Cornell 5, Quinnipiac 3 (postgame)

Phew - no oh-and-three start. Nice thing Q'pac started a goaltender not in good shape.

Nice mix of scoring by old and new.

Scrivens 22 x 24 if you discount the penalty shot.

I was scared of being embarrassed in Madison Square Garden. Now, just worried.

Well BU hasn't had the greatest start to their season either. Plus they have a couple teams off to bad starts in UVM and NU and a few cupcakes coming up in UMass-Lowell and Harvard.

After a very bad start to the season. It was good to see we can have some offense. However, this team desperately needs discipline; two minor penalties during a major is unnacceptable, especially from the captain. Good effort tonight. Krueger, M. Devin, Mugford, R. Nash and the Kennedys were very impressive.

Let's Go Red!

Harvard just humiliated SLUt 6-1.

Omie
However, this team desperately needs discipline; two minor penalties during a major is unnacceptable, especially from the captain.

Let's Go Red!

DEFINITELY agree. Ray Sawada should NOT have taken that penalty.

oceanst41
Well BU hasn't had the greatest start to their season either. Plus they have a couple teams off to bad starts in UVM and NU and a few cupcakes coming up in UMass-Lowell and Harvard.

UML didn't start out as a cupcake for BU tonight. They led 4-1 in the middle of the 2nd...but after replacing their sieve, BU came back to score 6 unanswered and take the game 7-4. Looks like we might actually have ourselves a game at MSG

Can someone who was at the game comment on the Berk hit? I watched it a couple times on the webcast and it looked like a slow motion love tap. From my view, QU player went down like an Italian soccer player.

Also, did I hear Arthur announce a game DQ for the hit? I don't think Jason ever mentioned it.

Finally, any idea what the lag time is on game archives with redcast?

Chris '03
I watched it a couple times on the webcast and it looked like a slow motion love tap. From my view, QU player went down like an Italian soccer player.

Ditto, but I wasn't at the game.

Omie
Harvard just humiliated SLUt 6-1.

Not as much of a blowout as it looks; Harvard led by only a goal halfway through the third. And it was still only 3-1 with four minutes to play.

Chris '03

Also, did I hear Arthur announce a game DQ for the hit? I don't think Jason ever mentioned it.

It was a game misconduct, not a DQ.

Chris '03

Finally, any idea what the lag time is on game archives with redcast?

I sent a number of emails to ICS about this. Finally, during the game someone responded and said "It is up to the discretion of the Cornell people." I replied to ask who at Cornell should be contacted, but I haven't received a response.

Avash '05

Chris '03

Also, did I hear Arthur announce a game DQ for the hit? I don't think Jason ever mentioned it.

It was a game misconduct, not a DQ.

Gracias. Box up now too: [collegehockeystats.net]

Edit: Another non-sellout at Lynah...

Up until that point, I wanted Berk to be named Player of the Weekend. Last night he had three phenomenal blocks on his stomach, added two more tonight before being sent to the locker room, and some great stuff on offense.

He's one to watch.

Barlow was fantastic tonight. The second period presented the team with three very difficult situations, 2 of which led to goals...Not bad.

Oh jesus, I needed this...LGR!

Chris '03
Gracias. Box up now too: [collegehockeystats.net]

Edit: Another non-sellout at Lynah...

So Devin gets credited with the last goal, not Mugford? I thought there was a deflection.

The Berk hit would've been 2 IMO, but the guy stayed down for a while, convincing the ref to call the major. No way we should have let Q tie it up. Undisciplined play almost left us 0-2-1.

Can anyone comment on Scrivens's performance for those of us who couldn't watch the game/feed?

On the quinnipiac postgame they interviewed Pecknold who whined about the first Cornell goal. He said we clipped Vetri, and he was certain the goal was going to be called off, watched the replay already..."it was the turning point in the game" yada yada. Did anyone else notice this?

sah67
Can anyone comment on Scrivens's performance for those of us who couldn't watch the game/feed?

