Cornell lacrosse 2018

Fantastic win, heartiest congrats to all players and coaches!!!

Home game a possibility, have to see which direction the random noise added by the committee happens to point this year.

CU77
Home game a possibility, have to see which direction the random noise added by the committee happens to point this year.

+1 Such a polite comment. Like a Junior Leaguer who says, "My, how nice" rather than "Up yours"

Sun story here: [cornellsun.com]

Another screw-job of Cornell by the selection committee in its respective sport.

Robbed in the seeding. Carcaterra spelled it out: Conference tournament winner, higher RPI than Syracuse, and beat Syracuse head to head, but Syracuse gets the home game. Total nonsense.

djk26
Congratulations to Yale, your 2018 Ivy League men's lacrosse tournament champions.

SO happy to eat my words. I am pleasantly surprised, and very impressed. Congratulations to Cornell, good luck in the NCAA tournament. Let's go Red!

Committee random noise goes against Cornell.

i cant believe they admitted on TV they dont care about the eye test at all its all in some random numbers they use to slot teams, but they dont even use that consistently.

upprdeck
i cant believe they admitted on TV they dont care about the eye test at all its all in some random numbers they use to slot teams, but they dont even use that consistently.

It's whatever they need to get to the result they wanted. If the numbers had been flipped, we would have heard "Syracuse beat them head to head." You have to think the NCAA looks at Putin's Russia as a role model.

(Yes, that was hyperbolic hyperbole).

Whatever. We're going to have to beat some good teams in the tournament. I'm not even sure Syracuse is a good team, so bring em' on

I agree with everything y'all have said. But this may actually work in our favor.

For Cornell playing in Syracuse is a lot better than playing in, say, South Bend or Denver. We should be able to travel to the dome, especially if the administration arranges buses, incentives, etc. So this could match any fan advantage the 'Cuse might have. Cornell travels very well.

OTOH, this will allow Milliman to instill a chip on the team's shoulders. Desko will have his team looking for revenge on the earlier loss, and there was a danger that Cornell would be overconfident. Now, with the latest NC$$ slight, fuck that! Kick the selection committee in the teeth.

LGR!

Swampy
I agree with everything y'all have said. But this may actually work in our favor.

For Cornell playing in Syracuse is a lot better than playing in, say, South Bend or Denver. We should be able to travel to the dome, especially if the administration arranges buses, incentives, etc. So this could match any fan advantage the 'Cuse might have. Cornell travels very well.

OTOH, this will allow Milliman to instill a chip on the team's shoulders. Desko will have his team looking for revenge on the earlier loss, and there was a danger that Cornell would be overconfident. Now, with the latest NC$$ slight, fuck that! Kick the selection committee in the teeth.

LGR!

After my initial frustration, I started thinking in these same terms—we’ll have a “no respect” chip on our shoulders that should counteract the SU “revenge game” storyline. That being said the seeding rationale is nonsense.

scoop85

Swampy
I agree with everything y'all have said. But this may actually work in our favor.

For Cornell playing in Syracuse is a lot better than playing in, say, South Bend or Denver. We should be able to travel to the dome, especially if the administration arranges buses, incentives, etc. So this could match any fan advantage the 'Cuse might have. Cornell travels very well.

OTOH, this will allow Milliman to instill a chip on the team's shoulders. Desko will have his team looking for revenge on the earlier loss, and there was a danger that Cornell would be overconfident. Now, with the latest NC$$ slight, fuck that! Kick the selection committee in the teeth.

LGR!

After my initial frustration, I started thinking in these same terms—we’ll have a “no respect” chip on our shoulders that should counteract the SU “revenge game” storyline. That being said the seeding rationale is nonsense.

I hope you folks are right. A Sunday night game in the cavern of the dome: I don't like it. Not at all.

Busy day at Carrier Dome. Graduation runs 9am to noon Sunday. Good luck parking.

Max Siebald and I are now having flashbacks.
If I have to park in Camillus, I'll be there.
(Not that my presence will have any effect on the outcome?)

In any event.....

SU (again)

"Let's Go Red!!"

Swampy
I agree with everything y'all have said. But this may actually work in our favor.

For Cornell playing in Syracuse is a lot better than playing in, say, South Bend or Denver. We should be able to travel to the dome, especially if the administration arranges buses, incentives, etc. So this could match any fan advantage the 'Cuse might have. Cornell travels very well.

OTOH, this will allow Milliman to instill a chip on the team's shoulders. Desko will have his team looking for revenge on the earlier loss, and there was a danger that Cornell would be overconfident. Now, with the latest NC$$ slight, fuck that! Kick the selection committee in the teeth.

LGR!

Can we send Jason Kelce up there (in full Mummers regalia) to wind them up for the game?

no doubt it will be a better game not playing in the rain which is the forecast right now.. reality is its only a bit further if you dont live in town.

Still just NCAA being dumb.. I also imagine attendance is built in.. there will be a bigger crowd in the Dome.

mike1960
Robbed in the seeding. Carcaterra spelled it out: Conference tournament winner, higher RPI than Syracuse, and beat Syracuse head to head, but Syracuse gets the home game. Total nonsense.

Strength-of-Schedule has always been the most important factor in lacrosse. It's not how you play; it's who you play. (Unless that goes against the ACC, which it almost never does.) All that matters is finding a way to "reward" Maryland, Duke, Hopkins, Virginia, and Syracuse with the highest seeds possible.

