Cornell 3 Maine 6 Post-Game Discussion Thread

As I said in the game thread, I would have loved to beat Maine, but I honestly didn't expect us to have a shot at being in the title game to begin with. I think we did a hell of a job yesterday and we have a lot to build on for the stretch run starting mid-January. Now let's just not do something stupid like lose to Sacred Heart.

It will be interesting to hear from those at the game if the effort was there tonight.

A couple months ago I was picking this team 7th in conference. I aint complainin'.

As Jason said, the silver lining is that Mike can become the all-time winningest Cornell coach at home.

Going 0 x 7 on power play while allowing 3 x 5 is no way to win against a top 10 team. It was nice 24 hours holding the championship belt. And it beats losing to UNH and beating (we hope) Western Michigan.

Wasn't this tournament easily the most power laden of the bunch? The Vermont tourney had Vermont and St Cloud. The Great Lakes UofM and MSU. But most of the others seemed to be lacking in ranked teams.

Today was a letdown but the win last night may be something to build on. The D wasn't in really great form last year until they played in Wisconsin at the NCAAs. If this team continues to mature, it is hard to predict how they will fare in the playoffs.

This is a good team, far better than most of us expected at the beginning of the season. The only thing holding them back are special teams which are absolutely atrocious. Good weekend though.

If I had to choose one day this weekend on which to play well and another on which to play poorly, this is how I would have chosen to play. Yes, today was ugly, but we leave Florida with an impressive win over UNH.

We came out looking flat, and our first two goals came with a bit of luck. Davenport, unlike some other terrible first periods he has had, managed to play decently enough to keep us in the game. Unfortunately, it just seemed like every quality shot Maine got off ended up being a goal. The playbook on Troy must have been to shoot high (or should be now), since that was how the first four goals were scored. However, each time Maine scored, we (or Bishop) found a way to tie it up. In the "what if" department, it would have been nice to know how things would have worked out if Troy had made one more save.

Maine looked like a better team than UNH. Good defense and an offense that kept our d-men off-balance or sprinting backward a lot of the night.

Of the Maine goals, the second one (on the PP) was the worst. Essentially a 1x4 rush, our four guys just stood in their spots and let the Maine player skate right on the goal. Terrible goal to give up.

Disappointing end to the weekend, as this was a winnable game if we had played at a level similar to yesterday's.

Thanks to everyone who made the trip to FL or came out to support the Big Red!

Good game, but the PK didn't look good and the defensive breakdowns for the first and 2nd Maine goals were bad bad bad. Liz describes the 2nd Maine goal as "the parting of the Red sea." You could have driven a zamboni through there. 5th Maine goal was caused by a CU player (28?) slipping on the ice and leaving a hole open. Krantz's 3rd CU goal was an amazing bullet. Unfortunately, it was the only goal that CU earned on its own (the first being Romano getting to a loose puck behind Bishop the Giant very quickly, and the 2nd being a total freak of nature, time and space, but not trigonometry. Bless you, trigonometry).

Oh well, off to go drink in Fort Myers. LGR!

PS: cheer we should have used > Big Red, Inbred, Big Red, Inbred.... yea

Ben Rocky 04
PS: cheer we should have used > Big Red, Inbred, Big Red, Inbred.... yea

I suggested that one, but didn't get any enthusiastic support from you...

Locals do have some sort of inferiority complex that causes them to automatically cheer against Cornell. Bizarre.

redhair34
It will be interesting to hear from those at the game if the effort was there tonight.

It wasn't so much lack of effort, but lack of execution - combined with an opponent that was not only talented but played a lot hungrier than UNH did yesterday. I made the same "parting of the Red Sea" comment as Liz did about the 2nd Maine goal. The PP gets chances when Topher is out there, but half the PP time is going to a freshmen line of Greening-Gallagher-Romano and there's just no Topher in that group yet to set things up (I felt the same way about that last night). None of the goals against us were bad goals from a goaltending standpoint. We just allowed too many good chances and Maine was opportunistic in converting those opportunities. On a more positive note, although he got limited opportunities, I thought Milo played real well when he was out there.

Bitz is not a powerplay quarterback. Neither is Carefoot. Yet each unit runs through these guys. Schafer continually goes with these units that aren't even coming close to generating scoring chances.

