Men's Lax Syracuse at Cornell 4/2/2024

New Thread: Keeping the streak alive for lousy weather at the Cornell home games.

Make or break game for Cornell. It feels as if we're on the cusp of not making the NCAA tournament if we don't win the Ivy League tournament. And that will be harder with the loss to Penn and the possibility we don't host the tournament. We need Yale and Princeton to step up and knock Penn around.

Meanwhile, let's go, Red. And Penn has a tough final three games: at Yale, vs. Harvard, at Princeton. We may need Penn to lose two.

Well that’s a horrific start.

Don’t think they’re coming back from this.

chimpfood
Well that’s a horrific start.

This got ugly fast. 7-0. 4:40 left 1st.

Syracuse offensive coordinator just got kicked out of game. Cornell, trailing 7-2 after one period, will have two-man up for nearly a minute and then one-man up for another two minutes.

Just got in from work. Did I miss anything?

Wow, we are terrible on defense. I've never seen a Cornell lacrosse defense this inept.

Difficult to believe how bad the defense is. I think the individual close D players are talented enough, I believe in Tully in the long term, and for as much as we lack depth at SSDM, they are only 2 players of the 7 players on that end. There needs to be some sort of overhaul, whether schematically or something else, because what they're currently doing is not going to lead to winning lacrosse.

This 29 to 28 W is going to go down in history...

That 10th goal for Cornell was huge. We're still in this if we can step it up on D.

Losing 2/3 faceoffs doesn't help.

Cornell got off a terrible start, gave up the first 7? more? goals ... can't win faceoffs ... the defense is challenged in this game at least ... and it feels unclear how we made it into the top ten earlier in the season. And yet we're down only 14-10 at the half. Already Syracuse has given up more goals than its per-game season average.

This matters less than whether Cornell wins but ... Ms. Moore ... you're listening? watching from the webcast?

Today's video production, which now has the imprint of ESPN, is sub-optimal. The camera crew loses the player with the ball for seconds on end ... panning doesn't keep up with fast breaks (pro tip: there's a drag knob, let's you lower the resistance needed when panning, should be used) ... the cameras in the press box should be under cover so why do they seem misty in the rain, and the Schoellkopf House deck camera, it's like an impressionist painting we're seeing.

Our announcers may be following the team's lead and having an off day. It's worse when they talk about a great goal and ... the video doesn't have the goal. The worst: There's confusion about is this a penalty or not, is it non-releasable, which team the penalty is on, will the refs skip the faceoff depending on which penalty is called. Two solutions are possible: STFU and announce less if you dont' know and ... there needs to be better communication to the scorer table on the Crescent side getting through to the press box ... and the press box getting through to the announcers and other press.

Our son is in the video business, he's good at what he does (BU grad), and he can verify there is a surplus of camera guys, gaffers, grips. riggers, etcetera, who know what they're doing. I would add as a (still) photographer who got into Cornell based on a bunch of awards, you get better with practice, practice, practice.

Cornell, please make it better.

[edit add:] Yes, I know we've got a top-notch announcer on the injury list. Get well. But still ...

That possession looked MUCH better. They spread things out and created space for the shooter.

That possession is what I'd like to see more of from this team. At the Penn game, Penn packed in their defense, and the way to bust that is to bomb from outside. Love seeing Long shoot from long range

I miss Barry.

mike1960
I miss Barry.

+1. Someone on Lax Forum mentioned that he may be having some health issues, as he didn't call any Basketball games either. Get well Barry!

Beautiful move by Goldstein!

I can smell the Syracuse fans meatsweats from here.

Cornell within 1, scored after killing off an EMO (because Syracuse threw the ball away).~5 minutes left.

We've had a couple of excellent chances to tie it up. We're forcing it inside.

Wow. What great lacrosse.

mike1960
Wow. What great lacrosse.

HOLY COW!

i. can't. believe. it.

Holy fuckin' shit. Tied with 19.8. FOGO wins at the X and scores with 10 seconds left to take the lead.

if you lose the faceoff and have to hit someone in the throat, you hit them in the throat.

Syracuse scores with 1.1. JUST TAKE A FUCKING PENALTY!

