Redcast List of "Grievances" (suggestions)

Hi Elfers. I proposed in another thread that we put together a concrete list of things we would like to see fixed or improved with Redcast as well as suggestions or comments as to how to achieve it. Redcast gets talked about in plenty of game threads where people rant about it tangentially, so I think it would be productive to make it a thread of its own. Perhaps this could lead to some dialogue with Athletics or a petition from the ELF community.

Picture too blurry, fuzzy. Not sharp definition of objects. Watching away games shows how much better it could be. I very much do like the score being shown on the bottom, as I sometimes have to leave the broadcast and then return.

both video and audio feeds have a tendency to come and go as they please... not necessarily at the same time.

Picture not clear enough and would be nice to have the score, game and shot clocks for basketball games

Start the damn webcasts at the scheduled time. Work out the bugs before the webcast is scheduled to begin.

Have someone at Cornell monitor the webcast to see the crap the rest of us are getting.

Figure out why the video quality looks as if we're watching through a frosted glass window.

If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

flyersgolf
If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

Or hire the Engineers (RPI) to teach the Redcast crew what to use - programs, codecs,etc. - so that the product would be first rate. Every engineering school in the world is packed with folks who love to tinker with this crap. I think half the posters on this board could do better. Why do I waste time preaching?

marty

flyersgolf
If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

Or hire the Engineers (RPI) to teach the Redcast crew what to use - programs, codecs,etc. - so that the product would be first rate. Every engineering school in the world is packed with folks who love to tinker with this crap. I think half the posters on this board could do better. Why do I waste time preaching?

Marty, someone's going to accuse me of hijacking your username. More broadly, Cornell could look at how other schools do their webcasts.

(I'm calling it suggestions. Leave "grievance" for how his countrymen felt about Mubarek. If we want Cornell to listen to forum comments, make it non-confrontational.)

Loss of signal is the biggest issue, followed by freezes and delays, followed by image quality. Any broadcast is better than none or a partial.

The main camera needs to be positioned higher so standing fans don't obscure the frame. Some people say it can't. I think it can go 36" higher that it was when I saw it at the Harvard game.

There needs to be a second camera with a reverse angle so you can see in the near (pressbox side) corners. It could go in the far balcony at the scoreboard end if the netting wasn't in the way and maybe still go there if the netting isn't moved or downsized. The elevated walkway / VIP fan seating area could be protected by plexiglass alone and the camera could shoot through that.

Perhaps (this starts to get into money) there should be a camera in the rafters at each end with a wider angle of coverage than the ECAC/NCAA-mandated goal review camera. It would have to be either a fixed view or remote pan/zoom.

Put a third camera at ice level in the corner. Make sure the glass in front of that camera is cleaned every game. Down in Estero, Fla, I believe the crew cleans the corner glass after every period.

Goal cam, anyone? (I heard a presentation by Al Bello of Getty Images who said the still photo goal cams are temperamental, sometimes knocked out of place when a player slides into the net, but the video goal cams are quite reliable.) This would be the last camera you add.

Instant replay ought to be part of the webcast.

For archive purposes, I wish the cameras were all HD, if only so when people look at highlights 10 years from now, they're better quality.

I'd like to see an all-Ivy consortium for webcasts where for 25% more than what you pay now for home games, you get your team's away games, too, or perhaps all the Ivy webcasts in case, say, you wanted to catch the Penn-Princeton basketball game. This would be tricky for hockey because you'd have to work in the non-Ivy ECAC teams. If it happens, the Ivy League would probably have to standardize on one provider (b/c of funding and authentication), and then the Ivy League would have to negotiate with the ECAC for hockey, the Sprint Football group, etcetera. Start at least getting away-game rights to Cornell games as part of Cornell Redcast, Yale away games as part of Bulldogcast, etcetera.

I really hope eLynah can come up with reasonable suggestions that Cornell takes to heart.

billhoward

marty

flyersgolf
If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

Or hire the Engineers (RPI) to teach the Redcast crew what to use - programs, codecs,etc. - so that the product would be first rate. Every engineering school in the world is packed with folks who love to tinker with this crap. I think half the posters on this board could do better. Why do I waste time preaching?

Marty, someone's going to accuse me of hijacking your username. More broadly, Cornell could look at how other schools do their webcasts.

Penn has a very good broadcasting setup, although Princeton uses the same company and Princeton's feed is worse than ours so I guess it not only depends on the company but on what the school does

It was mentioned somewhere on the Ivy league basketball forum that the Ivy league was ready to go to one website for all 8 schools but Cornell voted no a few years ago, I dont know if this is true.

