Cornell lacrosse 2020

Looking forward to 2020. We've got Jeff Teat for one last year. We return rising senior LSM Brandon Salvatorive (unanimous 1st team); junior A John Piatelli, M Jon Donville; rising sophomore Chayse Ierlan. We're supposed to to have a very good FOGO coming in. We lose All-Ivy A Clark Petterson (meaning even more defensive pressure on Teat), M Jake McCulloch, SSDM Ryan Bran, D Fleet Wallace (All-Ivy name team, too).

We've got Penn and Yale coming back loaded. Penn freshman middie Sam Hundley has something like 35G and 60 points. If we had somebody like him in the midfield, that might bring defenses out a bit more and give Teat room to maneuver. Teat's three years have been 72 points (broke Pannell's freshman record), 99 points, this year 70 points.

Be interesting to see who our non-league opponents are in 2020. We were hurt by not enough top-20 wins. Playing D1 newbie St. Bonaventure won't help; do we owe them a game at their place before we bow out? Lehigh, Albany, maybe-with-a-tailwind Hobart are possible top-20s. Syracuse is top-20. Were this year's Penn State and Towson (at Crown Classic) and Notre Dame one-and-dones?

So what are Cornell's unmet needs? More midfield? More defense? Faceoffs for sure.

Rules changes the NCAA needs for lacrosse:

* End faceoffs. Start of game could be a faceoff or a coin toss. Faceoffs feel as if they have less to do with the game than field goals have to do with football. If the other team gets the ball and has to go 80 yards to score, it will keep the games closer and maybe teams will put special teams efforts into the rides rather than faceoffs.
* Return overtime to 4 minutes, total goals for the the first OT at least. Do it because of the faceoff disparity (Ierlan won close to 80% of faceoffs so if Yale is in OT in the playoffs, Yale has a huge advantage) or because of randomness, first to score in OT is too random an outcome. When Cornell won its second NCAA title, in OT, it gave up a goal to Maryland then then rolled off four straight to win. The NCAA could grow a pair and tell ESPN to block out an extra 10 minutes for the possibility of OT. The only thing delayed is usually a playoff softball game.
* Think about video review at least in tournament games. In the Ivy tournament there appeared to be some embellishment, one of which led to a no-release foul against Cornell. And get tougher on embellishment / dives; when the announcers in the booth criticize the ruling it hurts respect for the game.
* Don't mess with the shot clock for now. Worked well.
* To the formula for who makes the playoffs and gets seeded, add an equalizer for the first 3? 4? games where one team has an advantage of playing game 3 when another team is playing game 1. It's one thing to be playing game 3 against a Duke or Notre Dame that's playing game 5, and another to be playing game 1 against a team playing game 3 or 4.
* (Or is this in the equation already?) Give credit for the ranking the team had when you played them. It may be you beat a #1 team that dropped to #8 because it wasn't really that good but it also might be you played them before 2 of their 4 best players got hurt.
* (Or is this taken into account already?) A team that plays more games has more chances for top 5, 10 and 20 wins. Of the top 20, teams have played as few as 12 games (TOSU) and as many as 17 (Georgetown and "Army West Point".

The last three items really would make the who-gets-in decision more formulaic. Which is good if it helps you. It makes it harder for the old guard to allow personal biases to work their way in ("Navy's always a good team. They ought to be in.)

billhoward
Rules changes the NCAA needs for lacrosse:

* End faceoffs. Start of game could be a faceoff or a coin toss. Faceoffs feel as if they have less to do with the game than field goals have to do with football. If the other team gets the ball and has to go 80 yards to score, it will keep the games closer and maybe teams will put special teams efforts into the rides rather than faceoffs.
* Return overtime to 4 minutes, total goals for the the first OT at least. Do it because of the faceoff disparity (Ierlan won close to 80% of faceoffs so if Yale is in OT in the playoffs, Yale has a huge advantage) or because of randomness, first to score in OT is too random an outcome. When Cornell won its second NCAA title, in OT, it gave up a goal to Maryland then then rolled off four straight to win. The NCAA could grow a pair and tell ESPN to block out an extra 10 minutes for the possibility of OT. The only thing delayed is usually a playoff softball game.
* Think about video review at least in tournament games. In the Ivy tournament there appeared to be some embellishment, one of which led to a no-release foul against Cornell. And get tougher on embellishment / dives; when the announcers in the booth criticize the ruling it hurts respect for the game.
* Don't mess with the shot clock for now. Worked well.

+1

Swampy

billhoward
Rules changes the NCAA needs for lacrosse:

* End faceoffs. Start of game could be a faceoff or a coin toss. Faceoffs feel as if they have less to do with the game than field goals have to do with football. If the other team gets the ball and has to go 80 yards to score, it will keep the games closer and maybe teams will put special teams efforts into the rides rather than faceoffs.
* Return overtime to 4 minutes, total goals for the the first OT at least. Do it because of the faceoff disparity (Ierlan won close to 80% of faceoffs so if Yale is in OT in the playoffs, Yale has a huge advantage) or because of randomness, first to score in OT is too random an outcome. When Cornell won its second NCAA title, in OT, it gave up a goal to Maryland then then rolled off four straight to win. The NCAA could grow a pair and tell ESPN to block out an extra 10 minutes for the possibility of OT. The only thing delayed is usually a playoff softball game.
* Think about video review at least in tournament games. In the Ivy tournament there appeared to be some embellishment, one of which led to a no-release foul against Cornell. And get tougher on embellishment / dives; when the announcers in the booth criticize the ruling it hurts respect for the game.
* Don't mess with the shot clock for now. Worked well.

+1

+1

Get this done and I might even enjoy watching lacrosse again. They've made some major strides with the shot clock, now let's see if they can work on the rest of the game problems.

Bill did a great job of highlighting my 2 major complaints, faceoff and OT. Both of these really undermine the fun of the game. Sure hockey has sudden death, but there are usually multiple chances by each team before the winning goal. In lacrosse you win the FO and then plan for the winning goal. It's not random enough.

Enough has been said about the FO catastrophe. Is it really fun to watch a game where one team seems to always have the ball and the other is just focused on trying to stop them. Bball gave up the jump ball, lacrosse should do the same thing for FOs.

Basketball also cut a hole in the bottom of the peach basket to speed up the game.

