Indoor sports facility announced

Meinig Fieldhouse will be next to the soccer field and will be big enough to hold lacrosse games, including room for spectators. Expected to open in 2026.
[news.cornell.edu]

Fantastic news

This is huge! Finally!!! Glad it’s in central campus and that they will allow all student organizations to use it! I’ve been railing for this for years, great for recruiting!!!

It's not in the linked article for some reason, but the link that the athletics department posted on Facebook has a rendering showing that the field hockey facility shifts to the west, behind Bartels Hall and closer to the Biotech Building, to make room for the indoor facility.
(I missed the giant photo at the top of the article showing this)

That is terrific news!

$55M. SMH.

Weder
It's not in the linked article for some reason, but the link that the athletics department posted on Facebook has a rendering showing that the field hockey facility shifts to the west, behind Bartels Hall and closer to the Biotech Building, to make room for the indoor facility.
(I missed the giant photo at the top of the article showing this)

So is that directly across Tower Rd. from Bradfield?

Trotsky

Weder
It's not in the linked article for some reason, but the link that the athletics department posted on Facebook has a rendering showing that the field hockey facility shifts to the west, behind Bartels Hall and closer to the Biotech Building, to make room for the indoor facility.
(I missed the giant photo at the top of the article showing this)

So is that directly across Tower Rd. from Bradfield?

Yeah, should be.

Good news that Cornell will have a field house for
* sports practice for athletes
* ability to play lacrosse (other games? soccer?) in the field house
* access for students
* on campus not out by the cow barns
* has spectator space (100? 250? 500? 1000?) -- 500 should hold the number of fans that show up early season for lacrosse

Cornell Sun has not yet weighed in as of Thursday afternoon. They have been busy covering Ho Plaza protests in support of solidarity with Palestine. Different department from sports.

I hope the lettering on the outside says Meinig Fieldhouse. It gets a bit much as when the name expands to, say, Nancy E. and Peter C. Meinig School of Biomedical Engineering (this exists), I have no problem with a long-form plaque inside the door, but when there's a haiku-number of words relating to full-naming in the first graf of a sports story, it's a killer.

This is a 120x60 yard field. If I recall, women's lacrosse fields are supposed to be 70 yards wide. Or is this like ice hockey, where there are 200 x 85 and 200 x 100 foot ("Olympic" rinks, and in some cases that works out to a home advantage.

At least Cornell will not be the last Ivy school with a permanent, full-field field house, or fieldhouse.

Maybe Qatar can donate for the field house since I know a bunch of alumni who want nothing to do with Cornell at the moment (rightly so).

Weder
Meinig Fieldhouse will be next to the soccer field and will be big enough to hold lacrosse games, including room for spectators. Expected to open in 2026.
[news.cornell.edu]

Does that mean we're giving up our "home ice advantage" for lax vs Syracuse?

Even in chilly weather, a Cornell-Syracuse game is worth 2000-3000 fans. I don't think even a first rate field house holds that many people. In the Carrier Dome, yes.

Do they change the rule on FIeld hockey being played on field turf? I thought they only allowed grass or Astro turf type fields?

In HS, you play on whatever field sheds water. In college, AstroTurf is what a college needs to have if it's to be a seriously considered place for recruits. AstroTurf keeps balls going straight but is said to be worse for burns and scrapes when you fall.

upprdeck
Do they change the rule on FIeld hockey being played on field turf? I thought they only allowed grass or Astro turf type fields?

Only mention of field hockey in announcement was the "rebuild" of Dodson.

Weder
Meinig Fieldhouse will be next to the soccer field and will be big enough to hold lacrosse games, including room for spectators. Expected to open in 2026.
[news.cornell.edu]

I’ll pencil in 2031 for the first grumblings that it’s inadequate and outdated because Princeton built something better.

Great naming opportunities still available: [cornellbigred.com]

$10 million for the turf field
Only $500,000 for one of two entrances.

Swim team alumni are still upset that no replacement has been announced for Teagle. It can't help the swim coaches recruit against Ivies which have much nicer and newer pools.

Please, please do the Block C on the wall as in that last link instead of the Huggy Bear in the Chronicle article

I am very happy Cornell is finally getting a new indoor practice facility and it's something former AD Andy Noel had been working on for at least the last 15 years. It's also great that Cornell has some very generous donors. However, as someone who has spent his career in finance, I do not understand the $55MM price tag. For that price Cornell can build a new indoor practice facility, construct a new swimming pool, and replace the West Stands at Schoellkopf. Ithaca is located in Upstate NY, not NYC where you can still buy a nice house for under $300K. Maybe not in the Ithaca city limits but definitely in nearby Syracuse, Binghamton, and Elmira. My brother in-law who lives in Syracuse has a beautiful home he recently purchased for $150K and renovated the entire property himself. Syracuse University's new practice facility cost $14MM. Another example, you can drive from Buffalo to Poughkeepsie and it will be very difficult to find any buildings that cost $55MM. Our local community college constructed an indoor practice facility about 15 years ago for less than $5MM. It drives me nuts when not-for-profit universities are so irresponsible with their spending. No wonder why it costs $80K per year to attend Cornell.

The SU one cost more like 20-25 million and that was started 10 yrs ago. Its original budget was 17 million and it went up.

