[s]Two[/s] Three more recruits.

Are you guys all still so giddy about Riley Nash that you haven't checked Heisenberg's list today.

Dan Nicholls-RW (4/4/07) Bowmanville (OPJHL) 6' 195 1-20-88 47-4-14-18-107 || 23-9-6-15-45

Jordan Berk-LD (4/4/07) Salmon Arm (BCHL) 5'11 178 3-27-88 59-8-34-42-34

107 PM's. Me thinks he is the Hornsby type!!

A forward with 18 points in the OPJHL?

That makes 14 forwards and 8 defensemen (if Johnston is in their plans) for next season. I assume there is still one more forward coming and possibly still one more defenseman.

I'm going to share Ari's skepticism regarding Nicholls. 18 points? He better be lights out defensively. Does look like he has an edge, assuming those 107 PIMs arn't all mindless hooking and holding penalties.

does anyone know anything about these two other than what the stats tell us?

evilnaturedrobot
does anyone know anything about these two other than what the stats tell us?

YouTube rules:







Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

Trotsky
Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

I can't wait to be at home so I can watch these clips. Until then, I trust that Schafer and staff are looking beyond the stat line. Or perhaps only at the last column.

ugarte

Trotsky
Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

I can't wait to be at home so I can watch these clips. Until then, I trust that Schafer and staff are looking beyond the stat line. Or perhaps only at the last column.

I mean someone's got to protect Nash now right?

Trotsky

evilnaturedrobot
does anyone know anything about these two other than what the stats tell us?

YouTube rules:







Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

You know, I really wasn't that impressed with that hit, but then I saw it in sepia! Wow! Changed everything for me.

evilnaturedrobot

Trotsky

evilnaturedrobot
does anyone know anything about these two other than what the stats tell us?

YouTube rules:







Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

You know, I really wasn't that impressed with that hit, but then I saw it in sepia! Wow! Changed everything for me.

I bet the posters of those clips are going to wonder why they are suddenly getting a lot of hits.

Looks like Nicholls is currently playing bodygaurd for a Clarkson recruit who's leading Bowmanville in scoring (Scott Freeman - 97 pts).

Well that's going to have to change!

The Rancor
107 PM's. Me thinks he is the Hornsby type!!

Why, is there a piano in the Bowmanville penalty box?

Am I correct in assuming that Jordie Berk is Doug Berk's son?

cbuckser
Am I correct in assuming that Jordie Berk is Doug Berk's son?

You are correct.

From this article:

[www.fyilondon.com]

"Jordan Berk moves to the London Nationals to play for his father along with Mark Meya from the London Junior Knights."

and

LONDON NATIONALS
Last season: 22-22-1-3, fifth place
Goals for and against: 161-173
Playoffs: Defeated St. Marys; swept by Chatham
Part owner/GM/head coach: Doug Berk

ursusminor

evilnaturedrobot

Trotsky

evilnaturedrobot
does anyone know anything about these two other than what the stats tell us?

YouTube rules:







Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

You know, I really wasn't that impressed with that hit, but then I saw it in sepia! Wow! Changed everything for me.

I bet the posters of those clips are going to wonder why they are suddenly getting a lot of hits.

Clearly, you don't follow EBowmansville Forum.

pfibiger

cbuckser
Am I correct in assuming that Jordie Berk is Doug Berk's son?

You are correct.

OK, now I'm feeling old.

I was convinced at first look that Ralph or Heisenberg reversed the stats on the two new guys. A RW with 42 points in 59 ganes and a LD with 4-14-18 are more typical. But I checked the team sites and the numbers are right.

yep. there is that grit we were looking for!

Trotsky

evilnaturedrobot
does anyone know anything about these two other than what the stats tell us?

YouTube rules:







Judging by that first clip, um... I don't think we got him for his offense.

Awesome hit, without breaking stride, judging by the first clip. The opponent's helmet flying off was a nice touch.

Second clip, maybe we should recruit the vidoegrapher. His or her ability to let fans get in the way would carry on the Lynah CSTV fine tradition of obscured video.

billhoward
Awesome hit, without breaking stride, judging by the first clip. The opponent's helmet flying off was a nice touch.

Almost falling down himself after the hit isn't quite as impressive. Need to stay on your skates.

KeithK

billhoward
Awesome hit, without breaking stride, judging by the first clip. The opponent's helmet flying off was a nice touch.

