ECAC playoffs - Cornell 4th, first round bye

The seeding for the playoffs are, I believe [edit fixing Nos. 8-9-10, outcomes of 1997 and 1998 ECAC playoffs]:

1 SLU bye 
2 Clarkson bye 
3 Dartmouth bye 
4 Cornell bye  
5 Quinnipiac hosts Union first round 
6 Princeton host Brown 
7 Harvard hosts Yale  (I think Harvard lost a tiebraker for sixth)
8 Colgate hosts RPI 
9 RPI 
10 Yale 
11 Brown 
12 Union

Top four get byes. Next weekend: 5 hosts 12, 6 hosts 11, etcetera. The following weekend, best 2 of 3 series at SLU, Clarkson, Dartmouth, and Cornell. SLU plays the lowest seeded survivor, which would be Colgate if all happens according to seeding (seldom does) and Cornell would host Quinnipiac. In round two, the top seed gets the lowest seeded survivor, second second gets second lowest survivor, etcetera. Cornell would get a dream rematch (bad dream?) at Lynah vs. the Cantabs of Harvard only if 5 Quinnipiac and 6 Princeton fold in the first round. I can't recall if the ECAC seminfinals are also reseeded so highest survivor plays lowest survivor, which if all follows plan, would mean Cornell vs. St. Lawrence Friday, March 16.

Cornell's history in the ECACs under Mike Schafer includes trips to Albany (or Lake Placid) and the ECAC final four all but three years. Cornell has played its opening round of the playoffs on the road I believe only in 1998 at RPI (won) and 1999 at Princeton (lost). Good summary page of Cornell's regular-season and post-season appearances are at [www.tbrw.info] I didn't realize it but Cornell has won two ECAC titles in each decade (plus three in the 1960s). It's not exactly evenly spaced, though: Four titles 1967-70, then 27 more years to collect the next four, then two more since.

YEAR  OUTCOME IN ECACs 
1996  1st (beat Harvard)
1997  1st (beat Clarkson. RichS weeps.) [<--edit fixing outcome and Rich's roller-coaster emotions]
1998  5th (lose to Princeton in play-in for semis) [edit fixed]
1999  Lose initial round at Princeton 
2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)
2001  2nd (lose 3-1 again to St. Lawrence)
2002  2nd (lose 4-3 to Harvard in two OTs)
2003  1st (beat Harvard 3-2 in OT)
2004  Choke! (lose 3-game quarterfinal series to Clarkson 1-5, 5-4, 5-1)
2005  1st (beat harvard 3-1)
2006  2nd (lose 6-2 Harvard)
2007  ? 

Colgate is 8, RPI is 9, Yale is 10...

in JTW I trust

Edit, new final standings:

1 SLU bye 
2 Clarkson bye 
3 Dartmouth bye 
4 Cornell bye  
5 Quinnipiac hosts Union first round 
6 Princeton host Brown 
7 Harvard hosts Yale 
8 Colgate hosts RPI 
9 RPI 
10 Yale 
11 Brown 
12 Union

And let me be the first to say that I'm glad we got the bye, but I'm not looking forward to the 2nd round match-up if the Q win.

DeltaOne81
but I'm not looking forward to the 2nd round match-up if the Q win.

Would you have preferred the same matchup but in Hamden?

Hi guys,

I'm thrilled if we do have the bye, but:

I'd like to know how we got the bye, as the USCHO story on yesterday's Quin-SLU stated:

"The Bobcats hold the tie breaker with Cornell, if they should happen to finish with the same amount of league points."

What is the order of tiebreaker?

Let's Go Big Red !

---Chief

From the CU hockey website prior to the final from Q.

Cornell will now await the final score of the Clarkson-Quinnipiac matchup on Saturday night. A win by the Knights would secure a first-round bye for the Big Red, while a Quinnipiac win or tie would leave Cornell as the fifth seed, playing a home series next weekend against Union, which finishes the league regular season in 12th place. Cornell went 1-0-1 against the Dutchmen on the year, winning 6-0, in Ithaca, N.Y., and tying 3-3 when the two teams met in Schenectady, N.Y.