Also the Cornell cost includes the money for the upkeep which is a good chunk of money, many many millions.

it has some things the SU one doesnt have. better scoreboards, seating and storage. Team rooms and many other rooms, dividers built in for multi sport use.

Since the money is mostly donated funds that cant be used for other things how is it being wasted?

Im sure some of the cost is for relocating the fields its replacing as well as the construction is somewhat complicated due to its location.

I would think even SU if they were building theirs now would see it cost 5-10 millon more

Local Motion
I am very happy Cornell is finally getting a new indoor practice facility and it's something former AD Andy Noel had been working on for at least the last 15 years. It's also great that Cornell has some very generous donors. However, as someone who has spent his career in finance, I do not understand the $55MM price tag. For that price Cornell can build a new indoor practice facility, construct a new swimming pool, and replace the West Stands at Schoellkopf. Ithaca is located in Upstate NY, not NYC where you can still buy a nice house for under $300K. Maybe not in the Ithaca city limits but definitely in nearby Syracuse, Binghamton, and Elmira. My brother in-law who lives in Syracuse has a beautiful home he recently purchased for $150K and renovated the entire property himself. Syracuse University's new practice facility cost $14MM. Another example, you can drive from Buffalo to Poughkeepsie and it will be very difficult to find any buildings that cost $55MM. Our local community college constructed an indoor practice facility about 15 years ago for less than $5MM. It drives me nuts when not-for-profit universities are so irresponsible with their spending. No wonder why it costs $80K per year to attend Cornell.

Don't agree at all with your statement. Dartmouth's indoor practice facility, which is smaller than what Cornell will build, was built 3 years ago at a cost of $27 million. The $55 million price is pretty much in line with the larger facility planned and inflation.

I would guess the money set aside for upkeep is in the 10-20 million range. so its in the budget but its not being spent.. Which also why the project was announced with a large amount left to be raised since its not part of the construction cost but the project cost,

From the announcement:

Cornell Chronicle article
Along with support from the university, a core group of benefactors has committed $32.5 million toward the design and construction of the fieldhouse; additional donor support is currently being sought for the remainder of the project’s estimated $55 million total cost.

The Syracuse indoor practice facility which is the exact same dimensions as their stadium field cost $14MM in 2015. OK add $5MM for inflation and construction costs and we are at $19MM. Meanwhile, I am on the board of a charter school that just built a beautiful new basketball arena with 800 seats, new men's and women's locker rooms, new fitness center, and three new science laboratory classrooms all for just over $4MM. Posters an indoor practice facility is nothing more than a pole barn with turf. Sure jazz it up a little, but it's still a big pole barn with turf. Cornell is probably using a super expensive architectural firm from NYC and labor that will delay this project forever. There is no other entity in Upstate NY that would spend this kind of money on any 100K sq ft facility.

Local Motion
The Syracuse indoor practice facility which is the exact same dimensions as their stadium field cost $14MM in 2015. OK add $5MM for inflation and construction costs and we are at $19MM. Meanwhile, I am on the board of a charter school that just built a beautiful new basketball arena with 800 seats, new men's and women's locker rooms, new fitness center, and three new science laboratory classrooms all for just over $4MM. Posters an indoor practice facility is nothing more than a pole barn with turf. Sure jazz it up a little, but it's still a big pole barn with turf. Cornell is probably using a super expensive architectural firm from NYC and labor that will delay this project forever. There is no other entity in Upstate NY that would spend this kind of money on any 100K sq ft facility.

Yeah, but common sense goes out the window when it's universities and rich donors. RIT spent $40 million on its hockey rink in 2014. Obviously a hockey rink has a lot more going on, but this is also a 100k sq. ft. facility.

Binghamton is spending $60 million on a baseball stadium of less than 100k sq. ft.

Local Motion
The Syracuse indoor practice facility which is the exact same dimensions as their stadium field cost $14MM in 2015. OK add $5MM for inflation and construction costs and we are at $19MM. Meanwhile, I am on the board of a charter school that just built a beautiful new basketball arena with 800 seats, new men's and women's locker rooms, new fitness center, and three new science laboratory classrooms all for just over $4MM. Posters an indoor practice facility is nothing more than a pole barn with turf. Sure jazz it up a little, but it's still a big pole barn with turf. Cornell is probably using a super expensive architectural firm from NYC and labor that will delay this project forever. There is no other entity in Upstate NY that would spend this kind of money on any 100K sq ft facility.

Nellie Negative at it again.

Local Motion
The Syracuse indoor practice facility which is the exact same dimensions as their stadium field cost $14MM in 2015. OK add $5MM for inflation and construction costs and we are at $19MM. Meanwhile, I am on the board of a charter school that just built a beautiful new basketball arena with 800 seats, new men's and women's locker rooms, new fitness center, and three new science laboratory classrooms all for just over $4MM. Posters an indoor practice facility is nothing more than a pole barn with turf. Sure jazz it up a little, but it's still a big pole barn with turf. Cornell is probably using a super expensive architectural firm from NYC and labor that will delay this project forever. There is no other entity in Upstate NY that would spend this kind of money on any 100K sq ft facility.

