Cornell vs. Sacred Heart Postgame

So, Carefoot missed the game because he was attending his brother's wedding? What, they couldn't schedule it in June?

scoop85
So, Carefoot missed the game because he was attending his brother's wedding? What, they couldn't schedule it in June?

Must be a Canadian thing eh?

10 steps forward, 3000 steps back. Sacred Heart is not a bad team but Cornell didn't give them much of a fight. They just play this nonsense hockey along the boards and in the corners not even coming close to getting to the net.

I really don't know what it is Byron Bitz contributes. He isn't even a shadow of the player he was on the second half of last season and quite frankly isn't as much of a presence as he was as a freshman. Scott also struggled a lot tonight. The leadership was pretty much nonexistant.

The fourth line of Mugford-Kennedy-Scali is a great shutdown line and did a good job tonight but they played like 25 minutes and were out there regularly even after Cornell went down 2-1. Those guys aren't going to score much.

Seminoff puts that puck in the bench on the PK when he had the whole ice to clear it down and SHU scores the game winner off the next draw.

Davenport still isn't challenging enough, siting back in the net too much and that first goal was a direct result of that.

This team has been pretty brutal at home this season and has been similar to that 03-04 team that really struggled at home. Should SHU qualify for the NCAA's, this loss will be very costly.

These guys need to come and work every shift, every night. Too many guys are getting free passes because they are older. Schafer has ripped on the freshmen a good amount this year but they have been excellent in my opinion. How this team came out as flat as they did in the third period is really absurd. Only ECACHL games to go and they are in a good position so that is the good news.

Why Didnt Evan Salmela play?

it looked like cornell just didn;t want to play. Rather disappointing.

Romano looked great, Milo aswell.

Davenport doesn't look confident or comfortable in net.

Fontas played well, as did Greening. Sawada hit some people, but other than that was kinda worthless.

Bitz was useless.

Cornell made several mistakes that a better opponent would have put in the back of the net. same with sacred heart.

Dpperk29
it looked like cornell just didn;t want to play. Rather disappointing.

Romano looked great, Milo aswell.

Davenport doesn't look confident or comfortable in net.

Fontas played well, as did Greening. Sawada hit some people, but other than that was kinda worthless.

Bitz was useless.

Cornell made several mistakes that a better opponent would have put in the back of the net. same with sacred heart.

Sawada was the team's best player for a third straight game. If the guys on his line would go to the net, more would happen. Other than that, I agree with most of what you said.

I suppose that is a fair assessment of sawada. He did look good the more I think about it, it just wasn't magnified by his linemates play. Sawada was deffinatly the star of that line.

Doesn't a former Cornell player coach Sacred Heart? I wonder why we never schedule those guys. As far as I know, Cornell has never played Sacred Heart.

Kate and I finally saw our first game of the season, not exactly memorable, except I've seen all the Cornell losses to a given team we've lost to more than once.

Anyway, some thoughts:
Good:
-Brendan Nash: He was the best player on the ice tonight. He's exceptionally poised with the puck and logs a ton of ice time

-Seminoff-Nash Pairing: By far the top D pair. Should Schafer split them up?

-Sawada: He played with more intensity than anybody else on the team tonight. He made an excellent play to get a shot off after stealing the puck from a back peddling SH D-man in the 3rd period, and nearly turned the game around single handedly.

Bad:
No specific players, but some things that Cornell should do better:

- Players were standing still on the ice. This is unacceptable, players are taught to keep their feet moving at all times. A hockey player standing still cannot act fast enough and is an easy player to defend against.

- Players watching shots after they are released from the opposition. Too many times tonight SH would shoot and Cornell players would turn and look back at the goalie almost saying "I hope he stops it." Instead the players should be moving to the net and corners expecting the goalie to stop it and positioning for the rebounds.

These negatives seem so basic, it was hard to understand why we struggled with them tonight.

ugarte
Doesn't a former Cornell player coach Sacred Heart? I wonder why we never schedule those guys. As far as I know, Cornell has never played Sacred Heart.

Yes, Shaun Hannah '94, and we've played them twice at home. Not trying to be an **shole or anything, but these things are very easy to look up before posting.

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Doesn't a former Cornell player coach Sacred Heart? I wonder why we never schedule those guys. As far as I know, Cornell has never played Sacred Heart.

