Cornell-RPI Postgame (Game 2) 3/14/09

I haven't read the post-game comments in the game thread, because the point of a post-game thread is so that you don't have to sift through all the duplicate "BARLOW!!!" posts. So I may be duplicative here.

But tonight's game pretty much vindicated Schafer's comments on last night's officiating. If you call penalties the way they've been called all season, RPI will spend at least twice as much time in the box as Cornell, and play will proceed the way it's supposed to. RPI tried to play last night's game and it didn't work out too well for them.

I was a little surprised Appert pulled York - he didn't play badly, he just got shelled and couldn't quite handle all of it. I didn't think any of the three goals he let in were so egregious as to warrant bringing in Lange.

I really wish I could stay for tomorrow night's game, but I have a trial Monday morning. I'll be following it closely, to be sure.

Beeeej
I haven't read the post-game comments in the game thread, because the point of a post-game thread is so that you don't have to sift through all the duplicate "BARLOW!!!" posts. So I may be duplicative here.

But tonight's game pretty much vindicated Schafer's comments on last night's officiating. If you call penalties the way they've been called all season, RPI will spend at least twice as much time in the box as Cornell, and play will proceed the way it's supposed to. RPI tried to play last night's game and it didn't work out too well for them.

I was a little surprised Appert pulled York - he didn't play badly, he just got shelled and couldn't quite handle all of it. I didn't think any of the three goals he let in were so egregious as to warrant bringing in Lange.

I really wish I could stay for tomorrow night's game, but I have a trial Monday morning. I'll be following it closely, to be sure.

York made a number of fine saves in this one; it was just a matter of us getting too many good chances to score. Maybe Appert was thinking along the lines of "This game's in the bag and we'll need York back in net tomorrow night, so let's give him a rest," and that would be quite logical.

40/43 = 93%, a pretty good save rate.

I just posted a stream of consciousness blog regarding Schafer. Curious to hear feedback about it. It's in line with Beeeej's opening statement.

[blog.collegehockeynews.com]

imafrshmn
York made a number of fine saves in this one; it was just a matter of us getting too many good chances to score. Maybe Appert was thinking along the lines of "This game's in the bag and we'll need York back in net tomorrow night, so let's give him a rest," and that would be quite logical.

I agree.

He averages 27 saves per game. His other numbers: 2.95, 0.905.

He's an NHL draftee but, he is still only a freshman.

I was at the game tonight and said what you said in the third paragraph, almost verbatim, to the people I was sitting with after we heard about the suspension on the pre-game show. I think your comments are correct.

adamw
I just posted a stream of consciousness blog regarding Schafer. Curious to hear feedback about it. It's in line with Beeeej's opening statement.

[blog.collegehockeynews.com]

Well said all around, Adam. I also remarked to a few people early in tonight's game that Schafer had to know he could be confident in his team with Casey Jones behind the bench, so he knew exactly what he was getting into when he opened up last night.

"It's the playoffs, let 'em play" only encourages goonery from the bottom-dwelling teams that that have nothing to lose by trying it, and risks the injuries that officiating is supposed to prevent.

We sit in H, behind York in the second. Understandably, he looked exhausted before the middle of the period. He had a harder and harder time getting back to his feet and you could just tell he was tired. I agree that he was probably pulled to rest for tomorrow, because his performance was great.

Beeeej
"... goonery from the bottom-dwelling teams that that have nothing to lose by trying it, and risks the injuries that officiating is supposed to prevent.

That's the way RPI approaches every game. Not trying to be funny here.

Echoing a comment in the game thread, since when is a ref supposed to be retrieving a goalie's lost stick for him during play? Is that even actually allowed? I was appalled.

Beeeej
Echoing a comment in the game thread, since when is a ref supposed to be retrieving a goalie's lost stick for him during play? Is that even actually allowed? I was appalled.

I'd like to hear an explanation of that one. I've never seen anything like it.

Injuries will have an impact on tomorrows game. Patrick Kennedy took a viscious hit to the head early in the 3rd and did not return and Blake Gallagher looked like he badly sprained or broke his ankle and went straight to the locker room midway through the 3rd.

Cop at Lynah
Injuries will have an impact on tomorrows game. Patrick Kennedy took a viscious hit to the head early in the 3rd and did not return and Blake Gallagher looked like he badly sprained or broke his ankle and went straight to the locker room midway through the 3rd.

Gallagher hurt the leg earlier in the game, but I didn't see what happened to send him off the ice, did you catch it?

Jim Hyla

Cop at Lynah
Injuries will have an impact on tomorrows game. Patrick Kennedy took a viscious hit to the head early in the 3rd and did not return and Blake Gallagher looked like he badly sprained or broke his ankle and went straight to the locker room midway through the 3rd.

