the most important position.
In terms of : i]"In regards to Gillam, I guess you agree with me that maybe it was his decision to not come this year. It's not like coach could just call him up and say come, and he'd do it"[/i] I agree with you that he probably decided not to come given the circumstances - but I disagree that the coach could not just call him up as he could if he would have probably said " I will give you a chance to play and develop and compete for the #1 job." If Gillam isnt willing to compete for the playing time, then its time to go look for another goalie. You cannot assess a goalie's playing time just from practicing at least not good decent talent coming in, nor, is it wise to shelf the backup and if you need him in the final championship game of the year- you are screwed.

jftf1958
My point is that a goalie's performance is based on his play - meaning overall, not just the conference as his job is to stop that puck regardless of who the opponents are.
I am not referencing goalies from 5 - 10 years ago either. Iles has been averaging 27 - 28 shots per game/yearly.
The basis of my comments are on the fact that Iles has been rated highly therefore the expectation with experience is that year over year he would produce solid numbers and increased performance % - that has not happened. I also stated that the overall accountablity is not with just the goalie postion, I believe it is with the coaching staff, but at the same time, the goalie position is probably (in my opinion) the most important position.
In terms of : i]"In regards to Gillam, I guess you agree with me that maybe it was his decision to not come this year. It's not like coach could just call him up and say come, and he'd do it"[/i] I agree with you that he probably decided not to come given the circumstances - but I disagree that the coach could not just call him up as he could if he would have probably said " I will give you a chance to play and develop and compete for the #1 job." If Gillam isnt willing to compete for the playing time, then its time to go look for another goalie. You cannot assess a goalie's playing time just from practicing at least not good decent talent coming in, nor, is it wise to shelf the backup and if you need him in the final championship game of the year- you are screwed.

But when you're playing different teams each year, you certainly can't compare those, can you? And although you never showed any stats, I assume that you mean that Iles is worse this year than the last two, correct? If so I'd like to parse out the Pks etc. I know you don't feel that which teams we play, nor whether we are 5 on 5 or PK, should make any difference in a goalies performance, however I think the vast majority would disagree with you. A pitchers performance will depend upon which team he plays against, don't you agree?

I can't understand, at all, your comments on Gillam. They don't seem to be in English.

dag14
As fans we may ring our hands and lament the premature end to the season. But these guys are living it. Don't think for a minute they are content with where they are, or willing to throw in the towel. Maybe the fans should back off a little.

I'm sure many fans would be willing to "back off" if there appeared to be even the slightest change in the behavior that is the root of the problem.
Perhaps if they can avoid a DQ this weekend it will restore some faith.
However, I will not be holding my hand over my......

Jim Hyla

jftf1958
My point is that a goalie's performance is based on his play - meaning overall, not just the conference as his job is to stop that puck regardless of who the opponents are.
I am not referencing goalies from 5 - 10 years ago either. Iles has been averaging 27 - 28 shots per game/yearly.
The basis of my comments are on the fact that Iles has been rated highly therefore the expectation with experience is that year over year he would produce solid numbers and increased performance % - that has not happened. I also stated that the overall accountablity is not with just the goalie postion, I believe it is with the coaching staff, but at the same time, the goalie position is probably (in my opinion) the most important position.
In terms of : i]"In regards to Gillam, I guess you agree with me that maybe it was his decision to not come this year. It's not like coach could just call him up and say come, and he'd do it"[/i] I agree with you that he probably decided not to come given the circumstances - but I disagree that the coach could not just call him up as he could if he would have probably said " I will give you a chance to play and develop and compete for the #1 job." If Gillam isnt willing to compete for the playing time, then its time to go look for another goalie. You cannot assess a goalie's playing time just from practicing at least not good decent talent coming in, nor, is it wise to shelf the backup and if you need him in the final championship game of the year- you are screwed.

But when you're playing different teams each year, you certainly can't compare those, can you? And although you never showed any stats, I assume that you mean that Iles is worse this year than the last two, correct? If so I'd like to parse out the Pks etc. I know you don't feel that which teams we play, nor whether we are 5 on 5 or PK, should make any difference in a goalies performance, however I think the vast majority would disagree with you. A pitchers performance will depend upon which team he plays against, don't you agree?

