Cornell lacrosse 2023

if they dont the ticket system fixed it could be fun as they scramble on how to get people in to watch.

Going to be another interesting weather game for the boys today.. Snowing pretty hard in some spots and may snow for a while yet with the wrap around snow bands.

Offense doing nothing. Several dumb skip passes.

Very frustrating half so far, but defense holding strong. Offense needs to pass the ball around. Too much isolated initiation.

PSU is doing a good job of shutting down CJ, which is part of our offensive problem.

dag14
PSU is doing a good job of shutting down CJ, which is part of our offensive problem.

The problem is there aren't enough other options.

Strange management of that final 30 seconds of the third.

Keep throwing it away

Horrid offensive performance, while the D and especially Ierlan have been excellent. 8 minutes to try to salvage the game.

No problem with the D. the problem there was the 2-3 complete breakdowns for easy goals and still held them to 10 or so which is fine

The offense.. poor shooting. some just awful passing and the inability to handle the doubles to find anyone open.

upprdeck
No problem with the D. the problem there was the 2-3 complete breakdowns for easy goals and still held them to 10 or so which is fine

The offense.. poor shooting. some just awful passing and the inability to handle the doubles to find anyone open.

Shame to waste a fantastic performance by Ierlan, who not only had a career high in saves but made a lot of tough saves.

Offense was completely stymied without Long. 1st line middies are largely ineffective, and Blake still seems limited by his knee. No easier next week in New Haven. Hopefully Long is able to return and we hit the reset button.

Too many passes to no one on offense and inability of the team to beat anyone man on man..

The offense today reminded be of the Kerwick years. No strategy, no focus, no concentration of attack. Pointless poor passing around the perimeter with no evidence of a game plan or pre-conceived evidence of any real game management. Buzek needs to regroup this week big time or bad days are ahead. Krist cannot be the only option

for anyone curious penn state won 10-6

I missed the game today because I went to see another game. Looks like a good game to miss. I will say that Cornell lost 5 games last year and went to the championship game. A game like this will help the coaches highlight where the Big Red need to improve to make a run the final four. It's no fun losing, but it's almost as important how a team responds.

I'll post the same thing I posted in lax forum, because I am still frustrated:

What a frustrating game. I think it was easy enough to look past the offensive limitations in the previous games where we came out on top, but no more. If we fancy this team as serious contenders in late May, the offense needs to be better and more efficient, period. While I understand the attack is in flux with Long's absence, I do not think Piatelli is bringing enough to that unit currently, and would like to see others get a run. At the midfield, I really think Kelleher and Blake need to be split up. Blake is clearly not the player he was at the beginning of last season, and the manner in which they seem to be engaging the offense is redundant on the first line, and I think we'd be better served if they were split up.

That said, I said in a previous post that all that matters is continuing to improve as the season goes, and that is going to be the measure of our success. Unfortunately, the Ivy is not as strong as last year, so how we navigate league play is going to ultimately determine how this season turns out. A slip up to a tough (but not nationally respected team) is going to be an albatross.

ugarte
for anyone curious penn state won 10-6

You have a talent for being snarky but in a nice way. Yeah, somebody ought to mention the final score.

We hold teams to 10 goals, we should be able to win most games. We had a couple of passes / clearing passes easily intercepted, at least two, that led to PSU goals or took away goals we might have had. We have to gear ourselves for losing more faceoffs in MLax than the hockey team wins.

No snow at the game and the field was nice and clean. Note that elements of the pep band were out. A tuba and drum is like ten trumpets.

Had to believe Slope Day (5/10) is less than two months off.

Week to prepare for Yale's ride and yet can't get across midfield.

Yale’s defense seems to get better as games go on so it’s great that we’ve accumulated a big lead early.

Yale can't afford a high-resolution camera?

I think this game is answering the question of 'How important is Michael Long to our offense?' pretty well

Al DeFlorio
Yale can't afford a high-resolution camera?

I wondered if I needed to go see my optometrist

semsox
I think this game is answering the question of 'How important is Michael Long to our offense?' pretty well

I saw this, didn’t know Long was back and thought “Uh oh.” To spare others the heartburn: Long was back, 3G 1A, and Cornell won 20-10.

JasonN95

semsox
I think this game is answering the question of 'How important is Michael Long to our offense?' pretty well

I saw this, didn’t know Long was back and thought “Uh oh.” To spare others the heartburn: Long was back, 3G 1A, and Cornell won 20-10.

Sometimes hard to tell with the 1950s picture quality, but it looked to me that Coyle was mostly at X and Long was on left wing, a la John Piatelli. May explain Coyle's six assists today.