IF the SU one costs 20 million how much do you think it costs to run the bldg every year? make it cheap 500K for 20 yrs.. thats 10 million so the real budget is 30 million

Just like your 4mill bldg what is the cost for that to stay open and used beyond just what you use it for bball games?

A bldg this size is going to require some full time staff to maintain/clean it. Make that cheap, 2 people 50k plus benefits for 20 yrs. 150K x 20 thats 3 million in the budget that i dont expect your BB building has any budget built in for.

Its field turf that stuff lasts but not 20 yrs so thats anothe 2 million around yr 10. That stuff requires constant upkeep as well.

Cornell requires many of these costs be funded before building new ones these days.

I spoke with our neighbor who is a professor of Kinesiology (study of movement) at our community college and she also works with the women's soccer team. Community college professors often wear multiple hats. She said their field house which includes 140' by 240' indoor Field Turf along with a running track and a new fitness center (weight and aerobic equipment) total cost was built in 2010 for $6MM. The facility is used by all varsity teams, intramurals, and fitness activities. It's a beautiful facility and the weight room is quite impressive too. She said both their soccer and lacrosse teams play scrimmages there during inclement weather. In terms of maintenance the community college already has a maintenance and cleaning staff that cares for the facility, meaning it does not cost them millions of dollars. I would assume Cornell has a similar maintenance and cleaning staff.

Again I think building a new indoor practice facility at Cornell is great, but it's ridiculous our students are paying $80K per year to attend Cornell which is many times the cost of inflation when I attended Cornell. I still have a copy of my tuition, room, and board from the 1980's as the total for the year was $5,800. Just do the math, $5,800 40 years ago is present value today = $17,879. OK round it up over $12K and we are at $30K. Granted I was in CALS but it's still ridiculous and a significant reason why a college education is placing these kids in significant student loan debt.

Just like at Cornell I am sure the avg prof on campus knows how the costs are computed for upkeep..

If they don't think adding buildings means extra cost/staff that's fine. you don't add 100k of building space at no cost.

I mean who is paying for the lights/elec/water that it consumes, replacing the roof in 15-20 yrs., replacing the turf in 10 yrs.

Why Cornell's facility might cost more than somebody else's indoor facility from 5+ years ago? Possible causes:

• Inflation
• Cornell requires a big set-aside for 10? 20? 25? more? years of upkeep; it feels like Cornell is more fiscally responsible
• Roof high enough to play lacrosse, ? soccer ? not just a roof good enough to practice for the games that are then played outside
• Spectator seating (some but not a lot)*
• Better lighting; some indoor fields are really dim
• Nicer facility. Look at any sports facility Princeton built the last 30 years and theirs is nicer. Such as the 4,000-seat lacrosse/soccer Class of 1952 Stadium. As is their endowment (~$2 million per student vs. Cornell's $500K per student, even if this is donated not endowment money; it speaks to how much other Ivy schools can fundraise). The current soccer field feels like a HS facility, i.e. seats not elevated, albeit nicer exterior surround
• Does the cost include moving other fields around such as field hockey?
• Ground penetrating radar surveys so you don't be driving Meinig Fieldhouse pilings through the synchrotron ring (photo)

* I still have not heard how many fans can be accommodated. I believe lacrosse coach Connor Buczek described it as minimal but without citing a number.

billhoward
[*] Ground penetrating radar surveys so you don't be driving Meinig Fieldhouse pilings through the synchrotron ring (photo)

TIL the synchrotron is only 40 feet deep.

you also cant be just constructing when synchrotron is in use that requires some planning.. like when they were doing the campus store and bio tech they could only do the Dynomite/digging certain times around the research projects.

this project has been on the books for several years already, so they have spent money and it still hasnt been approved by the city so more will be spent before it really gets off the groun.

More details emerge with the filing of Site Plan Review paperwork. [ithacavoice.org]
90,000 square feet. 56 feet tall. $41M "hard costs". Open winter 2025-26

As for the interior space, the application touts the desire for the new building to be “a campus hub” for varsity, club and intramural practices and a limited number of lacrosse competitions. The overall dimensions and height of the field house are intended to support a field that will be programmed to support NCAA requirements for both women’s and men’s varsity lacrosse competition; a varsity soccer pitch for practices; and the facility will host campus recreation, club and intramural sport teams.

A synthetic turf field with rubber/sand infill will comprise most of the usable ground floor space within the proposed building. The ground level will also contain a mechanical room, restrooms, a training room and storage. There will be a mezzanine level on the south side of the field, along with two team rooms, restrooms, an area for elevated filming and mechanical spaces, accessible by both stairs and elevator. Space along the south wall of the proposed building will provide an area for a limited number of spectators on both the field level and the mezzanine level.

The 23-page Site Plan linked from the Ithaca Voice story emphasizes the exterior aspects like storm water management.

David Harding
More details emerge with the filing of Site Plan Review paperwork. [ithacavoice.org]
90,000 square feet. 56 feet tall. $41M "hard costs". Open winter 2025-26

As for the interior space, the application touts the desire for the new building to be “a campus hub” for varsity, club and intramural practices and a limited number of lacrosse competitions. The overall dimensions and height of the field house are intended to support a field that will be programmed to support NCAA requirements for both women’s and men’s varsity lacrosse competition; a varsity soccer pitch for practices; and the facility will host campus recreation, club and intramural sport teams.

