Back-up goalies

Well now that we officially have to worry about this...

Has anyone ever seen either Marr or Chabot play (i.e. Red-White, York, practice)? I know absolutely nothing about them, but would have to assume that they are at least relatively competent (they have made a very good D-1 roster after all). As long as the D plays well, all we really need is more or less "average" goaltending to win these games (I'll be happy to take 3 of 4).

I think you make a very good point Graham - Marr and Chabot are goalies that were recruited for a D1 team. Everybody is acting like we're gonna be playing four games with an empty net or something. These guys are on the same team as LeNeveu, get the same coaching, and go to the same practices as he does. They wouldn't be on the team if they didn't know what they were doing. That said, I have full faith that the team can run with the big boys and that they will be quite serious competition for Maine at the end of the month.

[Q]These guys are on the same team as LeNeveu, get the same coaching, and go to the same practices as he does. They wouldn't be on the team if they didn't know what they were doing.[/Q]
And will play behind the same outstanding defense, who I'm sure will do anything possible to help out the goaltender.

Yeah, with the exception of OSU, BU, and Harvard, we haven't had more than 21 shots on goals against us. Averaging out it's probly been less than 20. Combine that with goalies that, while not having a lot of experience, are at least average, I don't see more than 3 goals against us.

But then, OSU, BU, and Harvard are the best teams we've played. Maine is probably better than OSU, BU, and Harvard.

Maine is probably going to put a ton of shots on the untested goalie. He's definitely going to give up a few.

Here's one game where we could really use that 3-0 first period lead!!!

Marr is a junior and Chebot a freshman. Where was Marr last year? Practice squad or a walk-on? And Chebot, did he come from some ridiculous junior league or just a feeder league.

I saw them play red-white. They both looked pretty good considering the circumstances of the game. However, they did get get their lunch money stolen during the shoot-out portion of the game. This was probably due to them having to alternate shots and never getting into a routine. But, as stressed before, if the D continues to block as many shots as it has, grandma could play goal.

Marr was on the Northeastern roster for a semester or so, and then went back to Juniors. He's probably had to sit out for a bit to regain eligibility after the transfer to Cornell.

Marr came as a transfer from Northeastern; I believe he had to sit out half the year.

It'll be tougher to block shots and really play our defensive game. I think Maine is a little faster than either Harvard, BU, OSU....and, like I said at some point, the game will probably be like playing UHN (I seem to remember them having pretty solid team speed). I envision Maine getting a few more 2 on 1 breaks than Cornell's accustomed to. This is especially dangerous considering we don't have a goalie who is as skilled in terms of positioning as David. 2 on 1's with him are essentially 2 on 2s with a goalie as well, if that makes any sense. He really limits how much of the net you can actually shoot at, and you're often forced to take a shot at a place you don't really want to, and he ends up not even having to make a spectacular save.

That said, our defense really does help him cut down on those angles, and so I'm sure the team is going to do just the same if not more for whoever is in net. My huge concern is that the team will (subconsciously or otherwise) play a more defensive minded game (kind of like 2 years ago) where they held the opposition to something like 1.5 goals a game, but couldn't generate any offense because they were spending too much time trying to block shots and making sure the goalie was sitting tight back there. Starting last year, and even more this year, the defense and offense I feel have trusted the goalie a lot more (probably bc the goaltending has been stellar too) and have been more willing to take some risks that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

I agree Chabot and Marr are probably both decent goalies. (Any guesses who will start?) The problem is their lack of experience -- LeNeveu has played every minute. (In a way it's too bad Vermont didn't get a goal and spoil the shutout so Schafer could have pulled LeNeveu in that game.) It will be very, very tough for them goalie to debut against Maine.

[Q] I agree Chabot and Marr are probably both decent goalies. [/Q]

Very strong stand.

They are Div. I goalies, so that says something, and Chabot was apparently recruited very heavily. Still, I have no comment on their actual ability since I don't get to see them practice and there is no statistical support for or against either of them. Estero should test their mettle.

Well, they'll likely be in the game quickly. I understand that Maine likes to come out flying, with the big cross-ice passes. The key, I think, is for this team to do what it always does, and keep the shots against on the perimeter and block the ones from the slot and points (being careful not to deflect SOGs). If our forwards are responsible defensively, as they usually are, the goalies should be OK (I hope).

