Cornell football 2023

Good points. From another vantage point:

If Schoellkopf's visitor locker rooms suck for visiting football players, well, tough, that's a good reason to go to Cornell.

De facto if not de jure, the visitors sit on the far (away from campus; scoreboard side) end of Schoellkopf Field, between the 20- and 40-yard lines. With an attendance of 5525 and a Schoellkopf Crescent capacity of 21,500, there's little chance the Princeton fans felt crowded by Cornell masses.

Is the confusion about Dyson School the part about "why is it so hard to get in to?" that's because the admit rate is lower than the College of Arts & Sciences. A lot of disappointed applicants.

That is not to say Schoellkopf is not aging less than gracefully. It is one of the dozen oldest college football stadiums although Franklin Field, Harvard Stadium and Yale Bowl are older. With the 100th anniversary of Schoellkopf Field coming up, there'll likely be discussion about its condition.

Princeton's new stadium (1997) is a model for what a college football stadium should be including that it's so close to campus that (in Princeton's words), "it stands as an extension of the campus, integrated into the daily life of the University. The stadium concourses are always open, and the facility has served as a meeting and banquet place for many constituents."

upprdeck
There is a complete disconnect in Athletics across all the sports.. A few teams over come it, but its still a huge issue with getting better players on the various teams..

I assume it's just favoritism. If you have alumni pre$$$ence, you get goodies. Otherwise, we remember we're an Ivy.

Did 2010 change the world for Cornell hoops? Were they able to monetize that, or did they immediately sink right back into the well?

Trotsky

upprdeck
There is a complete disconnect in Athletics across all the sports.. A few teams over come it, but its still a huge issue with getting better players on the various teams..

I assume it's just favoritism. If you have alumni pre$$$ence, you get goodies. Otherwise, we remember we're an Ivy.

Did 2010 change the world for Cornell hoops? Were they able to monetize that, or did they immediately sink right back into the well?

A coach did, I know that.

Local Motion

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section. Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

billhoward
Princeton's new stadium (1997) is a model for what a college football stadium should be including that it's so close to campus that (in Princeton's words), "it stands as an extension of the campus, integrated into the daily life of the University. The stadium concourses are always open, and the facility has served as a meeting and banquet place for many constituents."

The point is well-received, though the UofM for instance would probably take issue with keeping the concourses of Michigan Stadium perpetually open for various logistical reasons. The UofM also boasting a football program, of course, that can support a behemoth facility solely dedicated to it. I like the multi-purpose event space angle as justification for construction of a new football stadium at a smaller college or university (or one with a less lucrative football program), however, to more closely align the interests and goals of the program and those of the university.

mike1960

Local Motion

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section. Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

RichH

mike1960

Local Motion

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section. Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Andy Noel said at one time there was a long range plan to build more team space (as in locker rooms/weight training) where the West stands stood, with visitor seating above. That was put on the back burner to focus on the Indoor Practice Facility. With that project finally moving towards construction they may look to the West stand project again at some point.

In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse. When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose. For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field. I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility. It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time. That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

Local Motion
In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse. When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose. For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field. I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility. It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time. That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

I'm not sure the answer to Cornell's football recruiting woes is to add MORE empty seats on game day.

RichH

mike1960

Local Motion

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section. Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Sorry, but why do we need a visitor’s section when the home section is never more than 10% full outside of homecoming?

Chris '03

Local Motion
In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse. When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose. For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field. I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility. It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time. That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

I'm not sure the answer to Cornell's football recruiting woes is to add MORE empty seats on game day.

The takeway point, I think, is the illusion Dartmouth creates, for instance, by arranging about half the number (if not less) of bleacher seats around the playing surface in a semicircular pattern -- more of a "stadium" feel akin to top-line high school programs. I've not attended a football game at Dartmouth, but I imagine the acoustics and atmosphere are somehat better than the single-sided Crescent facing an open parking garage at some distance. But that is postulation.

These kids will come to Cornell to play football if they see on-field success, but of course success is bred from recruiting (and coaching) -- i.e. the sometimes fickle psychology of 18-year-old HS seniors. Schoellkopf seems less "stadium" and more small-time HS bleachers on a larger scale. If number of empty seats relative to capacity was the sole determining factor, though, I'd expect Yale and Penn to be drubbed in recruiting.

tycho

Chris '03

Local Motion
In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse. When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose. For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field. I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility. It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time. That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

I'm not sure the answer to Cornell's football recruiting woes is to add MORE empty seats on game day.

The takeway point, I think, is the illusion Dartmouth creates, for instance, by arranging about half the number (if not less) of bleacher seats around the playing surface in a semicircular pattern -- more of a "stadium" feel akin to top-line high school programs. I've not attended a football game at Dartmouth, but I imagine the acoustics and atmosphere are somehat better than the single-sided Crescent facing an open parking garage at some distance. But that is postulation.

These kids will come to Cornell to play football if they see on-field success, but of course success is bred from recruiting (and coaching) -- i.e. the sometimes fickle psychology of 18-year-old HS seniors. Schoellkopf seems less "stadium" and more small-time HS bleachers on a larger scale. If number of empty seats relative to capacity was the sole determining factor, though, I'd expect Yale and Penn to be drubbed in recruiting.