(Aside: A reporter who worked with me in Springfield, Mass., when there was a Tip-Off Classic, was doing both history of basketball and what-this-game-will-be-like stories. She was not a sportswriter. The draft that thank God did not make print conflated the past and present, and had the current Tip-Off game played with peach baskets. She also interviewed honorary chair Bob Cousy, pronounced it Couseny in a phone interview, and asked him to clarify his relationship to basketball.)

billhoward
Basketball also cut a hole in the bottom of the peach basket to speed up the game.

(Aside: A reporter who worked with me in Springfield, Mass., when there was a Tip-Off Classic, was doing both history of basketball and what-this-game-will-be-like stories. She was not a sportswriter. The draft that thank God did not make print conflated the past and present, and had the current Tip-Off game played with peach baskets. She also interviewed honorary chair Bob Cousy, pronounced it Couseny in a phone interview, and asked him to clarify his relationship to basketball.)

Nothing like an impartial, third-party observer.

Inside Lacrosse has an article on players invited to tryout for the U.S. U-19 team. Here's a list of Ivy and other schools along with the number of players that have been invited:

• Yale (10)
• Princeton (3)
• Brown (2)
• Cornell (2)
• Harvard (2)
• Penn (1)
• Dartmouth (0)
• Duke (10)
• Maryland (10)
• North Carolina (8)
• Virginia (8)
• Notre Dame (7)
• Johns Hopkins (5)
• Penn State (5)
• Syracuse (1)

Swampy
Inside Lacrosse has an article on players invited to tryout for the U.S. U-19 team. Here's a list of Ivy and other schools along with the number of players that have been invited:

• Yale (10)
• Princeton (3)
• Brown (2)
• Cornell (2)
• Harvard (2)
• Penn (1)
• Dartmouth (0)
• Duke (10)
• Maryland (10)
• North Carolina (8)
• Virginia (8)
• Notre Dame (7)
• Johns Hopkins (5)
• Penn State (5)
• Syracuse (1)

Yale with 10 tells us they’re recruiting is at an insane level right now. Stunning to se SU with just one invitee

scoop85

Swampy
Inside Lacrosse has an article on players invited to tryout for the U.S. U-19 team. Here's a list of Ivy and other schools along with the number of players that have been invited:

• Yale (10)
• Princeton (3)
• Brown (2)
• Cornell (2)
• Harvard (2)
• Penn (1)
• Dartmouth (0)
• Duke (10)
• Maryland (10)
• North Carolina (8)
• Virginia (8)
• Notre Dame (7)
• Johns Hopkins (5)
• Penn State (5)
• Syracuse (1)

Yale with 10 tells us they’re recruiting is at an insane level right now. Stunning to se SU with just one invitee

Agree. Very telling.

Worth noting that this is just American players and seems like we’ve had a lot of success recruiting Canadians recently - so maybe it’s not a total indictment of our recruiting. I don’t know if we target/get more Canadians than other similar schools, but I’m sure someone on here does.

Good point. We have some terrific Canadian kids coming the next few years

scoop85
Good point. We have some terrific Canadian kids coming the next few years

Must be because Yale followed Haavid and decided to give middle-class kids full tuition scholarships. Cornell tries to match, which isn’t the same as getting the original offer. Besides, Cornell can’t always match.

OTOH, when I read the Canadian press, I frequently learn that Cornell players got hockey scholarships. Most recently, I read this in Dan Lodboa’s obit. Well, if Canadian hockey players get hockey scholarships, surely Canadian lacrosse players won’t be discriminated against. So Teat, Peterson,etc. must be getting lacrosse scholarships.

Inside Lacrosse also has a list of incoming recruits. I don't know how to do a table on this forum, so instead I've added a n-tuple to each school. Interpret the n-tuple as (total number of recruits, number of 5-star recruits, number of 4-star). Nobody seems to have 3-star or lower. Since some schools have no 5-stars but lots of 4-stars, these are in alphabetical order, with the Ivies first. The rightmost numbers are the total number of stars and average stars per recruit. E.g., Brown is (12,0,5) -- 20, 1.67. The average number of stars probably overweighs 4-star recruits because 5-star recruits are at the upper bound. Some 5-stars are likely to be superstars. The average also considers players without stars to be worth zero, which is probably incorrect.

• Brown: (12,0,5) -- 20, 1.67
• Cornell: (12,2,3) -- 22, 1.83
• Dartmouth: (9,0,1) -- 4, 0.44
• Harvard: (8,0,5) -- 20, 2.50
• Penn: (14,0,5) -- 20, 1.43
• Princeton: (10,2,5) -- 30, 3.00
• Yale: (10,0,7) -- 28, 2.80
• Duke: (10,6,4) -- 46, 4.60
• JHU: (18,1,7) -- 33, 1.83
• Maryland: (15,2,11) -- 54, 3.60
• North Carolina: (12,0,7) -- 28, 2.33
• Notre Dame: (12,1,9) -- 41, 3.42
• Penn State: (14,1,6) -- 29, 2.07
• Syracuse: (15,0,5) -- 20, 1.33
• Virginia: (8,3,4) -- 31, 3.88

Note that this list is not restricted to U.S. Americans.

From the rosters of the Under Armour North/South Boys All-America Game:

School     Attack     Face-Off     Midfield     Defense     Goalie     Total Number of Players
Cornell       1          1            1                                          3
Princeton     1                       1            1                             3
Yale          1                       1            1                             3
Penn          1                                    1                             2
Brown                                              1                             1

Duke          1                       2            3                             5
Notre Dame    1                       2            1          1                  5
Virginia      1          1            1            2                             5
Maryland      1                       1                       1                  3
Michigan                              2            1                             3
Ohio State                            2*                      1                  3*
Denver        1          1                                                       2
Georgetown                            1            1                             2
Johns Hopkins                                                 1                  1
North Carolina           1                                                       1
Penn State    1                                                                  1

*One player will play football at Ohio State. (Apparently instead of lacrosse, but may be in addition to lacrosse.)

I know we badly need to improve at FOGO, but I wish we also had a defender in the game, as do the rest of the Ivies.

Swampy
I know we badly need to improve at FOGO, but I wish we also had a defender in the game, as do the rest of the Ivies.