Frankly, I'm amazed they didn't find a way to wedge North Carolina into the field.

upprdeck
no doubt it will be a better game not playing in the rain which is the forecast right now.. reality is its only a bit further if you don't live in town. Still just NCAA being dumb. I also imagine attendance is built in.. there will be a bigger crowd in the Dome.

Q.E.D.

As for Cornell game location: Syracuse undergrads are gone. Graduation was in the morning and those still marooned in Syracuse are stuck having dinner with parents and great aunts.

2018 D1 men's lacrosse seedings
1 Md - Canisius/Robbie Morris
2 Albany - Richmond
3 Yale - Umass
4 Duke - Villanova
5 Hopkins - Georgetown
6 Loyola - Virginia
7 ND - Denver
8 Syracuse - Cornell

Cornell's road to the final four goes through Syracuse, then the Maryland-Canisius/Robbie Morris winner at Annapolis the following weekend. As seven-seed (if Kessenich seeded the field), Cornell if it won the first game, would have played at Hofstra in the quarterfinals.


After Cornell blew out Yale, before the NCAA announced its magic, this was Quint Kessenich's bracket. He had Cornell as the 7-seed, at home, not the 9-seed, but still playing Syracuse.

My latest mock bracket:

1. MD v Can/Rich
8. Loyola VA

5. Hopkins GT
4. Duke Rut/OSU

3. Yale v UMass
6. ND v Denver

7. Cornell SU
2. Albany Romo

NCAA Tournament Selection Show 9pm ESPNU

— Quint Kessenich (@QKessenich) May 6, 2018

Inside Lacrosse reaction to the seeding. There is much teeth gnashing over how the South got screwed as chronicled in 2018 NCAA Tournament Reaction: Snubs and Surprises

Terrence Foy, Inside Lacrosse
Loyola-Virginia Slated for Hofstra
Quint Kessenich’s last projected bracket was nearly spot on, aside from three differences — ’Nova in over Rutgers/Ohio State, the play-in game participants and the Greyhound-Cavalier [Loyola-Virginia] rematch occurring as a six-seed, as opposed to a No. 8. That’s surprising for this reason: if that matchup had been No. 8, the winner would’ve (presumably) played Maryland at the Navy Quarterfinal, which would’ve likely brought a huge crowd, even bigger than what the Terps are promised when they play the winner of Cornell-Syracuse (at least if you account for how much better that fanbase would’ve drawn at Hofstra, which the NCAA should because they keep the gate at both venues).
—T.F.

... some concern for Cornell playing at Syracuse ...

Dan Aburn, Inside Lacrosse
So Many Questions...
As excited as I am to see so many riveting match-ups, I have some many gripes with the bracket at first glance. Personally, of all the teams in the running for the last team in, Rutgers should have made it in. I know quality losses don't exist unless we label it 'RPI,' but this team beat eight-seed Syracuse, then lost twice to one-seed Maryland (once by a goal) and then lost a one-goal game to five-seed Johns Hopkins. Most times when I watched Rutgers, I saw an exciting team with potential to make a run. That's the definition of a wildcard and a team you want in the postseason. Of course, there are strong cases for Bucknell (great resume) and Ohio State (hot team) as well.

Then how is a 12-4 Ivy League champion Cornell team visiting a 8-6 Syracuse, especially when Cornell beat them by five goals in head-to-head competition?

How is Robert Morris in the play-in game? How is Hopkins the five-seed after winning the most competitive conference in lacrosse?
—DAN ABURN

NCAA lax chair explained to the Baltimore Sun why Cornell got dropped into the 9 seed. [www.baltimoresun.com]

John Hardt
Q: How did Syracuse get the No. 8 seed and a home game in the first round over Cornell, which defeated the Orange, 13-8, on April 10?
A: That is a great question because I think a lot of folks are going to point to Cornell’s head-to-head victory earlier in the season over Syracuse, and I also think that both Syracuse and Cornell had very close RPIs with maybe Cornell being a spot or two ahead of them. But as we drilled down further, Syracuse was 3-1 against common opponents while Cornell was 2-2. Syracuse was undefeated in the [Atlantic Coast Conference] regular season, which made an impact when you look at the quality and that being the No. 1 RPI conference in the country. They had quality wins over Notre Dame, Duke and Virginia. And I also think that because it was so close, we ended up looking at bad losses, and in that regard, Cornell had two losses that were bad losses considered by the committee, and that was Colgate and Princeton whereas Syracuse’s worst loss of the season was to Navy with an RPI of 17. So we took that all into consideration, and we gave the slight edge to Syracuse, and that’s why they were awarded the [No.] 8 seed and are hosting Cornell in the [Carrier] Dome in that first round.

This whole "good wins" and "bad losses" rationale is just nonsense, right? All of that is already built in to the RPI. Why do these random humans think they are smarter at evaluating SOS than a computer system designed to do so?

BearLover
This whole "good wins" and "bad losses" rationale is just nonsense, right? All of that is already built in to the RPI. Why do these random humans think they are smarter at evaluating SOS than a computer system designed to do so?

There is danger when a person considers being chair of the kennel club annual dinner, or NCAA seeding commmittee, to be the highlight of his or her life's work. You saw those people in Lake Placid with the 4-H ribbons reading, ECAC Hockey Tournament Committee / Staff.

Smoke-filled rooms and backfill excuses. Not a big deal though. Cornell has played well in the Dome lately and I don't think the location will matter much.