Eleven assists for Cornell, one for Yale.

Great to see Long back and apparently at full strength. Having Coyle at X and Long on the wing is not something I would have expected, but it worked! This offense is just so much harder to defend with Long, no matter where he is.

In other lax news, PSU loses to Marquette (!) in the Metro Cup on Long Island. Video here, with color commentary by none other than RP3: [www.youtube.com]

Al DeFlorio
Yale can't afford a high-resolution camera?

I put this on 32" monitor and looked up close. At times it looked like standard def but at least once I saw a focus shift (as in, to out-of-focus) and then back. As we, too, have done too often at Schoellkopf, the video guy -- sorry, Ivy League cinematographer -- shows a half-field view when most all the action is within 15 yards of the goal. And yet, at Yale, it was also as if he locked the pan head, took a swig of coffee, savored the taste, and was unconcerned that passes to the middies were sometimes outside the already wide frame. Damn, you can rent decent video techs cheap; their supply outweighs demand.

[nm duplicate response]

[nm dupe post]
My bad. I got a Could Not Post Reply msg so I tried again. They all three posted.

You didn't need to tell us 3 times, bill!

The rude awakening from Penn State last week at Schoellkopf followed by PSU's 12-11 loss today to Marquette in a game on Long Island (MacArthur HS) and Cornell's shattering dominance of Yale, 20-10, at the Eli's excellent non-football stadium suggests Cornell had a one-game hiccup that resolved itself.

It was a Cornell blowout after Yale got 2 quick goals:

#7 Cornell  8  4  4  4  -- 20
#8 Yale     2  2  1  5  -- 10

And with Michael Long playing his first 2023 game, the attack scoring was solid and balanced:

Billy Coyle   2  6  -- 8
CJ Kirst      5  0  -- 5 (on 7 shots)
Michael Long  3  1  -- 4  

Not to revisit Cornell teams of the very recent past, but imagine if Jeff Teat played with Coyle, Kirst or Long (pick two), how could other teams try to isolate Teat out of the game?
Chayse Ierlan was insanely good in goal: 21 saves on 31 shots, .677. Yale's Jared Paquette was the inverse, 11 saves on 31 shots, .354.

The only damage Cornell could have and did not inflict on Yale was ending attackman Matt Brandau's goal-scoring streak at 44 games. Held in check most of the game by Gavin Adler, he broke loose for a single goal midway through the fourth. Not gonna help his Tewaaraton odds.

Cornell dropped from 3 to 7 in the polls after Penn State, so how much does Cornell rise by doubling the score on the team one position below us? And #5 Penn State will fall how far?

god i love this thread

ugarte
god i love this thread

For so many reasons.

This game against Yale was like a dream--winning half the faceoffs, winning the ground balls, AND Michael Long was playing. I was actually surprised to see the stats at the end of the game--50% on faceoffs and ahead only 34-32 on ground balls--seemed like Cornell was dominating both stats through three quarters. So happy to have Long back--the games don't get easier even if, on paper, the Ivies are not nearly as good as they were last year.

We find out soon who is who in the Ivies

Dart plays UNC today than in 2 weeks Harvard/cornell/yale
Harv might be the 2nd best but who knows.

Princeton has fallen off a cliff so far but 3 one goal losses will make it look worse

Penn has lost to good teams

Penn state has taken out half of the ivies so far it seems

djk26
I was actually surprised to see the stats at the end of the game--50% on faceoffs and ahead only 34-32 on ground balls--seemed like Cornell was dominating both stats through three quarters.

It seemed like that mostly because our gbs and fos came at more important times or plays in the game. On faceoffs often a win is awarded even though it's only momentary and doesn't result in a significant offensive possession.

Many reasons for this to be a sweet W. Princeton was historically our biggest lacrosse rival, but now it's Yale. AND they chose this game for their Lacrosse Alumni Weekend. A beautiful public flogging.

Superb effort on the part of a Big Red team coming off an uninspired and unimaginative (offensive) game vs PSU. I give unqualified credit to Connor Buzek and his coaching staff who have Cornell on a trajectory that is simply inspiring. CU has a coaching treasure in Buzek and he and Jordan Stevens need to be signed on for the long term.
Welcome back Mikey Long, you were sorely missed. And with Aiden Blake showing signs of shaking off the post-injury doldrums the year is looking brighter and better particularly following yesterday's triumph.
Depth like we haven't seen in years, fantastic coaching, so much positivity surrounding this team.
Go Big Red!

Why is the game this week on a Sunday?

upprdeck
Why is the game this week on a Sunday?