Almost falling down himself after the hit isn't quite as impressive. Need to stay on your skates.

Yeah, but I'm willing to believe that it was the falling player sliding into him that took him down, not the hit itself. Either way, I'm sure he'll learn to keep his skates after those hits at Cornell.

The pep band should learn "Enter Sandman." Mostly because it would be funny to hear them do it.

Does anyone know if Chris Moulson is coming this year or next year? Yes that is Matts brother.

flyersgolf
Does anyone know if Chris Moulson is coming this year or next year? Yes that is Matts brother.

Heisenberg still lists him as uncommitted.

< feels there's gotta be an 'uncertainty' joke in there somewhere >

DeltaOne81

flyersgolf
Does anyone know if Chris Moulson is coming this year or next year? Yes that is Matts brother.

Heisenberg still lists him as uncommitted.

< feels there's gotta be an 'uncertainty' joke in there somewhere >

We know his skill level, we just don't know where he's going.

How's that?

[wohl.ca]

Roeszler looks like a really good pickup, but what's the reputation of the WOJHL?

rstott
Roeszler looks like a really good pickup, but what's the reputation of the WOJHL?

It's a decent league. Patrick Kennedy and Mike Kennedy both played for St. Thomas in the WOJHL. Jordan Berk played in the WOHL before spending a year in Salmon Arm this year. It's not as deep as the BCHL, OPJHL or USHL, but the top players are often very good hockey players. They usually end up with at least 2-3 D1 scholarships a year.

That has to be the son (or nephew or whatever) of Jeff Roeszler, the most underrated Cornell player of the modern era IMO. Nice.

Does anyone know how Heisenbergs rankings work because it looks like Mike Devin in the highest ranked defenseman in the BCHL and I swear he wasn't last time I checked.

scannon
Does anyone know how Heisenbergs rankings work because it looks like Mike Devin in the highest ranked defenseman in the BCHL and I swear he wasn't last time I checked.

There isn't much rhyme or reason to the list, Chris seems to just shuffle them around as his opinion shifts. It's a pretty loose ranking anyway, especially for leagues he doesn't follow as closely. Joe Devin also used to be ranked ahead of his brother, now is quite a bit below.

Hillel Hoffmann
That has to be the son (or nephew or whatever) of Jeff Roeszler, the most underrated Cornell player of the modern era IMO. Nice.

Tyler is Geoff's son.

The WOHL is a Junior B league but Roezler's numbers are pretty exceptional and not all that different from what Moulson put up his last year in Junior B. The comparisons probably end there as they play different positions and Moulson is six inches taller but the numbers are impressive.

rstott
Roeszler looks like a really good pickup, but what's the reputation of the WOJHL?

This should put your mind at ease: WOHL Alumni

Let's hope that this post, in a debate over whether Roeszler should have been MVP, is accurate:

Gilmour
First Roeszler is the m.v.p no doubt, The kid is on an "ok" team and puts up top numbers destroying Campbell by what, 18 points? Roeszler is a threat everytime he steps on the ice. Every team knows to key on him yet nobody can shut him out. As far as consistency, get real, you dont get 113 points by being inconsistant.

(WOHL Forum)


Then again, there is always this: Heisenberg's 2008 Preview (Scroll down to 2008 preview -- Philadelphia has nothing on Ithaca these days!)

doesn't this give us 1 more forward than the team usually carries?

calgARI '07
The WOHL is a Junior B league but Roezler's numbers are pretty exceptional and not all that different from what Moulson put up his last year in Junior B. The comparisons probably end there as they play different positions and Moulson is six inches taller but the numbers are impressive.

For the sake of comparison, Cam and Chris Abbott averaged 1.34 and 1.43 points per game in their final season in the WOHL. Roezler averaged 2.35 points per game this past season.

Is this year's incoming freshman class as highly regarded as last year's? More so? Because for all our enthusiasm with the quantity of good freshmen of 2006-07, it was others -- Sean Brackman of Yale and Brandon Wong of Quinnipiac -- who were the ECAC rookies of they year, and only Brendon Nash who made the rookie team from Cornell. I'm not complaining too much about getting freshmen. Just that it would be nice to have a Zach Parise type stumble into Ithaca, too.