Yes, Shaun Hannah '94, and we've played them twice at home. Not trying to be an **shole or anything, but these things are very easy to look up before posting.

During the game, I was wondering how long it would take before someone would mention how it never happened.

calgARI '07
I really don't know what it is Byron Bitz contributes. He isn't even a shadow of the player he was on the second half of last season and quite frankly isn't as much of a presence as he was as a freshman.[/Q]I don't know , but I thought he played well. He controlled the puck when he had it, did a good job in the corners, and was double shifted at times. I don't think you can blame him.

[Q]Seminoff puts that puck in the bench on the PK when he had the whole ice to clear it down and SHU scores the game winner off the next draw.[/Q]True but it's not that uncommon for a clearing pass on the PK to get the bench. Not what you want but the problem was our play on the PK after that, we looked like we were waiting for it to be over.[/Q]
[Q]How this team came out as flat as they did in the third period is really absurd.

Maybe, but we did get 13 SOG in that period.


We skated 8 Freshman, 6 Sophs, 4 Juniors, and 2 Seniors (If I can count right at 2:30 AM) and one senior was McLeod, one junior was Fontas. So effectively we had 4 upperclassmen out of 20 players. I think this team is doing well compared to what I expected when the year started. We will hopefully get a top 4 seed, and that's all I could have expected.

Jim Hyla
I don't know , but I thought he played well. He controlled the puck when he had it, did a good job in the corners, and was double shifted at times. I don't think you can blame him.

Agreed completely. There were several times in the second period where, on the netcast at least, it appeared that Bitz was the *only* player on the ice. He checked SHU players off the puck in their own zone twice on the same shift, the first time picking up the puck himself (nobody there to help him) and the second time leaving the puck perfectly positioned in the slot (nobody there to pick it up). Both these instances were when Cornell had just surrendered the puck in front, so there was no reason for the CU forwards not to be pressuring SHU trying to get the puck back. I'm really surprised to hear Bitz faulted, tonight.

Bitz is the captain of the team and should be one of if not their best players. He was dominated games in the second half of last season. I don't think he has dominated even one game this season. The team is losing to Sacred Heart on home ice and he is talking to the refs for the majority of the third period. This team doesn't play with enough emotion or conviction particularly on home ice. The leaders of the team need to set the tone and they failed to do that tonight. There were a dozen times tonight where Sawada had the puck in the corner and Bitz was just standing next to him. I think Bitz has played well defensively and hasn't been a liability but the guy hasn't come close to elevating his game during a season where he absolutely needs to. He has been a big part of the powerplay struggles as well. If he is the captain, he needs to do more than just control the puck at times and talk to the refs. He needs play with purpose every shift and make an impact every shift. Doing a good job in the corners and controlling the puck is really nice if you're a third line center. But Bitz's job is to do a lot more than that. If he isn't a rara-type leader that's fine. He still needs throw his weight around a lot more than he does for a 6'4 center. He needs to drive to the net a lot more. He needs to take defensemen to the outside more. He needs to shot the puck more. He needs to mix it up more after the whistle.

The youth of this team has not been the problem.

So, the refereeing was a nice change. Almost no calls. (Not saying I agreed with all the non-calls or all the calls). Just nice to have a lot of 5x5 play and a flowing game (despite the direction it flowed).

Binda is not an ECAC ref, true? He was one of the Estero Refs (I believe) and belongs to Hockey East?

Whatever, it was a nice breather from some of the penalty-fests we've had this year.

CK

CKinsland
So, the refereeing was a nice change. Almost no calls. (Not saying I agreed with all the non-calls or all the calls). Just nice to have a lot of 5x5 play and a flowing game (despite the direction it flowed).

Binda is not an ECAC ref, true? He was one of the Estero Refs (I believe) and belongs to Hockey East?

Whatever, it was a nice breather from some of the penalty-fests we've had this year.

CK

I think he is an ECAC ref though one we have never seen at Lynah. When they announced the refs at each game, the PA guys said, "From the ECAC..." before. It was certainly a nice change though for sure.

calgARI '07
Should SHU qualify for the NCAA's, this loss will be very costly.

Not really. Winning an autobid no longer makes you a TUC for selection criteria purposes.

jtwcornell91
Not really. Winning an autobid no longer makes you a TUC for selection criteria purposes.