How do we not pick that guy up???

We let him walk right to the goal and toss it in.

Is there just not a culture of intentional fouls in lacrosse? How do you not just tackle someone and make them restart with 3 seconds left? Who cares if they have an EMO for 4 seconds!

what in the ever loving fark

Ryan Ryan Ryan.

Knust save, Cornell turnover, Cuse turnover, Cornell ball... Goldstein misses from in close but Cornell getting an EMO with 60 left... Cornell misses but backs up... Cornell misses AND doesn't back up. Terrible shot from distance. Knust save as time expires. 2OT.

ugarte
Knust save, Cornell turnover, Cuse turnover, Cornell ball... Goldstein misses from in close but Cornell getting an EMO with 60 left... Cornell misses but backs up... Cornell misses AND doesn't back up. Terrible shot from distance. Knust save as time expires. 2OT.

We looked so much better when we spread the offense out a little and forced longer slides from Syracuse.

This game is insane, I don't even know what the takeaways are--win or lose.

Knust save to start 2OT... tough but good clear ... kind of a bad shot and Cuse beats us to the sideline... KNUST! point blank save... Cornell clear... HEY TIMEKEEPER ... KIRST!

I'm too old for this.

Happy to win but mostly shaking my head--WOW.

incredible shot from Kirst for the W

Knust is a hero.

CJ is a hero.

ugarte
Knust save to start 2OT... tough but good clear ... kind of a bad shot and Cuse beats us to the sideline... KNUST! point blank save... Cornell clear... HEY TIMEKEEPER ... KIRST!

Amazin’!

Not allowed to lose two 2OT games in a row. Phew

Great defense second half. We are capable of playing defense. We need to do it all four quarters.

That is the best fucking game I have ever seen and will ever see

I can't believe that tonight these two teams topped the game below in terms of insanity/ridiculousness.

Cornell 16-Syracuse 15 in OT in 2022, Cornell comeback from six goals down

semsox
Not allowed to lose two 2OT games in a row. Phew

Thank you! During the second OT, I ALMOST posted, "We can't lose two double overtime games in a row, can we?" then realized how ridiculously bad the karma of such a post would be before the end of the game.

Of course the real when the rubber meets the road moment is when we play Syracuse in the postseason.

chimpfood
That is the best fucking game I have ever seen and will ever see

I said the same thing to my wife, who went to Syracuse (ha ha loser)

To quote the guy from Jeopardy: Cornell better "Bring It" against Brown. No Letdown. To be honest: Thought I was seeing a replay of the Penn State game at first. Love the effort Gilmartin shows at ssd middle. Great game and overcame a great effort from the SU Goalie Mark.

mike1960
I'm too old for this.

Dude, you are never too old for this. This is better for anti-aging than injecting monkey hormones. Or lurking in the ladies' dressing room at Bergdorf.

I saw Cornell lose about 3 times in my mind in the overtime before we nailed the victory that resurrects this season. LGR!!!

I take back about 33% of what I said about the broadcast / broadcaster quality earlier in the thread.

Why couldnt we have performed this magic in 2009 at Foxboro against 'Cuse?

ugarte
Of course the real when the rubber meets the road moment is when we play Syracuse in the postseason.

Or in the Groundhog Day replay of Cornell-Syracuse 4/2/24. Syracuse got 17 goals in this parallel game but ... phew ... it was the women's lax match earlier. I know I was drinking too much in the run as the men went down 7-0. Seeing this made me doubt what I saw. I mean, we know from 2009 Syracuse needs 3 seconds to score from midfield.

mike1960
How do we not pick that guy up???

We let him walk right to the goal and toss it in.

Wasn't this a 2009 Lesson Learned?

Is this the game where we slipped past the odds or ...

does this set us up for the rest of the season? Give us the confidence to clobber the rest of the Ivy competition even if we don't host the ILT?

Mr. Niss

chimpfood
That is the best fucking game I have ever seen and will ever see

I said the same thing to my wife, who went to Syracuse (ha ha loser)

Is there a spare bedroom you're sleeping in? Or is the backseat comfy with about three pillows and a blanket?

billhoward

mike1960
I'm too old for this.