I can't understand, at all, your comments on Gillam. They don't seem to be in English.

It is quite entertaining how, the moment Iles numbers are looking great, shut outs etc., then his stats are used for awards, and disappointments are expressed on how he would not get recognized for goaltender of the week etc.., if someone should dare share that his great numbers are a result of 'the system' - that individual is crucified. When Iles numbers are NOT looking so great, then its all kinds of excuses, PK, teams he played against, 5 on 5 etc.etc... I am sure the NHL also shares these views that stats do not mean much if they look bad, but, if they are great, then it due to a highly ranked goalies.

It also seems that while for Gillam to sit out one year is ok as it is to "adjust" but not two years.., yet that would not be the case with Iles' freshman year - Garman sat for two years ? hmmm Garman left, Marozzi left, Gillam will not come in...

I will ignore the fact that you do not understand my English...evidently, on this topic neither does Schaf. Now, all these opinions aside, sincerely hope the boys turn this around. GO RED

Johnny 5

dag14
As fans we may ring our hands and lament the premature end to the season. But these guys are living it. Don't think for a minute they are content with where they are, or willing to throw in the towel. Maybe the fans should back off a little.

I'm sure many fans would be willing to "back off" if there appeared to be even the slightest change in the behavior that is the root of the problem.
Perhaps if they can avoid a DQ this weekend it will restore some faith.
However, I will not be holding my hand over my......

I game without a major would be nice too.

The one incontestable fact is that losing 7 of 8 irritates everybody.

Trotsky
The one incontestable fact is that losing 7 of 8 irritates everybody.

The silver lining is that they seem to have finally found that consistency we've been after for years.

jftf1958
It is quite entertaining how, the moment Iles numbers are looking great, shut outs etc., then his stats are used for awards, and disappointments are expressed on how he would not get recognized for goaltender of the week etc.., if someone should dare share that his great numbers are a result of 'the system' - that individual is crucified. When Iles numbers are NOT looking so great, then its all kinds of excuses, PK, teams he played against, 5 on 5 etc.etc... I am sure the NHL also shares these views that stats do not mean much if they look bad, but, if they are great, then it due to a highly ranked goalies.

For my entertainment, it's the occassional comment about how reasoned disagreement on an internet forum is tantamount to crucifixion. I like coming here because it's open to honest criticism about all facets of our obsession. Save for the occassional troll and gruff personalities one often finds online, it's all pretty respectful and on a geekery level of a passionate fandom I'm comfortable with.

Anyway, so what you're saying is "it's the system" when Iles has a good year or a bad year? Or no? I can't tell.

Trotsky
The one incontestable fact is that losing 7 of 8 irritates everybody.

More fun facts from the ECAC blog on USCHO:

USCHO
The Big Red are baffled by their first five-game losing streak since the fall of 1999, which was also the last time the program failed to finish at .500 in either league play or overall. The Ithacans are 1-8-0 in their last nine games, and 2-8-0 since the holiday break.

RichH

Anyway, so what you're saying is "it's the system" when Iles has a good year or a bad year? Or no? I can't tell.

It is whatever you want to believe.

jftf1958

RichH

Anyway, so what you're saying is "it's the system" when Iles has a good year or a bad year? Or no? I can't tell.

It is whatever you want to believe.

"The Zen Approach to Cornell Goaltending."

jftf1958

Jim Hyla

jftf1958
My point is that a goalie's performance is based on his play - meaning overall, not just the conference as his job is to stop that puck regardless of who the opponents are.
I am not referencing goalies from 5 - 10 years ago either. Iles has been averaging 27 - 28 shots per game/yearly.
The basis of my comments are on the fact that Iles has been rated highly therefore the expectation with experience is that year over year he would produce solid numbers and increased performance % - that has not happened. I also stated that the overall accountablity is not with just the goalie postion, I believe it is with the coaching staff, but at the same time, the goalie position is probably (in my opinion) the most important position.
In terms of : i]"In regards to Gillam, I guess you agree with me that maybe it was his decision to not come this year. It's not like coach could just call him up and say come, and he'd do it"[/i] I agree with you that he probably decided not to come given the circumstances - but I disagree that the coach could not just call him up as he could if he would have probably said " I will give you a chance to play and develop and compete for the #1 job." If Gillam isnt willing to compete for the playing time, then its time to go look for another goalie. You cannot assess a goalie's playing time just from practicing at least not good decent talent coming in, nor, is it wise to shelf the backup and if you need him in the final championship game of the year- you are screwed.

