Jersey

For those going to Florida I thought you may like this short article from the Foster's Daily Democrat in Dover, NH from today...


Wednesday, December 27, 2006
UNH to unveil new hockey jersey

Fropm Staff Reports


DURHAM — The University of New Hampshire men's ice hockey team will unveil a new jersey when it takes to the ice this weekend in the Florida College Hockey Classic on Dec. 29-30.

The Nike Swift Hockey Jersey, first unveiled to the global stage in Torino, Italy in February, makes its college hockey debut this weekend as several NCAA teams will pull on the revolutionary uniform for the first time. In addition to the Wildcats, Nike and Nike Bauer Hockey developed jerseys for eight other men's teams to wear during upcoming holiday college hockey tournaments. Cornell University, Denver University, University of Maine, Miami University, University of Michigan, Michigan State University, University of North Dakota and Ohio State University will also have access to the jerseys when the teams take to the ice this weekend. In addition, the UNH and Cornell University women's teams were also provided Swift jerseys and will wear them later in the season.

DFORD '94
Nike and Nike Bauer Hockey developed jerseys for eight other men's teams to wear during upcoming holiday college hockey tournaments. Cornell University

Please, PLEASE tell me they're not going to change the lettering or add a logo or any of that crap just to make it look all "futuristic". Anyone have the inside scoop on what these things look like?

Kyle

I will be shocked and disappointed if they changed the design. New technology, fine. New look, not good.

The whole NHL is going to this new uniform design and concept next year and early reports are that it is horrendous. There was a player interviewed about it and he just ripped it apart. Not sure if the new college uniforms relate to the new ones in the NHL.

Ari is right. They are ugly.

For example:

I found a prototype of the uniform.

looks more like a soccer jersey if you ask me

I found a press release from the Torino Winter Olympics that gives an overview:

Look at Page 3

Looks good on paper, just not on people.

Yet another example of the NHL alienating fans they already have in order to appeal to new fans.

calgARI '07
Yet another example of the NHL alienating fans they already have in order to appeal to new fans.

I don't see why the new cut is such a problem. I don't think it would affect my enjoyment of the experience.

My complaint (premature as it is, given that we know nothing... both a general statement and in this case specifically) relates to Cornell in particular: if the new cut comes with a hugging bear logo replacing the simple, classic, arched "CORNELL" on the front, I will be very unhappy. That will negatively affect my enjoyment of the experience, no matter how dumb that sentiment might be.

Kyle

krose
if the new cut comes with a hugging bear logo

[www.insidecollegehockey.com]

I'm sure the "waist lockdown gasket system" alone will be worth at least two goals per game.

one word: COOPERALLS

I hope the team plays well on Friday to take our attention off those hideous things passing as jerseys, according to INCH.

Have I missed something? I still haven't seen Cornell's version of the new jerseys. The others are uniformally ghastly -- a pitch to our inner 12-year old ("Just give it racing stripes, Daddy!"

I suppose booing our own players as a protest is out?

Trotsky
I suppose booing our own players as a protest is out?

Shouldn't be hard to boo the jerseys without booing the players.

"JERSEYS!"... "SUCK!!!!!'

(assuming the COrnell ones do, of course.

KeithK

Trotsky
I suppose booing our own players as a protest is out?

Shouldn't be hard to boo the jerseys without booing the players.

"JERSEYS!"... "SUCK!!!!!'

(assuming the COrnell ones do, of course.

Ugly Jerseys *clap clap clap clap clap*

Al DeFlorio
I'm sure the "waist lockdown gasket system" alone will be worth at least two goals per game.

It'll make us a perennial powerhouse!

Vertical stripes?!!! Vertical Stripes?!!! VERTICAL FUCKING STRIPES?!!!

Are you kidding me?!!!

These are hockey sweaters, not mid 80's mets uniforms. Loose, simple with horizontal stripes please! Does no one understand that one of things that makes a jersey classic is not constantly changing it?

And the idea that these jerseys increase performance is absolute bullshit. The only team not to wear the swift jerseys at Torino? Sweden, who happened to win the whole thing. Somehow those cunning Swedes managed to do without the .000001% reduction in drag.

This is just another example of non-hockey executives butting into a sport that they know nothing about.

The new jerseys would be a lot less hideous if the aerodynamic improvements were combined with horizontal stripes and classic fonts. Why is it necessary to turn the WJC or Florida College Classic into the Tour de France?

KeithK

Trotsky
I suppose booing our own players as a protest is out?

Shouldn't be hard to boo the jerseys without booing the players.

"JERSEYS!"... "SUCK!!!!!'

(assuming the COrnell ones do, of course.

Remember the operative words in the press release: "Cornell...will also have access to the jerseys when the teams take to the ice this weekend."

I think that pretty much means that it'll be the choice of the team/coach whether or not to use them. Knowing Schafer's proclivity to defer to tradition...

Of course there were those one-time 3rd jerseys which were auctioned for charity, but even those were tied to the tradition of the program.

And remember: Estero isn't nearly as close to Ithaca as Hamilton is if the wrong jerseys get packed this time.

RichH

KeithK

Trotsky
I suppose booing our own players as a protest is out?

Shouldn't be hard to boo the jerseys without booing the players.

"JERSEYS!"... "SUCK!!!!!'

(assuming the COrnell ones do, of course.

Remember the operative words in the press release: "Cornell...will also have access to the jerseys when the teams take to the ice this weekend."