No chance on the first goal. Nelson chipped in a fat rebound on the second goal. Scrivens couldn't cover it up--people in A/B can comment as to whether he should have been able to pounce on the puck. I believe the penalty shot was scored five hole. Scrivens was deep in the crease when atkinson let the shot go. Overall he looked a lot like Scrivens. He did some things that made you scratch your head, but he made some nice saves late in the second period when we were hurting. I recall one post to post save in particular.

Edit: I should mention I watched on the pc.

I'd say he looked okay, but I don't think it was his day today. He was caught out of position a couple of times, and he seems to really like skating up to the blue line (once leaving the net wide open and he took his sweet time coming back). But, he did make some really nice saves and seems to be somewhat consistent.

Oh, and he had a really nice jump-dive-roll over that one Q player that came crashing into the net.

Chris '03
I watched it a couple times on the webcast and it looked like a slow motion love tap. From my view, QU player went down like an Italian soccer player.

It looked like a pretty hard hit into the boards from behind, a combination of charging, boarding and hitting from behind. I was sitting in G, so it was a little difficult to tell, but it was definitely a penalty and I can't say that a major was right, but I can't say it was wrong either.

Undisciplined, Hah!! That second period needs to be addressed by the league. Dell Was aweful. The penalty shot should havenever happened, the defender knocked the puck away before the Q player was tripped, at most it deserved a 2 min. This is just one complaint of many.

Scrivens IMHO played a very good game. He handles the puck very well and offers a lot more confidence than I saw in Davenport last night. Two powerplay goals and a Penalty shot is tough to complain about.

My opinion of the game is that it took a lot of moxie to weather the second period and finish the game the way they did. The team is growing, this season should prove to be exciting with all the talent we have.

A good win tonight. After a very rough 2nd period (yes some of it their doing), it was great to see them come out and get the lead very early in the 3rd. It was also nice that they got an insurance goal too.

I was watching on the webcast so things not very clear, but it does sound like the 5 minute major was a very subjective call and not an obvious hit from behind.

For the people at the game... it seem like Devin was taking a lot of shots from the point... were most of them getting through and to the net?

Here's hoping that they can build on this win next weekend (and leave the stupid penalties behind).

LGR!

It was hard to see what happened on the penalty shot, but I think Atkinson lifted the puck over Scrivens' right leg.

For the people at the game... it seem like Devin was taking a lot of shots from the point... were most of them getting through and to the net?


LGR![/quote]

Devin has a pretty heavy shot. It will be really nice to see how good he is in four years. The brothers Devin and Kennedy played hard. Nash has some great potential. If he hangs around we have a bright future.

Much needed win for the team. I though Devin, Mugford, and Seminoff played fabulous today, Krantz on the other hand was not as impressive.

I think we have two very winnable games next weekend- look forward to seeing you guys there.

redhair34
On the quinnipiac postgame they interviewed Pecknold who whined about the first Cornell goal. He said we clipped Vetri, and he was certain the goal was going to be called off, watched the replay already..."it was the turning point in the game" yada yada. Did anyone else notice this?

Yup, definitely could have been called goaltender interference. Many of the fans around me thought it had been waved off as well, although I think the Q defensemen got as much of their goaltender as we did hence the none call. I guess the end result was a hell of a screen.

LaJollaRed
Up until that point, I wanted Berk to be named Player of the Weekend. Last night he had three phenomenal blocks on his stomach, added two more tonight before being sent to the locker room, and some great stuff on offense.

He's one to watch.

Barlow was fantastic tonight. The second period presented the team with three very difficult situations, 2 of which led to goals...Not bad.

Oh jesus, I needed this...LGR!

I agree, Berk is off to a great start. He has come from vying for the final roster spot to a mainstay on the PP unit. Schafer will have a tough decision when Nash returns. That being said, his hit definitely warranted a 5 minute major, easy call for the official every time.

Doug '08
Schafer will have a tough decision when Nash returns.