A synthetic turf field with rubber/sand infill will comprise most of the usable ground floor space within the proposed building. The ground level will also contain a mechanical room, restrooms, a training room and storage. There will be a mezzanine level on the south side of the field, along with two team rooms, restrooms, an area for elevated filming and mechanical spaces, accessible by both stairs and elevator. Space along the south wall of the proposed building will provide an area for a limited number of spectators on both the field level and the mezzanine level.

The 23-page Site Plan linked from the Ithaca Voice story emphasizes the exterior aspects like storm water management.

The project architect, Sasaki, designed Dartmouth's indoor practice facility which is only 76,000 sq ft in size, not a full football field like Cornell's will be.

Athletics now has a fancy web page. [cornellbigred.com]

Martha E. Pollack, President of Cornell University
Athletics and physical education are critical parts of the Cornell experience, contributing in important ways to our students’ wellness and sense of belonging. The new Meinig Fieldhouse will significantly enhance the opportunities available to our students to participate in both varsity athletics and recreational sports, and will serve as a welcoming place to build friendships and self-confidence. I am delighted to be making this important investment in our students’ potential, and look forward to seeing Cornellians benefit from the Meinig Fieldhouse for decades to come.

David Harding
Athletics now has a fancy web page. [cornellbigred.com]

Martha E. Pollack, President of Cornell University
Athletics and physical education are critical parts of the Cornell experience, contributing in important ways to our students’ wellness and sense of belonging. The new Meinig Fieldhouse will significantly enhance the opportunities available to our students to participate in both varsity athletics and recreational sports, and will serve as a welcoming place to build friendships and self-confidence. I am delighted to be making this important investment in our students’ potential, and look forward to seeing Cornellians benefit from the Meinig Fieldhouse for decades to come.

People are playing soccer with a lacrosse goal.

[cornellbigred.com]

I am in the construction industry. You don't know what you're talking about with regard to cost escalations for both labor and materials since Covid.

looks more to me like 3 people are kicking a soccer ball around and some others are walking around the field

Mr. Niss
I am in the construction industry. You don't know what you're talking about with regard to cost escalations for both labor and materials since Covid.

Is the materials spike permanent or was it an artifact of logistics issues? I thought it was the latter, but I'm not in the biz.

Trotsky

Mr. Niss
I am in the construction industry. You don't know what you're talking about with regard to cost escalations for both labor and materials since Covid.

Is the materials spike permanent or was it an artifact of logistics issues? I thought it was the latter, but I'm not in the biz.

When prices go up, they rarely come back down much (if at all) ... materials prices remain significantly increased from Feb 2020 notwithstanding some improvement in supply chain issues, and labor costs remain extremely high due to a shortage of laborers

One step at a time. Ithaca Planning Board has some suggestions.
[ithacavoice.org]

David Harding
One step at a time. Ithaca Planning Board has some suggestions.
[ithacavoice.org]

I watched the session. They didn't read the submitted site review documentation very well. Some of their questions/concerns were explained there. Anyway, I'm expecting it should move through the review process fairly smoothly, and construction to start in the Fall.

Ken711

David Harding
One step at a time. Ithaca Planning Board has some suggestions.
[ithacavoice.org]

I watched the session. They didn't read the submitted site review documentation very well. Some of their questions/concerns were explained there. Anyway, I'm expecting it should move through the review process fairly smoothly, and construction to start in the Fall.

Well, comparing the architect's rendition with the comment about landscaping, I'd have to agree with the planning board. The rendition shows a more-or-less generic building that could be in Kansas. How about at least a few trees in the foreground?

Local politics is typically which developer got the last bribe into the pols before the vote. Is Ithaca the same way, or is there a different dynamic?

David Harding
One step at a time. Ithaca Planning Board has some suggestions.
[ithacavoice.org]

Ithaca Voice
The board had some suggestions. Daniel Correa lauded the use of Sasaki Associates as landscape architect, but felt the landscaping was lacking in interest, and suggested decorative boulders or a small-quad like layout, and Chair Mitch Glass added that “it needs a lot more attention.” Emily Petrina liked the building design, and wanted Cornell to commit to solar arrays on the roof. There were also some concerns about the use of a synthetic turf field.

Having covered small- and medium-size planning board meetings, I am fearful of planning boards elsewhere that make well-intended and sometimes clueless suggestions. (Example: In present day historic districts, rejecting as bad taste colorful paint colors on late 1800s Victorian houses, not knowing bold colors were not uncommon common then (the painted ladies), and the boldest colors cost more so it was an indication of wealth.) If IV writer Brian Crandall quoted them accurately (he has been writing for some time), what else do you install on the ground of an indoor building if not synthetic turf?

Solar panels are a good idea but add initial cost. Decorative rocks? I believe even the larger Alumni Fields of fifty years ago had no rocks. Maybe Cornell should get credit for the rocks around Beebe Lake.

I still haven't heard how many spectators would fit for lacrosse.

billhoward

David Harding
One step at a time. Ithaca Planning Board has some suggestions.
[ithacavoice.org]

Ithaca Voice
The board had some suggestions. Daniel Correa lauded the use of Sasaki Associates as landscape architect, but felt the landscaping was lacking in interest, and suggested decorative boulders or a small-quad like layout, and Chair Mitch Glass added that “it needs a lot more attention.” Emily Petrina liked the building design, and wanted Cornell to commit to solar arrays on the roof. There were also some concerns about the use of a synthetic turf field.

