Cornell lacrosse 2024

Quint has us #6.

[laxallstars.com]

6) Cornell
“Hard Hat 21” is now in the catbird seat to host the Ivy League tournament after defeating Yale on Saturday following last week’s win at Princeton.

The penalty kill unit and CJ Kirst won the day in the high scoring affair with Yale. Cornell’s offense is multi-pronged and dynamic. Just love watching this group play. The defense is not good, ranking #62 in the nation, with short sticks who require constant baby sitting.

Let’s not kid ourselves, Ivy defenses are sold separately in 2024 making these league games must see television.

Cornell and Penn meet on Franklin Field this weekend.

mike1960

“Hard Hat 21” is now in the catbird seat to host the Ivy League tournament after defeating Yale on Saturday following last week’s win at Princeton.

“Sitting in the catbird seat,” haven’t heard that since Red Barber retired!

Yes! Memories of his sessions with the late Bob Edward's on NPR's Morning Edition.

Gonna be a slop mess tonight.

upprdeck
Gonna be a slop mess tonight.

probably the type of game we want against a better team used to a dome.

chimpfood

upprdeck
Gonna be a slop mess tonight.

probably the type of game we want against a better team used to a dome.

I hope you are right, but we had lots of trouble with our passing in the rain at The Pennsylvania State University.

We bring such passion, energy, and skill to our wing game on the faceoffs and on our riding. Both have paid off fantastically.

Question: Why don't we bring that same mentality to the defense all four quarters? Make that our calling card.

Ticketing question

My family and I are visiting Cornell this Saturday. I see there is a game against Brown at 12:00 p.m. If there's any chance I can convince them to the game for awhile, I would love to do that. I know these games don't sell out, and it's spring break, so I'm not expecting big crowds. Do they sell tickets at the gate, or do I have to buy them in advance?

The cornellbigred.com ticketing wesbite has links for tickets for men's hockey, men's basketball, men's soccer and wrestling--none of which (sadly for hockey) are in season.

bigredtix.com (I assume this site is legit?) says tickets are $7.00 for kids 12 and under and $12.00 for adults--anyone know if the prices are the same at the gate?

Thanks everyone.

I went to the SU game with my brother and sister (SU fans, I tolerate them LOL)
and we had no issues getting tickets walking up. I wouldnt expect the crowd to be larger for Brown (less rain but still chilly, and I assume no Brown fans while SU had some diehards in attendance)

bathrooms and a concession were open.
I thought the tickets were still $10, but it does look like they have gone up to $12
still a deal compared to tickets at the Dome (18+ surcharges and you need to pay for parking and walk further)

Cornell95
I went to the SU game with my brother and sister (SU fans, I tolerate them LOL)
and we had no issues getting tickets walking up. I wouldnt expect the crowd to be larger for Brown (less rain but still chilly, and I assume no Brown fans while SU had some diehards in attendance)

bathrooms and a concession were open.
I thought the tickets were still $10, but it does look like they have gone up to $12
still a deal compared to tickets at the Dome (18+ surcharges and you need to pay for parking and walk further)

I think I asked this before, but when I went to Cornell a hundred years ago, a violin player would play the national anthem. I loved that. I don't suppose that happens anymore?

For the SU game the Canadian and United States anthems were played over the PA system
guessing we might see the pep band in the stands doing both when the weather is better and students arent on break

Cornell95
For the SU game the Canadian and United States anthems were played over the PA system
guessing we might see the pep band in the stands doing both when the weather is better and students arent on break

Thanks!

Cornell95
I went to the SU game with my brother and sister (SU fans, I tolerate them LOL)
and we had no issues getting tickets walking up. I wouldnt expect the crowd to be larger for Brown (less rain but still chilly, and I assume no Brown fans while SU had some diehards in attendance)

bathrooms and a concession were open.
I thought the tickets were still $10, but it does look like they have gone up to $12
still a deal compared to tickets at the Dome (18+ surcharges and you need to pay for parking and walk further)

Thank you for the information.

One thing we learned from the Syracuse game is that we are effective when we open up the field and create more space. We tend to pass the ball to get a closer shot and squeeze the defense down, but that also clogs the middle, especially with the crease attack in there. When we spread things out by just two or three steps, the SU defense had to make longer slides and were in some difficulty. We spread things out only a couple of times, but I hope they see that and try it more often in future games.

Glad you're going to the game. Thank you for making our collective day if in any way you had thoughts Schoellkopf Field might sell out (though you said otherwise). That happens for graduation (tickets are $70,000 times four years) and comes close for the fireworks the night before football Homecoming in September.

Yes, BigRedTix.com is the legit link to Cornell tickets. It's $7 for 12 and under, and and over, groups of 10 or more, leaving teens and adults to pay $12. I believe that's the same price for at the gate. If it's not, you're paying more gasoline that you do for the tickets, in most cases. A really excellent lacrosse game against, say, a Princeton on a warm Saturday afternoon might draw 4,000-5,000. Syracuse these days is a night game and in the rain and cold Tuesday drew just under a thousand. Against a Duke or a Virginia ... wait, the Secession State schools generally don't come north to Schoellkopf. We have wisely picked up Big10 type opponents who have pretty good.

Happy to see Notre Dame beat Duke today 14-12. Wouldn't want to get them after a tough loss.

ND tickets here: [www.ticketsignup.io]

mike1960
Happy to see Notre Dame beat Duke today 14-12. Wouldn't want to get them after a tough loss.

I'd enjoy seeing Duke lose in cornhole.

Cornell loses by 1 goal to the #1 team and drops a position in the polls to 9th. 10th in RPI. Media poll is in, Quint Kessenich's personal poll is in (Cornell 10), USILA coaches poll strolls in late Monday / Tuesday. All have Yale rated above Cornell by 1-2 positions, FWIW. Update: USILA poll, in Tuesday, is the most favorable to Cornell's status: ranked 8th, ahead of 9 Yale, 13 Penn, 17 Princeton and 19 Harvard.