At this point Davenport has to be the odd man out.

Especially seeing as the focus needs to be on a disciplined team and the way he lost his cool when that Quinnipiac player went after Scrivens. Not that I wouldn't have too, it's just important that we play a cool game right now.

redhair34
At this point Davenport has to be the odd man out.

I would tend to agree with that, although it gives the defense a bit of depth in terms of game experience. I wouldn't be surprised if we continued to see a bit of roster shakeups for each game once Nash gets back, platooning 7 defenders. Although that's a bridge we'll cross when we come to it.
Along the same lines, I agree with Doug that Krantz had a very rough game tonight and looked all but sharp, very unlike him. Krueger has been my most impressive defender thus far (or at least the biggest surprise) while Seminoff continues to give good performances each night.

A great, gritty, win for the guys. We played hard both nights, but tonight we were keener on scoring goals. Here's a video I took of our 2nd goal, a nice slapshot from Mike Devin with a good set up from Michael Kennedy.

Okay, when was the last time before last night that *anybody* scored on a penalty shot at Lynah?

Chris '03
Box up now too: [collegehockeystats.net]

The box lists the PPGs as '6x5' or '6x4' - that is strange, right? Less strange, but unfortunate all the same, is that Ventri didn't get the L for Quinny.

Nice to get a win. And to score 5 in a game before Minnesota.

LaJollaRed
Up until that point, I wanted Berk to be named Player of the Weekend. Last night he had three phenomenal blocks on his stomach, added two more tonight before being sent to the locker room, and some great stuff on offense.

He's one to watch.

I completely agree. He impressed me at the Red/White game.

It was also fun to watch R .Nash and Greening working together. I think these two will make a potent combination. Heck, Riley is fun to watch all by himself...very poised and graceful. Like Ari has said, he's on a different level.

Chris Fontas needs a mention as well. He battled two guys in a corner (near A) for 2 minutes straight before getting it off to our guys, resulting in that goal. Awesome, awesome effort.

Some nice photos from the game on website: [cornellbigred.com]

Towards the end, you can see Scrivens jumping over the Quinnipiac player.

BMac
Chris Fontas needs a mention as well. He battled two guys in a corner (near A) for 2 minutes straight before getting it off to our guys, resulting in that goal. Awesome, awesome effort.

Absolutely!

ebilmes
Some nice photos from the game on website: [cornellbigred.com]

Towards the end, you can see Scrivens jumping over the Quinnipiac player.

That's a great sequence...very athletic on Scrivens' part. It looks like the Q player tried to up-end Scrivens deliberately. It looks like he came in low and raised his body to take out Scrivens feet as he jumped!

Could see it clear as day on WETM 11pm news in Elmira, 5 hole.

ebilmes
It was hard to see what happened on the penalty shot, but I think Atkinson lifted the puck over Scrivens' right leg.

I would like to thank the cow bell guy (sorry I didn't catch your user name it was loud when you told me) and the rest of the Cornell fans for making me feel welcomed even though I am a Gopher fan. Getting the chance to experience Lynah from section B was fantastic. I will be visiting quite a few other rinks/arneas out east this fall but it is going to be tough for them to top Saturday night.

ugarte
The box lists the PPGs as '6x5' or '6x4' - that is strange, right?

Yes, it is. But that's how they've always done it. They're also a bunch of assholes. Just thought you might want to know.

jtwcornell91
Okay, when was the last time before last night that *anybody* scored on a penalty shot at Lynah?

[www.tbrw.info]

Joe Nieuwendyk, 2/27/87, vs Steve Duncan of RPI. It was part of a hat trick in Joe's penultimate game (he scored a hat trick the next night, too), and by weird coincidence I have it on cassette tape.

Carvel's against Duffus was at Appleton.