I've had the pleasure of seeing Cornell lose at every Ivy. My recollection of seeing a game at Dartmouth was that the stadium was entirely without character and featured metal bleachers on both sides of the field with open end zones. Similar but less interesting than Columbia or Colgate.

And yet, Dartmouth has a somewhat proud football tradition. Because where parents put their butts is less important to the recruits than other facilities in an Ivy League that isn't exactly a hot ticket anywhere. And the facilities are only one piece of the puzzle of course.

I agree with RichH that the failure to rebuild the west stands is brutal. It's made worse by the crescent being um.. past its prime. When I was a student, the west stands is where we watched everything but (full size) football. For a while I think one of the coached even made the west stands the football student section.

The stadium facility needs help. But putting bleachers in the end zones isn't making or breaking whether a kid goes to Dartmouth or Cornell.

Other Ivy Stadiums:
Harvard- truly a gem; not on campus but a great place to watch a game
Yale - the bowl is an icon; splinters for everyone; also off campus
Penn- Franklin Field is an icon too; effectively on campus; old but not condemned....
Princeton - the modern stadium that is center stage in Billhoward's dreams. It is modern without being Quinnipiac. On campus. Perfectly nice.
Columbia - off campus; unexceptional in every way
Brown - schoellkopf with less scenery to look at
Dartmouth - unexceptional

Pretty sure that in the Ivy League, only Yale and Princeton have stands on four sides. Harvard and Penn are horseshoes. Columbia, Brown, and Dartmouth have stands on two sides. None of them are modern marvels that are winning recruiting battles. That's more likely coaching, locker rooms, training facilities, etc.

they have the space to put up tents on the west side for the visitors to use..

Chris '03
The stadium facility needs help. But putting bleachers in the end zones isn't making or breaking whether a kid goes to Dartmouth or Cornell.

Yes, hence the last sentence of my prior. The point, of course, is not one of simply adding more seats to the existing facility (the utility of the west stands for non-full-size football sports notwithstanding). That Yale and Penn can manage to put together successful teams is all the evidence I need to see that an electric atmosphere with lots of butts in lots of seats -- certainly not the hallmark of smaller FCS and Ivy League in particular -- is not a necessary condition. Though Schoellkopf seems to me almost uniquely suited (as does Brown Stadium) to dilute the energy of an already-small crowd, it is certainly my position that there is a broad array of factors weighing on a decision to commit.

Chris '03
I agree with RichH that the failure to rebuild the west stands is brutal. It's made worse by the crescent being um.. past its prime. When I was a student, the west stands is where we watched everything but (full size) football. For a while I think one of the coached even made the west stands the football student section.

Agree.

maybe if we paid a coach more than 50K a yr they could fix the program.

I think the Crescent is gorgeous, personally.

One of the few lovely remaining structures on a campus plummeting into drab utilitarian treachery.

The old West Stands were basically a high school type of bleachers with 4,000 seats which was probably too big for modern day FCS football. However, if nothing else Cornell needs some West Stand seating for graduation. I am also not advocating a bowl like Yale or other stadium. However, at the very least we need a smaller set of visitor seats similar to Dartmouth's current set-up.

Right now Schoellkopf looks like #$%^&*! on the west side with that ugly parking garage. We are not talking huge money, but say 1,500 elevated seats on that side with a new all-purpose locker-room under those stands. Other Ivies like Yale and Princeton have separate state of the art stadiums for sports like lacrosse. At Cornell, Schoellkopf Field is the only true stadium we have on campus. It would also be nice to bring some soccer games back to Schoellkopf. Six current MLS pro soccer clubs play on Field Turf. A lot more fun to play some bigger but maybe limited soccer games at Schoellkopf than at our much smaller complex on the east end of Alumni Fields.

The only way the area around Schoellkopf will ever be attractive again is to bulldoze everything from the west stands to Carpenter and plant trees.

I go back a ways as I watched my first game in 1963 when CU had Wood and Gogolak and there were 19,000 at game (Band Day). My dad and I watched from the End Zone bleachers. Would like to see West Stands restored to some extent and maybe the University could look at extensive renovation of Crescent to also include some chair backs and gussie up the box seats if they could get a big bucks backer.

the amount of money already put into the crescent is pretty steep. Would they spend millions more for seatbacks with the retro fit that requires.

The Ivy League is a sports conference and not an academic affiliation. If Cornell wants to remain an Ivy League affiliate at the very least our stadium and other athletic facilities should be at Ivy League standards. I know for example, Tim Murphy the head coach at Harvard hates traveling over six hours to Ithaca via bus. I can assure you there are a number of Ivy League coaches who would be very pleased to not travel to Ithaca anymore. The Ivy League is a New England and Mid-Atlantic focused conference. Cornell is the only school that doesn't even have an expressway that takes you directly to Ithaca. That's another reason why I think the Cornell vs. Columbia game should be played every year in NYC. The good news is NYC is in Cornell's DNA. When I travel to Manhattan on business, I enjoy going running in Central Park as I always see other people wearing Cornell gear.

Again Schoellkopf Field is the most heavily used athletic facility at Cornell. It's literally the only stadium we have on campus and at the very least it should be a classic Ivy League venue.