Men's Division I Media Poll
Rank	 Team	             Points      Prev
1        Notre Dame (8 - 1)	500(25)  1
2	 Duke (11 - 3)	        465	 4 
3	 Johns Hopkins (9 - 3)	442	 3
4	 Virginia (10 - 2)	420	 2 
5	 Maryland (8 - 3)	389	 5
6	 Syracuse (10 - 4)	354	 7 
7	 Denver (9 - 2)	        349	10 
8	 Yale (9 - 2)	        313	 9 
9	 Cornell (7 - 4)	300	 8 
10	 Penn State (8 - 3)	284	11 
11	 Georgetown (8 - 3)	269	 6 
12	 Army (9 - 2)	        230	12
13	 Penn (8 - 4)	        214	14 
14	 Towson (9 - 3)	        143	18 
15	 Richmond (8 - 4)	134	19 
16	 Saint Joseph's (8 - 3)	108	20 
17	 Princeton (7 - 4)	94	13 
18	 Harvard (7 - 4)	82	16 
19	 Delaware (7 - 3)	45	23 
20	 Boston U (7 - 5)	30	15 
Receiving Votes: Colgate, Michigan, Ohio State, Navy, Villanova, Sacred Heart, UAlbany, Loyola, Rutgers, Jacksonville, Air Force, Utah

Quint Kessenich’s Top 20 [laxallstars.com]
1. ND
2. Duke
3. Hopkins
4. Virginia
5. Maryland
6. Penn State
7. Syracuse was 10
8. Yale was 6
9. Denver
10. Cornell was 8
11. Georgetown
12. Penn unchanged
13. Richmond
14. Army
15. Delaware
16. Towson
17. Princeton was 13
18. Saint Joseph's
19. Ohio State
20. Harvard

RPI [www.ncaa.com]
1. ND (first)
8. Yale
10. Cornell
12. Penn
17. Harvard
19. Princeton
37. Brown
55. Dartmouth
76. Hampton (dead last)

[edit add 4/16]

USILA WEEK 11 
Team (First-Place Votes) Rank	Record	Points
Notre Dame (21)	1	8-1   	420
Duke	        2	11-3	394
Johns Hopkins	3	9-3	354
Virginia	4	10-2	352
Maryland	5	8-3	333
Denver		6	9-2	303
Syracuse	7	10-4	289
Cornell		8	7-4	260 was 10
Yale		9	9-2	258
Penn State	10	8-3	233
Georgetown	11	8-3	218
Army		12	9-2	196
Penn		13	8-4	178
Richmond	14	8-4	133
St. Josephs	15	8-3	112
Towson		16	9-3	106
Princeton	17	7-4	82
Delaware	18	7-3	52
Harvard	        19	7-4	46
Air Force	20	7-4	20
Also receiving votes: Michigan (14), Boston U. (11), Ohio State (9), Utah (9), Colgate (8), Rutgers (7), Villanova (4), Loyola Maryland (2), Sacred Heart (2), High Point (1), Navy (1), Providence (1), Albany (1), and North Carolina (1).

billhoward
Cornell loses by 1 goal to the #1 team and drops a position in the polls to 9th. 10th in RPI. Media poll is in, Quint Kessenich's personal poll is in (Cornell 10), USILA coaches poll strolls in late Monday / Tuesday. All have Yale rated above Cornell by 1-2 positions, FWIW.

Men's Division I Media Poll
Rank	 Team	             Points      Prev
1        Notre Dame (8 - 1)	500(25)  1
2	 Duke (11 - 3)	        465	 4 
3	 Johns Hopkins (9 - 3)	442	 3
4	 Virginia (10 - 2)	420	 2 
5	 Maryland (8 - 3)	389	 5
6	 Syracuse (10 - 4)	354	 7 
7	 Denver (9 - 2)	        349	10 
8	 Yale (9 - 2)	        313	 9 
9	 Cornell (7 - 4)	300	 8 
10	 Penn State (8 - 3)	284	11 
11	 Georgetown (8 - 3)	269	 6 
12	 Army (9 - 2)	        230	12
13	 Penn (8 - 4)	        214	14 
14	 Towson (9 - 3)	        143	18 
15	 Richmond (8 - 4)	134	19 
16	 Saint Joseph's (8 - 3)	108	20 
17	 Princeton (7 - 4)	94	13 
18	 Harvard (7 - 4)	82	16 
19	 Delaware (7 - 3)	45	23 
20	 Boston U (7 - 5)	30	15 
Receiving Votes: Colgate, Michigan, Ohio State, Navy, Villanova, Sacred Heart, UAlbany, Loyola, Rutgers, Jacksonville, Air Force, Utah

Quint Kessenich’s Top 20 [laxallstars.com]
1. ND
2. Duke
3. Hopkins
4. Virginia
5. Maryland
6. Penn State
7. Syracuse was 10
8. Yale was 6
9. Denver
10. Cornell was 8
11. Georgetown
12. Penn unchanged
13. Richmond
14. Army
15. Delaware
16. Towson
17. Princeton was 13
18. Saint Joseph's
19. Ohio State
20. Harvard

RPI [www.ncaa.com]
1. ND (first)
8. Yale
10. Cornell
12. Penn
17. Harvard
19. Princeton
37. Brown
55. Dartmouth
76. Hampton (dead last)

Amazing we lose THAT game and we drop in the rankings. Did anyone even watch or they saw an L and reflexively voted.

Reality is 10 is about right.

we beat SU/Yale/Prin
we lost ND/Den/PSU/Penn

Harvard left to play as a top 20 right now

If we had beaten Penn we would probably be 6-8 right now

My eyes glaze over when drilling down into what goes into RPI numbers. Is there a more complex RPI – that is, more accurate, that is better favors Cornell and Ivy teams – such as: Disparity in games already played before first weekend of March, relative rank of teams when the game was played vs. current or end-of-season rank, trend over the season, projected rank of the team in the post-season (okay, a reach). All in hopes of the most equitable selection of post-season teams.

[updating and correcting:] We lost 17-16 to Denver Feb, 4. That was Denver's fourth game. On the road. We beat Ohio state March 2, their sixth game, our fourth.

Our losses were by 1, 11 vs. PSU, 1 in OT, and now 1. Every win except the Princeton and Syracuse games were by >1.

