Men’s Basketball 23-24

College sports as we know it may be over.

NLRB rules that Dartmouth basketball players can unionize

djk26
College sports as we know it may be over.

NLRB rules that Dartmouth basketball players can unionize

Rick Pitino isn't one of my favorite people, but in the aftermath of this ruling he actually made a suggestion which I've been saying for a long time. He's calling for colleges to pay salaries to the athletes, and quit the facade (at least at many schools) of the "student-athlete." Just pay them to play for their schools and have a salary cap.
Pitino tweeted Tuesday that the major conferences in college basketball should join forces and create a salary cap of up to $2 million. He did not specify if that number would include name, image and likeness payments or funding directly from schools.
"For basketball, have the Power 5 [and] Big East conference commissioners get together and create a salary cap between [$1.5 and $2 million]," Pitino tweeted. "All contracts delivered to the league and school offices.
"Do away with letters of intent, make athletes sign a [two-year] binding contract, no different than professional athletes -- which they are," Pitino tweeted. "With that, the [NIL] collective puts together their NIL contract based on the cap. Obviously, a lot has to go into this. I believe the NCAA should be taken out of the equation and the commissioners put into it as the NCAA loses more cases than the defense lawyers on 'Law & Order.'"

Discussed at length here:

[www.voy.com]

djk26
College sports as we know it may be over.

NLRB rules that Dartmouth basketball players can unionize

Yes, well...

if the players want to unionize and lose rights you can make it work..

But he is talking BBALL 2 million.

The difference between the worst team in pro sports is far less the 300 in college basketball.

Will the kids at Purdue that get 2 million be happy that the kids at Sw Shaneee state get 2 million? Could those low level teams even afford it?

Honestly I doubt that this will have a major affect on college sports but maybe that’s just wishful thinking.

Colleges used the term "student athletes," esp. those generating massive wealth for schools, so that the colleges could avoid calling them employees. The colleges' rationale was that the "student athlete" received a more or less free education in scholarship in exchange for their play for the school. This was a fiction that benefitted schools with large athletic programs, not the athletes. I don't have an answer, but labor deserves fair compensation.

Or maybe I do have an answer. Call them "student employees," which is what they are, and pay them a max 20 hours a week, which is where student employees are often capped. The would be subject to all the benefits and requirements of other school employees.

mike1960
Colleges used the term "student athletes," esp. those generating massive wealth for schools, so that the colleges could avoid calling them employees. The colleges' rationale was that the "student athlete" received a more or less free education in scholarship in exchange for their play for the school. This was a fiction that benefitted schools with large athletic programs, not the athletes. I don't have an answer, but labor deserves fair compensation.

Or maybe I do have an answer. Call them "student employees," which is what they are, and pay them a max 20 hours a week, which is where student employees are often capped. The would be subject to all the benefits and requirements of other school employees.

when they become an employee they also will find out a lot of things they take for granted go away.

when they become an employee they also will find out a lot of things they take for granted go away.

-- George Fitzhugh

Crime and pauperism have increased. Riots, trades unions, strikes for higher wages, discontent breaking out into revolution, are things of daily occurrence, and show that the poor see and feel quite as clearly as the philosophers, that their condition is far worse under the new than under the old order of things. Radicalism and Chartism in England owe their birth to the free and equal institutions of her commercial and manufacturing districts, and are little heard of in the quiet farming districts, where remnants of feudalism still exist in the relation of landlord and tenant, and in the laws of entail and primogeniture

cornell + 5.5 vs yale tomorrow for first place

Last I saw is +7.5. I don't get it. Seems like a lot. I expected +4.5 or +5.

I also don't understand why ESPNU has Duquesne vs. St. Bonaventure at 2 PM. This would seem to be a much better game to show. Bigger audience, actual relevance.

I don't understand a lot. Still wondering if I really graduated.

"This marks just the fifth time in Ivy League men’s basketball history that two 6-0 or better teams will square off. The most recent occurrence was on Feb. 15, 2003 when Penn (6-0) and Brown (7-0) clashed at The Palestra. Penn won that contest 73-66."

[ivyleague.com]

The fear, of course, is that we won't shoot this well the rest of the game. We have shown, however, that our defense is good enough to keep a game from getting away from us and give us a chance to withstand a cold spurt. Hopefully we won't have to worry about that at all today. This is a great first 12 minutes.

Getting sloppy with the big lead. Now up 9 with Yale ball. Make it 7. Back to 9 with Red timeout to take last shot of half. Missed last shot, then fouled Yale with 1 second. Up 8 at half.

