We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by KeithK
We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:33AM
So the committee decides to ignore their own criteria and give Denver the higher overall seed (and the Bemidji draw) over CC solely because of the WCHA championship final. What a load of bulls***. And then Dean avoids the Cornell-Minnesota question based on the same logic. Man, that pisses me off.
Then again it almost serves CC right for losing the frickin' game yesterday. We wouldn't have been stuck with the Minnesota draw if the Tigers could've just scored a damn goal last night.[/rant]
Then again it almost serves CC right for losing the frickin' game yesterday. We wouldn't have been stuck with the Minnesota draw if the Tigers could've just scored a damn goal last night.[/rant]
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Icer (69.84.115.---)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:45AM
When do we start the angry emails?
Maybe Dean's problem is that he's a Yalie and can't help it.
A lot of people on that show had really poor analysis and explanations-- The host seemed to have a "15 minute's briefing" idea of what was going on. The guy in the middle was okay i guess.
Adam had great analysis, even if he misspoke on the 1 loss thing. I noticed that every time he brought up an ECACHL team, the others seemed to cut him short.
Anyone else notice that there was no video footage of ECACHL teams? At least, I didn't see any.
Maybe Dean's problem is that he's a Yalie and can't help it.
A lot of people on that show had really poor analysis and explanations-- The host seemed to have a "15 minute's briefing" idea of what was going on. The guy in the middle was okay i guess.
Adam had great analysis, even if he misspoke on the 1 loss thing. I noticed that every time he brought up an ECACHL team, the others seemed to cut him short.
Anyone else notice that there was no video footage of ECACHL teams? At least, I didn't see any.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: mjh89 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:48AM
The commitee chair guy basically just said "we did what we did, sorry if you don't like it."
As far as highlights, I think they were using mostly footage from last year's tournament because thats all ESPN has the rights to. The ECAC wasn't there for very long.
As far as highlights, I think they were using mostly footage from last year's tournament because thats all ESPN has the rights to. The ECAC wasn't there for very long.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:48AM
It's inconceivably ridiculous and really entirely unacceptable as Cornell gets screwed more than any other team without question. The whole thing sucks. However, it's done now, and as the thread title says, "We let them decide it on the ice."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2005 11:49AM by calgARI '07.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:51AM
[Q]KeithK Wrote: And then Dean avoids the Cornell-Minnesota question based on the same logic. Man, that pisses me off.[/q]Actually, I thought he sidestepped it because he was in our favor. As I remember he said we all voted and that's the way it came out. Not saying he agreed.
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:52AM
When Dean gets off of the committee who do we have to bribe to get Schafer to take his place? 
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:54AM
[q]Actually, I thought he sidestepped it because he was in our favor. As I remember he said we all voted and that's the way it came out. Not saying he agreed.[/q]I actually agree with you Jim, but I'm just annoyed enough right now that I couldn't bring myself to type that.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: TCHL8842 (---.houston.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:55AM
calgARI, we did get kind of screwed, but at least we played 2 out the three teams in the past 2 years. If I have to say who got the worse end of the deal it would be CC. CC has a regional that has Michigan and WIsconsin both very solid teams, also instead of playing bemidji state, they have to play colgate which is a considerably tougher team. We all knew after last night we were going to end up in Minnesota, and OSU is not the worse draw we could of gotten out of the number 3 seeds. Also, Maine has been coming on stronger as of late and I could see them knocking out Minnesota in the first round. So it is not like Minnesota has a push-over game and then faces us.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:59AM
[Q]TCHL8842 Wrote:
calgARI, we did get kind of screwed, but at least we played 2 out the three teams in the past 2 years. If I have to say who got the worse end of the deal it would be CC. CC has a regional that has Michigan and WIsconsin both very solid teams, also instead of playing bemidji state, they have to play colgate which is a considerably tougher team. We all knew after last night we were going to end up in Minnesota, and OSU is not the worse draw we could of gotten out of the number 3 seeds. Also, Maine has been coming on stronger as of late and I could see them knocking out Minnesota in the first round. So it is not like Minnesota has a push-over game and then faces us.[/q]
I agree that CC got screwed, but as someone else said in another thread, they deserve it for losing last night! As for Maine, I really agree, and I do think they have a very good shot against Minnesota. Of note is that all three schools besides Minnesota play on NA ice. The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice. I am a conspiracy theorist, and schools like Minnesota and Michigan sure did well today whereas schools like Cornell and Colorado College did not. The NCAA is about one thing and that is MONEY.