2006-07 ECACHL ALL LEAGUE TEAMS

ALL-ROOKIE TEAM
G - Alex Petizian, St. Lawrence*
D - Alex Biega, Harvard
D - Brendon Nash, Cornell
F - Sean Backman, Yale*
F - T.J. Galiardi, Dartmouth
F - Brandon Wong, Quinnipiac
* - unanimous selection 

INDIVIDUAL & TEAM AWARDS
Player of the Year - Drew Bagnall, St. Lawrence
Ken Dryden Award - David Leggio, Clarkson
Co-Rookie of the Year - Sean Backman, Yale
Co-Rookie of the Year - Brandon Wong, Quinnipiac
Best Defensive Forward - Kyle Rank, St. Lawrence
Best Defensive Defenseman - Drew Bagnall, St. Lawrence
Tim Taylor Coach of the Year - Joe Marsh, St. Lawrence*
Student-Athlete of the Year - Olivier Bouchard, Union
Turfer Athletic Trophy - St. Lawrence

FIRST-TEAM ALL-LEAGUE
G - David Leggio, Clarkson
D - Reid Cashman, Quinnipiac
D - Drew Bagnall, St. Lawrence*
F - David Jones, Dartmouth*
F - Kyle Rank, St. Lawrence
F - Nick Dodge, Clarkson

SECOND-TEAM ALL-LEAGUE
G - Mark Dekanich, Colgate
G - Alex Petizian, St. Lawrence 
D - Sean Hurley, Brown
D - Dylan Reese, Harvard
F - Tyler Burton, Colgate
F - Jeff Prough, Brown
F - Jesse Winchester, Colgate 

THIRD-TEAM ALL-LEAGUE
D - Ben Lovejoy, Dartmouth
D - Jake Luthi, Rensselaer
F - Sean Backman, Yale
F - Byron Bitz, Cornell
F - Brandon Wong, Quinnipiac

No offense, but this is defintiely a "down" year for Cornell recruiting. Riley Nash is an impact guy, no question, but last year at several high end recruits (at least on paper). These guys - Berk, Nicholls, and Roezler all seem to be fairly low-end. They are ranked incredibly low by Heisenberg whose rankings are generally accurate, with some exceptions on both sides of the coin....Heck, RIT has recruits ranked higher than these guys. These three appear to be a 4th line checking line to me.

You never know until they dress, but after Nash, Cornell doesn't appear have a lot to hang its hat on. I don't think this class is even in the Top 4 in the ECAC this year. Dartmouth, Clarkson, Harvard, and Princeton are all better and you could argue a few others as well.

Just my 2 cents

I disagree; Nash, Roezler (2+ points/game) and Mike Devin (highest BCHL D-man in heisenberg's list) all look pretty good. The rest, we'll see but I wouldn't say this was a weak class at all.

They may not be as good as this year (I'm not saying they're not either) but we can't always have recruiting classes that contribute 80pts in their first season.

You're crazy. Nash is not just an impact guy, he's an elite prospect and alone brings up the recruiting class dramatically. Patrick Kennedy was poised to have a really big year, and was slowed by mono. Mike Devin has proved himself to be an impact defenseman in the BCHL, and Jordan Berk got really big minutes in Salmon Arm. A mobile puck moving defenseman, he put up numbers almost identical to Brendon Nash last year. Roeszler has put up unreal numbers in the WOHL. I agree with you about Nicholls, but he wasn't recruited to be an offensive phenom.

Heisenberg's rankings fluctuate and are vague at best. I'm pleased with how this recruiting class turned out,

bothman
Just my 2 cents

That's cool. I'm willing to settle it on the ice.

You may be right and you never really know until the puck is dropped, but on paper this class is not as good as last year's (this does not include 2008 recruits). Again, this class on paper is not a Top 4 ECAC class this year.

Look at Princeton, Clarkson, Harvard, and Dartmouth.....even RPI.

Speaking of which, does anyone do a recruiting rankings by league? I'd be curious how the so-called experts rank the 2007 classes for the ECAC schools.

Yes, apparently you do.

Before (or, anyway, while) we all jump down bothman's throat, he's obviously entitled to his opinion, which has been expressed respectfully, and he's a longtime contributor and clearly not a troll.

bothman
They are ranked incredibly low by Heisenberg whose rankings are generally accurate, with some exceptions

Of course, Chris also included the following statement in his blog:

Riley Nash seems to be down to two programs, North Dakota and Denver, with his preference for an 07 or 08 arrival also up in the air

Heisenberg is an invaluable source as a scorecard for what recruits have gone where -- really, one of the most useful (and most well-researched) sites on the net. But where are these comparative rankings of players that you speak of? All I have seen are his "to" and "from" lists of players.