We could use help at midfield, too. Imagine if we had someone like Penn freshman middie Sam Handley, unanimous Ivy rookie of the year, to keep the opponents' defenses from collapsing on Jeff Teat and the rest of the offense.

Don't see Harvard represented among HS North/South all-stars. Their push to the top tier seems stalled. 65-65 this decade under Chris Wojcik. One trip to the NCAAs, 2014, also the only year Harvard was first (tie) in the Ivy League. Since then 6-4-6-6-6, 65-65 overall. Wojcik is Harvard '96, captain of both soccer and lacrosse and winner of Harvard's Bingham Award to the top male athlete. How long will that protect his job? [edit add:] Multiple reports earlier in the month said he's gone.

billhoward

Swampy
I know we badly need to improve at FOGO, but I wish we also had a defender in the game, as do the rest of the Ivies.

We could use help at midfield, too. Imagine if we had someone like Penn freshman middie Sam Handley, unanimous Ivy rookie of the year, to keep the opponents' defenses from collapsing on Jeff Teat and the rest of the offense.

Don't see Harvard represented among HS North/South all-stars. Their push to the top tier seems stalled. 65-65 this decade under Chris Wojcik. One trip to the NCAAs, 2014, also the only year Harvard was first (tie) in the Ivy League. Since then 6-4-6-6-6, 65-65 overall. Wojcik is Harvard '96, captain of both soccer and lacrosse and winner of Harvard's Bingham Award to the top male athlete. How long will that protect his job?

Think he's gone already.

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

billhoward

Swampy
I know we badly need to improve at FOGO, but I wish we also had a defender in the game, as do the rest of the Ivies.

We could use help at midfield, too. Imagine if we had someone like Penn freshman middie Sam Handley, unanimous Ivy rookie of the year, to keep the opponents' defenses from collapsing on Jeff Teat and the rest of the offense.

Don't see Harvard represented among HS North/South all-stars. Their push to the top tier seems stalled. 65-65 this decade under Chris Wojcik. One trip to the NCAAs, 2014, also the only year Harvard was first (tie) in the Ivy League. Since then 6-4-6-6-6, 65-65 overall. Wojcik is Harvard '96, captain of both soccer and lacrosse and winner of Harvard's Bingham Award to the top male athlete. How long will that protect his job? [edit add:] Multiple reports earlier in the month said he's gone.

It's also notable that Syracuse is MIA in the all-star game.

Read this on the Ivy League Sports Board.

Patrick Burkinshaw has transferred from UVA to Penn. Patrick was the number 1 rated goalie coming out of high school (if you believe rankings).

Transfers are always a double edged sword because there are others in the program that must be dealt with and I'm sure they'll all compete for the starting spot next fall and spring.

Nevertheless this is a position being vacated by an All Ivy player and 4 year starter that needs to be filled. We all saw the impact this year of transfers TD Ierlan and Kyle Gallagher who were outstanding for Yale and Penn at the X.

[www.voy.com]

Breaking: BU's Chris Gray Enters NCAA's Transfer Portal

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

“There is no clear indication of his intended destination. In a message to teammates obtained by IL, Gray told teammates that his choice was not based on lacrosse reasons, but motivated by his academic ambitions.”

Ken711
Read this on the Ivy League Sports Board.

Patrick Burkinshaw has transferred from UVA to Penn. Patrick was the number 1 rated goalie coming out of high school (if you believe rankings).

Transfers are always a double edged sword because there are others in the program that must be dealt with and I'm sure they'll all compete for the starting spot next fall and spring.

Nevertheless this is a position being vacated by an All Ivy player and 4 year starter that needs to be filled. We all saw the impact this year of transfers TD Ierlan and Kyle Gallagher who were outstanding for Yale and Penn at the X.

[www.voy.com]

And I believe our own Chayse Ierlan was the #2 ranked goalie in the 2018 HS graduating class.

jeff '84
Breaking: BU's Chris Gray Enters NCAA's Transfer Portal
[www.insidelacrosse.com]
“There is no clear indication of his intended destination. In a message to teammates obtained by IL, Gray told teammates that his choice was not based on lacrosse reasons, but motivated by his academic ambitions.”

Gray is/was in BU's College of General Studies (CGS). Also home to a goodly portion of the BU hockey team. Within other parts of BU, CGS is known as Crayons, Glue, Scissors.

Ken711
Read this on the Ivy League Sports Board.

Patrick Burkinshaw has transferred from UVA to Penn. Patrick was the number 1 rated goalie coming out of high school (if you believe rankings).
Transfers are always a double edged sword because there are others in the program that must be dealt with and I'm sure they'll all compete for the starting spot next fall and spring.
Nevertheless this is a position being vacated by an All Ivy player and 4 year starter that needs to be filled. We all saw the impact this year of transfers TD Ierlan and Kyle Gallagher who were outstanding for Yale and Penn at the X.

[www.voy.com]

Burkinshaw started two games, played in 11, had almost 200 minutes of playing time, mostly early (the season was 1200 minutes). Either the coaches saw him as close to eventual starter Alex Rode, they wanted to give him mop-up minutes, or maybe they feared he was unhappy already and they didn't want him jumping ship. Burkinshaw was a freshman, Rode a sophomore.

billhoward

jeff '84
Breaking: BU's Chris Gray Enters NCAA's Transfer Portal
[www.insidelacrosse.com]
“There is no clear indication of his intended destination. In a message to teammates obtained by IL, Gray told teammates that his choice was not based on lacrosse reasons, but motivated by his academic ambitions.”

Gray is/was in BU's College of General Studies (CGS). Also home to a goodly portion of the BU hockey team. Within other parts of BU, CGS is known as Crayons, Glue, Scissors.

CGS is a two-year college for incoming freshmen, after which they continue on in regular majors, including the most academically demanding, such as pre-med or engineering. It was started after WW II to help students attending under the G.I. Bill reacclimate to academic pursuits after being away from school for 5-10 years.

In recent years it’s been used for students with good enough H.S. records to gain admission but some weakness that suggests a need for a different approach. This largely consists of a very structured curriculum of coordinated required courses covering subjects most other schools with liberal arts requirements require. The individual courses themselves are team-taught by CGS faculty and may be designed to combine multiple subjects (e.g. a writing-intensive course covering Western history with extra emphasis on the context & impacts of scientific discoveries taken in sync with another course on scientific concepts timed to cover them when the “history” course does.)