Team definitely played hard tonight. This was their most physical outing of the season and they actually significantly outhit Maine. Maine is definitely one of the top teams in the NCAA and scored on basically all of their chances. Davenport wasn't terrible but he also didn't make any big saves. Cornell's defensive zone was pretty brutal. Still, if they had anything close to an efficient powerplay, they could have won this game.

Milo probably had more scoring chances than any other Cornell player and was rewarded with probably the most ice time he has had in one game this season.

ebilmes
Locals do have some sort of inferiority complex that causes them to automatically cheer against Cornell.

Not a stretch to think that the Faithful piss off some locals with our cheers, especially when we're in relatively small, disorganized bunches. What sounds ferocious and intimidating at Lynah can come across as poor sportsmanship on the road. Yet another reason to encourage clever cheers and discourage the monotonous "x... sucks!" drone.

Trotsky

ebilmes
Locals do have some sort of inferiority complex that causes them to automatically cheer against Cornell.

Not a stretch to think that the Faithful piss off some locals with our cheers, especially when we're in relatively small, disorganized bunches. What sounds ferocious and intimidating at Lynah can come across as poor sportsmanship on the road. Yet another reason to encourage clever cheers and discourage the monotonous "x... sucks!" drone.

We did actually have a woman in a Blades jacket come up and praise us for being "real fans" even though she roots against us every year. (She was particularly impressed that the dozen of us standing with the two bones stayed until the end.)

imafrshmn
Krantz from Scott!!! .... good effort on "Davy" from what seems like the lone horn.

Actually it was two trombones (RichH and Section A Banshee) but only Lauren's was miked. (The rink staff at Germain/TECO Arena continue to be really cool; they also played Cotton Eyed Joe at the request of the UHN fans, and put a spotlight on each group at various times over the weekend.)

Cornell needs to use this loss to motivate themselves for their upcoming games in January, which are quite important for their ECAC standings. The longer a winning streak, the more interested opponents are in spoiling the streak and other psychological matters come into play. With this loss, the Cornell Big Red could think of January as a clean slate, and they can go out and skate well and pull that inner drive out they'll need to be victorious towards the end of the winter months.

Thank God, you seem to be the only one to see this,do you want to be an assistant???? Do we have 3 blind mice on the bench...? We have 1 PP unit...Gallagher, Greening , Romano...Why Milo is not on the point runnig the dam thing is a mystery. The kids play better, maybe add Romano to the 1st unit and put Milo on the 2nd. Or make the Gallaghers unit the FIRST PP and give Kennedy, Scali and MIlo a chance together...Bitz and Carefoot can't skate well enough and are not quick enough and do not see the ice as well as the creative Freshman...0/7 on the PP is sad..when will they change, maybe they should read this information to assist them...Goodbye FLORIdA TILL NETX YEAR...

jtwcornell91
We did actually have a woman in a Blades jacket come up and praise us for being "real fans" even though she roots against us every year.

Did she say why?

DeltaOne81

jtwcornell91
We did actually have a woman in a Blades jacket come up and praise us for being "real fans" even though she roots against us every year.

Did she say why?

Ezra Cornell killed her great-grandfather for sport.

DeltaOne81

jtwcornell91
We did actually have a woman in a Blades jacket come up and praise us for being "real fans" even though she roots against us every year.

Did she say why?

No, but I assume she supported Maine for whatever irrational reason it is all the locals use.

I'm sitting here at the Tampa airport near a couple members of one of the junior teams that were competing at the arena. They saw my Cornell shirt and asked if I had been at the games. They complimented me on the enthusiasm of the Cornell fans, but said they had been rooting for Maine in both games. Their team is based in the midwest, so I'm not sure why they would choose to root against Cornell, either.

ebilmes
I'm sitting here at the Tampa airport near a couple members of one of the junior teams that were competing at the arena. Their team is based in the midwest, so I'm not sure why they would choose to root against Cornell, either.

JTW
[Q]DeltaOne81[Q]
jtwcornell91
We did actually have a woman in a Blades jacket come up and praise us for being "real fans" even though she roots against us every year.[/Q]

Did she say why?[/Q]No, but I assume she supported Maine for whatever irrational reason it is all the locals use.

Why don't we just ask them?

Cornell may be the most open, non-elitist, and broad-reaching of the Ivy League schools -- Harvard and Yale don't take in many sons and daughters of bookkeepers and farmers from Plattsburgh -- but if you were to do a word association of "Cornell,' "Maine," "UNH," "Western Michigan," and "preppie asshole," most respondents would pair the first and last. And if you asked the youth team players in the airport why they rooted for Maine, most of them aren't going to say, "Who's going to root for a bunch of rich kids from New York and Boston?" ... Unless it was the way cool Maine uniforms that swayed them?

