Cornell 4 - SLU 3 (ot)

what could have turned out to be a crushing loss, ends up with a thrilling win..Nice to see Cornell really control both games , deserved 2 wins and somehow got both..

What a day. 4 point weekend, hoops gets off the schneid, wrestling shows the metropolitan area why they are the #1 team in the country.

upprdeck
what could have turned out to be a crushing loss, ends up with a thrilling win..Nice to see Cornell really control both games , deserved 2 wins and somehow got both..

Totally! We worked hard, out shot our opponents, and controlled the puck most of the games.

Let's hope we carry this momentum to the capital district next weekend.

Highlights are here:

[www.ecachockey.com]

Cornell was looking pretty bad at the end of the second period, taking lots of penalties. That led to a SLU 5x3 goal early in the 3rd period. Then a defensive lapse made it 3-1 SLU. However, the team showed a lot of character in making a big comeback. M and J Devin linked up for a deflected goal to tie up the game with less than 15 seconds left. J also deflected an M Devin shot the night before for a goal against Clarkson. M. Devin seems to have tamed his shot; his freshman year, it looked like he was more interested in breaking the glass than he was in scoring goals. Miller's OT PP goal came after a lot of hard work.

Great 4 point weekend.

Clarkson highlights are here:

[www.ecachockey.com]

My thoughts: We certainly looked a lot more poised in our own defensive end both nights compared to the game I saw earlier at Princeton. That said, they still had a tendency to try to poke check rather than take the man on defense. That showed on a couple of the goals where they let a guy come out of the corner, skate past a couple of players and right across the goal mouth and pop it in. I was surprised at how little they hit - except for when they took bad 5 minute majors.

I know Schafer's system is based on possession and defense, but there were so many times when we had the puck behind their goal line and we just held onto it. We didn't get anybody in front of the net, and didn't move the puck out to the point. It got frustrating.

But it was a great comeback, and you can't beat a 4 point weekend. I'll take it. Especially since it'll take a lot to go better than 0.500 for the rest of the season.

Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

My fuzzy memory was that strictly speaking the misconduct is not automatic, but there were no situations where the official could call a major without a misconduct. My fuzzy memory was clearly incorrect:

Boarding
SECTION 3. A player shall not body check, cross-check, elbow, charge or
trip an opponent from the front or side in such a manner that causes the
opponent to be thrown violently into the boards (see 6-23).
PENALTY—Minor or major at the discretion of the referee, based on
degree of violence of the impact with the boards. A game
misconduct may be assessed at the discretion of the referee.


I suppose I've just never seen a major penalty called in college without a misconduct attached to it, or at least if I saw it I didn't remember it. It also looks like you can't get a DQ for a simple boarding penalty - they'd have to call intent to injure or something.

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

Jeff Hopkins '82

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

The box score indicates just a major and nothing else:

	 STL-4 Bobby Torney (2-Cross-Checking) COR 0x3 	14:16 
	 STL-5 Matt Raley (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
	 COR-2 Dan Nicholls (5-Boarding) STL 1x2 	17:03 
	 COR-3 Armand de Swardt (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
 STL  	1 	- 	1  	6x5 PP 		 Kyle Flanagan (10) (Nick Pitsikoulis, Justin Baker) 	18:09

jtwcornell91

Jeff Hopkins '82

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

The box score indicates just a major and nothing else:

	 STL-4 Bobby Torney (2-Cross-Checking) COR 0x3 	14:16 
	 STL-5 Matt Raley (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
	 COR-2 Dan Nicholls (5-Boarding) STL 1x2 	17:03 
	 COR-3 Armand de Swardt (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
 STL  	1 	- 	1  	6x5 PP 		 Kyle Flanagan (10) (Nick Pitsikoulis, Justin Baker) 	18:09 

Well, all I can say is he originally went to the box. There was a discussion with both benches, then the ref skated up and removed him. Dan then skated off and was replaced in the box. I forget who served the 5:00 for him.

They may not have it in the box score, but that seems like an ejection to me.

Jeff Hopkins '82

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

Jeff, before you get too much further into this, it was announced as a 5 min major only. I remember thinking to myself that no other was called. I'm glad ACM confirmed that, especially since HE IS THE RINK ANNOUNCER.

So I'm also confused as to why he wasn't there. Might Coach have given him his own penalty?