I have been looking for a ranking mechanism of recruiting classes for the TBRW predictions for years.

I was under the impression that his "from" list is organised by how good he thinks players are.

I might be way off base though

That is correct. Heisenberg's order of players within each league such as Mass / New England or the BCHL, is his opinion of their relative rankings. That is why you geenrally see the big schools - BC, Wisconsin, UND, etc - getting the players at the top of each list.

With that said, there have been plenty of folks high on the list that have not panned out and similarly, there have been plenty of folks down on the list, that have.

scannon
I was under the impression that his "from" list is organised by how good he thinks players are.

I might be way off base though

They are intended to be that. I asked him several years ago. He admits that the further west you go, the more he relies upon others' opinions for the rankings.

I think that he does a most credible and valuable job and rarely enters a recruit who ends up going elsewhere.

bothman
That is correct. Heisenberg's order of players within each league such as Mass / New England or the BCHL, is his opinion of their relative rankings. That is why you geenrally see the big schools - BC, Wisconsin, UND, etc - getting the players at the top of each list.

Learn something new every day, thanks.

You could then theoretically create an overall player ranking with his position in a league and the relative strength of the league (this would assume that league talent was similarily distributed with respect to NCAA propsects). However although position is known, the strength of the conferences is not.

It is, after all, Heisenberg.

If you wanted to rank the different leagues you could probably find statistics on the number of pros who came out of each league/ number of D-1 recruits etc.

What with that and the heisenberg rankings you might be able to form the most uncertain rankings in the history of college hockey (except the pre-season rankings of course)

Trotsky
Heisenberg is an invaluable source as a scorecard for what recruits have gone where -- really, one of the most useful (and most well-researched) sites on the net.

... except for the fact that he hits his AOL bandwidth quota by noon Eastern just about every day.

Josh '99

Trotsky
Heisenberg is an invaluable source as a scorecard for what recruits have gone where -- really, one of the most useful (and most well-researched) sites on the net.

... except for the fact that he hits his AOL bandwidth quota by noon Eastern just about every day.

It does say that he has found a new host. However, it has said so for a few months now.

Josh '99
except for the fact that he hits his AOL bandwidth quota by noon Eastern just about every day.

I'm sure he would accept a donation to help finance expanded capacity.

pfibiger
Nash is not just an impact guy, he's an elite prospect and alone brings up the recruiting class dramatically. Patrick Kennedy was poised to have a really big year, and was slowed by mono. Mike Devin has proved himself to be an impact defenseman in the BCHL, and Jordan Berk got really big minutes in Salmon Arm. A mobile puck moving defenseman, he put up numbers almost identical to Brendon Nash last year. Roeszler has put up unreal numbers in the WOHL,

I agree with you that on paper, Nash, Mike Devin, Roeszler, and Kennedy are top-tier recruits. Berk was one of Salmon Arm's top defenders (with only 34 penalty minutes in 59 games!), and Heisenberg ranks him the twelfth defender in the BCHL. (Among the 11 ahead of him, Devin is going to Cornell and five are uncommitted for next year.) We'll have to wait and see about Joe Devin, Johnston, and Nichols.

What concerns me more is how little recruiting penetration we have in some areas. You'd expect the New England teams to have the inside track in New England, and the midwestern teams in Minnesota. But we are not a top-ten team when it comes to competing for players from the USHL or the USNDP, both of which draw nationally. We also didn't make a dent in Alberta or Saskatchewan. We're doing better than most schools in finding players in places like Texas, but landing diamonds in the rough rather than blue chippers is more typical of mid-majors than elite programs.

Swampy
What concerns me more is how little recruiting penetration we have in some areas. You'd expect the New England teams to have the inside track in New England, and the midwestern teams in Minnesota. But we are not a top-ten team when it comes to competing for players from the USHL or the USNDP, both of which draw nationally. We also didn't make a dent in Alberta or Saskatchewan. We're doing better than most schools in finding players in places like Texas, but landing diamonds in the rough rather than blue chippers is more typical of mid-majors than elite programs.

Coaches develop different contacts. Mike and his staff have been exceptionally strong in BC. Brian McCutcheon recruited very well in Alberta. Prior to him, Cornell used to rake in the prospects from the "Golden Horseshoe." You can't be all places at all times, and I think I would prefer deep and dependable penetration in a few rich areas over superficial contact with many.