If Clarkson wins, the tournament would shape up as follows:
#1 St. Lawrence
#2 Clarkson
#3 Dartmouth
#4 Cornell
#5 Quinnipiac hosts #12 Union
#6 Princeton hosts #11 Brown
#7 Harvard hosts #10 Yale
#8 Colgate hosts #9 Rensselaer

CAAB
"The Bobcats hold the tie breaker with Cornell, if they should happen to finish with the same amount of league points."

What is the order of tiebreaker?

Let's Go Big Red !

---Chief

The article is wrong.

The tiebreaks are:
Head to head
Record against top 4
Record against top 8
Head-to-head goal differential
Goal diff vs. top 4
Goal diff vs. top 8
Coin flip


The first is tied, the second is tied (although wouldn't have been had we tied any other way then by two losses each this weekend), and we won on the third.

Its complex enough that I can easily see an article getting it wrong, but they did.

I hope that posting was right, because I fear Q has the tie-breaker.

We beat them 2-0
They beat us 5-2
They went 0-2 vs. SLU, we went 0-2
They went 1-1 vs. CUknights, we were 1-0-1
They went 0-1-1 vs. DU, we went 0-2

Both have 5 pts against the top three. What's the next tie break? (because the've got us by a 3 goal differential)

---Chief

billhoward

YEAR  OUTCOME IN ECACs 
1996  1st (beat Harvard)
1997  2nd (lose to Clarkson. RichS rejoices.) 

Huh? Unless my memory is failing (and judging by the ECAC title list on the side, it's not...)

We beat Clarkson in '97 for the ECAC title.

OK, that's a relief, Thanks DeltaOne81 !

I'm VERY disappointed with this team thus far this season.

---- Chief

billhoward

Cornell's history in the ECACs under Mike Schafer includes trips to Albany (or Lake Placid) and the ECAC final four all but two years. Cornell has played its opening round of the playoffs on the road only in 1998 at RPI (won) and 1999 at Princeton (lost).

YEAR  OUTCOME IN ECACs 
1996  1st (beat Harvard)
1997  2nd (lose to Clarkson. RichS rejoices.) 
1998  3rd (lose to Princeton in semis)
1999  Lose initial round at Princeton 
2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)
2001  2nd (lose 3-1 again to St. Lawrence)
2002  2nd (lose 4-3 to Harvard in two OTs)
2003  1st (beat Harvard 3-2 in OT)
2004  Choke! (lose 3-game quarterfinal series to Clarkson 1-5, 5-4, 5-1_ 
2005  1st (beat harvard 3-1)
2006  2nd (lose 6-2 Harvard)
2007  ? 

Rich S may rejoice only in that your memory and/or computer source is wrong.

From tbrw:

March 15, 1997
ECAC Championship Game
Lake Placid, NY

Cornell Big Red (20-8-5) 1 1 0 - 2
Clarkson Golden Knights ( - - ) 0 0 1 - 1

1 17:00 Cor pp Dailey 5 (Auger, Tymchyshyn)
2 9:11 Cor pp S. Wilson
3 (Tymchyshyn, Stienstra)3 13:18 Clk Houle (Clark, Ollila)

Cor W Elliott 10 - 10 - 11 31 x 32
Clk L Murphy 8 - 6 - 2 16 x 18

JordanCS - You are CORRECT !!!!

I think '97 was the Knaughts "Todd White" god year and we whipped them good with a suffocating "D" up in Lake Placid - after all their talk -- hah !

-- Chief

Way to go with the detailed recap, Marty !

Note only 18 Knaught shots - Our "D" was an iron blanket ! And we were supposed to be at a disadvantage on the "Big Sheet" up there... Oh PLEASE!!!

Equally interesting is that past 5 tourneys in Alb have alt. Harvard-Cornell.