Local Motion
The Ivy League is a sports conference and not an academic affiliation. If Cornell wants to remain an Ivy League affiliate at the very least our stadium and other athletic facilities should be at Ivy League standards. I know for example, Tim Murphy the head coach at Harvard hates traveling over six hours to Ithaca via bus. I can assure you there are a number of Ivy League coaches who would be very pleased to not travel to Ithaca anymore. The Ivy League is a New England and Mid-Atlantic focused conference. Cornell is the only school that doesn't even have an expressway that takes you directly to Ithaca. That's another reason why I think the Cornell vs. Columbia game should be played every year in NYC. The good news is NYC is in Cornell's DNA. When I travel to Manhattan on business, I enjoy going running in Central Park as I always see other people wearing Cornell gear.

Again Schoellkopf Field is the most heavily used athletic facility at Cornell. It's literally the only stadium we have on campus and at the very least it should be a classic Ivy League venue.

+1

Trotsky
I think the Crescent is gorgeous, personally.

While I don’t know if I’d call the historic Crescent “gorgeous,” I do find it unique, attractive and well-suited for our campus, with more than adequate capacity for most events. It could, however, use some additional amenities and undoubtedly some structural upgrades.

The best way to deal with occasional capacity shortcomings is to build a multipurpose building where the west stands once stood. The space between the parking garage and the field is over 50 feet wide. Locker rooms, weight rooms and some other functions that don’t need windows, could be located on the building’s west side, while offices, meeting rooms, etc. could face the field. The top floor could have suites where administrators could entertain potential donors, as well as additional enclosed, climate-controlled seating. Potential naming rights abound. The roof level could have open stands, with, perhaps, seats with backs for aged alumni (still more naming opportunities).

All that stuff sounds good but probably in the tens of millions of dollars. To save money Cornell could add those modular multi-purpose locker room and then add 1500 seat elevated grandstands. Adorn the grandstands with eight poles for Ivy League flags. Albany built a beautiful new stadium about ten years ago. They ran out of money for the visitor stands, so they added a smaller grandstand with the CAA league flags flying over head. The stadium looks really nice. I think Albany's goal is to move up to FBS football in the Mid-American conference similar to their western cousin University of Buffalo. If they renovate the stadium again they can move those stands for soccer or another sport.

Like I said before the parking garage on the westside of Schoellkopf on television and the news photo gallery looks like something out of the "Longest Yard". It has to be the ugliest back drop of any program in all of college football. I have no doubt it's a recruiting liability.

Local Motion
All that stuff sounds good but probably in the tens of millions of dollars. To save money Cornell could add those modular multi-purpose locker room and then add 1500 seat elevated grandstands. Adorn the grandstands with eight poles for Ivy League flags. Albany built a beautiful new stadium about ten years ago. They ran out of money for the visitor stands, so they added a smaller grandstand with the CAA league flags flying over head. The stadium looks really nice. I think Albany's goal is to move up to FBS football in the Mid-American conference similar to their western cousin University of Buffalo. If they renovate the stadium again they can move those stands for soccer or another sport.

Like I said before the parking garage on the westside of Schoellkopf on television and the news photo gallery looks like something out of the "Longest Yard". It has to be the ugliest back drop of any program in all of college football. I have no doubt it's a recruiting liability.

This sounds really good. I can also imagine students from the College of AAP coming up with amazing plans to refurbish and modernize the entire area.

George64

Trotsky
I think the Crescent is gorgeous, personally.

While I don’t know if I’d call the historic Crescent “gorgeous,” I do find it unique, attractive and well-suited for our campus, with more than adequate capacity for most events. It could, however, use some additional amenities and undoubtedly some structural upgrades.

The best way to deal with occasional capacity shortcomings is to build a multipurpose building where the west stands once stood. The space between the parking garage and the field is over 50 feet wide. Locker rooms, weight rooms and some other functions that don’t need windows, could be located on the building’s west side, while offices, meeting rooms, etc. could face the field. The top floor could have suites where administrators could entertain potential donors, as well as additional enclosed, climate-controlled seating. Potential naming rights abound. The roof level could have open stands, with, perhaps, seats with backs for aged alumni (still more naming opportunities).

You may have missed this post of mine above, "Andy Noel said at one time there was a long range plan to build more team space (as in locker rooms/weight training) where the West stands stood, with visitor seating above. That was put on the back burner to focus on the Indoor Practice Facility. With that project finally moving towards construction they may look to the West stand project again at some point."

Sorry if this was already answered, but why do we need more seating in a stadium that is consistently 95% empty?

Quite an exciting finish to the Dartmouth-Princeton game on ESPNU this evening. Dart. 23, Prin. 21. 47-yarder by a freshman kicker to win. Two teams (Dartmouth, Princeton) at 3-2 in the Ivies, four(!) at 2-2 (Penn, Cornell, Brown, Yale). Harvard at 3-1 and struggling Columbia at 0-4. Big game for Cornell tomorrow. Believe it or not, they're still in it if they can find a way against Penn (though I certainly have reservation), with a tough road matchup against Dartmouth and a very winnable one at home against Columbia remaining. I've a hard time imagining a Harvard defeat at the hands of Columbia, however, so they're likely to hold onto a solo first through the weekend.

BearLover

RichH

mike1960

Local Motion

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section. Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Sorry, but why do we need a visitor’s section when the home section is never more than 10% full outside of homecoming?