I think that pretty much means that it'll be the choice of the team/coach whether or not to use them. Knowing Schafer's proclivity to defer to tradition...

Of course there were those one-time 3rd jerseys which were auctioned for charity, but even those were tied to the tradition of the program.

And remember: Estero isn't nearly as close to Ithaca as Hamilton is if the wrong jerseys get packed this time.

But is the team budgeted for more than two sets of jerseys? Arguing over tradition vs. supposed improved performance is great and all, but ultimately it's going to come down to the almighty buck. (This assumes they won't continue using last year's jerseys, of course.)

Will
But is the team budgeted for more than two sets of jerseys? Arguing over tradition vs. supposed improved performance is great and all, but ultimately it's going to come down to the almighty buck. (This assumes they won't continue using last year's jerseys, of course.)

I wouldn't buy that as an excuse. I can't picture Harvard, for example, dressing themselves in similar Halloween-like costumes just to save the cost of a set of jerseys. At some point a great institution's values and respect for tradition should influence decisions.

With the high pinched waist, it's not very flattering to players with large hips and a small chest. An XXL on Topher would probably rest at the normal waistline, though.

The design sounds like it will work okay for a radio broadcast.

One hopes Nike is providing the first sets free to trumpet this, er, advance in sports apparel technology. Maybe the jersey numbers could light up and blink (little LEDs?) on the player who scores and glow at full and half intensity for the first and second assists?

Oh my god people they are just jerseys to be used for the tournament! We haven't even seen Cornell's. I really don't understand what the big fuss is about. If you are going to let a jersey ruin the game for you, well that is just sad.

Besides they aren't the most hideous things ever, look at Ohio State's new jerseys. And on the topic of jerseys, I personally consider Harvard's and Dartmouth's Reebok(?) jerseys to be much classier and better looking.

Speaking of jerseys, has anyone heard anything about when last year's jerseys will be put on sale to the public? Did it already happen and I missed it?

ebilmes
Speaking of jerseys, has anyone heard anything about when last year's jerseys will be put on sale to the public? Did it already happen and I missed it?

I bought Pegs' home jersey on Dec 7th. There were a few left at that time. I apologize for not being able to post anything here. If I had, my wife would have figured out that Pegs' jersey would one of her Christmas gifts.

redice

ebilmes
Speaking of jerseys, has anyone heard anything about when last year's jerseys will be put on sale to the public? Did it already happen and I missed it?

I bought Pegs' home jersey on Dec 7th. There were a few left at that time. I apologize for not being able to post anything here. If I had, my wife would have figured out that Pegs' jersey would one of her Christmas gifts.

Yeah, I had to lay low as well, so as not to set off any alarms. Bill Reynolds' e-mail went out at the end of November. I picked up Cam's Red #14. No idea if there's anything left at this point, but it's always worth a call to Bill to find out. His e-mail is listed in the FAQs: [www.elynah.com] and he sends out his phone number on the e-mail: 607-255-1318.

Good luck.

I have a Louis jersey from last year,
They went on sale on November 30.
I am almost positive that they are sold out, seeing as not even 3 hours after I got the e-mail from Bill that morning, many of the jersey's were already spoken for.

ebilmes
Speaking of jerseys, has anyone heard anything about when last year's jerseys will be put on sale to the public? Did it already happen and I missed it?

I picked up Ryan O'Byrne's home #2 just last week, at which point there were still a few left.

Sorry to disappoint, but I doubt that's actually OB's. They dug out all the old jerseys along with the new ones. There were 3 or 4 #2, #4, and several others. Even just after the e-mail went out, most of the good jerseys were gone. Could be a Travis Bell or something. Check the CCM logo placement.

You can also tell, atleast on my Louis one by where the name plate was. I can still see where they took off the letters to spell out CHABOT.

CowbellGuy
Sorry to disappoint, but I doubt that's actually OB's. They dug out all the old jerseys along with the new ones. There were 3 or 4 #2, #4, and several others. Even just after the e-mail went out, most of the good jerseys were gone. Could be a Travis Bell or something. Check the CCM logo placement.

Nothing disappointing about a Bell. I've got one. And maybe you've got a Ratushny that they found behind a locker.

Rob NH
Ugly Jerseys *clap clap clap clap clap*

"Those jerseys are an embarassment to Andy Noel. And Andy Noel SUCKS!"

[theithacajournal.com]

Here's the best shot I got of the new jerseys. Different font on the back, smaller nameplate, and those horrendous vertical stripes on the sides.

I have to go rinse my eyes under the faucet now.

ebilmes
Here's the best shot I got of the new jerseys. Different font on the back, smaller nameplate, and those horrendous vertical stripes on the sides.

Thanks for sharing the photo.

The font of the numbers and nameplate are identical to those on the jerseys Nike has made for international hockey. If the Soviet Union still had a unified hockey team, the Cornell jerseys would be identical to the Soviet jerseys, aside from "Cornell" and "CCCP."

I must be getting soft-hearted. I don't absolutely hate them. I don't ever want to see them at Lynah, either, but there's something old fashioned / ungainly about them that I don't mind.

Now burn them.

Trotsky
I must be getting soft-hearted. I don't absolutely hate them. I don't ever want to see them at Lynah, either, but there's something old fashioned / ungainly about them that I don't mind.

Now burn them.

In person, I didn't think they were bad. I didn't even remember we were wearing anything different after a few minutes, I could do without the vertical stripe, but most of the time it was hidden by arms and was really no big deal. Give it a redesign and I don't expect to have objections.

