Men's Basketball 22-23

rss77
Cornell is not going to beat anyone not even Little Sisters of the Poor going 1 for 22 on field goals like it did in the second half-simple math. Colgate beat SU hitting a record number of 3s in the Dome and they were almost beat by Bryant. Cornell had open looks from 3 that were not going in-thus the game. Thought it was Cornell's best chance of beating them and just did not work out. The announcers for the ACC Network were horrible IMO. Liked what I saw of DJ Nix late in the game and hoping he gets some more playing time. Lehigh and Colgate coming up-Colgate will be tough-Head Coach Matt Langel has done an excellent job. What I like about Langel is that he shows no interest in moving up the proverbial coaching ladder (Million-dollar contracts but a lot less security).

Pretty much agree with all of that. Langel took over at Colgate in 2011. I like Earl, but wonder what would have happened if Cornell had hired Langel instead of Courtney. Can't imagine that one last season with Dunphy at Temple taught him that much more.

Agreed and a bit of irony in that Earl's offense is the type of offense Courtney tried to bring to Cornell. Courtney was a really nice guy but could not coach his way out of a paper bag.

mountainred

mountainred

Mr. Niss

We have two losses this year -- both by two points to two ACC teams. Man. We should jump 100 points in KenPom for this game.

The computers are going to love the offensive work, but hate the defense. Still, they had this as a 16 point loss, so there should be jump. Is this finally the year for a win at the Dome?

Guess not. Getting shots on the Syracuse zone is tough, but this team cannot take 48 3's and expect to beat anyone good. Especially if Watson and Boothby (who is going through some serious regression from last year) shoot a combined 2-17 from behind the arc.

Yeah, 1st stinker game from Watson. And Boothby’s shooting is becoming a concern. As also has been mentioned Ragland needs to stop shooting 3’s period.

Playing Lehigh in an early evening game. Currently the second half and Cornell is up 30 at 63-33.* Ragland really shouldn't shoot!

If you tune in now, ignore the screen that says 47-26. It stopped updating before I started watching.

Final Cornell 98 Lehigh 64.

Leading Scorers:

Dolan 16 points
Ragland 13 points
Watson 12 points
Williams 11 points

After the awful second half at Syracuse, it was good to see the team take of business against an overmatched opponent.

mountainred
After the awful second half at Syracuse, it was good to see the team take of business against an overmatched opponent.

Lehigh was pretty bad, but somehow they were leading Wisconsin of the half a week or so ago.

Women with a 7-point second quarter vs Penn State.

Is that good?

Trotsky
Women with a 7-point second quarter vs Penn State.

Is that good?

It's not ideal.

Seven-point second quarter certainly set the tenor for the game and the 31-point MOV.

"Penn State Lady Lions" sounds 1960s. Like back when the guards couldn't go past the mid-court line. Not sure "Lionesses" would be better.

The one diminutive that worked well was when Cornell freshmen played Syracuse pre-1980 and they were called (more by us than them) the Tangerines.

If anyone wants to watch the Colgate game today, it tips at 2pm. If 'gate is hitting their threes, they are pretty tough to beat (ask Syracuse), but it is a very winnable game if they aren't (losses to Penn and Delaware).

Hmmm…..line is gate -4.5. It’s tempting.

Nice job by the Colgate broadcast to go to commercial while Hansen is laying on the court not moving and not saying a word about how he's doing when they come back.

Cornell beats Colgate 91-80.

Those are good couple of bounce-back performances. First, they beat Lehigh way better than expected, like a top tier team would. And then they beat Colgate on the road by double digits. The Colgate broadcasters (laughably) referred to Colgate as "the best team in the region" (they're not better than Syracuse, sorry guys). I don't know what happened in the Dome other than that even the best teams that rely on so much outside shooting are going to have an off game or two, and we happened to stink the bed up in the one game that would have been amazing to win. This team is good and extremely well coached. They may be Ivy League champs good.

Really great first half, helped by Colgate struggling from the 3pt line, followed a slightly sloppy second half, helped by Colgate bouncing back on threes. The final three minutes were a slog, but there is lots of room for error with a seventeen point lead.

Dolan was terrific and got some deserved love from the Colgate announcers. And Nix got a few 1st half minutes, which was nice to see.

While I'd love to have another shot at BC, there are no complaints about being 9-3.

Mr. Niss
Those are good couple of bounce-back performances. First, they beat Lehigh way better than expected, like a top tier team would. And then they beat Colgate on the road by double digits. This team is good and extremely well coached. They may be Ivy League champs good.

Cornell may be time-to-steal-your-coach-away-to-a-mid-major good?

Mr. Niss
The Colgate broadcasters (laughably) referred to Colgate as "the best team in the region" (they're not better than Syracuse, sorry guys).

I've always felt Colgate has had a bit of a regional inferiority complex by the way they insist to be called 'Gate the way Syracuse is called 'Cuse.

RichH

Mr. Niss
The Colgate broadcasters (laughably) referred to Colgate as "the best team in the region" (they're not better than Syracuse, sorry guys).