Good half but we gotta play cleaner defense and do better on wolf. Yale complaining about every call and no call is driving me nuts already, especially when these announcers back them up.

chimpfood
Good half but we gotta play cleaner defense and do better on wolf. Yale complaining about every call and no call is driving me nuts already, especially when these announcers back them up.

I couldn't agree with this more, in all respects. I can't listen to this female broadcaster complain about Wolf's "touch fouls" as they call a clown foul on Gray with 1 second left. I thought the officiating in that first half was good, generally. We need to stop with the dumb fouls again.

Mr. Niss

chimpfood
Good half but we gotta play cleaner defense and do better on wolf. Yale complaining about every call and no call is driving me nuts already, especially when these announcers back them up.

I couldn't agree with this more, in all respects. I can't listen to this female broadcaster complain about Wolf's "touch fouls" as they call a clown foul on Gray with 1 second left. I thought the officiating in that first half was good, generally. We need to stop with the dumb fouls again.

overreacting a little imo. i think they are sharp as a pair and very complimentary of the way cornell is playing.

Unnecessary fouls.

mike1960
Unnecessary fouls.

ok now I'm getting mad at them. some unnecessary, some tickytack. yale has 0 fouls on them and the booth is complaining about no-calls?

Ill-advised Boothby 3.

Rebounds 32-14 Yale. Second chance points 15-0 as a result.

Al DeFlorio
Rebounds 32-14 Yale. Second chance points 15-0 as a result.

Yep. They're getting the loose balls too.

Beautiful pass. Cornell is having lots of good success against Yale with the back door cuts.

Down by 1, 3 min to go.

We'll take that phantom moving screen with 1:52 left.

4 seconds left. Look for the off ball screen to the cutter going to the basket.

Crap.

mike1960
Crap.

had to follow the last 5 minutes on gamecast. did Williams get a good look?

ugarte

mike1960
Crap.

had to follow the last 5 minutes on gamecast. did Williams get a good look?

great look, nearly had the win.

chimpfood

ugarte

mike1960
Crap.

had to follow the last 5 minutes on gamecast. did Williams get a good look?

great look, nearly had the win.

crap!

What’s the first tie-breaker if we win the home game vs Yale and end up tied?

chimpfood

ugarte

mike1960
Crap.

had to follow the last 5 minutes on gamecast. did Williams get a good look?

great look, nearly had the win.

Looked off balance and contested but still almost rattled in.

That one really hurts after having a lead almost the entire game. Free throws were 26 to 11 and we were still just 1 fewer foul away from OT or a win.

Very undisciplined team. Silly fouls by upperclassman are inexcusable. The better team did not win.

Agreed lots of reach ins. Gray makes brilliant plays balanced with "head scratchers".

Cop at Lynah
Very undisciplined team. Silly fouls by upperclassman are inexcusable. The better team did not win.

Right.

Cop at Lynah
Very undisciplined team. Silly fouls by upperclassman are inexcusable. The better team did not win.

We definitely looked like the better team until about 5 - 10 minutes left in the game. When we worked to get open drives to the basket, we were most successful. We got away from that down the stretch. It's one we should have had, but it's a tough place to play, and Yale is a good team.

It was a great game to watch in person, although surprisingly it wasn't close to being a sell-out. I was surprised to see the Cornell cheerleaders make the road trip. Do they do that for all Ivy road games?
You knew Yale was going to tighten things up in the second half. With 4 seconds left I almost had hope that we were going to win. The shot Mannon made over Yale's 7-footer to give us the lead in the final minute was a thing of beauty. Watching him in person for the first time made me appreciate just how great a player he is.
The rebounding, especially the second-chance points, killed us. At halftime, we had been outrebounded 20-10, including 10-1 on the offensive end. That didn't bode well for the second half.
Hopefully, we can get revenge on Yale on our court and avoid being upset in the meantime. The Yale fan sitting next to me was incredulous when I told him that Cornell had shot 6-for-31 from 3-point range against Dartmouth last weekend and nearly lost the game.

dbilmes
It was a great game to watch in person, although surprisingly it wasn't close to being a sell-out. I was surprised to see the Cornell cheerleaders make the road trip. Do they do that for all Ivy road games?
You knew Yale was going to tighten things up in the second half. With 4 seconds left I almost had hope that we were going to win. The shot Mannon made over Yale's 7-footer to give us the lead in the final minute was a thing of beauty. Watching him in person for the first time made me appreciate just how great a player he is.
The rebounding, especially the second-chance points, killed us. At halftime, we had been outrebounded 20-10, including 10-1 on the offensive end. That didn't bode well for the second half.
Hopefully, we can get revenge on Yale on our court and avoid being upset in the meantime. The Yale fan sitting next to me was incredulous when I told him that Cornell had shot 6-for-31 from 3-point range against Dartmouth last weekend and nearly lost the game.