My biggest problem with the jerseys is the font. The nameplates especially have narrow letters that make them difficult to read from a distance.

I think the consensus was that we didn't mind the new cut or fabric as long as it was classic styling. It wasn't that far off from the usual Cornell uniform though, unlike UNH's, which had a weird horizontal light grey stripe under the numbers on the back.

Al DeFlorio
I'm sure the "waist lockdown gasket system" alone will be worth at least two goals per game.

actualy now that you mention it.....

CU 5
UNH 2

cornell's average goals for before UNH 3.5

cbuckser

ebilmes
Here's the best shot I got of the new jerseys. Different font on the back, smaller nameplate, and those horrendous vertical stripes on the sides.

Thanks for sharing the photo.

The font of the numbers and nameplate are identical to those on the jerseys Nike has made for international hockey. If the Soviet Union still had a unified hockey team, the Cornell jerseys would be identical to the Soviet jerseys, aside from "Cornell" and "CCCP."

Good. That'd be another source of game-worn jerseys. You go over with Levis, come back with a jersey. Who wants a game-worn T-34?

McQuaid's a Jesuit school. Don't they believe the ends justify the means? Those orange and red rings on the sleeves would be forbidden by the Geneva convention but probably cause enough disorientation of the opposing goalie to be worth those two goals a game.

Those colors are usually associated with the Danger High Voltage warning signs outside NYSEG transformer stations.

The jerseys look bad on first viewing. Is it possible if you're getting old or just a young traditionalist, different equals bad? It took a long time to get used to baggy basketball shorts and now it's the Bill Bradley-era shorts that look odd. The Chris Bangle BMWs of the past five years looked bizarre at first, now lots of others are aping the designs (see the tail of a Lexus), and BMW design looks, well, less weird.

Some jersey designs look good up close and lousy from a distance. Goalie helmets are like that, too.

What do the players think? Ari, you heard anything? If players and recruits like them, then they're good. Maybe the lockdown grommets help? I've seen a lot of HS hockey where the jerseys ride up so much, they're more like halter tops. Maybe the vertical stripe under the arm helps the referee notice high sticking more.

That said, they're definitely going to be an acquired taste.

umm.. the mcquaid team is wearing the Bruins colors. The ugly is IHS.

If the Opus Dei had a hockey team, they'd wear those jerseys.

evilnaturedrobot
These are hockey sweaters, not mid 80's mets uniforms. Loose, simple with horizontal stripes please! Does no one understand that one of things that makes a jersey classic is not constantly changing it?

And the idea that these jerseys increase performance is absolute bullshit. The only team not to wear the swift jerseys at Torino? Sweden, who happened to win the whole thing. Somehow those cunning Swedes managed to do without the .000001% reduction in drag.

This is just another example of non-hockey executives butting into a sport that they know nothing about.

Sweden won in the old jerseys, so the new jerseys must not improve performance? Wow. . . there's a leap of logic. I heard wind tunnel testing showed that the old loose-fitting sweaters were the equivalent of skating with a sail strapped to your back, so new jerseys could easily improve *skating* performance. The PR reports show a 15% reduction in drag, so I'm guessing your made up number is a little bit off - I'd take 15% with a grain of salt, but even at half that it's a pretty substantial change. The jerseys are not going to suddenly make you a magnificent puck handler or a great passer or anything, and they're certainly not going to make a big difference in team performance. There's a lot more to hockey than just wind drag and skating speed, after all.

I also heard that one of the big problems Nike and other companies doing similar research has faced is the traditional mindset of most players and fans - this thread is a perfect example - and so they've been moderating their re-designs and sacrificing some of the performance improvements for the sake of keeping the design closer to the traditional jersey. After hearing that, I'm surprised they went with the vertical stripes - that's just bizarre, and is bound to get a much stronger negative reaction than the pinched waist. I didn't see them in person, but based on the picture of the Cornell jerseys the vertical stripes are the only change I would have noticed - and yes, they're ugly. If they'd kept the cosmetic look of the jersey - the lettering, the font, etc. - exactly as it was and just stuck it on the new form-fitting sweater I suspect this would have gone over better.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a negative reaction from the player and fan base about switching from wool sweaters to synthetic jerseys, too, whenever that happened. In my sport I always wore cotton shirts and swore I'd never change to these fancy expensive synthetic jerseys - I couldn't imagine how anyone could justify the cost, since I didn't think they'd be any more than a marginal improvement. My team bought wicking jerseys one year so I had to get one to match, and now I won't go back - roughly everything I wear when I play is wicking fabric now (yes, even the socks and underwear - and one pair of my cleats has a wicking liner, which makes no sense given the leather uppers). This gets ridiculously expensive (and smelly), but it's worth every penny. The point of this story is what you're used to plays a large role in what you think is "best" and until you get used to something different you'll think it's inferior, even if it's clearly a better option.

The Cornell page posted a few photos from the UNH game,

http://cornellbigred.cstv.com/sports/m-hockey/recaps/122906aaa.html

Click on "photo gallery" to access the terribly organized CSTV photo gallery viewer.

saff678
The Cornell page posted a few photos from the UNH game,

http://cornellbigred.cstv.com/sports/m-hockey/recaps/122906aaa.html

Click on "photo gallery" to access the terribly organized CSTV photo gallery viewer.

Thanks.

