Ben Scrivens' rank among Cornell goalies

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Where will Ben Scrivens rank as a Cornell goalie?

	Among the best alongside Dryden, Eliot, Hayward, LeNeveu, McKee
	Better than all but that handful of Cornell greats
	Good goalie but no better than good
	Overrated

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Ben Scrivens (and a couple others who underperformed Scrivens) were considered to be stand-ins until the next great goalie came along upon the departure of David McKee. People see him as the culprit in Cornell losses (such as in the 4-2 loss to Colorado College). But Scrivens is also on track to be a four-year starter and by playing four not three years rack up a whole bunch of career records for games, starts, minutes, probably pass Dryden for #2 on the career shutout record, and maintain somewhere around a 2.0 GAA. Other than senior night, he's only been pulled twice, I believe. Already he has a Cornell-record string of 206 minutes unscored-upon. And like Dryden, LeNeveau and McKee (everyone other than Brian Cropper in 1970), he has given up 1 or 2 more goals than we hoped in a key playoff game (e.g. Dryden 4 vs. Denver his senior year). So is Ben Scrivens one of Cornell's most underappreciated players ever, the best of an indifferent lot of goalies 2006-2010 fortunate to be propped up by Cornell's traditionally solid defense, or somewhere in-between? I think he's not getting all the credit he deserves and some of the All-America goalies earlier this decade were the ones who truly benefitted from tight defenses.

My problem is putting LeNeveu & McKee alongside Dryden, Eliot & Hayward. The first two were very good in Cornell's system; the later three were great no matter what. I'd put Scrivens with the first two, if I could. If we were playing the type of defense that we did before, his numbers would be great. Also he improved with time and that could not be said of McKee. His best year was not his last.

If I read it right, your breakout of Cornell's best-of-the-best comprises three goalies out 25+ years versus those who played this decade. Admittedly a small sample size. Just curious who would be considered the most recent of the truly first-tier goalies if not Underhill-Leneveu-McKee-maybe/maybe not Scrivens.

Do we tend to think the players of our undergraduate and just-after years as the best ever (understanding this is not a football discussion)? If you saw Eamon McEneneaney and Mike French play lacrosse in the 1970s, or Joe Nieuwendyk play hockey in the 1980s, you couldn't imagine anyone ever being better.

As for good vs. great goalies, you're right that the system helps determine the goalie's stats.

billhoward
If I read it right, your breakout of Cornell's best-of-the-best comprises three goalies out 25+ years versus those who played this decade. Admittedly a small sample size. Just curious who would be considered the most recent of the truly first-tier goalies if not Underhill-Leneveu-McKee-maybe/maybe not Scrivens.

Admittedly, I'm biased by how well they did after Cornell as well as at Cornell. Ned's system was great defense and offense, that can't be repeated, so Dryden stands alone. Eliot and Hayward did not play in a defensive system, but showed their worth both at CU and beyond. Our recent goalies were very good and benefited from the system. I think they might be as good as the other two, but the competition, both in college and pros, is much better. So they don't stand out as far ahead. McKee had the potential, but never seemed to improve with time. He rode his natural ability as far as it would go.

Do we tend to think the players of our undergraduate and just-after years as the best ever (understanding this is not a football discussion)? If you saw Eamon McEneneaney and Mike French play lacrosse in the 1970s, or Joe Nieuwendyk play hockey in the 1980s, you couldn't imagine anyone ever being better.

You're right, to an extent, for me; but then my undergrad and just-after were 60s and early 70s. They are not likely to be repeated.

Yeah, before any joker jumps in, they'll be repeated in another 50 years, but I won't be here to see it.

Jim Hyla
You're right, to an extent, for me; but then my undergrad and just-after were 60s and early 70s. They are not likely to be repeated. Yeah, before any joker jumps in, they'll be repeated in another 50 years, but I won't be here to see it.

[fixing quote] Not going the Ted Williams route?

billhoward

Jim Hyla
. You're right, to an extent, for me; but then my undergrad and just-after were 60s and early 70s. They are not likely to be repeated. Yeah, before any joker jumps in, they'll be repeated in another 50 years, but I won't be here to see it.

Not going the Ted Williams route?

FYP
If only we could.

I am surprised you omitted Dadswell. He had some of the most memorable performances in the last 30 years, and would make my list ahead of McKee and LeNeveu

I think it's nearly impossible to compare goalies from different eras. Nearly everything has changed between the eras, including style, play, equipment, defenses...

As far as I'm concerned, McKee is perhaps the most overrated goalie in Cornell's history and has no business in the category with the others... Dryden, Hayward, Dadswell, LeNeveu, Pelletier, Duffus, Elliot and I'm sure I'm leaving out some, were more successful after Cornell and displayed greater skill in at least the upper minor leagues. His inconsistent Jr. year and total flop in the pros has proven to me that he was merely the benefactor of good positioning and stellar defense. Frankly I'm sick of the pedestal everyone blindly puts him on.

