Wayne State Postgame (Sunday)

I did not see the game (I made the bright decision to watch the Giants pull one of the all-time choke jobs ), but good to see a win here. The PK was obviously better, but we obviously need to improve on the PP (1 for 10 won't cut it).

Pretty brutal performance. Some guys played better than last year while others still played in neutral. Liked Scali a lot. Their goalie made some big saves in the first period.

Our play was somewhat better than the way we played last night. Davenport wasn't seriously challenged, but made the saves when he had to and it should definitely help his confidence to have the shutout.

I didn't notice Scali very much, but Kindret was all over the ice on his shifts and seemed to really enjoy getting some ice time.

Kill and PP were improved.

A horrible weekend in that we split with a team we should have walked all over, but I'd rather end with the win than have it be the other way around.

Edit: Oh, and there was no one there.

i've never posted before (but read frequently) but here are my thoughts on the game:

I didn't notice Scali on the ice very much, but there were two big plays he had that I definitely noticed. He had a very nice drive with space (not quite a breakaway I don't think) in the first period when the WS keeper made a very nice save. He also had a very nice 2 on 1 in the third that was knocked away by a WS defenseman who was sliding wildly swinging his stick. Scali didn't seem to do anything amazing on either play, but both were good opportunities and he was there both times, maybe that says enough.

I was puzzled that Coach went back to Davenport in net, I figured maybe sticking with Scrivens who had seen much more of WS on Saturday might make some sense. Davenport looked confident but had 2 VERY close calls that both caught the post (one in 2nd, one in 3rd) that could have very easily gone the other way. That being said, it's hard to fault a shutout.

On the crowd: I usually sit in F/G somewhere over there but was in A for both these games. A and B seemed very quiet during both games. During the third period yesterday there were lots of LGR chants started by the band and others in A and barely anyone in either A or B joined in. Granted we weren't playing well and were losing, but kinda disappointing I thought.

On the ushers: Today I was in A screaming for most of the third at Hooper in net for WS and was told by an usher that one of (Fire) Andy's minions had instructed her to tell me to tone it down some or she would have to toss me. I didn't use profanity, say anything racially or otherwise offensive, it was the usual heckling. She apologized for it after the game and said she wouldn't have tossed me but she was specifically instructed by "one of [Fire] Andy's crew."

One of my friends from A visited me in D for the 2nd period. He yelled Hooper's name a bunch, and then almost got tossed by the usher. Ugh.

I thought it was hard not to notice Scali. In addition to what was already said, he drew two Wayne State penalites. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't stay in the lineup.

anyone know who the 3 stars from WHCU were? I got to the car too late

Does anyone have a "Fire Andy" page up? If so, we can all link to it in our posts here and signatures at other sites and see if it will work as a google bomb.

Kyle

mttgrmm
On the ushers: Today I was in A screaming for most of the third at Hooper in net for WS and was told by an usher that one of (Fire) Andy's minions had instructed her to tell me to tone it down some or she would have to toss me. I didn't use profanity, say anything racially or otherwise offensive, it was the usual heckling. She apologized for it after the game and said she wouldn't have tossed me but she was specifically instructed by "one of [Fire] Andy's crew."

I enjoyed listening to you and the other guy in A who was shouting at Hooper. Definitely nothing offensive there, IMO.

I found several times that the more heavyset female usher on A/B aisle was just standing in the aisle, glaring at me during some of the cheers. As others have said, this is quite distracting. You feel an obligation to clearly mouth the sanitized words so you don't get thrown out.

ebilmes
I found several times that the more heavyset female usher on A/B aisle was just standing in the aisle, glaring at me during some of the cheers. As others have said, this is quite distracting. You feel an obligation to clearly mouth the sanitized words so you don't get thrown out.

I think this quote by an usher uttered right before the 3rd period sums it all up.

"I wish the crowd was like this every game." I assume he meant this quiet and "well behaved."

Good job Grimey. I stood next to him for both games, and we were very, very loud. "Ugly vest," "go back to Detroit," etc... I think the ushers were eyeing us both nights because the crowd was very sparse due to the holiday weekend and we were easy targets. Anyway, (fire) Andy has slowly drained the fun out of being in the crowd. It's fair that we're not allowed to make racial slurs, or swearing, that's understandable. But being loud and creative? C'mon!