Interesting how the traditionally-fonted "Cornell" looks completely out of place with the rest of the fonts and stripes. I guess I don't have a big problem with the cut of the jersey, just with the look of all the stripes and lettering/numbering other than "Cornell."

Personally I don't like how the new cut accentuates the shapes of the pads under the jersey, but I suppose I'm just complaining about change. These Nike execs have been playing baseball on my front yard, gol darn it, and if they hit their ball through my window I'm not giving it back!

If they would just ditch the stripes and use the same color as the pants it could grow on me.

The color difference is interesting. Isn't there quite a bit of work done to stay true to a school's colors? With all the money spent on this jersey it shouldn't be asking a lot for the color to match the existing uniform.

I agree. The jersey cut isn't awful, but the whole solid color thing (lack of horizontal stripes) is pretty bad. The vertical stripes are just weird, lets hope they don't go with vertical strips on the socks like they had in the Olympics!

They really need more contrasting colors though, without much white, it just looks bad.

It's also pretty bad that the Nike Swoosh is almost the same size as the C or A on the jerseys....(best visible in photo 5 in the gallery).

Trotsky
I must be getting soft-hearted. I don't absolutely hate them. I don't ever want to see them at Lynah, either, but there's something old fashioned / ungainly about them that I don't mind.

Now burn them.

No getting soft-hearted here. Burn them!

Does anyone know, with certainty, if/when these new jerseys will be worn in the future?

redice
Does anyone know, with certainty, if/when these new jerseys will be worn in the future?

I think we need a poll. Among the possible choices:

1. Adopt them immediately
2. Wear them only against teams with outrageously ugly uniforms
3. Tell Nike where to stick them

Al DeFlorio

redice
Does anyone know, with certainty, if/when these new jerseys will be worn in the future?

I think we need a poll. Among the possible choices:
1. Adopt them immediately
2. Wear them only against teams with outrageously ugly uniforms
3. Tell Nike where to stick them

Al, would you considering makig it multiple choice:
[] Adopt them immediately
[] Wear them only against teams with outrageously ugly uniforms
[] Tell Nike where to stick them
[] Let's see what the white ones look like.
[] The red top needs more (preferably horizontal) white trim so we don't look like the Red Army team.
[] Go NASCAR-look: The Nike swoosh needs to be bigger, perhaps with an anti-drug motto underneath, Nike's URL above, a list of local stores stocking Nike, and a drop-in in-memory slot for, say, a 48 patch for President Ford.

Tom Lento
After hearing that, I'm surprised they went with the vertical stripes - that's just bizarre, and is bound to get a much stronger negative reaction than the pinched waist. I didn't see them in person, but based on the picture of the Cornell jerseys the vertical stripes are the only change I would have noticed - and yes, they're ugly. If they'd kept the cosmetic look of the jersey - the lettering, the font, etc. - exactly as it was and just stuck it on the new form-fitting sweater I suspect this would have gone over better.

That's pretty much the only complaint most of us have. We're a very protective fan base of our traditional look, and it's kind of neat to be able to know why our jersey is unique compared to BU, Wisconsin, and the Detroit Red Wings.

As I see it, the vertical striping and fonts are there for one reason only: Marketing/brand recognition. Nike is trying to get these out to as many teams as possible, since other manufacturers don't have these designs/improvements. Therefore, they need a common recognizable symbol...like a hood ornament of a car. So one glance from any angle will trigger in the minds of fans "hey, that's the new Swift(tm) jersey from <swoosh>." What they came up with: vertical stripes on the upper sleeve and a distinctive sans-serif font for numbering and lettering. Every Swift(tm) jersey from <swoosh> made, since its introduction in the 2006 Olympics, has had the vertical striping and that font. And corporate marketing machines are most always going to be stronger ($) than collegiate tradition.

On most teams, there are 2 color stripes on the sleeve. We got one. The presence also pushes the uni numbers up to the shoulder joint, which is also strange.

I'm all in favor of improved performance. But until they've been around for several years, I don't see the corporate branding breaking. I booed it, but when the puck dropped, I focused more on the players. That said, to re-stress the second sentence of my post, I'd rather not ditch the tradtional jerseys. At least until <swoosh> gives us our horizontal stripes back, or another company makes a similar jersey with non-restrictive color design requirements.

There are actually close to 20 jerseys still left. Like others have said, a lot of them are probably from a while ago, but they are by no means sold out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the new jerseys seem to be one solid color with the stripes stitched on. It's possible that they haven't figured out how to do multiple colors with the new material/build.

When did Ronald McDonald become the mascot for IHS?

Red Neophyte
When did Ronald McDonald become the mascot for IHS?

Priceless. Best laugh of the year (to-date).

Red Neophyte
When did Ronald McDonald become the mascot for IHS?

That's just mean. You're picking on a team that has almost as many former players in the NHL as Cornell does, managed to beat 2 top-10 teams last week, and has a goalie whose helmet matches his current uniform...lay off the Little Red.

ithacat

Red Neophyte
When did Ronald McDonald become the mascot for IHS?

That's just mean. You're picking on a team that has almost as many former players in the NHL as Cornell does, managed to beat 2 top-10 teams last week, and has a goalie whose helmet matches his current uniform...lay off the Little Red.

It may be mean, but sometimes the truth hurts. .. I'll take white vertical stripes over that.

RichH
I'm all in favor of improved performance. But until they've been around for several years, I don't see the corporate branding breaking. I booed it, but when the puck dropped, I focused more on the players. That said, to re-stress the second sentence of my post, I'd rather not ditch the tradtional jerseys. At least until <swoosh> gives us our horizontal stripes back, or another company makes a similar jersey with non-restrictive color design requirements.