I would imagine it is because the folks at ESPNU needed content for the noon EDT Sunday slot.

finchphil

upprdeck
Why is the game this week on a Sunday?

I would imagine it is because the folks at ESPNU needed content for the noon EDT Sunday slot.

Right.

Cornell climbs to #5 this week.

Heard on the local news this morning, that CJ has a younger brother who’s a freshman at Syracuse, joining his older brother Cole, who’s a grad student transfer from Leigh. Too bad they’re not on our schedule this year.

they love the Cs in that famil

Connor, Colin, CJ, Caden . Cole.

but I dont see another Kirst on the SU roster?

upprdeck
they love the Cs in that famil

Connor, Colin, CJ, Caden . Cole.

but I dont see another Kirst on the SU roster?

A brief Google search showed that the youngest brother, Caden, a goalie, apparently committed to Rutgers. Perhaps the reporter was mistaken, thinking grad transfer Cole was an SU freshman? Or I misheard. Anyhow, if Caden’s as good a goalie as CJ is an attacker, he could transfer to Cornell once Ierlan is gone?
.

Why would he transfer? His older brother Colin was the Rutgers goalie last year (a senior, now graduated, 2nd team AA), and their father also played for Rutgers.

CJ vs Colin was the big story line of the Cornell-Rutgers NCAA semifinal game:

[www.youtube.com]

CU77
Why would he transfer? His older brother Colin was the Rutgers goalie last year (a senior, now graduated, 2nd team AA), and their father also played for Rutgers.

Wishful thinking on my part! Also, life would be much easier for their mother. Not to mention, Cornell scored 17 goals on his brother - CJ only had three of them.
.

upprdeck
Why is the game this week on a Sunday?

Cornell-Penn get a marquee matchup on cable, not just streaming. The 12 noon Sunday start also has no competition from D1 basketball games until 2:20 pm. And on Sunday more HS players will be able to watch.

Penn comes into Schoellkopf rated 16/15 depending on polls, 3-3 overall, 1-0 Ivy, wins over Georgetown, St. Joe's (OT), Princeton (9-8 OT), losses to Duke by 2, Penn State by 6, Villanova by 1. So, only one game decided by more than 2 goals. Game on cable, ESPNU, as well as streaming, 12 noon.

Some interesting talk about Penn's senior middie Sam Handley (feels like this is his 5th or 6th year at Penn, b/c of Covid) being overrated. IL's Terry Foy in running down his personal top 20 (Penn 15, Cornell 6) links to mean-spirited tweets. One supporter notes Handley's career PPG of 4.13 is better than Tom Schreiber and Paul Rabil. [www.insidelacrosse.com]

Foy on Corell: "I knew I dropped Cornell too far last week [to 12] (and said as much in that writeup) [so why did he drop Cornell that far?], and there’s a reasonable possibility that they’re still a spot too low — would I pick the Big Red to beat Rutgers [No. 5] on a neutral field right now? Probably."

billhoward
Penn comes into Schoellkopf rated 16/15 depending on polls, 3-3 overall, 1-0 Ivy, wins over Georgetown, St. Joe's (OT), Princeton (9-8 OT), losses to Duke by 2, Penn State by 6, Villanova by 1. So, only one game decided by more than 2 goals. Game on cable, ESPNU, as well as streaming, 12 noon.

Some interesting talk about Penn's senior middie Sam Handley (feels like this is his 5th or 6th year at Penn, b/c of Covid) being overrated. IL's Terry Foy in running down his personal top 20 (Penn 15, Cornell 6) links to mean-spirited tweets. One supporter notes Handley's career PPG of 4.13 is better than Tom Schreiber and Paul Rabil. [www.insidelacrosse.com]

Foy on Corell: "I knew I dropped Cornell too far last week [to 12] (and said as much in that writeup) [so why did he drop Cornell that far?], and there’s a reasonable possibility that they’re still a spot too low — would I pick the Big Red to beat Rutgers [No. 5] on a neutral field right now? Probably."

Yale just got clobbered by Princeton 23-10 in a game, that like last week, wasn’t even as close as the score. Yale looks like a team that is checking out.

There doesn't seem to be a dominant team or couple of teams this year. It looks like 5 or 6 can compete for everything. If Cornell keeps improving, I like our chances. We've said a lot on here about Coach Buczek, and rightly so, but to point out the obvious, Jordan Stevens has also been doing a fantastic job with the defense. We're in every single game if the D can keep holding the other team to 10 or fewer.

That's how to start a game.

More hard cuts off ball and some off ball picks! We're making it way too easy for the Penn D to mark all our guys on O. Some good on-ball picks, but no off-ball screens.

Penn 4, Good Guys 3, first quarter.