I think we should be very proud of the way Scrivens has performed. I doubt we'll every see him in the bigs, he might only succeed in the lower to mid-level minors. But has been a joy to watch and has displayed an appreciation for the fans like few others!

Scrivens is an excellent goalie, but he doesn't play up to his full physical potential. He is either too impulsive or too creative.

lynah80
Scrivens is an excellent goalie, but he doesn't play up to his full physical potential. He is either too impulsive or too creative.

To paraphrase an old axiom: "He seems to have long periods of extreme competence interrupted by moments of glaring ineptitude".



O.K., in all fairness I have to revise this.........

After his polysyllabic ESPNU interview between periods of the UNH game all my male friends wondered if he was pre-med,
& all the 20-ish girls wanted to marry him. Now that's a student-athlete.

Kinda reminds me of Eric Doofydorph from SU. Not.

From this weeks CBR game notes:

SAVING THE DAY
Ask those in college hockey circles about Cornell’s goaltender, and they’ll inevitably make a comment about the goaltender being good, but a product of the Big Red’s defensive system in front of them. At the end of the day, though, the goaltender’s job is to stop the puck, no matter what kind of defense is in front of him. And that’s where Ben Scrivens finds himself now, not quite midway through his senior season. The Spruce Grove, Alberta, native, stands in second place all-time among the legendary netminders of Cornell history in career saves, just 130 behind Doug Dadswell’s career total of 2,462. For his career, Scrivens has averaged 24.1 saves per game, meaning he is on pace to break Dadswell’s mark on Jan. 30 at Lynah Rink against Clarkson. Scrivens also has the second and third highest single-season save totals in Cornell history in each of the past two seasons.

THE WINNER
Ben Scrivens is not only nearing the top of the Cornell career saves list, but he is also approaching the top of several other categories. Scrivens is now third in school history in career wins with 51, 25 behind Ken Dryden’s 76 and 14 behind David McKee’s 65. He is also second in career ties with 10, three behind McKee, and fourth in both goals-against average (1.96) and save percentage (.928). He also has 13 career shutouts, tying him with Dryden for second-most in school history.

[www.cornellbigred.com]

Those have been included in the game notes for a couple of months at least, with the numbers updated regularly.

lynah80
The Spruce Grove, Alberta, native, stands in second place all-time among the legendary netminders of Cornell history in career saves, just 130 behind Doug Dadswell’s career total of 2,462. For his career, Scrivens has averaged 24.1 saves per game, meaning he is on pace to break Dadswell’s mark on Jan. 30 at Lynah Rink against Clarkson. Scrivens also has the second and third highest single-season save totals in Cornell history in each of the past two seasons.

Well, I hope somebody fixes this before the next game. The career saves mark is currently held by Jason Elliott, not Dadswell.

Give My Regards

lynah80
The Spruce Grove, Alberta, native, stands in second place all-time among the legendary netminders of Cornell history in career saves, just 130 behind Doug Dadswell’s career total of 2,462. For his career, Scrivens has averaged 24.1 saves per game, meaning he is on pace to break Dadswell’s mark on Jan. 30 at Lynah Rink against Clarkson. Scrivens also has the second and third highest single-season save totals in Cornell history in each of the past two seasons.

Well, I hope somebody fixes this before the next game. The career saves mark is currently held by Jason Elliott, not Dadswell.

Then email Kevin Zeise kjz3@cornell.edu in the Athletic Communications office. He is responsible for hockey.

Give My Regards
The career saves mark is currently held by Jason Elliott, not Dadswell.

Yepper.

Dadswell was hampered by only playing 2 seasons.

John Detwiler gets the PTSD award, though: 44.6 shots per 60 minutes, career. Leneveu faced just 21.0. Scrivens, coming into this year, 27.3.

agree with Dadswell on the short list - amazing eliot/hayward overlapped. Current System creates goalie 'stars' - look at shots/scoring chance stats

liner ink
agree with Dadswell on the short list - amazing eliot/hayward overlapped. Current System creates goalie 'stars' - look at shots/scoring chance stats

Eliot may not have gotten a chance if Hayward hadn't gotten mono his soph year.

liner ink
agree with Dadswell on the short list - amazing eliot/hayward overlapped. Current System creates goalie 'stars' - look at shots/scoring chance stats

To the extent that, say, the Edmonton System made Glenn Anderson a Hall of Famer. Which is to say... "So what? I'll take the Hall of Fame."

Trotsky
John Detwiler gets the PTSD award, though: 44.6 shots per 60 minutes, career.

Lightweight.

Dan DiLeo, in his two appearances totaling 4:36 of playing time, faced five shots. That works out to a mind-boggling 65.2 shots per 60 minutes. I wonder why our defense slacked off in front of him so much.