I think you're right, and this is probably an example of marketing winning out over product design and engineering. The design teams were trying to be sensitive to tradition, but maybe marketing wanted a distinctive look for branding purposes.

There was a rumor on the USCHO board that the jerseys were being tested for fit, and if the players liked the way they felt then they could be manufactured to the school's specs for the colors, fonts, etc. I have no idea if that's true or not, but if so that's good news. The importance of marketing during the test-bed phase of the jersey might keep Nike from making traditional-looking jerseys right off (which I think is a mistake, personally - make them to the school's specs right off, instead of foisting some other design on them, and you're more likely to make a sale), but I doubt Cornell will buy the new jerseys if they don't have the Cornell look. Personally, I'd hate to see them switch to the look of the swift jerseys, and I think everyone here agrees, but I think I'd have no problem with a swift jersey with the same logo, striping, and number placement and fonts they've been using on the regular jerseys.

Tom Lento
...I think I'd have no problem with a swift jersey with the same logo, striping, and number placement and fonts they've been using on the regular jerseys.

Right. If, in fact, there is some slight performance advantage to the cut, I suppose that's hard to argue with. But I don't think vertical stripes or European-style fonts are more aerodynamic or lighter in weight than what we're accustomed to.

KeithK

ithacat

Red Neophyte
When did Ronald McDonald become the mascot for IHS?

That's just mean. You're picking on a team that has almost as many former players in the NHL as Cornell does, managed to beat 2 top-10 teams last week, and has a goalie whose helmet matches his current uniform...lay off the Little Red.

It may be mean, but sometimes the truth hurts. .. I'll take white vertical stripes over that.

You mean the Ronald really became their mascot? I thought it was a little bear. Well the good news is that I just saw the highlights of tonight's road game and their away unis are much nicer.

ithacat
You mean the Ronald really became their mascot? I thought it was a little bear.

I thought the Little Red's animal avatar was a skunk. No, seriously.

jtwcornell91

ithacat
You mean the Ronald really became their mascot? I thought it was a little bear.

I thought the Little Red's animal avatar was a skunk. No, seriously.

Depends which IHS era you're talkin' about: [www.ithacahighalumni.com]

Al DeFlorio
I'm sure the "waist lockdown gasket system" alone will be worth at least two goals per game.

That's what I use in the office to avoid any sort of problems. They haven't invented anti-Viagra yet as far as I'm aware.

It was a skunh, named 'lil red. It is now a bear. We are attempting to bring back the skunk.

Tom Lento
Sweden won in the old jerseys, so the new jerseys must not improve performance? Wow. . . there's a leap of logic. I heard wind tunnel testing showed that the old loose-fitting sweaters were the equivalent of skating with a sail strapped to your back, so new jerseys could easily improve *skating* performance. The PR reports show a 15% reduction in drag, so I'm guessing your made up number is a little bit off - I'd take 15% with a grain of salt, but even at half that it's a pretty substantial change. The jerseys are not going to suddenly make you a magnificent puck handler or a great passer or anything, and they're certainly not going to make a big difference in team performance. There's a lot more to hockey than just wind drag and skating speed, after all.

I also heard that one of the big problems Nike and other companies doing similar research has faced is the traditional mindset of most players and fans - this thread is a perfect example - and so they've been moderating their re-designs and sacrificing some of the performance improvements for the sake of keeping the design closer to the traditional jersey. After hearing that, I'm surprised they went with the vertical stripes - that's just bizarre, and is bound to get a much stronger negative reaction than the pinched waist. I didn't see them in person, but based on the picture of the Cornell jerseys the vertical stripes are the only change I would have noticed - and yes, they're ugly. If they'd kept the cosmetic look of the jersey - the lettering, the font, etc. - exactly as it was and just stuck it on the new form-fitting sweater I suspect this would have gone over better.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a negative reaction from the player and fan base about switching from wool sweaters to synthetic jerseys, too, whenever that happened. In my sport I always wore cotton shirts and swore I'd never change to these fancy expensive synthetic jerseys - I couldn't imagine how anyone could justify the cost, since I didn't think they'd be any more than a marginal improvement. My team bought wicking jerseys one year so I had to get one to match, and now I won't go back - roughly everything I wear when I play is wicking fabric now (yes, even the socks and underwear - and one pair of my cleats has a wicking liner, which makes no sense given the leather uppers). This gets ridiculously expensive (and smelly), but it's worth every penny. The point of this story is what you're used to plays a large role in what you think is "best" and until you get used to something different you'll think it's inferior, even if it's clearly a better option.

1. Yes I realize that: Sweden won so there is no improvement in performance is a week deduction. It was late at night and I was a bit worked up so I will admit to being a bit flippant here.

However, the real question is: if everybody switches to these jerseys (which is what Nike and Reebok are pushing for) then doesn't it all cancel out anyway? In the end nobody will benefit from the drag reduction and we'll have thrown away a classic look for nothing.

2. My main issue here is that is a microcosm of the greater problem in hockey: executives from non-hockey backgrounds making decisions about a sport they don't really understand in order to market it to an American public that just doesn't care. New jerseys, the instigator rule, shootouts, NHL expansion into southern markets...