Ithaca Journal says that Schafer benched him for the 3rd period--"it was a stupid penalty", he said.

sjact
Ithaca Journal says that Schafer benched him for the 3rd period--"it was a stupid penalty", he said.

As was Kary's subsequent high-stick after the buzzer to put the team two men down.

Jeff Hopkins '82
I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

No offense, but I don't remember having that conversation.

Jeff Hopkins '82

jtwcornell91

Jeff Hopkins '82

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

The box score indicates just a major and nothing else:

	 STL-4 Bobby Torney (2-Cross-Checking) COR 0x3 	14:16 
	 STL-5 Matt Raley (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
	 COR-2 Dan Nicholls (5-Boarding) STL 1x2 	17:03 
	 COR-3 Armand de Swardt (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
 STL  	1 	- 	1  	6x5 PP 		 Kyle Flanagan (10) (Nick Pitsikoulis, Justin Baker) 	18:09 

Well, all I can say is he originally went to the box. There was a discussion with both benches, then the ref skated up and removed him. Dan then skated off and was replaced in the box. I forget who served the 5:00 for him.

They may not have it in the box score, but that seems like an ejection to me.

My guess would be that since he got a non-releasable penalty that
would expire after the end of the period, he was sent to the locker
room like someone who gets a 10-minute misconduct in the last half of
the period. Note that, according to the box score, de Swardt also got
a minor at the time, so maybe you saw him go to the box?

Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

jtwcornell91

Jeff Hopkins '82

jtwcornell91

Jeff Hopkins '82

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

The box score indicates just a major and nothing else:

	 STL-4 Bobby Torney (2-Cross-Checking) COR 0x3 	14:16 
	 STL-5 Matt Raley (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
	 COR-2 Dan Nicholls (5-Boarding) STL 1x2 	17:03 
	 COR-3 Armand de Swardt (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
 STL  	1 	- 	1  	6x5 PP 		 Kyle Flanagan (10) (Nick Pitsikoulis, Justin Baker) 	18:09 

Well, all I can say is he originally went to the box. There was a discussion with both benches, then the ref skated up and removed him. Dan then skated off and was replaced in the box. I forget who served the 5:00 for him.

They may not have it in the box score, but that seems like an ejection to me.

My guess would be that since he got a non-releasable penalty that
would expire after the end of the period, he was sent to the locker
room like someone who gets a 10-minute misconduct in the last half of
the period. Note that, according to the box score, de Swardt also got
a minor at the time, so maybe you saw him go to the box?

I think you're probably right, John. I guess I just interpreted his leaving the box as an ejection, rather than simply leaving the ice for the rest of the period. Because I surely remember thinking right after the hit that it was a dumb penalty that was going to get him tossed. And when the 5:00 went up on the board...well that was that. And deSwardt going in for his own minor is probably what I remember as well.

And Jim, I hadn't realized who ACM was when I read his post, Otherwise, I wouldn't have replied. I agree that he is THE definite source.

Trotsky
Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

Or somebody sat for him.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

Or somebody sat for him.

What I'm saying is, that's the critical test (not whether he was in the box at the end of the second).

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

Or somebody sat for him.

What I'm saying is, that's the critical test (not whether he was in the box at the end of the second).

Ahh. Gotcha. Boy I'm being dense today.

Would I be tempting the wrath of this board by saying I don't remember seeing him in the box and I think somebody sat for him?

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

Or somebody sat for him.

What I'm saying is, that's the critical test (not whether he was in the box at the end of the second).

Ahh. Gotcha. Boy I'm being dense today.

Would I be tempting the wrath of this board by saying I don't remember seeing him in the box and I think somebody sat for him?

I'm almost sure DeSwart sat for him at the beginning of the third. Not to start this all over again, but Prof Boyer, who sits 2 rows in front of me, asked me why DeSwart was in the box at the start of the third. So I think that solves the puzzle: 5 min major, no DQ, coach sat him out, and DeSwart got to sit in the box again.

I'm happy coach did that, meaning if he felt it was the right way to give the message, he did it regardless that the team would be shorthanded.

jtwcornell91

Jeff Hopkins '82

ACM

redice

Tom Lento

WillCMJr
Anyone know why Nicholls was out the 3rd period? Noticed him at the end of the rink in a suit. His penalty was only a 5min.