[www.horizonleague.org]
The Horizon League is really a model example, they stream different sports for the whole league in good quality for free

The thing that bothers me the most about Redcast is that it is a Cornell product and it sucks. I don't care that it is provided by a 3rd party, it carries the Cornell brand and it sucks. Cornell is supposed to be a premium brand and anything that reflects poorly on the brand is bad for the institution.

I did send Andy Noel an email suggesting better ways that the service could be used (and reminding him that it reflected poorly on our Alma Mater) but he did not have the courtesy of a reply.

I would be happy to pay more for my annual subscription ($199.95) for a quality product. I am not sure I am going to sign up again for Redcrap.

Oh, by the way did I mention that Redcrap sucks.

marty

flyersgolf
If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

Or hire the Engineers (RPI) to teach the Redcast crew what to use - programs, codecs,etc. - so that the product would be first rate. Every engineering school in the world is packed with folks who love to tinker with this crap. I think half the posters on this board could do better. Why do I waste time preaching?

It's too bad that RPI-TV wasn't allowed to broadcast their stream online this year. They still film the games which are not shown on a cable channel, but the only way to see them live is through B2LiveTV (now owned by America One) which sends out a significantly lower quality image. RPI pays America One and then America One charges for subscriptions (what a deal). The problem is that they broadcast all sports including those that only family members would pay to watch, which is most everything except men's hockey, and RPI gave them an exclusive which runs at least one more year.

Those who read the RPI thread on USCHO know that RPI-TV wants to broadcast their stream, as they did for the Cornell game a year ago, but they aren't allowed to. They do archive the video, so they can be seen at a later date. This year's Cornell game was televised, so RPI-TV didn't film it.

ursusminor

marty

flyersgolf
If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

Or hire the Engineers (RPI) to teach the Redcast crew what to use - programs, codecs,etc. - so that the product would be first rate. Every engineering school in the world is packed with folks who love to tinker with this crap. I think half the posters on this board could do better. Why do I waste time preaching?

It's too bad that RPI-TV wasn't allowed to broadcast their stream online this year. They still film the games which are not shown on a cable channel, but the only way to see them live is through B2LiveTV (now owned by America One) which sends out a significantly lower quality image. RPI pays America One and then America One charges for subscriptions (what a deal). The problem is that they broadcast all sports including those that only family members would pay to watch, which is most everything except men's hockey, and RPI gave them an exclusive which runs at least one more year.

Those who read the RPI thread on USCHO know that RPI-TV wants to broadcast their stream, as they did for the Cornell game a year ago, but they aren't allowed to. They do archive the video, so they can be seen at a later date. This year's Cornell game was televised, so RPI-TV didn't film it.

You can look at this as a problem if all you care about is hockey, but it's the same issue that all schools have including CU. You can get a lot of help, financial and otherwise to do men's hockey, football, and I'd guess men's lax and basketball. However what do you do about other sports. If we had a program like IC, maybe they could do more. But I gather from your post, that the RPI students are not ready to do all sports, so someone has to fill in, and it costs money

I'm not trying to say they can't do better than we now have, just that it's not just a simple matter of setting up to do hockey and forget about the rest.

We've been complaining about streaming quality for the better part of a decade. That doesn't appear to be having any impact, so I'm just not going to give them any more money until the quality improves. I'm sure I can find something better to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

Jim Hyla

ursusminor

marty

flyersgolf
If anyone has seen MLB.TV that is how good it can be. Let Cornell Communication students do the games using the latest streaming tech - get experience and credit. There is no reason for such a poor production at one of the leading computer institutions in the country. I have seen better high school productions for free.

Or hire the Engineers (RPI) to teach the Redcast crew what to use - programs, codecs,etc. - so that the product would be first rate. Every engineering school in the world is packed with folks who love to tinker with this crap. I think half the posters on this board could do better. Why do I waste time preaching?

It's too bad that RPI-TV wasn't allowed to broadcast their stream online this year. They still film the games which are not shown on a cable channel, but the only way to see them live is through B2LiveTV (now owned by America One) which sends out a significantly lower quality image. RPI pays America One and then America One charges for subscriptions (what a deal). The problem is that they broadcast all sports including those that only family members would pay to watch, which is most everything except men's hockey, and RPI gave them an exclusive which runs at least one more year.

Those who read the RPI thread on USCHO know that RPI-TV wants to broadcast their stream, as they did for the Cornell game a year ago, but they aren't allowed to. They do archive the video, so they can be seen at a later date. This year's Cornell game was televised, so RPI-TV didn't film it.