On the game: Scali made two really nice plays on the, what it seemed, two times he was on the ice. McCutcheon really wanted goals, and played really well while he was on the ice. We looked a lot better today, but still, our guys seem to be everywhere but where the puck is. There were quite a few plays that had the guys been in position would have opened up some quality scoring opportunities. But that's a generaic complaint, I think every team does it, so singling out our guys probably isn't fair.

A win's a win, so let's take it and hope that Schafer can light a fire under these guys for this weekend.

MB
Anyway, (fire) Andy has slowly drained the fun out of being in the crowd. It's fair that we're not allowed to make racial slurs, or swearing, that's understandable. But being loud and creative? C'mon!

I'm going to politely disagree. Our crowd isn't particularly creative - every chant/cheer is a derivative of "you suck" and frankly, I find it boring and have tuned out most of what the student sections are yelling. And most of the chants/cheers are the same or variations of things done at other schools (the newspapers before the game? sending an opponent to the penalty box? seen that at close to two dozen rinks around the country). And while Lynah may or may not have been where those things started, they're not exactly creative or innovative. With things like that going on elsewhere, they're not special or unique here, thus losing any effect they might have.

You can be loud and into the game and affect the other team without being idiots about it. That's apparently a foreign concept to many people here.

ANyone know why Mugford and Barlow were out, if it's something specific?

Healthy scratches.

imafrshmn
ANyone know why Mugford and Barlow were out, if it's something specific?

They were benched for taking unwise penalties.

imafrshmn
ANyone know why Mugford and Barlow were out, if it's something specific?

The team sucked last night and Schafer was trying to send a message. I guess he was surprised that Mugford didn't do well on the top line. Thought Barlow was actually OK last night.

mttgrmm
Davenport looked confident but had 2 VERY close calls that both caught the post (one in 2nd, one in 3rd) that could have very easily gone the other way.

These were both captured by the video feed, and my heart was leaping out of my mouth. Troy has the "put the stick down parallel with the ice and sweep" move perfected, and it's effective clearing loose chaff from the crease, but it leaves him naked above the waist. We had enough bodies interposed between the shooters and him tonight that all the WSU shots went wide or deflected off legs, butts, etc. It is still a scary way to live, and IMHO a true sharpshooter would eat him alive. I guess we'll see in Estero.

MB

On the game: Scali made two really nice plays on the, what it seemed, two times he was on the ice.

Scali actually appeared to be on the ice a lot, taking regular shifts. And I'm pretty sure he was out there for every penalty kill.

Actually I thought Davenport would start in net. I'm not an expert, and I certainly don't have as honed an analysis of our team as most people on this board; but it seems to me that while Schafer is willing to bench a goalie when he's having an off night, it's also his style to put him back on the next day to push him to get his confidence back. Kinda like "last night happened, it's over -- put it behind you, cause you're back out tonight." As I said, I wouldn't be surprised if wiser Faithful than I will pick a million holes in that theory, but anyway the bottom line of my prediction was right.

McCutcheon definitely had a fire under his ass today, it was good to see. This was the first time I've seen the frosh live, and I think the one I most noticed was Nash.

redhair34

imafrshmn
ANyone know why Mugford and Barlow were out, if it's something specific?

They were benched for taking unwise penalties.

I had anticipated that Mugford would be benched in favor of Scali because Mugford has taken too many penalties throughout the season and Schafer was at the end of his rope. I didn't anticipate Barlow would sit.

Interesting that Kindret got the nod over Fontas.

Didn't Chris Fontas say he came to Cornell from UMass-Lowell because he wanted a better academic environment, also? So he's getting half a loaf if not much (any) playing time. Has he dressed for a game?

Somehow I had thought he was a scoring stud for UMass, maybe because last spring before knowing a lot about the strength of the incoming freshmen we were counting (hoping) on his clout, but his stats say he was 3-6--9 in 68 games. [cornellbigred.cstv.com]

billhoward
Didn't Chris Fontas say he came to Cornell from UMass-Lowell because he wanted a better academic environment, also? So he's getting half a loaf if not much (any) playing time. Has he dressed for a game?

Somehow I had thought he was a scoring stud for UMass, maybe because last spring before knowing a lot about the strength of the incoming freshmen we were counting (hoping) on his clout, but his stats say he was 3-6--9 in 68 games. [cornellbigred.cstv.com]

He hasn't dressed a game. Someone (I think Ari) mentioned he is/has been injured.

bandrews37

MB
Anyway, (fire) Andy has slowly drained the fun out of being in the crowd. It's fair that we're not allowed to make racial slurs, or swearing, that's understandable. But being loud and creative? C'mon!

