Cornell lacrosse 2025

LGR14
Isn't the top 5, 10, etc. wins criteria based on RPI rather than the poll?

billhoward

LGR14
Isn't the top 5, 10, etc. wins criteria based on RPI rather than the poll?

For the NCAA determination of the best way to screw Cornell and seed us, say, sixth and in the Denver quarterfinal (yes, I know the quarterfinals are not in Denver but at Hofstra and Navy), I believe it is based on RPI. Third parties such as Quint Kessenich could choose it to be his own poll or RPI.

upprdeck
I didnt think Lax used straight RPI type stuff like hockey does though?

CU77

upprdeck
I didnt think Lax used straight RPI type stuff like hockey does though?

Officially, no. Unofficially, kinda yes. Committee chair one year said they just started with the RPI list and then made adjustments.

This is a consequence of the official criteria being basically impossible to grok:

Primary Criteria:
Strength-of-schedule index [average RPI of top-10 opponents]
Results of the RPI:
- Record against ranked teams 1-5; 6-10; 11-15; 16-20; 21+.
- Average RPI win (average RPI of all wins).
- Average RPI loss (average RPI of all losses).
Head-to-head competition:
- Results versus common opponents.
- Significant wins and losses (wins against teams ranked higher in the RPI and losses against teams ranked lower in the RPI).
- Locations of contests.
Additionally, input is provided by the regional advisory committee for consideration by the Division I Men’s Lacrosse Committee. Coaches’ polls and/or any other outside polls or rankings are not used by the committee for selection purposes.

[ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com]

chimpfood
I mean RPI is probably here to stay so I don’t know why we keep putting ourselves in this situation by scheduling multiple teams like Lehigh, Hobart, and Albany in the same year. I understand that some schools don’t want to do a home and home with us but it’s better to not hold a grudge about that and just play a good team away than it is to play these bad teams.

scoop85

chimpfood
I mean RPI is probably here to stay so I don’t know why we keep putting ourselves in this situation by scheduling multiple teams like Lehigh, Hobart, and Albany in the same year. I understand that some schools don’t want to do a home and home with us but it’s better to not hold a grudge about that and just play a good team away than it is to play these bad teams.

Lehigh and Albany both won their league championships last year and both have performed below expectations this year. Only Hobart was seen before this season as a truly weak team on the schedule.

Swampy

scoop85

chimpfood
I mean RPI is probably here to stay so I don’t know why we keep putting ourselves in this situation by scheduling multiple teams like Lehigh, Hobart, and Albany in the same year. I understand that some schools don’t want to do a home and home with us but it’s better to not hold a grudge about that and just play a good team away than it is to play these bad teams.

Lehigh and Albany both won their league championships last year and both have performed below expectations this year. Only Hobart was seen before this season as a truly weak team on the schedule.

And there's a long history of Cornell vs Hobart. Say what you want about it, but the Ivy League tag leans heavily on tradition for its panache.

mike1960

Swampy

scoop85

chimpfood
I mean RPI is probably here to stay so I don’t know why we keep putting ourselves in this situation by scheduling multiple teams like Lehigh, Hobart, and Albany in the same year. I understand that some schools don’t want to do a home and home with us but it’s better to not hold a grudge about that and just play a good team away than it is to play these bad teams.

Lehigh and Albany both won their league championships last year and both have performed below expectations this year. Only Hobart was seen before this season as a truly weak team on the schedule.

And there's a long history of Cornell vs Hobart. Say what you want about it, but the Ivy League tag leans heavily on tradition for its panache.

Nothing inherently wrong with that.

RichH

mike1960

Swampy

scoop85

chimpfood
I mean RPI is probably here to stay so I don’t know why we keep putting ourselves in this situation by scheduling multiple teams like Lehigh, Hobart, and Albany in the same year. I understand that some schools don’t want to do a home and home with us but it’s better to not hold a grudge about that and just play a good team away than it is to play these bad teams.

Lehigh and Albany both won their league championships last year and both have performed below expectations this year. Only Hobart was seen before this season as a truly weak team on the schedule.

And there's a long history of Cornell vs Hobart. Say what you want about it, but the Ivy League tag leans heavily on tradition for its panache.

Nothing inherently wrong with that.

Who'd be the best upgrade to the non-conference schedule that's close by? Army, I assume? Just guessing, but given the realities of squeezing 13 or 14 games into 10 weeks, those midweek nonconference games are most likely to be teams within a short-ish bus ride.

One of, if not the oldest rivalries in collegiate lacrosse. From the CU preview of this year's game, "Cornell and Hobart will face off for the 142nd time dating back to May 5, 1896 — no other rivalry has been played more than 126 times."

Wikipedia has a little background and recent history.

CU77

upprdeck
I didnt think Lax used straight RPI type stuff like hockey does though?

Officially, no. Unofficially, kinda yes. Committee chair one year said they just started with the RPI list and then made adjustments.