--- Chief

While the weekend was a bummer on the ice, the end result wasn't too bad. Playing the 5th or 6th seed in this year of parity seems largely irrelevant; if we're fortunate enough to get back to Albany, there is probably a bit of a disadvantage if we have to play SLUt as opposed to Clarkson (given our results this year against those teams), but that's an issue I hope we are discussing in two weeks

First things first; looking at the match-ups, I don't see any first round upsets. I think Yale takes Harvard to 3 games, but the other series are sweeps.

So, that sets up Q in the quarters. Honestly, do any of us have a feel as to which Cornell team shows up? It's hard to imagine anything other than a 3-game series, probably one comfortable win for each team with one nailbiter. About the only thing that seems certain is that there will be a lot of griping about Cornell's special teams

The only positive thing to say is that the mighty Quinn is in the midst of their own scoring drought and if Union can spark for more than one game, they may very well pull the upset. Stranger things have happened this year.

--Chief

CAAB
I hope that posting was right, because I fear Q has the tie-breaker.

We beat them 2-0
They beat us 5-2
They went 0-2 vs. SLU, we went 0-2
They went 1-1 vs. CUknights, we were 1-0-1
They went 0-1-1 vs. DU, we went 0-2

Both have 5 pts against the top three. What's the next tie break? (because the've got us by a 3 goal differential)

As explained elsewhere, the next tiebreaker is record vs top 8, but there's a tie for 8th place which requires record vs top 4. The bottom line is that the situation gets resolved by using record vs top 9, including Colgate and RPI, and we win that.

billhoward
YEAR OUTCOME IN ECACs
1996 1st (beat Harvard)
1997 1st (beat Clarkson. RichS weeps.) [<--edit fixing outcome and Rich's roller-coaster emotions]

To be fair, 1997 predated the Age run E-Lynah and therefore as many know it also predates RichS' interest in college hockey - which was all but non-existent before his being allowed on this forum.

I realize we should all be kind to RichS for at least the rest of the weekend. We couldn't have backed into opening-round-of-play home ice for every year save one (or two?) in the Schafer era had it not been for the Golden Knights. Rich, this Bud's for you.

Barring upsets, Harvard's on a path toward knocking out Clarkson in the quarters. I'd rather see them take their shot at Dartmouth, but that would require either Quinnipiac or Princeton being upset next weekend.

billhoward
Cornell's history in the ECACs under Mike Schafer includes trips to Albany (or Lake Placid) and the ECAC final four all but two years.

YEAR  OUTCOME IN ECACs 
1996  1st (beat Harvard)
1997  1st (beat Clarkson. RichS weeps.) [<--edit fixing outcome and Rich's roller-coaster emotions]
1998  3rd (lose to Princeton in semis)

In addition to the already pointed out error in your original 1997 "2nd," we did not finish 3rd in 1998 - we finished 5th by losing the "Play-In Game" to Princeton. This is back when 10 of the 12 conference teams went to the playoffs, and #3 RPI hosted us as the #8 seed; we upset them in three and arrived in Placid as the reseeded #5, having to play #4 Princeton for the last spot in the semis. They beat us 6-2, then proceeded to win the semis and finals for their first-ever ECAC tourney championship. Thus we have reached the final four all but three years of the Schafer era thus far.

billhoward
I realize we should all be kind to RichS for at least the rest of the weekend. We couldn't have backed into opening-round-of-play home ice for every year save one (or two?) in the Schafer era had it not been for the Golden Knights. Rich, this Bud's for you.

I made a deal with the devil so to speak before the Yale at RIP game. I now owe a 750ml bottle of Belgian Ale to a Clarkson alum and friend. So Jay, this Corsendonk's for you!

Ari, why did you take me away before the end of the game tonight? If you're gonna skip out of a game early, let it be for some rhythm lessons, which you badly need after that atrocious & terrible display of cowbell playing in John Harvard's before the game?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Hey Ari, the cowbell called, and it said: [www.webmetronome.com]

PS: Did anyone else hear the cowbell Friday night in Hanover? I didn't think so...

marty

billhoward
YEAR OUTCOME IN ECACs
1996 1st (beat Harvard)
1997 1st (beat Clarkson. RichS weeps.) [<--edit fixing outcome and Rich's roller-coaster emotions]

To be fair, 1997 predated the Age run E-Lynah and therefore as many know it also predates RichS' interest in college hockey - which was all but non-existent before his being allowed on this forum.