But when you're playing different teams each year, you certainly can't compare those, can you? And although you never showed any stats, I assume that you mean that Iles is worse this year than the last two, correct? If so I'd like to parse out the Pks etc. I know you don't feel that which teams we play, nor whether we are 5 on 5 or PK, should make any difference in a goalies performance, however I think the vast majority would disagree with you. A pitchers performance will depend upon which team he plays against, don't you agree?

I can't understand, at all, your comments on Gillam. They don't seem to be in English.

It is quite entertaining how, the moment Iles numbers are looking great, shut outs etc., then his stats are used for awards, and disappointments are expressed on how he would not get recognized for goaltender of the week etc.., if someone should dare share that his great numbers are a result of 'the system' - that individual is crucified. When Iles numbers are NOT looking so great, then its all kinds of excuses, PK, teams he played against, 5 on 5 etc.etc... I am sure the NHL also shares these views that stats do not mean much if they look bad, but, if they are great, then it due to a highly ranked goalies.

It also seems that while for Gillam to sit out one year is ok as it is to "adjust" but not two years.., yet that would not be the case with Iles' freshman year - Garman sat for two years ? hmmm Garman left, Marozzi left, Gillam will not come in...

I will ignore the fact that you do not understand my English...evidently, on this topic neither does Schaf. Now, all these opinions aside, sincerely hope the boys turn this around. GO RED

I hope most people aren't contesting that Iles hasn't been playing up to par, that is certainly true during this stretch. However, I am hesitant to lay the majority of the blame at his feet because I don't have the data to prove whether or not the play is purely his fault. I suspect that his 5 v 4 save percentage is lower than average, but that his ES save percentage is at the league average or better. Unfortunately, I do not have the data on my hands to prove that theory. And even then you have to look at where the shots are coming from and what types of goals are being scored before you can just take GAA and blame it on the goalie. Are these open shots from the slot? Are those shots from the slot being created by poor rebound control on shots he should easily save and direct to safe areas or are they off of difficult shots from the slot in the first place? How many shots per game is he facing? Is the PK (as it has often done this season) allowing cross ice passes through the center of its formation. Is the defense blocking shots and clearing the slot of loose pucks. Obviously rebounds should be directed away from the slot, but sometimes the only way to make a save is to put a rebound right back out there, and then it is the D's job to clear it. Are there an inordinate amount of deflection type goals, in which goalie save percentages are typically lower and the blame lies at the feet of the D for not clearing the slot and crease of bodies. Is Iles stickwork behind the net helping the defense by preventing the offenses ability to dump and chase (This is a comment I've made many times, Iles pretty much picks all the right moments to use his stick to affect the play, but his execution leaves much to be desired)? I think after taking what I have seen into account, understanding that I lack the necessary data, such as shot charts and game film, to firmly resolve my theory, I would say Iles has probably been average to slightly above average, with numbers that look poor due to a horrific penalty kill and a stupid propensity to take a lot of penalties. How much blame can be laid at Iles' feet for the PK I don't know. Maybe that is the situation where his lack of size really hurts him. But I pretty much stand by the idea that a goaltender, unless they are as good, relative to their competition, as Domonic Hasek, cannot consistently win a team games that they do not deserve to win. Iles did that a lot last year, and thats what we are basically asking him to do this year. If we had all the data I would like, I'm relatively certain we'd see a team that is a poor posession hockey team, that dumps and chases far too often despite the fact it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase, and a team that gives up its blue line far to easily, constantly losing the neutral zone battle. Iles play is no doubt a part of the problem, but I firmly believe it starts with the 18 skaters that dress every night not driving play and doing the things that are highly correllated with winning.