[www.insidelacrosse.com] Lax media poll has Cornell 7th (+2 positions) and Syracuse, our NCAA tournament host team 11th (+1). Maryland is the new #1, and former #1 Yale is down to 4th. Albany is 2, Duke 3.

The last team in the tournament, Villanova, is seeded 13th and ranked by the 17th. The teams left out are ranked:

13. Rutgers
14. UMass
15. TOSU
16. Bucknell

Five-loss teams to make the tournament and their poll rankings:

 8. Notre Dame 9-5
10. Virginia 12-5
11. Syracuse 8-6 <-- only 6-loss team 
17. Villanova 10-5 

[www.insidelacrosse.com]  USILA poll has Cornell 8, Syracuse 9. Notice the point differential:
 7. Hopkins   318 
 8. Cornell   312  -06 vs 7th
 9. Syracuse  259  -53 vs 8th
10. Rutgers   241  -18 vs 9th 

billhoward
[www.insidelacrosse.com] Lax media poll has Cornell 7th (+2 positions) and Syracuse, our NCAA tournament host team 11th (+1). Maryland is the new #1, and former #1 Yale is down to 4th. Albany is 2, Duke 3.

The last team in the tournament, Villanova, is seeded 13th and ranked by the 17th. The teams left out are ranked:

13. Rutgers
14. UMass
15. TOSU
16. Bucknell

Five-loss teams to make the tournament and their poll rankings:

 8. Notre Dame 9-5
10. Virginia 12-5
11. Syracuse 8-6 <-- only 6-loss team 
17. Villanova 10-5 

[www.insidelacrosse.com]  USILA poll has Cornell 8, Syracuse 9. Notice the point differential:
 7. Hopkins   318 
 8. Cornell   312  -06 vs 7th
 9. Syracuse  259  -53 vs 8th
10. Rutgers   241  -18 vs 9th 

FAKE NEWS!

Can't reach too much into this, but I found the contrast between Syracuse's reaction to the selection show:

When you hear your name called! We're hosting! pic.twitter.com/6i4o2jxoY0

— Syracuse Lacrosse (@CuseMLAX) May 7, 2018

and Cornell's reaction:

.@CornellLacrosse is fired up to have another week together to compete! We will face Syracuse at The Carrier Dome on Sunday at 7:15 p.m. pic.twitter.com/3398wzeQsp

— Cornell Big Red (@CornellSports) May 7, 2018

to be interesting. There are multiple factors, including the fact that Cornell had played a game that day and Syracuse had not. I am sure that both teams know they will have a tough opponent on Sunday.

ugarte
Smoke-filled rooms and backfill excuses. Not a big deal though. Cornell has played well in the Dome lately and I don't think the location will matter much.

It will to our fans. If it didn't rain, I think we could have had a big crowd at home, much less for Sunday PM in Syracuse.

Cornell is offering free bus transportation to students, and $5 tickets.

shocking the school actually stepping up..

upprdeck
shocking the school actually stepping up..

It's on TV. Cornell realizes even the Ivies are judged by student amenities. RIT has a river pool like at the Hawaiian resorts, only indoors. Arizona State has student condos around a party pool; the WSJ quoted a prof saying it's the nicest housing most students will have until their 40s. Marist chartered a plane to the women's first round NCAA basketball game: ~$30 for tickets, T-shirt, and the same-day flight out and back.

Or it's just the decent thing to do. Also, nobody is driving with alcohol in them.

billhoward

upprdeck
shocking the school actually stepping up..

It's on TV. Cornell realizes even the Ivies are judged by student amenities. RIT has a river pool like at the Hawaiian resorts, only indoors. Arizona State has student condos around a party pool; the WSJ quoted a prof saying it's the nicest housing most students will have until their 40s. Marist chartered a plane to the women's first round NCAA basketball game: ~$30 for tickets, T-shirt, and the same-day flight out and back.

Or it's just the decent thing to do. Also, nobody is driving with alcohol in them.

But one way or the other, it's really great the administration is doing this. It's something all alums interested in Cornell sports should get behind. Perhaps we can earmark contributions: e.g., to the McEneaney poetry scholarship fund or the McEneaney-Harkness indoor athletic field.

Were any ELFers at the league tournament games? I read that the final had ~2600 fans. That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York. How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

No way in hell there was 2600 fans in the stands. Huge failure having the ILT in NYC

djk26
Were any ELFers at the league tournament games? I read that the final had ~2600 fans. That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York. How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

I was there.

On Friday night initially I was sitting in the midst of a bunch of Yale supporters. I was quite happy with this, as I thought Yale would be a better Sunday opponent for Cornell's chance to dance. It was quite cordial and spirited. Of course Yale crushed Penn, so one would expect a celebratory mood in the area for most of the game.

Then, most of the Yale supporters left, and the area around me was filled in with Cornell supporters. So I felt quite at home. I was happy to see the Cornell band was there -- the only band I noticed from the four schools. But the acoustics sucked. I couldn't even hear them playing "Davey." (But maybe that's just my aged hearing.) The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Sunday was a different matter. Cornell fans occupied what seemed to be about half the stands on the east side of the stadium (not to capacity), and I assumed Yale fans had similar occupancy at the other end of the field. With Cornell spanking Yale, the atmosphere near me was great. Lots of high-fives, organized cheers, standing ovations, etc. But I didn't see or hear any bands: I don't know if this was a matter of acoustics, with the bands at the other end of the field, or if no bands showed up for the game. There was no standing for the alma mater at halftime, so I assume it was the latter. Curious.