Having covered small- and medium-size planning board meetings, I am fearful of planning boards elsewhere that make well-intended and sometimes clueless suggestions. (Example: In present day historic districts, rejecting as bad taste colorful paint colors on late 1800s Victorian houses, not knowing bold colors were not uncommon common then (the painted ladies), and the boldest colors cost more so it was an indication of wealth.) If IV writer Brian Crandall quoted them accurately (he has been writing for some time), what else do you install on the ground of an indoor building if not synthetic turf?

Solar panels are a good idea but add initial cost. Decorative rocks? I believe even the larger Alumni Fields of fifty years ago had no rocks. Maybe Cornell should get credit for the rocks around Beebe Lake.

I still haven't heard how many spectators would fit for lacrosse.

With luck, including great coaches and continued stellar recruiting, and assuming Ithaca weather does its part, there will be a couple of indoor games per year, and the lines to get tickets will resemble those to get season hockey tickets during the late sixties and early seventies.

billhoward

David Harding
One step at a time. Ithaca Planning Board has some suggestions.
[ithacavoice.org]

Ithaca Voice
The board had some suggestions. Daniel Correa lauded the use of Sasaki Associates as landscape architect, but felt the landscaping was lacking in interest, and suggested decorative boulders or a small-quad like layout, and Chair Mitch Glass added that “it needs a lot more attention.” Emily Petrina liked the building design, and wanted Cornell to commit to solar arrays on the roof. There were also some concerns about the use of a synthetic turf field.

Having covered small- and medium-size planning board meetings, I am fearful of planning boards elsewhere that make well-intended and sometimes clueless suggestions. (Example: In present day historic districts, rejecting as bad taste colorful paint colors on late 1800s Victorian houses, not knowing bold colors were not uncommon common then (the painted ladies), and the boldest colors cost more so it was an indication of wealth.) If IV writer Brian Crandall quoted them accurately (he has been writing for some time), what else do you install on the ground of an indoor building if not synthetic turf?

Solar panels are a good idea but add initial cost. Decorative rocks? I believe even the larger Alumni Fields of fifty years ago had no rocks. Maybe Cornell should get credit for the rocks around Beebe Lake.

I still haven't heard how many spectators would fit for lacrosse.

The question on the artificial turf was for the new field hockey field that will be built in conjunction with the indoor center, not the indoor center's field surface. They won't be installing a turf field with the ground up tires fill that has been the subject of contention. Again this was covered in their submission material.

I thought I read somewhere that 500-600 spectators accommodated for lacrosse. I think there is upper level seating on one side

I see mention of a second level in building. 500 should hold most of the fans for the February / early March games. I recall attendance numbers of 250-500 at Schoellkopf for early lax games.

Once the place is open, and since non-athlete students are said to be getting some level of access, I bet Cornell wishes it had the money to build two indoor fields.

I saw in the planning documents going before the Ithaca Town Planning committee that Cornell will build the new field hockey field at the Game Farm road athletic complex, instead of next to the new fieldhouse. They will instead construct a multi-sports field next to the Meinig Fieldhouse. That will allow this multi-sport field to be used by other variety teams, as well as for recreational use. This is a good change that will help more variety teams as well as for general student recreational use.

Ken711
I saw in the planning documents going before the Ithaca Town Planning committee that Cornell will build the new field hockey field at the Game Farm road athletic complex, instead of next to the new fieldhouse. They will instead construct a multi-sports field next to the Meinig Fieldhouse. That will allow this multi-sport field to be used by other variety teams, as well as for recreational use. This is a good change that will help more variety teams as well as for general student recreational use.

The Ithaca Voice digs into some of the technicalities of the approval process and reports, in part

As for specific changes, the outdoor field is now larger, with the outdoor flagpole, press box and spectator seating removed, and the light poles have shifted and grown slightly, from 70 feet to 80 feet. The fieldhouse itself hasn’t significantly changed, and the goal is to obtain approval by October for a Q4 2024 – Q2 2026 construction period.

Regarding the artificial turf controversy, Michaels said “we’re going to have a dialog,” so that issue will continue to be of concern with environmental advocacy groups.

“Why aren’t we looking at natural grass here?” asked Chair Glass. “There are some great technologies around.”

“Next month I will bring someone who knows more about the sciency stuff. Absolutely we should be thoughtful about when we’re using plastics, and reducing it where we can,” said Michaels.

The Ithaca Voice
Regarding the artificial turf controversy, Michaels said “we’re going to have a dialog,” so that issue will continue to be of concern with environmental advocacy groups.

“Why aren’t we looking at natural grass here?” asked Chair Glass. “There are some great technologies around.”

“Next month I will bring someone who knows more about the sciency stuff. Absolutely we should be thoughtful about when we’re using plastics, and reducing it where we can,” said Michaels.

Is there some implied sarcasm there in quoting this part of the story? As to educated people not understanding that even the very best traditional, organic grass can't come close to matching the 7x24x4-seasons availability of synthetic turf?