A change that was long overdue. Now if we could just get rid of the TUC "cliff"...

calgARI '07
Bitz is the captain of the team and should be one of if not their best players.

I disagree. As captain, he doesn't have to be the best player to be a leader, which is his job on and off the ice.

Also, I doubt Bitz spends any time talking to the ref without being told by Schafer. Schafer sent him out as the 6th skater during stopages in the third period last night to speak to the ref. Schafer also spent several minutes across the ice talking with the ref after the game, he was clearly not happy about something last night.

For reference: Sacred Heart might make a TUC even without the conf championship -

Overall Record: 12-4-4 (.700)
Atlantic Hockey: 9-2-4, 22 points
Home: 6-0-1 — Away: 6-4-3 — Neutral: 0-0-0

They impressed me last night.

Mcleod was playing in Evan S.'s 6th D'man slot - Our team Defense was not up to Cornell's historical standards... but given number of more in-experienced players in the game I believe it will improve. We were a bit off on maybe a dozen or more key passes 2-3 feet ahead or behind the point we wanted and seemed a tad rusty - ECACHL games now - so praying we pick it up and imrprove throughout rest of league play.
Go Big RED!

CKinsland
So, the refereeing was a nice change. Almost no calls. (Not saying I agreed with all the non-calls or all the calls). Just nice to have a lot of 5x5 play and a flowing game (despite the direction it flowed).

Binda is not an ECAC ref, true? He was one of the Estero Refs (I believe) and belongs to Hockey East?

Whatever, it was a nice breather from some of the penalty-fests we've had this year.

CK

There have been 9 ECAC refs in conference games this year:

The Hansens, Scott and Dave
The Murphys, Frank and John
Binda
Dell
Feola
McDonald
Riley

I just remembered something else.

does anyone else think that cornell got robbed of a goal by the refs in the third period? I cant rememeber who shot it, but it came from mid circle on the section 0 side and looked like it went top right corner in and out. Could have hit the post/crossbar but it didn't make a sound. I couldn't really tell from where I was in B, but I would be interested to know if anyone else thought it found the net.

profudge
For reference: Sacred Heart might make a TUC even without the conf championship -

Overall Record: 12-4-4 (.700)
Atlantic Hockey: 9-2-4, 22 points
Home: 6-0-1 — Away: 6-4-3 — Neutral: 0-0-0

More to the point, they're currently about #22 in RPI:
[www.collegehockeynews.com]
[slack.net]

A few thoughts from last night...

-that was a very lame crowd

-For the first time all season Krueger and Davenport were not paired together for even a single shift.

-Sacred Heart's top line was on the ice for almost every other shift. And Schafer had the Kennedy line out there every time they were on the ice.

-Sawada probably recorded double digit hits last night.

-I thought Fontas played well, but couldn't keep up with his line (Romano, Scott). I think he'll be valuable in the future in a checking role.

-the Greening-Gallagher-Milo line saw the least amount of ice time. I noticed Greening whenever he was out there and would have liked to see him get some more time on another shift, perhaps on the top line.

-I agree with Ari's comments re: Bitz. He's trying, but he isn't elevating his game. If Byron Bitz circa early 2006 was on a line with Sawada last night they would have netted a couple of goals.

-This team has a lot of trouble getting up for games they are supposed to win. The team coasted from warmups till the end of the 3rd.

Dpperk29
I just remembered something else.

does anyone else think that cornell got robbed of a goal by the refs in the third period? I cant rememeber who shot it, but it came from mid circle on the section 0 side and looked like it went top right corner in and out. Could have hit the post/crossbar but it didn't make a sound. I couldn't really tell from where I was in B, but I would be interested to know if anyone else thought it found the net.

You're right...Cornell was robbed. I saw the puck hit the net right behind the left goalpost...Not that it means anything, but the red light went on, as well.

redhair34
-Sacred Heart's top line was on the ice for almost every other shift. And Schafer had the Kennedy line out there every time they were on the ice.

The euphonious Bear Trapp is one helluva hockey player.

I'm not sure what has been more painful the past few days: getting four wisdom teeth out or listening to us lose to Sacred Heart at home last night.

Looking forward to some strong conference wins down the stretch, starting with the north country trip next weekend.