I'm going to politely disagree. Our crowd isn't particularly creative - every chant/cheer is a derivative of "you suck" and frankly, I find it boring and have tuned out most of what the student sections are yelling. And most of the chants/cheers are the same or variations of things done at other schools (the newspapers before the game? sending an opponent to the penalty box? seen that at close to two dozen rinks around the country). And while Lynah may or may not have been where those things started, they're not exactly creative or innovative. With things like that going on elsewhere, they're not special or unique here, thus losing any effect they might have.

You can be loud and into the game and affect the other team without being idiots about it. That's apparently a foreign concept to many people here.

I had the impression that this is exactly the sort of thing MB and mttgrmm were talking about - being loud and affecting the other team without being idiots about it, and without relying on the word "sucks." I gather they make serious individual efforts to be creative and yell things at the opposing goalies on their own - a fine, long-standing, and genuinely creative tradition in Sections A and B.

So what is it you're politely disagreeing with?

Mugford takes so many stupid penalties and with the PK being so poor to date I would sit him too. Scali was great.. New life to the PK, yes Wayne state is not the best team but it proves the kid deserves to be there!!!
Barlow, all of us like just takes too may chances, scary at times, Mike S. will be less gray if they stay out of the line up.

Overall Sunday was a relief. Any thoughts of the 1st and 2nd PP. Looks like the kids do a better job.. The Vets can not figure out how to score...perimeter play only..The kids are fun to watch and their chances are far better and things will drop in the net, once they are given the ice time...Greening and Ramano are the real deal!!!!

I'm shocked by how willing folks are to throw Mugford under the bus. He is a tough, gritty player who is in the lineup because of his scrappiness and work ethic. Yes, his hit from behind was a stupid penalty. And yes, he does take the occasional undisciplined penalty. But he also draws a ton of penalties from jawing with the other team and working hard along the boards. The last thing this team needs is its grittiest player watching the game in a suit for an extended period of time. I'd like to see Mugford and Scali in the lineup with Milo/Barlow as the 13th forward.

Mugford's been very good, but he does take far too many penalties. And I feel both he and Sawada have been a bit weak lately. I do like Barlow, so I wasn't all that happy to see him sitting.

Scali needs to stay in the lineup. Gallagher's been alright, and very good on faceoffs. I'd personally not dress Milo, but he hasn't been bad.

Dafatone
Mugford's been very good, but he does take far too many penalties. And I feel both he and Sawada have been a bit weak lately.

Sawada threw some monster hits and took some great shots yesterday afternoon - and was one of the few players who really seemed to be making an effort on Saturday night.

No one's mentioning Kindret! Ryan certainly seemed to relish his playing time and was all over the ice. I'd like to see more Kindret.

I didn't think that Mugford's penalty was bad. I thought it was one of the few times during the weekend in which a Cornell player showed emotion and stuck up for his teammates. I agree with redhair--Mugford is gritty and sticks his nose where no one else wants to. I was very surprised that he was scratched, mostly because this team needed a shot of energy after Saturday.

Regarding the ushers, and with apologies for obvious repetition, I think the point has been missed. People in the student sections are scared to be creative. It's gotten to a point where if one person starts a funny cheer (with or without "sucks", he or she might get thrown out. Reason #1 for the lack of good cheers, and reason #1 for not losing my voice at any home game this season.

Personally, I wasn't very impressed with Kindret. He has good speed, and hustles, but seems to get beaten fighting for the puck every time he gets tied up with someone against the boards.

Yes, I agree. I would like to see more Kindret. Schafer had him start the second line with Kennedy & Carefoot. Kindret made a great tape to tape pass, while getting hit, to Carefoot for a partial break away. Kindret also, set up McCutcheon for a big shot. Kindret also played on a line with Bitz & Swada for a while and also with Scott & Romano. Kindret makes things happen, I think that's why Schafer had him all over, to energize the team. Kindret may not always put up the stats, but he makes contributions that can't alway be measured in stats. Gotta keep him in the lineup.

Karlmoose
It's gotten to a point where if one person starts a funny cheer (with or without "sucks), he or she might get thrown out. Reason #1 for the lack of good cheers, and reason #1 for not losing my voice at any home game this season.

Someone should take a cell phone video of someone starting a funny, creative, non-curseword cheer and getting tossed out for it, and post it on YouTube.

