North Dakota Postgame 1/23

Well, if Dartmouth can hang on Cornell will at least have picked up percentage against Union.

Edit: and they do. So:

1. .727 Cornell 7-2-2
2. .708 Union 7-2-3
3. .667 St. Lawrence 7-3-2
3. .667 Yale 7-3-2

We stood around tonight a LOT. I hope that changes during the rest of the season--or it might now bode well.....

From The Pregame Thread
Posted by: Oat (---.revip2.asianet.co.th) [ PM ]
Date: January 23, 2010 09:09PM

Robb
And an absolutely horrible giveaway in our zone leads to UND's 2nd goal. Ugh. D'agostino brought it out way too casually from behind our net and the Sioux player just picked him clean from behind.



Was it a "clean" pick? I didn't see it, but Greening immediately rushed to the referee after the goal and then Schafer argued for a while.

No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

Jim Hyla
No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

I have not taken a look at a replay yet, but at first blush it appeared to be a lot of stick work to me too. But again, Cornell got outworked, especially between the blue lines. UND had awesome puck pressure all weekend long.

Edit: I'll say outworked except in their own end. Cornell played fantastic defense all weekend too.

Jim Hyla

From The Pregame Thread
Posted by: Oat (---.revip2.asianet.co.th) [ PM ]
Date: January 23, 2010 09:09PM

Robb
And an absolutely horrible giveaway in our zone leads to UND's 2nd goal. Ugh. D'agostino brought it out way too casually from behind our net and the Sioux player just picked him clean from behind.



Was it a "clean" pick? I didn't see it, but Greening immediately rushed to the referee after the goal and then Schafer argued for a while.

No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

I may be arguing semantics, but I would not say that ND outplayed Cornell. ND likely has better players but I thought Cornell generated more legitimate scoring chances up to that point in the game by playing disciplined, "smart" hockey. ND at times kept control of the puck with superior skating/passing, but Cornell didn't recklessly chase or forget positioning and ND had very few threatening shots to show for it. It felt to me like a game that "should" have gone to Cornell, whereas last night "should" have gone to ND. It reminds me of the two game series at BU a few years back when BU was ranked a little higher and Cornell won the game they should have lost and lost the game they should have won.

(Edits for typos. I'm tired. )

I thought the 2nd ND goal resulted from a lackadaisical breakout, but also our guy was tripped right in front of our net as the puck was being skated out. That's how I saw it from section F.

Funny thing was, I thought I heard the Cornell goal announced with 9 seconds remaining as "Theeeee TYING Cornell goal, scored by . . . ".
I swear he said "tying". He definitely did not say "first" Cornell goal, as I would have expected. At first I though "ouch, what an embarrassing misstatement" but then I thought it was deliberate protest. That 2nd UND goal was BS because it was the direct result a BLATANT penalty (Cornell's lackadaisical play is beside the point if penalties are not being called).
Overall not the most exciting hockey I've seen in Lynah due to UND shutting down and playing pretty good defense, despite our good pressure at the end.

Can anyone else comment if they noticed how the CU goal was announced?

Travis 02
He definitely did not say "first" Cornell goal, as I would have expected.

Our first goal is announced as "The Cornell goal..." not "The first Cornell goal..."

Trotsky

Travis 02
He definitely did not say "first" Cornell goal, as I would have expected.

Our first goal is announced as "The Cornell goal..." not "The first Cornell goal..."

Agree and that's how I heard it.

Despite the loss, Cornell improves in PWR from 17(t) to 15.

Travis 02
I thought the 2nd ND goal resulted from a lackadaisical breakout, but also our guy was tripped right in front of our net as the puck was being skated out. That's how I saw it from section F.

Funny thing was, I thought I heard the Cornell goal announced with 9 seconds remaining as "Theeeee TYING Cornell goal, scored by . . . ".
I swear he said "tying". He definitely did not say "first" Cornell goal, as I would have expected. At first I though "ouch, what an embarrassing misstatement" but then I thought it was deliberate protest. That 2nd UND goal was BS because it was the direct result a BLATANT penalty (Cornell's lackadaisical play is beside the point if penalties are not being called).
Overall not the most exciting hockey I've seen in Lynah due to UND shutting down and playing pretty good defense, despite our good pressure at the end.

Can anyone else comment if they noticed how the CU goal was announced?

I can. But I won't.