Our lacrosse losses seem to happen more often in the early, colder part of the season. Cornell has gone from having indoor space in Bacon [batting] Cage adjecent to Hoy Field to artificial turf at Schoellkopf circa 1970-71 so teams could practice on a field that wasn't mud, to the half-field area in Bartels Hall since around 1990, to the pending indoor Meinig Field House (full field, 120 yards long) in 2026. That's going to help. Maybe we'll be at less of a disadvantage to top teams in early season play.

billhoward

We lost 17-16 to Denver Feb, 4. That was Denver's fourth game, our first. Plus it was on the road. We beat Ohio state March 2, their sixth game, our fourth. By the time we lost 12-11 hosting Penn State, it was our seventh game, their ninth, not much difference, and we almost made up the entire 9-4 deficit after three

There are so many facts wrong in this paragraph, I don’t know where to start. Denver wasn’t our first game — we opened the season vs Lehigh. We got creamed by Penn State 20-9 in State College in our 5th game, and it was 18-7 after 3. We haven’t lost a game in Ithaca (yet).

I like the Massey ratings, which take into account scores, game location, and recency. The precise formula is not disclosed, but the results comport pretty well with eyeball opinion (given the high uncertainties in that). Ratings are updated daily. Cornell is currently #11.

[masseyratings.com]

Cornell is #10 in RPI and also in the laxmath power rating (based on goal differential)

[www.laxmath.com]

CU77
I like the Massey ratings, which take into account scores, game location, and recency. The precise formula is not disclosed, but the results comport pretty well with eyeball opinion (given the high uncertainties in that). Ratings are updated daily. Cornell is currently #11.

[masseyratings.com]

Cornell is #10 in RPI and also in the laxmath power rating (based on goal differential)

[www.laxmath.com]

Admittedly, I don't understand what I am looking at in the Massey ratings, but I have a hard time respecting a rating that leaves Princeton unchanged at #12 after losing to Brown.

Just want to pay respects to Coach Buczek on playing 2 offensive midfields and giving fairly equal time. The one problem I had with Coach Tambroni was the way he would double shift his first midfield.

rss77
Just want to pay respects to Coach Buczek on playing 2 offensive midfields and giving fairly equal time. The one problem I had with Coach Tambroni was the way he would double shift his first midfield.

That definitely pays off down the stretch.

Buczek likely remembers when DeLuca kept him on the bench his entire freshman year.

CU77
Buczek likely remembers when DeLuca kept him on the bench his entire freshman year.

I remember that, too.

Al DeFlorio

CU77
Buczek likely remembers when DeLuca kept him on the bench his entire freshman year.

I remember that, too.

Still a mystery considering Buczek quickly showed his talent once he got on the field.

If I remember correctly, he didn’t even suit up as a freshman. Is that right?

jjanow99
If I remember correctly, he didn’t even suit up as a freshman. Is that right?

1 goal, 2 shots, 2 SOG; appeared in 5 games, started none

CB scored that 1 goal late against Yale in the opening round of the ILT, when Cornell was way behind. I still remember thinking "why hasn't this guy been getting time???"

Huge game tomorrow. I personally think a W tomorrow solidifies our at-large profile (no 'bad' losses) so that even with an L in the ILT Semis we might sneak in. This of course assumes we take care of business @Dartmouth.

Cornell polls after the 4/20 Harvard game, one week left in the season. 8 or 9 (USILA) in polls, +1 places from last week. USILA coaches had Cornell at #7 in the pre-season.

    Current rankings 
8   Media poll/Inside Lacrosse
9   USILA coaches 
8   Kessinich / LaxAllStars 
8   RPI 

Media / Inside Lacrosse Poll 
#  Team	                Pts/1st Prev
1  Notre Dame (9 - 1)	500(25) 1
2  Duke (11 - 3)	461	2
3  Johns Hopkins(10-3)	446	3
4  Syracuse (11 - 4)	428	6 
5  Virginia (10 - 3)	383	4 
6  Denver (10 - 2)	347	7 
7  Maryland (8 - 4)	333	5 
8  Cornell (8 - 4)	323	9 
9  Yale (11 - 2)	318	8 
10 Penn State (9 - 3)	306	10
11 Georgetown (9 - 3)	266	11
12 Army (10 - 2)	224	12
13 Princeton (8 - 4)	167	17 
14 Richmond (9 - 4)	153	15 
15 Towson (10 - 3)	151	14 
16 St Joseph's (9 - 3)	131	16
17 Penn (8 - 5)	        126	13 
18 Delaware (8 - 3)	71	19 
19 Michigan (7 - 6)	36	22 
20 Colgate (8 - 5)	21	21 
Receiving Votes: Harvard, Loyola, Jacksonville, Sacred Heart, UAlbany, Villanova, Utah

[corrected per Semsox note]
DIVISION I - WEEK 12 (APRIL 22)
Team (1sts)      Plc-Place Votes) Rank Record Points
Notre Dame (18)  1 9-1  379
Duke (1)         2 11-3 361
Johns Hopkins    3 10-3 337
Syracuse         4 11-4 319
Denver           5 10-2 299
Virginia         6 10-3 285
Maryland         7 8-3  254
Yale             8 11-2 241
Cornell          9 8-4  233
Penn State      10 9-3  218
Georgetown      11 9-3  198
Army            12 10-2 172
St. Joseph's    13 9-3  121
Richmond        14 9-4  119
Towson          15 10-3 106
Princeton       16 8-4  102
Penn            17 8-5  81
Delaware        18 8-3  52
Michigan        19 7-6  25
Loyola          20 7-6  20
Also receiving votes: Harvard (15), Villanova (14), Colgate (10), Utah (10), Lehigh (6), Navy (3), Air Force (2), High Point (2), Jacksonville (2), Sacred Heart (2), Boston (1), and Ohio State (1).


Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2024 11:36AM by billhoward.

How does anyone put Maryland above Hopkins?

Big discrepancy in the poll positions of Syracuse and The Pennsylvania State.