I've always felt Colgate has had a bit of a regional inferiority complex by the way they insist to be called 'Gate the way Syracuse is called 'Cuse.

Almost cross-town inferiority. Hamilton College is 25 minutes away and Colgate's equal or better academically. (I know, sports matters more.) We'd do it, too, if 'Nell didn't start with a soft consonant. If we still had freshman teams, they'd be Little Nell. All these are minor infractions compared to the stylings of The Ohio State University.

Thought I would give folks a quick thumbnail on the league now that virtually every out of conference game has been played.

1) Yale (10-3) -- The computers have Yale as the clear league favorite as they are the only league team that is top 100 nationally in both offense and defense. Yale has a couple of nice wins, though nothing jaw-dropping, and all of the losses were on the road against legit opponents (at Colorado, Butler, Kentucky). Thrown in the the guy who is IMHO the best coach in the league (James Jones) and Yale is a virtual lock to the make the ILT.

2) Princeton (9-4) -- The computers love Princeton because they have several blowouts, but the resume looks thin to me. The best wins were at Drexel and at UMBC - meh - and the Tigers' losses don't look nearly as good as Yale's. Otherwise, this is a standard issue Princeton team which is efficient on offense and holds you to one shot on defense and has a couple of very sold bigs. Princeton does get to host the ILT this year, so they will be hard to beat if they make it. And they probably will make it.

3) Cornell (9-3) -- For context.

T4) Harvard (8-5) -- If you had a draft of every player in the Ivy League, Harvard's Senior forward Chris Ledlum probably gets taken first. Harvard also has two of the league's best wins (v. Loyola (Chi) and at Cal Irvine), but they also have a head-scratching loss to Howard. I'm not a huge fan of Amaker as a game coach, but his teams play good D and this year's squad follows that trend. If they start hitting their threes, they could be very dangerous, but right now they are 361st (out of 363) in 3pt shooting which is killing their offense. (So when you get frustrated at our guys, know it could be worse).

T4) Penn (6-7) -- The Quakers are the flip side of Harvard in that they have a very good offense (only Cornell's is more efficient) but their D sucks. Jr. guard Jordan Dingle is Penn's best weapon and maybe the best scorer in in the league. Penn has four losses to top 100 teams, a couple of nice wins against Colgate and Temple and a "how did they blow that" home loss to LaSalle.

6) Brown (7-5) -- The Bears lost a number of very good players to graduation, but Mike Martin (another very good coach) does get stud PG Lily back. Brown started the season 1-4, but they've won 6 of their last 7, with the only loss being at Michigan St. Brown has been even better than Princeton at holding teams to one shot, but they struggle to score which is highlighted by currently being the worst FT shooting team in the nation. Sweeping Brown will go a long way to making the ILT, but the Bears will turn both games in rock fights.

7) Dartmouth (4-10) -- The Big Green lost four outstanding players to graduation and have not replaced them. Dartmouth has only 2 D1 wins, but believe it or not their women's team is even worse. Cornell opens league play at Hanover and has to avoid the North Country jinx.

8) Columbia (5-9) -- The Lions were a 4-22 disaster last season and have basically rebooted the entire team. This year's top six features a junior, a sophomore, and four freshman. The season started rough, but their last game was a 12 point win at Lafayette. The Leopards aren't good, but they gave our guys a good scare and took Penn to OT. I would not be surprised if by the end of the season, Columbia will be playing spoiler (and with the new schedule, Cornell's regular season ends with hosting the Lions).

With the ILT, what matters is finishing in the top 4 since no one is getting an at-large bid. Pencil in Yale, so you likely have four teams (Princeton, Cornell, Penn, Harvard) fighting for the other three slots, with Brown having an outside shot. Dartmouth and Columbia are purely playing spoiler.

mountainred
Thought I would give folks a quick thumbnail on the league now that virtually every out of conference game has been played.

1) Yale (10-3) -- The computers have Yale as the clear league favorite as they are the only league team that is top 100 nationally in both offense and defense. Yale has a couple of nice wins, though nothing jaw-dropping, and all of the losses were on the road against legit opponents (at Colorado, Butler, Kentucky). Thrown in the the guy who is IMHO the best coach in the league (James Jones) and Yale is a virtual lock to the make the ILT.

2) Princeton (9-4) -- The computers love Princeton because they have several blowouts, but the resume looks thin to me. The best wins were at Drexel and at UMBC - meh - and the Tigers' losses don't look nearly as good as Yale's. Otherwise, this is a standard issue Princeton team which is efficient on offense and holds you to one shot on defense and has a couple of very sold bigs. Princeton does get to host the ILT this year, so they will be hard to beat if they make it. And they probably will make it.

3) Cornell (9-3) -- For context.

T4) Harvard (8-5) -- If you had a draft of every player in the Ivy League, Harvard's Senior forward Chris Ledlum probably gets taken first. Harvard also has two of the league's best wins (v. Loyola (Chi) and at Cal Irvine), but they also have a head-scratching loss to Howard. I'm not a huge fan of Amaker as a game coach, but his teams play good D and this year's squad follows that trend. If they start hitting their threes, they could be very dangerous, but right now they are 361st (out of 363) in 3pt shooting which is killing their offense. (So when you get frustrated at our guys, know it could be worse).

