Cornell lacrosse 2018

When Men’s Lacrosse Announce[d] Class of 2021, the 13 newcomers all sounded like very good players, all contributors, and no one stood out in the release as the next Rob Pannell. Turns out incoming attackman John Piatell, Wrentham, Mass., has the potential to be a standoot at Cornell. Also Matt Licciardi, midfielder. Both were named to the USA Today All-America first team. (Player of the year is Justin Shockey, Landon School (Bethesda, Md.), headed to Navy.)

Interim coach Peter Millman
John [Piatelli] is an excellent feeding attackman with an extremely high lacrosse IQ. We expect him to compete for immedia1te playing time because of his ability to dodge and feed from behind the goal. We think he has the potential to be a special player for us by the time his career is over.

USA Today 2017 HS Lacrosse first team All-Americas
Piatelli emerged as one of the nation’s elite scholastic attackmen this season, helping St. Sebastian’s to a Super 25 appearance and earning Independent School League player of the year honors. He helped the Arrows to an 18-3 record, with only one loss in the ISL.

Matt Licciardi (Cold Spring Harbor), middie, is also first-team USA Today HS AA, also headed to Cornell.

USA Today
Licciardi was a sparkplug for the Seahawks this season as a dynamic midfielder who could win face-offs, initiate offense and create transition by way of smart defense on the backend. He helped fuel Cold Spring Harbor’s third New York State title with 24 goals and a Nassau County-best 65 assists

Christian Knight receives 5th year of eligibility

[cornellsun.com]

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

Nice article about Ben DeLuca. Quotes from Pannell and mentions that "A photo of George Boiardi is a fixture wherever he goes..."

Ben DeLuca has the fire and skill to make it happen at Delaware. Maybe he'll listen to the winds of change. When a school administration says no hazing/no drinking/this is not team-building, they may mean it. Dangerous to call their bluff when the U holds the cards.

For Cornell, maybe there's a second Bill Tierney coming out of Cortland. Maybe there's a Cornellian with enough experience.

billhoward
Ben DeLuca has the fire and skill to make it happen at Delaware. Maybe he'll listen to the winds of change. When a school administration says no hazing/no drinking/this is not team-building, they may mean it. Dangerous to call their bluff when the U holds the cards.

For Cornell, maybe there's a second Bill Tierney coming out of Cortland. Maybe there's a Cornellian with enough experience.

Don't you think we should give Milliman a chance?

Swampy

billhoward
Ben DeLuca has the fire and skill to make it happen at Delaware. Maybe he'll listen to the winds of change. When a school administration says no hazing/no drinking/this is not team-building, they may mean it. Dangerous to call their bluff when the U holds the cards.
For Cornell, maybe there's a second Bill Tierney coming out of Cortland. Maybe there's a Cornellian with enough experience.

Don't you think we should give Milliman a chance?

Absolutely. Milliman has already proved himself a recruiter. Now let's see him coach.

Interesting read

[www.pressconnects.com]

Mitch Belisle '07 retires from NLL. His first person story: [www.insidelacrosse.com]

Chayse Ierlan '22 of Victor NY coming to Cornell fall 2018 as a lacrosse goalie, also a standout in hockey. Already has 3 state titles between the 2 sports heading into senior year. [www.rochesterfirst.com]

'22.

Jesus fuck.

Easy, boy. He's CORNELL '22 - senior at Victor this year. We coulda used his older brother. He's the face-off machine at UAlbany, where we play on March 3rd.

TimV
We coulda used his older brother. He's the face-off machine at UAlbany.

Our new volunteer assistant coach is apparently a face-off stud. I assume these skills can be taught.

billhoward
Chayse Ierlan '22 of Victor NY coming to Cornell fall 2018 as a lacrosse goalie, also a standout in hockey. Already has 3 state titles between the 2 sports heading into senior year. [www.rochesterfirst.com]

Terrifies me to think, if he's good, Cornell PR might start a campaign "Chayse for the (Tewaaraton) Cup." Which is close enough to Trophy if you live in Nascar country.