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

Is shots per zone entry really a valuable number when evaluating contrasting styles? Like, Josh I haven't seen numbers or anything so this is purely stream of consciousness but if carry-in teams only penetrate the zone 60% of the time and get .5 shots per entry and dump and chase teams penetrate 90% of the time and get .3 shots per entry, what difference does it make? Further, what's the meaningful difference between a very low percentage shot from just inside the blue line under duress and a dump in where possession is not established? Both result in change in possession but carry-in teams get another credited shot per possession.

MattS

Johnny 5

dag14
As fans we may ring our hands and lament the premature end to the season. But these guys are living it. Don't think for a minute they are content with where they are, or willing to throw in the towel. Maybe the fans should back off a little.

I'm sure many fans would be willing to "back off" if there appeared to be even the slightest change in the behavior that is the root of the problem.
Perhaps if they can avoid a DQ this weekend it will restore some faith.
However, I will not be holding my hand over my......

I game without a major would be nice too.

The majors is what killed us this entire weekend against both St. Lawrence and Clarkson. If we were able to behave on the ice then its quite possible we could have won at least one of those two games.

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

NHL Numbers has a whole series on why a zone entry with possession is better than dump and chase. Also it should just be common sense that your offense should be more effective if you're not risking turning the puck over just to get it back deep. Obviously there's still situations when a dump is a smart play, but the players who drive play and gain zone entry with puck possession are the drivers of offense in hockey.

css228

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

NHL Numbers has a whole series on why a zone entry with possession is better than dump and chase. Also it should just be common sense that your offense should be more effective if you're not risking turning the puck over just to get it back deep. Obviously there's still situations when a dump is a smart play, but the players who drive play and gain zone entry with puck possession are the drivers of offense in hockey.

One should be careful drawing conclusions about the college game from NHL data. Differens in skill level and speed could easily skew the results.

Carrying in seems like it should be more successful overall than dumping and chasing. But that might be a result of selection bias: sometimes you dump because you can't gain entry (due to your lack of skill or the opponent's defense) rather than intentioanlly. From what I've read (and I have no doubt I'll be corrected if wrong)Ned's teams were masters of the dump and chase but they could usually beat the opponents to the puck. That kind of skill/ability differential between teams probably ver occurs in today's NHL and probably not much at the college level.

Edit: I haven't read tjhe study. I keep getting errors when I try to access it.

css228
NHL Numbers

I love numbers: it's hard to argue with numbers. The analysis here might be missing something, but the difference between dumping and carrying is so large that there would have to be a huge unaccounted-for effect to negate the conclusion from this article.

Good stuff.

Kyle Rose

css228
NHL Numbers

I love numbers: it's hard to argue with numbers.

I could see someone getting high and getting into an extended, loud argument with the number 4. I'm sure stranger arguments have happened.

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

Sports Illustrated story from last fall, about the NHL, perhaps is one source. Every turnover including a dump-in hurt your chances of scoring (statistically, not just "d'oh, obviously'') so teams shouldn't give up the puck. Perhaps holding onto the puck is especially important if the team is graceful and quick and that might not be Cornell's case.

Maybe if the team is physical, the grinding along the boards wears out the other team and the third period belongs to Cornell.

ftyuv

Kyle Rose

css228
NHL Numbers

I love numbers: it's hard to argue with numbers.

I could see someone getting high and getting into an extended, loud argument with the number 4. I'm sure stranger arguments have happened.

Don't try to argue with pi.

It's irrational.

Did you know some people LIKE the number four?

There's even a mathematical method for it:

Trotsky

ftyuv

Kyle Rose

css228
NHL Numbers

I love numbers: it's hard to argue with numbers.

I could see someone getting high and getting into an extended, loud argument with the number 4. I'm sure stranger arguments have happened.

Don't try to argue with pi.

It's irrational.

It only looks irrational when i argue with it. Yelling at something imaginary will always get you funny looks.