It seems thats the only, or easiest way, to cause a bit of a scandal these days (Kramer, Senator Macaca, etc). Then makes sure the Sun and Mike Schafer get wind of it. I think I'm only half kidding...

calgARI '07
Pretty brutal performance. Some guys played better than last year while others still played in neutral. Liked Scali a lot. Their goalie made some big saves in the first period.

Scali's hustle and energy are amazing. Especially since this is in many ways a higher energy team than in years past. But a team can only afford a couple guys like that if "hustle and energy" are code-words for "not yet a scorer or playmaker." At Quinnipiac Scali was all over the ice but also took a penalty that led to a Quinnipiac goal. Not meant as a put-down, but people like Scali make our losses more exciting. I've had enough 2-1 losses from early in the decade where you knew a one-goal deficit with 10 minutes to play was a cliff that would rarely be scaled.

Karlmoose
I didn't think that Mugford's penalty was bad. I thought it was one of the few times during the weekend in which a Cornell player showed emotion and stuck up for his teammates. I agree with redhair--Mugford is gritty and sticks his nose where no one else wants to. I was very surprised that he was scratched, mostly because this team needed a shot of energy after Saturday.

I'm not positive (maybe someone else can confirm/deny this) but I think Mugford hit the Wayne State player who moments earlier hit Milo from behind into the boards (ref swallowed his whistle).

Even if you're not a fan of the occasional undisciplined hit/retaliation/physical statement, I still think folks should be much more frustrated with the penalty kill than the number of and timing of our penalties.

billhoward
Scali's hustle and energy are amazing. Especially since this is in many ways a higher energy team than in years past. But a team can only afford a couple guys like that if "hustle and energy" are code-words for "not yet a scorer or playmaker." At Quinnipiac Scali was all over the ice but also took a penalty that led to a Quinnipiac goal. Not meant as a put-down, but people like Scali make our losses more exciting. I've had enough 2-1 losses from early in the decade where you knew a one-goal deficit with 10 minutes to play was a cliff that would rarely be scaled.

I think you are selling Scali short before we've had enough time to evaluate him. He has shown flashes of offensive ability. On the partial shorthanded breakaway yesterday he looked like a goalscorer. He made a great toe-drag to lose his defender and had the patience to wait until the defender went down and he had a clear shot before shooting the puck. Word from fans/media in BC was that Scali had a knack for scoring timely shorthanded goals. And his junior ppg numbers were on par with those of Sawada, Barlow and Greening. But even if your hunch is right and he is just "hustle and energy," considering the state of our pk and the initial impact he had killing penalties, I'd still love to see him in the lineup.

Dafatone
Personally, I wasn't very impressed with Kindret. He has good speed, and hustles, but seems to get beaten fighting for the puck every time he gets tied up with someone against the boards.

I pretty much agree. I've always like his play, but I don't see him cracking the lineup this year for a sustained period of time (barring injury). Of the top 14 forwards on the team he is the only one who hasn't seen time on the pp or the pk.

The other thing is that it's dangerous to be creative nowadays in Lynah. People rely on "[School] SUCKS" or "Let's go Red" because they know that won't get them kicked out. When you start wandering off to uncharted territory, there's not telling what the ushers or (fire) Andy will do.

yeah the one that almost got me tossed was "Hooper your mother Wendy will still love you even though you are ugly and a horrible hockey player.... I will still hate you."

it was a matter of seconds after that I was told to tone it down. it's safer to just go with "hooper you suck" or something like that, cause we know (fire) andy won't toss us for that.

mttgrmm
yeah the one that almost got me tossed was "Hooper your mother Wendy will still love you even though you are ugly and a horrible hockey player.... I will still hate you."

it was a matter of seconds after that I was told to tone it down. it's safer to just go with "hooper you suck" or something like that, cause we know (fire) andy won't toss us for that.

I'd rather hear these more personalized comments than the typical "Hooper, you suck." They're more creative and more interesting, but sadly not appropriate for the new Lynah.

"Hooper! Hooper! I'm still here, you can't get rid of me!" or something like that (no cursing, or even any bad non-swear words like "sucks" almost got a friend tossed in D.

This needs to change, or in the somewhat near future, Lynah won't be exciting at all and we'll have trouble selling out our games.

I wonder what Andy's minions would think of "Hey, Eric! Your mom called. She said ... 'I HAVE NO SON!'"

jtwcornell91
I wonder what Andy's minions would think of "Hey, Eric! Your mom called. She said ... 'I HAVE NO SON!'"

