Own Horn
Posted by Beeeej
Own Horn
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 12, 2002 11:40AM
[today.14850.com]
(Note that last link. )
Beeeej
(Note that last link. )
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: CUlater '89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: February 12, 2002 11:54AM
As a graduate English major, shouldn't you know that Cornell is an "it" and not a "they"?
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: ugarte (63.94.240.---)
Date: February 12, 2002 12:15PM
The team goes to the tournament, not the school. The team is a group of players, and those players are a "they".
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.dial.spiritone.com)
Date: February 12, 2002 02:20PM
Cornell is an it. The Big Red are a they.
"Cornell goes for its ninth straight win..."
"The Big Red go for their ninth straight win..."
"Cornell goes for its ninth straight win..."
"The Big Red go for their ninth straight win..."
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: CUlater '89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: February 12, 2002 02:22PM
"Team" is also singular, although it is composed of multiple players.
In fact, "group" is also singular. And note that earlier in the article he used "Big Red" correctly as singular.
In fact, "group" is also singular. And note that earlier in the article he used "Big Red" correctly as singular.
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 12, 2002 02:46PM
Actually, CUlater is correct based on one thing and one thing only: I started the piece in the singular, and should have remained consistent even if I'd been wrong. Instead I switched to the plural without using any plural nouns like "the icers" or "those guys."
It's the damn editor's fault. ;-{)}
Beeeej
It's the damn editor's fault. ;-{)}
Beeeej
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: CUlater '89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: February 12, 2002 02:56PM
Consistent use is, of course, important. But your initial approach to use singular is correct, in my experience. SunStyle (i.e. the rules and regs of The Cornell Daily Sun) considers "Red" and "Big Red" to be singular and I note the the CU athletics site uses it in the singular as well (although perhaps not in every case). Interestingly, the CU athletics site uses "Crimson" as plural.
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Cornellian (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 12, 2002 03:01PM
Big Red is singular, Cornell is singular, group is singular, team is singular. The noun's ability to be broken down into small components (i.e. the team is made up of players) has no bearing whatsoever on subject-verb agreement. A team is still a single unit. As for Big Red, last I checked their aren't multiple Big Reds running around. Big Green and Crimson are also singular where as Quakers (Penn) are obviously plural.
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: rhovorka (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: February 12, 2002 03:56PM
Since we're talking about language here, I grabbed this from the uscho recap of the Clarkson-RPI game. I'll give anyone a buck if you can tell me what he's saying:
None of it happens if it all happens?
"It's really tough to score off a faceoff," said Cavosie. "It took everything, I got a pick and none of it happens if it all happens. I just happened to be the one pulling the trigger."
None of it happens if it all happens?
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Robb (---.157.117.221.dial1.dallas1.level3.net)
Date: February 12, 2002 08:31PM
It also depends which side of the Atlantic you're on. Americans nearly always refer to companies in singular form ("Bell Atlantic is going to lay off 10,000 workers today", whereas Brits consistently say "British Telecom are kicking Bell Atlantic's butt." This holds true with sports teams as well, and they don't even have plural-named sports teams - "Arsenal are running up a tremendous record in the Premiership."
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: February 12, 2002 09:16PM
Robb's exactly right. I must have read 5,000 pages of Churchill in the past year and I still stumbled over that plural verb every time.
Plurals
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 12, 2002 11:57PM
What they said. I first got exposed to the collective plural when I lived in Cambridge (the real one) for six months in 1994, and then came back and drove all my Californian friends crazy with it.
Re: Plurals
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 13, 2002 09:56AM
You drove your friends crazy with things you'd picked up in a foreign country, John? I find that hard to believe.
Beeeej
Beeeej
Re: Plurals
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 13, 2002 10:01AM
I'm sure you'll all be relieved to learn I decided to take a postdoc at Penn State rather than in Potsdam, Germany.
Re: Plurals
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 13, 2002 10:08AM
Congratulations, John! I guess that means your season ticket will get more consistent use next year. :-{)}
Beeeej
Beeeej
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.metro1.com)
Date: February 13, 2002 01:58PM
Everytime I read this thread's title, I think of Beeeej holding a placard:
Own horn. Will blow for food.
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 13, 2002 02:02PM
Greg, didn't we say we'd never speak of that again? I was young, I needed the money.
Beeeej
Beeeej
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.metro1.com)
Date: February 13, 2002 03:48PM
> The noun's ability to be broken down into small components (i.e. the team is made up of players) has no bearing whatsoever on subject-verb agreement
So "the French" is singular?
I haven't whipped out my Strunk and White, but I would swear that common usage (1) distinguishes between singular and plural collective nouns and (2) leaves it sufficiently ambiguous that there are cases that can go either way.
FWIW, I would classify team names as plural nouns, whether or not they follow the convention of ending in an "s." So, just as I wouldn't say "the Catamounts is," I wouldn't say "the Big Red is."
So "the French" is singular?
I haven't whipped out my Strunk and White, but I would swear that common usage (1) distinguishes between singular and plural collective nouns and (2) leaves it sufficiently ambiguous that there are cases that can go either way.
FWIW, I would classify team names as plural nouns, whether or not they follow the convention of ending in an "s." So, just as I wouldn't say "the Catamounts is," I wouldn't say "the Big Red is."
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 13, 2002 04:25PM
Would you say "The Red Sox is"?
Re: Own Horn
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.metro1.com)
Date: February 13, 2002 04:52PM
I would say "the Red Sox suck."
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