Those are the preseason USILA rankings, which unfortunately seems what the Inside Lacrosse rankings page defaults to. Actual USILA rankings as of 4/22:

2024 DIVISION I - WEEK 12 (APRIL 22)
Team (First-Place Votes) Rank Record Points
Notre Dame (18) 1 9-1 379
Duke (1) 2 11-3 361
Johns Hopkins 3 10-3 337
Syracuse 4 11-4 319
Denver 5 10-2 299
Virginia 6 10-3 285
Maryland 7 8-3 254
Yale 8 11-2 241
Cornell 9 8-4 233
Penn State 10 9-3 218
Georgetown 11 9-3 198
Army 12 10-2 172
St. Joseph's 13 9-3 121
Richmond 14 9-4 119
Towson 15 10-3 106
Princeton 16 8-4 102
Penn 17 8-5 81
Delaware 18 8-3 52
Michigan 19 7-6 25
Loyola 20 7-6 20

Also receiving votes: Harvard (15), Villanova (14), Colgate (10), Utah (10), Lehigh (6), Navy (3), Air Force (2), High Point (2), Jacksonville (2), Sacred Heart (2), Boston (1), and Ohio State (1).

Bracketology on IL has us as number 8-playing Penn State (no!), if we win playing Notre Dame. Oh boy…

arugula
Bracketology on IL has us as number 8-playing Penn State (no!), if we win playing Notre Dame. Oh boy…

And then potentially Syracuse and Denver in the rematch tour.

arugula
Bracketology on IL has us as number 8-playing Penn State (no!), if we win playing Notre Dame. Oh boy…

Bring 'em on. Bring 'em ALL on!

mike1960

arugula
Bracketology on IL has us as number 8-playing Penn State (no!), if we win playing Notre Dame. Oh boy…

Bring 'em on. Bring 'em ALL on!

a) Thank you to everyone who avoided saying, "If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best."

b) We lucked out en route to the 2022 final because we did not have to play #1 Maryland until the title game and en route we faced unranked (i.e. not a top-8 seed) Ohio State, then unranked Delaware (thank you for taking down #2 Georgetown), then #6 Rutgers in the semifinals, and only then Maryland, which had disposed of tournament opponents 21-5, 18-9, 13-8 (Princeton) and only then did we find outselves losing by 2 to the Terps. So the pendulum swings.

Chris '03

arugula
Bracketology on IL has us as number 8-playing Penn State (no!), if we win playing Notre Dame. Oh boy…

And then potentially Syracuse and Denver in the rematch tour.

Speaks to strength of schedule which will help in myriad ways.

Cornell hockey won the ECAC and qualified for the NCAAs this season in large part because they didn’t have to beat anybody especially good on their way to the title.

BearLover
Cornell hockey won the ECAC and qualified for the NCAAs this season in large part because they didn’t have to beat anybody especially good on their way to the title.

So what. We'd have had a better shot at winning the whole thing if we'd learned from (and beat).much better teams.

You want a lottery ticket.

I'd rather have a much stronger chance of winning the rhing5

But hockey did beat several good teams-BU, ASU, drew UMASS. Not the best schedule but not terribly weak.

abmarks

BearLover
Cornell hockey won the ECAC and qualified for the NCAAs this season in large part because they didn’t have to beat anybody especially good on their way to the title.

So what. We'd have had a better shot at winning the whole thing if we'd learned from (and beat).much better teams.

You want a lottery ticket.

I'd rather have a much stronger chance of winning the rhing5

Huh? Cornell outplayed #5 Maine in the first round of the NCAAs and then evenly played #3 Denver, who ultimately won the national championship, in the quarterfinals. Where’s the evidence Cornell was hurt by its easy schedule? If Cornell lost to Quinnipiac in the ECAC tournament, there would have been no NCAA tournament, the season would have been over. Cornell was inches away from the Frozen Four in large part because we dodged having to play anyone good on its way to the league championship.

This season we saw a clear benefit of an easy ECAC, and we saw none of the (hypothetical) downsides.

Back to lacrosse—I think it is obviously better to avoid having to play good teams, if possible, particularly in one-and-done games which end your season.

BearLover

abmarks

BearLover
Cornell hockey won the ECAC and qualified for the NCAAs this season in large part because they didn’t have to beat anybody especially good on their way to the title.

So what. We'd have had a better shot at winning the whole thing if we'd learned from (and beat).much better teams.

You want a lottery ticket.

I'd rather have a much stronger chance of winning the rhing5

Huh? Cornell outplayed #5 Maine in the first round of the NCAAs and then evenly played #3 Denver, who ultimately won the national championship, in the quarterfinals. Where’s the evidence Cornell was hurt by its easy schedule? If Cornell lost to Quinnipiac in the ECAC tournament, there would have been no NCAA tournament, the season would have been over. Cornell was inches away from the Frozen Four in large part because we dodged having to play anyone good on its way to the league championship.

This season we saw a clear benefit of an easy ECAC, and we saw none of the (hypothetical) downsides.

Back to lacrosse—I think it is obviously better to avoid having to play good teams, if possible, particularly in one-and-done games which end your season.

It really depends on various stochastic events. Because of our tough schedule in lacrosse we have a relatively high RPI & SOS. Had RG30 not made a freshman mistake, we had a good chance of beating #1 ND, which would have ensured a place in the NC tourney. As is, unless we lose to a much lower-ranked Ivy in the first round of the ILT, which would lower our RPI substantially, because of our schedule and record we have a good chance of making the NC tourney even if we don't win the ILT. And having played some really tough competition, hopefully we'll be better prepared for the NC tourney, which will likely be the most evenly matched in recent memory.

Swampy

BearLover

abmarks

BearLover
Cornell hockey won the ECAC and qualified for the NCAAs this season in large part because they didn’t have to beat anybody especially good on their way to the title.

So what. We'd have had a better shot at winning the whole thing if we'd learned from (and beat).much better teams.

You want a lottery ticket.

I'd rather have a much stronger chance of winning the rhing5

Huh? Cornell outplayed #5 Maine in the first round of the NCAAs and then evenly played #3 Denver, who ultimately won the national championship, in the quarterfinals. Where’s the evidence Cornell was hurt by its easy schedule? If Cornell lost to Quinnipiac in the ECAC tournament, there would have been no NCAA tournament, the season would have been over. Cornell was inches away from the Frozen Four in large part because we dodged having to play anyone good on its way to the league championship.