Gallagher hurt the leg earlier in the game, but I didn't see what happened to send him off the ice, did you catch it?

He got hauled down badly on a face-off.

Beeeej

Jim Hyla

Cop at Lynah
Injuries will have an impact on tomorrows game. Patrick Kennedy took a viscious hit to the head early in the 3rd and did not return and Blake Gallagher looked like he badly sprained or broke his ankle and went straight to the locker room midway through the 3rd.

Gallagher hurt the leg earlier in the game, but I didn't see what happened to send him off the ice, did you catch it?

He got hauled down badly on a face-off.

If Gallagher is out that could be huge. He's a real "glue" guy.

Agreed he was twisted and thrown to ice by the RPI face-off guy across from him. Tangled up his stick and got it high over head and shoulders and tying him up and spinning him around and down to ice; with no attempt to play the puck from where I sat.

Pat Kennedy was hit just below my seat (section N) on boards with a vicious elbow to the head, he went down with RPI player on top still pushing down and hitting him from on top. He was slow and very wobbly getting up and trying to get to bench. Did not return to game after that ... Hope that is just precautionary!

RPI was frustrated and playing the man with no attempt to play the puck most of the third period (maybe half or more of their players)

LGR !! come out and play another complete game on Sunday - Play hockey and ignore RPI's methods and style - they want us to respond and play their way!

Cornell had some real good hits and some were rough but I did not see any that did not involve the man with the puck or had just released the puck and they were in general legal and we got penalized when they were not - there was nothing called on the one where Pat Kennedy got slammed. Overall the refs called a tight game -

Murphy picking up the goalie stick and handing it to Lange - that's a new one - I've never seen in 36 years of playing and a number of years officiating. Interesting if league comments on that - I doubt it - probably all behind closed doors (that is wisest).

Seems to violate the principal that officials are neutral parties.

profudge
Murphy picking up the goalie stick and handing it to Lange - that's a new one - I've never seen in 36 years of playing and a number of years officiating. Interesting if league comments on that - I doubt it - probably all behind closed doors (that is wisest).

Seems to violate the principal that officials are neutral parties.

Well, I just punished myself by reading the entire rulebook. It doesn't explicitly prohibit the officials from returning sticks to players, but that doesn't surprise me - it's possible the rules committee never even contemplated that an official would do such a thing. It does say the following things:

SECTION 4. a. A player without a stick may participate in the game. A player whose stick is broken may participate in the game provided the player drops the broken stick.
PENALTY—Minor.
Note: A broken stick is one that, in the opinion of the official, is unfit for normal play. A stick with a chipped or cracked blade shall not be considered broken, provided the blade is entirely covered with tape and there are not any projecting points. Sticks should be kept low at all times.
b. A goalkeeper may continue to play with a broken stick until a stoppage of play or until the goalkeeper legally has been provided with a stick.
c. A player whose stick is broken may not receive a stick thrown onto the ice from any part of the rink but must obtain a stick at the players’ bench or be handed one by a teammate not serving a penalty. A goalkeeper whose stick is broken may not receive a stick thrown onto the ice surface from any part of the rink but may receive a stick from a teammate without proceeding to the players’ bench.

That's not very helpful, I know, but it's what's in there. Furthermore, although I have the same understanding as profudge as far as the officials' duty to maintain neutrality to a fault whenever possible, there's nothing in the rulebook that explicitly says so.

Apropos of nothing, I discovered in my reading a very interesting, obviously under-enforced rule:

c. A player, coach or non-playing person shall not bang the boards with a stick or other instrument.
PENALTY—Minor or bench minor. If a player persists in such action, a misconduct shall be assessed.

Yet another thing RPI was doing tonight.

Anyone know what Cornell's record is for most shots taken in a game? I'm sure it's something absurdly high from back in the 60's or 70's. Tonight's 56 has to be the most in a long while. Not to mentioning the 47 shot differential.

KeithK
Anyone know what Cornell's record is for most shots taken in a game? I'm sure it's something absurdly high from back in the 60's or 70's. Tonight's 56 has to be the most in a long while. Not to mentioning the 47 shot differential.

I looked in this year's media guide, and no record is listed. I suspect someone keeps track of it somewhere, but given the wildly varying standards for what constitutes a shot on goal from rink to rink (and for the home team vs. the visiting team), it wouldn't surprise me if nobody really cares.

ETA: And by the way, does anybody besides me think it's odd that the media guide lists former NHL players from Cornell but not "current" ones, not even those who were on an active roster at the end of last year?

Beeeej

KeithK
Anyone know what Cornell's record is for most shots taken in a game? I'm sure it's something absurdly high from back in the 60's or 70's. Tonight's 56 has to be the most in a long while. Not to mentioning the 47 shot differential.

