CCM Cornell hockey cap?

Guys, I seem to recall, several years ago, there was a way to purchase CCM practice caps with Cornell embroidery. Is this still possible? Appreciate any info anyone has.

The Rink, a community skating rink on East Shore Drive in Ithaca, used to have them. I stopped by when I was in town a couple of weekends back but the store there is apparently closed on Saturdays. I saw some Ithaca CCM hats on a wall display in the back, but no Cornell hats. The phone number is 607-277-7465. I would like one and I know Age was looking to replace his. If The Rink doesn't have them in stock, maybe we've got enough interest to convince them to order a few.

In my quest to find such a hat during my junior or senior year, I called that store and later CCM. CCM told me they had stopped making Cornell hats. The store just told me they didn't have any.

I do recall talking to one person who found one in an airport giftshop in Minnesota, as strange as that sounds. Otherwise, I think we'd have to convince CCM to resume production.

Well, believe it or not, I talked to a player on the Stanford club ice hockey team the other day, because he was sporting a CCM Stanford hockey cap. He said the cap was not for sale (only team members have them), but the team was considering making the caps available for purchase. Imagine that! Maybe we SHOULD start a "write-in" campaign to have some Cornell caps available, especially when we have had such a great season so far.

Earlier this season the hockey office was selling some baseball hats. They were not CCM (but the overall design looks very similiar). They came in two colors - black or red. I don't know if there are any left, but if interested call Sue Dettzer at the hockey office to find out.

The Cornell CCM caps I have I ordered years ago, haven't seen any since. When I played on NYU's club team, we ordered CCM caps for the team from some hockey shop at a rink in CT, unfortunately I don't recall the name. Assuming that someone could track down a hockey shop that processes these orders, the questions would be: What is the minimum quantity that has to be ordered? How do we get past the trademark issue? (The team decided to go with "New York" on the caps instead of "NYU", so it was never an issue.)

If you're just getting the word "Cornell" on the hat without any disparaging remarks about anyone, I'd imagine the Day Hall folks wouldn't have any problem with approving them.

as opposed to my "Harvard Sucks" hat.

From CCM's website:
[q]We do have a CCM Custom Apparel and Cap Program. If you visit your local CCM dealer they can fill you in the on the details of the many options available along with the minimum quantities required.[/q]
And according to the site, both Dick's and Klein's in Ithaca are CCM dealers.

Thanks for the guess, Lowell. Does that actually count as trademark/copyright law advice?

Sorry about the sarcasm, but if you don't know, why would you guess out loud? If the Harvard t-shirt experience taught us anything, it was that the institution will not say anything useful, and force you to take your chances.

If you think you can fly under the radar, Godspeed, but don't come here looking for trademark advice. And if you don't have any advice to give, please don't give out guesses. They are a lot more potentially harmful than they are helpful.

I purchased a couple of the CCM Cornell Hockey hats in May 1999 over the 'net. It was through a store somewhere in New York State I think. I had gotten the lead on where to buy them on the old Cornell Hockey Discussion Forum. I had bookmarked the order tracking page, which was at www.prowebwear.com. Unfortunately, that site no longer seems to be functioning, but perhaps if Pro Webwear merged with some other site, a new source could be tracked down.

Yikes. Granted there has been bad experiences with Hockey Cam but I would like to think that Cornell will treat their own a little better than Harvard administrators treated rival fans trying to make an anti-Harvard shirt, especially if the hat is made in good faith without disparaging features. Some may call that a guess but I'm one of those guys that still has faith in our institution.

This also isn't the first time someone will be asking permission to use "Cornell" on these hats. Assuming somebody had to ask the first time.

Does someone in Ithaca want to volunteer to contact Dick's or Klein's?

You are answering the wrong question, Adam. The question isn't "Will Cornell license its name to someone to make Cornell hats?" The question is "Can I make Cornell hats without permission without getting a nasty letter from the Cornell legal department?"

I don't know the answer to either question, but unless you do know the answer, why guess?

I don't know the answer to either question, but unless you do know the answer, why guess?

Before I came to Cornell, I thought that guessing or partial credit meant that people may die in engineering situations. Since I've been at Cornell, I've been taught that guessing or partial credit is always better than no credit!

Honestly...the lack of availability of Cornell athletics (especially hockey) memorabilia online or anywhere is downright pathetic... I mean...I'm obviously realistic and don't expect to find it in every Champs/Sports Authority that I go into (a la Michigan Miami, etc), but come on... When I can do a google search for 'CCM College Hockey hats' and find out how to purchase a Massachusettes Maritime Hockey hat and can't find Cornell there is a problem...



From the CCM website:
We do have a CCM Custom Apparel and Cap Program. If you visit your local CCM dealer they can fill you in the on the details of the many options available along with the minimum quantities required.

Anyone know who the local...for Ithaca or NYC dealer may be?