No need to apologize. I feel bad that you weren’t able to read all the way to the end of my post. The stadium is used for things other than football. Many of those have attendances of less than 1000. Having a smaller set of stands allows the facility to be used without opening the large stands. Without the track, you could also make them much closer to the field surface than the past incarceration. Lower burden on facilities and staffing.

RichH

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Sorry, but why do we need a visitor’s section when the home section is never more than 10% full outside of homecoming?

No need to apologize. I feel bad that you weren’t able to read all the way to the end of my post. The stadium is used for things other than football. Many of those have attendances of less than 1000. Having a smaller set of stands allows the facility to be used without opening the large stands. Without the track, you could also make them much closer to the field surface than the past incarceration. Lower burden on facilities and staffing.[/quote] that shows why we need an upgrade right there

ugarte

RichH

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Sorry, but why do we need a visitor’s section when the home section is never more than 10% full outside of homecoming?

No need to apologize. I feel bad that you weren’t able to read all the way to the end of my post. The stadium is used for things other than football. Many of those have attendances of less than 1000. Having a smaller set of stands allows the facility to be used without opening the large stands. Without the track, you could also make them much closer to the field surface than the past incarceration. Lower burden on facilities and staffing.

that shows why we need an upgrade right there[/quote]

Autocorrect is sometimes strangely appropriate.

RichH

BearLover

RichH

mike1960

Local Motion

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section. Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Sorry, but why do we need a visitor’s section when the home section is never more than 10% full outside of homecoming?

No need to apologize. I feel bad that you weren’t able to read all the way to the end of my post.

Ok

Cornell secondary getting burned by the big play again. Penn up 10-0 through one. Eh.

Play-calling still abysmal. Making it impossible to sustain a drive.

1-3 Ivy finish coming up. That should be bye bye to Archer.

Making me less concerned that I didn't bother driving down to the game.

Al DeFlorio
Play-calling still abysmal. Making it impossible to sustain a drive.

Considering we actually have a talented QB, it’s inexcusable.

Penn dominating on the ground. 125 yards and a TD for Hosley at the half. Yikes.

Want a logical replacement for Archer. Look no further that U. of Penn's Offensive Coordinator Dan Swanstrom. He was went 32-11 (.744) and his teams registered eight wins in all four seasons in which they took led Ithaca College as their head coach. Knows the Ivy League, was a former head coach, and has even lived in the Ithaca area.

tycho
Penn dominating on the ground. 125 yards and a TD for Hosley at the half. Yikes.

Of course, 68 came on one play, the TD. Big play strikes again.

Nice series to start the half. 4 minutes, a touchdown, and a 2-pt cuts the lead in half. Talk about a hot-and-cold team.

Cornell losing 16-8, Penn blocks a Cornell FG but cocks up the recovery so they take over all the way back at the 4. No matter; RB bounces the run outside and he's gone for a 96 yard TD. 23-8.

I’d have to go back and look, but it seems like very nearly all of the TDs against Cornell over the past couple of weeks have been >50 yarders. Hard to watch.

Real issue is inability to put up points.

tycho
I’d have to go back and look, but it seems like very nearly all of the TDs against Cornell over the past couple of weeks have been >50 yarders. Hard to watch.

This goes way back to Archer's decision to hire Jared Bakus as his DC. Bakus was the Princeton DC before Cornell hired him, and Princeton was planning to fire him after Princeton went 1-9, 1-9 and 5-5 in his 3 seasons there. This explains why Princeton would let him go in a lateral hiring to another Ivy school.

ugarte
Cornell losing 16-8, Penn blocks a Cornell FG but cocks up the recovery so they take over all the way back at the 4. No matter; RB bounces the run outside and he's gone for a 96 yard TD. 23-8.

Cornell with an actually great response drive that ends in disaster. Catch and run by Laboy on third and long to get to the 2, marred by, to my amateur eye, what looked like a potentially serious hip injury from an awkward tackle. Then, play action incomplete pass, run up the middle for 1, jet sweep for 0, sneak stuffed. Oof.

Wang tried to throw the incomplete pass out of the back of the end zone and accidentally hit a receiver in the hands who then got hit by three defenders at once while he was in the air and the ball looked like it was going to get picked off, then like one of the other receivers might make a crazy catch on the deflection. A real rollercoaster of a single play.

Cornell gets the ball back, crossed midfield, Wang telegraphs his intent on a stop and go sideline route and the safety sides under for an easy pick.

Lack of a big play offense. Offensive pass plays only seem to get 5-7 yards at a time all season long. Kizer had some long touchdowns catches in the Lehigh game. Besides him no blazing speed in the receiver corps plus Kizer has been playing injured. Run blocking g not so hot either.

Cornell now guaranteed its 18th consecutive non-winning season. Well, only 17th, if we don’t count 2020 when we didn’t play.

Ken711

tycho
I’d have to go back and look, but it seems like very nearly all of the TDs against Cornell over the past couple of weeks have been >50 yarders. Hard to watch.

This goes way back to Archer's decision to hire Jared Bakus as his DC. Bakus was the Princeton DC before Cornell hired him, and Princeton was planning to fire him after Princeton went 1-9, 1-9 and 5-5 in his 3 seasons there. This explains why Princeton would let him go in a lateral hiring to another Ivy school.

Well, at least defensive fatigue isn’t a factor. Hard for it to be when they’re on the field for two snaps before the opponent rips off a big scoring play. Just look at the ToP. Big Red had the ball for 38 minutes today to Penn’s 22. That tells the story.