In the NCAA I believe 5 minute majors come with an automatic game misconduct or game disqualification, depending on the type and severity of the penalty. I don't know if Nicholls got a misconduct or a DQ (I seem to remember it being a misconduct), but either way he'd be out for the remainder of the SLU game.

I'm not aware that game misconducts or game DQ's are automatic....But, they did announce that he got a 5 minute major and a game misconduct...Does anyone else know if it's automatic?

"They" did?

Nicholls got a major for boarding. Period. No misconduct, no game misconduct, no disqualification. Just a major for boarding.

So why did he not come out for the third period? Either he was injured, or ...

I'm pretty sure he got a misconduct. I remember confirming it with Beeeej that it wasn't a DQ, and him saying that some refs are fond of the DQ, but Feola is less prone to DQ and more likely to just call a misconduct.

And at this point, I'd be surprised if a 5 minute major didn't come with a misconduct. In fact I think of it as "5 and game" rather than a 5 minute major.

The box score indicates just a major and nothing else:

	 STL-4 Bobby Torney (2-Cross-Checking) COR 0x3 	14:16 
	 STL-5 Matt Raley (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
	 COR-2 Dan Nicholls (5-Boarding) STL 1x2 	17:03 
	 COR-3 Armand de Swardt (2-Roughing) 	17:03 
 STL  	1 	- 	1  	6x5 PP 		 Kyle Flanagan (10) (Nick Pitsikoulis, Justin Baker) 	18:09 

Yeah, and 11 minutes on 4 penalties for Cornell, which makes sense - 3 minors and a major.

There was a box score on cornellbigred.com that had Cornell listed for 19 minutes on 4 penalties, so I assumed there was a misconduct that wasn't listed for some reason. That combined with my fuzzy memory started this whole thing.

But I'm with Jeff - I think of majors as "5 and a game" when I watch college hockey. Interesting that Nicholls didn't get a misconduct for this one.

Too many penalties in general this season:

[www.ecachockey.com]

BigRedHockeyFan
Too many penalties in general this season:

[www.ecachockey.com]

Ouch, you aren't kidding. Good thing the PK continues to be the best in the conference. Have there been a lot of matching penalties, though? Or misconducts that bump up the PIM count? According to collegehockeystats.net we've been shorthanded significantly fewer times than RPI and Clarkson, and slightly fewer than SLU and Yale and Princeton and Colgate.

Jim Hyla

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

Or somebody sat for him.

What I'm saying is, that's the critical test (not whether he was in the box at the end of the second).

Ahh. Gotcha. Boy I'm being dense today.

Would I be tempting the wrath of this board by saying I don't remember seeing him in the box and I think somebody sat for him?

I'm almost sure DeSwart sat for him at the beginning of the third. Not to start this all over again, but Prof Boyer, who sits 2 rows in front of me, asked me why DeSwart was in the box at the start of the third. So I think that solves the puzzle: 5 min major, no DQ, coach sat him out, and DeSwart got to sit in the box again.

It hadn't occurred to me that the rules would allow a coach to do that. If a player gets injured, I'm sure there must be a provision to have someone else sit his releasable penalty, but I guess there must be something in the rules that allows the penalized team to remove a player from the game and replace him in the penalty box...

coach sat him and told the Pbox someone else was sitting his penalty.. he did something stupid and he knows it and the coach made a point that the whole team will think about next time..

upprdeck
coach sat him and told the Pbox someone else was sitting his penalty.. he did something stupid and he knows it and the coach made a point that the whole team will think about next time..

From Schafer's email sent out today:

"Late in the second period, we received a 5-minute boarding call that was a stupid penalty by one of our players who I sat for the rest of the game."

jtwcornell91

Jim Hyla

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
Wouldn't Nicholls have to have been in the box for the first 2:03 of the third?

Or somebody sat for him.

What I'm saying is, that's the critical test (not whether he was in the box at the end of the second).

Ahh. Gotcha. Boy I'm being dense today.

Would I be tempting the wrath of this board by saying I don't remember seeing him in the box and I think somebody sat for him?

I'm almost sure DeSwart sat for him at the beginning of the third. Not to start this all over again, but Prof Boyer, who sits 2 rows in front of me, asked me why DeSwart was in the box at the start of the third. So I think that solves the puzzle: 5 min major, no DQ, coach sat him out, and DeSwart got to sit in the box again.