You're only slightly off target.

I became a fan of college hockey in '69.

Thanks for the Bud offer Bill but I can't stand the stuff. I did however, enjoy a couple of other cold ones tonight at a Clarkson alumni gathering here in NJ to watch the Tech-Q game on ESPN-U.

Maybe you can buy me a "thank-you" soda in Albany (no beer sold at the ECACs, if I recall correctly).

peterg
From the CU hockey website prior to the final from Q.
Cornell will now await the final score of the Clarkson-Quinnipiac matchup on Saturday night. A win by the Knights would secure a first-round bye for the Big Red, while a Quinnipiac win or tie would leave Cornell as the fifth seed, playing a home series next weekend against Union, which finishes the league regular season in 12th place.

The 'Q' web site makes it official, too:
"Bobcats will host Union College in first-round ECACHL playoff series on Friday night."

Rich S
Maybe you can buy me a "thank-you" soda in Albany (no beer sold at the ECACs, if I recall correctly).

Rich, best of luck to the Golden Knights in their quarterfinal in two weeks. Albany ought to be really interesting this year.

Rich S
Maybe you can buy me a "thank-you" soda in Albany (no beer sold at the ECACs, if I recall correctly).

I'll take you up on that, since if Cornell gets there it will be in very large measure due to to-Knight's win against Q (doubly impressive, as Q was fighting to the death and Clarkson could have easily coasted).

theforgottencowbell
Ari, why did you take me away before the end of the game tonight? If you're gonna skip out of a game early, let it be for some rhythm lessons, which you badly need after that atrocious & terrible display of cowbell playing in John Harvard's before the game?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Hey Ari, the cowbell called, and it said: [www.webmetronome.com]

PS: Did anyone else hear the cowbell Friday night in Hanover? I didn't think so...

Did you really need the second screenname? Couldn't you just have posted as Facetimer?

CAAB
JordanCS - You are CORRECT !!!!

I think '97 was the Knaughts "Todd White" god year and we whipped them good with a suffocating "D" up in Lake Placid - after all their talk -- hah !

-- Chief

I remember that game just a little differently. I think we iced the puck about 7,000 times in the 3rd period while hanging on by our fingernails...

Trotsky

Rich S
Maybe you can buy me a "thank-you" soda in Albany (no beer sold at the ECACs, if I recall correctly).

I'll take you up on that, since if Cornell gets there it will be in very large measure due to to-Knight's win against Q (doubly impressive, as Q was fighting to the death and Clarkson could have easily coasted).

If you're really grateful, you'll sneak in some rum to add to that soda, like those Minnesota guys Josh and Rich met at the regionals a couple of years ago.

That's insulting to forgotten cowbells everywhere.

It will have to be Friday.

I foolishly, blindly, or whatever...purchased half a dozen tix for us to hear Roger McGuinn in concert on Saturday night. My lame excuse is that I bought them in early October, many weeks before I looked at the playoff schedule.

Virtually no chance that Tech was gonna coast last night after they failed to show up on Friday at Princeton. The coaches were out of the locker room at Baker in about 2 or 3 minutes after the game and I have a orewtty good idea what that means. They were pretty tight-lipped with us.

I'd say the team had plenty to think about on the ride from Princeton to Hamden, CT. They were like a different team last night.

That said, kudos to the Tigers. They played like a team possessed and seemingly did so again yesterday afternoon vs Slu. Their reward is a home series next weekend. I may take a ride down to catch a game. Will be interesting to see if Gadowsky can keep them fired up for another weekend. My bet is he can.

billhoward

2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)

Another mistake here, unfortunately. In 2000, Cornell actually finished 4th in the ECAC Tournament. At Lake Placid that year, as the 4th seed, Cornell beat Clarkson in the play-in game, then lost to St. Lawrence in the semifinal, and then finally lost to Colgate in the consolation game.