There could also be some idolatry involved. These kids want to play for Minnesota, Michigan, Maine, etc. Our program isn't there yet.

There is also the root for the team that is going to win mentality that is more prevalent in youth. As for the older crowd mentioned in the thread, I'd vote for the anti-elitist idea.

jtwcornell91

DeltaOne81

jtwcornell91
We did actually have a woman in a Blades jacket come up and praise us for being "real fans" even though she roots against us every year.

Did she say why?

No, but I assume she supported Maine for whatever irrational reason it is all the locals use.

On the Maine broadcast they interviewed a Maine alum who plays for the Everblades, so that may have something to do with it. I realize a Cornell alum is involved in running the team, but I think fans tend to develop more of an attachment to players than management/ownership.

Tom Lento
I realize a Cornell alum is involved in running the team, but I think fans tend to develop more of an attachment to players than management/ownership.

Or Athletics departments.

Two days after the tournament and not even 30 post-game thread posts. When Cornell gets beaten fair and square, we have less to say. It's not as if one goal going the other way would have made a difference in this game. And maybe we're still happy - I am - to have taken down the No. 2 team on opening night.

billhoward
And maybe we're still happy - I am - to have taken down the No. 2 team on opening night.

I'm happy, too, about the weekend. But I'm not sure that means I can't be disappointed that we were not as competitive as I think we could have been in the Saturday game.

billhoward
Two days after the tournament and not even 30 post-game thread posts. When Cornell gets beaten fair and square, we have less to say. It's not as if one goal going the other way would have made a difference in this game. And maybe we're still happy - I am - to have taken down the No. 2 team on opening night.

Seems to me that there's not a lot of new stuff to talk about. Davenport was off and had to be pulled--again. Special teams stunk--again. Maine was a better team than us.

ebilmes
Seems to me that there's not a lot of new stuff to talk about. Davenport was off and had to be pulled--again. Special teams stunk--again. Maine was a better team than us.

I don't think Davenport should have been pulled. The first Maine goal was unstoppable, and the second ME goal was from a total defensive breakdown. Letting in two goals bad goals isn't so bad (cough cough Ben Bishop). However, I think Scrivens is the better of the two goalies.

Sometimes a coach changes goalies more for the effect it might have on the team skating in front of the goalie than for the goalie himself.

billhoward
... Unless it was the way cool Maine uniforms that swayed them?

I hope you don't mean the ones they wore this weekend.

Ben Rocky 04
However, I think Scrivens is the better of the two goalies.

I've seen five games this year, including two in which Davenport was pulled. I'm not convinced, though, that Scrivens is the better of the two goalies. Davenport has shown enough flashes of brilliance that I think his upside is higher than Scrivens'. I'm sure if Schafer thought that Scrivens was the better goalie, he'd start him over Davenport. Since Schafer sees the two goalies in practice every day, I'm trusting him on this one.

By the way, does anyone know how seriously McCutcheon was hurt? He left the UNH game with an injury and didn't suit up against Maine. His absence could be one reason our penalty kill was so poor against Maine.

Also, this was the perfect game to make a change without it having a big effect on the team. The team had already beaten number two and was falling behind the number five team.

In making the change he tested Scrivens and could compare his play to Davenport's. Even though the game turned out the way it did, it gave Scrivens experience in a tournament and let the coach see how he reacted for future reference.

ebilmes

billhoward
Two days after the tournament and not even 30 post-game thread posts. When Cornell gets beaten fair and square, we have less to say. It's not as if one goal going the other way would have made a difference in this game. And maybe we're still happy - I am - to have taken down the No. 2 team on opening night.

Seems to me that there's not a lot of new stuff to talk about.

Since when has that stopped billhoward from talking?

From Friday's Ithaca Journal:

"Schafer had mixed feelings about Cornell's Florida trip, loving the New Hampshire performance but being less enamored of the physical conditioning some of his players displayed in the Maine game.

"'We had a lot of guys that over the three-week (holiday and final exam) break that took some time off,' Schafer said. 'We got guys who were home eight, nine days on their own. Some guys played very well and some guys didn't. And they had a hard time getting around the second night after not playing a game for (27) days.'”

dbilmes
By the way, does anyone know how seriously McCutcheon was hurt? He left the UNH game with an injury and didn't suit up against Maine. His absence could be one reason our penalty kill was so poor against Maine.