You can look at this as a problem if all you care about is hockey, but it's the same issue that all schools have including CU. You can get a lot of help, financial and otherwise to do men's hockey, football, and I'd guess men's lax and basketball. However what do you do about other sports. If we had a program like IC, maybe they could do more. But I gather from your post, that the RPI students are not ready to do all sports, so someone has to fill in, and it costs money

I'm not trying to say they can't do better than we now have, just that it's not just a simple matter of setting up to do hockey and forget about the rest.

RPI and Cornell are probably similar except for the fact that everything except men's and women's hockey at RPI is D-III. RPI has a all-sports mailing list, and besides for posts by the SID and his staff, there is very little except for men's hockey.

I don't know how America One gets films of other sports, but it may be the coaching staff's game films. RPI-TV has not filmed any sports except men's and women's hockey and football in over a year [www.rpitv.org].

Kyle Rose
We've been complaining about streaming quality for the better part of a decade. That doesn't appear to be having any impact, so I'm just not going to give them any more money until the quality improves. I'm sure I can find something better to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

I agree, I am not renewing.

Towerroad

Kyle Rose
We've been complaining about streaming quality for the better part of a decade. That doesn't appear to be having any impact, so I'm just not going to give them any more money until the quality improves. I'm sure I can find something better to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

I agree, I am not renewing.

I would like to see a solution that avoids punishing ourselves. It is still worth it to watch crappy video compared to no video at all.

Let's occupy the state capital or town square.

Roy 82

Towerroad

Kyle Rose
We've been complaining about streaming quality for the better part of a decade. That doesn't appear to be having any impact, so I'm just not going to give them any more money until the quality improves. I'm sure I can find something better to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

I agree, I am not renewing.

I would like to see a solution that avoids punishing ourselves.

Andy has shown the only thing he gives a crap about is money. So I'm making the only statement he'll understand.

It is still worth it to watch crappy video compared to no video at all.

This was true 6 years ago, but the quality of every other streaming broadcast on the internet has improved so dramatically since then that RedCast is virtually unwatchable now. It's really actually painful to watch: it looks like it's being broadcast from 1999.

Kyle Rose

Roy 82

Towerroad

Kyle Rose
We've been complaining about streaming quality for the better part of a decade. That doesn't appear to be having any impact, so I'm just not going to give them any more money until the quality improves. I'm sure I can find something better to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

I agree, I am not renewing.

I would like to see a solution that avoids punishing ourselves.

Andy has shown the only thing he gives a crap about is money. So I'm making the only statement he'll understand.

It is still worth it to watch crappy video compared to no video at all.

This was true 6 years ago, but the quality of every other streaming broadcast on the internet has improved so dramatically since then that RedCast is virtually unwatchable now. It's really actually painful to watch: it looks like it's being broadcast from 1999.

I would like to see a solution too but Kyle is right. Money talks... Kyle how much would you pay for a quality Cornell product?

Kyle Rose

Roy 82

Towerroad

Kyle Rose
We've been complaining about streaming quality for the better part of a decade. That doesn't appear to be having any impact, so I'm just not going to give them any more money until the quality improves. I'm sure I can find something better to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

I agree, I am not renewing.

I would like to see a solution that avoids punishing ourselves.

Andy has shown the only thing he gives a crap about is money. So I'm making the only statement he'll understand.

It is still worth it to watch crappy video compared to no video at all.

This was true 6 years ago, but the quality of every other streaming broadcast on the internet has improved so dramatically since then that RedCast is virtually unwatchable now. It's really actually painful to watch: it looks like it's being broadcast from 1999.

If only it always looked like the broadcasts from 2003...

Robb
If only it always looked like the broadcasts from 2003...

Go watch a high-def video from reason.tv. That's what I want it to look like. I'll settle for typical youtube quality.

I didn't see Age's broadcasts, so I can't speak to their quality.

No matter what eLynah fans say here, not enough people will boycott Redcast to make a difference. The right price to pay for a high quality webcast is $69.95 a year.

billhoward
No matter what eLynah fans say here, not enough people will boycott Redcast to make a difference.

Well, that's what they said about Egypt!

In all seriousness, the intersection of eLynah and Redcast is probably a fair pct of all Redcast users.

we cant even get a decent replay system and thats required stuff.. this is probably considered fluff.. the equipment to do this stuff is peanuts.. there has to be other reasons the school doesnt want to provide better feeds. they lose money on what they do now so maybe thats a concern.

upprdeck
we cant even get a decent replay system and thats required stuff.. this is probably considered fluff.. the equipment to do this stuff is peanuts.. there has to be other reasons the school doesnt want to provide better feeds. they lose money on what they do now so maybe thats a concern.