Will

billhoward

2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)

Another mistake here, unfortunately. In 2000, Cornell actually finished 4th in the ECAC Tournament. At Lake Placid that year, as the 4th seed, Cornell beat Clarkson in the play-in game, then lost to St. Lawrence in the semifinal, and then finally lost to Colgate in the consolation game.

Will just beat me to it. Bill, your accuracy is horrible. You got 3 completely wrong results out of 11 tournaments listed, (including taking away one of our Championships!) which works out to a 72.7% success rate. That's well below Cornell's Penalty Kill (was it really 79.3%??)..actually dead last in the nation (UAH @ 76.5%) and buried below the worst Save % in the nation (86.4%).

Take a seat next to DiLeo.

Also wrong:

billhoward
Four titles 1967-70, then 27 more years to collect the next four, then two more since.

That adds up to 10 championships. Cornell won 5 from '71-'97, and a grand total of 11.

CAAB
JordanCS - You are CORRECT !!!!

I think '97 was the Knaughts "Todd White" god year and we whipped them good with a suffocating "D" up in Lake Placid - after all their talk -- hah !

-- Chief

You mean Hobey Cherrypicker?

Will

billhoward

2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)

Another mistake here, unfortunately. In 2000, Cornell actually finished 4th in the ECAC Tournament. At Lake Placid that year, as the 4th seed, Cornell beat Clarkson in the play-in game, then lost to St. Lawrence in the semifinal, and then finally lost to Colgate in the consolation game.

While I'm happy to pile on Bill's woeful lack of accuracy, I'd like to think the consy didn't exist. It was like a freebie for getting Colgate into the NCAAs. Chris Gartman in net? Bâby in a suit...no one cared.
While Cornell did go 0-3 against 'Gate that year, at least we got Shep Harder a DQ in one of the games.

Chris '03

Will

billhoward

2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)

Another mistake here, unfortunately. In 2000, Cornell actually finished 4th in the ECAC Tournament. At Lake Placid that year, as the 4th seed, Cornell beat Clarkson in the play-in game, then lost to St. Lawrence in the semifinal, and then finally lost to Colgate in the consolation game.

While I'm happy to pile on Bill's woeful lack of accuracy, I'd like to think the consy didn't exist. It was like a freebie for getting Colgate into the NCAAs. Chris Gartman in net? Bâby in a suit...no one cared.

Not to mention it was Mike Noeth's swan song.

RichH

Will

billhoward

2000  2nd (lose 3-2 in OT to St. Lawrence)

Another mistake here, unfortunately. In 2000, Cornell actually finished 4th in the ECAC Tournament. At Lake Placid that year, as the 4th seed, Cornell beat Clarkson in the play-in game, then lost to St. Lawrence in the semifinal, and then finally lost to Colgate in the consolation game.

Will just beat me to it. Bill, your accuracy is horrible. You got 3 completely wrong results out of 11 tournaments listed, (including taking away one of our Championships!) which works out to a 72.7% success rate. That's well below Cornell's Penalty Kill (was it really 79.3%??)..actually dead last in the nation (UAH @ 76.5%) and buried below the worst Save % in the nation (86.4%).

Take a seat next to DiLeo.

Also wrong:

billhoward
Four titles 1967-70, then 27 more years to collect the next four, then two more since.

That adds up to 10 championships. Cornell won 5 from '71-'97, and a grand total of 11.

Come on, guys, let's not pile on Bill too badly here. After all, the point isn't that his math or his recollection of the results were inaccurate - the point is that his inaccurate math and recollection completely invalidate his argument.

RichH
Take a seat next to DiLeo.

Hey, this is an unfair comparison. For DeLeo.

Next time I'll sleep in longer Sunday morning.

billhoward
Hey, this is an unfair comparison. For DeLeo.

<piling on> You spelled DiLeo's name wrong!! </piling on>