Manon was fouled on that last shot too it looks like:

Chris '03


Manon was fouled on that last shot too it looks like:

IMG-1373.jpg

Great pic!!

I don’t really agree with the posters claiming the better team lost. Cornell shot lights out, especially when it built its big lead—that just isn’t sustainable. I don’t think Cornell is vastly worse than Yale or anything, but given Yale’s size and rebounding advantage and the big shooting percentage disparity, I think Cornell was fortunate to end up with a chance to win down the stretch.

BearLover
I don’t really agree with the posters claiming the better team lost. Cornell shot lights out, especially when it built its big lead—that just isn’t sustainable. I don’t think Cornell is vastly worse than Yale or anything, but given Yale’s size and rebounding advantage and the big shooting percentage disparity, I think Cornell was fortunate to end up with a chance to win down the stretch.

My take is these teams are close, but Yale's a tough match-up in that their strength (interior game) is Cornell's weakness. Yale had so many offensive rebounds (17!) that if they missed a shot, it was 50/50 they would get it back. That's insane.

Bottom line, Cornell, Yale and Princeton are still all on serve for the league regular season title and all three are virtual locks for the ILT. You'd think the #1 seed would be huge, since you would avoid the other two contenders in the semis, but there is a decent chance the top seed buys you a road game with Columbia since they are the designated host. Gotta win the home games this weekend as Yale has the Penn/Princeton road trip.

I watched the Cornell vs, Yale ESPN highlights as it was a great game with a big crowd. The home and home series returns to Ithaca on Friday, February 23rd. Go Big Red!!!

For your consideration yet another Bracketology, but this one including both the NIT and the CBI. The CBI, for those of you with lives, is a 16 team post-season tournament where all the games are played at one location in Florida over the course of a week. This has Princeton in the NIT -- as a #2 seed -- and the good guys as the #6 in the CBI.

If I’m not mistaken, a school has to actually PAY to play in the CBI. My guess is Cornell would pass and blame having to study etc

CU2007
If I’m not mistaken, a school has to actually PAY to play in the CBI. My guess is Cornell would pass and blame having to study etc

we played in the CIT in 2019

ugarte

CU2007
If I’m not mistaken, a school has to actually PAY to play in the CBI. My guess is Cornell would pass and blame having to study etc

we played in the CIT in 2019

Ahh, the late, unlamented CIT. Though, yes, I watched the sad loss to Robert Morris.

Cornell/Columbia/Yale sweep this weekend. 5 games left

Cornell would be 8-1

Cornell would lock in a playoff birth at about 99%

Brown cant catch them if that happens
Penn cant catch them if that happens
Harvard they win the H2H so only some crazy multi way tie could knock them out.
Dart cant catch them

Stands look a little empty.

Yale had a lot of success driving across the paint. We need to slow that down.

mike1960
Stands look a little empty.

Yale had a lot of success driving across the paint. We need to slow that down.

Slow start for the guys and an odd interlude with all of the starters on the bench where we didn't look that great. That said, we battled back to take the lead and have mostly held it. As I type there are 20 seconds left in the half and the Red are up 35-32 with the ball.

Harvard threw a zone at us. I'd like to see us do that every now and then to see how well it works. We get beat a lot with the man-to-man defense. Yale and now Harvard set up ball screens until they get a match-up they like, and then drive to the hoop.

ugarte

mike1960
Stands look a little empty.

Yale had a lot of success driving across the paint. We need to slow that down.

Slow start for the guys and an odd interlude with all of the starters on the bench where we didn't look that great. That said, we battled back to take the lead and have mostly held it. As I type there are 20 seconds left in the half and the Red are up 35-32 with the ball.

And we go to the half up 3, 37-34.

Up 3 at half. Could have been more but many turnovers and out of control possessions.

Al DeFlorio
Up 3 at half. Could have been more but many turnovers and out of control possessions.

Yeah. 10 turnovers in the first half is crazy. On the other hand, not that many fouls! According to the game tracker, Manon only has one. It was a real dumb one though.

So careless with the basketball.

EXCLAMATION POINT

Block on one end and a dunk on the other.