I would love to see guys start to come from the USHL and USNDP, however, as they appear to be making great advances, and I would think they would have a higher proportion of guys going into the NCAA over, say, Major Junior.

Trotsky

Coaches develop different contacts. Mike and his staff have been exceptionally strong in BC. ... You can't be all places at all times, and I think I would prefer deep and dependable penetration in a few rich areas over superficial contact with many.

Understood. It would be interesting to see how many different garden plots different coaching staffs harvest. My impression is that BC and a few other programs draw more or less evenly on 4-5, while we tend to recruit heavily from about 3. This may also be a function of being based in Massachusetts or Minnesota: if the high school players go off to the USHL or the USNDP, connections to high-school coaches may translate into connections to these garden patches.

Also, I'd rather regularly get 3-4 of the top dozen players from one of the stronger leagues than an even distribution of mid-level players from several different leagues. Mike's relationship to the Clippers has been a tremendous asset. Thankfully, the Clippers are always one of the top teams in the BCHL, if not Canada.

Finally, notice how many kids are being gobbled up 2-3 years in advance. This seems particularly true with the USNDP. Mike is on record as saying he's wary of predicting a kid's development so far in advance (not to mention academic performance), but I wonder if he's going to have to change his tune to capture that elusive third national title.

I love the interest and passion shown here for the team. Last years recruiting class has yet to grasp what it is to be a Cornell Hockey player and hopefully that chemistry and understanding to the system will come and no more suspensions will be needed.
I am even a little more excited about this years incoming class because of the classy guys that are coming in. I do not think this is an accident.
When Doug Berk and Geoff Roezler came to Cornell from Penn they were immediately taken in by the team because of the people they are. Doug was always smiling, talking and great with the youth hockey kids and would come to the games at lynah in the morning to watch. Geoff was more quiet but as tough as they come and hanging with Doug. I can still remember Johnny Olds and Doug Berk kill penalties, you could hear the blades of thier skates grind trough the ice, even in a loud bulding, no exaggeration . These guys left it all out on the ice every game. They were so exhausted after 60 that eating a whole pizza was not out of the question after a game. So they would have something in the tank for Saturday night. When Geoff Roezler would stop behind the net he would put ice over the glass, one of the fasted to skate on lynah ice.
Riley Nash is as polite as they come and has the quiet confidence much like Nieuwyndyk had when he arrived here, we have already seen that Brendon is as solid as they come and we hope he stays for while. Getting the Devin boys to come here from Catholic Memorial is a coup in itself. These two guys are winners and have been thier entire careers. All Boston schools wanted these two guys. Mike Schafer has never needed blue chippers to create a winner, he needs guys with Character, Class and Committment to the team. Better days are on the way sooner than later.

On a side note, why are good hockey prospects labeled "blue chippers"? Is there or was there a process in some league where players received color-coded rankings (similar to ski slopes)? Or perhaps is it a reference to a hard-working blue-collar man and his "chip off the 'ole block"? Just curious, as the term is thrown around by many (myself included) without knowing its true meaning.

KenP
On a side note, why are good hockey prospects labeled "blue chippers"? Is there or was there a process in some league where players received color-coded rankings (similar to ski slopes)? Or perhaps is it a reference to a hard-working blue-collar man and his "chip off the 'ole block"? Just curious, as the term is thrown around by many (myself included) without knowing its true meaning.

Poker chips (from which, "blue chip stock". Also, a snide reference to BC fans on USCHO Forum, "blue chippah."

flyersgolf
Last years recruiting class has yet to grasp what it is to be a Cornell Hockey player and hopefully that chemistry and understanding to the system will come and no more suspensions will be needed.
Mike Schafer has never needed blue chippers to create a winner, he needs guys with Character, Class and Committment to the team. Better days are on the way sooner than later.

I cant agree more. I think that last years recruiting class was full of utility players. This year's class is our grit and our elite scoring leader, which we needed desperately over the last few seasons. Well they are here. the pieces of the puzzle hopefully will come together. Will the Scrivens and Davenport combo get it together? I don't know. But don't we have an all star caliber goalie on his way next season?

The Rancor
But don't we have an all star caliber goalie on his way next season?

Michael Garman is set to arrive in fall 2008. (Unless that's what you meant. I don't know when "next season" becomes "this season".)

right, next next season.