All of these have been implemented without consulting the hard-core hockey fan (who is probably the most dedicated fan in north American sports.) Will new jerseys kill the sport? Of course not, but I haven’t met a single hockey fan that wants them (most hate them), the only party that does are the apparel corporations that have never treated hockey as much of a priority.

I buy tickets to both NHL and College Hockey games, I spend money on jerseys, sticks, skates and pads. Yet neither my fellow hockey fans nor I are ever consulted before an exec from nike or Reebok decides to change the jersey that my team has worn for three quarters of a century or a lawyer with a basketball background decides to legislate grit and toughness out of the sport.

And its all just an attempt to get Joe Whatever in Phoenix to buy a Coyotes ticket when it's perfectly clear that the average American does not and will never care about hockey.

Al DeFlorio
Does anyone know, with certainty, if/when these new jerseys will be worn in the future?

I still don't quite understand all the fuss about this issue. Yeah, I thought the jerseys were pretty ugly upon viewing the photo galleries from Estero, but from what I've understood from the article about the new jerseys, it seems like their use in holiday tournaments was only for TEST or prototype purposes.

I didn't read anything in any article indicating that any team was going to be using these jerseys for regular games at any point in the future. Maybe I misunderstood, but all I gathered was that Nike was looking for an outlet to test the new style (not necessarily showcase them), and the holiday tournaments provided that outlet. From there, I would think Nike would go back and evaluate the results, team reactions etc., and modify them if necessary...and THEN perhaps pitch the product to team equipment staff in the future.

I don't buy that this was only a test of the jerseys. If it were, they'd have given them to a few teams during less highly publicized games, or even scrimmages. This was a test of the PR behind the jerseys. If I were the exec in charge of these jerseys, I'd be reading boards just like this one to see what people do and don't like so that I can tweak either the jerseys or the pitch.

I really don't get the problem with the jerseys. The ones in Florida weren't that bad, and my only qualms with them were the change in font and the stripe on the shoulder. Both of these have nothing to do with the design of the jersey itself (only the way that particular one was made). If they just make the font the way the old one is and get rid of that stripe, I could care less how they feel to the players, because they'd look the same to me.

In short, I think it's much ado about nothing. The design itself isn't at all different from a spectator's perspective; it's just the way they put the letters and decorative elements on.

You don't have to buy anything. Seriously, get over it! The Nike representative said that this was just a test run to see if the players and teams liked the feel of the jerseys and if they did that later on they would change the design/color scheme. As for Nike executives, I highly doubt they are reading this thread; they have interns for that. They only gave the jerseys to 9 teams and said on various interviews that they were just a test to see if they players liked them, there's nto much more than that to the whole jersey saga. Why make such a huge deal over a test-run jersey?

I agree. And as a further note, regarding the "tradition" involved... look at a picture of Hobey Baker sometime, or Bobby Orr. Their gloves are different, their helmets are different (insofar as they didn't wear one), their skates are different -- hell, even their jerseys are different. Looking at some quick NHL pictures from olden days (research source is google images), seems to me that jerseys used to be tighter fitting than they are now.

My offhand guess is that jerseys used to fit, like any piece of clothing does. Then bigger pads came along and made it hard to put on a jersey unless it was a few sizes too big, so the jerseys got looser. Now it looks like Nike's putting out something that's the best of both worlds, and as far as I'm concerned, all the power to 'em, if the players like the feel.

Let's just hope -- or be confident in the market's power to ensure -- that when these jerseys go prime-time, teams will get to choose how they look.

Omni
As for Nike executives, I highly doubt they are reading this thread; they have interns for that.

Touche. I should have said that if I were an exec, I'd have someone reading these boards. Same difference.

evilnaturedrobot
1. Yes I realize that: Sweden won so there is no improvement in performance is a week deduction. It was late at night and I was a bit worked up so I will admit to being a bit flippant here.

However, the real question is: if everybody switches to these jerseys (which is what Nike and Reebok are pushing for) then doesn't it all cancel out anyway? In the end nobody will benefit from the drag reduction and we'll have thrown away a classic look for nothing.

2. My main issue here is that is a microcosm of the greater problem in hockey: executives from non-hockey backgrounds making decisions about a sport they don't really understand in order to market it to an American public that just doesn't care. New jerseys, the instigator rule, shootouts, NHL expansion into southern markets...

All of these have been implemented without consulting the hard-core hockey fan (who is probably the most dedicated fan in north American sports.) Will new jerseys kill the sport? Of course not, but I haven’t met a single hockey fan that wants them (most hate them), the only party that does are the apparel corporations that have never treated hockey as much of a priority.

And its all just an attempt to get Joe Whatever in Phoenix to buy a Coyotes ticket when it's perfectly clear that the average American does not and will never care about hockey.

You may be right about the rule changes and whatnot, but the jerseys have nothing to do with getting Joe Whatever to buy tickets, or even jerseys for that matter. New logos and colors sell jerseys, not new research into materials and aerodynamic designs.

Based on what I've heard from a designer at Nike, the jerseys were developed to help improve player performance. Hockey jerseys haven't had a major update in YEARS. Current jerseys may not be the old wool sweaters, which I imagine is something the players can be thankful for, but they're hardly of the technical quality of jerseys in other sports, either.