Maybe Trapp has a younger brother Deer or Rabbit who also plays hockey.

JDeafv

calgARI '07
Bitz is the captain of the team and should be one of if not their best players.

I disagree. As captain, he doesn't have to be the best player to be a leader, which is his job on and off the ice.

Also, I doubt Bitz spends any time talking to the ref without being told by Schafer. Schafer sent him out as the 6th skater during stopages in the third period last night to speak to the ref. Schafer also spent several minutes across the ice talking with the ref after the game, he was clearly not happy about something last night.

Regardless, Bitz isn't playing anywhere near his best hockey. He was a dominant player in the second half of last season and hasn't been anywhere close so far this year.

With regard to the officiating, I don't understand what Schafer's problem was. He yells at the refs a lot and it happens a lot in games where his team doesn't show up.

calgARI '07

With regard to the officiating, I don't understand what Schafer's problem was. He yells at the refs a lot and it happens a lot in games where his team doesn't show up.

he's been taking lessons from Bob Gaudet

He has a cousin named Shutyer

[db.elynah.com]

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Doesn't a former Cornell player coach Sacred Heart? I wonder why we never schedule those guys. As far as I know, Cornell has never played Sacred Heart.

Yes, Shaun Hannah '94, and we've played them twice at home. Not trying to be an **shole or anything, but these things are very easy to look up before posting.

Guess you were a little too subtle on that one, u.

Beeeej

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Doesn't a former Cornell player coach Sacred Heart? I wonder why we never schedule those guys. As far as I know, Cornell has never played Sacred Heart.

Yes, Shaun Hannah '94, and we've played them twice at home. Not trying to be an **shole or anything, but these things are very easy to look up before posting.

Guess you were a little too subtle on that one, u.

Nope. Jim was.

Scott was every bit as absent as Bitz or moreso. His usual knack of winning battles for the puck in the corners and in traffic (despite being obviously outsized) was not there. When he wins those loose pucks and curls off the boards it generates space and offense for his line. It was not happening Saturday. His usual ability to find the open man was also below par - maybe partly due to fewer people being open - but some of the other lines were getting better looks for the open guy even if they had trouble handling the puck or converting.
Seems all too often the only guys we are getting open for a shot are on the blue line. I think tonight I saw three players below the goal line in the offensive zone more than perhaps ever. Tough to score from there. Milo and Seminoff were two players most consistently providing effort to spark the offense.

All of us agree...In Florida Bitz did nothing, all year he does not shoot, pass even HIT, the biggest player on the team. He plays great in the corner. . A Montreal Canadian Scout was at the game and stood right behind us. We asked him between the 3rd period what he thought of our team. These are his comments. They seem to make alot of sense.
The team needs to start moving the puck better. Get some odd man rushes.
Sawada, Scott and Romano are the only three players who seem to be playing and can create plays with speed and skill, they can beat one two three players by themselves. They should be playing together because they are similar stlyes plus they are all really smart and have good hockey instinct. They would be able to move the puck effectively and put some in the net. He also liked Milo, because he showed agrressivness and speed. This is coming from a Professional, we are just passing this along to the troops. This is also the 5th time he has watched the team. We askek who he is interested in and would not comment.

Dpperk29
I just remembered something else.

does anyone else think that cornell got robbed of a goal by the refs in the third period? I cant rememeber who shot it, but it came from mid circle on the section 0 side and looked like it went top right corner in and out. Could have hit the post/crossbar but it didn't make a sound. I couldn't really tell from where I was in B, but I would be interested to know if anyone else thought it found the net.

Apparently Mike agrees. From today's Ithaca Journal: “We hit crossbars. We had a goal that we thought was in (Tony Romano appeared to score early in the third period, and the goal light went on, but Binda, who was positioned on the line, ruled the puck did not cross the line)."

plrd78
Sawada, Scott and Romano are the only three players who seem to be playing and can create plays with speed and skill, they can beat one two three players by themselves. They should be playing together because they are similar stlyes plus they are all really smart and have good hockey instinct. They would be able to move the puck effectively and put some in the net.

though this is a good theory... it clumps all your offense together, making it easier for a team with only one good lockdown line to stop it

Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

calgARI '07
Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I think it's always ridiculous and unacceptable. I've often wondered if Schafer has a standard "this is no pushover, you need to play like it's the national championship game" speech for before games like these, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't.