This is a consequence of the official criteria being basically impossible to grok:

Primary Criteria:
Strength-of-schedule index [average RPI of top-10 opponents]
Results of the RPI:
- Record against ranked teams 1-5; 6-10; 11-15; 16-20; 21+.
- Average RPI win (average RPI of all wins).
- Average RPI loss (average RPI of all losses).
Head-to-head competition:
- Results versus common opponents.
- Significant wins and losses (wins against teams ranked higher in the RPI and losses against teams ranked lower in the RPI).
- Locations of contests.
Additionally, input is provided by the regional advisory committee for consideration by the Division I Men’s Lacrosse Committee. Coaches’ polls and/or any other outside polls or rankings are not used by the committee for selection purposes.

[ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com]

Weder
Who'd be the best upgrade to the non-conference schedule that's close by? Army, I assume? Just guessing, but given the realities of squeezing 13 or 14 games into 10 weeks, those midweek nonconference games are most likely to be teams within a short-ish bus ride.

RichH
Honestly, it should always be Cornell-Syracuse. We played the last two years, but did they really drop us for Princeton as an annual thing?? Really?? Maybe they got annoyed because they couldn’t win outside the dome.

Scersk '97

RichH
Honestly, it should always be Cornell-Syracuse. We played the last two years, but did they really drop us for Princeton as an annual thing?? Really?? Maybe they got annoyed because they couldn’t win outside the dome.

Our annual fixtures should be Hobart and Syracuse, because and because. If Syracuse is not an annual thing anymore, then that's an indictment of Syracuse; thus, we shouldn't in turn "Syracuse" Hobart. (Not that you would suggest we should, but other posters…)

Army and Penn State are the other obvious choices for annual games, and I would be surprised if they would not feel like making those pacts.

Other than those, I'm fine with spreading outselves around a bit for our other three games. We should look into BU, since they seem to be making a real go of it. I'm fine with freezing out the South. Let the NCAAs be our out-of-conference meetings with them.

nshapiro
Syracuse is in the 'South' (ACC)

jjanow99
Here’s a question for you RPI gurus— on Saturday Yale plays Albany. In regards to Cornell’s RPI, does it matter who wins?

CU77
We want Yale to win.

First because Yale has had better opponents: their average opponent's record is currently 0.644 vs Albany's 0.508. This goes into the opponents' opponents' contribution to Cornell's RPI.

Second because Yale is currently #16, and we want them to stay in the top 20. Albany is #48 and has no chance as the top 20. The committee uses wins over top 20 as a selection criterion.

Third because (as BearLover said) we are likely to see them again in the ILT, and then their record and opponents' record will count twice as much as Albany's towards Cornell's RPI.

Similarly we want Princeton (#1) to beat Penn (#29).

Dartmouth (#23) vs Brown (#35) is more complicated. If Dartmouth has a shot at top 20 (not sure) then we want them to win, but if not, Brown has a better opponents' record.

[pro.lacrossereference.com]

• Suport NYS especially upstate teams
• Vary the competition and/ but back away from teams that aren't currently doing well (Binghamton for sure, Albany, Stony Brook (only played them 4X last 25 years))
• Play nearby teams so we could do a one-day trip, less than ~2 hours, to Syracuse, Hobart, Binghamton. Bucknell is 2:30, Penn State is 2:30, Albany is 3 hours, Lehigh is 3 hours, Army is 3:20. Except Army and Penn State, most have RPIs in the 50s.
• Hobart is an exception because we have played them so many years and, as an early-season game, we're not playing a Duke or Virginia.
• Always play Syracuse because they're top ten most years, and it's a one-hour drive. The gap year in 2023 was reported as Syracuse's desire to play an Ivy power other than Cornell. They beat Princeton by 3 and returned to the Cornell series in 2024. I believe the last Cornell-Cuse gap was late 1980s.

BearLover
For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

ugarte
it may also be a function of recruiting against our own recruiting success with underclassmen expected to hoover up minutes. it is much more likely just variance and it's too soon to tell much of anything.

ugarte
it may also be a function of recruiting against our own recruiting success with underclassmen expected to hoover up minutes. it is much more likely just variance and it's too soon to tell much of anything.

RichH

ugarte
it may also be a function of recruiting against our own recruiting success with underclassmen expected to hoover up minutes. it is much more likely just variance and it's too soon to tell much of anything.

I also feel like the "wahhh, we're not getting any 5***** A+++ rated recruits" Chicken Little panic has been happening with varying frequency for the past 15 years. Yet we still have continued to field some exceptional teams with regularity. Talented teams develop with good coaching and conditioning programs. We keep "finding" superstars like Seibald, Pannell, Teat, Adler, and Ceejus Kirst and surrounding them with incredibly deep support most years.

CU77
Really? You guys want to spend time worrying about future years when THIS YEAR'S team is unanimously viewed by cognoscenti as being the TOP TEAM IN THE COUNTRY with the best chance to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP since 2007?

CU77
Really? You guys want to spend time worrying about future years when THIS YEAR'S team is unanimously viewed by cognoscenti as being the TOP TEAM IN THE COUNTRY with the best chance to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP since 2007?

RichH

CU77
Really? You guys want to spend time worrying about future years when THIS YEAR'S team is unanimously viewed by cognoscenti as being the TOP TEAM IN THE COUNTRY with the best chance to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP since 2007?