calgARI, we did get kind of screwed, but at least we played 2 out the three teams in the past 2 years. If I have to say who got the worse end of the deal it would be CC. CC has a regional that has Michigan and WIsconsin both very solid teams, also instead of playing bemidji state, they have to play colgate which is a considerably tougher team. We all knew after last night we were going to end up in Minnesota, and OSU is not the worse draw we could of gotten out of the number 3 seeds. Also, Maine has been coming on stronger as of late and I could see them knocking out Minnesota in the first round. So it is not like Minnesota has a push-over game and then faces us.[/q]
I agree that CC got screwed, but as someone else said in another thread, they deserve it for losing last night! As for Maine, I really agree, and I do think they have a very good shot against Minnesota. Of note is that all three schools besides Minnesota play on NA ice. The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice. I am a conspiracy theorist, and schools like Minnesota and Michigan sure did well today whereas schools like Cornell and Colorado College did not. The NCAA is about one thing and that is MONEY.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: jy3 (---.buff.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:59AM
i think it would have been nicer to have wi instead of tosu, though. WI has been on a slide of late. having two hot teams and two cold teams in the same bracket should favor the hot teams 
we shall see though. let them decide it on the ice. I have faith in team having a legitimate shot this year. LGR!
we shall see though. let them decide it on the ice. I have faith in team having a legitimate shot this year. LGR!
___________________________
LGR!!!!!!!!!!
jy3 '00
LGR!!!!!!!!!!
jy3 '00
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:00PM
On the other hand, maybe the committee put three far away schools in Minnesota because there aren't any more tickets available anyway.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:08PM
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
On the other hand, maybe the committee put three far away schools in Minnesota because there aren't any more tickets available anyway.[/q]
So they figure, since Minnesota has it absolutely made, we might as well screw three other team's fans. They really have to change the host school thing to what they do in basketball - host schools go anywhere BUT their regional.
On the other hand, maybe the committee put three far away schools in Minnesota because there aren't any more tickets available anyway.[/q]
So they figure, since Minnesota has it absolutely made, we might as well screw three other team's fans. They really have to change the host school thing to what they do in basketball - host schools go anywhere BUT their regional.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:11PM
How about host schools can't make the tournament? That would work for me...
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Lauren '06 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:14PM
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
TCHL8842 Wrote:
calgARI, we did get kind of screwed, but at least we played 2 out the three teams in the past 2 years. If I have to say who got the worse end of the deal it would be CC. CC has a regional that has Michigan and WIsconsin both very solid teams, also instead of playing bemidji state, they have to play colgate which is a considerably tougher team. We all knew after last night we were going to end up in Minnesota, and OSU is not the worse draw we could of gotten out of the number 3 seeds. Also, Maine has been coming on stronger as of late and I could see them knocking out Minnesota in the first round. So it is not like Minnesota has a push-over game and then faces us.[/Q]
I agree that CC got screwed, but as someone else said in another thread, they deserve it for losing last night! As for Maine, I really agree, and I do think they have a very good shot against Minnesota. Of note is that all three schools besides Minnesota play on NA ice. The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice. I am a conspiracy theorist, and schools like Minnesota and Michigan sure did well today whereas schools like Cornell and Colorado College did not. The NCAA is about one thing and that is MONEY.[/q]
If the NCAA were about money, they'd have sent Cornell to one of the eastern regionals and pick up the extra gate return. They're screwing themselves out of a lot of money by not doing that.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:16PM
[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:
calgARI '07 Wrote:
TCHL8842 Wrote:
calgARI, we did get kind of screwed, but at least we played 2 out the three teams in the past 2 years. If I have to say who got the worse end of the deal it would be CC. CC has a regional that has Michigan and WIsconsin both very solid teams, also instead of playing bemidji state, they have to play colgate which is a considerably tougher team. We all knew after last night we were going to end up in Minnesota, and OSU is not the worse draw we could of gotten out of the number 3 seeds. Also, Maine has been coming on stronger as of late and I could see them knocking out Minnesota in the first round. So it is not like Minnesota has a push-over game and then faces us.[/Q]
I agree that CC got screwed, but as someone else said in another thread, they deserve it for losing last night! As for Maine, I really agree, and I do think they have a very good shot against Minnesota. Of note is that all three schools besides Minnesota play on NA ice. The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice. I am a conspiracy theorist, and schools like Minnesota and Michigan sure did well today whereas schools like Cornell and Colorado College did not. The NCAA is about one thing and that is MONEY.[/Q]
If the NCAA were about money, they'd have sent Cornell to one of the eastern regionals and pick up the extra gate return. They're screwing themselves out of a lot of money by not doing that.