We need some rich alumni to endow a feed system

phillysportsfan

upprdeck
we cant even get a decent replay system and thats required stuff.. this is probably considered fluff.. the equipment to do this stuff is peanuts.. there has to be other reasons the school doesnt want to provide better feeds. they lose money on what they do now so maybe thats a concern.

We need some rich alumni to endow a feed system

Maybe Agway could be convinced to sponsor the feed system. They could figure out a play on words they'd find entertaining.

For those who don't frequent USCHO, you might find the links in these two posts interesting: Game 1 and Game 2, especially to the behind-the-scenes intercom chatter. They are for the first two RPI-Colgate playoff games. I don't think similar videos are up for game 3. I was very impressed with the way that the various camera shots are integrated.

Well the NHL Network proved it is possible to have a clear high def broadcast from Lynah. So much for the vortex theory. I think they also improved camera set up, since all the cameras are so small today you can put them about anywhere. Like others have said before, let the communications and engineering students do the broadcast for credit. They will make sure it is a quality broadcast.

flyersgolf
Well the NHL Network proved it is possible to have a clear high def broadcast from Lynah. So much for the vortex theory. I think they also improved camera set up, since all the cameras are so small today you can put them about anywhere. Like others have said before, let the communications and engineering students do the broadcast for credit. They will make sure it is a quality broadcast.

That is important, and is just money for a camera. No extra manpower needed. Now extra cameras and a producer to switch between them, well that's a lot harder.

cornellbbblog
Fourth, a potential announcement concerning Cornell's Redcast coverage which should further enhance each Cornell fan's online viewing/listening experience.

[cornellbasketball.blogspot.com]

Interesting quote from the basketball blog about Redcast, I wonder if the new football video scoreboard pushed them to improve it?

Anything that made Redcast suck less would be welcome. It is an embarrassment to our Alma Mater

The cost of the equipment to do this is next to nothing.. Cornell loses a lot of money running this project but the cost to provide better hockey feeds is just not a priority..

Does anyone really know how many subscribers there are. Last I knew cornell would have to triple/quadruple the cost to come close to breaking even. It would make sense to create a model that at least rewarded the sports that are really being watched with better feeds..

Maybe adding a chat box with user selectable avatars.

upperdeck
The cost of the equipment to do this is next to nothing.. Cornell loses a lot of money running this project but the cost to provide better hockey feeds is just not a priority..

Does anyone really know how many subscribers there are. Last I knew cornell would have to triple/quadruple the cost to come close to breaking even. It would make sense to create a model that at least rewarded the sports that are really being watched with better feeds..

How about using the tried and true revenue generation method of selling advertising. I think the best customer would be CU, use the intermission time (which is completely wasted now) to make a pitch to the alumni. All those companies that advertise in the various Cornell magazines might also be interested. Replay could be brought to you by Citibank.

The audience, however small, has enough interest and disposable income to subscribe. There ought to be a community that is interested in appealing to this group.

Next time I'm in Ithaca, I will use East Hill Car Wash if I'm in need of a carwash. Except if you get the car washed in the winter just before the game then drive a couple hours home, the car looks exactly the same as if it never got washed.

billhoward
Next time I'm in Ithaca, I will use East Hill Car Wash if I'm in need of a carwash. Except if you get the car washed in the winter just before the game then drive a couple hours home, the car looks exactly the same as if it never got washed.

All you need to care about is how your car looks in the parking lot near Lynah. The folks back in Jersey can look at your mess of a car and you can pretend you were off-roading.

billhoward
Next time I'm in Ithaca, I will use East Hill Car Wash if I'm in need of a carwash. Except if you get the car washed in the winter just before the game then drive a couple hours home, the car looks exactly the same as if it never got washed.

Get it washed twice then it will take twice as long to get dirty.

I'd like HTML5 to replace Flash for the broadcasts. But, more importantly, I'd like a consistently steady stream.

cbuckser
I'd like HTML5 to replace Flash for the broadcasts. But, more importantly, I'd like a consistently steady stream.

Man, what I wouldn't give for a video format I could stream on a phone. Also, They continue to feed us a video streaming resolution and bitrate from three to five years ago. I don't doubt that the commercial competitors all suck equally, but it feels like there's room in this space for someone to be _awesome_. Schools already lose money on this stuff, why not lose money and provide something that your alumni and player parents love?

cbuckser
I'd like HTML5 to replace Flash for the broadcasts. But, more importantly, I'd like a consistently steady stream.

I would like the games to look like they weren't filmed through a vaseline-smeared lens or lit by a 15 Hz strobe, and with the camerawork performed by someone who isn't drunk. Until the games look like ESPN3 video, they will get no more of my money. I've paid through the nose for shit for years with no improvement: no more.