1960s, when AstroTurf became available, it was way expensive and only big time colleges plus some pro teams could afford it. Cornell finally get artificial turf for the 1971, I believe, season, Ed Marinaro's junior year. Now, artificial turf is so cheap relative to how many grass fields it replaces, that is the go-to surface for most ever high school and quite a few rec league fields.

I don't know that field turf is all that inexpensive. Its usability is higher though. The fact that is also has alike a 10 yr life span has to be factored in.

upprdeck
I don't know that field turf is all that inexpensive. Its usability is higher though. The fact that is also has alike a 10 yr life span has to be factored in.

I'm with Bill here. Just look at how many (not necessarily well heeled) high schools justify turf. It's sure as hell a lot different than 1971- by at least an order of magnitude.

You can't utilize a grass field for a multitude of sports in the Ithaca climate, with the area's short growing season. A artificial field turf surface is the only practical way possible unless you want a mud bowl 6 months out of the year.

billhoward

The Ithaca Voice
Regarding the artificial turf controversy, Michaels said “we’re going to have a dialog,” so that issue will continue to be of concern with environmental advocacy groups.

“Why aren’t we looking at natural grass here?” asked Chair Glass. “There are some great technologies around.”

“Next month I will bring someone who knows more about the sciency stuff. Absolutely we should be thoughtful about when we’re using plastics, and reducing it where we can,” said Michaels.

Is there some implied sarcasm there in quoting this part of the story? As to educated people not understanding that even the very best traditional, organic grass can't come close to matching the 7x24x4-seasons availability of synthetic turf?

1960s, when AstroTurf became available, it was way expensive and only big time colleges plus some pro teams could afford it. Cornell finally get artificial turf for the 1971, I believe, season, Ed Marinaro's junior year. Now, artificial turf is so cheap relative to how many grass fields it replaces, that is the go-to surface for most ever high school and quite a few rec league fields.

No sarcasm implied on my part. It just seemed like the section most likely to generate comment here.

Ken711
You can't utilize a grass field for a multitude of sports in the Ithaca climate, with the area's short growing season. A artificial field turf surface is the only practical way possible unless you want a mud bowl 6 months out of the year.

I agree, except many schools dont play multi sports on the grass fb field anyway.

Most schools play FB and soccer on different fields.

One advantage is can practice more on the real field with turf.

the upkeep on turf fields is still there, just not the mowing.

Some have a track around the FB field.

Some of the bigger schools have LAx which is in the spring and doesnt really matter that much either way.

The HS kids I know playing FB prefer grass fields. 99% of them are not going on to play in college anyway and Fb games in the Mud is the thing they remember when its all said and done. FB on turf is a diff beast.

upprdeck

the upkeep on turf fields is still there, just not the mowing.

And the watering, fertilizing, etc, ?

Swampy

upprdeck

the upkeep on turf fields is still there, just not the mowing.

And the watering, fertilizing, etc, ?

Yep, and re-seeding.

An artificial turf football field costs 550,000 to $1,350,000, says [sportsvenuecalculator.com]

Turf fields also require a supply of the pellets to respread and a special spreading device, maybe not a special tractor though

upprdeck
Turf fields also require a supply of the pellets to respread and a special spreading device, maybe not a special tractor though

Cornell already possesses the equipment needed to refill and groom turf fields.

and yet they had issues with the baseball field.

upprdeck
and yet they had issues with the baseball field.

Pellets degraded by tobacco juice.

I did not expect the planning board to bog down over the use of field turn in an indoor PF. Going down the fossil fuel road was a stretch.

upprdeck
I did not expect the planning board to bog down over the use of field turn in an indoor PF. Going down the fossil fuel road was a stretch.[/quote}

The issue is the outdoor multi-use field surface to be built adjacent to the field house. There is no feasible way to have natural grass playing surface for the indoor facility itself, that's just folly to even raise that point.

The artificial turf issue isn't going away quickly. There is serious concern about the impact of PFAS, both immediate and long-term. [ithacavoice.org]

So why was this not an issue when they installed turf on the other fields on campus but its one now.

Did the new baseball field get made of more magic pellets?

Started last year with protests over the new turf at the Ithaca College football field

PFAS are not a frivolous issue.

PFAS are used to help carpets, upholstery, and other fabrics resist staining, and to repel water from clothes, shoes, sports equipment, and luggage. If buying new, look for products without stain or water resistance. Personal care products like shampoo, dental floss, and cosmetics. I guess everyone with now be required to have hardwood floors instead of carpeting in their homes.

Ken711
PFAS are used to help carpets, upholstery, and other fabrics resist staining, and to repel water from clothes, shoes, sports equipment, and luggage. If buying new, look for products without stain or water resistance. Personal care products like shampoo, dental floss, and cosmetics. I guess everyone with now be required to have hardwood floors instead of carpeting in their homes.

Extreme thinking. Twitter-ready.

mike1960
PFAS are not a frivolous issue.

Hasn't been for a quarter of a century.

Ithaca City planning board advanced the Meinig Fieldhouse project after determining it had no negative CEQR affects. The approval came after Cornell made the decision to use plant-based infill for the outside multi-purpose field. The next step is submission of preliminary site plan in October, final site [lan approval in November, and construction to start in December/January.