The logos and whatnot are silly looking, and maybe they should consult with the fans over that, or at least stick to traditional patterns, but the technical aspects of the jersey only really matters to one group - the players. If the players feel they restrict their movements and the material is uncomfortable, then the jersey is a flop. If they feel the jersey allows them to move freely and the tests indicate reduced drag and better wicking performance, then the jersey is a success, and whoever cares can quibble over the cosmetic aspects of the jersey design. The fans hate them because they're ugly, not because they're tapered. They complain about that because it's been pointed out and they say they hate it, but if Nike had been smarter about implementation the average fan wouldn't have even noticed the switch. I think they totally blew it with the bizarre striping and font decisions, honestly, and if they'd been smarter we wouldn't be having this discussion.

As for your first point - I can tell you from experience, playing a sport at a pretty high level, I don't care if a jersey gives me a marginal advantage over my competition or not. If a wicking jersey provides me with improved comfort and performance over cotton (and it does), I'm going to wear it, and I'm not going to suggest that everyone else in the sport switch back to cotton with me just because we all wear wicking jerseys and therefore none of us is gaining an advantage over the others. We're gaining an advantage over the cotton jerseys, and that's all that matters. That's what the marketing gimmick is all about - improved performance as a result of this jersey. It doesn't matter if everyone else upgrades or not - you should do it because it'll help you, because it's better. Touting improved performance is a marketing gimmick, but if there's truth behind it, and if it's noticeable to the wearer, everyone will eventually upgrade because the players will demand it, whether the fans like it or not.

Tom Lento
I think they totally blew it with the bizarre striping and font decisions, honestly, and if they'd been smarter we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Of course, then none of us would know what a Nike Swift jersey is. All press is good press as long as they spell your name correctly, right? I wouldn't be surprised if the bizarre stripes and fonts were done purposely to get people talking about how much they don't like it, so that at least when Nike rolls out the final versions, which will look more or less like what people are used to for their team jerseys, the name "Nike Swift" won't be forgotten. Otherwise it's just another jersey, and who cares?

ftyuv
I wouldn't be surprised if the bizarre stripes and fonts were done purposely to get people talking about how much they don't like it, so that at least when Nike rolls out the final versions, which will look more or less like what people are used to for their team jerseys, the name "Nike Swift" won't be forgotten.

If true, that's messed up. Shame on them.

Liz '05

ftyuv
I wouldn't be surprised if the bizarre stripes and fonts were done purposely to get people talking about how much they don't like it, so that at least when Nike rolls out the final versions, which will look more or less like what people are used to for their team jerseys, the name "Nike Swift" won't be forgotten.

If true, that's messed up. Shame on them.

New Coke!

Here is an interesting article describing CCM/Reebok's plans to do the same thing in the NHL.

[sports.espn.go.com]

This is an interesting remark about the change from horizontal striping:

Terry Fei-"I'm a curmudgeon about most things, but I'm going to try to keep an open mind. To me, the most potentially objectionable aspect of all this will turn out to be the discouragement of traditional horizontal designs, because anything stretching across the front of the jersey could be a problem and thus archaic."

As a side note, Frei made a pretty funny comment when ranking the NHL jerseys:

4. Blackhawks- The PC-NCAA might not want the Blackhawks to host a regional, but this is another logo and design that stands the test of time. Maybe it's because the Wirtzes didn't want to pay anyone to come up with something new, but old works.

Liz '05

ftyuv
I wouldn't be surprised if the bizarre stripes and fonts were done purposely to get people talking about how much they don't like it, so that at least when Nike rolls out the final versions, which will look more or less like what people are used to for their team jerseys, the name "Nike Swift" won't be forgotten.

If true, that's messed up. Shame on them.

Modern marketing practices seem to suggest a corporate attitude that, if we can annoy them, we have their attention. Since gaining the attention of their constituents/consumers is the goal, they feel successful (while we feel annoyed).

cth95
Here is an interesting article describing CCM/Reebok's plans to do the same thing in the NHL.

[sports.espn.go.com]

This is an interesting remark about the change from horizontal striping:

Terry Fei-"I'm a curmudgeon about most things, but I'm going to try to keep an open mind. To me, the most potentially objectionable aspect of all this will turn out to be the discouragement of traditional horizontal designs, because anything stretching across the front of the jersey could be a problem and thus archaic."

why can't they just use the new wicking material and keep the loose cut and traditional designs? why must the uniform be completely redesigned for the players to benefit from modern fabric technology?

evilnaturedrobot
why can't they just use the new wicking material and keep the loose cut and traditional designs? why must the uniform be completely redesigned for the players to benefit from modern fabric technology?

In most sports, that would be enough. In the case of hockey, the traditional cut increases wind drag by up to 15% over the tapered design(if you believe the marketing buzz - I suspect the on-ice effect is smaller since players won't be skating full speed at all times). Again, if I were a player, I would probably want that taper *provided* that it doesn't restrict movement.

redice

Liz '05

ftyuv
I wouldn't be surprised if the bizarre stripes and fonts were done purposely to get people talking about how much they don't like it, so that at least when Nike rolls out the final versions, which will look more or less like what people are used to for their team jerseys, the name "Nike Swift" won't be forgotten.

If true, that's messed up. Shame on them.

Modern marketing practices seem to suggest a corporate attitude that, if we can annoy them, we have their attention. Since gaining the attention of their constituents/consumers is the goal, they feel successful (while we feel annoyed).

Head On. Apply directly to the forehead. Head On. Apply directly to the forehead. Head On. Apply directly to the forehead.



I remember the product name. I remember it so well that I will NEVER EVER buy it. Is that a good thing?