Edit: +1 to the Fourier joke, too!

KeithK

css228

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

NHL Numbers has a whole series on why a zone entry with possession is better than dump and chase. Also it should just be common sense that your offense should be more effective if you're not risking turning the puck over just to get it back deep. Obviously there's still situations when a dump is a smart play, but the players who drive play and gain zone entry with puck possession are the drivers of offense in hockey.

One should be careful drawing conclusions about the college game from NHL data. Differens in skill level and speed could easily skew the results.

Carrying in seems like it should be more successful overall than dumping and chasing. But that might be a result of selection bias: sometimes you dump because you can't gain entry (due to your lack of skill or the opponent's defense) rather than intentioanlly. From what I've read (and I have no doubt I'll be corrected if wrong)Ned's teams were masters of the dump and chase but they could usually beat the opponents to the puck. That kind of skill/ability differential between teams probably ver occurs in today's NHL and probably not much at the college level.

Edit: I haven't read tjhe study. I keep getting errors when I try to access it.

The conclusions the authors drew is actually that there is no proof that a turnover at the blueline is any more dangerous than off a dump in, and since every turnover is negating a scoring opportunity, it seems like encouraging players on the third line or lower to dump may even further limit their offensive production. Here is another article on neutral zone play and whether or not it is worthwhile to regroup instead of dump when a carry in is not possible.

ftyuv
Yelling at something imaginary will always get you funny looks.

Just keepin' it real.

css228
I hope most people aren't contesting that Iles hasn't been playing up to par, that is certainly true during this stretch. However, I am hesitant to lay the majority of the blame at his feet because I don't have the data to prove whether or not the play is purely his fault. I suspect that his 5 v 4 save percentage is lower than average, but that his ES save percentage is at the league average or better. Unfortunately, I do not have the data on my hands to prove that theory. And even then you have to look at where the shots are coming from and what types of goals are being scored before you can just take GAA and blame it on the goalie. Are these open shots from the slot? Are those shots from the slot being created by poor rebound control on shots he should easily save and direct to safe areas or are they off of difficult shots from the slot in the first place? How many shots per game is he facing? Is the PK (as it has often done this season) allowing cross ice passes through the center of its formation. Is the defense blocking shots and clearing the slot of loose pucks. Obviously rebounds should be directed away from the slot, but sometimes the only way to make a save is to put a rebound right back out there, and then it is the D's job to clear it. Are there an inordinate amount of deflection type goals, in which goalie save percentages are typically lower and the blame lies at the feet of the D for not clearing the slot and crease of bodies. Is Iles stickwork behind the net helping the defense by preventing the offenses ability to dump and chase (This is a comment I've made many times, Iles pretty much picks all the right moments to use his stick to affect the play, but his execution leaves much to be desired)? I think after taking what I have seen into account, understanding that I lack the necessary data, such as shot charts and game film, to firmly resolve my theory, I would say Iles has probably been average to slightly above average, with numbers that look poor due to a horrific penalty kill and a stupid propensity to take a lot of penalties. How much blame can be laid at Iles' feet for the PK I don't know. Maybe that is the situation where his lack of size really hurts him. But I pretty much stand by the idea that a goaltender, unless they are as good, relative to their competition, as Domonic Hasek, cannot consistently win a team games that they do not deserve to win. Iles did that a lot last year, and thats what we are basically asking him to do this year. If we had all the data I would like, I'm relatively certain we'd see a team that is a poor posession hockey team, that dumps and chases far too often despite the fact it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase, and a team that gives up its blue line far to easily, constantly losing the neutral zone battle. Iles play is no doubt a part of the problem, but I firmly believe it starts with the 18 skaters that dress every night not driving play and doing the things that are highly correllated with winning.

I think you mean #DagsFault

BMac
Did you know some people LIKE the number four?

There's even a mathematical method for it:

20130201.gif

+4

css228

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

NHL Numbers has a whole series on why a zone entry with possession is better than dump and chase. Also it should just be common sense that your offense should be more effective if you're not risking turning the puck over just to get it back deep. Obviously there's still situations when a dump is a smart play, but the players who drive play and gain zone entry with puck possession are the drivers of offense in hockey.