According to Wikipedia, the stadium's capacity is 17,000. But they only allowed seating on one side, which holds 10,500. This side has two distinct characteristics: it has a section having seats with backs and arms, and it is where the officials' table was set up. The stadium staff did not enforce tickets for the fancy seats (at least not on Sunday), so I was very happy I had sprung only for GA but was able to upgrade the seating on Sunday when I showed up with grand kids. (Ivy students got in for free, but the ticketing staff wouldn't take the eleven-year-old's statement that he gets all A's on his report card as proof he goes to Harvard. Damn!) The officials' table was at the midfield stripe and in a canopy tent, which blocked the view of the field from the stands. So most fans sat around the forty-yard lines rather than at midfield.

As for success, I'm not sure what the Ivy League's goals were, so it's hard to say. Because fans left/arrived on Friday night, at any one time there would be fewer people than total attendance. On Sunday there was good Cornell attendance, about double of what I usually see at the away games I attend. (I live too far from Ithaca to go to home games.) But it's hard to assess total attendance from one's seat, and besides I'm not really skilled at making crowd-size estimates.

I watched the championship game on TV, and the announcers made the case that the league should continue the experiment for at least five years. Certainly some bugs can be worked out, and very little marketing was done this time. (How is it the Ivy League can't afford decent marketing?) So there is room for improvement. I was surprised to learn there are several nascent youth lacrosse organizations in the five boroughs, and if the sport keeps on growing this youth contingent should be substantially larger. (I think they also got in free.) Unfortunately, I think geography and within-school popularity of the sport will have a strong impact on future attendance: imagine a Penn-Dartmouth final.

Swampy

djk26
Were any ELFers at the league tournament games? I read that the final had ~2600 fans. That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York. How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

I was there.

On Friday night initially I was sitting in the midst of a bunch of Yale supporters. I was quite happy with this, as I thought Yale would be a better Sunday opponent for Cornell's chance to dance. It was quite cordial and spirited. Of course Yale crushed Penn, so one would expect a celebratory mood in the area for most of the game.

Then, most of the Yale supporters left, and the area around me was filled in with Cornell supporters. So I felt quite at home. I was happy to see the Cornell band was there -- the only band I noticed from the four schools. But the acoustics sucked. I couldn't even hear them playing "Davey." The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Sunday was a different matter. Cornell fans occupied what seemed to be about a quarter of the stadium (not filled to capacity), and I assumed Yale fans had similar occupancy at the other end of the field. With Cornell spanking Yale, the atmosphere near me was great. Lots of high-fives, organized cheers, standing ovations, etc. But I didn't see or hear any bands: I don't know if this was a matter of acoustics, with the bands at the other end of the field, or if no bands showed up for the game. There was no standing for the alma mater at halftime, so I assume it was the latter. Curious.

According to Wikipedia, the stadium's capacity is 17,000. But they only allowed seating on one side, which holds 10,500. This side has two distinct characteristics: it has a section having seats with backs and arms, and it is where the officials' table was set up. The stadium staff did not enforce tickets for the fancy seats (at least not on Sunday), so I was very happy I had sprung only for GA but was able to upgrade the seating on Sunday when I showed up with grand kids. (Ivy students got in for free, but the ticketing staff wouldn't take the eleven-year-old's statement that he gets all A's on his report card as proof he goes to Harvard. Damn!) The officials' table was at the midfield stripe and in a canopy tent, which blocked the view of the field from the stands. So most fans sat around the forty-yard lines rather than at midfield.

As for success, I'm not sure what the Ivy League's goals were, so it's hard to say. I watched the championship game on TV, and the announcers made the case that the league should continue the experiment for at least five years. Certainly some bugs can be worked out, and very little marketing was done. (How is it the Ivy League can't afford decent marketing?) I was surprised to learn there are several nascent youth lacrosse organizations in the five boroughs, and if the sport keeps on growing this youth contingent should be substantially larger. (I think they also got in free.) Unfortunately, I think geography and within-school popularity will have a strong impact on future attendance: imagine a Penn-Dartmouth final.

I just have a hard time understanding why they thought New York City would be a good idea when Columbia has no varsity men's lacrosse team (N.B. - they have a varsity women's team). Geographic center of the league? Maybe. But if there's a bright center to the Ivy League lacrosse community, you're on the planet it's farthest from.

well NYC does have the Ivy lax basis on Wall Street for one thing...

underskill
well NYC does have the Ivy lax basis on Wall Street for one thing...

...of which most members have no intention of being at 218th Street on a Friday night or Sunday afternoon regardless of why, except perhaps Princeton alums (whose team was not represented). I'd bet good money most of the non-Cornell crowd was parents and die-hards.

Beeeej
I just have a hard time understanding why they thought New York City would be a good idea when Columbia has no varsity men's lacrosse team (N.B. - they have a varsity women's team). Geographic center of the league? Maybe. But if there's a bright center to the Ivy League lacrosse community, you're on the planet it's farthest from.

The geographic center of the Ivy League, hilariously and fittingly, is Danbury.

Cop at Lynah
No way in hell there was 2600 fans in the stands. Huge failure having the ILT in NYC

NYC is a great neutral site. If the home team loses the Friday game, ain't gonna be no turnout Sunday. If Wall Streeters are so tough, let them prove it by taking the subway home after the late game.

Remember that the Big Ten (sorry, B1G, which sounds like it's honoring a dead rapper) held it at Michigan and drew 1200. Cripe, more turn out for spring football practice.