This season we saw a clear benefit of an easy ECAC, and we saw none of the (hypothetical) downsides.

Back to lacrosse—I think it is obviously better to avoid having to play good teams, if possible, particularly in one-and-done games which end your season.

It really depends on various stochastic events. Because of our tough schedule in lacrosse we have a relatively high RPI & SOS. Had RG30 not made a freshman mistake, we had a good chance of beating #1 ND, which would have ensured a place in the NC tourney. As is, unless we lose to a much lower-ranked Ivy in the first round of the ILT, which would lower our RPI substantially, because of our schedule and record we have a good chance of making the NC tourney even if we don't win the ILT. And having played some really tough competition, hopefully we'll be better prepared for the NC tourney, which will likely be the most evenly matched in recent memory.

I wouldn't put the loss on RG30. It was a critical moment in the game, yes, but there were many times when we could have pushed an advantage or stopped the ND offense, and we didn't always get it done. That's how it goes.

I don't think anyone in the country is looking forward to seeing us in their bracket in the big tournament. We are primed to make a run. We'll go as far as our defense can take us.

D has gotten better. Goalie play has improved. Better job winning faceoffs. It all adds up.

A few less unforced turnovers so the offense has more chances would help as well.

mike1960

Swampy

BearLover

abmarks

BearLover
Cornell hockey won the ECAC and qualified for the NCAAs this season in large part because they didn’t have to beat anybody especially good on their way to the title.

So what. We'd have had a better shot at winning the whole thing if we'd learned from (and beat).much better teams.

You want a lottery ticket.

I'd rather have a much stronger chance of winning the rhing5

Huh? Cornell outplayed #5 Maine in the first round of the NCAAs and then evenly played #3 Denver, who ultimately won the national championship, in the quarterfinals. Where’s the evidence Cornell was hurt by its easy schedule? If Cornell lost to Quinnipiac in the ECAC tournament, there would have been no NCAA tournament, the season would have been over. Cornell was inches away from the Frozen Four in large part because we dodged having to play anyone good on its way to the league championship.

This season we saw a clear benefit of an easy ECAC, and we saw none of the (hypothetical) downsides.

Back to lacrosse—I think it is obviously better to avoid having to play good teams, if possible, particularly in one-and-done games which end your season.

It really depends on various stochastic events. Because of our tough schedule in lacrosse we have a relatively high RPI & SOS. Had RG30 not made a freshman mistake, we had a good chance of beating #1 ND, which would have ensured a place in the NC tourney. As is, unless we lose to a much lower-ranked Ivy in the first round of the ILT, which would lower our RPI substantially, because of our schedule and record we have a good chance of making the NC tourney even if we don't win the ILT. And having played some really tough competition, hopefully we'll be better prepared for the NC tourney, which will likely be the most evenly matched in recent memory.

I wouldn't put the loss on RG30. It was a critical moment in the game, yes, but there were many times when we could have pushed an advantage or stopped the ND offense, and we didn't always get it done. That's how it goes.

I don't think anyone in the country is looking forward to seeing us in their bracket in the big tournament. We are primed to make a run. We'll go as far as our defense can take us.

I agree: we could have won several ways, but we didn't. Nonetheless, had we succeeded in any one of the crucial moments you mention, our chances of winning the game would have increased substantially. I pointed to RG30's mistake because he is a first-year student. In both men's lacrosse and men's hockey, we've had an unusually large cohort of first-years getting regular playing time. This is testimony to how well the coaching staffs in both sports are recruiting. And, not coincidentally, both the ND lacrosse match and the Denver hockey match were lost by events that took place shortly after extremely talented first-year players made critical mistakes.

The implication is that as they mature and become more experienced, such mistakes are likely to become more infrequent. In other words,in both sports the future looks extremely bright,and we may look back at these two critical losses as necessary learning experiences on the way to realistic shots at NCs in both sports.

lax punishes a weak schedule much more than hockey. a good ivy league that we are not dogshit in is more of an advantage than a good ecac is in hockey, imo. i still find the debate re: hockey tedious because it's essentially not susceptible of compelling proof either way.

Scroll down to the photo of the 1948 RPI lacrosse team that represented USA in the Olympics. The young guy in the baseball cap later put Cornell lacrosse and hockey on the national map.

[www.usalacrosse.com]

Final weekend of the regular season. Ivy League nicely stacked the 3 games (Penn DNP today) so we can watch 2 1/2 of them without a lot of overlap. The current standings:

Cornell   4-1
Yale      4-1
Penn      4-2
Princeton 3-2
Brown     2-3
Harvard   1-4
Dartmouth 0-5

Princeton @ Yale, 12 noon. Princeton needs the win to guarantee it makes the ILT. A loss and maybe the Tigers would be 3-3 Ivy, 8-5 overall, maybe don't make the ILT and maybe don't make the NCAA tournament. Possibly the most talented team omitted. Game should finish by 2:15, time for a breather then ...

Brown @ Harvard, 3:30 pm. Of interest because if Princeton loses and Brown wins, Brown becomes the ILT four-seed. Harvard does not make the ILT win or lose.

Cornell @ Dartmouth, 4 pm. A win and Cornell assures itself at least a tie for the Ivy title and the 1-seed for the ILT since Cornell won the H2H over Yale. The only downside to such a late game is the team doesn't get back until midnight.

Sunday there is no selection show for the ILT since it's all determined by W-L and H2H comparisons. It's Friday 2 vs. 3 seed in semifinal 1, and 1 vs. 4 semifinal 2 Friday (they fixed the graphic that had all 3 games played Sunday, but removed the game times).

Cornell cruising up in New Hampshire. 10-5 at the half, 4-1–5 for CJ Kirst. Dartmouth shut out in the third, Cornell eases off the throttle, puts Tully in goal. Finally Cornell 15-10. . I can't tell if the game is moving more methodically (slowly) than our games against Yale-Princeton-Penn or if it's just finishing off the RS and getting ready for the ILT. Kirst 4-3--7, Danny Cadigan 3G. Back to Ithaca and home field advantage for the Ivy tournament.