So I went to the CCM website and submitted this...figured it couldn't hurt:

I am an alumnus of Cornell University and an avid college hockey fan. At one point in time I recall seeing a fan with a Cornell Hockey cap in the CCM Practice Cap style, but I have since come up empty in my efforts to find one for myself. Have you thought of making caps of this style available for all of the major college teams? (Cornell is #2 in the nation right now and I can't find a thing) I know I've seen them for other teams...and I see that you have a custom cap program...but I would think it would be worth it for you to have some supply readily available online for the major college teams. Well...if you could help me in my search for a cap I would greatly appreciate it...thanks!

Good lord.

Having personally dealt with getting approval for various trademark uses many times as both a student and an alumnus, I can say that based on my experience, I would expect Cornell to approve the use of its name on CCM hats if somebody were to try to set up an order. You know, given that they've done it already. Then again, I'm just guessing, so I assume I should keep my mouth shut.

And to clarify: I wasn't even close to suggesting to try to do this under the table, so that's NOT the right question. I think they'd give it the green light, but I wouldn't want to suggest that this might be a worthwhile venture.

But no, let's just use this as an opportunity to bash Cornell, as if Andy Noel does everything from set the Athletics budget to clean the bathroom at Dunbar's.

Cornell CCM caps were available online somewhere back in 98-99-00. I actually got mine (yes, I have a true Cornell CCM cap) at the Mall of America in Minneapolis, MN back in August, 1999. I was on a road trip out to Montana at the time and I was suprised to see it. Have no idea where to find them now.

Lowell, thanks for a very measured response to a rather "Cranky bastard '71" response from "bra". I thought your suggestion was reasonable, even though I'm not sure that Cornell will give out the rights. After all, they do have caps(?) of their own to sell for a profit. But unless you want to do it under the table, the only solution is to ask, right?

Oh well, we all have bad posts, bad days, etc.. I just wish we could all try for civility in posting or responding.

bra,

It's my opinion that Lowell gave an opinion on the kind of design that might not pose much of a problem for that section of the Application for Use of Cornell Names and Artwork, which to the best of my recollection is submitted to Community Relations. He didn't say, but you might have inferred from his statement, that having submitted that form and gained approval, one would lessen one's chances of getting a "nasty letter" from Counsel upon producing said design with the stated and approved manufacturer and by the stated and approved distribution method for which one had obtained any necessary permits and paid or made arrangement for the payment of any applicable fees or royalties. If he had, I might hold the opinion that that could have possibly been construed as something resembling legal advice and could be thus chastised, but then I'm not a lawyer, so I'll keep my mouth shut.

Since people are starting to pile on here as if I were some kind of roving "uncivil" Starr chamber I think I should make clear what I said and why I said it.

First, I didn't infer from Lowell's first response that he was suggesting that his belief that Cornell would approve the label came from experience. It is a significant difference, and one made clear in his second posting. I also didn't infer, though I might have, that Lowell was suggesting that Cornell would formally approve the request if directed through proper channels. That isn't legal advice, it is good inside info from someone who has been through the drill. Had I known that at the time, I also would have stayed silent. I still think that the first posting left these questions ambiguous, but I have separately apologized to Lowell for the confusion. (The legal effect of that formal approval is, as you say, potentially thorny, but I would hope that whoever you submit the form to in Community Relations could answer any questions about the breadth of rights conferred by a formal approval.)

Second, my second posting wasn't directed at Lowell at all. I thought that Adam was suggesting that Cornell wouldn't care about an unapproved but limited production of non-disparaging hats, and I found that response irresponsible. Adam and I have also cleared up that misunderstanding; he was apparently also suggesting that Cornell would approve a formal request.

Both of my postings boil down to this: Cornell trademarked its name for a reason, and it has a way of licensing its trademarks. Pat appears to have given a how-to guide (but read the fine print in the application if there is any). If you want to use the trademark, go through those channels, and be aware that beyond mere approval of content, there may be a licensing fee involved.

Giving legal advice is a dangerous enterprise, even for a lawyer (that is why there are so many disclaimers on everything). Quasi-legal advice from a layman can be dangerous, and because that is what I thought I saw, a serious response was in order. You can search the archives here and find plenty of uncivil moments in my past. This wasn't one of them.

[Q]Jason Demby '99 wrote:

"Anyone know who the local...for Ithaca or NYC dealer may be?" [/Q]

If there were going to be a place in Central New York. . .this would be the place:

Mc Kie Sports Shop
829 State Fair Blvd
Syracuse, NY
phone: 315-488-5940

Good luck!

Yup, I wasn't trying to give legal advice; it was just some hopeful thinking out loud on my part. I initially didn't understand where BRA was coming from when he responded to Lowell but I understand that he was just worried about people getting in trouble (for doing something that a lot of us don't really understand) and facing serious consequences. I agree that speculation about hockey (which is what the board is all about) is one thing but speculation about law can lead to real trouble. BRA, you're cool in my book.

How about that 2007 recruiting class?

Jason:

Cool. Thanks for contacting CCM. If you hear back a positive response, please ping me privately in addition to leaving a message here (for I may be traveling overseas mid-March).

Informally, folks, how many of you would like to buy a CCM Cornell cap today if it were available? I, for one, would probably buy one or two.

Tom