Great, creative, funny, but you'll never get the several hundred people around you not to jump in with "You suck."

redhair34
I'm shocked by how willing folks are to throw Mugford under the bus. He is a tough, gritty player who is in the lineup because of his scrappiness and work ethic. Yes, his hit from behind was a stupid penalty. And yes, he does take the occasional undisciplined penalty. But he also draws a ton of penalties from jawing with the other team and working hard along the boards. The last thing this team needs is its grittiest player watching the game in a suit for an extended period of time.

Like other Cornell "true grit" players of yesteryear, Mugford's role is to go right up to the line. That means he will occasionally go past it, and that will be considered acceptable if his overall play is a net gain for the team. When he goes too far too often and is a net drag, he'll be disciplined. See also: Mike Schafer, Dave Crombeen, Alex Nikolic, Dan Dufresne, Mike Sancimino, Jeff Oates, Frank Kovac, and Greg Hornby.

Wow. Great list. Two more and you'd have a penalty box "Ten Most Wanted"

Doug and Dave Ferguson circa 1966.

TimV
Doug and Dave Ferguson circa 1966.

George Walker, '64

Beeeej

jtwcornell91
I wonder what Andy's minions would think of "Hey, Eric! Your mom called. She said ... 'I HAVE NO SON!'"

Great, creative, funny, but you'll never get the several hundred people around you not to jump in with "You suck."

Yes, well, that's why it was done at an away game at Appleton. (In response to some SLU official informing the band that "the president" had asked them not to say "suck" any more.)

Trotsky
Like other Cornell "true grit" players of yesteryear, Mugford's role is to go right up to the line. That means he will occasionally go past it, and that will be considered acceptable if his overall play is a net gain for the team. When he goes too far too often and is a net drag, he'll be disciplined.

I completely agree/understand. My point is that I don't think he has gone too far too often; I think his overall play is a net gain for the team. I'm suggesting that his own occasional lack of discipline is more than balanced by the fact that he constantly instigates the opposition to commit penalties and that his undisciplined penalties have served a desirable purpose (stick up for teammates, rile up the bench, send a message to the other team).

In general I think the fanbase this year is far too quick to blame a player for an undisciplined/retaliatory/emotional penalty such as Mugford on Saturday, Scali @ Quinnipiac, etc., despite the fact that with the new ECAC officiating crackdown we have about the same PIM per game as last year. And we are far too slow to question those who aren't giving the consistent effort and aren't playing with urgency.

redhair34
And we are far too slow to question those who aren't giving the consistent effort and aren't playing with urgency.

Are we reading the same Forum?!

redhair34
In general I think the fanbase this year is far too quick to blame a player for an undisciplined/retaliatory/emotional penalty such as Mugford on Saturday, Scali @ Quinnipiac, etc., despite the fact that with the new ECAC officiating crackdown we have about the same PIM per game as last year. And we are far too slow to question those who aren't giving the consistent effort and aren't playing with urgency.

I agree. I wonder if this is partially because our pk isn't at the levels of past years, so that these penalties seem like they are costing us more than before.

Giffy

redhair34
In general I think the fanbase this year is far too quick to blame a player for an undisciplined/retaliatory/emotional penalty such as Mugford on Saturday, Scali @ Quinnipiac, etc., despite the fact that with the new ECAC officiating crackdown we have about the same PIM per game as last year. And we are far too slow to question those who aren't giving the consistent effort and aren't playing with urgency.

I agree. I wonder if this is partially because our pk isn't at the levels of past years, so that these penalties seem like they are costing us more than before.

It does make the undisciplined penalties that much more blatant when you are getting scored on all the time as a result. When the PK is operating at 75% as opposed to the 85-90% of the past, more of those mistakes are going to cost the team on the scoreboard.

Beeeej
Sawada threw some monster hits and took some great shots yesterday afternoon - and was one of the few players who really seemed to be making an effort on Saturday night.

Sawada did have an amazing shift where he seemed to have a search-and-destroy chip in his helmet. Loved it.

Dafatone
...Gallagher's been alright, and very good on faceoffs.

Good point. Gallagher has been the team's best faceoff man thus far.

ithacat

Beeeej
Sawada threw some monster hits and took some great shots yesterday afternoon - and was one of the few players who really seemed to be making an effort on Saturday night.

Sawada did have an amazing shift where he seemed to have a search-and-destroy chip in his helmet. Loved it.

Did we recycle that from Hornby's helmet?