I guess you need a TV provider service to stream. Not available on ESPN+.

Might be free on ESPN.

[www.espn.com]

Coach Buczek is a little hot.

mike1960
Might be free on ESPN.

[www.espn.com]

Unfortunately, no. That link is requiring me to sign in with a tv provider.

No radio today, either. This is a game where the decision to cut the radio broadcasts particularly hurts.

Thanks for your updates, Mike. I’ll rely on this thread and stat tracker. LGR!

RichH
I guess you need a TV provider service to stream. Not available on ESPN+.

I’m watching on ESPN+ since my cable package doesn’t include the U.

Penn 7, Good Guys 9, at the half. Chayse has missed a couple and has also been amazing on a couple of saves. Cornell doing a solid job on faceoffs, either winning the draw or using good wing play to get most of the wins. Penn has scored twice on inverts going to Ierlan's left. They also scored twice on step downs from around 15 when the defense did not rotate quickly enough. Cornell is scoring mostly on outstanding individual play, not great team play. The Penn goalie has been beat three times on bounce shots at his feet. Mikey Long is not in uniform today and it really shows. Adler is doing a great job on their leading goal scorer, who has only one and a couple of assists.

Much better team offense now. Cornell is forcing Penn to rotate a lot. They can't keep it up forever, and Cornell is finding the backdoor and step down. Penn 9, Cornell 12, middle of the 3rd.

Helmet to helmet to Billy Coyle. Cornell gets 2 minutes non-releasable. Scored 1. Penn 9, Cornell 13. 3 minutes left in the 3rd.

Really nice play at 12-9... a clean steal in the offensive zone as Penn was trying to pass it around after a ground ball. Led to a hard hit in front of the crease for a 2 minute non-releasable. Kirst with a nice goal 30 seconds in, but that was the only scoring on the man-up.

As I'm typing, Shipley scores for Penn to make it 13-10 with 2 minutes left in the third.

Good quarter, end of the 3rd.

Penn 10, Good Guys, 14.

Overall, Cornell looks like the better team, but Penn is not going anywhere.

CJ has Teat-like accuracy with his shots.

Kirst with a little French pastry, but alas no goal.

2 turnovers in a row for Cornell. Getting sloppy with the ball. Handley blasts from 20.

Penn 11, Cornell 15. 10:47 to go in the 4th.

Win on the face by Petrakis. Numbers. Passes to CJ. Goal.

Penn 11, Cornell 16.

The refs have decided not to call the push in the back today.

18-12 final. Team looked real good from what I saw.

Petrakis to CJ was great - clean win and sprint to the goal on the faceoff, dish to a wide-open Kirst to snap it in. Dominant at the X too, but I don't know if that is a consistent Penn weak spot.

Final score: Penn 12, Cornell 18.

The team looked solid offensively in the second half without Long. They moved the ball well and found the open shooter with the extra pass. CJ is a great scorer, one of the best, if not the best, in the country. The Penn star Sam Handley scored three or so, but he did not light it up thanks to good play by Adler. Cornell did a great job at the faceoff and minimized the number of possessions for Penn. Cornell was beast-like on ground balls today. Ierlan made some terrific saves in the second half. The cameras actually followed the ball, and the lenses did not look like they were covered with Vaseline. Terrific win!

Long hurt again? That’s not good

If Cornell wins faceoffs at this clip going forward (they won’t), they’ll win the national championship.

CU2007
Long hurt again? That’s not good

They said it was a game time decision, so we can only hope with this week off he’ll be ready to go for the 2nd half of the season.

Game highlights. Confirms my impression that Anish and Quint spent more time talking to each other than doing the play-by-play.

George64
Game highlights. Confirms my impression that Anish and Quint spent more time talking to each other than doing the play-by-play.

I can't stand to watch them. It's the Howard Cosell school of broadcasting. Jabber, jabber, jabber.

But for what it's worth, the editing of that clip was horrendous, too.

George64
Game highlights. Confirms my impression that Anish and Quint spent more time talking to each other than doing the play-by-play.

Two great non-scoring plays got no comment because Quint and Anish were chatting. CJ Kirst extended his stick high up and intercepted a Penn pass deep in their zone to steal a possession, and Wallace came in to double and physically turn away Handley when he was attempting to spin around Adler. I'm a big fan of Wallace who plays a fierce, physical game.

But those faceoff guys, though...

Jeff Hopkins '82

George64
Game highlights. Confirms my impression that Anish and Quint spent more time talking to each other than doing the play-by-play.

I can't stand to watch them. It's the Howard Cosell school of broadcasting. Jabber, jabber, jabber.