Dude, you are never too old for this. This is better for anti-aging than injecting monkey hormones. Or lurking in the ladies' dressing room at Bergdorf.

I saw Cornell lose about 3 times in my mind in the overtime before we nailed the victory that resurrects this season. LGR!!!

I take back about 33% of what I said about the broadcast / broadcaster quality earlier in the thread.

Why couldnt we have performed this magic in 2009 at Foxboro against 'Cuse?

When the Syracuse goalie made that incredible kick-save with his right foot against CJ (1:30 left in regulation), I thought we were done for. But our guys rose to the occasion big time.

I hope Barry gets better soon and returns. The camera person needs to stop with the close ups! I can't see the field!

mike1960
I hope Barry gets better soon and returns. The camera person needs to stop with the close ups! I can't see the field!

Well then you're not doing worse than our video crew. Look, I appreciate it's being broadcast and the signal stability is worlds better than 2008. But JFC, Track. The. Ball.

billhoward
Is this the game where we slipped past the odds or ...

does this set us up for the rest of the season? Give us the confidence to clobber the rest of the Ivy competition even if we don't host the ILT?

We go as far as the defense carries us. That was evident from game one. If they play like they did today in the second half, we can do some damage this year.

ugarte
Is there just not a culture of intentional fouls in lacrosse? How do you not just tackle someone and make them restart with 3 seconds left? Who cares if they have an EMO for 4 seconds!

I've thought this forever. Just tackle him.

mike1960
The camera person needs to stop with the close ups! I can't see the field!

Yes, save them for the highlight reel.

Ugh please don’t turn this into basketball. The number one reason I don’t watch it.

mike1960
I hope Barry gets better soon and returns. The camera person needs to stop with the close ups! I can't see the field!

OTOH: The video guy needs to zoom in some of the time, too. If I'm a coach charting how the sets worked and I need to see the entire half of the field, cool. But when it's zoomed so far out and you can't see the ball, and you know if it was a goal or not you only when you see all the players on one side or the other celebrate. I'm on a 65" TV with an HD signal. I know I should go to 85" and 4K (the in-wall surrounds have 80" between them which fits 86-90 diagonal) in anticipation this will be supported by Cornell sports video.

Maybe switch between the cameras: press box wide, press box close, end zone, maybe a sideline camera. If need be, hire the RPI guys. They know their stuff.

Normally we argue this stuff to take our minds off a heartbreaker loss. [edit correction:] Syracuse's heartbreaker.

It's almost midnight, the game has been over going on 2 1/2 hours, and there's no sign of a Cornell lacrosse story on cornellbigred-com. Syracuse U site has its story up. Ditto the Syracuse newspaper's site. Cornell has its story up about the Orange lax women taking down Cornell 17-4. Bupkis about Cornell men's lax and one of the year's best games in D1.

I don't believe anybody at Cornell sports PR is lazy. But somehow, there's no story up and posted in an era when timeliness matters even more. It may be Cornell sports PR is understaffed. I started doing sports journalism at 16 at the Gannett Rochester papers and I can say with confidence: Smart people make better sportwriters (viz Jason Gay, WSJ) but there are plenty of passably capable people, they work cheap (alas), and they do decent work. Typing fast (and more or less accurate) can be learned. Ditto for photographers. I shot a couple games for another ECAC hockey school this winter (my son is a trainer there) and I transmitted photos during and after each period; it's a breeze compared to going back to the Daily Sun darkroom and developing Kodak film.

Please, Madame Athletic Director: You have a lot of important tasks starting with resolving the disparity between men's and women's sports success at Cornell (we're worst in the Ivies) ... better facilities ... getting more students to attends sports events ... letting still-eligible now-grad students play a final year without transferring to BC. But at some point, you need to think about how remote alumni consume Cornell sports: via ESPN+ and the Cornell site (plus the Daily Sun sports site). It's also a powerful recruiting tool for HS athletes.

Below, Cornell and SU sites a bit after 11:30.

Update: The Cornell MLax story posted at 11:50 pm. About 2:15 after the game (2:34 to play) ended.