You probably haven't seen the wreckage of the hockey board. Well, it's about to happen here, unfortunately.

CU77
All three of Cornell's starting attackmen are on the list of 25 Tewaaraton nominees:

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

RichH
the "wahhh, we're not getting any 5***** A+++ rated recruits" Chicken Little panic has been happening with varying frequency for the past 15 years. Yet we still have continued to field some exceptional teams with regularity.

BearLover
Since this was debated by others awhile back, I went on insidelacrosse.com to see how our recruiting is looking.

For 2025’s entering class, we are holding our own. Our recruiting is around that of the other Ivies. The ACC is dominating, however, with Duke, UVA, UNC, and Notre Dame way ahead of the Ivies.

For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

I would expect us to be doing better in recruiting given our recent success and all the #1 picks we’ve had the last few years (Teat, Adler, Kirst). What do you think explains why our recruiting has not caught up to our success? Lack of facilities (indoor practice facility might help)? Or is it as simple as lack of scholarships (despite generous financial aid)?

scoop85

BearLover
Since this was debated by others awhile back, I went on insidelacrosse.com to see how our recruiting is looking.

For 2025’s entering class, we are holding our own. Our recruiting is around that of the other Ivies. The ACC is dominating, however, with Duke, UVA, UNC, and Notre Dame way ahead of the Ivies.

For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

I would expect us to be doing better in recruiting given our recent success and all the #1 picks we’ve had the last few years (Teat, Adler, Kirst). What do you think explains why our recruiting has not caught up to our success? Lack of facilities (indoor practice facility might help)? Or is it as simple as lack of scholarships (despite generous financial aid)?

For the past 10-20 years our on field performance has exceeded our recruiting rankings. Parnell of course famously wasn’t even a top 100 recruit his senior year of HS, and only Seibald was truly a “blue chip” recruit on those great teams of his era. But Buczek and Stevens have elevated our on paper recruiting profile, even though many of our recruits only get a bump in ratings well after they have committed to Cornell. Ryan Goldstein, for example, was no stars when he committed, then was bumped to a 3 star, and in his PG year was elevated to a 4 star and ranked 50th overall in his class.

As for the current regulars, most were highly rated in IL’s final ratings for their respective classes:

5 stars — Kirst, Long, Staub, Firth, Nikolic (injured of course)
4 stars — Cascadden (was a 5 star but ended up just out of the 5 star group), Goldstein, Dalton, Graham, Waldman, Dooley, Singer, Rayhill, Wallace (as a goalie!), Melkonian, Schwartz, Box, Gilmartin, Kelleher
3 stars — Sheehan, Luzzi
No stars — Bozzi, Knust, Davis

Our backup goalie, sophomore Matt Tully, was a 5 star, and freshman goalie Tim Piacentini (who I believe is injured) was a high 4 star.

While we don’t know where the incoming class of 2026 will ultimately fall when the final rankings come out, even if the class turns out to be lower than our recent norm, I would expect it to be an outlier as long as our current coaching staff remains intact — unless the new financial landscape of college sports has a greater impact on lacrosse than seems to be the present case.

BearLover

scoop85

BearLover
Since this was debated by others awhile back, I went on insidelacrosse.com to see how our recruiting is looking.

For 2025’s entering class, we are holding our own. Our recruiting is around that of the other Ivies. The ACC is dominating, however, with Duke, UVA, UNC, and Notre Dame way ahead of the Ivies.

For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

I would expect us to be doing better in recruiting given our recent success and all the #1 picks we’ve had the last few years (Teat, Adler, Kirst). What do you think explains why our recruiting has not caught up to our success? Lack of facilities (indoor practice facility might help)? Or is it as simple as lack of scholarships (despite generous financial aid)?

For the past 10-20 years our on field performance has exceeded our recruiting rankings. Parnell of course famously wasn’t even a top 100 recruit his senior year of HS, and only Seibald was truly a “blue chip” recruit on those great teams of his era. But Buczek and Stevens have elevated our on paper recruiting profile, even though many of our recruits only get a bump in ratings well after they have committed to Cornell. Ryan Goldstein, for example, was no stars when he committed, then was bumped to a 3 star, and in his PG year was elevated to a 4 star and ranked 50th overall in his class.

As for the current regulars, most were highly rated in IL’s final ratings for their respective classes:

5 stars — Kirst, Long, Staub, Firth, Nikolic (injured of course)
4 stars — Cascadden (was a 5 star but ended up just out of the 5 star group), Goldstein, Dalton, Graham, Waldman, Dooley, Singer, Rayhill, Wallace (as a goalie!), Melkonian, Schwartz, Box, Gilmartin, Kelleher
3 stars — Sheehan, Luzzi
No stars — Bozzi, Knust, Davis

Our backup goalie, sophomore Matt Tully, was a 5 star, and freshman goalie Tim Piacentini (who I believe is injured) was a high 4 star.

While we don’t know where the incoming class of 2026 will ultimately fall when the final rankings come out, even if the class turns out to be lower than our recent norm, I would expect it to be an outlier as long as our current coaching staff remains intact — unless the new financial landscape of college sports has a greater impact on lacrosse than seems to be the present case.