Beeeej

calgARI '07
Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I think it's always ridiculous and unacceptable. I've often wondered if Schafer has a standard "this is no pushover, you need to play like it's the national championship game" speech for before games like these, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't.

You would think after losing to Wayne State, no speech would be necessary.

calgARI '07

Beeeej

calgARI '07
Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I think it's always ridiculous and unacceptable. I've often wondered if Schafer has a standard "this is no pushover, you need to play like it's the national championship game" speech for before games like these, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't.

You would think after losing to Wayne State, no speech would be necessary.

Isn't assuming that the only reason you lost to a 11-4-4 team was your own lack of preparation the same error as assuming an 11-4-4 team is a pushover?

There are, in fact, two teams on the ice, not one team in either "normal" or "unacceptable" mode.

calgARI '07

Beeeej

calgARI '07
Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I think it's always ridiculous and unacceptable. I've often wondered if Schafer has a standard "this is no pushover, you need to play like it's the national championship game" speech for before games like these, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't.

You would think after losing to Wayne State, no speech would be necessary.

During Schafer's tenure Cornell has lost a bunch of games against teams that we really should beat. There have also been a number of stretches where we've seemed to play down to the level of weaker opponents. Given this, maybe motivating his team to play its best against weak teams is just not Schafer's strength as a coach. If so, it's not something to comdemn him for. No coach is going to be perfect in all aspects. I'm quite happy with the overall picture.

While losing to Sacred Heart sucks (big time), isn't this kind of what we expected from this team in October? A young team with lots of talent that is inconsistent. The important thing is how the team reacts to these set backs, both in the short and long term.

I agree with the comment about playing down (or up) to the level of our opponents. It seemed like we played the same way last year, when we played down to the level of opponents like Niagara and up to the level of opponents like CC and Wisconsin. This year, we're playing down to the level of Wayne State and Sacred Heart and up to the level of UNH. It's frustrating that while we can always seem to play at a high enough level to compete with any team on the schedule, we can never seem to play well enough to dominate the teams we should defeat handily. It's been great to see exciting wins over Sucks and UNH this year, but you question why we keep losing to Sacred Heart and Wayne State.

KeithK
During Schafer's tenure Cornell has lost a bunch of games against teams that we really should beat. There have also been a number of stretches where we've seemed to play down to the level of weaker opponents. Given this, maybe motivating his team to play its best against weak teams is just not Schafer's strength as a coach. If so, it's not something to comdemn him for. No coach is going to be perfect in all aspects. I'm quite happy with the overall picture.

Me too, and I don't think a purely statistical analysis of Schafer's tenure would bear out the hypothesis that his teams have lost to weaker opponents any more regularly than one would expect from such a quality program.

Here is a table summarizing Cornell's head-to-head performance against the ECAC during Schafer's tenure (and for some years prior to it), sorted by the opponent's final ECAC placement: [www.tbrw.info]

A team that underperformed against poor teams would have a surprising amount of crimson (losses) against teams well below their slot in the standings.

Let's take an arbitrary figure of > 4 places below in the standings (one third of the league). Here are Schafer's records against "teams we should beat":

1996: 6-0-2
1997: 9-1-2
1998: 0-0-0
1999: 2-0-0
2000: 4-1-1
2001: 6-1-1
2002: 12-0-2
2003: 13-1-0
2004: 9-1-2
2005: 14-0-0
2006: 7-2-1

Total record: 82-7-11 .875
Current squad: 30-3-3 .875


If the figure is > 6 teams (half the league), here is Cornell's record:

1996: 3-0-1
1997: 5-1-2
1998: 0-0-0
1999: 0-0-0
2000: 1-0-1
2001: 3-0-1
2002: 8-0-2
2003: 9-1-0
2004: 7-0-1
2005: 10-0-0
2006: 5-0-1

Total record: 51-2-9 .895
Current squad: 22-0-2 .958

Now it is possible that the "overconfidence effect" is only displayed in NC games. But I think from the standpoint of the hard evidence above, Schafer's teams have performed fine against weaker opponents, with very few let downs.

Trotsky

calgARI '07

Beeeej

calgARI '07
Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I think it's always ridiculous and unacceptable. I've often wondered if Schafer has a standard "this is no pushover, you need to play like it's the national championship game" speech for before games like these, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't.