T4) Penn (6-7) -- The Quakers are the flip side of Harvard in that they have a very good offense (only Cornell's is more efficient) but their D sucks. Jr. guard Jordan Dingle is Penn's best weapon and maybe the best scorer in in the league. Penn has four losses to top 100 teams, a couple of nice wins against Colgate and Temple and a "how did they blow that" home loss to LaSalle.

6) Brown (7-5) -- The Bears lost a number of very good players to graduation, but Mike Martin (another very good coach) does get stud PG Lily back. Brown started the season 1-4, but they've won 6 of their last 7, with the only loss being at Michigan St. Brown has been even better than Princeton at holding teams to one shot, but they struggle to score which is highlighted by currently being the worst FT shooting team in the nation. Sweeping Brown will go a long way to making the ILT, but the Bears will turn both games in rock fights.

7) Dartmouth (4-10) -- The Big Green lost four outstanding players to graduation and have not replaced them. Dartmouth has only 2 D1 wins, but believe it or not their women's team is even worse. Cornell opens league play at Hanover and has to avoid the North Country jinx.

8) Columbia (5-9) -- The Lions were a 4-22 disaster last season and have basically rebooted the entire team. This year's top six features a junior, a sophomore, and four freshman. The season started rough, but their last game was a 12 point win at Lafayette. The Leopards aren't good, but they gave our guys a good scare and took Penn to OT. I would not be surprised if by the end of the season, Columbia will be playing spoiler (and with the new schedule, Cornell's regular season ends with hosting the Lions).

With the ILT, what matters is finishing in the top 4 since no one is getting an at-large bid. Pencil in Yale, so you likely have four teams (Princeton, Cornell, Penn, Harvard) fighting for the other three slots, with Brown having an outside shot. Dartmouth and Columbia are purely playing spoiler.

Nice analysis. I agree Princeton seems overrated to me, as I think Penn is a more dangerous team, and certainly one we haven’t matched-up with as well the past several years. Harvard’s an enigma, and Brown is a sleeper, primarily because Lilly is so talented. No reason we won’t be in the running for the ILT, although given the parity across the league I think only Yale is a lock to make it.

scoop85

mountainred
Thought I would give folks a quick thumbnail on the league now that virtually every out of conference game has been played.

1) Yale (10-3) -- The computers have Yale as the clear league favorite as they are the only league team that is top 100 nationally in both offense and defense. Yale has a couple of nice wins, though nothing jaw-dropping, and all of the losses were on the road against legit opponents (at Colorado, Butler, Kentucky). Thrown in the the guy who is IMHO the best coach in the league (James Jones) and Yale is a virtual lock to the make the ILT.

2) Princeton (9-4) -- The computers love Princeton because they have several blowouts, but the resume looks thin to me. The best wins were at Drexel and at UMBC - meh - and the Tigers' losses don't look nearly as good as Yale's. Otherwise, this is a standard issue Princeton team which is efficient on offense and holds you to one shot on defense and has a couple of very sold bigs. Princeton does get to host the ILT this year, so they will be hard to beat if they make it. And they probably will make it.

3) Cornell (9-3) -- For context.

T4) Harvard (8-5) -- If you had a draft of every player in the Ivy League, Harvard's Senior forward Chris Ledlum probably gets taken first. Harvard also has two of the league's best wins (v. Loyola (Chi) and at Cal Irvine), but they also have a head-scratching loss to Howard. I'm not a huge fan of Amaker as a game coach, but his teams play good D and this year's squad follows that trend. If they start hitting their threes, they could be very dangerous, but right now they are 361st (out of 363) in 3pt shooting which is killing their offense. (So when you get frustrated at our guys, know it could be worse).

T4) Penn (6-7) -- The Quakers are the flip side of Harvard in that they have a very good offense (only Cornell's is more efficient) but their D sucks. Jr. guard Jordan Dingle is Penn's best weapon and maybe the best scorer in in the league. Penn has four losses to top 100 teams, a couple of nice wins against Colgate and Temple and a "how did they blow that" home loss to LaSalle.

6) Brown (7-5) -- The Bears lost a number of very good players to graduation, but Mike Martin (another very good coach) does get stud PG Lily back. Brown started the season 1-4, but they've won 6 of their last 7, with the only loss being at Michigan St. Brown has been even better than Princeton at holding teams to one shot, but they struggle to score which is highlighted by currently being the worst FT shooting team in the nation. Sweeping Brown will go a long way to making the ILT, but the Bears will turn both games in rock fights.

7) Dartmouth (4-10) -- The Big Green lost four outstanding players to graduation and have not replaced them. Dartmouth has only 2 D1 wins, but believe it or not their women's team is even worse. Cornell opens league play at Hanover and has to avoid the North Country jinx.