I looked in this year's media guide, and no record is listed. I suspect someone keeps track of it somewhere, but given the wildly varying standards for what constitutes a shot on goal from rink to rink (and for the home team vs. the visiting team), it wouldn't surprise me if nobody really cares.

From "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", compiled many years ago by some guy whose name escapes me at the moment:

Most saves by opposing team's goalie, one game
72, vs. Colgate at Hamilton (Starr Rink), 1/26/71 (Geoff McMullen 72, Cornell won 8-2)

So it's at least 80.

Very likely, this game tied the record for fewest shots allowed in a game. At least, that was the record in "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", and I can't recall a game in which the record was broken since that book was published.

KeithK
Anyone know what Cornell's record is for most shots taken in a game? I'm sure it's something absurdly high from back in the 60's or 70's. Tonight's 56 has to be the most in a long while. Not to mentioning the 47 shot differential.

As a first pass, the most shots faced by any opposing goalie I can find are here:

74 1958 Gill, Lehigh (the Cornell first game at Lynah, 16 goals allowed)
70 1968 Horton, Guelph (4 goals allowed)
70 1965 Bloom, Hamilton (19)

For recent history, on 2/19/2000, Prekaski of RPI stopped 58 of Cornell 61 shots.

February 2004: Vermont held to 9 SOG in 1-0 win

October 2004: Army held to 9 SOG in 7-1 win

ACM
Very likely, this game tied the record for fewest shots allowed in a game. At least, that was the record in "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", and I can't recall a game in which the record was broken since that book was published.

On 10/29/04, McKee and Davenport combined to stop 7 of 8 shots by Army.

Thanks Arthur. I probably could have asked you by name instead of "anyone".

The last time we broke 50 was in an exhibition against York. Before that, both QF games against Clarkson in '06 that went to 2OT (54 and 59). Hasn't happened in a non-overtime game that counted in at least the last six seasons.

We did allow only nine shots at Vermont on 2/7/2004.

(Source: www.collegehockeystats.net)

Trotsky

ACM
Very likely, this game tied the record for fewest shots allowed in a game. At least, that was the record in "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", and I can't recall a game in which the record was broken since that book was published.

On 10/29/04, McKee and Davenport combined to stop 7 of 8 shots by Army.

Bah... How'd I miss that!

Trotsky

ACM
Very likely, this game tied the record for fewest shots allowed in a game. At least, that was the record in "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", and I can't recall a game in which the record was broken since that book was published.

On 10/29/04, McKee and Davenport combined to stop 7 of 8 shots by Army.

Interesting that College Hockey Stats has it as 9.

Beeeej
]c. A player, coach or non-playing person shall not bang the boards with a stick or other instrument.
PENALTY—Minor or bench minor. If a player persists in such action, a misconduct shall be assessed.

So interesting to learn that a few weeks ago when Air Force played at RIT (Friday night) not only should Kirby not been let out of the box (he still had another minor to serve after the refs forgot to put another AFA player in the box) but maybe AFA should have been penalized for everyone banging on the boards to get him out.

Trotsky

ACM
Very likely, this game tied the record for fewest shots allowed in a game. At least, that was the record in "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", and I can't recall a game in which the record was broken since that book was published.

On 10/29/04, McKee and Davenport combined to stop 7 of 8 shots by Army.

Did RPI have a legit SOG in the 3rd period, meaning one that they themselves actually took? I see in the box score that they had 1, but I recall hearing the RPI announcer say that Scrivens had to stop an errant pass by one of our guys that was supposed to go behind the net, but wound up on-goal. Is it possible that that was the 1 save he had for the period?

lynah80

Beeeej
"... goonery from the bottom-dwelling teams that that have nothing to lose by trying it, and risks the injuries that officiating is supposed to prevent.

That's the way RPI approaches every game. Not trying to be funny here.

PIM/game

RPI - 19.6, #4 in the nation
Cornell - 13.3

Beeeej

Jim Hyla

Cop at Lynah
Injuries will have an impact on tomorrows game. Patrick Kennedy took a viscious hit to the head early in the 3rd and did not return and Blake Gallagher looked like he badly sprained or broke his ankle and went straight to the locker room midway through the 3rd.

Gallagher hurt the leg earlier in the game, but I didn't see what happened to send him off the ice, did you catch it?

He got hauled down badly on a face-off.

It was shortly after the double minor on Mugford, in the middle of the 3rd period. He was down on the ice for a short time after the face off. Then, he skated off on his own, without a stoppage of play. He was really hobbling.

From Time Wilkins of the Times Union:

Who is running the ECAC?

[blogs.timesunion.com]

lynah80
Who is running the ECAC?

This reads like a post from USCHO RPI fans, not exactly the best journalism. Though, perhaps there is a point to be made that Coach Schafer does have some weight (no pun) to throw around the ECAC.

adamw
I just posted a stream of consciousness blog regarding Schafer. Curious to hear feedback about it. It's in line with Beeeej's opening statement.