Cooper Noard had decided to lock down on Harvard's #2. Doing an excellent job with the man-to-man D.

Nice win.

Yale, Princeton win

Great win. We’ve done a good job of shutting down other teams’ main weapons (aside from one half of Danny wolf).

Al DeFlorio
Yale, Princeton win

As did Columbia, to stay ahead of Harvard in the Race for Fourth.

What is the tiebreaker if we beat Yale at home and finish with the same record?

CU2007
What is the tiebreaker if we beat Yale at home and finish with the same record?

[ivyleague.com]

The tie-breaker is the NCAA's NET ranking a combination of computer metrics (NET, KenPom, one more at least). That is a huge advantage for Yale right now and even better for Princeton if we all hold serve. Going into last night.

1. Yale 7-0 (NET 82, KenPom 86, Torvik 77)
2. Cornell 6-1 (NET 83, KenPom 101, Torvik 101)
3. Princeton 5-2 (NET 52, KenPom 66, Torvik 79)

*Thanks nyc94, I really thought it was a combo and not just NET. That gives us a chance in a two way tie with Yale, but no chance in a three way tie involving Princeton.

Big games tonight with Yale at Princeton and Harvard at Columbia in a game that could go a long way to determine the 4seeed.

chimpfood
Great win. We’ve done a good job of shutting down other teams’ main weapons (aside from one half of Danny wolf).

I've ragged on this team's D, but they have really stepped it up in league play. It was the D that won last night's game and they completely took Mack out his game, which very few teams have done.

Dartmouth built a lead that i think paddled at 11 but a 9-0 run and a hot finish has Cornell up 50-47 at the half.

ugarte
Dartmouth built a lead that i think paddled at 11 but a 9-0 run and a hot finish has Cornell up 50-47 at the half.

Down 29-42 with 4 minutes left in half. Dartmouth couldn't miss a three when building their lead.

Al DeFlorio

ugarte
Dartmouth built a lead that i think paddled at 11 but a 9-0 run and a hot finish has Cornell up 50-47 at the half.

Down 29-42 with 4 minutes left in half. Dartmouth couldn't miss a three when building their lead.

Second half was comfortable the whole way and Cornell won by 9.

Princeton over Yale by 8 at the hslf.

Princeton beats Yale 73-62.

Cornell's ILT Scenarios

Win out -- #1 seed, obviously
4-1 with loss v. Yale -- #2 seed, unless Yale drops two of their last four (not likely). That also means trying to beat Princeton for a third time this season in the 2/3 game.
4-1 with loss at Princeton -- Likely the 2/3 game, unless Yale and Princeton both lose. That's because the tie-breaker would be computer rankings, which do not favor us.
4-1 with loss to someone else -- #1 seed. In that scenario Princeton would have at least three losses and we'd win the tie-breaker over Yale because of the sweep of the Tigers.
2 losses -- 2/3 game barring something really unlikely.
3 losses -- Still the 3 seed.
4 losses (?!?) -- Still the 3 seed, unless Columbia wins out, in which case #4.

Cornell probably makes the tournament if they lose out, but I don't want to think about that possibility.

Great article on Cornell, Yale, and Princeton
[www.midmajormadness.com]

Ken711
Princeton beats Yale 73-62.

Princeton held Danny Wolf scoreless with one offensive rebound. Be good if we learn how.

seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

mike1960

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

I see the normal espn+.

upprdeck

mike1960

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

I see the normal espn+.

I just checked: It's on ESPN and ESPN+

The lacrosse game, on the other hand. . .

mike1960

upprdeck

mike1960

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

I see the normal espn+.

I just checked: It's on ESPN and ESPN+

The lacrosse game, on the other hand. . .

Not sure about lacrosse game, but IIRC if one goes to the Lacrosse Team's webpage, chooses Schedule, and looks up the Denver game, there's a link to video there. Not sure what kind of video or if it's for pay. YMMV.

Swampy

mike1960

upprdeck

mike1960

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

I see the normal espn+.

I just checked: It's on ESPN and ESPN+

The lacrosse game, on the other hand. . .

Not sure about lacrosse game, but IIRC if one goes to the Lacrosse Team's webpage, chooses Schedule, and looks up the Denver game, there's a link to video there. Not sure what kind of video or if it's for pay. YMMV.

It's 8 or 9 bucks to watch the lacrosse game on the Colorado network. I will probably do it.

mike1960

Swampy

mike1960

upprdeck

mike1960

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

I see the normal espn+.

I just checked: It's on ESPN and ESPN+

The lacrosse game, on the other hand. . .