Laxpower may be folding, and this forum may soon see an influx of Cornell lacrosse fans who had been over there for years. Very devoted, informed group. Just a heads-up.

New to this forum. I just wanted to say Happy New Year and Go Big Red.. Looking forward to an awesome 2018 season.. The boys will make a run..

Welcome to our friends from LaxPower. If that forum does fold we'll have plenty of discussion over here.

And there is a lot of crossover; I have enjoyed both forums [fora?] for years. Although with a very different user name on laxpower.

Were you one of the JHUxxxx? My favorite in joke on that forum.

Nope; sorry

Will there be enough people and conversation threads to warrant a separate lax forum? Who / how would that happen?

KenP
Will there be enough people and conversation threads to warrant a separate lax forum? Who / how would that happen?

The forum over at Laxpower has Cornell lacrosse as only a single topic. But it resets every year: the current Cornell thread is Cornell 2018. The Cornell 2017 topic closed at the end of last season, but you can still read it.

A few schools have 2 topics. JHU, for example, has a Johns Hopkins Recruits topic and a Johns Hopkins 2018 topic. I haven't spent any time with either, but from comments people have made on the Cornell topic, I gather having more topics does not necessarily correlate with having better conversation.

A major loss, should Laxpower end its forums, would be some of the crossover between schools. The Ivy League topic is quite good. And although conversations on each Ivy school's topic is understandably homerish, there's also considerable positive commentary from persons affiliated with other Ivies and with other schools. Some are extremely knowledgeable about the sport; others may have interesting information because of where they live, etc. For example, I'm thinking of one person who, IIRC, played at Dartmouth and whose son plays for Harvard. Others from the Bal'more or Long Island often have good information about recruits, etc.

While sitting here bored at work for a 12 hr shift I'm looking at the schedule and thinking 2018 will be a good year for the Big Red. I really think they can go 12-4 or 11-5. With possibly 3 out of the 4 to 5 losses being close enough to win the games.
Colgate-W
Hobart-W
Albany- L. #40 will have to make 30 saves and we will have to go at least 50% at the x and shoot very well to have a chance at this one.
Binghamton-W
Penn State-L but this is one I think we have a good chance.
Yale- L another one I think we have a good chance .
U Penn-W
AFA-W
Dartmouth-W
Harvard-W
Cuse-L another one we have a chance .
Lehigh-W
Brown-W
Princeton-W/L

I'm not as optimistic as you are. Think Penn should be a toss-up like you have Princeton. Why do we have a better chance vs Yale than Syracuse? Weakness in net for Yale?

To Me Yale and Cuse are both toss ups. I can see us winning both of those games if we play well as I can see us losing if we don’t shoot well. Both teams will have new starters in the goal.

I'm with lakerlaxfan. Anyone who was not the biggest fan of Kerwick is probably very bullish on this team, particularly with Teat leading the offense. Wouldn't be shocked with an NCAA appearance

[www.insidelacrosse.com]

I think we are much better than this. But of course it is IL. Also I think we have a few players that will be recognized once the games begin. Can’t wait until the Feb 10th scrimmage to get here.

coaches poll has penn at 18 and brown at 20 and yale at 5.. pretty far off this poll that has penn at 6th in the league.. we would probably be around 30-40 if the USILA poll went that far

We're Wayyyy underestimated.

Good.

TimV
We're Wayyyy underestimated.
Good.

Happened to men's hockey this year, too.

Yes, I'm very much hoping the lax team can replicate the unexpected success of the hockey team this year ...

For those of you in western NY --

Cornell Men's Lacrosse Coach Pete Milliman announces two scrimmages, one against RIT at 1:30 pm and a second against LeMoyne College at 2:45 pm. Both teams are ranked in the top 5 nationally in their respective divisions (2 and 3).