You would think after losing to Wayne State, no speech would be necessary.

Isn't assuming that the only reason you lost to a 11-4-4 team was your own lack of preparation the same error as assuming an 11-4-4 team is a pushover?

There are, in fact, two teams on the ice, not one team in either "normal" or "unacceptable" mode.

No doubt about it but Cornell didn't play well and anywhere near the level they did a week ago. There is no disputing that. Doesn't and shouldn't matter what Sacred Heart did.

calgARI '07
Doesn't and shouldn't matter what Sacred Heart did.

Doesn't matter in what way?

It's true that Sacred Heart could play either crappy or well and Cornell could independently play crappy or well (although a good performance by an opponent will tend to make your team look worse).

But "we lost therefore we played crappy" isn't true. Look at the Harvard-Dartmouth weekend this year. The better team on the ice lost, both nights. Sometimes that happens.

If having an .800 team means we are going to have to put out Suicide Watch for you guys one night in five, then something is wrong with expectations.

Trotsky

calgARI '07
Doesn't and shouldn't matter what Sacred Heart did.

Doesn't matter in what way?

It's true that Sacred Heart could play either crappy or well and Cornell could independently play crappy or well (although a good performance by an opponent will tend to make your team look worse).

But "we lost therefore we played crappy" isn't true. Look at the Harvard-Dartmouth weekend this year. The better team on the ice lost, both nights. Sometimes that happens.

If having an .800 team means we are going to have to put out Suicide Watch for you guys one night in five, then something is wrong with expectations.

Cornell didn't play well on Saturday regardless of what Sacred Heart did. I don't think many in attendance would dispute that including Schafer. Who is on suicide watch? They played like shit and lost to a team they should have beaten. It happens.

calgARI '07

Beeeej

calgARI '07
Sawada says that he maybe they took Sacred Heart too lightly. Considering they were 11-4-4 heading into the game, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I think it's always ridiculous and unacceptable. I've often wondered if Schafer has a standard "this is no pushover, you need to play like it's the national championship game" speech for before games like these, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't.

You would think after losing to Wayne State, no speech would be necessary.

Quotes from last week's pregame story in the Journal:
[www.theithacajournal.com]

Byron Bitz
“Sacred Heart is a good team. We need to make sure we are ready to play. When it comes down to March, the (NCAA) selection process, you never know what wins are going to count. You have to win your non-conference games. We are not taking this one lightly at all.”

Mike Schafer
"This is a huge game for us...We need to come out and be very prepared. It is a huge game for us as far as national rankings and where we stand.”

I'm with Keith and Greg.

Cornell's OOC record brings to mind all the bitching last year about how horrible it was to have a such a weak OOC schedule. The fact that we aren't blowing these teams out justifies their place on our schedule, and certainly doesn't validate some fans' holier-than-thou "we should only be playing Minnesota and Denver each year" arguments.

Part of it, IMO, is that these "minor conference" teams are indeed getting remarkably better compared to 5-10 years ago. Giving the Sacred Hearts, RITs, and Niagaras of the hockey world regular experience with the Clarksons, Cornells, and BUs of the world is good for the game. A rising tide lifts all something something. And hey look...#2 Notre Dame fell to Robert Morris. We aren't the only ones.

I'd rather grow all programs to be quality opponents than to have the nation split into the haves and have-nots, as has happened with I-A football (Boise St. & Rutgers excepted).

Trotsky
Now it is possible that the "overconfidence effect" is only displayed in NC games. But I think from the standpoint of the hard evidence above, Schafer's teams have performed fine against weaker opponents, with very few let downs.

I haven't looked at the numbers, but I think Trotsky's informed swag that we've performed below standards chiefly vs. "weaker" non-conference opponents, especially in games over breaks, might be right on. I think Cornell, for a variety of reasons, is a team that thrives in highly charged situations. (See, Cornell University, unfathomably good playoff record) In these games, motivation is clearly the issue: no crowd, no history, little challenge. (See Union College, Schenectady, NY) To me, motivation in team sports arises from a complex interplay between coaches, captains, and fans. That the fans weren't there for SH is clear; given Schafer's teams' records vs. "weaker" opponents in the regular season, I doubt the coaches were "absent." To me, this seems like the captains' problem.