Attended both games. Lot of Cornell supporters both days. Great Cornell tailgate Friday nite, w/ribs from Dinosaur BBQ. Hope tourney remains there. Much better than Ivy hoops tourney at the Palestra, where Penn gets unfair advantage.

Taking the reported attendance numbers at face value, it was the best attended ILT ever. There were slightly more than 5000 fans for both games and only the first tournament (in Ithaca and featuring a final between Cornell and Princeton, both in the top 10) cracked four thousand. The pattern -- and the ILT is old enough to say there's a pattern -- is that the home team draws 1500 to 2000 for its games and a neutral field final (i.e. home team loses in the semis) draws about a 1000. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone should have reasonably expected more this year.

CAS, I agree that having the hoops tournament at Penn is an unfair advantage for the Quakers, but it is probably the best option as long as the league insists on holding the men's and women's ILT at the same venue. The Palestra is the best venue in the league and the crowd at any professional arena would be embarrassingly small. Ivy fans, with a few noted exceptions, just don't travel. But that is a conversation for another day and chain.

I wasn't able to make the games, although I was in NYC last weekend for another long-planned event. Selfishly I like the idea of having it at Columbia since I'm just an hour away, and I would certainly plan on being there next year if we're in the ILT (which by all rights we should be given the amount of talent coming back).

Swampy

djk26
Were any ELFers at the league tournament games? I read that the final had ~2600 fans. That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York. How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Haha, I'm not sure these four sentences are entirely consistent.

Thanks for the info on the attendance at the games, everyone. I'm sorry I wasn't able to go, sounds like it was a fun time. As much as I would love to see Cornell play in front of huge crowds (might help with recruiting), it's just a fact that lacrosse isn't really in the popular imagination of Joe Average Fan. Still, I love watching it, and there are many other that do, too.

As mentioned upthread, if the Ivy League does care about growing the sport, absolutely offer free tickets to the youth programs around NYC. Having those kids see Ivy League schools and what that's about--I just think it's good for everyone.

BearLover

Swampy

djk26
Were any ELFers at the league tournament games? I read that the final had ~2600 fans. That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York. How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Haha, I'm not sure these four sentences are entirely consistent.

I think the takeaway is "it was boring because in a low-action game against a low offense opponent the victory never really seemed in doubt but still uncomfortable because the thought of a fluky three goal run ending Cornell's season was lingering the whole time."

Swampy

djk26
Were any ELFers at the league tournament games? I read that the final had ~2600 fans. That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York. How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

I was there.

On Friday night initially I was sitting in the midst of a bunch of Yale supporters. I was quite happy with this, as I thought Yale would be a better Sunday opponent for Cornell's chance to dance. It was quite cordial and spirited. Of course Yale crushed Penn, so one would expect a celebratory mood in the area for most of the game.

Then, most of the Yale supporters left, and the area around me was filled in with Cornell supporters. So I felt quite at home. I was happy to see the Cornell band was there -- the only band I noticed from the four schools. But the acoustics sucked. I couldn't even hear them playing "Davey." (But maybe that's just my aged hearing.) The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Sunday was a different matter. Cornell fans occupied what seemed to be about half the stands on the east side of the stadium (not to capacity), and I assumed Yale fans had similar occupancy at the other end of the field. With Cornell spanking Yale, the atmosphere near me was great. Lots of high-fives, organized cheers, standing ovations, etc. But I didn't see or hear any bands: I don't know if this was a matter of acoustics, with the bands at the other end of the field, or if no bands showed up for the game. There was no standing for the alma mater at halftime, so I assume it was the latter. Curious.

According to Wikipedia, the stadium's capacity is 17,000. But they only allowed seating on one side, which holds 10,500. This side has two distinct characteristics: it has a section having seats with backs and arms, and it is where the officials' table was set up. The stadium staff did not enforce tickets for the fancy seats (at least not on Sunday), so I was very happy I had sprung only for GA but was able to upgrade the seating on Sunday when I showed up with grand kids. (Ivy students got in for free, but the ticketing staff wouldn't take the eleven-year-old's statement that he gets all A's on his report card as proof he goes to Harvard. Damn!) The officials' table was at the midfield stripe and in a canopy tent, which blocked the view of the field from the stands. So most fans sat around the forty-yard lines rather than at midfield.

As for success, I'm not sure what the Ivy League's goals were, so it's hard to say. Because fans left/arrived on Friday night, at any one time there would be fewer people than total attendance. On Sunday there was good Cornell attendance, about double of what I usually see at the away games I attend. (I live too far from Ithaca to go to home games.) But it's hard to assess total attendance from one's seat, and besides I'm not really skilled at making crowd-size estimates.

I watched the championship game on TV, and the announcers made the case that the league should continue the experiment for at least five years. Certainly some bugs can be worked out, and very little marketing was done this time. (How is it the Ivy League can't afford decent marketing?) So there is room for improvement. I was surprised to learn there are several nascent youth lacrosse organizations in the five boroughs, and if the sport keeps on growing this youth contingent should be substantially larger. (I think they also got in free.) Unfortunately, I think geography and within-school popularity of the sport will have a strong impact on future attendance: imagine a Penn-Dartmouth final.

I was there Sunday as well, and agree with Swampy’s writeup. I thought it was a good venue and a fun atmosphere. The band was definitely missed though. Thoughts on why Columbia doesn’t have a team?

jeff '84
I was there Sunday as well, and agree with Swampy’s writeup. I thought it was a good venue and a fun atmosphere. The band was definitely missed though. Thoughts on why Columbia doesn’t have a team?