The Rancor
. Will the Scrivens and Davenport combo get it together? I don't know. But don't we have an all star caliber goalie on his way next season?

Whatever happens with Scrivenport, we should definitely have DiLeo at forward. The kid sure takes a lot of shots with his goalie stick at the end of warmups...shots of anguish perhaps. Or maybe imagining Scrivens's or Davenport's heads as the puck.

Will

The Rancor
But don't we have an all star caliber goalie on his way next season?

Michael Garman is set to arrive in fall 2008. (Unless that's what you meant. I don't know when "next season" becomes "this season".)

185 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes, and 48 seconds... 47... 46... 45...

(Note: isn't that off by an hour, or half an hour, or something? DST doesn't end this year until November)

DeltaOne81

Will

The Rancor
But don't we have an all star caliber goalie on his way next season?

Michael Garman is set to arrive in fall 2008. (Unless that's what you meant. I don't know when "next season" becomes "this season".)

185 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes, and 48 seconds... 47... 46... 45...

(Note: isn't that off by an hour, or half an hour, or something? DST doesn't end this year until November)

Nerd.

billhoward
Just that it would be nice to have a Zach Parise type stumble into Ithaca, too.

Not likely. Why would a blue-chip recruit like that come to Cornell? Because Schafer has such a great track record turning college players into pros? He has more of a reputation of driving players to the pros early because of bad systems and an inability to coach.

Don Lucia
Jerry York
Rick Comley
Jeff Jackson
Tim Whitehead
Dick Umilie
Scott Owens

Schafer couldn't carry the clipboard for any of the above.

DILLIGAF

billhoward
Just that it would be nice to have a Zach Parise type stumble into Ithaca, too.

Not likely. Why would a blue-chip recruit like that come to Cornell? Because Schafer has such a great track record turning college players into pros? He has more of a reputation of driving players to the pros early because of bad systems and an inability to coach.

Don Lucia
Jerry York
Rick Comley
Jeff Jackson
Tim Whitehead
Dick Umilie
Scott Owens

Schafer couldn't carry the clipboard for any of the above.

It's obvious you have an agenda, but as a reminder, last season a Schafer led team beat a Scott Owens' led team in the NCAA's.

DILLIGAF

billhoward
Just that it would be nice to have a Zach Parise type stumble into Ithaca, too.

Not likely. Why would a blue-chip recruit like that come to Cornell? Because Schafer has such a great track record turning college players into pros? He has more of a reputation of driving players to the pros early because of bad systems and an inability to coach.

Don Lucia
Jerry York
Rick Comley
Jeff Jackson
Tim Whitehead
Dick Umilie
Scott Owens

Schafer couldn't carry the clipboard for any of the above.

Interesting comment, but probably not all that useful considering those big-time programs with your "elite" coaches lose more players to the pros per year than anybody. I mean, Don Lucia? He certainly recruits them, but...yeah. Based on your past few posts, I can't tell if you're kidding or not. If not, you may want to dig a little deeper for evidence to keep bashing Schafer. If so, am I the only one missing this?

Most hockey studs with visions of pros probably would not choose Cornell. I'm just hoping that once in a someone will. Obviously Ivy Leaguers make it to the pros in hockey as well as football, more so from developing late that coming in as superstars.

Schafer's magic is he's made Cornell a national power most every year and a threat to get to the Frozen Four every second, third year with only a handful of stars. The last two years, the best we've had is, what, a second-team All-ECAC player. Imagine what the man could accomplish if he could waive tuition, room, and board for 18 people a year.

There is no doubt that Cornell faces recruiting challenges that the national powerhouses do not and that in prior years Schafer has gotten to the NCAA tourney, but what explains this season? A very good, if not exceptionally talented freshman class presumably with veteran leadership and the team underachieved and often brought bad hockey to a new level.

THere were mistakes being made in November that were still being made in February. I lay a lot of the blame for this brutal year at the feet of the captains and the veterans. Topher and Byron should have been stripped of their C's. They were an embarrassment as captains. There were freshman that would have been better captains. But ultimately mistakes that are being repeated game in and game out are on the coach. Systems that don't work are on the coach.

The game is changing the new talent both this year and is different than the historically typical Cornell player.

Can anyone honestly say that anything cornell did this season looked like the hockey as it was played in the NCAA semis or the frozen four? Not a chance.