Who really knows about their individual styles, but we've had some strong captains in the past that were surely large factors in getting the team through rough patches. Some of them were "lead by example" types (Bâby), and others were probably more verbal (Chartrand). People say that Bitz isn't a vocal guy, and that probably is having an effect on the team right now if his play is off as much as everyone says. It's all well and good for a captain to "lead by example," but when the example isn't having a good game, neither will the team, especially when other motivating factors are absent.

Anyone completely horrified by a loss to Sacred Heart should also consider the possibility that we beat UNH on the day that they played their worst hockey of the year. Maybe we didn't play up to them; maybe they played down to us.

I think we have a borderline tournament team - I am reasonably content with that, given the age of our team and uncertainty in net. We can beat anyone if the circumstances are right but we also have to accept that we will lose to teams we should beat some nights. Probably far more often than anyone under 25 is used to. A loss isn't necessarily because of a lack of heart from the players or motivation from the coaches or Pizza Hut in Potsdam. Some nights one team flat outplays the other one and intangibles aren't factors. This is very likely to happen when the teams aren't nearly as far apart as some people think.

Trotsky
Now it is possible that the "overconfidence effect" is only displayed in NC games. But I think from the standpoint of the hard evidence above, Schafer's teams have performed fine against weaker opponents, with very few let downs.

I'd expect that any "overconfidence effect" would manifest itself more in non-conf games. It's a lot easier to get up for a team that you play twice every year. You know the opponent, maybe have a couple little grudges against them. You can directly see the effects of the game on the league standings (PWR impacts are much less concrete).

I was just throwing this out as a possibility though. The real answer may be what RichH mentions - the AH and CHA teams are simply better than they were a few years ago.

KeithK
The real answer may be what RichH mentions - the AH and CHA teams are simply better than they were a few years ago.

Should be easy to look up. Are the "minor conferences" trending up against the "majors" (and the ECAC, the only "mid-major" ) in inter-conference play?

BTW, if we are just going to lose to our unranked NC opponents anyway due to lack of intensity, then that speaks in support of the argument that we should schedule the previous season's Frozen Four in NC play every year. Even travel to them. Skating at Minnesota or Wisconsin ought to focus the mind. And that would be one hell of a roadie.

calgARI '07
No doubt about it but Cornell didn't play well and anywhere near the level they did a week ago. There is no disputing that. Doesn't and shouldn't matter what Sacred Heart did.

Not to complain, but Ari, you didn't play me well either, in either the 2nd or 3rd period.

Was it because you were out of practice from not having me last week in Estero?

theforgottencowbell

calgARI '07
No doubt about it but Cornell didn't play well and anywhere near the level they did a week ago. There is no disputing that. Doesn't and shouldn't matter what Sacred Heart did.

Not to complain, but Ari, you didn't play me well either, in either the 2nd or 3rd period.

Was it because you were out of practice from not having me last week in Estero?

I didn't play you in the third period. Nobody was clapping when I did in the second period. The lack of beat threw me off a bit but I still thought it was pretty good.

Trotsky
Even travel to them. Skating at Minnesota or Wisconsin ought to focus the mind. And that would be one hell of a roadie.

Been there, done those. Those are certainly both some pretty looooong road trips.

Ummm shouldn't the crowd be getting the beat from you and not the other way around?

perhaps this can help

www.metronomeonline.com

ebilmes
I agree with the comment about playing down (or up) to the level of our opponents. It seemed like we played the same way last year, when we played down to the level of opponents like Niagara and up to the level of opponents like CC and Wisconsin. This year, we're playing down to the level of Wayne State and Sacred Heart and up to the level of UNH. It's frustrating that while we can always seem to play at a high enough level to compete with any team on the schedule, we can never seem to play well enough to dominate the teams we should defeat handily. It's been great to see exciting wins over Sucks and UNH this year, but you question why we keep losing to Sacred Heart and Wayne State.