Happy that this important project is progressing…

Ken711
Ithaca City planning board advanced the Meinig Fieldhouse project after determining it had no negative CEQR affects. The approval came after Cornell made the decision to use plant-based infill for the outside multi-purpose field. The next step is submission of preliminary site plan in October, final site [lan approval in November, and construction to start in December/January.

Here's a report on the Planning Board meeting. [ithacavoice.org]

I am not sure why environmental protesters have concerns about turf that is indoors, because unless you have a retractable roof grass is not even an option. However, on the second outdoor field adjacent to the indoor facility as a former student-athlete they should plant grass and not install another turf field. Afterall Cornell is the home of the Ag & Life Sciences and having another grass field with good drainage is all you need. Some NFL teams that now use natural grass, line the field with gravel or sinders underneath the top soil, so the field drains easily. Whether practicing football, soccer, lacrosse etc. nothing beats a well mowed and maintained grass athletic field. One of the reasons why we practiced on Alumni Fields was to get off the turf as no doubt the grass prevented injuries.

Local Motion
I am not sure why environmental protesters have concerns about turf that is indoors, because unless you have a retractable roof grass is not even an option. However, on the second outdoor field adjacent to the indoor facility as a former student-athlete they should plant grass and not install another turf field. Afterall Cornell is the home of the Ag & Life Sciences and having another grass field with good drainage is all you need. Some NFL teams that now use natural grass, line the field with gravel or sinders underneath the top soil, so the field drains easily. Whether practicing football, soccer, lacrosse etc. nothing beats a well mowed and maintained grass athletic field. One of the reasons why we practiced on Alumni Fields was to get off the turf as no doubt the grass prevented injuries.

The grass field not hold up with the amount of year round usage.

Ken711

Local Motion
I am not sure why environmental protesters have concerns about turf that is indoors, because unless you have a retractable roof grass is not even an option. However, on the second outdoor field adjacent to the indoor facility as a former student-athlete they should plant grass and not install another turf field. Afterall Cornell is the home of the Ag & Life Sciences and having another grass field with good drainage is all you need. Some NFL teams that now use natural grass, line the field with gravel or sinders underneath the top soil, so the field drains easily. Whether practicing football, soccer, lacrosse etc. nothing beats a well mowed and maintained grass athletic field. One of the reasons why we practiced on Alumni Fields was to get off the turf as no doubt the grass prevented injuries.

The grass field not hold up with the amount of year round usage.

Sounds like an excellent problem for the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences to solve.

The Rancor

Ken711

Local Motion
I am not sure why environmental protesters have concerns about turf that is indoors, because unless you have a retractable roof grass is not even an option. However, on the second outdoor field adjacent to the indoor facility as a former student-athlete they should plant grass and not install another turf field. Afterall Cornell is the home of the Ag & Life Sciences and having another grass field with good drainage is all you need. Some NFL teams that now use natural grass, line the field with gravel or sinders underneath the top soil, so the field drains easily. Whether practicing football, soccer, lacrosse etc. nothing beats a well mowed and maintained grass athletic field. One of the reasons why we practiced on Alumni Fields was to get off the turf as no doubt the grass prevented injuries.

The grass field not hold up with the amount of year round usage.

Sounds like an excellent problem for the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences to solve.

On Fox News tonight I noticed they were making fun of people who don't want to use toilet paper containing forever chemicals. This alone should be a good case for using natural grass.

As my mother used to say, "If a moron told you not to worry about forever chemicals, would you follow their advice?"

The Rancor

Ken711

Local Motion
I am not sure why environmental protesters have concerns about turf that is indoors, because unless you have a retractable roof grass is not even an option. However, on the second outdoor field adjacent to the indoor facility as a former student-athlete they should plant grass and not install another turf field. Afterall Cornell is the home of the Ag & Life Sciences and having another grass field with good drainage is all you need. Some NFL teams that now use natural grass, line the field with gravel or sinders underneath the top soil, so the field drains easily. Whether practicing football, soccer, lacrosse etc. nothing beats a well mowed and maintained grass athletic field. One of the reasons why we practiced on Alumni Fields was to get off the turf as no doubt the grass prevented injuries.

The grass field not hold up with the amount of year round usage.

Sounds like an excellent problem for the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences to solve.

My uncle worked in the Plant Pathology department at Cornell, I'm confident no amount of science can solve this problem, and more importantly, you can't also control the winter climate in Ithaca . It doesn't matter in any case, as the artificial turf fields and the project have already been approved and are advancing towards the construction phase.

Groundwater is a precious resource, and easily contaminated.

The Ithaca City Planning Board gave preliminary and final site plan approval to the Meinig Fieldhouse. Construction should begin in December/January.

Ken711
The Ithaca City Planning Board gave preliminary and final site plan approval to the Meinig Fieldhouse. Construction should begin in December/January.

Bravo!

scoop85

Ken711
The Ithaca City Planning Board gave preliminary and final site plan approval to the Meinig Fieldhouse. Construction should begin in December/January.

Bravo!

Being able to take new recruits in all the varsity sport teams to the construction site is bound to be a big tool in attracting student/athletes to Cornell.

The Rancor
Sounds like an excellent problem for the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences to solve.