[blog.collegehockeynews.com]

Recalling that Mike Schafer said that he was going to get suspended moments before his January 2004 remarks about uncalled hits from behind, I asked Brandon Thomas about whether Schafer tried to get suspended. Brandon responded that he believed that Schafer's comments were calculated and that he seemed willing to get suspended in order to get his message across.

Edit: I forgot to give you feedback. I agree with everything you wrote.

KeithK
Anyone know what Cornell's record is for most shots taken in a game? I'm sure it's something absurdly high from back in the 60's or 70's. Tonight's 56 has to be the most in a long while. Not to mentioning the 47 shot differential.

With the exception of international hockey games between an established power and a hockey program days away from relegation, I cannot recall ever seeing a greater than 6-to-1 shots-on-goal ratio.

lynah80

lynah80

Beeeej
"... goonery from the bottom-dwelling teams that that have nothing to lose by trying it, and risks the injuries that officiating is supposed to prevent.

That's the way RPI approaches every game. Not trying to be funny here.

PIM/game

RPI - 19.6, #4 in the nation
Cornell - 13.3

From section 7 at Houston I'd say a lot of their penalty minutes are due to poor decisions and lack of ability. I don't consider the Appert teams anywhere near as much the goon squads as those of the Fridge. Burgdoerfer excluded - but he doesn't even live up to the mentality and dirtiness of many of the RIP alums.

And I certainly am not talking about individual games just the season as a whole. These guys just play dumb.

Beware the Ides of March!

Killer
Did RPI have a legit SOG in the 3rd period, meaning one that they themselves actually took? I see in the box score that they had 1, but I recall hearing the RPI announcer say that Scrivens had to stop an errant pass by one of our guys that was supposed to go behind the net, but wound up on-goal. Is it possible that that was the 1 save he had for the period?

I believe something like that is only supposed to count as a SOG if it goes in. Same thing with a clear off the boards that ends up on net.

Beeeej
Well, I just punished myself by reading the entire rulebook. It doesn't explicitly prohibit the officials from returning sticks to players, but that doesn't surprise me - it's possible the rules committee never even contemplated that an official would do such a thing.

And while I have not read the rulebook I'd be willing to bet it also doesn't say anything explicitly about the refs not being allowed to play with yo-yos during play or anything prohibiting them form pairing up and ballroom-dancing to the music the band plays during stoppages. It probably also doesn't prevent them from officiating while on unicycles or while wearing Groucho Marx glasses. I've never seen any of those things done, though, just like, until last night, I had never seen a ref retrieve a goalie's stick for him during play.

jtwcornell91

Killer
Did RPI have a legit SOG in the 3rd period, meaning one that they themselves actually took? I see in the box score that they had 1, but I recall hearing the RPI announcer say that Scrivens had to stop an errant pass by one of our guys that was supposed to go behind the net, but wound up on-goal. Is it possible that that was the 1 save he had for the period?

I believe something like that is only supposed to count as a SOG if it goes in. Same thing with a clear off the boards that ends up on net.

They actually did have a legitimate shot on goal (though it came fairly harmlessly from outside the blue line). M. Kennedy's errant pass back to Scrivens didn't count as the SOG.

Beeeej

Trotsky

ACM
Very likely, this game tied the record for fewest shots allowed in a game. At least, that was the record in "The Cornell Hockey Record Book", and I can't recall a game in which the record was broken since that book was published.

On 10/29/04, McKee and Davenport combined to stop 7 of 8 shots by Army.

Interesting that College Hockey Stats has it as 9.

The copy of the box score that I have also shows Army with 9 shots, as do the shot charts (4/2/3 by period).

From the NCAA Ice Hockey Statisticians' Manual:

SECTION 4—SHOTS
Article 1. A shot is an attempt that is taken with the intent of scoring and is directed toward the goal. Possible outcomes of a shot are that it is blocked by the defense, is not on target or is on target and qualifies as a shot on goal.
Article 2. A shot on goal is a shot that is on target. Results of a shot on goal must be either a save by the goaltender or a goal by the offensive team. A shot that hits the post or crossbar and does not cross the goal line is not a shot on goal. If a skater blocks a shot headed toward an empty net, it is recorded as a blocked shot and thus not a shot on goal. Only a goaltender can record a save.

SECTION 6—GOALTENDING
Article 4. A save for a goaltender and a shot on goal for a player or team shall be credited only when the goaltender has prevented the puck from entering the net, and must be recorded on each occasion that the goaltender prevents a goal. If a member of the goaltender’s own team directed the puck at the goal, then a shot on goal shall be recorded for the last opposing player to have touched the puck. A team’s shots on goal always must equal the sum of the team’s goals and the opposing goaltender’s saves.