These scrimmages are free and open to the public. They will take place at Pinnacle Athletic Campus, 7600 Pinnacle Road, Victor, NY, an indoor facility.

George64
For those of you in western NY --

Cornell Men's Lacrosse Coach Pete Milliman announces two scrimmages, one against RIT at 1:30 pm and a second against LeMoyne College at 2:45 pm. Both teams are ranked in the top 5 nationally in their respective divisions (2 and 3).

These scrimmages are free and open to the public. They will take place at Pinnacle Athletic Campus, 7600 Pinnacle Road, Victor, NY, an indoor facility.

Is the date today?

Swampy
Is the date today?

Oops - this Saturday.

George64
For those of you in western NY --

Cornell Men's Lacrosse Coach Pete Milliman announces two scrimmages, one against RIT at 1:30 pm and a second against LeMoyne College at 2:45 pm. Both teams are ranked in the top 5 nationally in their respective divisions (2 and 3).

These scrimmages are free and open to the public. They will take place at Pinnacle Athletic Campus, 7600 Pinnacle Road, Victor, NY, an indoor facility.

I think 3 & 2

Did anyone make it out to watch the scrimmages??

Anyone going to Drexel for Saturday's scrimmage?

SU up 13-2 at the half over Bingo.

Posted on laxpower: unofficial score in today's lacrosse scrimmage at Drexel was 20-9 Cornell.

There are a couple of longer discussions about the scrimmage now posted to laxpower; they are worthy of reading. My favorite comment: "I haven't seen a CU team combine speed of play and an almost complete absence of unforced turnovers at this stage of the season in at least a decade." Very encouraging.

mountainred
There are a couple of longer discussions about the scrimmage now posted to laxpower; they are worthy of reading. My favorite comment: "I haven't seen a CU team combine speed of play and an almost complete absence of unforced turnovers at this stage of the season in at least a decade." Very encouraging.

... for the fifth best team in the Ivies. Yale must be awesome.

Colgate game tomorrow is on the Patriot League Network, and can be watched using the Stadium app on Roku.

Al DeFlorio
Colgate game tomorrow is on the Patriot League Network, and can be watched using the Stadium app on Roku.

Stadium kinda sorta shows up on my Fios, too.

Al DeFlorio
Colgate game tomorrow is on the Patriot League Network, and can be watched using the Stadium app on Roku.

Thanks!

10-10 after 3. We’ve trailed most of the game but have led 9-8 and 10-9

Lost most of the faceoffs early but have started doing better. However, too many unforced errors.

Yes, now down by 3.

dag14
Lost most of the faceoffs early but have started doing better. However, too many unforced errors.

Can't hold on to ground balls after picking them up.

14-11 final, as we have a terrible 4th quarter being outscored 4-1. I think Colgate is better than most observers thought, but we have a lot to work on. As Al said, we couldn’t pick up ground balls, which is most disappointing. Need a big rebound next week against Hobart.

we lost 22 of 29 faceoffs and everyone after we led 10-9.. cant win games losing 75% of the faceoffs.

Plus 5 failed clears compared to 1 for 'gate. This defense can't survive losing the possession battle that badly. Now to retreat to the cold comfort of "it was our first game."

Our D could not compensate for the FO disparity as we did not cause too many turnovers. I really thought the FO unit would be more competitive. We didn’t lose many cleanly, which puts the onus on the wing guys, and we were just outworked and outhustled.

scoop85
Our D could not compensate for the FO disparity as we did not cause too many turnovers. I really thought the FO unit would be more competitive. We didn’t lose many cleanly, which puts the onus on the wing guys, and we were just outworked and outhustled.

My take, also. Too many infractions on faceoffs, too

I think the fact colgate was game 3 and we were game 1 played a bit.. even if was just 2-3 more possessions

Meanwhile Albany (who we play in 2 weeks) blew out Cuse in the Dome, 15-3.