Thanks. Very helpful information. FWIW, Kirst and Teat were 5* recruits and Adler was 4*. Similar to hockey, our performance has exceeded our on-paper recruiting. But, similar to hockey, we are in the midst of a long national title drought. So if recruiting can pick up that is one way to finally end the drought. Another way to end the drought is to finally go all the way with our great team this season…!

scoop85

BearLover

scoop85

BearLover
Since this was debated by others awhile back, I went on insidelacrosse.com to see how our recruiting is looking.

For 2025’s entering class, we are holding our own. Our recruiting is around that of the other Ivies. The ACC is dominating, however, with Duke, UVA, UNC, and Notre Dame way ahead of the Ivies.

For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

I would expect us to be doing better in recruiting given our recent success and all the #1 picks we’ve had the last few years (Teat, Adler, Kirst). What do you think explains why our recruiting has not caught up to our success? Lack of facilities (indoor practice facility might help)? Or is it as simple as lack of scholarships (despite generous financial aid)?

For the past 10-20 years our on field performance has exceeded our recruiting rankings. Parnell of course famously wasn’t even a top 100 recruit his senior year of HS, and only Seibald was truly a “blue chip” recruit on those great teams of his era. But Buczek and Stevens have elevated our on paper recruiting profile, even though many of our recruits only get a bump in ratings well after they have committed to Cornell. Ryan Goldstein, for example, was no stars when he committed, then was bumped to a 3 star, and in his PG year was elevated to a 4 star and ranked 50th overall in his class.

As for the current regulars, most were highly rated in IL’s final ratings for their respective classes:

5 stars — Kirst, Long, Staub, Firth, Nikolic (injured of course)
4 stars — Cascadden (was a 5 star but ended up just out of the 5 star group), Goldstein, Dalton, Graham, Waldman, Dooley, Singer, Rayhill, Wallace (as a goalie!), Melkonian, Schwartz, Box, Gilmartin, Kelleher
3 stars — Sheehan, Luzzi
No stars — Bozzi, Knust, Davis

Our backup goalie, sophomore Matt Tully, was a 5 star, and freshman goalie Tim Piacentini (who I believe is injured) was a high 4 star.

While we don’t know where the incoming class of 2026 will ultimately fall when the final rankings come out, even if the class turns out to be lower than our recent norm, I would expect it to be an outlier as long as our current coaching staff remains intact — unless the new financial landscape of college sports has a greater impact on lacrosse than seems to be the present case.

Thanks. Very helpful information. FWIW, Kirst and Teat were 5* recruits and Adler was 4*. Similar to hockey, our performance has exceeded our on-paper recruiting. But, similar to hockey, we are in the midst of a long national title drought. So if recruiting can pick up that is one way to finally end the drought. Another way to end the drought is to finally go all the way with our great team this season…!

This year’s team has all the elements needed for a championship run—-dynamic attack, excellent midfield (even with 2 key injuries), solid goaltending and an improved defense. A lot needs to go right to make it happen, but we have as good a chance as anyone.

Robb

scoop85

BearLover

scoop85

BearLover
Since this was debated by others awhile back, I went on insidelacrosse.com to see how our recruiting is looking.

For 2025’s entering class, we are holding our own. Our recruiting is around that of the other Ivies. The ACC is dominating, however, with Duke, UVA, UNC, and Notre Dame way ahead of the Ivies.

For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

I would expect us to be doing better in recruiting given our recent success and all the #1 picks we’ve had the last few years (Teat, Adler, Kirst). What do you think explains why our recruiting has not caught up to our success? Lack of facilities (indoor practice facility might help)? Or is it as simple as lack of scholarships (despite generous financial aid)?

For the past 10-20 years our on field performance has exceeded our recruiting rankings. Parnell of course famously wasn’t even a top 100 recruit his senior year of HS, and only Seibald was truly a “blue chip” recruit on those great teams of his era. But Buczek and Stevens have elevated our on paper recruiting profile, even though many of our recruits only get a bump in ratings well after they have committed to Cornell. Ryan Goldstein, for example, was no stars when he committed, then was bumped to a 3 star, and in his PG year was elevated to a 4 star and ranked 50th overall in his class.

As for the current regulars, most were highly rated in IL’s final ratings for their respective classes:

5 stars — Kirst, Long, Staub, Firth, Nikolic (injured of course)
4 stars — Cascadden (was a 5 star but ended up just out of the 5 star group), Goldstein, Dalton, Graham, Waldman, Dooley, Singer, Rayhill, Wallace (as a goalie!), Melkonian, Schwartz, Box, Gilmartin, Kelleher
3 stars — Sheehan, Luzzi
No stars — Bozzi, Knust, Davis

Our backup goalie, sophomore Matt Tully, was a 5 star, and freshman goalie Tim Piacentini (who I believe is injured) was a high 4 star.

While we don’t know where the incoming class of 2026 will ultimately fall when the final rankings come out, even if the class turns out to be lower than our recent norm, I would expect it to be an outlier as long as our current coaching staff remains intact — unless the new financial landscape of college sports has a greater impact on lacrosse than seems to be the present case.