That Cornell actually managed to outgain Penn 431 to 365 tells one all they’d need to know regarding Cornell’s ability to complete possessions.

I caught the last 5 minutes of the game on TV. The Penn announcers actually had some good things to say about Cornell. Although they were actually more focused on the fact that the Penn running back actually had a chance to beat the school record for yards by a RB, unlikely as that would be if Penn got the ball back (since they'd take a knee rather than run the ball).

Penn dominated Cornell with their running game. I think their freshman RB had something like 260 rushing? I am not sure if I read that yet. Meanwhile when is the last time Cornell football has had an RB rush for over 100 yards? The Big Red was once the tailback U in the Ivy League with Marinaro, Holland, Harmen, Malaga, Oliaro, Levitt, and Siwula.

Local Motion
Penn dominated Cornell with their running game. I think their freshman RB had something like 260 rushing? I am not sure if I read that yet.

That is correct. Of course, 164 of those yards came on a combined two scoring plays, of 68 and 96 yards, respectively.

Jeff Hopkins '82
I caught the last 5 minutes of the game on TV. The Penn announcers actually had some good things to say about Cornell.

I didn't see the first half, so by the time I started watching it was already 16-0, so I can't speak to how we got there and given that score, it may well be that Penn slacked off a bit which made our team look better than it would have if Penn kept up full effort.

That said, the team played pretty well from what I saw and when they failed it was failures of execution, not gameplanning. I saw the 16-0 score at the half but got distracted by life. When I turned on the game on, it was after we'd scored a TD+2 and while the refs were figuring out where to spot the ball after Penn blocked a field goal attempt that would have cut the deficit to 5.

The play that put the game out of reach was kind of a fluke. Penn took over at the 4, and the first play called for a run up the middle, but the Cornell DL didn't leave any hole at all. Unfortunately, the RB bounced left and there was no contain because everyone committed to the stuff. The cut was nice, he cut back again on a LB and was gone. He almost got caught from behind at around the 10 but heard the footsteps and cut again to shake the trailer. Tip your cap, it was a pretty run for 96.

Cornell responded by driving all the way to the 2 and the failure from there isn't on Archer. The line didn't hold up on the play action and the receiver dropped a throw in the end zone; the RB got stuffed, the sweep got strung out all the way to the boundary, Wang got stuffed. The defense held, Cornell got the ball near midfield and after a first down, Wang through a tunnel-vision pick. The defense held again. Cornell drove inside the 10 again, and Wang threw three incomplete passes.

I think the team is closer than a lot of people want to admit. Probably still not anything that will win the conference or make us collectively happy but not so obviously bad that I think his job is in jeopardy. His standing with the department is probably not terrible because he's an alum, he appears committed to wanting to make a life in Ithaca rather than treating Cornell as a stepping stone, and he does just well enough that it kind of seems like we're on the verge sometimes.

As frustrated as I know we all are, I'm less ready to get the torches than it seems like all of you and have actually kind of reconciled myself to him having forever to figure it out.

ugarte

Jeff Hopkins '82
I caught the last 5 minutes of the game on TV. The Penn announcers actually had some good things to say about Cornell.

I didn't see the first half, so by the time I started watching it was already 16-0, so I can't speak to how we got there and given that score, it may well be that Penn slacked off a bit which made our team look better than it would have if Penn kept up full effort.

That said, the team played pretty well from what I saw and when they failed it was failures of execution, not gameplanning. I saw the 16-0 score at the half but got distracted by life. When I turned on the game on, it was after we'd scored a TD+2 and while the refs were figuring out where to spot the ball after Penn blocked a field goal attempt that would have cut the deficit to 5.

The play that put the game out of reach was kind of a fluke. Penn took over at the 4, and the first play called for a run up the middle, but the Cornell DL didn't leave any hole at all. Unfortunately, the RB bounced left and there was no contain because everyone committed to the stuff. The cut was nice, he cut back again on a LB and was gone. He almost got caught from behind at around the 10 but heard the footsteps and cut again to shake the trailer. Tip your cap, it was a pretty run for 96.

Cornell responded by driving all the way to the 2 and the failure from there isn't on Archer. The line didn't hold up on the play action and the receiver dropped a throw in the end zone; the RB got stuffed, the sweep got strung out all the way to the boundary, Wang got stuffed. The defense held, Cornell got the ball near midfield and after a first down, Wang through a tunnel-vision pick. The defense held again. Cornell drove inside the 10 again, and Wang threw three incomplete passes.

I think the team is closer than a lot of people want to admit. Probably still not anything that will win the conference or make us collectively happy but not so obviously bad that I think his job is in jeopardy. His standing with the department is probably not terrible because he's an alum, he appears committed to wanting to make a life in Ithaca rather than treating Cornell as a stepping stone, and he does just well enough that it kind of seems like we're on the verge sometimes.

As frustrated as I know we all are, I'm less ready to get the torches than it seems like all of you and have actually kind of reconciled myself to him having forever to figure it out.

If you haven't figured it out in 10 years, you're never going to figure it out I'm afraid. Can we at least expect one winning season in those 10 years of trying to figure it out? Not even having one of those ten seasons where you win more Ivy League games than you lose, forget about ever seriously challenging for the Ivy Championship? Sorry, his time should be up.