8) Columbia (5-9) -- The Lions were a 4-22 disaster last season and have basically rebooted the entire team. This year's top six features a junior, a sophomore, and four freshman. The season started rough, but their last game was a 12 point win at Lafayette. The Leopards aren't good, but they gave our guys a good scare and took Penn to OT. I would not be surprised if by the end of the season, Columbia will be playing spoiler (and with the new schedule, Cornell's regular season ends with hosting the Lions).

With the ILT, what matters is finishing in the top 4 since no one is getting an at-large bid. Pencil in Yale, so you likely have four teams (Princeton, Cornell, Penn, Harvard) fighting for the other three slots, with Brown having an outside shot. Dartmouth and Columbia are purely playing spoiler.

Nice analysis. I agree Princeton seems overrated to me, as I think Penn is a more dangerous team, and certainly one we haven’t matched-up with as well the past several years. Harvard’s an enigma, and Brown is a sleeper, primarily because Lilly is so talented. No reason we won’t be in the running for the ILT, although given the parity across the league I think only Yale is a lock to make it.

thx guys. so mad that we don't have 2 ACC wins in the resume!

RichH

Mr. Niss
The Colgate broadcasters (laughably) referred to Colgate as "the best team in the region" (they're not better than Syracuse, sorry guys).

I've always felt Colgate has had a bit of a regional inferiority complex by the way they insist to be called 'Gate the way Syracuse is called 'Cuse.

But is there a Swinging Cuses?

Presumable there is an alumnae Excuses.

Scoop, completely agree we should be in the running for a spot in the IOLT and frankly I'd be disappointed if this team didn't make it.

Bill, based on his resume there is a chance that Earl is an Ivy League lifer, though he would almost certainly bolt for the Princeton job when it opens up.

mountainred
... based on his resume there is a chance that Earl is an Ivy League lifer, though he would almost certainly bolt for the Princeton job when it opens up.

Exactly and exactly squared.

Part of the equation for jumping to the next level is setting up yourself and your family for lifetime security. When Steve Donahue left Cornell basketball and the 2010 Sweet 16 appearance for BC, he went from Cornell's sub-$200,000 (closer to say $150,000) to about $900,000, and even when he was dismissed after year three of his six-year contract, he got at least one annual BC payout of $600,000 plus.

Within the Ivy League, you have alumni athletes on Wall Street who can help steer a coach's investments. Maybe Coach can salt away enough that after 10 years of Ivy or better coaching, you could invest wisely, then draw down a quarter-million a year and not touch the principal. That's not obscenely rich but it's second-home-in-Naples (Fla.) and your kids' education paid for rich.

Remember that we got ten years from Steve Donahue. This is Earl's sixth year, last year was his first winning year, plus a near-.500 year in year three. He's mid-40s now.

He could also jump to a lesser (academics) school for much more money. Shaheen Holloway was making $300,000 at St. Peter's, took a Covid-era pay cut, made the Sweet Sixteen in the spring, and jumped to Seton Hall and $2.4 million.

Aside (thread drift alert): The Donahue salary info was reported by The Heights, BC's Cornell Daily Sun. Read this about hockey coach Jerry York circa 2015-2016. [www.bcheights.com].

The Heights
The biggest jump in compensation went to men’s hockey head coach Jerry York, who signed a contract extension in December 2013 that kicked in after 2013-14 and will last until the 2019-20 season. York earned a base salary of $491,259, yet received $677,311 in “other reportable compensation.” That, combined with other figures, led to a final total of $1,249,617. That total represents a 100 percent increase from his 2013-14 compensation of $626,953.

This message made me think "Ivy coaches have been pretty steady lately." The last coaches hired were Earl, Engles at Columbia and McLaughlin at Dartmouth before the '16-17 season. Penn hired Steve the season before and everyone else has over a decade of tenure (James Jones has been at Yale for over twenty years). That is crazy. Since 2010, there have been only five coaches fired (or non-renewed) in the league. Two of those were at Penn, a school that values hoops at a different level than any other Ivy. None of the five was a huge surprise.

Earl seems to have found his groove and his own version of the Princeton offense. I wouldn't blame him if he wants to test his ability -- and get a bigger paycheck -- somewhere else. He played with and coached under Sydney Johnson, who left Princeton for eight mediocre years at Fairfield and is now back to being an assistant. Maybe Earl decides the safe option at Cornell is better for his family.

mountainred
This message made me think "Ivy coaches have been pretty steady lately." The last coaches hired were Earl, Engles at Columbia and McLaughlin at Dartmouth before the '16-17 season. Penn hired Steve the season before and everyone else has over a decade of tenure (James Jones has been at Yale for over twenty years). That is crazy. Since 2010, there have been only five coaches fired (or non-renewed) in the league. Two of those were at Penn, a school that values hoops at a different level than any other Ivy. None of the five was a huge surprise.

Earl seems to have found his groove and his own version of the Princeton offense. I wouldn't blame him if he wants to test his ability -- and get a bigger paycheck -- somewhere else. He played with and coached under Sydney Johnson, who left Princeton for eight mediocre years at Fairfield and is now back to being an assistant. Maybe Earl decides the safe option at Cornell is better for his family.