Now I know it may not be cool for me to jump in here while you guys are bantering back and forth about your team, but the last four years of my schools limited success has put things in a different perspective for me.
How do you know your team played up to CC and Wisconsin's level and they didn't play down to yours? No doubt, Wayne State and Sacred Heart say they played up to your level, not you down to theirs.
When you are used to a certain level of success you hold your team and your division to a "certain standard", it is easier to admit that Cornell/ Clarkson had an off day, as opposed to admitting the "shit bag" CHA or Niagara/Sacred Heart have improved.
Perspective.
Think about it, it is the same thing we accuse the WCHA of doing to us.

calgARI '07

theforgottencowbell

calgARI '07
No doubt about it but Cornell didn't play well and anywhere near the level they did a week ago. There is no disputing that. Doesn't and shouldn't matter what Sacred Heart did.

Not to complain, but Ari, you didn't play me well either, in either the 2nd or 3rd period.

Was it because you were out of practice from not having me last week in Estero?

I didn't play you in the third period. Nobody was clapping when I did in the second period. The lack of beat threw me off a bit but I still thought it was pretty good.

If pretty good means really sucks, then I agree!

Drew

ebilmes
I agree with the comment about playing down (or up) to the level of our opponents. It seemed like we played the same way last year, when we played down to the level of opponents like Niagara and up to the level of opponents like CC and Wisconsin. This year, we're playing down to the level of Wayne State and Sacred Heart and up to the level of UNH. It's frustrating that while we can always seem to play at a high enough level to compete with any team on the schedule, we can never seem to play well enough to dominate the teams we should defeat handily. It's been great to see exciting wins over Sucks and UNH this year, but you question why we keep losing to Sacred Heart and Wayne State.

Now I know it may not be cool for me to jump in here while you guys are bantering back and forth about your team, but the last four years of my schools limited success has put things in a different perspective for me.
How do you know your team played up to CC and Wisconsin's level and they didn't play down to yours? No doubt, Wayne State and Sacred Heart say they played up to your level, not you down to theirs.
When you are used to a certain level of success you hold your team and your division to a "certain standard", it is easier to admit that Cornell/ Clarkson had an off day, as opposed to admitting the "shit bag" CHA or Niagara/Sacred Heart have improved.
Perspective.
Think about it, it is the same thing we accuse the WCHA of doing to us.

You make a fair point Drew. I'd maintain that there are times when you can clearly tell whether your team is playing below it's ability or better for that matter. But most of the time it's probably in that grey area where it's only the results that you're going by.

KeithK
You make a fair point Drew. I'd maintain that there are times when you can clearly tell whether your team is playing below it's ability or better for that matter. But most of the time it's probably in that grey area where it's only the results that you're going by.

Agreed on both counts. For evidence of the former, does anybody around here except me recall the game at Lynah Cornell played against on-their-way-to-30-or-something-straight-wins RPI in the final RS game of 1985? I think that's the closest I ever saw Cornell play to an absolutely perfect game, and they still lost. I don't even think RPI was playing all that well. Cornell '85 was a decent team with a ton of heart. RPI '85 was Maine '93 with more size and less cheating. (Ralph: feel free to use that in your USCHO sig, but please attribute it so I can get the hate mail ).

But, usually, if they hit a crossbar in the first period and lose 3-2 you feel like Cornell played poorly, and if the puck deflects off the opposing goalie's skate and goes in in the first period and you win 3-2, you feel like they played well. Human nature.

CowbellGuy
http://db.elynah.com/opponent.php?opp=55

Maybe I missed something... Age, the Sacred Heart photos link doesn't seem to work.

Oops. Thanks. I'll fix it when I get back from the dentist.

Drew
Now I know it may not be cool for me to jump in here while you guys are bantering back and forth about your team...

On the contrary, that was a rationale, interesting, thought provoking comment from a helpful outside perspective.

... at least that's what I'd say if everyone didn't already know that we all don't listen to anyone with a different point of view or that isn't praising Cornell. So... bite me... jerk

DeltaOne81
So... bite me... jerk

Hey My dad always said find something you are good at and stick with it

Hey Delta, someone asked me If I could recommend a nice place to stay in Ithaca, close to the action. My favorite little crib, the Hillside, immediately came to mind ......it is bright and cheery,shotgun not included

Drew

DeltaOne81
So... bite me... jerk

Hey My dad always said find something you are good at and stick with it

Hey Delta, someone asked me If I could recommend a nice place to stay in Ithaca, close to the action. My favorite little crib, the Hillside, immediately came to mind ......it is bright and cheery,shotgun not included

My parents used to stay there when they came up to visit me in the 70s. From the pictures on their web site, nothing has changed in 30 years.