Jeff Hopkins '82

redice

Liz '05

ftyuv
I wouldn't be surprised if the bizarre stripes and fonts were done purposely to get people talking about how much they don't like it, so that at least when Nike rolls out the final versions, which will look more or less like what people are used to for their team jerseys, the name "Nike Swift" won't be forgotten.

If true, that's messed up. Shame on them.

Modern marketing practices seem to suggest a corporate attitude that, if we can annoy them, we have their attention. Since gaining the attention of their constituents/consumers is the goal, they feel successful (while we feel annoyed).

Head On. Apply directly to the forehead. Head On. Apply directly to the forehead. Head On. Apply directly to the forehead.



I remember the product name. I remember it so well that I will NEVER EVER buy it. Is that a good thing?

I once met a marketing major (not from Cornell) who told me that overall, yes, it's a good thing. It was before the head-on era, but back then a series of Coors commercials were pissing me off, and I asked her that exact question -- is it good if I remember the brand but in such a way as to boycott it? She said it is. I don't know if it's a marketing fad that they all tell themselves is true, or whether it's just that any ad that's successful in pissing off 10% of its viewers actually gets the brand name -- and not the anger -- stuck in the rest of the viewers' heads. But there you go.

Swift on. Apply directly to the waist. Swift on. Apply directly to the waist. Swift on. Apply decals from your soapbox car directly to the arm.

ftyuv
is it good if I remember the brand but in such a way as to boycott it? She said it is. I don't know if it's a marketing fad that they all tell themselves is true

The goal of marketing is not to sell product. The goal of marketing is to secure more attention and resources for marketing.

Every time I see this thread I expect it to be about Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen or Ho Ho Kus.

ugarte
Every time I see this thread I expect it to be about Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen or Ho Ho Kus.

Big hair creates 15% more wind-resistance drag.

Beeeej

ugarte
Every time I see this thread I expect it to be about Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen or Ho Ho Kus.

Big hair creates 15% more wind-resistance drag.

Interesting. That explains my time in the 40.

Other than that it goes on your head, I still have no idea what the stuff is supposed to do.

Today it could be about the smell:

[www.cnn.com]

Killer
Today it could be about the smell:

[www.cnn.com]

Pretty sure that was just the stink of the Jets and Giants returning home.

Just wondering if anyone really knowing the jerseys could tell me what year this one might be.

I just got a Red #11 for my sister for a Christmas present. It is a CCM jersey, and must be fairly recent because the tag has ccm.com. It is only a 48 and differs slightly from the last few years. The white, horizontal stripe goes to the bottom of the jersey instead of finishing in red again like all of the jerseys in the elynah photos and like the one I got the first day they were available last year.

Now that I think of it, maybe it's from the women's team? I never said I was buying it for a girl, though.

cth95
Just wondering if anyone really knowing the jerseys could tell me what year this one might be.

I just got a Red #11 for my sister for a Christmas present. It is a CCM jersey, and must be fairly recent because the tag has ccm.com. It is only a 48 and differs slightly from the last few years. The white, horizontal stripe goes to the bottom of the jersey instead of finishing in red again like all of the jerseys in the elynah photos and like the one I got the first day they were available last year.

Now that I think of it, maybe it's from the women's team? I never said I was buying it for a girl, though.

If you got it from the issue room at Teagle, it's most definitely from the women's team. The Men's team has been using Nike jerseys for the last two seasons (current season included). All the non-goalie Men's jerseys have been size 56 for at least the past 8 seasons. The Women's team does use the "Red Wings" blanks for their jerseys (red sleeves with a white stripe on the home whites and white stripe on the bottom hem for the road reds), and as of last season, they still wore CCM jerseys:

[info.bemidjistate.edu]

I can make up a quick primer for recent Men's jerseys for those who bought some from recent years:

'05-'06: Nike, swoosh centered on chest, stitched-on ECAC logo
'04'-05: CCM, small CCM logo centered on chest
'03-'04: CCM, small CCM logo on left shoulder
'02-'03: identical (as far as I can tell) to '03-'04

There have been subtle lettering changes (height and thickness of lettering as well as subtle serif changes) over the past 10 years. There was a period in the late '90s where they switched to Bauer brand jerseys.

Oh, and congrats on the 100000th hockey forum post.

RichH

The Men's team has been using Nike jerseys for the last two seasons (current season included). All the non-goalie Men's jerseys have been size 56 for at least the past 8 seasons. The Women's team does use the "Red Wings" blanks for their jerseys (red sleeves with a white stripe on the home whites and white stripe on the bottom hem for the road reds), and as of last season, they still wore CCM jerseys:

[info.bemidjistate.edu]

Thanks for the info. Once I saw it was only a 48 I wondered if it might be a women's jersey. I am glad it is for my sister and not for me. I don't think pads would fit very well if I wore it. My sister is in her 2nd year (and 2nd year ever) playing at Potsdam High School. She asked me if I would get her a jersey after she saw the Chabot jersey (I play net so needed the big cut) I got last year. She will be pretty psyched. I think she will like the women's jersey even more than a men's size since she plans on playing in it.

RichH
Oh, and congrats on the 100000th hockey forum post.

That's pretty cool. I saw the post mentioning we were close, but I hadn't noticed that I won. Any awards for that?

cth95
My sister is in her 2nd year (and 2nd year ever) playing at Potsdam High School.

wouldn't she want a clarkson jersey if she is from that neck of the woods?

That would be her second choice. She and my mom go to a lot of the Clarkson women's games. Fortunately, I have had more of an influence on her than the geography.