[/q]
I was talking about the big picture. Cornell isn't gonna generate TV ratings at the Frozen Four whereas the Michigan's, Minnesota's, and BC's will. Those three teams conveniently made out like bandits in this selection process while again, the Cornell's and CC's got screwed.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Mike Nevin (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:43PM
Cornell definitely got screwed on this one, but it was more luck than anything else. It was an odd set of randomn events -- CC losing, BC winning, the exact set of teams that ended up as the TUCs, etc. moreso than the selection commitee that conspired to screw us.
I think the constructive thing to do (if there is anything constructive to do at all) is to lobby for either a better objective system to decide who gets # 1 seeds, or to lobby for subjectivity being injected back into the process.
If the commitee considered current polls, recent performance, bonuses for conference championships etc, maybe that would actually improve things.
I think that one criteria for being a number one seed should be that it be conceivable that the selected team is actually the number one team in the country. Minnesota pretty much proved that they are not the best team in the country -- being clearly only third best in the WCHA. I could easily see a rule for the future in which no conference could contribute more than two number one seeds.
In general, I think that when the statisticians stormed the castle and took over the seeding process with their nearly mathematical calculation of who should be in a few years ago, they probably improved things for the better. But they have ignored the fact that the statistics of college hockey and PWR in particular are really imperfect, and end up giving extreme importance to otherwise insignificant games and teams. Maybe its time the commitee quit hiding behind the hard and fast process (well hard and fast except for DU/CC, apparently) and do its job by attempting to use their insight, and the wealth of knowlege available about college hockey to try and properly seed this thing.
I think the constructive thing to do (if there is anything constructive to do at all) is to lobby for either a better objective system to decide who gets # 1 seeds, or to lobby for subjectivity being injected back into the process.
If the commitee considered current polls, recent performance, bonuses for conference championships etc, maybe that would actually improve things.
I think that one criteria for being a number one seed should be that it be conceivable that the selected team is actually the number one team in the country. Minnesota pretty much proved that they are not the best team in the country -- being clearly only third best in the WCHA. I could easily see a rule for the future in which no conference could contribute more than two number one seeds.
In general, I think that when the statisticians stormed the castle and took over the seeding process with their nearly mathematical calculation of who should be in a few years ago, they probably improved things for the better. But they have ignored the fact that the statistics of college hockey and PWR in particular are really imperfect, and end up giving extreme importance to otherwise insignificant games and teams. Maybe its time the commitee quit hiding behind the hard and fast process (well hard and fast except for DU/CC, apparently) and do its job by attempting to use their insight, and the wealth of knowlege available about college hockey to try and properly seed this thing.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Stephen Turner (---.nyc.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:51PM
The process should be more subjective, as I suggested to them 2 years ago at the Frozen Four. Minnesota gets 10 TUC wins against Mankato and St. Cloud, and goes 2-4-1 against Mich Tech and Anchorage which doesn't count. Plus Brown drops out of the TUC, which would have made all the difference. Everything worked against us this year, and it totally sucks. Impossible to get to Minnesota, and I was really looking forward to going to the games next weekend.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 12:56PM
[Q]Stephen Turner Wrote:
The process should be more subjective, as I suggested to them 2 years ago at the Frozen Four. Minnesota gets 10 TUC wins against Mankato and St. Cloud, and goes 2-4-1 against Mich Tech and Anchorage which doesn't count. Plus Brown drops out of the TUC, which would have made all the difference. Everything worked against us this year, and it totally sucks. Impossible to get to Minnesota, and I was really looking forward to going to the games next weekend.[/q]
There are clearly flaws in the TUC process, and I'd like to see the RPI weightings changed. St. Cloud a TUC? Gimme a break.