I’m actually a fan of this approach. It’s not that different from what I had my first two years in Engineering at Cornell: a curriculum of coordinated required courses with only 1-2 electives. Obviously the subject matter is different, and the courses are interdisciplinary, but the structured approach and wholistic pedagogy is similar. My biggest criticism is that CGS has no math requirement.

I think the approach is far superior to what many schools do these days: have unstructured Gen. Ed. requirements often in a “University College.” It’s common to have incoming students choose 40 credit hours of courses from well over 10,000 hours of course offerings. Frequently these offerings are by departments competing to build their numbers by offering entertaining gut Gen-Ed courses for non-majors.

If we accept BU recruiting so many hockey players who leave early and go pro as a constraint, CGS may actually be an excellent educational option for them. At least this way they leave with a cohesive liberal arts education of one, two, or three years, rather than a patchwork of random courses that may even be less academically challenging.

Obviously this last point is difficult to judge. By channeling “weaker” students to CGS, BU clearly lowers the potential level of academic work, at least initially. But I’ve heard BU professors say that when students enter their majors in their junior year, the ones from CGS are often better prepared than than those who went into A&S straight out of high school. So there’s some evidence CGS achieves its goal of raising students’ academic capabilities.

Compare this to, say, Arizona State, which has been characterized as a “factory of credentialing” and a professor there once told me is a school that accepts anyone and graduates everyone who shows up for a significant number of class sessions. Yet its President claims — and both Democrat and Republican politicians salute — this as great democratization of higher education — a claim that could be true only if the the education itself is not a sham. The big issue, of course, is how to tell if it is.

Swampy
If we accept BU recruiting so many hockey players who leave early and go pro as a constraint, CGS may actually be an excellent educational option for them. At least this way they leave with a cohesive liberal arts education of one, two, or three years, rather than a patchwork of random courses that may even be less academically challenging.

CGS may well work as you've described, and not a bad idea. But: There may be some with lesser educational-attainment prospects. Say, student-athletes who fall into the academic cohort "dumb as a rock." BU does recruit in Massachusetts towns such as Marblehead.

(In fairness to BU, it's a far better school than 40 years ago. On many rankings it's a top-fifty US university. Credit to John Silber, BU's hot-headed president who alienated faculty and students, yet when he left in 1996 after 26 years at BU, it was markedly better. Silber is one of America's few college presidents who managed to unite the faculty as one.)

Swampy

billhoward

jeff '84
Breaking: BU's Chris Gray Enters NCAA's Transfer Portal
[www.insidelacrosse.com]
“There is no clear indication of his intended destination. In a message to teammates obtained by IL, Gray told teammates that his choice was not based on lacrosse reasons, but motivated by his academic ambitions.”

Gray is/was in BU's College of General Studies (CGS). Also home to a goodly portion of the BU hockey team. Within other parts of BU, CGS is known as Crayons, Glue, Scissors.

.........

Compare this to, say, Arizona State, which has been characterized as a “factory of credentialing” and a professor there once told me is a school that accepts anyone and graduates everyone who shows up for a significant number of class sessions. Yet its President claims — and both Democrat and Republican politicians salute — this as great democratization of higher education — a claim that could be true only if the the education itself is not a sham. The big issue, of course, is how to tell if it is.

What we really need is to found an institution where any person can find instruction in any study. But where would we ever find that?

Harvard just got a significant coaching upgrade:

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

I just heard of this.

ryan maloney injured

upprdeck
I just heard of this.

ryan maloney injured

Awful news

scoop85

upprdeck
I just heard of this.

ryan maloney injured

Awful news

That just sucks.

Inside Lacrosse reports on the latest trimmed roster of 32 players left in the USA U-19 pool. For Cornell fans, the news is awful.

Inside Lacrosse
Yale is the college program with the most commits on the 32- man roster, with five. Ohio State and Duke each have four players.

Other notable bits: Harvard and Princeton each have one player left in the pool, but Cornell has none; ten of the 32 players are from NY, including Penn State's Edward Boland from Victor.

Swampy
Inside Lacrosse reports on the latest trimmed roster of 32 players left in the USA U-19 pool. For Cornell fans, the news is awful.

Inside Lacrosse
Yale is the college program with the most commits on the 32- man roster, with five. Ohio State and Duke each have four players.

Other notable bits: Harvard and Princeton each have one player left in the pool, but Cornell has none; ten of the 32 players are from NY, including Penn State's Edward Boland from Victor.

I think you're overstating this. We have a good class coming in, with 3 Under Armour All Americans for the 1st time.

scoop85

Swampy
Inside Lacrosse reports on the latest trimmed roster of 32 players left in the USA U-19 pool. For Cornell fans, the news is awful.

Inside Lacrosse
Yale is the college program with the most commits on the 32- man roster, with five. Ohio State and Duke each have four players.

Other notable bits: Harvard and Princeton each have one player left in the pool, but Cornell has none; ten of the 32 players are from NY, including Penn State's Edward Boland from Victor.

I think you're overstating this. We have a good class coming in, with 3 Under Armour All Americans for the 1st time.

Hope you're right. Still, Yale having 5 candidates for the national team is scary.

Jeff Hopkins '82

scoop85

upprdeck
I just heard of this.

ryan maloney injured

Awful news

That just sucks.

[url=https://t.co/jk4HjWTYLD

Unforgettable morning with inspirational people. #RPM14 #murph #together #gameday #onevoiceoneteam #WD>WS #LGR pic.twitter.com/jk4HjWTYLD

— Big Red Lacrosse (@CornellLacrosse) September 14, 2019

?s=17]Ryan Maloney attends Lax practice.[/url]

[cornellbigred.com]

A little detail on freshman who will play spring 2020. The top 24 of the [www.insidelacrosse.com] top 100 are rated 5-star recruits. Duke gets 4, Virginia gets 3, Cornell 2, Yale 2, Denver 2, Georgetown 2, Michigan 2, Princeton 1, Penn and Penn State 1 apiece, Ohio State 1, Syracuse 0. Duke and Michigan poach one each from Cornell turf, the Hill Academy.