Thanks. Very helpful information. FWIW, Kirst and Teat were 5* recruits and Adler was 4*. Similar to hockey, our performance has exceeded our on-paper recruiting. But, similar to hockey, we are in the midst of a long national title drought. So if recruiting can pick up that is one way to finally end the drought. Another way to end the drought is to finally go all the way with our great team this season…!

This year’s team has all the elements needed for a championship run—-dynamic attack, excellent midfield (even with 2 key injuries), solid goaltending and an improved defense. A lot needs to go right to make it happen, but we have as good a chance as anyone.

Solid on faceoffs, too, which was not the case for some of our more recent otherwise excellent teams.

KenP
Any injury updates? Any chance they will be back this season?

CU77
We want Yale to win.

First because Yale has had better opponents: their average opponent's record is currently 0.644 vs Albany's 0.508. This goes into the opponents' opponents' contribution to Cornell's RPI.

Second because Yale is currently #16, and we want them to stay in the top 20. Albany is #48 and has no chance as the top 20. The committee uses wins over top 20 as a selection criterion.

Third because (as BearLover said) we are likely to see them again in the ILT, and then their record and opponents' record will count twice as much as Albany's towards Cornell's RPI.

Similarly we want Princeton (#1) to beat Penn (#29).

Dartmouth (#23) vs Brown (#35) is more complicated. If Dartmouth has a shot at top 20 (not sure) then we want them to win, but if not, Brown has a better opponents' record.

Also: Cuse over UNC, Penn State over Rutgers.

[pro.lacrossereference.com]

BearLover
I’m jealous of everyone in Ithaca who gets to witness history next weekend

CU77
Yale loses to Albany in OT.

Cornell RPI ends the day at #3.

[pro.lacrossereference.com]

CU77
Yale loses to Albany in OT.

Cornell RPI ends the day at #3.

[pro.lacrossereference.com]

Quint Kessenich, Lax All-Stars, 4/21/25
5) Penn State
Penn State has had an incredibly successful 2024-25 athletics year, with the wrestling team and women’s volleyball both capturing NCAA titles. The men’s hockey team made the Frozen Four, and the football team was a playoff semifinalist after beating SMU and Boise State in the first two rounds. Success on campus is palpable.
4) Notre Dame
The Irish (7-3) [at North Carolina] turned a 4-0 deficit into a 12-6 win on Tobacco Road, alerting the nation that Notre Dame may be on an upward swing.
3) Princeton
The Tigers (10-2) were down three at halftime to Penn, but went on a 5-0 run to defeat the Quakers 12-8. Penn shot 1-for-14 in the second half and committed 11 turnovers.
2) Maryland
I was not overly impressed with ‘Be the Best’ (10-2) on Friday night as they disposed of Johns Hopkins 11-8 in front of a raucous crowd. The TV product, shot from the sixth floor roof, was unwatchable. The Terps weren’t bad—just not exceptional. They were solid.
1) Cornell
The Big Red (11-1) torched Harvard, scoring 20 goals in Cambridge and clinching the host spot in the Ivy League tournament. CJ Kirst tied Payton Cormier for the most career goals all-time at 224. Cornell used a 5-1 first quarter and a 5-1 run in the fourth to ice the Crimson. They were plus-15 in face-offs and shot 20-for-41. Willem Firth scored four times and Ryan Goldstein had six points. Jack Cascadden had 14 ground balls and went 23-for-29 at the face-off dot. Big Green at Big Red on Saturday—a tricky game for the color blind. [<-- that was a weird attempt at humor] The Cornell offense ranks #1 in scoring.

Kemp Report, Inside Lacrosse

AAA: Elite Tier (Final Four or Bust)
1. Cornell LGR

AA: Contenders Tier (realistic path to Final Four)
2. Maryland Terrapins
3. Princeton Tigers
4. Ohio State Buckeyes
5. Go Army, beat Navy
6. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
7. North Carolina Tar Heels
A: Dangerous Floaters (not a team you want in Quarters)
8. Penn State Nittany Lions
9. Duke Blue Devils
10. Syracuse Orange

Everyone else.

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

billhoward
Cornell as of 4/21 (and 11-1) remains #1 in both media and USILA/Coaches [usila.org] polls. Now 5 weeks at the top.

billhoward
Syracuse - Richmond - Harvard hover around 10-12 in the polls and that has an impact on whether at season's end we get credit for beating top 10 or top 15 teams.

billhoward
Cornell is also #1 in the [laxallstars.com] Quint Kessenich ratings:

Quint Kessenich, Lax All-Stars, 4/21/25
5) Penn State
Penn State has had an incredibly successful 2024-25 athletics year, with the wrestling team and women’s volleyball both capturing NCAA titles. The men’s hockey team made the Frozen Four, and the football team was a playoff semifinalist after beating SMU and Boise State in the first two rounds. Success on campus is palpable.
4) Notre Dame
The Irish (7-3) [at North Carolina] turned a 4-0 deficit into a 12-6 win on Tobacco Road, alerting the nation that Notre Dame may be on an upward swing.
3) Princeton
The Tigers (10-2) were down three at halftime to Penn, but went on a 5-0 run to defeat the Quakers 12-8. Penn shot 1-for-14 in the second half and committed 11 turnovers.
2) Maryland
I was not overly impressed with ‘Be the Best’ (10-2) on Friday night as they disposed of Johns Hopkins 11-8 in front of a raucous crowd. The TV product, shot from the sixth floor roof, was unwatchable. The Terps weren’t bad—just not exceptional. They were solid.
1) Cornell
The Big Red (11-1) torched Harvard, scoring 20 goals in Cambridge and clinching the host spot in the Ivy League tournament. CJ Kirst tied Payton Cormier for the most career goals all-time at 224. Cornell used a 5-1 first quarter and a 5-1 run in the fourth to ice the Crimson. They were plus-15 in face-offs and shot 20-for-41. Willem Firth scored four times and Ryan Goldstein had six points. Jack Cascadden had 14 ground balls and went 23-for-29 at the face-off dot. Big Green at Big Red on Saturday—a tricky game for the color blind. [<-- that was a weird attempt at humor] The Cornell offense ranks #1 in scoring.

Of note, and not to our advantage: [lacrossereference.com] has Cornell as the #15 team in strength of schedule. The top five as of April 20 are Syracuse, Penn, NC, Maryland, Hopkins. Princeton is 10, Yale 11, Brown 12, Richmond 16, Harvard 18, Lehigh 22, Hobart 38. Worse: Fourth-ranked Army is #37 on SOS.

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

Kemp Report, Inside Lacrosse

AAA: Elite Tier (Final Four or Bust)
1. Cornell LGR

AA: Contenders Tier (realistic path to Final Four)
2. Maryland Terrapins
3. Princeton Tigers
4. Ohio State Buckeyes
5. Go Army, beat Navy
6. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
7. North Carolina Tar Heels
A: Dangerous Floaters (not a team you want in Quarters)
8. Penn State Nittany Lions
9. Duke Blue Devils
10. Syracuse Orange

Everyone else.

CU77

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

Gotta love the man's prose style. He opens with "Hours from Ulaanbaatar, at the edge of the Mongolian steppe, where the horizon stretches unbroken and silence rides the wind, the Mongol Derby begins." Lacrosse is not mentioned until paragraph five.

He was also great fun to watch as a player, a two-way LSM at Brown on their one-foot-away-from-winning-it-all 2016 team.

CU77
Payton Cormier congratulates CJ on breaking his NCAA career scoring record:

[x.com]

Jeff Hopkins '82

CU77

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

Gotta love the man's prose style. He opens with "Hours from Ulaanbaatar, at the edge of the Mongolian steppe, where the horizon stretches unbroken and silence rides the wind, the Mongol Derby begins." Lacrosse is not mentioned until paragraph five.

He was also great fun to watch as a player, a two-way LSM at Brown on their one-foot-away-from-winning-it-all 2016 team.

I've been 1000 km from Ulaanbaatar in the Mongolian steppe. It's as impressive and isolated as he describes it.

Fortunately I was in an SUV not on a horse.

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

CU77

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

Gotta love the man's prose style. He opens with "Hours from Ulaanbaatar, at the edge of the Mongolian steppe, where the horizon stretches unbroken and silence rides the wind, the Mongol Derby begins." Lacrosse is not mentioned until paragraph five.

He was also great fun to watch as a player, a two-way LSM at Brown on their one-foot-away-from-winning-it-all 2016 team.

I've been 1000 km from Ulaanbaatar in the Mongolian steppe. It's as impressive and isolated as he describes it.

Fortunately I was in an SUV not on a horse.

But did you sleep in a yurt?

All Bonni wants from life is to sleep in a yurt.

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

CU77

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

Gotta love the man's prose style. He opens with "Hours from Ulaanbaatar, at the edge of the Mongolian steppe, where the horizon stretches unbroken and silence rides the wind, the Mongol Derby begins." Lacrosse is not mentioned until paragraph five.

He was also great fun to watch as a player, a two-way LSM at Brown on their one-foot-away-from-winning-it-all 2016 team.

I've been 1000 km from Ulaanbaatar in the Mongolian steppe. It's as impressive and isolated as he describes it.

Fortunately I was in an SUV not on a horse.

But did you sleep in a yurt?

All Bonni wants from life is to sleep in a yurt.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

CU77

billhoward
Larken Kemp in [www.insidelacrosse.com] has the teams in these brackets going into the weekend of April 28:

Gotta love the man's prose style. He opens with "Hours from Ulaanbaatar, at the edge of the Mongolian steppe, where the horizon stretches unbroken and silence rides the wind, the Mongol Derby begins." Lacrosse is not mentioned until paragraph five.

He was also great fun to watch as a player, a two-way LSM at Brown on their one-foot-away-from-winning-it-all 2016 team.

I've been 1000 km from Ulaanbaatar in the Mongolian steppe. It's as impressive and isolated as he describes it.

Fortunately I was in an SUV not on a horse.

But did you sleep in a yurt?

All Bonni wants from life is to sleep in a yurt.

"Yurt" is actually a Russian word. The Mongolian word is "ger".