ER
Ugh please don’t turn this into basketball. The number one reason I don’t watch it.

if there are 10 seconds left in a game, there's time to score a goal. if there are 4 seconds left on a restart, maybe not so much? we're not talking about 30 minutes of real time to play 2 minutes of action. There's no reason to allow a remotely decent shot in that little amount of time when the consequences of a foul are basically nil.

The last-minute-of-basketball problem is the timeouts and the commercials. Not the play itself.

Knust heroics:

Give Wyatt Knust his flowers!! 🌺

He had two MASSIVE saves to keep @CornellLacrosse alive and help them to win! 🧱 pic.twitter.com/Cl75TizAnB

— Inside Lacrosse (@Inside_Lacrosse) April 3, 2024

Kirst Game winner:

BIG RED! BIG WIN ‼️‼️

Cornell rallies to take down No. 4 Syracuse, 18-17, in double OT!!!#NCAAMLAX x 🎥 ACCN / @CornellLacrosse
pic.twitter.com/wUi7dZHPdI

— NCAA Lacrosse (@NCAALAX) April 3, 2024

billhoward

mike1960
How do we not pick that guy up???

We let him walk right to the goal and toss it in.

Wasn't this a 2009 Lesson Learned?

The biggest 2009 Lesson Learned is “when you have possession with 9 seconds left, heave the ball 3 miles into the air.”

This edition of Cornell Lacrosse is an enigma. At this point, anything is possible.

A big issue you can see in this era of lax with the video is on the replay.. Cornell basically has the wide camera and some low stuff.. But like hockey, you need something that is zoomed in to deal with goal replays. They dont need to be manned but they need to be there.

I would say there has been easily 10 goal plays with no idea if it went in or not because the only replay is from the bad angle center camera.

Give Connor Buczek credit for making the goalie change to Wyatt Knust (.750 save pct) at halftime not, say, when it was a 7-0 deficit in the first. Less sense of panic, less damage to first goaltender Matthew Tully (.300).

billhoward

mike1960
I hope Barry gets better soon and returns. The camera person needs to stop with the close ups! I can't see the field!

OTOH: The video guy needs to zoom in some of the time, too. If I'm a coach charting how the sets worked and I need to see the entire half of the field, cool. But when it's zoomed so far out and you can't see the ball, and you know if it was a goal or not you only when you see all the players on one side or the other celebrate. I'm on a 65" TV with an HD signal. I know I should go to 85" and 4K (the in-wall surrounds have 80" between them which fits 86-90 diagonal) in anticipation this will be supported by Cornell sports video.

Maybe switch between the cameras: press box wide, press box close, end zone, maybe a sideline camera. If need be, hire the RPI guys. They know their stuff.

Normally we argue this stuff to take our minds off a heartbreaker loss. [edit correction:] Syracuse's heartbreaker.

I watch on my computer, and I can see the ball fine when the camera is set to about the half field. I'm not charting any plays. I just like to see who is on who, how the offense is setting up and moving, and how the defense is sinking in and sliding. When the camera person is trying to give up the close ups on a player and, one presumes, "the feel of the game," it's just annoying.

Check out the Daily Orange article-much better than the Sun's (Yes-Cornell on break, Newhouse school, etc.) but the Sun's sports coverage with the exception has been on the spare side this academic year. Not enough staff??

Meant with the exception of ice hockey

rss77
Check out the Daily Orange article-much better than the Sun's (Yes-Cornell on break, Newhouse school, etc.) but the Sun's sports coverage with the exception has been on the spare side this academic year. Not enough staff??

You can quibble with how long it took to put out but i thought the Sun gamer was very good (unless what I'm referring to is the Athletic Department recap).