Jim Hyla

From The Pregame Thread
Posted by: Oat (---.revip2.asianet.co.th) [ PM ]
Date: January 23, 2010 09:09PM

Robb
And an absolutely horrible giveaway in our zone leads to UND's 2nd goal. Ugh. D'agostino brought it out way too casually from behind our net and the Sioux player just picked him clean from behind.



Was it a "clean" pick? I didn't see it, but Greening immediately rushed to the referee after the goal and then Schafer argued for a while.

No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

I had two NoDak fans sitting next to me and they looked rather embarrassed at that goal. Both agreed it was a blatant penalty and should have been called (though, of course, they were pleased to score).

CK

CKinsland

Jim Hyla

From The Pregame Thread
Posted by: Oat (---.revip2.asianet.co.th) [ PM ]
Date: January 23, 2010 09:09PM

Robb
And an absolutely horrible giveaway in our zone leads to UND's 2nd goal. Ugh. D'agostino brought it out way too casually from behind our net and the Sioux player just picked him clean from behind.



Was it a "clean" pick? I didn't see it, but Greening immediately rushed to the referee after the goal and then Schafer argued for a while.

No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

I had two NoDak fans sitting next to me and they looked rather embarrassed at that goal. Both agreed it was a blatant penalty and should have been called (though, of course, they were pleased to score).

CK

Shame to have the game decided in that way. I didn't have the best view from C, but it sure looked like a trip.

Too bad we didn't have TWC coverage Saturday night with its replay-for-the-viewers capability. Our grief would be more manageable knowing it could have been a 1-1 tie.

ithacat

CKinsland

Jim Hyla

From The Pregame Thread
Posted by: Oat (---.revip2.asianet.co.th) [ PM ]
Date: January 23, 2010 09:09PM

Robb
And an absolutely horrible giveaway in our zone leads to UND's 2nd goal. Ugh. D'agostino brought it out way too casually from behind our net and the Sioux player just picked him clean from behind.



Was it a "clean" pick? I didn't see it, but Greening immediately rushed to the referee after the goal and then Schafer argued for a while.

No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

I had two NoDak fans sitting next to me and they looked rather embarrassed at that goal. Both agreed it was a blatant penalty and should have been called (though, of course, they were pleased to score).

CK

Shame to have the game decided in that way. I didn't have the best view from C, but it sure looked like a trip.

Have to agree - one of the more blatant no-calls I've seen in a long time. It appeared as if the ND player grabbed the CU player from behind by the scruff of his neck and hauled him down - almost like a horsecollar. It was quick, but obvious.

CUontheslopes

ithacat

CKinsland

Jim Hyla

From The Pregame Thread
Posted by: Oat (---.revip2.asianet.co.th) [ PM ]
Date: January 23, 2010 09:09PM

Robb
And an absolutely horrible giveaway in our zone leads to UND's 2nd goal. Ugh. D'agostino brought it out way too casually from behind our net and the Sioux player just picked him clean from behind.



Was it a "clean" pick? I didn't see it, but Greening immediately rushed to the referee after the goal and then Schafer argued for a while.

No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

Have to agree - one of the more blatant no-calls I've seen in a long time. It appeared as if the ND player grabbed the CU player from behind by the scruff of his neck and hauled him down - almost like a horsecollar. It was quick, but obvious.

I had two NoDak fans sitting next to me and they looked rather embarrassed at that goal. Both agreed it was a blatant penalty and should have been called (though, of course, they were pleased to score).

CK

Shame to have the game decided in that way. I didn't have the best view from C, but it sure looked like a trip.

? This was a good post the first time, but did it have to be repeated?

thanks - fixed it.

The announcer said "Theee TYING Cornell goal" when announcing our first goal with 9 seconds left. That's my story, and until I hear audio / see video showing otherwise, I'm sticking to it.

Art said as he always does when Cornell scores its first goal at home: "The Cornell goal..." Same cadence with no variation!

Larry72
Art said as he always does when Cornell scores its first goal at home: "The Cornell goal..." Same cadence with no variation!

I have only watched a college hockey game away from Lynah at Starr, but I would guess that we have one of the most reserved (classy) PA announcers anywhere in Arthur Mintz. When he announces the Cornell starting lineup and Cornell goals, his clear annunciation and staid tone work well because he doesn't upstage the players' celebrations and fans' cheering and also because it is an old-school, traditional style, which echo the program's history and Lynah experience. Of course, that's almost true by definition, since he's been the "voice" for ages now and is a part of the fabric.