It was the Danes' first game too.

Cornell needs to recruit a face-off specialist.

We got one of the best HS guys coming in, I believe for next year

quite the first half.. hobart scores 5 to go up 5-1 and cornell runs off 7 in a row to lead 8-5.. teat with a 6 pt half..

this team just needs to find a way to play half a game with the ball. the changed up the faceoff mid first quarter and that seemed to make bigd difference so far.

that might have been the quietest 10 pt day i have ever seen. teat seldom had the ball and scored so many pts.

from 1-5 down to 15-8 up. quite the turnaround.

SU in trouble again vs army today.

SU might have saved the season with a big come back from 7-2 down to will 11-10 in triple OT. They will be beatable.. They also struggle at the x

Penn knocked off #1 Duke 10-9.

how far has lax fallen that a win gets no discussion at all?

upprdeck
how far has lax fallen that a win gets no discussion at all?

i tuned in after most of the fireworks (just as the 3d was winding down) so mostly i saw Knight playing well, the X issues everyone talks about and the offense coasting to the finish. the last goal was a sweet set play for an empty net.

There is a lot of a young talent on this team. Donville, Licciardi, Bardwell, Doria, Piatelli, and Tria are a great group of freshman. If there is a keeper below Knight, the lax team is building for a nice run in a year or two.

mountainred
There is a lot of a young talent on this team. Donville, Licciardi, Bardwell, Doria, Piatelli, and Tria are a great group of freshman. If there is a keeper below Knight, the lax team is building for a nice run in a year or two.

Agreed, terrific Freshman class shaping up, and of course Teat is just a sophomore. The goalies presently on the roster who may be next in line are Parker Henderer and Caelan Buhlen. But the next guy up may well be recruit Chase Ierlan, who’s a terrific goalie at powerhouse Victor HS, and is the brother of Albany face off stud T.D. Ierlan who we’ll need to contend with next Saturday.

scoop85

mountainred
There is a lot of a young talent on this team. Donville, Licciardi, Bardwell, Doria, Piatelli, and Tria are a great group of freshman. If there is a keeper below Knight, the lax team is building for a nice run in a year or two.

Agreed, terrific Freshman class shaping up, and of course Teat is just a sophomore. The goalies presently on the roster who may be next in line are Parker Henderer and Caelan Buhlen. But the next guy up may well be recruit Chase Ierlan, who’s a terrific goalie at powerhouse Victor HS, and is the brother of Albany face off stud T.D. Ierlan who we’ll need to contend with next Saturday.

Interesting first name for Ierlen, who spells it Chayse, not Chase.

Ken711

scoop85

mountainred
There is a lot of a young talent on this team. Donville, Licciardi, Bardwell, Doria, Piatelli, and Tria are a great group of freshman. If there is a keeper below Knight, the lax team is building for a nice run in a year or two.

Agreed, terrific Freshman class shaping up, and of course Teat is just a sophomore. The goalies presently on the roster who may be next in line are Parker Henderer and Caelan Buhlen. But the next guy up may well be recruit Chase Ierlan, who’s a terrific goalie at powerhouse Victor HS, and is the brother of Albany face off stud T.D. Ierlan who we’ll need to contend with next Saturday.

Interesting first name for Ierlen, who spells it Chayse, not Chase.

Yes, I’d forgotten that unique spelling.

The game here in Albany has been pushed back to Sunday at 1 PM because of today's snowstorm in the region.

Iceberg
The game here in Albany has been pushed back to Sunday at 1 PM because of today's snowstorm in the region.

I figured that was a possibility

Iceberg
The game here in Albany has been pushed back to Sunday at 1 PM because of today's snowstorm in the region.

And what better pen name to report this. Thank you.

6 - 4 Cornell at the half; faceoffs 11 - 1 Albany.

6-6 midway through the third. That's a moral victory. But we need a regular victory.