DILLIGAF
There is no doubt that Cornell faces recruiting challenges that the national powerhouses do not and that in prior years Schafer has gotten to the NCAA tourney, but what explains this season?

How about the loss to graduation of a 1 PPG forward, a steady, stay-at-home defenseman, and twin-brother sparkplugs, who committed their bodies to playing a gritty, effective style? Oh, and also the former Hobey Hat Trick finalist goaltender, as well as the two pillars you built your blue line corps around happened to decide to turn pro early. Nothing really big to replace long after the recruiting season was over...

The freshmen class could be excellent, but they were in no way used to the conditioning required at this level this past season.

Can anyone honestly say that anything cornell did this season looked like the hockey as it was played in the NCAA semis or the frozen four? Not a chance.

Wanna bet? I guess you weren't in Florida. That win vs. UNH was a strong statement of the ability of Cornell, every bit as dominating a win as many played in the tournament this year. The loss vs. Maine was a large indication of the youth and inconsistency of this team. I would also like to include the impressive win vs. Clarkson at Lynah, but they admittedly weren't at full-strength.

Keep throwing out arguments. I'd love to keep poking holes in them.

If someone wants to think the sky is falling he is entitled to do so. Rational descriptions of the reasons why this season was not stellar - which were well known and discussed last September - aren't likely to make a dent.

Bad seasons happen. Especially when you have a young team. This wasn't even a bad season.

DILLIGAF
A very good, if not exceptionally talented freshman class presumably with veteran leadership and the team underachieved and often brought bad hockey to a new level.

You think what we brought back qualified as "veteran leadership?" The core of the team was decimated by graduation and early departures, and still had a couple nice non-conference wins and contended for the league regular season title. If anything, that's a bit better than I was hoping for - either slightly overachieving or just straight achieving. Underachieving? Not a chance.

DILLIGAF
Can anyone honestly say that anything cornell did this season looked like the hockey as it was played in the NCAA semis or the frozen four? Not a chance.

Nobody on here is arguing that the '07 team was as good as the '03, '05, or '06 teams. We know they weren't as good. We just think that it was due to having lesser talent on the team this year, not because Schafer forgot how to coach.

DILLIGAF
There is no doubt that Cornell faces recruiting challenges that the national powerhouses do not and that in prior years Schafer has gotten to the NCAA tourney, but what explains this season? A very good, if not exceptionally talented freshman class presumably with veteran leadership and the team underachieved and often brought bad hockey to a new level.

how did this team underachieve? The expectation was that they would finish around fourth in the ECAC and have an up and down year. The team did, more or less, what we all expected it to do.

RichH

DILLIGAF
Can anyone honestly say that anything cornell did this season looked like the hockey as it was played in the NCAA semis or the frozen four? Not a chance.

Wanna bet? I guess you weren't in Florida. That win vs. UNH was a strong statement of the ability of Cornell, every bit as dominating a win as many played in the tournament this year. The loss vs. Maine was a large indication of the youth and inconsistency of this team. I would also like to include the impressive win vs. Clarkson at Lynah, but they admittedly weren't at full-strength.

For that matter, didn't we notice a fair amount of sloppy play during the Frozen Four? Everyone playing the college game is young, and they're all going to have off days and make mistakes. It's hardly just our guys.

Josh '99

RichH

DILLIGAF
Can anyone honestly say that anything cornell did this season looked like the hockey as it was played in the NCAA semis or the frozen four? Not a chance.

Wanna bet? I guess you weren't in Florida. That win vs. UNH was a strong statement of the ability of Cornell, every bit as dominating a win as many played in the tournament this year. The loss vs. Maine was a large indication of the youth and inconsistency of this team. I would also like to include the impressive win vs. Clarkson at Lynah, but they admittedly weren't at full-strength.

For that matter, didn't we notice a fair amount of sloppy play during the Frozen Four? Everyone playing the college game is young, and they're all going to have off days and make mistakes. It's hardly just our guys.

It is for this exact reason I find the college game so entertaining. We forget that they are just kids, yes a few will be pros, but the lot of them are just college kids.

Drew

Josh '99

RichH

DILLIGAF
Can anyone honestly say that anything cornell did this season looked like the hockey as it was played in the NCAA semis or the frozen four? Not a chance.

Wanna bet? I guess you weren't in Florida. That win vs. UNH was a strong statement of the ability of Cornell, every bit as dominating a win as many played in the tournament this year. The loss vs. Maine was a large indication of the youth and inconsistency of this team. I would also like to include the impressive win vs. Clarkson at Lynah, but they admittedly weren't at full-strength.