Are there any other rink announcers out there in the same vein?

Larry72
Art said as he always does when Cornell scores its first goal at home: "The Cornell goal..." Same cadence with no variation!

I do appreciate Art's style of announcing, and I acknowledge that he probably did not change anything and that I'm probably wrong, but I'll keep this notion filed away until I hear some audio evidence, should it ever arise. If it doesn't, it's of little importance anyway.

I always loved his cadence. It reminded me of Bob Sheppard every announcement.

Some nice comments about their experience at Lynah on siouxsports.com forum. Here's a link to some pix one of their fans posted. Of course they're mostly of the Sioux, but it interesting to see some of our color through their eyes.

Jim Hyla
Some nice comments about their experience at Lynah on siouxsports.com forum. Here's a link to some pix one of their fans posted. Of course they're mostly of the Sioux, but it interesting to see some of our color through their eyes.

Aww, they put a little flag in their hotel room window! That's so cute.

Lauren '06

Jim Hyla
Some nice comments about their experience at Lynah on siouxsports.com forum. Here's a link to some pix one of their fans posted. Of course they're mostly of the Sioux, but it interesting to see some of our color through their eyes.

Aww, they put a little flag in their hotel room window! That's so cute.

There's a whole page of links to collections of photos.

Lauren '06

Jim Hyla
Some nice comments about their experience at Lynah on siouxsports.com forum. Here's a link to some pix one of their fans posted. Of course they're mostly of the Sioux, but it interesting to see some of our color through their eyes.

Aww, they put a little flag in their hotel room window! That's so cute.

My sarcasm detector isn't working right now, so I don't know if you were being serious or not. I think it's a totally sweet idea, and if I ever come into possession of a CU flag, I'll probably do the same thing myself someday.

HeafDog

Lauren '06

Jim Hyla
Some nice comments about their experience at Lynah on siouxsports.com forum. Here's a link to some pix one of their fans posted. Of course they're mostly of the Sioux, but it interesting to see some of our color through their eyes.

Aww, they put a little flag in their hotel room window! That's so cute.

My sarcasm detector isn't working right now, so I don't know if you were being serious or not. I think it's a totally sweet idea, and if I ever come into possession of a CU flag, I'll probably do the same thing myself someday.

No no, totally sincere.

The love us, they really love us.

Sioux Sports
[forum.siouxsports.com] As for the Cornell fans, my word for them would have to be cordial. Very gracious in winning and losing. Cannot believe how many people thanked us for coming, asked us questions about UND, complimented our team, and fans. And one gentlemen who was so amazed at Hakstol's modesty at the booster luncheon, called him a class act. Which he is obviously. It was an all around great weekend, and all Sioux fans should look to attend the Cornell series if it happens again in the future. I will. I enjoyed meeting the other MD Sioux fans for drinks after the game

imafrshmn

Larry72
Art said as he always does when Cornell scores its first goal at home: "The Cornell goal..." Same cadence with no variation!

I have only watched a college hockey game away from Lynah at Starr, but I would guess that we have one of the most reserved (classy) PA announcers anywhere in Arthur Mintz. When he announces the Cornell starting lineup and Cornell goals, his clear annunciation and staid tone work well because he doesn't upstage the players' celebrations and fans' cheering and also because it is an old-school, traditional style, which echo the program's history and Lynah experience. Of course, that's almost true by definition, since he's been the "voice" for ages now and is a part of the fabric.

Are there any other rink announcers out there in the same vein?

Not many!! Most feel that screaming their (minimal) brains out or adding wild voice inflection makes THEM the show. To me, it just shows me that they're idiots! The players are the show and that's the way it should stay!!

Arthur, keep up the good work and don't ever be tempted to mimic these mental midgets!! You exude class and that's the way it should be.

This for some reason reminds me of the sax player leaning out of the window at the fleabag hotel attached to the old Boston Garden. He serenaded us with "On Wisconsin". In '73 I think I was a bit jealous.

Greening on All-Acess this past Sat. His interview with Jason starts around 41 min mark.

Of course we love you guys, I wish I could have gone to the game.

marty
This for some reason reminds me of the sax player leaning out of the window at the fleabag hotel attached to the old Boston Garden. He serenaded us with "On Wisconsin". In '73 I think I was a bit jealous.

How could we be up 5-2 starting the third and not have won that freaking game?