Does anyone know the kind of work his spouse does and the ages of their kids, if any? Moving K-12 kids is more difficult than preschoolers or college-age. A partner-in-a-law-firm-or-medical-practice spouse may be harder to move than, say, one who coaches women's volleyball.

Swampy

Does anyone know the kind of work his spouse does and the ages of their kids, if any? Moving K-12 kids is more difficult than preschoolers or college-age. A partner-in-a-law-firm-or-medical-practice spouse may be harder to move than, say, one who coaches women's volleyball.

Earl and his wife Jennifer have three sons, Dylan (8), Owen (6) and Cooper (5) and reside in Ithaca.
.

George64
Earl and his wife Jennifer have three sons, Dylan (8), Owen (6) and Cooper (5) and reside in Ithaca.

And Ithaca schools are a pretty fair matchup for Princeton's, if not quite Lawrenceville Prep and Princeton Day.

Perfunctory win over Binghamton, 86-70.

I have to admit, I have no idea how to feel about this team. I can still remember the feeling of momentum going into the 2007-2008 year, and we all know how that eventually turned out. Last year was such an abrupt about face from Earl's previous results, and this year seems to be similarly promising, but is the style too gimmicky? Is this the start of something that can be built on with more and better recruiting, or just the natural result of playing a somewhat unique style that will never afford the ceiling of that golden generation of Cornell basketball? I could believe either outcome.

A bit sloppy late, but the Big Red close the out of conference slate with an 86-70 win over Bingo. Williams with a career high of 23 and Manon was very solid with 16 points and 7 steals. Freshman Josh Baldwin earned quality minutes as the 10th man. This was a 20 point game with 12 minutes to go, so Cornell was in control almost the entire way.

On the down side, Boothby's shooting slump continues and he's starting to force things. And Ragland took a hard fall late and never returned -- though it could have been precautionary because of the double digit lead.

On defense the guys forced 20 turnovers, but Binghamton shot 27 of 41 from inside the arc because if there wasn't a steal they got a very good look at the hoop. That's an astounding number.

Ivy play starts Sunday at Dartmouth.

semsox
Perfunctory win over Binghamton, 86-70.

I have to admit, I have no idea how to feel about this team. I can still remember the feeling of momentum going into the 2007-2008 year, and we all know how that eventually turned out. Last year was such an abrupt about face from Earl's previous results, and this year seems to be similarly promising, but is the style too gimmicky? Is this the start of something that can be built on with more and better recruiting, or just the natural result of playing a somewhat unique style that will never afford the ceiling of that golden generation of Cornell basketball? I could believe either outcome.

IMHO this style is creative, but not really gimmicky -- it's just an uptempo version of the Princeton offense with a ball-hawking D. If Earl stays, it should differentiate us and be appealing for recruits. The ceiling is probably "be an ILT regular, win the league occasionally and maybe steal an NCAA win, while being fun to watch." Which is probably the best you can do in this league. Remember, that 2010 team is the only Ivy squad to make the sweet 16 in over four decades; that's just not a realistic expectation, as great as it would be.

mountainred

semsox
Perfunctory win over Binghamton, 86-70.

I have to admit, I have no idea how to feel about this team. I can still remember the feeling of momentum going into the 2007-2008 year, and we all know how that eventually turned out. Last year was such an abrupt about face from Earl's previous results, and this year seems to be similarly promising, but is the style too gimmicky? Is this the start of something that can be built on with more and better recruiting, or just the natural result of playing a somewhat unique style that will never afford the ceiling of that golden generation of Cornell basketball? I could believe either outcome.

IMHO this style is creative, but not really gimmicky -- it's just an uptempo version of the Princeton offense with a ball-hawking D. If Earl stays, it should differentiate us and be appealing for recruits. The ceiling is probably "be an ILT regular, win the league occasionally and maybe steal an NCAA win, while being fun to watch." Which is probably the best you can do in this league. Remember, that 2010 team is the only Ivy squad to make the sweet 16 in over four decades; that's just not a realistic expectation, as great as it would be.

That's all fair, and believe me, I understand the 2010 team is not a realistic benchmark. I guess my main wonder though is the bolded. To me, those three outcomes (ILT participants, ILT champs, NCAA W) are radically different for assessing the team, particularly with respect to ceiling. I guess what I'm ultimately getting at is, is the the ultimately ceiling of Earl's team a realistic expectation of an NCAA W (not even expecting two W's like in 2010), or is it the 2008 or 2009 squads, excellent Ivy League teams that were clearly a notch below their eventual NCAA matchup, or is it even lower than that, good Ivy League teams that due to their style could surprise and win 2 games in a weekend and become tournament fodder for whatever 15-2 or 14-3 seed matchup they get.

(All of the above is meant in the context of true talent, not accounting for any wild variance Virginia-UMBC outcomes)

semsox

I guess what I'm ultimately getting at is, is the the ultimately ceiling of Earl's team a realistic expectation of an NCAA W (not even expecting two W's like in 2010), or is it the 2008 or 2009 squads, excellent Ivy League teams that were clearly a notch below their eventual NCAA matchup, or is it even lower than that, good Ivy League teams that due to their style could surprise and win 2 games in a weekend and become tournament fodder for whatever 15-2 or 14-3 seed matchup they get.