Cornell   6  4  2  3 --  15
Dartmouth 2  3  0  5 --  10

---

Harvard dismantling the Brown dream (of making the ILT if also and only Princeton collapsed). Harvard 6, Brown 3 nearing halftime. Brown shuts out Harvard in the fourth quarter, comes up one goal short.

Brown     2  2  3  3  -- 10
Harvard   5  2  4  0  -- 11

---

Princeton playing well at Yale, maintaining a lead of a couple goals in the first half. Opens to 5 at the half: Princeton, 9-4. Princeton 12-4 midway into the third period. Sorry, Brown, your Cinderella dream of eking into that ILT four spot is fading. P13-7 after 3. Final: Princeton 15, Yale 8.

Princeton 4  5  4  2 -- 15
Yale      2  2  3  1 --  8

Nice to see the Yale video crew (like Cornell's) has trouble keeping the player with the ball in the scene, including some trouble tracking a Tiger long pole chugging halfway halfway across the field to score.

Looks as if the Brown-Harvard game is not consequential. Brown making the 4-seed required Y>Pr and B>H. So, ILT looks like:
ILT host: Cornell. Games: Cornell vs. Penn and Princeton vs. Yale.

So a cornell win makes it
Cornell
Princeton
Yale
Penn

Really need to beat Penn then because 2 losses to them and Penn perhaps winning the Ivy puts Cornell back on the bubble

Ivy League Instagram already says that the bracket is locked in and to be played in Ithaca, is this right even if we lose?

chimpfood
Ivy League Instagram already says that the bracket is locked in and to be played in Ithaca, is this right even if we lose?

The schedule on the CU site already has us playing Princeton at Schoellkopf Friday, May 3 at 8:30pm.

Trotsky

chimpfood
Ivy League Instagram already says that the bracket is locked in and to be played in Ithaca, is this right even if we lose?

The schedule on the CU site already has us playing Princeton at Schoellkopf Friday, May 3 at 8:30pm.

Huh, Ivy post says we play Penn at the same time.

This is the Ivy standings 4/27 after Princeton beat Penn, before Harvard-Brown, Cornell-Dartmouth.

Ivy Standings the Final Week [this tabulation for H-B and C-D]
TEAM        W  L  4/27 Game    Ivy Wins over (top 4 in bold)
Cornell     4  1  @Dartmouth   Princeton, Yale, Brown, Harvard 
Princeton   4  2  @Yale        Harvard, Dartmouth, Penn, Yale 
Yale        4  2  Princeton    Harvard, Brown, Penn, Dartmouth   
Penn        4  2  ----         Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Harvard  
Brown**     2  3  @Harvard     Princeton, Dartmouth 
Harvard     1  4  Brown 
Dartmouth   0  5  Cornell

Assuming Cornell loses to Dartmouth, four teams are 4-2.
Cornell has 2 wins against the other three 4-2 teams, loss only to Penn.
Princeton has 2 wins against the other 4-2 teams but loses H2H against Cornell
Yale has 2 wins against the others but loses H2Hs with Cornell and Princeton
Penn has 1 win against the other top teams but loses H2H

First tiebreaker, if 2 teams tied, it's decided on H2H record. It's 4 ties, so ...
Second tiebreaker, best cumulative record against the others who tied. Cornell, Princeton are 2-1 vs. top 3 opponents, Yale and Penn are 1-2. So Cornell and Princeton are the 1-2 or 2-1 teams.
Then H2H between Cornell and Princeton, Cornell beat the Tigers on the last-second goal. Thus:
1 Cornell
2 Princeton (which might have been out of the ILT with a loss at Yale, and B>H
3 Yale
4 Penn

I think that's how the tiebreaker works. Regardless, the Ivy League page has declared it thus.

I don't like this business of assuming we win before we play. It's bad luck.

upprdeck
So a cornell win makes it
Cornell
Princeton
Yale
Penn

Really need to beat Penn then because 2 losses to them and Penn perhaps winning the Ivy puts Cornell back on the bubble

I don’t see how that would put Cornell on the bubble.

Dartmouth really sucks.

Cornell opens an early 2-0 lead over Dartmouth.

Long not playing, Caddigan at attack with Kirst and Goldstein.

Most people think it's tempting fate.

But also this: God is on the side of the army with the bigger battalions. Cornell has won the last 11 meetings against Dartmouth. Hasn't lost at Dartmouth since 1997.

We need to mark up on those crease attacks. That's where Dartmouth wants to go.

You gotta ask: How difficult is it to broadcast the shot clock?

CU77
Long not playing, Caddigan at attack with Kirst and Goldstein.

What’s going on with Long?

BearLover

CU77
Long not playing, Caddigan at attack with Kirst and Goldstein.

What’s going on with Long?

No public word, AFAIK

CU77

BearLover

CU77
Long not playing, Caddigan at attack with Kirst and Goldstein.

What’s going on with Long?

No public word, AFAIK

Ugh. Did he finish last week’s game?

Broadcasters talking about Long's absence but they have no idea why he isn't playing.

BearLover

CU77

BearLover

CU77
Long not playing, Caddigan at attack with Kirst and Goldstein.

What’s going on with Long?

No public word, AFAIK

Ugh. Did he finish last week’s game?

Yes

You don't see a lot of lift checks anymore. That would help when the opponent loads to shoot.

Per a poster at fanlax on Long:

He is there in street clothes. Nothing obvious coming out to greet team on a play stoppage. 46 not playing either

RG30 is playing well at X. Moving the ball and finding open cutters.

12 - 5 Good guys after three quarters.

16 saves for both goalies.
15 turnovers for the Big Green

Cornell wins the game, 15-10, and sole possession of the Ivy League title.

Congrats to the team and coaches on a great regular season.

Trotsky

chimpfood
Ivy League Instagram already says that the bracket is locked in and to be played in Ithaca, is this right even if we lose?

The schedule on the CU site already has us playing Princeton at Schoellkopf Friday, May 3 at 8:30pm.

they really going to start the game at 8:30. Should be more like 4/7 if they want people to show up

mike1960
You gotta ask: How difficult is it to broadcast the shot clock?

a) there was at least one other game where the shot clock wasn't in the clock/scores onscreen graphic.
b) at some schools, either the clock doesn't output a signal for time shot clock time remaining, or their software doesn't accept the clock output but if ESPN is supplyng the production equipment (which may be as simple as a laptop and an extra screen or two) and an interface box to to the clock, the software should be the same everywhere.