It hadn't occurred to me that the rules would allow a coach to do that. If a player gets injured, I'm sure there must be a provision to have someone else sit his releasable penalty, but I guess there must be something in the rules that allows the penalized team to remove a player from the game and replace him in the penalty box...

I suppose the NCAA feels this is more humane than having the coach pull a Bobby Knight so the player would qualify as having an injury.

Tom Lento
But I'm with Jeff - I think of majors as "5 and a game" when I watch college hockey. Interesting that Nicholls didn't get a misconduct for this one.

I'm not sure if this was an old rule, or where you two get that thinking from, but it's just not accurate. There are both 5 and 10 minute majors, without automatic game disqualifications. We've had each this year as a matter-of-fact.

WillCMJr

Tom Lento
But I'm with Jeff - I think of majors as "5 and a game" when I watch college hockey. Interesting that Nicholls didn't get a misconduct for this one.

I'm not sure if this was an old rule, or where you two get that thinking from, but it's just not accurate. There are both 5 and 10 minute majors, without automatic game disqualifications. We've had each this year as a matter-of-fact.

That's not quite right. There is only one kind of major penalty, the five-minute kind.

There are two kinds of misconduct penalties, either ten-minute or game. In both cases the player is taken out of action for the specified time, but the team does not play short-handed. (It's only the game misconduct penalties, not the 10-minute ones, that are tallied up and lead to missing games after the accumulation of three in a season.) Often the misconduct penalty comes on top of a minor or major penalty, in which case the player serves both (misconduct second), with the team shorthanded during the minor or major.

A disqualification penalty kicks you out for the rest of the game and the next (or more) and you get a major, too, so it's sort of "a game and 5" (as opposed to "5 and a game" ).

The penalty that is getting a lot of attention lately is hitting from behind into the boards. That one specifically gets you both a major and either a game misconduct or a disqualification at the discretion of the referee. It's the same with with butt-ending or with hitting the head or neck on purpose. There are other combinations, such as if a player from the bench interferes with a breakaway, it's a minor and a misconduct. Same with breaking your stick so it cannot be measured to see whether it is illegal.

In the case of Nicholls being benched, there isn't any explicit provision in the rules, but the procedure that was followed was what is laid out for an injured player who receives a major (or minor) penalty.

David Harding

WillCMJr

Tom Lento
But I'm with Jeff - I think of majors as "5 and a game" when I watch college hockey. Interesting that Nicholls didn't get a misconduct for this one.

I'm not sure if this was an old rule, or where you two get that thinking from, but it's just not accurate. There are both 5 and 10 minute majors, without automatic game disqualifications. We've had each this year as a matter-of-fact.

That's not quite right. There is only one kind of major penalty, the five-minute kind.

There are two kinds of misconduct penalties, either ten-minute or game. In both cases the player is taken out of action for the specified time, but the team does not play short-handed. (It's only the game misconduct penalties, not the 10-minute ones, that are tallied up and lead to missing games after the accumulation of three in a season.) Often the misconduct penalty comes on top of a minor or major penalty, in which case the player serves both (misconduct second), with the team shorthanded during the minor or major.

A disqualification penalty kicks you out for the rest of the game and the next (or more) and you get a major, too, so it's sort of "a game and 5" (as opposed to "5 and a game" ).

The penalty that is getting a lot of attention lately is hitting from behind into the boards. That one specifically gets you both a major and either a game misconduct or a disqualification at the discretion of the referee. It's the same with with butt-ending or with hitting the head or neck on purpose. There are other combinations, such as if a player from the bench interferes with a breakaway, it's a minor and a misconduct. Same with breaking your stick so it cannot be measured to see whether it is illegal.

In the case of Nicholls being benched, there isn't any explicit provision in the rules, but the procedure that was followed was what is laid out for an injured player who receives a major (or minor) penalty.

What David said. The thinking comes from the way major penalties are applied in practice - they almost always include a game misconduct, at least as far as I can remember. I think this is probably due to the emphasis on hitting from behind into the boards that David mentions - that does require a game misconduct (or DQ at the discretion of the referee). I guess another way to put it is 5 minute majors tend to be called for flagrant infractions (hitting from behind into the boards, butt-ending, intentional contact to the head or fighting) which come with a mandatory game misconduct or dq in the NCAA.