Connor Shellenberger | A | St. Anne’s Belfield (Va.) | Virginia
Kenny Brower         | D | Massapequa (N.Y.) | Duke
Dyson Williams       | A | Hill Academy (Ont.) | Duke
Alec Stathakis       | FO | Culver (Ind.) | Denver
Graham Bundy         | M | MICDS (Mo.) | Georgetown
BJ Burlace           | D | St. Mary’s (Md.) | Yale
Jake Caputo          | M | Middle Creek (N.C.) | Duke
James Donaldson      | D | Brother Rice (Mich.) | Georgetown
Michael Long         | A | Delbarton (N.J.) | Cornell
Sammy English        | M | Culver (Ind.) | Princeton
Angelo Petrakis      | FO | Massapequa (N.Y.) | Cornell
Grant Mitchell       | M | Calvert Hall (Md.) | Ohio State
Quentin Matsui       | D | Eden Prairie (Minn.) | Virginia
Will Frisoli         | D | St. Sebastian’s (Mass.) | Duke
Scott Bower          | D | Episcopal Dallas (Texas) | Virginia
Conor Calderone      | FO | Smithtown West (N.Y.) | Maryland
Canyon Birch         | A | Manasquan (N.J.) | Penn State
Ryan Schriber        | D | Wilton (Conn.) | Michigan
JJ Sillstrop         | A | La Costa Canyon (Calif.) | Denver
Liam Entenmann       | G | Chaminade (N.Y.) | Notre Dame
Robert Schain        | A | Bullis (Md.) | Penn
Logan McNaney        | G | Salisbury (Conn.) | Maryland
Josh Zawada          | A | Hill Academy (Ont.) | Michigan
Patrick Hackler      | M | Skaneateles (N.Y.) | Yale

Let's hope Petrakis lives up to the high school honors. We need a real FOGO.

Petterson drafted 5th, Tarbell 11th in NLL draft...not that I'd ever watch a game

Al DeFlorio
Petterson drafted 5th, Tarbell 11th in NLL draft...not that I'd ever watch a game

Serious question: is it more professional volleyball where it's all just a vehicle to sell expensive sports gear and camps to rich date rapists from Westchester and Suffolk County, or is it a deeply covert jai alai where the works are fixed for gambling and money laundering except the money comes from gangly Dartmouth Wall Street coke addicts rather than strung out Cuban human traffickers?

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Petterson drafted 5th, Tarbell 11th in NLL draft...not that I'd ever watch a game

Serious question: is it more professional volleyball where it's all just a vehicle to sell expensive sports gear and camps to rich date rapists from Westchester and Suffolk County, or is it a deeply covert jai alai where the works are fixed for gambling and money laundering except the money comes from gangly Dartmouth Wall Street coke addicts rather than strung out Cuban human traffickers?

It's more of an opportunity to spit in the face of cynics who, frustrated with their own lives of shattered dreams, refuse to allow others to explore and profit from their human potential.

Roy 82

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Petterson drafted 5th, Tarbell 11th in NLL draft...not that I'd ever watch a game

Serious question: is it more professional volleyball where it's all just a vehicle to sell expensive sports gear and camps to rich date rapists from Westchester and Suffolk County, or is it a deeply covert jai alai where the works are fixed for gambling and money laundering except the money comes from gangly Dartmouth Wall Street coke addicts rather than strung out Cuban human traffickers?

It's more of an opportunity to spit in the face of cynics who, frustrated with their own lives of shattered dreams, refuse to allow others to explore and profit from their human potential.

Ah. The date rapist one. Got it.

Roy 82

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Petterson drafted 5th, Tarbell 11th in NLL draft...not that I'd ever watch a game

Serious question: is it more professional volleyball where it's all just a vehicle to sell expensive sports gear and camps to rich date rapists from Westchester and Suffolk County, or is it a deeply covert jai alai where the works are fixed for gambling and money laundering except the money comes from gangly Dartmouth Wall Street coke addicts rather than strung out Cuban human traffickers?

It's more of an opportunity to spit in the face of cynics who, frustrated with their own lives of shattered dreams, refuse to allow others to explore and profit from their human potential.

Oh snap!

Fallball scrimmage today against Maryland. Reports from the forum at fanlax.com:

Velvet.Fog
Beautiful day at St. Anthony’s. Full recap to come - but had overall score at Cor 15 MD 13. MD came out fast and led 6-2 after 1Q. Cornell won a strong Q2 by 7-2. Halftime: Cor 9 MD 8.

Third quarter was 4-3 Cornell. Some key starters (Teat, Irelan and Piatelli) pulled with 9 minutes left in Q3. Same on MD side. Q4 was tied at 2. All starters pulled by Q4.

Both teams pretty sharp. FOs were pretty even. Maybe slight edge to Cornell. Goalie play strong - particularly Chase Ierlan.

More to come.

RedIvy
Petrakis didn’t play today so hopefully FO’s look stronger come spring.

Slow start but team looked good against good competition.... Long and Lombardi look like they will be big part of the offense this year.

Very good day.

Men’s Lacrosse Reveals 2020 Schedule

@ University at Albany
Feb 15 (Sat) 1:00 p.m.

@ Towson University
Feb 21 (Fri) 4:00 p.m.

vs High Point University
@ Baltimore, Md.
Feb 23 (Sun) 1:00 p.m.

@ Ohio State University
Mar 1 (Sun) 12:00 p.m.

vs Penn State University
@ Charlotte, N.C.
Mar 8 (Sun) 4:00 p.m.

Yale University
Mar 14 (Sat) 1:00 p.m.

@ University of Pennsylvania
Mar 21 (Sat) 2:00 p.m.

Colgate University
Mar 24 (Tue) 7:30 p.m.

@ Dartmouth College
Mar 28 (Sat)
Hanover, N.H. 1:00 p.m.

Hobart College
Mar 31 (Tue) 7:30 p.m.

Harvard University
Apr 4 (Sat) 1:00 p.m.

Syracuse University
Apr 7 (Tue) 7:30 p.m.

Brown University
Apr 18 (Sat) 3:00 p.m.

@ Princeton University
Apr 25 (Sat) 12:00 p.m.

Is there ever any thought in lacrosse of home and homes with "western" powers like Denver or Notre Dame? We seem to play the same schedule every year. I'd like us to be more like hockey and less like football.