This article appears based on the Philadelphia Flyers 2011-12 season. The rest of the NHL might be different. College hockey, too. Still the conclusion seems to show significant differences, that carrying in is twice as effective as dumping in, in generating shots, for the Flyers last year: 0.57 per rush vs. 0.25 per dump-in rush. I believe the writer said even less skilled, third lines would benefit.

But do teams self-select: If you're physical more than deft, does dumping in then increase your chances? What about more esoteric links: Do teams change strategies in OT? Does a carry-in game lead to fewer injuries and lost player-days? Is it more exciting and draws more fans?

css228

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

NHL Numbers has a whole series on why a zone entry with possession is better than dump and chase. Also it should just be common sense that your offense should be more effective if you're not risking turning the puck over just to get it back deep. Obviously there's still situations when a dump is a smart play, but the players who drive play and gain zone entry with puck possession are the drivers of offense in hockey.

Interesting read, thanks.

billhoward

css228

Josh '99

css228
...it is proven that carry ins create more shots per zone entry than dump and chase...

Source? I'm not disputing what you're saying (though I would be inclined to guess it varies from team to team), but if this has, in fact, been proven, then I'd be curious to read the proof.

NHL Numbers has a whole series on why a zone entry with possession is better than dump and chase. Also it should just be common sense that your offense should be more effective if you're not risking turning the puck over just to get it back deep. Obviously there's still situations when a dump is a smart play, but the players who drive play and gain zone entry with puck possession are the drivers of offense in hockey.

This article appears based on the Philadelphia Flyers 2011-12 season. The rest of the NHL might be different. College hockey, too. Still the conclusion seems to show significant differences, that carrying in is twice as effective as dumping in, in generating shots, for the Flyers last year: 0.57 per rush vs. 0.25 per dump-in rush. I believe the writer said even less skilled, third lines would benefit.

But do teams self-select: If you're physical more than deft, does dumping in then increase your chances? What about more esoteric links: Do teams change strategies in OT? Does a carry-in game lead to fewer injuries and lost player-days? Is it more exciting and draws more fans?

The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire season. Regarding the skill vs size question, the data seems to show that it seems that zone entry success is a skill unto itself that can come from being strong and skilled (e.g. Jagr) skilled and fast (e.g. Giroux, Briere), strong on the puck (e.g. Voracek and JvR). At the same having these skills such as speed (e.g. Read) or strength on the puck (e.g. Simmonds) doesn't guarantee neutral zone success. So I tend to lean toward the belief that while skill on the puck is important, and strength on the puck is important, it seems that being able to carry/pass the puck in is a skill in itself. Well that and the having the ability to skate, unlike Hartnell.

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

css228

billhoward
This article appears based on the Philadelphia Flyers 2011-12 season....

The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire season.

Sure, it's a data availability thing. While there may be other equally less well adjusted people out there tracking other NHL teams (or college teams) if we don't have access to the data we can't use it to draw conclusions. That said, just because this is the only data set we have doesn't necessarily make it representative. Draw your conclusions but keep in mind that they might not apply equally to all teams at all levels.

css228

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

With the right tools it might not be that much harder than watching every game for the purpose of writing a game-by-game season diary. Which would also be insane, but somehow feels a lot more normal for a sportswriter.

Personally, I love the fact that they did this. Based on a quick read I think there are some flaws in their analysis, and it seems like they need better data and more of it to correct the most obvious failings (e.g., shots on goal instead of a direct measure of scoring). Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

Tom Lento
Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

"If you build it, they will come."

Tom Lento

css228

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

With the right tools it might not be that much harder than watching every game for the purpose of writing a game-by-game season diary. Which would also be insane, but somehow feels a lot more normal for a sportswriter.

Personally, I love the fact that they did this. Based on a quick read I think there are some flaws in their analysis, and it seems like they need better data and more of it to correct the most obvious failings (e.g., shots on goal instead of a direct measure of scoring). Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

According to the guy who did it, he just used a DVR.

css228

Tom Lento

css228

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

With the right tools it might not be that much harder than watching every game for the purpose of writing a game-by-game season diary. Which would also be insane, but somehow feels a lot more normal for a sportswriter.