Actually 7-6 Albany. Cornell let a long-stick defender saunter in on goal.

Insane behind the back pass to Dowiak on the goal mouth to tie the game. Ah, pass by Teat of course.

Cornell is making a lot of correctable errors. When Albany went up 7-6, Albany won the FO, Cornell got a save, defense legged it upfield but couldn't get it in the box in time. turnover.

Cornell goes up 9-7. Cornell can't win a faceoff. Albany scores the next 4.

So this a quality loss. We needed a quality win.

billhoward
6-6 midway through the third. That's a moral victory. But we need a regular victory.

Actually 7-6 Albany. Cornell let a long-stick defender saunter in on goal.

7 allafter 3

I'm by no means a lacrosse expert, but from my spot in the windy stands this looked like a very winnable game.

With the score 9-7, a Cornell middie took a low-odds shot from a bad angle to the goalie's left with no one backing up. It all went downhill from there.

that bad shot really hurt. but still even being in the game winning 1 faceoff is almost impossible.

really had they just an bad X guy instead of a non existent one they would be 3-0..

they played physical, but got called for it way more than albany did.. Why was teat barely in the game plan?

Lax needs to fix the faceoff rules.. its great wen you are the team winning them all, sucks for the team that struggles. imagine if bball went back to the jump ball rules

Lots of folks around me were complaining about officiating, and not necessarily Cornell fans either.

Iceberg
Lots of folks around me were complaining about officiating, and not necessarily Cornell fans either.

Cornell played a very tight, tough defense. If Albany's attack had its way with the previous defenses, Albany fans Sunday had to choose whether the Danes finally ran into a really good defense or if they were getting shafted by the refs.

Cornell was faceguarding Nanticoke [who had something like 10 pts against Syracuse] and Albany was shadowing Teat. With a defenseman glued to you during the entire game, it is hard to be part of the offense. I think Cornell adjusted to this better than Albany and that is one reason their offense looked so bad until the 4th quarter. Credit to our defense and especially Knight for slowing down a very potent offense.

dag14
Cornell was faceguarding Nanticoke [who had something like 10 pts against Syracuse] and Albany was shadowing Teat. With a defenseman glued to you during the entire game, it is hard to be part of the offense. I think Cornell adjusted to this better than Albany and that is one reason their offense looked so bad until the 4th quarter. Credit to our defense and especially Knight for slowing down a very potent offense.

Interesting that when Harvard would shut off Pannell, he would stand in a corner near the end line with his defender to allow open five-on-five play in the goal area. Teat seemed to stand with his defender in front of the crease. To screen? To try to force his defender to slide to a dodger? Could Teat (or Pannell back in the day) have taken the ball on restarts at the end line in order to get it in his stick?

Al DeFlorio

dag14
Cornell was faceguarding Nanticoke [who had something like 10 pts against Syracuse] and Albany was shadowing Teat. With a defenseman glued to you during the entire game, it is hard to be part of the offense. I think Cornell adjusted to this better than Albany and that is one reason their offense looked so bad until the 4th quarter. Credit to our defense and especially Knight for slowing down a very potent offense.

Interesting that when Harvard would shut off Pannell, he would stand in a corner near the end line with his defender to allow open five-on-five play in the goal area. Teat seemed to stand with his defender in front of the crease. To screen? To try to force his defender to slide to a dodger? Could Teat (or Pannell back in the day) have taken the ball on restarts at the end line in order to get it in his stick?

Not living close to Cornell, and with either the team not playing near me or me being unable to attend games near me, I haven't seen Teat play except on the tube. So take this for what it's worth.

From reading about Teat, he seems to be a very different player from Pannell. Pannell was very strong and could beat his man 1:1 almost at will. Teat, from what I understand, is a magician with his stick and can pass the ball through the eye of a needle.