Trotsky
Is there ever any thought in lacrosse of home and homes with "western" powers like Denver or Notre Dame? We seem to play the same schedule every year. I'd like us to be more like hockey and less like football.

we played at ND last year, but they aren't coming to Ithaca this year. It's possible we played them on Long Island the previous year as our "home" game, but I don't recall and don't have time right now to look into it.

That's a brutal early schedule. Good chance first seven games will be against top 10-15 ranked teams. My main beef is the Ivy rotation is the same each year. It would be nice if it varied some so we don't always get top 2 contenders as our first league games every year - but then there is only one cupcake in the league this year.

TimV
That's a brutal early schedule. Good chance first seven games will be against top 10-15 ranked teams. My main beef is the Ivy rotation is the same each year. It would be nice if it varied some so we don't always get top 2 contenders as our first league games every year - but then there is only one cupcake in the league this year.

And of course it wasn't that long ago that Yale was a "cupcake," so starting off with them in Ivy play gave us a nice start. But no more.

TimV
That's a brutal early schedule. Good chance first seven games will be against top 10-15 ranked teams.

Isn't High Point some tiny evangy loon college? How did they get good?

Edit: no, they're a much bigger (5k) and non-psychotic school. I was mixing them up with somebody else (Grove City probably).

Trotsky

TimV
That's a brutal early schedule. Good chance first seven games will be against top 10-15 ranked teams.

Isn't High Point some tiny evangy loon college? How did they get good?

Edit: no, they're a much bigger (5k) and non-psychotic school. I was mixing them up with somebody else (Grove City probably).

High Point is a marketing driven school: A golf cart with your name greats a HS student visitor and family. The dorms are great. The academics are acceptable and families who have a student with a learning difference can, for a fee, pay for mandatory study and coaching sessions. There are also a lot of rules like no posters on the walls of common areas. The accept rate is around 80%. (Hobart is around 60%.)

Grove City is a Christian in very western PA that refuses federal grants so it can tell the feds and their rules such as Title IX to buzz off.

According to this article, we have one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the country. If we don't get the automatic Ivy bid, we're going to have to earn our way into the tournament with some wins against strong non-league opponents.

Opener Feb. 15 at Albany. What's the indoor facility that's backup in case it snows? At this point, the hockey team could have 2 months of action left.

Hobart is March 30. Why? Hobart in recent years has been a less-challenging opponent, so why not use this game to open 2020?

Most of tough games are on the road. We start away from home (2/21 to 3/8) with Albany, High Point, Ohio State, Penn State. Also on the road for Penn and Princeton. All of them are potential top 20, even HP. Only home games vs. likely top-20s (per NCAA.com) are Yale and Syracuse: 2 of 14 games. Brutal. (This poll has Cornell 11th.) I hope the team bus has good Wifi so they can keep up with classwork.

Colgate is back, which is good. Lehigh is out, which was a decent and challenging game against a nearby team that could be top-20 just not every year. The be-decent-to-NYS-lax game against St. Bona is fortunately a one-timer and done; I hope they paid a good travel honorarium.

Suddenly someone'll say, like, "plate," or "shrimp," or "plate of shrimp" out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconsciousness.

billhoward

Trotsky

TimV
That's a brutal early schedule. Good chance first seven games will be against top 10-15 ranked teams.

Isn't High Point some tiny evangy loon college? How did they get good?

Edit: no, they're a much bigger (5k) and non-psychotic school. I was mixing them up with somebody else (Grove City probably).

High Point is a marketing driven school: A golf cart with your name greats a HS student visitor and family. The dorms are great. The academics are acceptable and families who have a student with a learning difference can, for a fee, pay for mandatory study and coaching sessions. There are also a lot of rules like no posters on the walls of common areas. The accept rate is around 80%. (Hobart is around 60%.)

Grove City is a Christian in very western PA that refuses federal grants so it can tell the feds and their rules such as Title IX to buzz off.

High Point is basically a resort for rich kids who lack brain cells.

CU2007
High Point is basically a resort for rich kids who lack brain cells.

Leave Dartmouth out of this.

Trotsky

CU2007
High Point is basically a resort for rich kids who lack brain cells.

Leave Dartmouth out of this.

Nice

Jeff Hopkins '82
Let's hope Petrakis lives up to the high school honors. We need a real FOGO.

+1

December assessment has Cornell ranked #12 in the Inside Lacrosse Top 20 photo slideshow.

The word on Cornell is here: [www.insidelacrosse.com]

Inside Lacrosse
The Big Red will go as far as their defense and FOGO. Remember, they were preseason No. 5 in 2019 with superstar Jeff Teat and didn't make the NCAA Tournament because of defensive issues.

The story from the top: [www.insidelacrosse.com]
1 Virginia (2019 champion over Yale)
2 Penn State (lost to Yale in semis)
3 Yale
4 Maryland
5 Penn

Inside Lacrosse published Face-Off Yearbook's Preseason Men's D1 Media All-Americans. One Cornellian made the Third Team: Jeff Teat. Honorable mentions for Connor Fletcher and Brandon Salvatore.

OTOH, other Ivy selections include 5 from Yale (one on each of the first 3 teams plus two HM's), 3 from Penn (1st, 2nd, & 3), 2 from Princeton (1st & 2nd team), & 1 HM from Brown. Dartmouth & Harvard had none.

you can get cornell at 50-1 for the field bet if you can find it and are so inclined in vegas..

IL just named PSU the preseason #1 pick.

My stomach hurts when I think of how Tambroni got away.

Swampy
IL just named PSU the preseason #1 pick.

My stomach hurts when I think of how Tambroni got away.

What's the story on this? Did he see PSU as the better chance at a national title?

PSU made a commitment to upgrading their lax program, and made him a great offer. That his wife is a PSU alum didn't hurt.

PSU took money to create good hockey Lacrosse money.. Cornell takes money to build a college 200 miles from campus and then spend every free dollar to upgrade it and not actually spend money on the real campus.

upprdeck
Cornell takes money to build a college 200 miles from campus and then spend every free dollar to upgrade it and not actually spend money on the real campus.

That campus is going to return so much grant money those decision makers will retire very, very, very rich.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of CU Engineering vacates Ithaca someday. (Good. We can go back to being an Arts & Ag school. Plow under the Eng quad and replant the trees). Cornell Tech is going to be a license to 3D print money like only Stanford has seen. It's going to come in handy when we yank their tax-exempt status.