As much historical accident as anything - but one of the biggest reasons they don't plan to add a team is that it would pretty much kill their Title IX compliance.

I was there with my son on Sunday. The Yale fans sitting near us came across as a bit rude and cocky at first, and peaking once Yale was up by two.

From that point they got progressively more quiet, and were near silent in the second half.

The Pulver long distance goal drained any hope and enthusiasm they had remaining.

Columbia could add a team and adjust the added womens teams to offset it.. considering no scholie money in the ivys and the fact they can bus to almost every Lax game they would want to play it would be a huge increase in money for the Ath dept. budget

upprdeck
Columbia could add a team and adjust the added womens teams to offset it.. considering no scholie money in the ivys and the fact they can bus to almost every Lax game they would want to play it would be a huge increase in money for the Ath dept. budget

First of all, Title IX requires that you either be at gender equity or moving toward it, and Columbia - like most D-I schools - is not at gender equity. So since adding a men's team and a women's team at the same time doesn't move them toward gender equity, it's not really a viable move. (Believe me, I had this conversation with the AD at the time when I worked there.)

Second, it sounds like you're suggesting that adding men's lacrosse plus some other random women's sport to be determined later (if it were a viable move within Title IX constraints) would be a huge revenue boon to Columbia simply because they wouldn't be giving those athletes scholarships. I really hope you were being sarcastic, because if not I'm worried for your sanity.

margolism
I was there with my son on Sunday. The Yale fans sitting near us came across as a bit rude and cocky at first, and peaking once Yale was up by two.

From that point they got progressively more quiet, and were near silent in the second half.

The Pulver long distance goal drained any hope and enthusiasm they had remaining.

Pulver's goal had to be a dagger to their hearts. Yale's keeper was away from the goal because they were trying a very hard ride. Jake apparently practices this shot, and he took advantage of the situation. Fitting that exactly 7 years to the date that doctors took his large intestine out, his first collegiate goal took Yale's heart out.

margolism
I was there with my son on Sunday. The Yale fans sitting near us came across as a bit rude and cocky at first, and peaking once Yale was up by two.

From that point they got progressively more quiet, and were near silent in the second half.

The Pulver long distance goal drained any hope and enthusiasm they had remaining.

In terms of "taking wind out of sails," it reminded me very much of Ohio State's opening goal against us in the NCAA tourney first round in 2008. They handed the ball off to their goalie Stefan Schroder, who started advancing toward midfield - and although everybody expected he must be planning to pass it to a teammate at some point, he simply ran it the length of the field and potted it. They were unseeded playing 8th seed Cornell, but it felt like whatever confidence the Big Red had was gone just like that. We lost 15-7, and it wasn't even really that close.

I think there may be some psychological advantages to playing Cuse at their place instead of ours (in addition to the obvious chip-on-the-shoulder).

First, there is no need to defend "George's house". Second, the team has already beaten Cuse at home; no need to do it again, or to feel like losing would tarnish that earlier achievement. Third, they have a very nice big win over Brown on Senior Day as their final game at Schoellkopf; no need to worry about a loss eclipsing that memory.

This team has already far exceeded any reasonable expectations; they are now playing with house money. They can go into the Dome and play with abandon.

CU77
They can go into the Dome and play with abandon.

I'm just hoping they can play with Jeff Teat.

Beeeej

upprdeck
Columbia could add a team and adjust the added womens teams to offset it.. considering no scholie money in the ivys and the fact they can bus to almost every Lax game they would want to play it would be a huge increase in money for the Ath dept. budget

First of all, Title IX requires that you either be at gender equity or moving toward it, and Columbia - like most D-I schools - is not at gender equity. So since adding a men's team and a women's team at the same time doesn't move them toward gender equity, it's not really a viable move. (Believe me, I had this conversation with the AD at the time when I worked there.)

Second, it sounds like you're suggesting that adding men's lacrosse plus some other random women's sport to be determined later (if it were a viable move within Title IX constraints) would be a huge revenue boon to Columbia simply because they wouldn't be giving those athletes scholarships. I really hope you were being sarcastic, because if not I'm worried for your sanity.

nope just bad typing.. i meant it wouldnt be a huge increase is spending money for the Univ. they could even self fund like several of the cornell teams do.

Al DeFlorio

CU77
They can go into the Dome and play with abandon.

I'm just hoping they can play with Jeff Teat.

You think he's been working on his v cuts?

Note that Syracuse did not see Christian Knight when we played them last. Bullen started since Knight was out due to injury.

This should be a potential advantage for us.

Linked from the Cornell home page at the moment is this story on The Streak

David Harding
Linked from the Cornell home page at the moment is this story on The Streak

Worth reading if just for the photo at the very bottom.

I know that the CU-SU game is on ESPNU and ESPN3 per the game info provided by CU. Can anyone find out if this game will be carried on the new ESPN+ service? I’m currently outside of the US, and the international “ESPN Player” service has a 7-day free college pass trial that will have at least the 1st round games. But I’m also considering jumping on a VPN to see what the ESPN+ service is like, IF this game is carried there. (Or, you know...just using the ESPN3 service I would have access to.)