If this assessment is right, maybe right now giving the ball to Teat on restarts might not be that effective. If he can beat an entire defense from GLE, the way Max S. did against Syracuse, then I'm wrong.

Swampy

Al DeFlorio

dag14
Cornell was faceguarding Nanticoke [who had something like 10 pts against Syracuse] and Albany was shadowing Teat. With a defenseman glued to you during the entire game, it is hard to be part of the offense. I think Cornell adjusted to this better than Albany and that is one reason their offense looked so bad until the 4th quarter. Credit to our defense and especially Knight for slowing down a very potent offense.

Interesting that when Harvard would shut off Pannell, he would stand in a corner near the end line with his defender to allow open five-on-five play in the goal area. Teat seemed to stand with his defender in front of the crease. To screen? To try to force his defender to slide to a dodger? Could Teat (or Pannell back in the day) have taken the ball on restarts at the end line in order to get it in his stick?

Not living close to Cornell, and with either the team not playing near me or me being unable to attend games near me, I haven't seen Teat play except on the tube. So take this for what it's worth.

From reading about Teat, he seems to be a very different player from Pannell. Pannell was very strong and could beat his man 1:1 almost at will. Teat, from what I understand, is a magician with his stick and can pass the ball through the eye of a needle.

If this assessment is right, maybe right now giving the ball to Teat on restarts might not be that effective. If he can beat an entire defense from GLE, the way Max S. did against Syracuse, then I'm wrong.

Teat doesn't have to beat the entire defense once the ball's in his stick. He has to pass the ball through the eye of a needle to someone in a position to score. He can't do that if the ball is never in his stick.

i get the way Albany played D on him.. I didnt get the never moving around enough to make it hard to guard him

2 things I would like rules makers to tweak:.

1. The faceoff-Would like to see it more of a scramble. As others have suggested setting the faceoff guys farther apart. Too much of possession rests on one player.

2. The timeout-In no other sport are timeouts used like they are in lacrosse. That sideline scramble where Albany called timeout-I did not see clear possession. Let the players play.

Received one or more votes in this week's Media poll.

hope that Colgate game doesnt come back to haunt them down the road.

rss77
2 things I would like rules makers to tweak:.

1. The faceoff-Would like to see it more of a scramble. As others have suggested setting the faceoff guys farther apart. Too much of possession rests on one player.

2. The timeout-In no other sport are timeouts used like they are in lacrosse. That sideline scramble where Albany called timeout-I did not see clear possession. Let the players play.

As with lots of stuff that's led to what, IMHO, is over-specialization in lacrosse, I'd like to see steps taken to get away from the overly specialized FOGO position. For example, except in the case of injury, whoever faces off cannot be substituted until 1-2 minutes have passed. This still would allow specialists in facing off, but at least they'd have to be able to play on the field too. Ideally, they'd be 2-way midfielders. But I'm sure some coaches would count on their specialist to win the ball and then park them on the defensive side until the time limit is up.

Still, I think the game has lost lots of its character, with platoon substitutions while others on the field wait around for the switch to finish. I'd much rather see 3-4 lines of well-rounded midfielders who play both ways than 1-2 lines of offensive or defensive specialists.

gonna be a cold one tonight.

up 16-1 entering the 4th.. can we have the colgate game back.. Hobart just beat them.. just win 3-4 faceoffs and we probably are undefeated right now. find a way to get to 40% somehow.. 50/50 today and dominated.

I like lacrosse, I just don't understand it. How does Cornell go from losing all 24 faceoffs (or winning only 1...sources differ) in one game to winning 12/24 in the next game? I know that Albany is a lot better than Binghamton, but that's just so dramatic. And how does Cornell stay competitive in a game where they lose every faceoff?

the albany kid is a beast.. it hurts more how we did almost the same vs colgate.

djk26
I like lacrosse, I just don't understand it. How does Cornell go from losing all 24 faceoffs (or winning only 1...sources differ) in one game to winning 12/24 in the next game? I know that Albany is a lot better than Binghamton, but that's just so dramatic. And how does Cornell stay competitive in a game where they lose every faceoff?