Boarding, charging, elbowing, and cross checking are some of the penalties that can go for majors with optional game misconducts, but like I said I can't think of any other cases where a major was called and the misconduct was not assessed. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and it doesn't even mean I've never seen one before last weekend, but I can't think of an example from college hockey.

David Harding
That's not quite right. There is only one kind of major penalty, the five-minute kind.

You're right David, thanks for the correction, sorry for the mistype. Typed it quickly, was just trying to point out there are 5 and 10 minute penalties without a game disqual.

Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and it doesn't even mean I've never seen one before last weekend, but I can't think of an example from college hockey.

Sawada got a 5 minute boarding penalty without a game misconduct in the second game of the ECAC QFs against Quinnipiac on March 10, 2007. Couldn't find a box score. Hopefully someone else can.

tretiak

Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and it doesn't even mean I've never seen one before last weekend, but I can't think of an example from college hockey.

Sawada got a 5 minute boarding penalty without a game misconduct in the second game of the ECAC QFs against Quinnipiac on March 10, 2007. Couldn't find a box score. Hopefully someone else can.

Collegehockeystats.net

Tom Lento
I guess another way to put it is 5 minute majors tend to be called for flagrant infractions (hitting from behind into the boards, butt-ending, intentional contact to the head or fighting) which come with a mandatory game misconduct or dq in the NCAA.

I don't know if it has any basis in the rules, but I have heard several broadcasters describe the difference between the 2- and 5-minute versions of the same penalty as "intent to injure." But radio guys have been known to spontaneously invent rules, players, historical events, or entire countries.

Joe Devin makes ECAC Player of the Week.

Trotsky

Tom Lento
I guess another way to put it is 5 minute majors tend to be called for flagrant infractions (hitting from behind into the boards, butt-ending, intentional contact to the head or fighting) which come with a mandatory game misconduct or dq in the NCAA.

I don't know if it has any basis in the rules, but I have heard several broadcasters describe the difference between the 2- and 5-minute versions of the same penalty as "intent to injure." But radio guys have been known to spontaneously invent rules, players, historical events, or entire countries.

Well, I'd have to hope there's never truly an intent to injure. If there's a distinction, it would be between "I'm gonna pound the shit out of that guy" and "Oh shit. I'm going to hit that guy the wrong way."

In reality I suspect that it simply comes down to the league deciding that they're going to crack down on certain penalties, and making them 5:00 as a major discouragement with no referee discretion.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Tom Lento
I guess another way to put it is 5 minute majors tend to be called for flagrant infractions (hitting from behind into the boards, butt-ending, intentional contact to the head or fighting) which come with a mandatory game misconduct or dq in the NCAA.

I don't know if it has any basis in the rules, but I have heard several broadcasters describe the difference between the 2- and 5-minute versions of the same penalty as "intent to injure." But radio guys have been known to spontaneously invent rules, players, historical events, or entire countries.

Well, I'd have to hope there's never truly an intent to injure. If there's a distinction, it would be between "I'm gonna pound the shit out of that guy" and "Oh shit. I'm going to hit that guy the wrong way."

In reality I suspect that it simply comes down to the league deciding that they're going to crack down on certain penalties, and making them 5:00 as a major discouragement with no referee discretion.

In the case of boarding, the rule book says

PENALTY-Minor or major at the discretion of the referee, based on the degree of violence of the impact with the boards. A game misconduct may be assessed at the discretion of the referee.

For all the rest where there is an option, the rules do not specify the basis for the discretion. However, in Part II of the book, Interpretations, there are "approved rulings" on several infractions, such as elbowing:

A minor penalty should be assessed in most situations. When the elbow is used in a flagrant or violent manner, a major penalty should be assessed. Whenever injury results from fouling an opponent with an elbow, a disqualification penalty must be served.

ACM

tretiak

Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and it doesn't even mean I've never seen one before last weekend, but I can't think of an example from college hockey.

Sawada got a 5 minute boarding penalty without a game misconduct in the second game of the ECAC QFs against Quinnipiac on March 10, 2007. Couldn't find a box score. Hopefully someone else can.

Collegehockeystats.net

And there's an example from close to home.

Sadly, I did not see that game, but I hardly expect you all to go digging through every box score from the last 15-ish years to find one that I've actually witnessed.

It would be interesting to know what % of major penalties come without misconducts, but again - I don't care enough to do it and I don't expect anybody else to take the trouble.