1. Cornell (all 24 first place vores)
2. Princeton
3. Maryland
4. Army
5. Ohio State

1. Cornell (26 firsts)
2. Princeton
3. Maryland (1 first)
4. Army
5. TOSU

1. Maryland
2. Princeton
3. Cornell
4. Penn State
5. North Carolina
6. ND
7. Duke
8. TOSYU
9. Richmond
10. Harvard
11. Syracuse
12. Army
13. BU
14. Michigan
15. Virginia

Quint Kessenich 4/218/25
Here’s the final Top 20 of 2025. Don’t get my poll confused with bracketology. They are different exercises. It’s my opinion. Feels like the Big Ten can’t score, and the Ivy League is light on defense. ACC teams lack consistency. Who can play both offense and defense at a high level? Who can play complimentary [complementary?—ed]lacrosse? We find out in May.

This is a huge week. Ten AQs are earned across the D1 landscape. Champ Week is an extension of the 18-team NCAA bracket. Seventy-four D1 teams get paired [sic] down to 18 by May 4. Let’s celebrate these moments and put these programs on a pedestal. The NCAA tournament selection show is on Sunday, May 4 (ESPN+) at 9:30 p.m.
1. Cornell. "The Big Red (12-1) got a record-setting day from CJ Kirst and strong outings from their specialists — goalie Wyatt Knust and FOGO Jack Cascadden — in a bland home win over Dartmouth. The Big Red host Yale on Friday in the Ivy semis (ESPN+). I’m not sure how Yale will defend CJ Kirst and company."
2. Maryland.
3. Princeton.
4. Notre Dame. "The Irish (7-3) repeated scoreless streaks have to be a concern. They had a drought of 29:00 minutes against UNC, only scored one goal over 32:00 on April 12 versus Virginia, and went without a goal for 40:00 in the Dome. It happened again on Saturday against Penn, trailing 6-1 through the first 28:00 minutes before unleashing a quarter of excellence on their way to a closer-than-expected home win on Senior Day. 10-8 final highlighted by Devon McClane and Chris Kavanagh. But these types of dry spells forecast doom.
5. Penn State. "The Nittany Lions (10-3) held off a late run by Johns Hopkins, advancing 13-12 to the league semis and likely locking up a home game in the NCAA tournament. Their RPI is currently #4. Kyle Lehman scored four times, while Luke Walstrum had four assists. JHU took seven of eight faceoffs in the fourth quarter while closing ground late. Meanwhile, Hopkins started (6-2) and then lost all six Big Ten games. Dreadful. The last time JHU did not play a lacrosse game in May was 2020 with the Covid shutdown, and prior to that in 1945 during WWII."

Terry Foy, Inside Lacrosse
2. Cornell (11-1) [Cornell projected as 2-seed behind Maryland]
[factors in ranking teams for seedng] RPI: 3
SOS: 13
Top 5 Wins: Princeton
Top 6-10 Wins: Syracuse, Harvard
Top 11-20 Wins: Richmond, Yale
Non Top-20 Losses: None

Terry Foy
For more than a decade, I’ve referred to the NCAA Men’s Lacrosse Selection Criteria as “subjectively objective.” I refer to it that way because the process utilizes objective criteria but without a stated method of ordering that criteria, which allows each individual year’s Committee to interpret the criteria differently. As a result, the exercise of projecting the eventual Tournament bracket lacks what it needs most: any indication of how this year’s Committee will deviate from prior Committees in interpreting the criteria.

In the late 2010s, in an effort to help form fan expectations heading into Selection Sunday, the Committee released two Top 10 Rankings during ESPN game broadcasts. Ideally, this could be the skeleton key mentioned above. What can be gleaned from the Committee’s Top 10 that could make projecting the bracket better?

On May 5, 2022, for the Fourth Bracketology update of that year, I quoted IL’s Patrick McEwen — who had used early AI tools to compare the NCAA Selection Criteria data inputs to the NCAA Tournament fields that the Committees eventually created over the preceding decade or more, then made them forward-looking to predict the bracket based on current-year data. He said: “I studied it extensively the first two years and found the Committee’s Top 10 data did not improve my machine-learning projections and, in fact, made them slightly worse.”
....
Ranking Cornell ahead of Princeton and Maryland suggests the Committee is downgrading the value of strength of schedule and volume of Top 5 Wins; the Tigers and Terps ranked Nos. 1 and 2 in SOS, and both had two Top 5 Wins to Cornell’s one. And by ranking the Big Red ahead of Penn State, who also had a superior RPI and SOS, one can infer the Committee is deemphasizing head-to-head wins, as the Nittany Lions beat Cornell on March 8.

As a result, it would seem the Committee is valuing record, specifically few losses, most highly as the Big Red’s one loss is the lone aspect of their résumé that is superior to Princeton’s and Maryland’s.

But if that were the case, it would suggest bumping up Army, the only other one-loss team in Division I. Instead, the Committee ranked the Black Knights two spots below their RPI ranking, behind a team they beat (North Carolina) and two spots lower than I did.

At that brings us to the rub: how to utilize the Committee’s Top 10 in order to improve this Bracketology exercise. When it lacks its own decipherable internal logic, it makes it very hard to deviate from what had been my standard method of doing this projection that I’ve adopted over the years.