Great as Cornell fans are, there's also the impressiveness of sheer numbers. Does anyone else have a memory of bus after bus disgorging Wisconsin fans at the Garden? That's an 1100-mile trip. That's dedication.

Larry72

Are there any other rink announcers out there in the same vein?

The BU announcer is similar and has probably been around just as long as Arthur.

munchkin

Larry72

Are there any other rink announcers out there in the same vein?

The BU announcer is similar and has probably been around just as long as Arthur.

They're few and far between, sad to say.

Jim Hyla
No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

Just got an email distribution from Schafer with an attached video clip of that goal. No question. It was a terrible "no call." Mike wrote: "We were told the referee didn't see Ross pulled down." The ref had to be blind.

Al DeFlorio

munchkin

Larry72

Are there any other rink announcers out there in the same vein?

The BU announcer is similar and has probably been around just as long as Arthur.

They're few and far between, sad to say.

We're headed to Quinnipiac in a week where it's an organized party-and-cheering atmosphere, students get same-colored tees (handed out?), the scoreboard tells you when and what to chant, the announcer is on a perpetual we're-going-to-Disneyworld high ... but they're enjoying hockey in their own way. And for anybody who likes to take pictures, the rink is lit like being inside a television studio. That's what happens when you spend $50 million on a rink and basketball arena. Al, we'll miss you on this trip. I'm already starting to lust after that clam pizza at Pepe's before the game.

billhoward
I'm already starting to lust after that clam pizza at Pepe's before the game.

We were at Pepe's Monday, Bill, on the way home from Philadelphia in the deluge. Well, not Pepe's, exactly--they are closed till Saturday for "maintenance"--but their little place next door, The Spot, the original Pepe's. The white clam pie was great, as was the large half-plain (no mozz), half mushroom pie. Took eight slices home and enjoyed for lunch today and again tomorrow or Friday. Enjoy yours. We'll be in Sibenik.

Al DeFlorio

Jim Hyla
No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

Just got an email distribution from Schafer with an attached video clip of that goal. No question. It was a terrible "no call." Mike wrote: "We were told the referee didn't see Ross pulled down." The ref had to be blind.

Any chance of sending that along to ts86? I'd be interested to see that one, as I'd like to compare it with my memory from section F.

Travis 02

Al DeFlorio

Jim Hyla
No it was not a clean pick. Terrible no call. The whole rink, Cornell bench and coaches were in uproar over it. I'm going to look at the Redcast, but a terrible way to end a good game. Yes, again they outplayed us, they have better players than we do; but to take the wind out of our sails that way was terrible.

Just got an email distribution from Schafer with an attached video clip of that goal. No question. It was a terrible "no call." Mike wrote: "We were told the referee didn't see Ross pulled down." The ref had to be blind.

Any chance of sending that along to ts86? I'd be interested to see that one, as I'd like to compare it with my memory from section F.

If you're ts86 at cornell.edu, it's been sent.

Al DeFlorio
Just got an email distribution from Schafer with an attached video clip of that goal. No question. It was a terrible "no call." Mike wrote: "We were told the referee didn't see Ross pulled down." The ref had to be blind.

Curious that I didn't get this. Can you forward this to me or post it to youtube? Thanks.

Kyle Rose

Al DeFlorio
Just got an email distribution from Schafer with an attached video clip of that goal. No question. It was a terrible "no call." Mike wrote: "We were told the referee didn't see Ross pulled down." The ref had to be blind.

Curious that I didn't get this. Can you forward this to me or post it to youtube? Thanks.

Seconded on posting this to youtube, if you'd be so kind

billhoward

Al DeFlorio

munchkin

Larry72

Are there any other rink announcers out there in the same vein?

The BU announcer is similar and has probably been around just as long as Arthur.

They're few and far between, sad to say.

We're headed to Quinnipiac in a week where it's an organized party-and-cheering atmosphere, students get same-colored tees (handed out?), the scoreboard tells you when and what to chant, the announcer is on a perpetual we're-going-to-Disneyworld high ... but they're enjoying hockey in their own way. And for anybody who likes to take pictures, the rink is lit like being inside a television studio. That's what happens when you spend $50 million on a rink and basketball arena. Al, we'll miss you on this trip. I'm already starting to lust after that clam pizza at Pepe's before the game.

You forgot about the home team skating out of a giant, inflatable bobcat head.

RichH
You forgot about the home team skating out of a giant, inflatable bobcat head.

Oops. I was blocking. Now I'm having the flashback.