Kudos to the Daily Orange, which actually had three stories about the game filed on deadline. This one has a lot of quotes from Long, Another story notes that two years ago, the last time the teams played, Knust also came off the bench to help Cornell pull out a come-from-behind win in OT. The third story is a notebook on the game, noting, among other things, that Cornell is 69th nationally in defensive efficiency, not a surprise to those of us who have been watching the games. Where is Adler when we need him?
The Syracuse offensive coordinator was reportedly ejected for making contact with an official.

dbilmes
Kudos to the Daily Orange, which actually had three stories about the game filed on deadline. This one has a lot of quotes from Long, Another story notes that two years ago, the last time the teams played, Knust also came off the bench to help Cornell pull out a come-from-behind win in OT. The third story is a notebook on the game, noting, among other things, that Cornell is 69th nationally in defensive efficiency, not a surprise to those of us who have been watching the games. Where is Adler when we need him?
The Syracuse offensive coordinator was reportedly ejected for making contact with an official.

Got the score of the game wrong, though, in the Long article. Also, said the subject of the article, Long, was (5,5), not the correct (5,4). Accuracy matters.

the comment about defensive efficiency is brutal Let's see how it goes as the schedule eases up a little with Brown

Al DeFlorio

dbilmes
Kudos to the Daily Orange, which actually had three stories about the game filed on deadline. This one has a lot of quotes from Long, Another story notes that two years ago, the last time the teams played, Knust also came off the bench to help Cornell pull out a come-from-behind win in OT. The third story is a notebook on the game, noting, among other things, that Cornell is 69th nationally in defensive efficiency, not a surprise to those of us who have been watching the games. Where is Adler when we need him?
The Syracuse offensive coordinator was reportedly ejected for making contact with an official.

Got the score of the game wrong, though, in the Long article. Also, said the subject of the article, Long, was (5,5), not the correct (5,4). Accuracy matters.

As a long-time sports journalist, I agree that accuracy matters. But at least they are filing well-written stories on deadline. And after all, they are student-journalists.

its hard to be accurate though.. Where do you get the numbers from? often you have several box scores of sports and they are different.

upprdeck
its hard to be accurate though.. Where do you get the numbers from? often you have several box scores of sports and they are different.

This is hard to swallow, sorry to say. If you are going to write about a game, you should watch it. It isn't hard, then, to get the final score correct. Yes, the writing was OK, and having the multiple articles was a nice feature.

It was a game neither team deserved to lose (and, arguably, neither team deserved to win with long stretches of bafflingly bad play on each side.) But I am reminded of what I have felt since at least, oh, 2009. Lacrosse overtimes should not end in sudden death. I don't know how long this rule has been in place, I know it wasn't there when Cornell played Maryland for the national championship in the 70s.

But lacrosse can and should be a high scoring game. This is not hockey or soccer where it could take 30 minutes plus between goals. Maybe a four minute overtime is too short if it's not sudden death. Both teams had their chances in OT last night, but I just think OT woud be even more exciting if you knew you had to play a full four or a full five minutes or whatever and it woudn't end with the first goal.

djk26
It was a game neither team deserved to lose (and, arguably, neither team deserved to win with long stretches of bafflingly bad play on each side.) But I am reminded of what I have felt since at least, oh, 2009. Lacrosse overtimes should not end in sudden death. I don't know how long this rule has been in place, I know it wasn't there when Cornell played Maryland for the national championship in the 70s.

But lacrosse can and should be a high scoring game. This is not hockey or soccer where it could take 30 minutes plus between goals. Maybe a four minute overtime is too short if it's not sudden death. Both teams had their chances in OT last night, but I just think OT woud be even more exciting if you knew you had to play a full four or a full five minutes or whatever and it woudn't end with the first goal.

I recall when I was a student that women's lax overtime was two four minute periods with no sudden victory. It's how cornell lost the 2002 national semifinal.

a full 5 min and then a sudden death would be fine. both teams would pretty much get the ball 2-3 times, a chance for FO to happen a time or and a chance to Ds to play as well as the Os.

upprdeck
a full 5 min and then a sudden death would be fine. both teams would pretty much get the ball 2-3 times, a chance for FO to happen a time or and a chance to Ds to play as well as the Os.

hey, that's yesterday!

ugarte

ER
Ugh please don’t turn this into basketball. The number one reason I don’t watch it.

if there are 10 seconds left in a game, there's time to score a goal. if there are 4 seconds left on a restart, maybe not so much? we're not talking about 30 minutes of real time to play 2 minutes of action. There's no reason to allow a remotely decent shot in that little amount of time when the consequences of a foul are basically nil.