For that matter, didn't we notice a fair amount of sloppy play during the Frozen Four? Everyone playing the college game is young, and they're all going to have off days and make mistakes. It's hardly just our guys.

It is for this exact reason I find the college game so entertaining. We forget that they are just kids, yes a few will be pros, but the lot of them are just college kids.

Amen! I'll take high energy over polished edges any day of the week. That's why I love college hockey and am only somewhat taken in by the NHL.

quote]
That's why I love college hockey and am only somewhat taken in by the NHL.[/quote]

THis may scare you, but on this we agree.

evilnaturedrobot

DILLIGAF
There is no doubt that Cornell faces recruiting challenges that the national powerhouses do not and that in prior years Schafer has gotten to the NCAA tourney, but what explains this season? A very good, if not exceptionally talented freshman class presumably with veteran leadership and the team underachieved and often brought bad hockey to a new level.

how did this team underachieve? The expectation was that they would finish around fourth in the ECAC and have an up and down year. The team did, more or less, what we all expected it to do.

For most people heading into this season, that was their expectation. So in a way this team just achieved. What might be disappointing to people is that Cornell fans have been spoiled recently by OVER-achieving teams.

oceanst41
For most people heading into this season, that was their expectation. So in a way this team just achieved. What might be disappointing to people is that Cornell fans have been spoiled recently by OVER-achieving teams.

Have we really over-achieved much in the past few years? I'd say we've been spoiled by very good teams that played pretty well to their expectations.

KeithK

oceanst41
For most people heading into this season, that was their expectation. So in a way this team just achieved. What might be disappointing to people is that Cornell fans have been spoiled recently by OVER-achieving teams.

Have we really over-achieved much in the past few years? I'd say we've been spoiled by very good teams that played pretty well to their expectations.

I think we overacheived in 2006. Hell of a ride, though.

Just noticed one of Brown's recruits:

Sean Connauton-RD 6'2 200 57-8-20-28-222

Should fit right in with the rest of the hacks over there.

KeithK

oceanst41
For most people heading into this season, that was their expectation. So in a way this team just achieved. What might be disappointing to people is that Cornell fans have been spoiled recently by OVER-achieving teams.

Have we really over-achieved much in the past few years? I'd say we've been spoiled by very good teams that played pretty well to their expectations.

Maybe that came out wrong, but I still think there was a decent amount of over-achieving. That may be a result of the players we had, not all blue-chippers that played well together and accomplished great things.

Just take a look at Iggulden, who became quite an important goal scorer, or McKee, who went from a stop-gap goalie to Hobey finalist. Both did it with hard work and determination to improve. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples from the last few years, but those two really stick out in my mind.

Besides every team needs character guys to make a good playoff team, just ask Minnesota.

ugarte

KeithK

oceanst41
For most people heading into this season, that was their expectation. So in a way this team just achieved. What might be disappointing to people is that Cornell fans have been spoiled recently by OVER-achieving teams.

Have we really over-achieved much in the past few years? I'd say we've been spoiled by very good teams that played pretty well to their expectations.

I think we overacheived in 2006. Hell of a ride, though.

Did we really? Wasn't Moulson talking about the national championship as a goal for the season (and while it seemed less than likely we weren't snickering). Maybe our expectations were too high in hindsight, but I don't think we over acheived relative to them.

oceanst41
Just take a look at Iggulden, who became quite an important goal scorer

But some of us here always knew he could score goals, right Age?

My work here is done.

CowbellGuy
Just noticed one of Brown's recruits:

Sean Connauton-RD 6'2 200 57-8-20-28-222

Should fit right in with the rest of the hacks over there.

But everyone knows its entirely the refs fault who obviously have it out for Brown every single game ever.

DeltaOne81

CowbellGuy
Just noticed one of Brown's recruits:

Sean Connauton-RD 6'2 200 57-8-20-28-222

Should fit right in with the rest of the hacks over there.

But everyone knows its entirely the refs fault who obviously have it out for Brown every single game ever.

Uh oh, the Brown radio guys have hacked Fred's account.

oceanst41
Besides every team needs character guys to make a good playoff team, just ask Minnesota.

Fucking Barry Tallackson.

Josh '99
Fucking Barry Tallackson.

New, from Spike Jonze, director of "Being John Malkovich."