Not sure about lacrosse game, but IIRC if one goes to the Lacrosse Team's webpage, chooses Schedule, and looks up the Denver game, there's a link to video there. Not sure what kind of video or if it's for pay. YMMV.

It's 8 or 9 bucks to watch the lacrosse game on the Colorado network. I will probably do it.

Hope it's easy to cancel.

Al DeFlorio

mike1960

Swampy

mike1960

upprdeck

mike1960

Mr. Niss
seems nuts to me that on Friday at 7 the U will have Toledo vs Bowling Green and not Cornell-Yale, but who am I other than a Big Red homer (but not from Homer).

Looks like it's free on the regular ESPN feed.

[www.espn.com]

I see the normal espn+.

by law it has to be now.. whether that is true who knows.

I just checked: It's on ESPN and ESPN+

The lacrosse game, on the other hand. . .

Not sure about lacrosse game, but IIRC if one goes to the Lacrosse Team's webpage, chooses Schedule, and looks up the Denver game, there's a link to video there. Not sure what kind of video or if it's for pay. YMMV.

It's 8 or 9 bucks to watch the lacrosse game on the Colorado network. I will probably do it.

Hope it's easy to cancel.

Just read/skimmed a very loong ESPN article about college coaches coming and going. Earl and Cornell not mentioned. Mitch Henderson and James Jones both noted as possibly moving on. Slightly insulted, but pleased if true.

arugula
Just read/skimmed a very loong ESPN article about college coaches coming and going. Earl and Cornell not mentioned. Mitch Henderson and James Jones both noted as possibly moving on. Slightly insulted, but pleased if true.

Those two guys just have a longer track record of success. This is Earl's first really successful team.

arugula
Just read/skimmed a very loong ESPN article about college coaches coming and going. Earl and Cornell not mentioned. Mitch Henderson and James Jones both noted as possibly moving on. Slightly insulted, but pleased if true.

Jones is 60, and has been the coach at Yale since 1999. Given his consistent success, it's safe to assume he's had opportunities to move on. He trails only Pete Carril in Ivy League coaching victories and other significant categories. I'm guessing at this point he's content to finish his career out at Yale, which I'm sure is paying him a competitive salary. But if some big-time program once again dangles a huge contract to tempt him, who knows?

huge leap in recruiting from the IVY to the bigger conferences. You can succeed and have a nice career in the IVY as well.

dbilmes

arugula
Just read/skimmed a very loong ESPN article about college coaches coming and going. Earl and Cornell not mentioned. Mitch Henderson and James Jones both noted as possibly moving on. Slightly insulted, but pleased if true.

Jones is 60, and has been the coach at Yale since 1999. Given his consistent success, it's safe to assume he's had opportunities to move on. He trails only Pete Carril in Ivy League coaching victories and other significant categories. I'm guessing at this point he's content to finish his career out at Yale, which I'm sure is paying him a competitive salary. But if some big-time program once again dangles a huge contract to tempt him, who knows?

If Quinnipiac decides they want to pour money into hoops he probably doesn't even have to move.

cornell -2 vs yale tomorrow.

ugarte

dbilmes

arugula
Just read/skimmed a very loong ESPN article about college coaches coming and going. Earl and Cornell not mentioned. Mitch Henderson and James Jones both noted as possibly moving on. Slightly insulted, but pleased if true.

Jones is 60, and has been the coach at Yale since 1999. Given his consistent success, it's safe to assume he's had opportunities to move on. He trails only Pete Carril in Ivy League coaching victories and other significant categories. I'm guessing at this point he's content to finish his career out at Yale, which I'm sure is paying him a competitive salary. But if some big-time program once again dangles a huge contract to tempt him, who knows?

If Quinnipiac decides they want to pour money into hoops he probably doesn't even have to move.

Quinnipiac just gave their men's basketball coach a contract extension, so that's unlikely in the near future.

Big revenge game for the team to show their character, let’s stay undefeated at home and take the Ivy lead again.

So far, so good.

Red up 10 at half.

shot badly and still up 10? I'll take it. Good rebounding job, defense I thought gave up too many easy hoops yet still was good overall. LGR.

Just letting them hang around. And now we'll keep getting called for fouls too ...

Am I crazy or has the officiating been really, really favoring Yale

The ball is just not going in the hole.

What a disaster of a second half.

Make some shots. Play good defense.

Mr. Niss
What a disaster of a second half.

15 points in 16 minutes.

Coach cleared in out under the basket and looked for a drive. Interesting.

Good call. You can't push off like that.