Most years would be your third option - a good team that could get hot at the ILT, but I could see a likely ceiling of a league title and a trip to the NCAAs as a 13 or 14 seed(as opposed to a sacrificial 16). In terms of the entire NCAA, this system should reasonably result in a team that bounces around in the second quartile (teams 90-180) and peaks every so often in the 70s (give or take).

For context, the current team is in the 2Q, as was the '08 and '09 team. 2010 was top 50.

semsox

mountainred

semsox
Perfunctory win over Binghamton, 86-70.

I have to admit, I have no idea how to feel about this team. I can still remember the feeling of momentum going into the 2007-2008 year, and we all know how that eventually turned out. Last year was such an abrupt about face from Earl's previous results, and this year seems to be similarly promising, but is the style too gimmicky? Is this the start of something that can be built on with more and better recruiting, or just the natural result of playing a somewhat unique style that will never afford the ceiling of that golden generation of Cornell basketball? I could believe either outcome.

IMHO this style is creative, but not really gimmicky -- it's just an uptempo version of the Princeton offense with a ball-hawking D. If Earl stays, it should differentiate us and be appealing for recruits. The ceiling is probably "be an ILT regular, win the league occasionally and maybe steal an NCAA win, while being fun to watch." Which is probably the best you can do in this league. Remember, that 2010 team is the only Ivy squad to make the sweet 16 in over four decades; that's just not a realistic expectation, as great as it would be.

That's all fair, and believe me, I understand the 2010 team is not a realistic benchmark. I guess my main wonder though is the bolded. To me, those three outcomes (ILT participants, ILT champs, NCAA W) are radically different for assessing the team, particularly with respect to ceiling. I guess what I'm ultimately getting at is, is the the ultimately ceiling of Earl's team a realistic expectation of an NCAA W (not even expecting two W's like in 2010), or is it the 2008 or 2009 squads, excellent Ivy League teams that were clearly a notch below their eventual NCAA matchup, or is it even lower than that, good Ivy League teams that due to their style could surprise and win 2 games in a weekend and become tournament fodder for whatever 15-2 or 14-3 seed matchup they get.

(All of the above is meant in the context of true talent, not accounting for any wild variance Virginia-UMBC outcomes)

I'd think this style makes an NCAA game win more probable than many other systems. "All" it takes is one of those nights where shooters are hotter than usual across the board. Feels like shooting the lights out with this style is much more likely to generate a W than a more plodding style would at the same shooting percentage.

To semsox's questions, Earl's interview in the Syracuse paper (posted earlier in this thread) addresses a lot of them. It's been a few weeks since I read it, but my recollection is that he talks about switching to this system because he realized he already had players on the team with the skill/ability to run it. He further noted that it's a recruiting advantage because players enjoy this style and it gives everyone a lot more touches than more traditional offenses (and probably ups ppg for most players?)

And iirc, said something like "it's the system lots of teams would love to sell recruits, but there aren't that many that actually commit to and successfully run."

The Ivy League regular season is already off to an exciting start with Columbia upsetting preseason favorite Yale in the opening game.

dbilmes
The Ivy League regular season is already off to an exciting start with Columbia upsetting preseason favorite Yale in the opening game.

Yeah, that’s a stunner.

considering who Col. had played thats a surprising score,

And the Big Red join Princeton and Columbia in first place. Ho-hum 74-63 win at Dartmouth, but games in Hanover are never automatic. Cornell had a 21-11 advantage on points off turnovers, which was the difference in the game.

Penn/Princ/Yale in a row at home. Big stretch.

Comfortable W over Penn, and in another shocker, Yale loses again, at home, to Dartmouth?

so far cornell/princ look to be the 2 best.. we see for now tomorrow night

Great win over a team that’s had our number. And where did Kiachian come from? He’s barely played before tonight and gets some big minutes in a key league game

655!? That's awful.

ugarte
655!? That's awful.

Is it typically higher during the break?

Iceberg

ugarte
655!? That's awful.

Is it typically higher during the break?

if it's still the break, nvm.

going to get to see them in person on mlk day in nyc and i'm looking forward to it now.

ugarte

Iceberg

ugarte
655!? That's awful.

Is it typically higher during the break?

if it's still the break, nvm.

going to get to see them in person on mlk day in nyc and i'm looking forward to it now.

Classes resume January 23. [events.cornell.edu] There is a Winter Session in progress, but it's quite limited. [sce.cornell.edu]

well cornell is fav by 3 tonight.. so some people give us a chance.

A series of tough calls late in the 2nd went against them and they fail to hold on

the first was up 5 nolan with the steal gets under cut gathering the ball and it turns into a cornell foul 1n1 and the lead shrinks

the 2nd was up 1 get the turnover and the foul shooting a 1n1. but the ref comes in from mid court with a T on something that happens 10x a game and now its 2 FSs for Princ then we miss the 1n1 and instead of up 3 its down 1

the 3rd being whatever the late shot was that came up 5 ft short that everyone thought was tipped but the replay wasnt clear enough to tell..
all in all played well for most of the game but couldnt handle the lead down the stretch,and missed simple layout with under 2 to go that would have kept the game in doubt

posted this elsewhere but heads up if you had 2pm on your calendar for the Columbia game on Monday; it's been moved to noon.