Reasonably good news from Friday's Ithaca Journal:

"Senior forward Mark McCutcheon was hurt in last weekend's first game and missed the second game as a result. He may miss the Sacred Heart game, but the injury is not considered serious."

Al DeFlorio
From Friday's Ithaca Journal:

"'We had a lot of guys that over the three-week (holiday and final exam) break that took some time off,' Schafer said. 'We got guys who were home eight, nine days on their own. Some guys played very well and some guys didn't. And they had a hard time getting around the second night after not playing a game for (27) days.'”

As much as I agree that taking time off can hurt the team, I hate the implied criticism in Schafer's quote because the guys spent some time with their families or studied hard for their finals. Even if they go home, most of them have workout routines devised so they don't get completely out of shape. They might not be skating while they're home, but I still think it's pretty valid that they should get to go home and spend time with their families, and I don't think it's fair of Schafer to put them down for that. Yes, Schafer is the coach and ultimately knows what's best for the team, but it's not like the players WANT to lose and are trying to screw things up by taking a break.

las224

Al DeFlorio
From Friday's Ithaca Journal:

"'We had a lot of guys that over the three-week (holiday and final exam) break that took some time off,' Schafer said. 'We got guys who were home eight, nine days on their own. Some guys played very well and some guys didn't. And they had a hard time getting around the second night after not playing a game for (27) days.'”

As much as I agree that taking time off can hurt the team, I hate the implied criticism in Schafer's quote because the guys spent some time with their families or studied hard for their finals. Even if they go home, most of them have workout routines devised so they don't get completely out of shape. They might not be skating while they're home, but I still think it's pretty valid that they should get to go home and spend time with their families, and I don't think it's fair of Schafer to put them down for that. Yes, Schafer is the coach and ultimately knows what's best for the team, but it's not like the players WANT to lose and are trying to screw things up by taking a break.

I read the implication as not everyone stuck to their workout routines while they were on break.

jtwcornell91
I read the implication as not everyone stuck to their workout routines while they were on break.

As did I.

While this is only based on the call of the game by the UHN broadcast team, we seemed to be right on top of UHN throughout that game, regularly disrupting their breakouts and rarely letting them get any free space, I never got that same sense from the Maine announcers about the championship game.

yeah i dont think his criticism was that kids went home, it's not like an NFL mini-camp or something where a veteran doesn't show up. he's been a college coach for a long time, and breaks/exams and all that are a part of the landscape at any school.

if some of the team hadn't kept up on their conditioning during that time, it would really show on a second day against a top-tier team. it seemed to me that he felt that some of the team hadn't kept up their conditioning, and regardless of if the players are in ithaca or home with their families, they should still be putting in the time to stay fit.

Apologies for the delay, but I finally have time to write up my observations from Estero.

Cornell outplayed UNH and deserved to win.

The PP was hopeless, of course. For the past several years, it's been "get it to the point for a one-time slappah" and that's what it continues to be, even though we don't have the guns for it and everyone who's scouted us has to know it's coming. This is a failure of coaching, imo. They need different options, especially given the smaller, quicker players on the team now.

All the frosh continue to impress. Greening played well. Milo seems to have a lot of potential.

On the weekend, Sawada looked very good, though he took a penalty or two that I would call undisciplined. He was the only real "presence" for many shifts.

Maine looked much the best team. They outhit CU and used their size in a very Cornell-2003-like manner. Their special teams are supposedly quite good, so of course they looked fabulous compared to ours. Maine is beatable, but not by us this year, at least not without drastic improvement in many parts of our game.

Bitz was virtually a non-entity. I think he was significant on about two shifts all weekend. He needed to be more Sawada and less Topher.

Tony Romano reminded us a lot of Brock Treadway. I think Romano might have better skills. Allow me to mix my sports analysis up a little. They used to say that Dean Smith was the only person who could hold Michael Jordan to 17 points a game. I just hope 3 years from now, we don't look back and say a similar thing about Schafer and Romano.

Troy made one save (against UNH iirc) that had us out of our seats in amazement. Other than that, the CU goaltending was pretty ordinary. They don't seem to handle 1-on-1's particularly well. And Troy *really* has to work on his stick-side top shelf.

Karl