Ken711

If you haven't figured it out in 10 years, you're never going to figure it out I'm afraid. Can we at least expect one winning season in those 10 years of trying to figure it out? Not even having one of those ten seasons where you win more Ivy League games than you lose, forget about ever seriously challenging for the Ivy Championship? Sorry, his time should be up.

I'm not arguing with you! I don't think your position is wrong, much less unreasonable. I'm telling you where my head is at and why i don't waste my energy complaining. I'm not naive, i simply prefer to talk about the micro - the fun and tragic aspects of each game - rather than dwelling on the macro.

I think what has nagged Cornell over the years outside of the Musick and Baughn regimes is that CU can get talent to be competitive but not quite enough get to the top.

rss77
I think what has nagged Cornell over the years outside of the Musick and Baughn regimes is that CU can get talent to be competitive but not quite enough get to the top.

Jim Hofher had a nice run as HC with success as well.

It's really too bad Jim Hofher left Cornell in 1998 because I think he could have enjoyed a long term successful coaching career at Cornell. I think Hofher was probably frustrated with the lack of support from admissions and financial aid at Cornell. I always liked the way Hofher coached the offense with a nice blend of running and passing the ball. HIe always had a strong running game at Cornell.

It's a tough time at Cornell right now as it's no secret Martha Pollack could care less about Big Red athletics or anything not related to computer science. Is it any wonder why Cornell today has a huge problem with student depression and anxiety on campus? In my opinion Martha Pollack has cast a dark cloud over Cornell ever since she has arrived in Ithaca. I think she is a terrible leader of the Cornell staff and students. Just ask many members of the Cornell staff and our students basically never even see her. At graduation last May my niece said it was the first time she had seen Martha Pollack since orientation her freshman year.

Local Motion
It's really too bad Jim Hofher left Cornell in 1998 because I think he could have enjoyed a long term successful coaching career at Cornell. I think Hofher was probably frustrated with the lack of support from admissions and financial aid at Cornell. I always liked the way Hofher coached the offense with a nice blend of running and passing the ball. HIe always had a strong running game at Cornell.

It's a tough time at Cornell right now as it's no secret Martha Pollack could care less about Big Red athletics or anything not related to computer science. Is it any wonder why Cornell today has a huge problem with student depression and anxiety on campus? In my opinion Martha Pollack has cast a dark cloud over Cornell ever since she has arrived in Ithaca. I think she is a terrible leader of the Cornell staff and students. Just ask many members of the Cornell staff and our students basically never even see her. At graduation last May my niece said it was the first time she had seen Martha Pollack since orientation her freshman year.

Andy Noel has a lot to do with any dark shadow over the football program.

During Pollack’s presidency, applications for admission & yield have reached new highs, & admit rates record lows. The last two years were the best fundraising years in Cornell’s history. And Cornell is planning to build the new indoor athletics facility.

I think on the football side all the school cares about is donations not results.. Donations are up. If they thought having a better fball program would bring in more money then they would spend the time and effort.

I’ve long believed it costs a lot to win,
but even more to lose. Cornell needs to invest much more in football (coaching salaries, facilities, etc.). I think the investment would generate a return.

When is the last time you have been back to Cornell to speak with either students or staff? I think Martha Pollack is a very good administrator just not a good college president or leader. It's not just the football program right now as Martha Pollack has been a very divisive leader on campus. It's obvious among many of our students and staff they do not like Martha Pollack as she is not visible and does not show empathy. Cornell has had some great presidents, I just think Martha Pollack has been a very poor fit on the East Hill. I think our students deserve a president who brings more positive energy to the East Hill.

CAS
I’ve long believed it costs a lot to win,
but even more to lose. Cornell needs to invest much more in football (coaching salaries, facilities, etc.). I think the investment would generate a return.

What return would it show.

If you spend 10 million to fix a few things around the program. Where that money come back to ? There is no new TV money no bowl revenue.

Say we become the best in the ivies, what do we get a few thousand more in the stands it would take 50 yrs to get that 10 million back in real dollars.

The boosters drive the programs to succeed.. Even like hockey which generates real money doesn't get any support from the school.

Local Motion
When is the last time you have been back to Cornell to speak with either students or staff? I think Martha Pollack is a very good administrator just not a good college president or leader. It's not just the football program right now as Martha Pollack has been a very divisive leader on campus. It's obvious among many of our students and staff they do not like Martha Pollack as she is not visible and does not show empathy. Cornell has had some great presidents, I just think Martha Pollack has been a very poor fit on the East Hill. I think our students deserve a president who brings more positive energy to the East Hill.

And you base these pronouncements on what? How often have you spoken to Pollack? What student and staff surveys are you citing? Are you also constantly whining about Pollack under a different ID on Voy Forums?

I dont think Pollack is well liked on campus at all and its clear she has no love of sports.

Lot of talk about salaries. What does Archer make? What about the coordinators?

CU2007
Lot of talk about salaries. What does Archer make? What about the coordinators?

Also, a roster with 116 players. How much does it cost to outfit and coach this many players? How many players must we have? Do other Ivy teams have this many players?

CAS
During Pollack’s presidency, applications for admission & yield have reached new highs, & admit rates record lows. The last two years were the best fundraising years in Cornell’s history. And Cornell is planning to build the new indoor athletics facility.