Computers list Cornell as a one (KenPom) to three (T-Page) favorite tonight. Yale's offense has been sputtering a bit; their only Ivy win so far was a 58-54 rockfight with Harvard.

mountainred
Computers list Cornell as a one (KenPom) to three (T-Page) favorite tonight. Yale's offense has been sputtering a bit; their only Ivy win so far was a 58-54 rockfight with Harvard.

FYI, just noticed that today's game is a 5 p.m. start (on ESPNU), for anyone who was planning to watch.

mountainred
Computers list Cornell as a one (KenPom) to three (T-Page) favorite tonight. Yale's offense has been sputtering a bit; their only Ivy win so far was a 58-54 rockfight with Harvard.

Pretty huge game, especially considering it is at home. If we come out of this 4 game opening stretch 3-1 we'll be in pretty solid position.

why is the game at 5pm ? are they trying to make it harder for locals to show up?

I see cornell is a slight dog tonight. strange since we were favored vs Penn and Yale playing down more than expected. Dang those pesky NYS gambling laws

upprdeck
why is the game at 5pm ? are they trying to make it harder for locals to show up?

Because ESPN insisted. Gotta have Eastern Michigan at Akron on in prime time.

upprdeck
why is the game at 5pm ? are they trying to make it harder for locals to show up?

Airing on ESPNU, not just +.

Don't know if it's Yale's D but the Cornell shooting (inside, outside) has been dreadful while Yale has been hitting (or hitting the offensive glass, then hitting). Cornell down 9 late in the first half.

Yale had probably 5 bad possessions where shots just went in and early cornell had 3-4 go in and out.. Cornell hung around even with Yale shooting close to 60% the first half. At least down 6 its still a winnable game . Yale seemed out of control but almost always ended up in the basket

upprdeck
Yale had probably 5 bad possessions where shots just went in and early cornell had 3-4 go in and out.. Cornell hung around even with Yale shooting close to 60% the first half. At least down 6 its still a winnable game . Yale seemed out of control but almost always ended up in the basket

agreed. i was starting to lose it watching some of those shots go down.

that foul with 4 minutes to go is as bad as it gets for a ref

Came out cold and went down 15 then went nuts. Currently up by 4 but a TERRIBLE foul call on a clean block on a 3 has Yale about to shoot 3 with ~4 minutes to go.

upprdeck
that foul with 4 minutes to go is as bad as it gets for a ref

at least he missed one. but yeesh. totally clean and even got kicked.

Mbeng maybe gets called on a makeup whistle on the other end then called for a charge and now he's gone. Cornell up 7 with 2:30 to go.

played a great last 10 min.. makes up for the penn finish, now take of business vs Col monday

upprdeck
played a great last 10 min.. makes up for the penn finish, now take of business vs Col monday

I'll make sure they do if I have to grab a clipboard.

94-82 final. Once Cornell started rolling the wheels completely came off for Yale.

A 41-12 run over the last 12 minutes. 10 for 11 from the field, 17-18 from the stripe in that run. Close to perfect basketball for that run.

and yale still shot almost 60% but going 31-34 fts helps

upprdeck
and yale still shot almost 60% but going 31-34 fts helps

Earlier this season the FT shooting was a real concern. Today the team was about as good from the stripe as you can get.

And how about Nazir Williams with 27 points after going scoreless against Princeton? He’s got a lot of ability and will be All-Ivy if he can play with consistency.

upprdeck
and yale still shot almost 60% but going 31-34 fts helps

If you don't turn the ball over against Cornell, you will get a good shot. But that is easier said than done, which is why Cornell had a 17-7 advantage on points off turnovers.

With today's results in, Cornell and Princeton are 3-1, Brown, Harvard, Dartmouth and Penn are 2-2, Yale and Columbia are 1-3.

mountainred
With today's results in, Cornell and Princeton are 3-1, Brown, Harvard, Dartmouth and Penn are 2-2, Yale and Columbia are 1-3.

In other words, par for the course for the Ivies over the past decade.

KenPom breaks its ratings down for just league games. Small sample size alerts in place.

The offense is the league's best thanks to being the best three point shooting team in the league (despite Ragland's efforts) and the best free throw shooting team (over 80%!). Plus the second lowest turnover rate.

The defense is the league's third best. This is a function of forcing turnovers on roughly a quarter of the opponent's possessions. If the Big Red don't turn you over, you will get a good shot, as league opponents are hitting a staggering two thirds of their shots inside the arc. But so far the trade off is working.

I know I'm pretty late to be asking this question (haven't had a reason to pay much attention to the team in the last few years) but when/why did Ivy League teams stop playing league games every Friday and Saturday? The only "traditional" weekends I see on Cornell's schedule this season are vs Penn/Princeton, at Princeton/Penn and vs Dartmouth/Harvard. Pandemic holdover?