Personally, I love the fact that they did this. Based on a quick read I think there are some flaws in their analysis, and it seems like they need better data and more of it to correct the most obvious failings (e.g., shots on goal instead of a direct measure of scoring). Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

According to the guy who did it, he just used a DVR.

I'd be surprised if he attempted to do this live. How did he track the zone entries and shots? Pen and paper? Spreadsheet? Custom software?

Tom Lento

css228

Tom Lento

css228

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

With the right tools it might not be that much harder than watching every game for the purpose of writing a game-by-game season diary. Which would also be insane, but somehow feels a lot more normal for a sportswriter.

Personally, I love the fact that they did this. Based on a quick read I think there are some flaws in their analysis, and it seems like they need better data and more of it to correct the most obvious failings (e.g., shots on goal instead of a direct measure of scoring). Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

According to the guy who did it, he just used a DVR.

I'd be surprised if he attempted to do this live. How did he track the zone entries and shots? Pen and paper? Spreadsheet? Custom software?

Pen and paper Methodology here

css228

Tom Lento

css228

Tom Lento

css228

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

With the right tools it might not be that much harder than watching every game for the purpose of writing a game-by-game season diary. Which would also be insane, but somehow feels a lot more normal for a sportswriter.

Personally, I love the fact that they did this. Based on a quick read I think there are some flaws in their analysis, and it seems like they need better data and more of it to correct the most obvious failings (e.g., shots on goal instead of a direct measure of scoring). Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

According to the guy who did it, he just used a DVR.

I'd be surprised if he attempted to do this live. How did he track the zone entries and shots? Pen and paper? Spreadsheet? Custom software?

Pen and paper Methodology here

This summary account of the methodology and overall conclusions hints at potential flaw in the analysis. I don't see mention of the quality the opponents defenders as an independent variable. The skills of the individual Flyers defenders is acknowledged as contributing the neutral zone activity. I wonder whether, on the average, better opposing defenders reduced the Flyers forwards' ability to carry the puck in and also reduced their ability to score once the puck was in the zone. That would generate the reported correlation.

David Harding

css228

Tom Lento

css228

Tom Lento

css228

Trotsky

css228
The reason it focuses on the Flyers is that one of the bloggers at Broad Street Hockey tracked every zone entry and result of that zone entry for the entire (season)

This sort of thing makes me feel well adjusted.

I do believe SB Nation pays their bloggers, but its still insane.

With the right tools it might not be that much harder than watching every game for the purpose of writing a game-by-game season diary. Which would also be insane, but somehow feels a lot more normal for a sportswriter.

Personally, I love the fact that they did this. Based on a quick read I think there are some flaws in their analysis, and it seems like they need better data and more of it to correct the most obvious failings (e.g., shots on goal instead of a direct measure of scoring). Because I'm also crazy, I've been thinking about ways to collect better data, and I believe a fairly simple tablet app could work. It might be a fun side project, build a UI for tracking turnovers, zone transitions, shot locations and outcomes, build in an automated uploader to collect data from anybody crazy enough to do this for even one game, and do some analysis... but I doubt anyone would ever use it.

According to the guy who did it, he just used a DVR.

I'd be surprised if he attempted to do this live. How did he track the zone entries and shots? Pen and paper? Spreadsheet? Custom software?

Pen and paper Methodology here

This summary account of the methodology and overall conclusions hints at potential flaw in the analysis. I don't see mention of the quality the opponents defenders as an independent variable. The skills of the individual Flyers defenders is acknowledged as contributing the neutral zone activity. I wonder whether, on the average, better opposing defenders reduced the Flyers forwards' ability to carry the puck in and also reduced their ability to score once the puck was in the zone. That would generate the reported correlation.

That *is* insane.

They should be able to get the opponent's d-men, at least approximately, based on the same shift charts they used for offensive data. Rating those d-men might be another painful task, but it'll be interesting to see if they do it.