BearLover
Since this was debated by others awhile back, I went on insidelacrosse.com to see how our recruiting is looking.

For 2025’s entering class, we are holding our own. Our recruiting is around that of the other Ivies. The ACC is dominating, however, with Duke, UVA, UNC, and Notre Dame way ahead of the Ivies.

For 2026’s entering class, which was the point of concern when this topic previously came up, we appear to be sorely lacking. Harvard is doing very well with this class, including two 5* recruits. I know it was mentioned previously that perhaps these rankings will be further updated and that could change things.

I would expect us to be doing better in recruiting given our recent success and all the #1 picks we’ve had the last few years (Teat, Adler, Kirst). What do you think explains why our recruiting has not caught up to our success? Lack of facilities (indoor practice facility might help)? Or is it as simple as lack of scholarships (despite generous financial aid)?

chimpfood
Kirst Ivy attack man of the year, kelleher Ivy midfielder of the year (surprising to me) and singer ivy defenseman of the year (surprised he won but very deserved)

big29red
As for Kelleher, it's not just the scoring, but the attention he attracts as soon as he steps on the field. Everyone else gets open space, and the team flourishes!

big29red
I've ben harping on this in the other fanlax forum, but have been told repeatedly, to not be concerned- we have enough talent. I'm not so sure about that, even Dartmouth has out recruited us in the '26 class!

ugarte
i don't love a one year dip but i'm also not going to overthink a one year dip as we are about to start the postseason with the top-ranked team in the country.

should i be less surprised that knust wasn't even second-team?

ugarte
i don't love a one year dip but i'm also not going to overthink a one year dip as we are about to start the postseason with the top-ranked team in the country.

should i be less surprised that knust wasn't even second-team?

djk26
I'm in agreeance with this. (I like that word "agreeance"--it's archaic and hardly ever used--I first heard it on a TV show about 20 years ago when I think the person using it meant to say "agreement."

George64

djk26
I'm in agreeance with this. (I like that word "agreeance"--it's archaic and hardly ever used--I first heard it on a TV show about 20 years ago when I think the person using it meant to say "agreement."

Agreement or agreeance? Did you throw away your Strunk and White, The Elements of Style, that you bought for freshman English? It advocated using the active voice, as it is usually more direct and vigorous than the passive.

djk26

George64

djk26
I'm in agreeance with this. (I like that word "agreeance"--it's archaic and hardly ever used--I first heard it on a TV show about 20 years ago when I think the person using it meant to say "agreement."

Agreement or agreeance? Did you throw away your Strunk and White, The Elements of Style, that you bought for freshman English? It advocated using the active voice, as it is usually more direct and vigorous than the passive.

I was joking about "agreeance"--the word is silly.

George64

djk26

George64

djk26
I'm in agreeance with this. (I like that word "agreeance"--it's archaic and hardly ever used--I first heard it on a TV show about 20 years ago when I think the person using it meant to say "agreement."

Agreement or agreeance? Did you throw away your Strunk and White, The Elements of Style, that you bought for freshman English? It advocated using the active voice, as it is usually more direct and vigorous than the passive.

I was joking about "agreeance"--the word is silly.

I’m in agreement! I totally agree!
.

ugarte
should i be less surprised that knust wasn't even second-team?

CU77

ugarte
should i be less surprised that knust wasn't even second-team?

You shouldn't be surprised at all.

NCAA saves percentage statistics:

3. Ryan Croddick, Princeton, 60.4%
7. Mason Morel, Dartmouth, 58.3%
19. Connor Foley, Brown, 55.4%
22. Wyatt Knust, Cornell, 54.6%
33. Emmet Carroll, Penn, 52.8%

[www.ncaa.com]

Foley is the player with a legit complaint ...

JasonN95
I assume that lacrosse All Ivy is based on performance in Ivy games (how it's done for hockey), so maybe Carroll's sv% in Ivy games was higher than Foley's.

CU77

ugarte
should i be less surprised that knust wasn't even second-team?

You shouldn't be surprised at all.

NCAA saves percentage statistics:

3. Ryan Croddick, Princeton, 60.4%
7. Mason Morel, Dartmouth, 58.3%
19. Connor Foley, Brown, 55.4%
22. Wyatt Knust, Cornell, 54.6%
33. Emmet Carroll, Penn, 52.8%

[www.ncaa.com]

Foley is the player with a legit complaint ...

upprdeck
Maryland loses so Cornell probably playing for the 1 seed now

margolism

upprdeck
Maryland loses so Cornell probably playing for the 1 seed now

I can't see how we don't get it after today's win.

JasonN95
Cool split screen video of Kirst’s draft pick announcement:

[x.com]

JasonN95
Cool split screen video of Kirst’s draft pick announcement:

[x.com]

How family forged CJ Kirst's journey to greatness

mike1960
I would not be surprised to see Richmond deliver an upset today. Colgate is playing well at the right time. I think they'll win too.

mike1960
I would not be surprised to see Richmond deliver an upset today. Colgate is playing well at the right time. I think they'll win too.