I wouldn't mind a bigger shot clock, this on a 65" display from 10 feet away. I'd really like to control the size of the scores/clock graphic and what the graphic shows. It'll be do-able someday.

CU77
Cornell wins the game, 15-10, and sole possession of the Ivy League title.

Congrats to the team and coaches on a great regular season.

It was a good win. It was clear from the start that the Big Green were going to have an uphill day.

Our offense got the job done, although I think we took a few too many ill-considered shots. The absence of Mikey Long was noticeable. I hope he's ok for the tournament. We need him. RG30 had a couple of questionable moments but was otherwise great at X. CJ proved today that if you don't guard him, and often when you do, he will score goals.

Nice job with the defense. We kept Green from the top side and pushed them down the alleys. We also sent a slider to pick up pretty quick. I also like that we sent a double when the ballcarrier turned his back. That's a recipe for a turnover, and I think we got a couple from that. Too bad about the final three Green goals at the end. 7 is a lot better than 10 for a defense, but good job nonetheless!

Long on sidelines in shorts and black T. No wraps or bandages. Walked, moved fine.

mike1960

CU77
Cornell wins the game, 15-10, and sole possession of the Ivy League title.


Nice job with the defense. We kept Green from the top side and pushed them down the alleys. We also sent a slider to pick up pretty quick. I also like that we sent a double when the ballcarrier turned his back. That's a recipe for a turnover, and I think we got a couple from that. Too bad about the final three Green goals at the end. 7 is a lot better than 10 for a defense, but good job nonetheless!

Subs in the last regular season game to get some playing time. Last 3 goals less important than that experience for the players and their families. I remember when my kid was rookie goalie in as a sacrificial lamb. Worth every moment!

I’m having a hard time seeing how Cornell could miss the NCAAs at this point. We are 9th in RPI and there are 18 NCAA spots. We had one bad loss the entire season, vs Penn State; the other three losses were by one goal. We blew a lot of teams out. I don’t see how the committee could leave Cornell out even if we lose next week.

How many autobids could go to teams who would not get at-large bids?

Princeton was out.. Now they are back on the bubble, they could win the IVY

Mich could win the B10

Denver loses to a bad BE team and Gtown loses in the finals could get a WC in from there.

I dont think any other leagues can cause an issue.

We are probably safe but there really isnt a ton of wiggle room,

We are probably the safest of the IVY now and they all cant win 2 games to get ahead of us.

dag14

mike1960

CU77
Cornell wins the game, 15-10, and sole possession of the Ivy League title.


Nice job with the defense. We kept Green from the top side and pushed them down the alleys. We also sent a slider to pick up pretty quick. I also like that we sent a double when the ballcarrier turned his back. That's a recipe for a turnover, and I think we got a couple from that. Too bad about the final three Green goals at the end. 7 is a lot better than 10 for a defense, but good job nonetheless!

Subs in the last regular season game to get some playing time. Last 3 goals less important than that experience for the players and their families. I remember when my kid was rookie goalie in as a sacrificial lamb. Worth every moment!

Thanks! Probably great for team morale. The backups put in the work too.

Right! The Omar Kanjis of the lacrosse world work just as hard as the starters and the stars. If their parents and siblings and girlfriend see them in a game for 5 minutes, it is worth a lot. I think it ripples back to the recruiting candidates about which are the teams you want to play for. And the non-stars will support Cornell lax as alumni.

BearLover
I’m having a hard time seeing how Cornell could miss the NCAAs at this point. We are 9th in RPI and there are 18 NCAA spots. We had one bad loss the entire season, vs Penn State; the other three losses were by one goal. We blew a lot of teams out. I don’t see how the committee could leave Cornell out even if we lose next week.

How many autobids could go to teams who would not get at-large bids?

1) There are 17 slots: 9 autobids and 8 at-large bids.
2) The committee does not care, at all, about margins of victory or defeat.
3) The ACC does not get an autobid (too few teams).
4) From the ACC: ND, Duke, UVa, Cuse are all locks for ALs.
5) 2 B1G teams are locks (whichever of JHU,UMd,PSU do not get the autobid).
6) Georgeton/Denver loser is close to a lock (Denver beat JHU and us, GT beat ND).
7) That leaves one at-large left to claim. All 3 non-champ Ivies will have a shot at it.
8) If Michigan steals the B1G or Nova the Big East, then that last AL is gone.

billhoward
Right! The Omar Kanjis of the lacrosse world work just as hard as the starters and the stars. If their parents and siblings and girlfriend see them in a game for 5 minutes, it is worth a lot. I think it ripples back to the recruiting candidates about which are the teams you want to play for. And the non-stars will support Cornell lax as alumni.

Not to mention the fact that today's non-starters are tomorrow's starters. Lacrosse is a sport in which hard work and increased understanding pays off with significant player improvement.

Win 1 game and they are in.

Lose 1 game and who knows

G-town/yale/princ/penn are all playing for 2 spots if Cornell wins game 1.

Who ever loses princ/yale is probably out.

Still Cornell losing to Penn is bad.

Probably best if Yale wins the thing if Cornell doesnt.

CU77

BearLover
I’m having a hard time seeing how Cornell could miss the NCAAs at this point. We are 9th in RPI and there are 18 NCAA spots. We had one bad loss the entire season, vs Penn State; the other three losses were by one goal. We blew a lot of teams out. I don’t see how the committee could leave Cornell out even if we lose next week.

How many autobids could go to teams who would not get at-large bids?

1) There are 17 slots: 9 autobids and 8 at-large bids.
2) The committee does not care, at all, about margins of victory or defeat.
3) The ACC does not get an autobid (too few teams).
4) From the ACC: ND, Duke, UVa, Cuse are all locks for ALs.
5) 2 B1G teams are locks (whichever of JHU,UMd,PSU do not get the autobid).
6) Georgeton/Denver loser is close to a lock (Denver beat JHU and us, GT beat ND).
7) That leaves one at-large left to claim. All 3 non-champ Ivies will have a shot at it.
8) If Michigan steals the B1G or Nova the Big East, then that last AL is gone.