The process should be more subjective, as I suggested to them 2 years ago at the Frozen Four. Minnesota gets 10 TUC wins against Mankato and St. Cloud, and goes 2-4-1 against Mich Tech and Anchorage which doesn't count. Plus Brown drops out of the TUC, which would have made all the difference. Everything worked against us this year, and it totally sucks. Impossible to get to Minnesota, and I was really looking forward to going to the games next weekend.[/q]
There are clearly flaws in the TUC process, and I'd like to see the RPI weightings changed. St. Cloud a TUC? Gimme a break.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: abmarks (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 01:35PM
Calgari- FF ratings? The ratings are next to zero REGARDLESS of who is playing. If you are arguing about money, I think gate attendance is a better argument.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: mjh89 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 01:46PM
The national championship game, primetime on ESPN, will probably do alright during a season in which there is no NHL. Yes, I know the NHL prometime ratings for ESPN are not great.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: abmarks (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 01:48PM
Go back and check the NCAA final four ratings - I'm pretty sure you'll find them down below candlepin bowling. I don't expect any NHL to NCAA Crossover. Lots of NHL final watchers are facetimers.
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 02:54PM
[Q]Mike Nevin Wrote:
Cornell definitely got screwed on this one, but it was more luck than anything else. It was an odd set of randomn events -- CC losing, BC winning, the exact set of teams that ended up as the TUCs, etc. moreso than the selection commitee that conspired to screw us.
[/q]
And our 0-2-2 record from 11/12 to 11/20 had nothing to do with it? A loss to DC and a tie with UVM, both bubble teams didn't help one bit. And what about the loss and tie to Michigan State?
And what about the loss to BC in Florida?
And what about the loss to archrival Harvard?
Or the Colgate tie?
[Q]Mike Nevin Wrote:
Maybe its time the commitee quit hiding behind the hard and fast process (well hard and fast except for DU/CC, apparently) and do its job by attempting to use their insight, and the wealth of knowlege available about college hockey to try and properly seed this thing.
[/q]
Bleh. They do that in lacrosse and IT SUCKS SWEATY UNWASHED MONKEYBALLS.
Cornell definitely got screwed on this one, but it was more luck than anything else. It was an odd set of randomn events -- CC losing, BC winning, the exact set of teams that ended up as the TUCs, etc. moreso than the selection commitee that conspired to screw us.
[/q]
And our 0-2-2 record from 11/12 to 11/20 had nothing to do with it? A loss to DC and a tie with UVM, both bubble teams didn't help one bit. And what about the loss and tie to Michigan State?
And what about the loss to BC in Florida?
And what about the loss to archrival Harvard?
Or the Colgate tie?
[Q]Mike Nevin Wrote:
Maybe its time the commitee quit hiding behind the hard and fast process (well hard and fast except for DU/CC, apparently) and do its job by attempting to use their insight, and the wealth of knowlege available about college hockey to try and properly seed this thing.
[/q]
Bleh. They do that in lacrosse and IT SUCKS SWEATY UNWASHED MONKEYBALLS.
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:16PM
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice.[/q]
Yeah, playing in Minnesota sucks. My first thought: I wonder if the boys will be spending some time in Lake Placid this week. I hear we might have some connections up there...
The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice.[/q]
Yeah, playing in Minnesota sucks. My first thought: I wonder if the boys will be spending some time in Lake Placid this week. I hear we might have some connections up there...
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: KP '06 (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:25PM
[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:
calgARI '07 Wrote:
The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice.[/Q]
Yeah, playing in Minnesota sucks. My first thought: I wonder if the boys will be spending some time in Lake Placid this week. I hear we might have some connections up there...
[/q]
When's the last time we played on an Olympic sheet?
Michigan State was NHL-size, correct?
Re: We let them decide it on the ice
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:37PM
[Q]KP '06 Wrote:
Scersk '97 Wrote:
calgARI '07 Wrote:
The committee was sure nice to Minnesota in giving them three far away schools and three schools that don't play on Olympic Ice.[/Q]
Yeah, playing in Minnesota sucks. My first thought: I wonder if the boys will be spending some time in Lake Placid this week. I hear we might have some connections up there...
[/Q]
When's the last time we played on an Olympic sheet?
Michigan State was NHL-size, correct?[/q]
Yes, Munn is NHL-size.
Ohio State played its first two games on an Olympic-sheet at UNH, losing to both UNH and St. Cloud, 5-1 and 3-1 respectively.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
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