Decision was announced in January 2020 and was to begin with 2020-21 season.

[ivyleague.com]

surprised to see CU such a big Fav today on the road.

Great first 15 min.. bad last 5 of the half.. Then a real solid 2nd half for an easy rd win

Hoopsters take care of business in NYC, blasting Columbia 102-85. Six double figure scorers for Cornell, with 12 Big Red players getting on the scoresheet.

This team is definitely fun to watch.

Most points they ever scored against Columbia.

Not sure if I've ever seen a team get killed on the offensive glass like Cornell was today and still cruise to a 20 point win (it was 99-77 when the deep bench went in). 22 turnovers fixes a lot.

mountainred
Not sure if I've ever seen a team get killed on the offensive glass like Cornell was today and still cruise to a 20 point win (it was 99-77 when the deep bench went in). 22 turnovers fixes a lot.

very satisfying

New schedule is so weird. Harvard tomorrow at 2.

mountainred
With today's results in, Cornell and Princeton are 3-1...

Didn't even catch until looking at the standings that Princeton blew an 8 point halftime lead against Brown and then came back here to see that it had been noted (generally). Excellent.

ugarte
New schedule is so weird. Harvard tomorrow at 2.

mountainred
With today's results in, Cornell and Princeton are 3-1...

Didn't even catch until looking at the standings that Princeton blew an 8 point halftime lead against Brown and then came back here to see that it had been noted (generally). Excellent.

I will say, it's definitely worth pulling up the replay of the last 5 or so in-game minutes of that Princeton-Brown game. Some wild shotmaking on both sides.

I'll be at the Harvard game today, hoping for the good guys to get another road W.

semsox

I'll be at the Harvard game today, hoping for the good guys to get another road W.

blech. Great run to tie it up in the second half with trapping D and good looks but then the shooters went cold and Harvard hit some nice shots with the shot clock running out. 95-89 bad guys.

ugarte

semsox

I'll be at the Harvard game today, hoping for the good guys to get another road W.

blech. Great run to tie it up in the second half with trapping D and good looks but then the shooters went cold and Harvard hit some nice shots with the shot clock running out. 95-89 bad guys.

Yup. Not much to add here. I would have liked to see us employ the trap a bit more, as it seems whatever normal defensive scheme we were running was ineffective. Near the end of the game, Harvard made shots and we missed shots. So it goes sometimes. I did still like that we kept making shots. This could have easily ended up as a 10+ point margin of defeat given the way the final few minutes played out.

Nice win 80-73 over brown. Shots just weren’t falling in the first half and once that started going our way we took advantage. I don’t know how coach earl hasn’t made Ragland stop shooting threes by now, it’s getting egregious.

chimpfood
Nice win 80-73 over brown. Shots just weren’t falling in the first half and once that started going our way we took advantage. I don’t know how coach earl hasn’t made Ragland stop shooting threes by now, it’s getting egregious.

I guess he must hit them in practice, and Earl hopes he can figure out how to do it in the games. Otherwise, no excuse.

he shot almost 40% last yr so he probably thinks he can make more. he also probably the most talented FW on the team so they want him to make his plays.

upprdeck
he shot almost 40% last yr so he probably thinks he can make more. he also probably the most talented FW on the team so they want him to make his plays.

and he's left open to take them a lot

Another thing to note is that we were without Nasir Williams today. He had no visible casts or braces on the sideline and I even saw him job a few times so hopefully we have him back next week for a very difficult princeton/Penn away weekend.

With Princeton going down, we're again tied with them at the top of the league at 5-2. Yale, after a surprising 1-3 start in league play is tied for 3rd at 4-3 with a perhaps equally surprising Dartmouth.

you can see a path where just winning our home games to get to 8-6 is likely enough to get to the IVY playoffs. They are so bunched up I dont see how more than 4 teams can get above 8 wins now.

cornell - Princ for first place tonight

Yale burying harvard right now.

had things worked out tonight there was a chance for a 5 way tie for 3rd.

26-12 run to close first half puts Cornell up 45-35 at the half.

This game at least deserves posting the half time score.
Cornell 45, Princeton 35, at the half

djk26
This game at least deserves posting the half time score.
Cornell 45, Princeton 35, at the half

It was. P now up by 5 with 8 minutes left.

Al DeFlorio

djk26
This game at least deserves posting the half time score.
Cornell 45, Princeton 35, at the half

It was. P now up by 5 with 8 minutes left.

P by 7. stg the rim that cornell was shooting at in the second half was off. everything was rattling in and out. manon looked great but he couldn't do it alone.

what happened to nazir? he didn't play against brown either.

cant shoot 25% from 3 against a team that can shoot 3s and then also struggle on Fts.

Just setting the stage for beating Princeton on their home floor in the ILT. Pretty tough to beat a team three times in the same season, right? Right???

In all seriousness though, I do admire the resolve of this team. It looked like the game was going to get out of hand with about 5 minutes left, but they really did force Princeton to keep making shots and playing through. Unfortunately the terrible continuation call with under a minute left ended the game.