This is a fairly good assessment of the night. Scrivens did struggle at several points during the game, namely in the second period along with the whole team. The penalty shot did go five hole as people on here have mentioned. Scrivens stayed too far in his net on this. Atkinson was pretty much half way in the crease when the shot was taken. The first goal was just a great play by the Q PP. Second he probably could have covered it as mentioned, however like the night before people were open around the net, granted it was a 5x3. The puck also bounced off of Seminoff's glove down to the ice in front of the net as he was trying to swat it out of the air.

Cornell played a fairly decent game. The beginning of the first and the third was a great showing. However, that second period reminded me of last years third period at Princeton, just not to as bad of an extent. Cornell showed great poise to come back. It looked like Q ran out of gas. They also didn't have the advantage of having the whole third period a man up as well.

hockeydude

However, that second period reminded me of last years third period at Princeton, just not to as bad of an extent.

Excellent analogy, I was thinking the same thing. Although we WERE able to come back in third in that one...

Yes, Princeton scored two goals in the third and Davenport made a phenomenal save on a 2 on 0 after a defensive zone turnover with about two minutes left to preserve the win. I believe that period was the start of the struggles for Cornell last year. With the way Cornell rebounded in the third period against Q, that may be a momentum changer for the rest of the season.

CollegeHockeyAddict
I would like to thank the cow bell guy (sorry I didn't catch your user name it was loud when you told me) and the rest of the Cornell fans for making me feel welcomed even though I am a Gopher fan. Getting the chance to experience Lynah from section B was fantastic. I will be visiting quite a few other rinks/arneas out east this fall but it is going to be tough for them to top Saturday night.

Glad you enjoyed the game- look forward to seeing you at MSG at the end of the month.

CollegeHockeyAddict
I would like to thank the cow bell guy (sorry I didn't catch your user name it was loud when you told me) and the rest of the Cornell fans for making me feel welcomed even though I am a Gopher fan. Getting the chance to experience Lynah from section B was fantastic. I will be visiting quite a few other rinks/arneas out east this fall but it is going to be tough for them to top Saturday night.

Glad you enjoyed the Lynah experience! Its always nice to hear other fans coming in to Ithaca and being able to appreciate Lynah for what it is...one of the best sports experiences and having fans make you feel welcome is also very nice to hear! Thanks.

Was just doing the box scores and noticed something with the penalty shot. Q was on the power play at the time, so it should be a PPG, but the Cornell box score and collegehockeystats show it as even strength. That's incorrect, right? Which also makes their PP chances wrong. 2 minors in the first, Nicholls and Nash minors in the second. Then two for the Berk major (start, and third Q goal), and one more for the Sawada minor during the major? Can't remember if a minor completely encompassed by a major counts as two.

CowbellGuy
Was just doing the box scores and noticed something with the penalty shot. Q was on the power play at the time, so it should be a PPG, but the Cornell box score and collegehockeystats show it as even strength. That's incorrect, right?

I would assume that a penalty shot never counts as a power play goal. It's a just penalty shot, a special case. It makes no difference to the play itself whether the teams were at even strength when it was called.

Not saying I'm right. Just that the Cornell and collegehockeystats boxes are consistent with what I would expect to see.

KeithK
I would assume that a penalty shot never counts as a power play goal. It's a just penalty shot, a special case. It makes no difference to the play itself whether the teams were at even strength when it was called.

Not saying I'm right. Just that the Cornell and collegehockeystats boxes are consistent with what I would expect to see.

I can't argue with what you'd expect, Keith, but I can understand why it makes perfect sense to count it as a power play goal. Penalty shots are awarded to recreate the breakaway that just happened during the game's normal play. You're right that once it's just the skater and the goalie (as in the penalty shot) the number of players behind the skater ceases to matter. That's just as true in a power play breakaway situation when the skater wasn't taken down from behind, though. If he goes on to score he still gets a PP goal, even though it was just the goalie and him for the last third of the ice.

You (if you're the one deciding scoring rules) have to assume that the breakaway leading to the penalty shot was a result of the man-advantage situation, just like you assume that any goal scored during a power play is a result of the man-advantage situation. Once you acknowledge that it was essentially a "PP breakaway" (which could lead to a PP goal), it stands to reason that the penalty shot resulting from it and mimicking it could lead to a PP goal.