But for what it's worth, the editing of that clip was horrendous, too.

The primary reason that I watch games with the mute button engaged.

They were announcing from their basements. Didn’t realize ESPN was doing it this way. They seemed disengaged and quint was absolutely refusing to take the bait and give Cornell due credit despite his partners prompting. Par for the course I guess.

arugula
They were announcing from their basements. Didn’t realize ESPN was doing it this way. They seemed disengaged and quint was absolutely refusing to take the bait and give Cornell due credit despite his partners prompting. Par for the course I guess.

We're seeing cost concerns at work. This is not NC$$ hoops but college lacrosse. It may be the cost of two air tickets into and out of Ithaca, plus two nights in a hotel, has an impact. Or the time driving to and from. Kessenich can only do so much in a week and for all the work he does on lax, wrestling, horse racing etcetera for TV and online, he's super busy. But still:

If ESPN-X (whichever not-primary ESPN channel) has the announcing pair working from homes, ESPN ought to send around a lighting specialist and set designer (read: install a greenscreen) so it doesn't look like two guys working out of two basements. Maybe morph them onto a single set.

I hope they have a whisperer in the Schoellkopf press box to queue them to anything they may be missing from the feed.

Meanwhile, did anybody else get excited seeing the teaser for Cornell-Syracuse lacrosse Tuesday on ESPN-U and think this traditional game got re-added when some other opponent dropped out? Oops, that's Cornell and Syracuse women playing, 6 pm. It showed up a couple times, but I didn't hear it announced.

I suspect that cost was only part of the issue. They probably asked Quint and Anish if they wanted to go to Ithaca and were told "No Fucking Way, that is not in the ACC or B10."

arugula
They were announcing from their basements. Didn’t realize ESPN was doing it this way. They seemed disengaged and quint was absolutely refusing to take the bait and give Cornell due credit despite his partners prompting. Par for the course I guess.

I guess he was a little more convinced by watching Cornell live...er...on TV yesterday. In this week's rankings, Quint has us #5 behind the four ACC/B1G heavyweights of UVA, ND, MD, Duke. Hard to argue that Cornell's resume so far is stronger than any of those teams. He was very complimentary in his write up.

Quint's top 20 for March 27, 2023

Quint Kessenich

The Big Red’s transformation from an ugly home loss against Penn State to a road demolition of Yale in one week was eye-opening. I like the Cornell offense a lot. Their defense is sound and Ierlan is clicking with a strong save percentage, he doesn’t let in soft goals. My questions would center on the depth of the SSDM position, faceoffs, and middle of the field capability when they have to play a more athletic team from the ACC or Big Ten. Lots to like here. Cornell is the favorite in the Ivy League, and a title contender.

Seven games in, 6-1 Cornell climbs from 7 to 5 in the USILA polls, remains at 5 in the media poll. The top seven have one loss each except Maryland and Rutgers with two. Via the USILA poll :

 1. Notre Dame    520 was 2 
 2. Maryland      489 was 3 
 3. Virginia      449 was 1
 4. Duke          443 no change (10 games already played, 9-1) 
 5. Cornell       408 NC
 6. Rutgers       396 NC
 7. Villanova     329 was 10
 8. Hopkins       303 was 9 (has 3 losses ) 
 9. Penn State    289 was 5 ("          " )
10. Loyola        258 was 12("          " ) 
...
12. Yale          247 was 8 ("          " )
13. Army          229 NC
16. Penn          151 was 17 (" " )
20. Princeton      34 was 18 (3-4)
Also votes: Dartmouth (first Ivy win since 2015, OT vs. Harvard)

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/DI/polls <-- resolves to the most current poll

One thing our ESPNU announcers mentioned during the Penn game, when they weren't distracted by doing the play by play, was: polls-schmolls, what matters to the NCAA seeding committee is RPI, and with the Ivies comparatively weak this year, it could be a two-bid Ivy League participation in the 2023 tournament. Cornell will likely go and whoever else goes (Yale? Penn? Princeton?) isn't getting much of a bump beating fellow Ivy teams. For Cornell that could mean a non-top-four seeding unless one of the top four loses one or two more games.

Cornell's two most challenging games should be:
@ Army 4/15 noon
Princeton 4/29 noon

All that and, he's covering his bases. Doesn't want Cornell to sneak up on the experts two years in a row.

Brown knocks off Villanova today, 13-11, thanks to 22 saves vs. V's 8.

No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would mame it much clearer.

billhoward

arugula
They were announcing from their basements. Didn’t realize ESPN was doing it this way. They seemed disengaged and quint was absolutely refusing to take the bait and give Cornell due credit despite his partners prompting. Par for the course I guess.