Not to mention an additional building for Bowers CIS, new Brooks School of Public Policy and Atkinson Center for Sustainability. As much as I’d like to see a better football program, these are what elevate Cornell’s profile. While arguably President Pollack is no Frank Rhodes or David Skorton, as an undergrad and grad student on the hill, I don’t recall ever seeing Deane Mallott or Jim Perkins.

Hofher was a great coach and student of the game. I remember him as a young man, he's now 66!

I have said Archer should go for years. He is now in year 11 and we are guaranteed no better than .500 this year! How does one remain a coach for 11 years with not one .500+ season?

I was recruited by Musick and had the ill-fated George Seifert as my coach the last two years. He was canned after just those two years (a lot of BS politics were involved) and went on to coach at Stanford and the 49ers.
(I think he still holds the record for fastest NFL coach to 100 wins.) So how does Archer remain Head Coach? Somebody or some group just couldn't care less, I guess. If that is the case, then why continue the charade? JUst say we don't give a crap about football. Alumni are entitled to know the truth!

Clearly, Cornell is capable of having very competitive (even dominant) Ivy League teams. Do we have to go beyond Hockey or Lacrosse to prove this point? And good, competitive teams attract fans. You want a crowd? Just win baby!
Further, it's not like we don't have any talent. The Ivy League wins this year vs. Yale and Brown were not flukes. We have some talented players and they played well!

So it comes down to coaching, pure and simple. Seifert got only two years which was too short. Archer has had 11 with zero plus .500 seasons, In a word, that is ridiculous!

George64

CAS
During Pollack’s presidency, applications for admission & yield have reached new highs, & admit rates record lows. The last two years were the best fundraising years in Cornell’s history. And Cornell is planning to build the new indoor athletics facility.

Not to mention an additional building for Bowers CIS, new Brooks School of Public Policy and Atkinson Center for Sustainability. As much as I’d like to see a better football program, these are what elevate Cornell’s profile. While arguably President Pollack is no Frank Rhodes or David Skorton, as an undergrad and grad student on the hill, I don’t recall ever seeing Deane Mallott or Jim Perkins.

I saw Jim Perkins at the end of Parents' Weekend, 1968.

jmeaneyjr
Seifert got only two years which was too short. Archer has had 11 with zero plus .500 seasons, In a word, that is ridiculous!

I’ve always thought that Seifert was let go because Bob Blackman, who was very successful at Dartmouth, had a losing record at Illinois and became available. However, even he had a losing record at Cornell, but not at all comparable to Archer’s. Hopefully, new AD Nicki Moore will have less patience than Andy Noel, or Archer will see the handwriting on the wall and resign.

Swampy

George64

CAS
During Pollack’s presidency, applications for admission & yield have reached new highs, & admit rates record lows. The last two years were the best fundraising years in Cornell’s history. And Cornell is planning to build the new indoor athletics facility.

Not to mention an additional building for Bowers CIS, new Brooks School of Public Policy and Atkinson Center for Sustainability. As much as I’d like to see a better football program, these are what elevate Cornell’s profile. While arguably President Pollack is no Frank Rhodes or David Skorton, as an undergrad and grad student on the hill, I don’t recall ever seeing Deane Mallott or Jim Perkins.

I saw Jim Perkins at the end of Parents' Weekend, 1968.

Yes, I recall seeing a picture of him in the New York Times.

Perhaps, but there was a lot more going on and I never heard the Blackman angle at the time. Sadly, I think Noel kind of "mailed it in" for the last few years. The point is that the powers that be seem to be content with a persistent ineptitude. Winning feeds on itself and, unfortunately, losing does too!

I am confident our new AD Nicki Moore will address the football program at Cornell. She comes from Colgate where football has always be a priority in their athletic department, although they have also had issues with coaching turnover as of late.

Again, one of the biggest challenges Nicki Moore will have at Cornell is dealing with Martha Pollack, who since her arrival has made it clear athletics is not a priority for her administration. We can argue all we want, but Martha Pollack is probably the most AWOL and negative president Cornell has had in 50 years. She doesn't care about Ivy League sports and everyone in the athletic department knows that. Her ongoing delays of the new indoor practice facility have driven up the costs significantly as well.

Local Motion
I am confident our new AD Nicki Moore will address the football program at Cornell. She comes from Colgate where football has always be a priority in their athletic department, although they have also had issues with coaching turnover as of late.

Again, one of the biggest challenges Nicki Moore will have at Cornell is dealing with Martha Pollack, who since her arrival has made it clear athletics is not a priority for her administration. We can argue all we want, but Martha Pollack is probably the most AWOL and negative president Cornell has had in 50 years. She doesn't care about Ivy League sports and everyone in the athletic department knows that. Her ongoing delays of the new indoor practice facility have driven up the costs significantly as well.

Give it a rest with the Martha Pollock talk, it's tiresome. It's the job of the AD to hire and fire coaches.

Ken711.........look we can agree to disagree, but the reality in order for our new AD Nicki Moore to be successful she has to get support from the current administration. Andy Noel had been trying to get the new indoor practice facility built since former president Elizabeth Garrett gave it her blessing back in 2016. Andy wanted on campus and Pollack wanted two miles off campus on Game Farm Rd or what ever they call that place. Andy also fought hard to keep Hoy Field on campus, but Martha Pollack won that battle. Nothing happens on the East Hill without the support of Day Hall.