Yea, I wouldn't look at winning 50% as a good harbinger. Binghamton was playing it's 6th game and came into the game 40% on the year. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic in saying that fixing the face-off problem for this team might mean the difference between not making the Ivy League Tournament or potentially making a run in the NCAAs. Every other unit on this team seems ready to go, and if face-off performance keeps holding them back, it's going to start to show in the morale of the other units.

djk26
I like lacrosse, I just don't understand it. How does Cornell go from losing all 24 faceoffs (or winning only 1...sources differ) in one game to winning 12/24 in the next game? I know that Albany is a lot better than Binghamton, but that's just so dramatic. And how does Cornell stay competitive in a game where they lose every faceoff?

Short answer: They don't.

Long answer:

Lacrosse has changed over the years. Back in the 1970s, it was common to play a goal keeper, 3 defense men, 3 attack men, and 3 midfielders. Since only midfielders commonly ran the full length of the field, it was also common to run 2-4 lines of "middies,' the same way as teams change lines in hockey (lacrosse didn't change midfielders as frequently, but change them it did). Teams would also substitute defenders and attack men, but not entire lines; instead, they'd rotate maybe 1-2 players into the defense or attack, usually just to give the starters a break. Because midfielders played at both ends of the field, they'd have to be able to play offense and defense, just like in basketball. Very rarely a defender would cross over midfield, typically carrying the ball, and because the rules always require a team to have at least 3 players (not counting goalie) on both sides of the midfield line, somebody would have to stay back -- typically a midfielder, or extremely rarely, an attack man -- so the defender could cross over without the team being offsides. But getting back to face-offs, because teams ran several midfields and midfielders played both ways, there would typically be one player on each midfield line who regularly took face-offs, or perhaps there would be 2-4 players who did and, depending on the situation, any one of them might rotate in to do so. But even if that player regularly played on a different midfield line, he would stay in and play with the other midfielders on the field during the face-off, and might substitute out only after several minutes.

Today the game is completely different. It has become completely specialized; overly specialized, IMHO. In addition to attack and defense men, teams have midfielders who specialize in offense or defense. They even have defensive midfielders who specialize in using shorter or longer sticks.

And they have players who specialize in nothing but facing off and getting off the field. Hence the term, FOGO. This has become a very specialized position, almost as important as the goal keeper position. Because each team can have only three players in the middle portion of the field during a face-off, the two wings for each team are also important and also often specialize. Because midfielders specialize in defense and offense now, the face-off units specialize too, and you may see the wings on face-offs doing only that. Suppose a team used its offensive middies for a face-off and lost the ball to the other team. Then the team would have to substitute defensive midfielders for the face-off unit. The same is true vice-versa if the team used defensive middies and won the ball: it would have to substitute offensive middies. So since substitution is likely either way, teams just count on substituting for their face-off units, which allows even greater specialization.

Think of the current situation in lacrosse as somewhat similar to basketball back in the day when jump balls were common (e.g., before possession arrows). A team with a 7 foot center, like Wilt Chamberlain, had a tremendous advantage. But basketball scores are typically 50-100 points, and teams could win the ball back by rebounding or causing turnovers. So the advantage didn't necessarily mean a team with a tall center would win the game. In lacrosse, scores are typically <=20, so having a dominant FOGO is a bigger advantage. Of course, not everyone wins the genetic lottery (as Bill Walton calls it), so 7-foot centers are very rare. But theoretically, anyone can learn to win face-offs, so on the surface the shift to specialized FOGO's does not seem to confer such extreme advantage. But FOGOs on the very top teams are usually in a class by themselves compared to the average, run-of-the-mill FOGO. If a team doesn't have an elite FOGO, good coaching can make up for part of the deficit. But it's still a big disadvantage.