We're seeing cost concerns at work. This is not NC$$ hoops but college lacrosse. It may be the cost of two air tickets into and out of Ithaca, plus two nights in a hotel, has an impact. Or the time driving to and from. Kessenich can only do so much in a week and for all the work he does on lax, wrestling, horse racing etcetera for TV and online, he's super busy. But still:

If ESPN-X (whichever not-primary ESPN channel) has the announcing pair working from homes, ESPN ought to send around a lighting specialist and set designer (read: install a greenscreen) so it doesn't look like two guys working out of two basements. Maybe morph them onto a single set.

I hope they have a whisperer in the Schoellkopf press box to queue them to anything they may be missing from the feed.

Meanwhile, did anybody else get excited seeing the teaser for Cornell-Syracuse lacrosse Tuesday on ESPN-U and think this traditional game got re-added when some other opponent dropped out? Oops, that's Cornell and Syracuse women playing, 6 pm. It showed up a couple times, but I didn't hear it announced.

Pre-covid, the cable sports networks were already doing this with European soccer games, and NBC had also done some lesser Olympics events from a studio. During the pandemic, the sports networks got accustomed to covering games from off-site, so this is here to stay. In DC, the Capitals didn't start sending the announcers to road games again until midway through last season.

The US broadcasts for Formula 1 — as obscenely affluent as a sport can be – have had cost constraints so the announcers worked out of a USA studio and IIRC had to rely on the Formula 1 feed, not even a single camera controlled by the Yanks.

I didn't realize the Caps had their announcers off the road for a period – in the very late end of Covid? But I'm so old school I still bristle at the idea the team TV announcers are really dancing to the tune of the team's interests, not the viewers'.

Despite that, there was Mike Emrick. Genius.

And Cornell's radio now webcast announcers are a very good bunch compared to the jokers, for the most part, other Ivy / ECAC schools have.

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

Last year a big advantage to being #6 or #7 rather than #5 or #8. Maybe not so much this year with the big three (maybe four) pretty much evenly matched. Although UVA seems more explosive.

Our game against Brown will be tougher than it looks if just go by won-loss records. Brown had suspended four seniors for a noise violation, and they returned this week to lead Brown to a victory over No. 6 Villanova.

In 2022, the path to championship Monday lay in avoiding Maryland. This year, there is no single dominant team. We coulda been gone in the quarterfinals last year given a different bracket. So could Maryland.

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

BearLover

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

They went undefeated in 2007 and were seeded fourth behind three and four loss southern teams. So I'm not counting on anything in a sport that gives the committee discretion.

I re-watched some of the Penn game and I think I have a better appreciation of how our offense works. In one sense, it's pretty straightforward lacrosse: we drive the alley (Kelleher) to put stress on the defense, pass the ball around quickly because the ball moves faster than the defense. We break down defenses by forcing them to slide and switch until they are lost and out of position, leaving an offense player with high percentage shot -- a step down, back door, crease attack pass. But this offense requires good vision and absolutely requires that we make accurate passes to another player at the stick above the shoulder. If the pass is low or high, everything stops for us, and we have to get it cranked up again. We are not good when the man at X holds the ball when the defensive man is hung, or when one of our players holds the ball too long. We are not a cutting offense; it's rare to see a cutter, although often have a crease attackman ready in the middle.

We did not run this offense very often in the Penn State game. That game was all about individual dodges and shots (too many) from outside. Three of our six goals were unassisted and seemed to lead to many more attempts at unassisted goals. I think the only time we really ran our team offense was in the man-down situation close to the end of the game.

Going forward, I like our chances when we're moving the ball.

Chris '03

BearLover

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

They went undefeated in 2007 and were seeded fourth behind three and four loss southern teams. So I'm not counting on anything in a sport that gives the committee discretion.

Looking back at 2007…what in the world? Was the Ivy League horrible that season? We beat Duke, Notre Dame, Princeton (all of whom made the tournament, Duke as the 1-seed), Syracuse…seems like a massive botch by the committee seeding us 4th. Still, I can’t imagine something like that happens this year if we were to run the table, given where we currently sit (5th in the rankings at 6-1).

BearLover

Chris '03

BearLover

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

They went undefeated in 2007 and were seeded fourth behind three and four loss southern teams. So I'm not counting on anything in a sport that gives the committee discretion.

Looking back at 2007…what in the world? Was the Ivy League horrible that season? We beat Duke, Notre Dame, Princeton (all of whom made the tournament, Duke as the 1-seed), Syracuse…seems like a massive botch by the committee seeding us 4th. Still, I can’t imagine something like that happens this year if we were to run the table, given where we currently sit (5th in the rankings at 6-1).