Trotsky

upprdeck
Cornell takes money to build a college 200 miles from campus and then spend every free dollar to upgrade it and not actually spend money on the real campus.

That campus is going to return so much grant money those decision makers will retire very, very, very rich.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of CU Engineering vacates Ithaca someday. (Good. We can go back to being an Arts & Ag school. Plow under the Eng quad and replant the trees). Cornell Tech is going to be a license to 3D print money like only Stanford has seen. It's going to come in handy when we yank their tax-exempt status.

I’m not sure if this was said in jest, but if not can you point me in the direction of something useful regarding the tax-exempt debate? Something I’ve always wondered about

Trotsky

I wouldn't be surprised if all of CU Engineering vacates Ithaca someday. (Good. We can go back to being an Arts & Ag school. Plow under the Eng quad and replant the trees).

Some trees would be good, but it would also be a great location for a full size football/lacrosse/soccer indoor facility.

TimV

Trotsky

I wouldn't be surprised if all of CU Engineering vacates Ithaca someday. (Good. We can go back to being an Arts & Ag school. Plow under the Eng quad and replant the trees).

Some trees would be good, but it would also be a great location for a full size football/lacrosse/soccer indoor facility.

It would sure add importance to that long time rivalry with Columbia

how does grant money really help the college? a small amount is kept, but research money doesnt really stay all that local for alot of this stuff.. it does pad the Profs salary though.

upprdeck
how does grant money really help the college? a small amount is kept, but research money doesnt really stay all that local for alot of this stuff.. it does pad the Profs salary though.

You're right about grant money leaking out of the local economy. But this is far more likely in Ithaca than, say, New York City.

The amounts that pad faculty salaries are not that much. Grant money for salaries usually goes either for "release time," which buys out teaching obligations to free time up for research, or it goes for summer salary (and possibly winter if Cornell considers faculty off rather than employed during winter break). Release time substitutes but doesn't add to the salary. Summer salary is typically 25% to 33% of the usual 9-month academic year salary. So yeah, if a prof is making $100K per year, summer salary can make it $133K instead: substantial as a percentage increase, but hardly Jeff Bezos territory.

Lots of universities will use the money they save on salaries bought out for release time to hire graduate students, ABD's, and post-docs at a fraction of the Prof's salary. So universities love that because they can save big bucks by not having to pay regular faculty rates, in addition to collecting lots of overhead money.

Most grant money goes to equipment, graduate students, and the occasional postdoc or research scientist. If a center or some other organizational unit is involved, a good chunk might go to clerical & professional staff, and the like.

Then again, Cornell itself probably takes a substantial cut. E.g., suppose Cornell's federally approved overhead rate is 50%, which means on any grant's direct costs, overhead is an additional 50%. So a grant for $1 million in direct costs would bring in $1.5 mil. Now at most serious research universities this would be split something like the following: 50% to the university for heating, lighting, university police, maintenance, and other things not directly connected to the research; 50% of the remainder, or $250K in this example, to the prof's college, for similar stuff at the college level (e.g. clerical staff), and the remaining 25% would go to the prof's department for things like computers used for both teaching & research (which can't be treated as a direct cost because they're not dedicated solely to the individual research project). And at most serious research universities, the department will split its share of overhead with the P.I., who might then use it for things like travel to conferences, special computer equipment, books, etc.: stuff that's not necessarily related to the research per se, although it often is for things that can be used for both teaching and the research (e.g., lab equipment or a portable projector). Most universities don't allow individual profs to pay themselves out of overhead, especially since that's something funding agencies are willing to pay for. OTOH, it might be that a college, for example, is particularly interested in developing a track record in a certain kind of research and therefore use its overhead money to buy out certain professors' time or give new faculty members "start-up money." Or a university could use overhead to increase faculty salaries, in selected departments or across the board. But if so, the university better be sure the source of funds won't dry up; otherwise, it may have to raise tuition, etc. to pay for the new, higher salaries. Nonetheless, any grant monies paid as salary will typically replace another source or be confined to small-scale augmentation through summer salary and the like.

Of course, seminal research can lead to promotions and pay increases, but that's another story.

I'm glad we never have thread drift anymore.

TimV

Trotsky

I wouldn't be surprised if all of CU Engineering vacates Ithaca someday. (Good. We can go back to being an Arts & Ag school. Plow under the Eng quad and replant the trees).

Some trees would be good, but it would also be a great location for a full size football/lacrosse/soccer indoor facility.

By the time this happens football will be illegal outside the slave states.

some of this is true.. over head is a bit off.. profs salary is not always a part of the grant depends on the prof and the research required.. roughl 70% of the money goes to staffing like grads.. 10-20 % for materials 10-20% for supplies . also a million dollar grant could be 1-5 yrs or so so when you break that down by yr its way less than it seems when you factor in 70-80K for a grad student.

then add travel/conferences and everything adds up.

but overhead doesnt really add all that much to the campus if you take even 50% spread over 5 yrs thats 100k a yr. by the time you add cost of doing the overhead its pretty much a zero sum game and in some cases the overhead actually costs more than the grants..

the big issue is that the endowment is taking a hit.. some of the big hitters are earmarking funds to NYC and the central campus is actually getting less money than ever and overhead of the start up is really killing some budgets.

scoop85
I'm glad we never have thread drift anymore.

There’s no chance for drifts with so many plow drivers.

scoop85
I'm glad we never have thread drift anymore.

But what amazing thread drift. Actually a useful discussion about grant funding, how much covers overhead, how much overhead there is.

The drift raised an interesting question about whether money going to Cornell Tech in NYC is stripping the Ithaca campus bare of alumni donor dollars. The big donation for Cornell Tech was all the money of our lifetime we spent on duty free liquor in the DuFry airport stores of Chuck Feeney '56, who then turned around and through his Atlantic Philanthropies gave ~ $1B back to Cornell, of which $350M was the seed money for Cornell Tech. He also gave away $7B to non-Cornell good works. (So is Cornell happy to see $1B, or pissed at getting shafted on the other $7B?)