Well, there's still a small chance that no matter how hard the foul is, the opponent will score and tie the game. Then the severity of the foul might get a good player kicked out of the game before it goes into overtime. Or, almost as bad, given a 3-minute unreleasable.

Swampy

ugarte

ER
Ugh please don’t turn this into basketball. The number one reason I don’t watch it.

if there are 10 seconds left in a game, there's time to score a goal. if there are 4 seconds left on a restart, maybe not so much? we're not talking about 30 minutes of real time to play 2 minutes of action. There's no reason to allow a remotely decent shot in that little amount of time when the consequences of a foul are basically nil.

Well, there's still a small chance that no matter how hard the foul is, the opponent will score and tie the game. Then the severity of the foul might get a good player kicked out of the game before it goes into overtime. Or, almost as bad, given a 3-minute unreleasable.

Interesting, but my response is "if you could sneak a gun on to the field, you should use it."

I will say, it's been a full day, but I'm still on a winning high right now.

Four-minute overtimes, whoever gets more goals wins, if not, four more minutes. Seldom does a game go more than two OTs. Much fairer. Our 1976 16-13 national title win over Maryland started with a Maryland goal. The fact we scored four more suggests the better team was Cornell.

The NCAA will say it has bigger things to worry about, like the possibility it collapses. But the lax committee ought to push something through.

Just grab him and hold him. Gently. Still, with only a few seconds to go, even a 3 minute penalty is inconsequential if it prevents the game tieing goal, right?

I like sudden death OT. Walk off goals are just electric.

chimpfood
I like sudden death OT. Walk off goals are just electric.

But a ridiculous way to decide a game when a goal is scored every two minutes. They did it right in 1976. Would you want sudden death in basketball?

10 of Cornell's 17 goals scored in regulation came in the last three minutes of a period.

Al DeFlorio

chimpfood
I like sudden death OT. Walk off goals are just electric.

But a ridiculous way to decide a game when a goal is scored every two minutes. They did it right in 1976. Would you want sudden death in basketball?

I’m fully on board with a full 4 or 5 minute OT period, followed by sudden death if we must.

Al DeFlorio
But a ridiculous way to decide a game when a goal is scored every two minutes. They did it right in 1976. Would you want sudden death in basketball?

My thoughts exactly.

[www.usalacrosse.com]

note that J Spallina has weighed in with a cryptic comment on the ejection

Cornell95
note that J Spallina has weighed in with a cryptic comment on the ejection

Spallina then refers to another Tweeter, who says that the ref is a former volunteer coach and employee at Cornell.

But he hedges, offering his version of "I'm not making accusations. I'm just asking the question."

I assumed the SU coach was tossed because he touched the ref while arguing. Ejection would be the appropriate penalty. I can't imagine another reason.

I think he is referring to Dan Miller who is a long-time lax ref in the area so Spallina is engaging in some conspiracy theories. I don't care what the sport is-Officiating is a tough business and it is why there is a shortage especially at the HS level. Miller has coached at a number of schools in the general region-not just Cornell.

Al DeFlorio

chimpfood
I like sudden death OT. Walk off goals are just electric.

Would you want sudden death in basketball?

I would like the entire sport of basketball to experience sudden death. Does that count?

TimV
Just grab him and hold him. Gently. Still, with only a few seconds to go, even a 3 minute penalty is inconsequential if it prevents the game tieing goal, right?

Right. But all I'm saying is a blatant (aka "professional" foul is not without risk.

Beat Harvard and Brown then ND becomes a game for a good seed.

got 3 quality wins and 3 quality losses, Beat ND or win a rd in the ivy and they are in the NCAA. lose both and the Harv/Brown games are must wins.

CU77

Al DeFlorio

chimpfood
I like sudden death OT. Walk off goals are just electric.

Would you want sudden death in basketball?

I would like the entire sport of basketball to experience sudden death. Does that count?

I used to be a big time Celtics fan but I literally cannot bring myself to watch more than 10 regular season games anymore. Even 7 game playoff series feels like overkill at times. College basketball rocks though, so much passion and not too much scoring.