Local Motion
Ken711.........look we can agree to disagree, but the reality in order for our new AD Nicki Moore to be successful she has to get support from the current administration. Andy Noel had been trying to get the new indoor practice facility built since former president Elizabeth Garrett gave it her blessing back in 2016. Andy wanted on campus and Pollack wanted two miles off campus on Game Farm Rd or what ever they call that place. Andy also fought hard to keep Hoy Field on campus, but Martha Pollack won that battle. Nothing happens on the East Hill without the support of Day Hall.

Andy worked for five different presidents and delivered zero football titles. Maybe he should have cared about football.

Local Motion
Ken711.........look we can agree to disagree, but the reality in order for our new AD Nicki Moore to be successful she has to get support from the current administration. Andy Noel had been trying to get the new indoor practice facility built since former president Elizabeth Garrett gave it her blessing back in 2016. Andy wanted on campus and Pollack wanted two miles off campus on Game Farm Rd or what ever they call that place. Andy also fought hard to keep Hoy Field on campus, but Martha Pollack won that battle. Nothing happens on the East Hill without the support of Day Hall.

Then we can disagree. I know for a fact that Andy was in favor of a new baseball facility, as were the baseball coaches themselves. The decision on whether a coach is determined to be fired, does not come from Day Hall.

Chris '03

Local Motion
Ken711.........look we can agree to disagree, but the reality in order for our new AD Nicki Moore to be successful she has to get support from the current administration. Andy Noel had been trying to get the new indoor practice facility built since former president Elizabeth Garrett gave it her blessing back in 2016. Andy wanted on campus and Pollack wanted two miles off campus on Game Farm Rd or what ever they call that place. Andy also fought hard to keep Hoy Field on campus, but Martha Pollack won that battle. Nothing happens on the East Hill without the support of Day Hall.

Andy worked for five different presidents and delivered zero football titles. Maybe he should have cared about football.

BINGO!!!

Local Motion
Andy also fought hard to keep Hoy Field on campus, but Martha Pollack won that battle. Nothing happens on the East Hill without the support of Day Hall.

Cornell’s 2008 Master Plan proposes academic buildings on Hoy Field, so Andy was fighting an uphill battle.

the AD didnt care about sports at about the same level as the President does.. the 2 together make it a hard place to be successful.

Well, simply put, you can't expect an AD to cure a problem in her department without the support of the Prez. That's a BOT issue. Will they engage? We'll see...

Yeah, we could beat them. But after the game when parents congregate in the parking lot ... 911 caller: "There's a man with a gun at Joelton community, little league football. There's a guy. He has a gun.” This is football for 12-year-olds, not even old enough for N.I.L. rights, probably.

[Tennessee] Police investigate fight, alleged gun threat at Joelton youth football game

billhoward
Yeah, we could beat them. But after the game when parents congregate in the parking lot ... 911 caller: "There's a man with a gun at Joelton community, little league football. There's a guy. He has a gun.” This is football for 12-year-olds, not even old enough for N.I.L. rights, probably.

[Tennessee] Police investigate fight, alleged gun threat at Joelton youth football game

Bill, I say this with nothing but kindness in my heart...

what the hell does this have to do with Cornell football?

We already had to wade through as many Fire-Archer messages as comments about the games themselves. I just created a separate thread about Archer's history at Cornell and how he stacks up against past Cornell coaches as well as against other Ivy coaches with at least 5 years of Ivy coaching experience.

billhoward
We already had to wade through as many Fire-Archer messages as comments about the games themselves. I just created a separate thread about Archer's history at Cornell and how he stacks up against past Cornell coaches as well as against other Ivy coaches with at least 5 years of Ivy coaching experience.

If we go by such past experience, he's liable to get fired and then go on to win a few Super Bowls.

Swampy

billhoward
We already had to wade through as many Fire-Archer messages as comments about the games themselves. I just created a separate thread about Archer's history at Cornell and how he stacks up against past Cornell coaches as well as against other Ivy coaches with at least 5 years of Ivy coaching experience.

If we go by such past experience, he's liable to get fired and then go on to win a few Super Bowls.

Or be out of football like former fired HC Tim Pendergast.

I turned on the Dartmouth game, was unironically pleased we were not behind, and then realized only 21 seconds had elapsed.

Trotsky
I turned on the Dartmouth game, was unironically pleased we were not behind, and then realized only 21 seconds had elapsed.

You just needed to wait another five minutes.

7-0 Dartmouth on a drive which included surprise surprise another long pass (38 yards).

14-0 on another Dartmouth drive which included a 27 yard pass play.

Archer will keep his record of 10 straight years of losing seasons unblemished.

14-0 Green at end of first quarter. Back to hoops.

21-7 Dartmouth at the half.

A real chance at victory today, my friends.

Cornell's football PR staff doesn't have much to work with since they have to rely on Cornell's record under Archer when they publish the following highlights in the game notes for the Columbia game:

* A win over Columbia would improve the conference mark to three wins for the first time since 2019...(never achieved 4 wins or more in ten years at the helm)

* Be the 30th win for Archer.....(in ten years, an average of 2 wins per year)!

Cornell is a 1.5 point favorite at home vs
Columbia, who are 0-6 in Ivy play.