Sort of like thread drift: I like also that Feeney worked it out so Atlantic Philanthropies gave all the money during his lifetime and there's no chance of mission drift, where the donor's wishes wind up being twisted by future charity trustees. Princeton got hammered in a lawsuit a decade ago where money donated by the A&P heirs (about 6% of Princeton's total endowment) that was intended to prepare Woodrow Wilson School students for government service. The Wall Street Journal edit page people were all over this one because to them it was another example of a grant being twisted toward more liberal / progressive uses once the university got its hands on the cash. Princeton maintains it did no wrong but still it gave back $100M. WSJ story (not editorial): [www.wsj.com]

billhoward

scoop85
I'm glad we never have thread drift anymore.

Sort of like thread drift: I like also that Feeney worked it out so Atlantic Philanthropies gave all the money during his lifetime and there's no chance of mission drift,

RPI had their version of this too. Except that their big donor decided to give the money to St. Elsewhere.

(I really admired Dr. Medicus for giving the over 10 million outright rather than setting up a foundation with its requisite banker-attorney-trustee yearly vig.)

First day practice at Bartels. (I think that's Bartels.)

[www.instagram.com]

is it bartels doesnt look right to me?

They had scrimmages yesterday vs. D3 Cortland and York at the Pinnacle Athletic Campus in Victor, NY according to the Cornell thread at FanLax

mike1960
First day practice at Bartels. (I think that's Bartels.)
[www.instagram.com]

Duke and Virginia have probably played 5 games now before the Ivies start up.

billhoward

mike1960
First day practice at Bartels. (I think that's Bartels.)
[www.instagram.com]

Duke and Virginia have probably played 5 games now before the Ivies start up.

This is the business we have chosen.

#7 Duke lost to Air Force yesterday.

So it begins....

Swampy
#7 Duke lost to Air Force yesterday.

So it begins....

There's no panic in Durham. Duke lacrosse always starts slow. They have a plan for the year and know how to finish strong.

mike1960
First day practice at Bartels. (I think that's Bartels.)

[www.instagram.com]

Maybe it's James. (For those old enough to remember 80's TV commercials)

cth95

mike1960
First day practice at Bartels. (I think that's Bartels.)

[www.instagram.com]

Maybe it's James. (For those old enough to remember 80's TV commercials)

Bert & I should have sued those fuckers into penury.

two opponents on espn+ now: colgate v syracuse [www.espn.com]

'Cuse currently up 5-3 early in Q2

ugarte
two opponents on espn+ now: colgate v syracuse [www.espn.com]

'Cuse currently up 5-3 early in Q2

Colgate has not had possession since I posted this and Syracuse is now up 8-3. Under 2:30 has elapsed.

ugarte
two opponents on espn+ now: colgate v syracuse [www.espn.com]

'Cuse currently up 5-3 early in Q2

If you need to see more lacrosse (as I do), Manhattan is playing Navy and it's available via webcast.

[watchstadium.com]

billhoward

mike1960
First day practice at Bartels. (I think that's Bartels.)
[www.instagram.com]

Duke and Virginia have probably played 5 games now before the Ivies start up.

Just saw a game at the Marquette Atheletic Dome in Milwaukee. Not the greatest in terms of seating space and lighting but certainly not bad to have a 60 degree place to practice and play in early February. 3.6 million. I think Cornell might have that much laying around.

[onmilwaukee.com]

Got this email today from Albany athletics folks:

"We are planning on streaming the game on the ESPN platform, but the have not told us if it will be on ESPN3 or ESPN+ yet. We will update the links on our website as soon as they let us know."

Al DeFlorio
Got this email today from Albany athletics folks:

"We are planning on streaming the game on the ESPN platform, but the have not told us if it will be on ESPN3 or ESPN+ yet. We will update the links on our website as soon as they let us know."

i think espn3 is free with an espn account but espn+ is the paid service. if you have + there's no difference.

watchespn is only free if you have a tv service that provides it. Most of the major ones do.

Looks like it will be espn+.

Three penalties first six minutes vs. Albany.

Al DeFlorio
Three penalties first six minutes vs. Albany.

Tim Graham's been doing a nice job as FOGO so far. Chase Ierlan has been solid. The slide defense has been terrific, esp. on Nanticoke. They're taking too many shots from outside. A little more patience for the good shot might work better.

mike1960

Al DeFlorio
Three penalties first six minutes vs. Albany.

Tim Graham's been doing a nice job as FOGO so far. Chase Ierlan has been solid. The slide defense has been terrific, esp. on Nanticoke. They're taking too many shots from outside. A little more patience for the good shot might work better.

I'm watching the wrestling against Binghamton but needless to say that after the general negativity I was surprised to see that the halftime score is Cornell 7, Albany 3.

7-3 at the half. Team looking quite impressive for the first game of the season. Not a lot to criticize.

ugarte

mike1960

Al DeFlorio
Three penalties first six minutes vs. Albany.

Tim Graham's been doing a nice job as FOGO so far. Chase Ierlan has been solid. The slide defense has been terrific, esp. on Nanticoke. They're taking too many shots from outside. A little more patience for the good shot might work better.

I'm watching the wrestling against Binghamton but needless to say that after the general negativity I was surprised to see that the halftime score is Cornell 7, Albany 3.

They've played well so far. It's nice hearing a lot of familiar names. It feels like this is a good veteran team.

Cornell completely dominating, winning every faceoff, scoring at will. Now 14-3 with 5 min to go in the 3rd

19-10 final.

CU77
Cornell completely dominating, winning every faceoff, scoring at will. Now 14-3 with 5 min to go in the 3rd

Teat did not have a high-scoring game and he wasn't locked off, but he team still scored a lot of goals. I think this bodes well for the season when other players create opportunities and take advantage of them. Michael Long, the freshman, looked really good in X. He forced a couple of passes and turned the ball over, but for his first game I think he did well. The defense kind of let down in the fourth and didn't press on the outside shots. Also, the defense allowed a couple of back door and front door scores. This was an issue last year as well. Those are slam dunks and cry for a solution. It's hard to say how well Raz, Tim Graham, and Petrakis, the freshman, performed at FOGO. I have a feeling the Albany FOGOs are not that strong. We'll see in future games. Great start for the season! Here we go again!

14 or 15 goals scored by middies/FoGo. That works for me, especially when people think Teat is our main weapon.