Came down to RPI. Committee chair after the fact said they moved Cornell up a seed or two despite where Cornell ranked in RPI. The committee now looks at more (e.g., who'd you beat; who beat you) in making selections and seeding. See last year's correct decisions on Duke and ND.

The real crime in 2007 was being seeded below Hopkins. Hop was 1-4 against the other teams seeded 1 through 8, but somehow was seeded third. Ridiculous. But their SOS and RPI scores were high and that's what drove selection and seeding, to a fault. Too few games played in lacrosse to drive selection and seeding only by numbers, and the numbers (SOS, RPI) are too much a function of whom you played, not your wins and losses

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Chris '03

BearLover

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

They went undefeated in 2007 and were seeded fourth behind three and four loss southern teams. So I'm not counting on anything in a sport that gives the committee discretion.

Looking back at 2007…what in the world? Was the Ivy League horrible that season? We beat Duke, Notre Dame, Princeton (all of whom made the tournament, Duke as the 1-seed), Syracuse…seems like a massive botch by the committee seeding us 4th. Still, I can’t imagine something like that happens this year if we were to run the table, given where we currently sit (5th in the rankings at 6-1).

Came down to RPI. Committee chair after the fact said they moved Cornell up a seed or two despite where Cornell ranked in RPI. The committee now looks at more (e.g., who'd you beat; who beat you) in making selections and seeding. See last year's correct decisions on Duke and ND.

The real crime in 2007 was being seeded below Hopkins. Hop was 1-4 against the other teams seeded 1 through 8, but somehow was seeded third. Ridiculous. But their SOS and RPI scores were high and that's what drove selection and seeding, to a fault. Too few games played in lacrosse to drive selection and seeding only by numbers, and the numbers (SOS, RPI) are too much a function of whom you played, not your wins and losses

So as a result Hopkins got the much easier semifinal against upstart Delaware while we lost on the last second goal to Duke in the stifling heat. A rested Hopkins then went on to beat Duke in the final. Gotta believe had we gotten the 3 seed we would have taken the trophy.

I am hoping that with the warmer weather the passing continues to improve. the PSU game was played in cold conditions that didnt help in trying to move the ball around quickly..

scoop85

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Chris '03

BearLover

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

They went undefeated in 2007 and were seeded fourth behind three and four loss southern teams. So I'm not counting on anything in a sport that gives the committee discretion.

Looking back at 2007…what in the world? Was the Ivy League horrible that season? We beat Duke, Notre Dame, Princeton (all of whom made the tournament, Duke as the 1-seed), Syracuse…seems like a massive botch by the committee seeding us 4th. Still, I can’t imagine something like that happens this year if we were to run the table, given where we currently sit (5th in the rankings at 6-1).

Came down to RPI. Committee chair after the fact said they moved Cornell up a seed or two despite where Cornell ranked in RPI. The committee now looks at more (e.g., who'd you beat; who beat you) in making selections and seeding. See last year's correct decisions on Duke and ND.

The real crime in 2007 was being seeded below Hopkins. Hop was 1-4 against the other teams seeded 1 through 8, but somehow was seeded third. Ridiculous. But their SOS and RPI scores were high and that's what drove selection and seeding, to a fault. Too few games played in lacrosse to drive selection and seeding only by numbers, and the numbers (SOS, RPI) are too much a function of whom you played, not your wins and losses

So as a result Hopkins got the much easier semifinal against upstart Delaware while we lost on the last second goal to Duke in the stifling heat. A rested Hopkins then went on to beat Duke in the final. Gotta believe had we gotten the 3 seed we would have taken the trophy.

Delaware's only weapon was a phenomenal FOGO who'd win cleanly, run down the field and score a goal before the defense could set up. Pietramala neutered him by having his FOGO jump the gun and give the ball to Delaware so Hop could get set on defense. Hop was just so much better than Delaware in all phases of the game except faceoffs it was no contest.

This led to a rules change where after so many faceoff violations in a half a team was assessed a man-down penalty.

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Chris '03

BearLover

billhoward

upprdeck
No idea after the top 3-5 teams who is good.. Too bad Cornell didnt beat PSU it would make it much clearer.

Indeed. We'd be top three except then how would the voters break apart the Virginia-Notre Dame-Maryland holy trinity so at least one of them would hold the top spot?

Cornell wins out including Army and Princeton, we might still be outside the top four seeds (Duke being the other).

If Cornell wins out, that means they win the Ivy tournament and finish 14-1. Cornell would 100% be a top 4 seed under those circumstances, possibly first overall. The teams ahead of us aren’t all going to win out. In fact, that would be impossible since some of them will play each other, multiple times. Cornell controls its own destiny.