I think there are 18 slots now, rather than 17.

If the committee doesn’t consider margin of victory, then there should be no committee at all. RPI does a way better job of determining who is most deserving than the committee ever could.

BearLover

CU77

BearLover
I’m having a hard time seeing how Cornell could miss the NCAAs at this point. We are 9th in RPI and there are 18 NCAA spots. We had one bad loss the entire season, vs Penn State; the other three losses were by one goal. We blew a lot of teams out. I don’t see how the committee could leave Cornell out even if we lose next week.

How many autobids could go to teams who would not get at-large bids?

1) There are 17 slots: 9 autobids and 8 at-large bids.
2) The committee does not care, at all, about margins of victory or defeat.
3) The ACC does not get an autobid (too few teams).
4) From the ACC: ND, Duke, UVa, Cuse are all locks for ALs.
5) 2 B1G teams are locks (whichever of JHU,UMd,PSU do not get the autobid).
6) Georgeton/Denver loser is close to a lock (Denver beat JHU and us, GT beat ND).
7) That leaves one at-large left to claim. All 3 non-champ Ivies will have a shot at it.
8) If Michigan steals the B1G or Nova the Big East, then that last AL is gone.

I think there are 18 slots now, rather than 17.

If the committee doesn’t consider margin of victory, then there should be no committee at all. RPI does a way better job of determining who is most deserving than the committee ever could.

I believe “margin of victory” is not included in the tournament selection criteria, which is what it’s not considered.

BearLover
If the committee doesn’t consider margin of victory, then there should be no committee at all. RPI does a way better job of determining who is most deserving than the committee ever could.

The 2024 NCAA tournament bracket diagram shows one early-round bracket, sort of like the basketball play-in or (for a year before they were hooted down) the "first round" which then made it a seven-round tournament.

For 2024 D1 lacrosse, two teams play in that round-before-first round, one team advances into the round of 16, and the loser is the 17th team. Those two teams are described as two autobid teams that have low RPIs. If that is the case, then it is 17 teams, I believe.

This little growth on the bracket in the upper left is the play-in or round-before-first bracket.

billhoward
And the non-stars will support Cornell lax as alumni.

I wonder if we have ever had a guy on the lax team, or really any person on any Cornell team, only because they were rich AF and being groomed as a future money hose.

So, if margin of victory/loss isn’t part of the selection committee’s criteria, what *is* their criteria? And why in the world would it be preferable to going purely based off of RPI?

Trotsky

billhoward
And the non-stars will support Cornell lax as alumni.

I wonder if we have ever had a guy on the lax team, or really any person on any Cornell team, only because they were rich AF and being groomed as a future money hose.

Look at recent years to see which guys majored in business and went on to work on Wall Street. Then go back and eliminate the ones who started during their last year as a player. And you'll have a pretty good answer to your question.

BearLover
So, if margin of victory/loss isn’t part of the selection committee’s criteria, what *is* their criteria? And why in the world would it be preferable to going purely based off of RPI?

Official criteria are pretty goofy (see below), and IMO they are not preferable to straight RPI. Also the committee usually seems to start with straight RPI anyway and then muck around from there, since the official criteria are essentially incomprehensible. But it used to be much worse: prior to 2009, "strength of schedule" was officially the most important criterion, and Cornell was often screwed by that (2007 being particularly egregious, and in fact the impetus for the later change).

DIVISION I SELECTION CRITERIA:
The committee will utilize the following criteria to select and seed teams:
• Strength of schedule index.
• Results of the RPI.
- Record against ranked teams 1-5; 6-10; 11-15; 16-20; 21+
- Average RPI win (average RPI of all wins)
- Average RPI loss (average RPI of all losses)
• Head-to-head competition:
- Results versus common opponents.
- Significant wins and losses (wins against teams ranked higher in the RPI and losses against teams ranked lower in the RPI).
- Locations of contests.
• Input from the regional advisory committee (comprised of lacrosse coaches from all AQ conferences).

[www.ncaa.com]

CU77DIVISION I SELECTION CRITERIA:
The committee will utilize the following criteria to select and seed teams:
• Strength of schedule index.
• Results of the RPI.
- Record against ranked teams 1-5; 6-10; 11-15; 16-20; 21+
- Average RPI win (average RPI of all wins)
- Average RPI loss (average RPI of all losses)
• Head-to-head competition:
- Results versus common opponents.
- Significant wins and losses (wins against teams ranked higher in the RPI and losses against teams ranked lower in the RPI).
- Locations of contests.
• Input from the regional advisory committee (comprised of lacrosse coaches from all AQ conferences).
[url
https://www.ncaa.com/championships/lacrosse-men/d1/road-to-the-championships#Division%20I[/url]

That last item, "input from the regional advisory committee," might translate to "wild card factor not subject to hard and fast rules."

billhoward

CU77DIVISION I SELECTION CRITERIA:
The committee will utilize the following criteria to select and seed teams:
• Strength of schedule index.
• Results of the RPI.
- Record against ranked teams 1-5; 6-10; 11-15; 16-20; 21+
- Average RPI win (average RPI of all wins)
- Average RPI loss (average RPI of all losses)
• Head-to-head competition:
- Results versus common opponents.
- Significant wins and losses (wins against teams ranked higher in the RPI and losses against teams ranked lower in the RPI).
- Locations of contests.
• Input from the regional advisory committee (comprised of lacrosse coaches from all AQ conferences).
[url
https://www.ncaa.com/championships/lacrosse-men/d1/road-to-the-championships#Division%20I[/url]

That last item, "input from the regional advisory committee," might translate to "wild card factor not subject to hard and fast rules."

= gut feeling.

... that is, something the committee feels that doesn't track with RPI or WL or other hard stats. It's good that this is one check on criteria bound into the square box of The Ranking Rules. Except that 50 years ago it was that gut feeling that kept Cornell from winning the final polls-not-playoffs of the late 1960s and then in 1971 when it was a playoff, Cornell won.