RichH
I know that the CU-SU game is on ESPNU and ESPN3 per the game info provided by CU. Can anyone find out if this game will be carried on the new ESPN+ service? I’m currently outside of the US, and the international “ESPN Player” service has a 7-day free college pass trial that will have at least the 1st round games. But I’m also considering jumping on a VPN to see what the ESPN+ service is like, IF this game is carried there. (Or, you know...just using the ESPN3 service I would have access to.)

I don't know about ESPN+, but using a VPN was a bit tricky from Scandinavia last summer. Some sites won't allow you to access them through a VPN. Don't ask me how they know you are using one. Nonetheless, the VPN did work most of the time. Since it's good to have a VPN for other reasons, and some offer free trials, I suggest you select one and try it beforehand.

OTOH, I've been meaning to sit down and understand the sports offerings through Kodi. But as of this point I know next to nothing about them. However, this may be your only hope.

Al DeFlorio

David Harding
Linked from the Cornell home page at the moment is this story on The Streak

Worth reading if just for the photo at the very bottom.

That is pretty amazing.



But I thought you old fucks were getting high and screwing every minute of the day back then. Either you were exaggerating or that's quite a stadium event.

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio

David Harding
Linked from the Cornell home page at the moment is this story on The Streak

Worth reading if just for the photo at the very bottom.

That is pretty amazing.

b35e9290-e446-414d-98e9-0aff64e932b6.jpg

But I thought you old fucks were getting high and screwing every minute of the day back then. Either you were exaggerating or that's quite a stadium event.

That was the back cover of the lax media guide for years.

Trotsky
But I thought you old fucks were getting high and screwing every minute of the day back then.

That was TimV.

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
But I thought you old fucks were getting high and screwing every minute of the day back then.

That was TimV.

I think it was Bill Parcells who said defense wins championships but offense gets the girls. But that's about football. Back then, at least, in lacrosse it didn't matter.

Swampy

margolism
I was there with my son on Sunday. The Yale fans sitting near us came across as a bit rude and cocky at first, and peaking once Yale was up by two.

From that point they got progressively more quiet, and were near silent in the second half.

The Pulver long distance goal drained any hope and enthusiasm they had remaining.

Pulver's goal had to be a dagger to their hearts. Yale's keeper was away from the goal because they were trying a very hard ride. Jake apparently practices this shot, and he took advantage of the situation. Fitting that exactly 7 years to the date that doctors took his large intestine out, his first collegiate goal took Yale's heart out.

And you can vote for the goal as the “TRUE Play of the Week”

First, we have Maryland's Bubba Fairman catching a feed on the crease, performing a great handle to avoid a defenders check and finishing with a backhanded shovel shot. Then we have Cornell's Jake Pulver with a long distance pole goal, launching a missile towards an open goal from 65 yards away.

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

EDIT - looks like voting is complete. Pulver wins with 64% of the vote.

jeff '84

Swampy

margolism
I was there with my son on Sunday. The Yale fans sitting near us came across as a bit rude and cocky at first, and peaking once Yale was up by two.

From that point they got progressively more quiet, and were near silent in the second half.

The Pulver long distance goal drained any hope and enthusiasm they had remaining.

Pulver's goal had to be a dagger to their hearts. Yale's keeper was away from the goal because they were trying a very hard ride. Jake apparently practices this shot, and he took advantage of the situation. Fitting that exactly 7 years to the date that doctors took his large intestine out, his first collegiate goal took Yale's heart out.

And you can vote for the goal as the “TRUE Play of the Week”

First, we have Maryland's Bubba Fairman catching a feed on the crease, performing a great handle to avoid a defenders check and finishing with a backhanded shovel shot. Then we have Cornell's Jake Pulver with a long distance pole goal, launching a missile towards an open goal from 65 yards away.

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

No we can't, since the voting's been closed for a while. But Pulver's goal did win, by a nearly 2-to-1 margin.

But you can still vote (daily through May 14) for Jake for the 2018 Senior Class Award:
[www.seniorclassaward.com]

Yale beats UMass 15-13 but not really as close as that. Up 15:10 with a little over 7 minutes left and UMass scored their last goal with 18 seconds left.

Duke and Villanova tied at 4 early in the second period.

Bracket so far:


Duke 17 Villanova 11
Yale 15 Massachusetts 13
Albany 18 Richmond 9
Loyola v Virginia 7:15 pm

Trotsky
Bracket so far:


Duke 17 Villanova 11
Yale 15 Massachusetts 13
Albany 18 Richmond 9
Loyola v Virginia 7:15 pm

Loyola game delayed by lightning.

Al DeFlorio

CU77
They can go into the Dome and play with abandon.

I'm just hoping they can play with Jeff Teat.

<rimshot> +1

That first goal was encouraging. Teat got involved with a pick, and the rotation looked like it had the Syracuse defense confused. Have to hope that by locking off Teat, they show cracks that otherwise might not be there.

Mistake-filled first half yet down by only two. Waiting to see the secret strategy to respond to Teat's being shut off.

I like lacrosse, but I don't understand it. Before Cornell's 7th goal that tied the game, two Cornell players smashed into the Syracuse player (who was by himself and holding the ball.) The ball came out and Cornell picked it up. How is that legal?

Hit wasn't from behind.

Thanks, Al. This shutoff stuff is terrible to watch. Poor Jeff Teat looks so lonely. Thank God for Clarke Peterson. LGR!

djk26
I like lacrosse, but I don't understand it. Before Cornell's 7th goal that tied the game, two Cornell players smashed into the Syracuse player (who was by himself and holding the ball.) The ball came out and Cornell picked it up. How is that legal?