Providing no previous playing time to Todd Marr or Louis Chabot gives Cornell one noteworthy advantage heading into the Everblades College Classic: Maine, Ohio State, and U Mass have no scouting report on either goaltender, so our opponents will not know which corners to try to pick. Think of all the times a rookie goaltender has a very successful NHL debut but recedes to mediocrity after teams discover what his weaknesses are. A similar phenomenon occurs routinely with rookie baseball pitchers.

Yes, Marr and Chabot lack NCAA experience. But, that inexperience carries an advantage for Cornell in addition to the disadvantages discussed in prior postings.

On November 16, 2001, Dov Grumet-Morris made his NCAA debut in the Cornell/Harvard game in Allston. It would be interesting to hear from players and coaches from both teams whether they thought Grumet-Morris's lack of previous experience worked to Harvard's or Cornell's advantage (or both).

[www.collegehockeystats.com]

Craig Buckser '94 wrote:

Think of all the times a rookie goaltender has a very successful NHL debut but recedes to mediocrity after teams discover what his weaknesses are. A similar phenomenon occurs routinely with rookie baseball pitchers.

Backup Quarterbacks too. Earlier this year, when McNabb got hurt for the Eagles, everyone assumed their season was effectively over. Yet the next week, Detmer stepped in and completed 18 of 26 passes, throwing for 227 yards and 2 TDs against the 49's in a 38-13 rout before the 49's dislocated his elbow in the 3rd quarter. Part of the reason for Detmer's success was the fact that he was an utter enigma; in spite of 6 seasons in the NFL, the niners couldn't even find any game film of him to watch. The 3rd string QB, AJ Feeley, effectively had the same advantage the following week against the Rams. (Although, to be fair, the win against the Rams resulted from Philly's ability to completely shutdown the Rams rather than the Rams inability to scout and contain Feeley.)

For other examples, look what Frank Reich did for the Bills in that famous AFC championship game (1990/91?) against Warren Moon and the Oilers. Jim Kelly left the game with an injury and Reich came in and engineered the greatest single comeback in NFL history.

That was in the season of their last of four consecutive Super Bowl appearances, 1993.

A) It was Jan. 3, 1993, the third of the Bills' four consecutive SuperBowl seasons.

B) Frank Reich started the game in place of an already-injured Jim Kelly - injured in the final game of the regular season, against... the Oilers.

Reich also already held the record for the greatest comeback in college football history, for Maryland - down 31-0 to Miami, he replaced starting QB Stan Gelbaugh and scored four touchdowns, three passing and one running, on the way to a 42-40 win.

I'll never forget that during halftime in the Bills-Oilers wildcard game, when the Bills were down 32-3, Boomer Esiason mentioned that great Terp comeback (Boomer and Reich had been roommates at the time of the comeback) and said, "If anybody can do it, it's Frank." That's the only reason I kept the TV on past halftime - and I almost turned it off a few minutes later when the Oilers scored a field goal to make it 35-3. Glad I didn't.

Beeeej

Later, the Bills lost the Super Bowl. Again. )

I also saw Brian play many times and although he was one of the most fluid skaters I've ever seen at Cornell -- long, smooth strides -- he certainly was no Nethery or Nieuwendyke.

And, to his credit as a coach, Brian did actually get Manderville by his sophomore year to actually go behind the goal line in his defensive zone! He didn't usually check anyone, but at least he went in deep. The strange thing is that Manderville ended up in the NHL as a good defensive player.

Josh, if you're suggesting that it's possible Chabot or Marr will perform spectacularly in their appearances in place of LeNeveu only to have Cornell fail in the playoffs at the highest level of competition, I would suggest that that's not a very good attitude to have.

If you're merely enjoying yourself at the expense of Bills fans, I would suggest you move on to something more challenging, constructive, and timely, like needling Republicans about the Dewey vs. Truman 1948 presidential election. Or, y'know, kicking cats.

Beeeej

Jeffrey "Beeeej" Anbinder '94 wrote:

If you're merely enjoying yourself at the expense of Bills fans, I would suggest you move on to something more challenging, constructive, and timely, like needling Republicans about the Dewey vs. Truman 1948 presidential election. Or, y'know, kicking cats.

Yeah, it was this one. )

(I don't see how kicking cats is constructive, but hey, if that's what you like to do with your free time, it's not my business. )

Besides, even if Chabot or Marr can't handle it (which I doubt will happen), we still have the focused, offensive team that we always have just with a different guy in net. If they really focus and try to keep the puck away from the net, there's a chance our goalie won't have to save too much. Just got to wait and see....I mean we're still CORNELL right ?