Rule 4 Section 2 A.R. 1.6: A penalty cannot expire as a result of a goal scored on a penalty shot.

Though there's nothing in there that directly answers the question, that's the closest I could find to indicate that it would not be a PPG, which kind of goes against the whole "recreating the breakaway" business.

See the NCAA Ice Hockey Statisticians Manual, page 10, section 8, article 6:

Penalty shots are not considered power-play opportunities. A
goal scored on a penalty shot is always even-strength, however it should
be noted if the attempt was awarded during a power-play or short-handed
situation.

Speaking of the penalty shot, check out this new column, "Off the Crossbar," in the Ithaca Journal . This is the second installment and I hope he keeps it up during the year; he does a real nice job.


[ithacajournal.com]

Thanks. Was looking for that manual, but couldn't find it.

That was an extremely comprehensive Cornell hockey article... very impressive.

As for the penalty shot rule, I think they should switch to the NHL's version. The ability to backcheck on a breakaway and knock the puck away is an amazing defensive play. It's just another rule that removes skill from the game.

tripping is tripping.. so its a penalty.. i still havent seen any evidence as to why it was a penalty shot.. the puck was gone and since he got the puck he didnt have a clear chance to shoot removed by the penalty.. now if he tripped the guy and then hit the puck maybe but thats not the way it happened..

upperdeck
tripping is tripping.. so its a penalty.. i still havent seen any evidence as to why it was a penalty shot.. the puck was gone and since he got the puck he didnt have a clear chance to shoot removed by the penalty.. now if he tripped the guy and then hit the puck maybe but thats not the way it happened..

Agree, totally.

That was a fantastic article. Great investigative reporting by Thomas on the penalty shot.

I do agree, though, that the NCAA should adopt the NHL version of the rule.

amerks127
That was a fantastic article. Great investigative reporting by Thomas on the penalty shot.

If you mean a journalist actually taking the time to open the rule book, yes.

But seriously, I agree, very good writing. This may be a column to follow.

Omie
However, this team desperately needs discipline; two minor penalties during a major is unnacceptable, especially from the captain.

From the CornellBigRed.com "game notes" for the upcoming weekend:

In The Sin Bin

Through three games this season, Cornell ranks as the second most-penalized team in the nation, behind only Nebraska-Omaha. The Big Red has been whistled for an average of 22.7 minutes worth of penalties per contest, with a high of 29 minutes on Nov. 3 against Quinnipiac. Sophomore Colin Greening’s 19 minutes are currently the most on the team, while freshman Jordan Berk has been whistled for 15 minutes in penalties.

Jim Hyla

upperdeck
tripping is tripping.. so its a penalty.. i still havent seen any evidence as to why it was a penalty shot.. the puck was gone and since he got the puck he didnt have a clear chance to shoot removed by the penalty.. now if he tripped the guy and then hit the puck maybe but thats not the way it happened..

Agree, totally.

While watching the game I had the same exact thought. Its hard to know on the video feed if it was really a penalty or not, but that I could buy... but the Q guy had maybe half a step on him. By no means was it a clear breakaway, had an easy shot taken away, nor was he taken down from 'behind', but rather from the side.

With Dell that night, unfortunately, it was par for the course. But a PS on that play didn't make any sense.

Great IJ column. Hey, eLynah is short on content...

DeltaOne81
With Dell that night, unfortunately, it was par for the course. But a PS on that play didn't make any sense.

After watching on the archive, I agree it was probably not worth a penalty shot. However, with much more certainty, I can say that Dell was really excited to call a penalty shot.

Thanks to others for links to the Ithaca Journal's hockey stories. Brandon Thomas, the IJ hockey writer, seems to know what he's talking about and writes well (which could always be a good copy editor, too). Enjoy him while he lasts.