Can you not do that in hockey? Legal hits are legal.

djk26
Thanks, Al. This shutoff stuff is terrible to watch. Poor Jeff Teat looks so lonely. Thank God for Clarke Peterson. LGR!

I'm afraid the next two years will be like this for Teat. Shame.

PPG! 10-9!

I really want Cornell to win, but I am REALLY happy they won't lose to Syracuse 10-9.

Wooo! 10-9 final with a penalty w/ 2 seconds left but nothing happens.

Cornell advances with Jeff Teat shut off (1A). Cornell held on in the last 5 seconds in the way it could have beaten the Orange in 2010: Draw a penalty but until the refs blow the whistle, the clock winds down to zero.

Game in Sunday noon vs. Maryland in Annapolis. Somehow I thought we were the late game. Noon now.Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium holds 34,000, unlike Hofstra that tops out at 12,000. $20 for tickets. See you there.

French Rage
Wooo! 10-9 final with a penalty w/ 2 seconds left but nothing happens.

Should have flattened Nims like that with seconds left in 2009.

Al DeFlorio

French Rage
Wooo! 10-9 final with a penalty w/ 2 seconds left but nothing happens.

Should have flattened Nims like that with seconds left in 2009.

Argh.

On to #1 Maryland.

Ken711
On to #1 Maryland.

Yikes.

Only thing better than a home game is beating Syracuse in the Dome.

What a great defensive second half. So far the "neutralize Teat" strategy is 0 for 2 because the rest of Cornell's offense is still damn good and Christian Knight is amazing. I can definitely see why you'd want to change the game away from needing to score 15 or more given the way Cornell played defense in the second half, and that's what the game is like when Teat is the quarterback.

Peterson's hard stop and spin back for the IIRC 8th goal right before the end of the third was a thing of beauty and you could see his defender knew he'd been owned. The 9th goal was another reverse spin to get himself all alone in the goalie's face, though this time off of a loose ball. And then the Colton Rupp shot for the win on the EMO. Laser beam from the outside.

Literally the only real goof I saw Cornell make in the second half was the 8th Syracuse goal. Looked like a jailbreak even though the defense was set - as if nobody knew what their assignment was for a second.

Great game, great team.

Maryland is a very beatable team.

Al DeFlorio

French Rage
Wooo! 10-9 final with a penalty w/ 2 seconds left but nothing happens.

Should have flattened Nims like that with seconds left in 2009.

NOT NOW, AL! (It never should have been in Nims possession to begin with; the long pole should have launched the ball into the stratosphere instead of trying to run for the clear.)

I saw a good part of the first half and then the final (nail biting) 12 minutes. WOW. great defense in the last 90 seconds or so. I do not understand all the nuances, but yes, getting the guy with the ball down on the ground for the last 4-5 seconds is the way to go. I looked to me like the syracuse player had his arm hooked around the D's pole so that the Cornell D could not get his stick free.

Al DeFlorio

French Rage
Wooo! 10-9 final with a penalty w/ 2 seconds left but nothing happens.

Should have flattened Nims like that with seconds left in 2009.

Can I ask that we just stop mentioning during every single lax game discussion what SHOULD have happened during a 10 second period in 2009? WE. KNOW.

This level of “laces out” obsession has far surpassed “Ross Lemon’s penalty shot on his birthday” on this site.

Last three games the Cornell defense has been lights out in the second half.
- Versus Brown, 3 second half goals allowed
- Versus Yale, 3 second half goals allowed
- Versus Syracuse, 2 second half goals allowed

Whether this is due to comfort or defense adjustments, I don’t know. But I’ll take it.

Tonight's win was even more impressive considering our struggles in the faceoff circle.

Syracuse now 29-4 in playoff games at the Carrier Dome. Coming into tonight’s game, Syracuse has won over 90% of their home playoff games.

Very happy that Cornell won. Tough task next week, good luck to the team.

As long as I have to suffer through watching the shut off, I should understand it better. Did Peterson do so well partially because there were fewer Syracuse players to defend him, since one of them was following Teat wherever he went?

RichH

Al DeFlorio

French Rage
Wooo! 10-9 final with a penalty w/ 2 seconds left but nothing happens.

Should have flattened Nims like that with seconds left in 2009.

Can I ask that we just stop mentioning during every single lax game discussion what SHOULD have happened during a 10 second period in 2009? WE. KNOW.

This level of “laces out” obsession has far surpassed “Ross Lemon’s penalty shot on his birthday” on this site.

+1 (Please.)

Anyone make it to the Dome and can comment on the CU crowd? Did a healthy number of folks take advantage of the school's provided bus?

cornell had a nice chunk behind the bench and then some random ones spread around the other side.. i would say 4-500 or so.

it was a real energy advantage playing in Syracuse, especially during the run that made it 7-4.

CU77
Maryland is a very beatable team.

And we avoid Robert Morris.

At least we're not playing Maryland at Maryland in the QFs.

This article in Inside Lacrosse gives Milliman a lot of credit for the victory. "Cornell advanced to the NCAA Quarterfinals — the first time since 2013 — because it outplayed and outcoached Syracuse at its own game." While the ESPN broadcast crew did an adequate job overall with their in-game analysis, I don't recall hearing them talk much about Milliman's "interim" status, or about the controversy over giving Syracuse a home game and sending Cornell on the road. I'd also like to find out what happened when Milliman pulled Knight for a few minutes in the second quarter. I haven't seen anything about that in any of the post-match coverage.