That's a great write up, thank you.

Is there a movement in lax to have possession arrows?

Trotsky
That's a great write up, thank you.

Is there a movement in lax to have possession arrows?

It was tried, and abandoned, to work it like basketball where the scored-upon team would be given the ball after a goal. Maybe TimV (or anyone else) can tell us why that approach failed.

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
That's a great write up, thank you.

Is there a movement in lax to have possession arrows?

It was tried, and abandoned, to work it like basketball where the scored-upon team would be given the ball after a goal. Maybe TimV (or anyone else) can tell us why that approach failed.

The biggest issue is that if you are going to eliminate the face off, you have to have an always on shot clock IMO. When they eliminated face offs in 1979, it failed because there was no shot clock less talented teams could do the old Dean Smith style four corners and just play keep away.

scoop85

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
That's a great write up, thank you.

Is there a movement in lax to have possession arrows?

It was tried, and abandoned, to work it like basketball where the scored-upon team would be given the ball after a goal. Maybe TimV (or anyone else) can tell us why that approach failed.

The biggest issue is that if you are going to eliminate the face off, you have to have an always on shot clock IMO. When they eliminated face offs in 1979, it failed because there was no shot clock less talented teams could do the old Dean Smith style four corners and just play keep away.

Agree. And the current shot clock, which goes on at the referee's discretion, isn't working that well, IMHO.

Edit: BTW, I should have included this in my earlier post: Lacrosse used to be called "the fastest game on two feet." It's very hard to claim this today, since you frequently see people standing around while this or that specialist units substitutes in and out. And even after the substitutions, for some reason I don't quite understand, you see teams passively passing the ball around the periphery without much noticeable effort to break down the other team's defense. To see what I'm talking about, watch movement away from the ball.

There have, however, been two notable exceptions recently: Brown 2015, 2016 and Albany the past 3 years. I may be wrong, but I believe I'm correct in saying both teams used 2-way midfields.

just change the rule to no subs until possession change or ball goes out of bounds.. they should implement a shot clock period.. 1-2min from gaining possession regardless of shots taken. shoot and keep is still fine but only until that 1-2 min is up..

scoop85

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
That's a great write up, thank you.

Is there a movement in lax to have possession arrows?

It was tried, and abandoned, to work it like basketball where the scored-upon team would be given the ball after a goal. Maybe TimV (or anyone else) can tell us why that approach failed.

The biggest issue is that if you are going to eliminate the face off, you have to have an always on shot clock IMO. When they eliminated face offs in 1979, it failed because there was no shot clock less talented teams could do the old Dean Smith style four corners and just play keep away.

Right Scoop. But a problem with the approach at that time was that after a score, the scored-upon team got the ball at the midfield. If it was done like basketball- get the ball behind your own goal - it would force a clear. Using todays clearing rules would prevent teams using up too much time, and reward a hard riding opponent. There have been other suggestions with minor tweaks like putting more space between the crosse of the FO guys.

I'd like to see a variant derived from the old XFL. Instead of an opening kickoff they had one player from each side run to get posession of a ball placed at the midfield line. So, after a goal, restart with EVERYONE behind the restraining lines and the ball at the midfield dot. Blow the whistle and let 'em go get it.

upprdeck
just change the rule to no subs until possession change or ball goes out of bounds.. they should implement a shot clock period.. 1-2min from gaining possession regardless of shots taken. shoot and keep is still fine but only until that 1-2 min is up..

+1

TimV

I'd like to see a variant derived from the old XFL. Instead of an opening kickoff they had one player from each side run to get posession of a ball placed at the midfield line. So, after a goal, restart with EVERYONE behind the restraining lines and the ball at the midfield dot. Blow the whistle and let 'em go get it.

Like a ground ball drill. Cool.

Maybe have them start at the wing lines. You want to see them battling for the ball, not see who can gain a step or two sprinting from GLE.