If pigs had wings, they still wouldn't leave the runway. Some problems are solvable with time, talent, technology and money. I'm not sure you can make grass stand up to multiple hours of use daily in freezing weather.

Mid-1960s, artificial turf, the kind that led to lots of ankle and knee injuries, was cool, expensive, and only a top twenty school could afford it. Cornell got its first artificial turf for, I think it was fall 1971 allowing Ed Marinaro '72 to play his final season on it. Now many, many high schools have it as well as colleges because the cost over the ~10-year lifespan of the rug is less than 10 years maintaining the turf and then only for a handful of games.

I bet the 10-year surface in Meinig will last 5 years because it gets so much use that the turf is worn out.

Ken711
The Ithaca City Planning Board gave preliminary and final site plan approval to the Meinig Fieldhouse. Construction should begin in December/January.

Here's a long report from The Ithaca Voice

A proposed sports facility at Cornell has cleared another hurdle. On Tuesday, the Town of Ithaca’s Planning Board gave its approval for the Meinig Fieldhouse. The 90-thousand-square-foot facility would come with outdoor practice areas. Last approval needed is a zoning variance due to the the building height which will then clear the way for building permits and ultimately the start of construction

Cornell put out a release that they broke ground on the new fieldhouse project. Bravo.

The final hurdle was met on Tuesday, October 22nd when the Town of Ithaca zoning Board granted a zoning variance approval since the field house's 56' height exceeded the 38' height restriction for low residential property in the Town of Ithaca. The soon to start construction will allow for a great recruiting tool for this years recruiting cycle in varsity sports.

CAS
Cornell put out a release that they broke ground on the new fieldhouse project. Bravo.

[news.cornell.edu]

Ken711
The final hurdle was met on Tuesday, October 22nd when the Town of Ithaca zoning Board granted a zoning variance approval since the field house's 56' height exceeded the 38' height restriction for low residential property in the Town of Ithaca. The soon to start construction will allow for a great recruiting tool for this years recruiting cycle in varsity sports.

Why is the field house subject to RESIDENTIAL zoning laws?

Swampy

Ken711
The final hurdle was met on Tuesday, October 22nd when the Town of Ithaca zoning Board granted a zoning variance approval since the field house's 56' height exceeded the 38' height restriction for low residential property in the Town of Ithaca. The soon to start construction will allow for a great recruiting tool for this years recruiting cycle in varsity sports.

Why is the field house subject to RESIDENTIAL zoning laws?

because it's a HOUSE duh

Swampy

Ken711
The final hurdle was met on Tuesday, October 22nd when the Town of Ithaca zoning Board granted a zoning variance approval since the field house's 56' height exceeded the 38' height restriction for low residential property in the Town of Ithaca. The soon to start construction will allow for a great recruiting tool for this years recruiting cycle in varsity sports.

Why is the field house subject to RESIDENTIAL zoning laws?

That's the default and the Town of Ithaca didn't bother to carve out an exception for Cornell property. Zoning map here

David Harding

Swampy

Ken711
The final hurdle was met on Tuesday, October 22nd when the Town of Ithaca zoning Board granted a zoning variance approval since the field house's 56' height exceeded the 38' height restriction for low residential property in the Town of Ithaca. The soon to start construction will allow for a great recruiting tool for this years recruiting cycle in varsity sports.

Why is the field house subject to RESIDENTIAL zoning laws?

That's the default and the Town of Ithaca didn't bother to carve out an exception for Cornell property. Zoning map here

So Cornell is allowed to build an "indoor sports facility" in an area zoned "Low Density Residential"? This reminds me of the chemical factories built in areas zoned for residential & elementary schools in Louisiana's "Cancer Alley, What's the point of zoning the area to be residential and then allowing all sorts of other uses, but no residential buildings? Even more absurd is the idea that the sports facility needed a zoning variance to get around the height limit on residential buildings.

I expected this. Dianne Woelke, a board member of Safe and Healthy Playing Fields, is mentioned in the lawsuit challenging the integrity of the submitted reports. Woelke contended the project could proceed without artificial turf fields, in an interview with The Ithaca Voice.. Huh? A natural grass indoor field? lol

ITHACA, N.Y. — A local environmental advocacy group has filed a lawsuit challenging Cornell University’s controversial Meinig Fieldhouse project, riling up local activists concerned about its inclusion of a synthetic turf field and its potential environmental impacts.

The project, which broke ground in late October, includes the construction of a 90,000 square-foot indoor recreation center.

I don't recall the outrage Moravia just installed a field turf field this year just down the road?

upprdeck
I don't recall the outrage Moravia just installed a field turf field this year just down the road?

Trying to get the courts to override the Ithaca City Planning Board who did their job in reviewing the application is a lost cause and waste of taxpayer money. Beyond the fact that a natural grass indoor field is both impractical and not even an option...but oh well.

Ken711

upprdeck
I don't recall the outrage Moravia just installed a field turf field this year just down the road?

Trying to get the courts to override the Ithaca City Planning Board who did their job in reviewing the application is a lost cause and waste of taxpayer money. Beyond the fact that a natural grass indoor field is both impractical and not even an option...but oh well.

Don't forget the appeals process when the court dismisses their suit.

After the appeal their cousins can sue and appeal.