They went undefeated in 2007 and were seeded fourth behind three and four loss southern teams. So I'm not counting on anything in a sport that gives the committee discretion.

Looking back at 2007…what in the world? Was the Ivy League horrible that season? We beat Duke, Notre Dame, Princeton (all of whom made the tournament, Duke as the 1-seed), Syracuse…seems like a massive botch by the committee seeding us 4th. Still, I can’t imagine something like that happens this year if we were to run the table, given where we currently sit (5th in the rankings at 6-1).

Came down to RPI. Committee chair after the fact said they moved Cornell up a seed or two despite where Cornell ranked in RPI. The committee now looks at more (e.g., who'd you beat; who beat you) in making selections and seeding. See last year's correct decisions on Duke and ND.

The real crime in 2007 was being seeded below Hopkins. Hop was 1-4 against the other teams seeded 1 through 8, but somehow was seeded third. Ridiculous. But their SOS and RPI scores were high and that's what drove selection and seeding, to a fault. Too few games played in lacrosse to drive selection and seeding only by numbers, and the numbers (SOS, RPI) are too much a function of whom you played, not your wins and losses

The insular schedule created all kinds of issues. I think this may have been the first year of the ACC tournament too? It allowed the SOS criteria to drop some weaker opponents from the calculation (I think only the best ten counted? And with the ACC tournament, those teams ended up playing a few more games than the ivies?). Hopkins got the benefit of being an independent and scheduling enough good teams for good SOS and enough bad teams to ensure a winning record.

Duke has taken advantage of schedule for a few yrs now. playing games with fall/spring games

Cornell went up 3-0 in the first 70 seconds, 10-2 at the first quarter break, then cruised the rest of the way, led by ~10 most of the second half.

Final: 
Dartmouth    2  2  3  4  -- 11
Cornell     10  4  4  4  -- 22 

CJ Kirst      5-1--6
Aiden Blake   4-0--4
Billy Coyle   2-2--4
Hugh Kelleher 4-0--4 

Nice symmetry: 10 goal outburst in the first for Cornell, then 4 each period the rest of the way, and for the second week in a row, Cornell doubles an Ivy opponent. Cornell was 21x37 on faceoffs, which had been Dartmouth's strength. Ground balls, 44-25 Cornell.

Also Saturday, Ivies and Cornell opponents (and people we'd like to see lose):
Penn 17, Yale 16 (Penn 5 goals, Yale 2 in the fourth)
Harvard 14, Colgate 10
Army 12, Bucknell 7
Princeton 16 (2-1 Ivy now), Brown 12 (0-2)
Also:
Michigan 16, #2 Maryland 11, final, at Maryland. Wow, that drops the Terps to 6-3. They'll probably fall to fourth in the polls, only one place ahead of stuck-in-fifth-by-voters-who-don't-know-the-Civil-War-ended Cornell.
Friday, #4 Duke 16 (10-1, loss to Jacksonville, OT wins vs. Denver, Syracuse), @ #1 Virginia (7-2, losses to Maryland, Duke) 14.

---

Pre-game:
Cornell press release posits today's game against Dartmouth, 12/1 at noon at Schoellkopf (rainy, mid-60s), as the battle for league supremacy. This via a release on Inside Lacrosse naming Gavin Adler ("Alder" ) and CJ Kirst to the first team and Chase Ierlan to the third team.

Hard to think of Dartmouth as other than the Ivy League doormat. Last week, Dartmouth got its first Ivy win since 2015, in OT against Harvard. They're 1-0 Ivy vs. Cornell's 2-0, and both are 6-1 overall, Dartmouth's only loss versus North Carolina. In the polls, Dartmouth is also-receiving-votes versus Cornell's fifth place.

Cornell mid-season All-America choices: [www.insidelacrosse.com]
A-Connor Shellenberger, Virginia
A-CJ Kirst, Cornell
A-Brennan O'Neill, Duke
A/M-Matt Campbell, Villanova
M-Sam Handley, Penn
M-Thomas McConvey, Virginia
FO-Jake Naso, Duke
SSDM-Connor Maher, North Carolina
SSDM-Chet Comizio, Villanova
LSM-Roy Meyer, Boston U
D-Gavin Adler, Cornell
D-Brett Makar, Maryland
D-Owen Grant, Delaware
G-Will Mark, Syracuse

Cornell pre-game notes: [cornellbigred.com]
Inside Lacrosse, "How Dartmouth's Turnaround Has Been Building For Years": [www.insidelacrosse.com]