Geez. There's a ref 3 feet from the end boards at the longitudinal level of the face off dot looking right at the play! I was in Row 2 of Section K and closer to it than he was and I couldn't understand the no-call at the time.

Upon further review, I am still not convinced it was a penalty. The UND player does have his stick in there, but he also appears to get a bit of hip onto Ross. If it was the hip that sent Ross sprawling, then that's a legal check on the puck carrier. If it was the stick, then it's hooking.

Either way, it still looks like Ross was caught off guard. If he'd been paying more attention, he would have realized the guy was coming from behind and either been stronger on his skates or just flipped the puck out of the zone.

Robb
Upon further review, I am still not convinced it was a penalty. The UND player does have his stick in there, but he also appears to get a bit of hip onto Ross. If it was the hip that sent Ross sprawling, then that's a legal check on the puck carrier. If it was the stick, then it's hooking.

Either way, it still looks like Ross was caught off guard. If he'd been paying more attention, he would have realized the guy was coming from behind and either been stronger on his skates or just flipped the puck out of the zone.

These days, a forechecker putting his stick in the puck carrier's midsection is a hook regardless of whether it was the stick or a hip that knocked the puck carrier down.

That said, Nick D'Agostino could have passed the puck to his defense partner, who was in position to receive a D-to-D pass. As long as Mike Schafer forgets which defenseman turned the puck over and thinks that it should have been a penalty, Nick shouldn't lose ice time over it.

If you're caught by surprise you're not going to have time to make that pass, even if you have the presence of mind. I can't fault Nick on this.

I may be in the minority here, but what else is new. I'm also not 100% convinced that it was a penalty.

At the time it happened I wasn't sure, but based on the Lynah outrage I figured everyone else was right, and I just missed it. A friend of mine who sits on the other side of the rink asked me about it on the way out, and I said I wasn't sure. He told me he saw it clealry, and there was no doubt in his mind a penalty should have been called.

Watching the replay over and over, pausing it, etc., it looks like there might have been some inadvertent skate to skate contact that resulted in the fall. There's one frame of the video in particular that shows pretty clearly how the fall started. It looks like the Cornell player is losing the edge on his left skate. It's just not clear if that was from incidental contact, or if the UND's player stick was involved, which of course would make all the difference.

I was sitting in section H. The UND player didn't hook him, he laid a cross check into Nick's back. Cross check. Hit from behind. One of those should have been called.

I have not watched the video. So, I'll withhold opinion on the penalty.

But, if after the level of video review that has taken place by you all here, it's still inconclusive, wouldn't it seem that the referees absolutely should have called for a video replay during the game?

To me, therein lies the failure of the on-ice officiating crew.

JasonN95
I was sitting in section H. The UND player didn't hook him, he laid a cross check into Nick's back. Cross check. Hit from behind. One of those should have been called.

That's exactly how it looks to me on the video.

redice
I have not watched the video. So, I'll withhold opinion on the penalty.

But, if after the level of video review that has taken place by you all here, it's still inconclusive, wouldn't it seem that the referees absolutely should have called for a video replay during the game?

To me, therein lies the failure of the on-ice officiating crew.

The officials cannot use video replay to consider calling a penalty. And the officials would not have had this video anyways; my understanding is the video they can look at for reviewing goals is the birds-eye camera set in the rafters directly above the net (although, in this case, the action might have been in that camera's field of view). Part of what is making things inconclusive for people looking at video here is that it is a wide field shot and the net happens to be partially obscuring the camera's view of what the ND player did.

JasonN95

redice
I have not watched the video. So, I'll withhold opinion on the penalty.

But, if after the level of video review that has taken place by you all here, it's still inconclusive, wouldn't it seem that the referees absolutely should have called for a video replay during the game?

To me, therein lies the failure of the on-ice officiating crew.

The officials cannot use video replay to consider calling a penalty. And the officials would not have had this video anyways; my understanding is the video they can look at for reviewing goals is the birds-eye camera set in the rafters directly above the net (although, in this case, the action might have been in that camera's field of view). Part of what is making things inconclusive for people looking at video here is that it is a wide field shot and the net happens to be partially obscuring the camera's view of what the ND player did.

And that is why it's a penalty. The ND player came from behind and knocked him down. There was not room, because the net is there,to come from the side. Regardless of what you want to call, he got hit from behind and lost the puck. I'm in L and screamed when I saw no call. If you allow that around the goal, all hell will break out.