We must remember that Maine will also be missing some players. Their starting goalie and one of their star forwards are playing for the USA junior team.
Their starting Goalie (Howard) will probably be replaced by Doyle, who played 7 games in NCAA (this year). He went 4-0-2 with a SV% of 0.938 and a 1.54 GAA. So he has some experience, but is not their favored goalie right now.
They will also lose forward Greg Moore who is 9th on the team in points (14).
So maybe the loss from both teams will equalize.

Beeej said:[Q]like needling Republicans about the Dewey vs. Truman 1948 presidential election. [/Q] I think Trent Lott has already said enough about that election.

I'm afraid I'm more pessimistic about the goalie situation than you guys are. I think Schafer will go with Chabot. Marr is a very marginal Division One player, who was the third string goalie for Northeastern and in the process of transferring to Wesleyan when we recruited him. Chabot looks like the real thing, but his will be his first Divsion one game. Cornell has a very deep team this year except at goal, tho with experience Chabot will probably be good.

Even if we lose to Maine, it's not the end of the world. In fact, it might have a hidden benefit. Ian McCaw, the AD at UMass, is the chair of the NCAA selection committee. So if we played UMass in the second game (win or lose in the first, I suppose) and kick the crap out of them, it might help score some 'beauty contest points.'

I'm certain that Mr. McCaw will be watching the Maine- Cornell game anyway. And what better way to get "beauty points" than to win the whole tournament impressively? I don't think that we should be looking to find solice in a loss to Maine.

I've mentioned it before, we are likely to win the Maine game. This year, Cornell has performed better in all team categories while playing more difficult teams.

All naysayers beware! I will be grilling up some Black Bear steaks in hot Red sauce on December 28th.

Big Ben '03 wrote:

Marr and Chabot are goalies that were recruited for a D1 team.

So was [fill in favorite unsuccessful college goalie here]. And remember Elliott and Underhill also had some disastrous games early in their careers.

John T. Whelan '91 wrote:

So was [fill in favorite unsuccessful college goalie here]...

Weder?

Hopefully Todd Marr and Louis Chabot can make NCAA debuts as successfully as Jason Elliott and Matt Underhill's debuts. On Nov. 12, 1994, Elliott stopped 37 of 39 shots in a 3-2 victory over Vermont at Lynah. In the same building four years later, Underhill stopped all six Vermont shots he faced in relief at the end of a 5-3 loss on Nov. 21, 1998. Underhill made his first career start at Matthews Arena the following Tuesday and stopped 47 of 49 shots to lead Cornell to a 4-2 win over Northeastern.

> The strange thing is that Manderville ended up in the NHL as a good defensive player.

Mandy got a big, bad attitude adjustment in the Canadian Olympic camp. The coaches weren't having any of his attitude and he wasn't even close to their top flight offensive talent, so to get any time at all he had to play a solid two-way game.

It really, really has paid off for him in the pros, where he's earned a role and stuck around far longer than many of us thought he would.

I did some research on our two back-ups and here's what I was able to find regarding their playing abilities:

Todd Marr:

Northeastern University: NO RECORD
[www.gonu.com]

Waterloo Black Hawks: 2000-2001
GP Min GAA W L T GA Saves Save %
21 1117:31 3.87 8 9 0 72 580 0.890
[www.waterlooblackhawks.com]


Louis Chabot:

OCN Blizzard: 2001-2002
GP Min GAA W L T GA SO Saves Save %
29 1627:00 2.40 25 2 0 65 3 670 0.911
[www.ocnblizzard.com] or
[cornellbigred.ocsn.com]



I'm guessing most of us already know this information but I figured I'd post it anyway.

edit: sorry about the spacing when trying to read the stats, it won't let me space thme out any more.

Would Marr's game at Waterloo include the exhibition game we won 2 years ago?

Cornell occasionally plays the University of Waterloo (top-notch comp sci department, by the way), not the Waterloo Black Hawks, who play in the USHL.

Louis Chabot's numbers at OCN have suggested to me that he can flourish as a backup goaltender on a team with a stifling defense. (Chabot backed up Marc-Andre Leclerc, who posted even better numbers than Chabot. LeClerc, if I recall correctly, is two years older than Chabot.) Keep in mind, however, that I've never seen Chabot play, so I cannot subjectively evaluate his abilities.

Leclerc was the Blizzard's playoff goaltender last year, but he sat out a Royal Bank Cup game against the Royal Balfour Sabrecats due to a knee injury. Chabot got the nod in net, and the Blizzard won 5-0.
[www.ocnblizzard.com]