2013-2014 Basketball

phillysportsfan
[www.cbssports.com]

Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year

So his contract expires right when Courtney's does?

Just sayin'.

Trotsky

phillysportsfan
[www.cbssports.com]
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year

So his contract expires right when Courtney's does? Just sayin'.

Gives Donahue, who'd love to be in Philadelphia, another year while Penn takes another year to make up its mind about coach Jerome Allen (a Penn legend as a player). Allen wins since taking over midway into 2009-2010 season:
6 (partial season)
13
20
9
8
56-85 overall in 5 seasons. The trajectory was up for 2 years, now down for 2.

Maybe Donahue steps back in a year to being an assistant. Al Skinner, previous coach at BC, was out of coaching for 2 or 3 years, now an asst at Bryant. Skinner is also 61 or 62, a decade older than Donahue. Maybe Donahue pulls out the magic rabbit next year.

If he does get fired I don't see him going to Penn, it isn't the job it was when Dunphy left. There is a lot of rebuilding to do and the alumni have unrealistic expectations, Harvard isn't going anywhere

He would be better of becoming an assistant at a major or becoming a coach at another mid major again. I hope he can put it together nex t year, has to make the tournament

phillysportsfan
[www.cbssports.com]

Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year

Nothing against Steve, but that is very surprising.

yes it doest make sense, BC has a new AD, if you are the AD I don't know how you don't fire him. He recruited too many Ivy level players and should have hired more assistants with ACC experience instead of bringing his whole staff along

mountainred

phillysportsfan
[www.cbssports.com]

Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year

Nothing against Steve, but that is very surprising.

Donahue was fired today.

[www.cbssports.com]

Ken711

mountainred

phillysportsfan
[www.cbssports.com]

Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year

Nothing against Steve, but that is very surprising.

Donahue was fired today.

[www.cbssports.com]

So much for the earlier source.

Boston Globe
Who will replace Donahue? According to multiple sources, Harvard’s Tommy Amaker is the leading candidate for the position. “In the next 24 hours, we are going to begin a needs assessment for our program,” [AD Brad] Bates said. “We need to identify a profile of the specific coaches that can lead us at this point.” Amaker is a likely choice because of his ACC pedigree, having played and served as an assistant at Duke under coach Mike Krzyzewski. Amaker also had head coaching stints in the Big East at Seton Hall and in the Big Ten at Michigan, recruiting blue-chip prospects at both schools.

Typical media, always trying to put the story out there first

I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league

Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes

If you've got good contacts into New England college hoops, you hear Amaker is being considered, you know part of what you hear is a trial balloon ... and you don't write it? Please.

phillysportsfan
Typical media, always trying to put the story out there first

I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league

Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes

Penn would be my guess.

phillysportsfan
Typical media, always trying to put the story out there first

I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league

Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes

I could easily see Amaker going to BC. Maybe he likes living in Boston. Maybe his wife has cemented her career. Does he have kids? Maybe they are in high school and the family doesn't want to leave. Maybe BC could make him a financial offer too good to pass up. We lost a lacrosse coach because of family reasons, if "reports are to be believed".

Jim Hyla

phillysportsfan
Typical media, always trying to put the story out there first

I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league

Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes

I could easily see Amaker going to BC. Maybe he likes living in Boston. Maybe his wife has cemented her career. Does he have kids? Maybe they are in high school and the family doesn't want to leave. Maybe BC could make him a financial offer too good to pass up. We lost a lacrosse coach because of family reasons, if "reports are to be believed".

Amaker has a nice $2,000,000 second home on Cape Cod.

Al DeFlorio

Jim Hyla

phillysportsfan
Typical media, always trying to put the story out there first

I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league

Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes

I could easily see Amaker going to BC. Maybe he likes living in Boston. Maybe his wife has cemented her career. Does he have kids? Maybe they are in high school and the family doesn't want to leave. Maybe BC could make him a financial offer too good to pass up. We lost a lacrosse coach because of family reasons, if "reports are to be believed".

Amaker has a nice $2,000,000 second home on Cape Cod.

I doubt Amaker ever leaves Harvard unless Duke comes calling. BC does have the advantage of not uprooting his family; from a quick internet search, it appears his wife has an impressive career going with Harvard's med school. His record at Seton Hall and Michigan was okay, but nothing too sterling, and I think he is smart enough to realize his Harvard success is largely a function of Harvard's willingness to bend the AI to establish a good basketball team. If he goes anywhere else, he goes back to a level playing field and likely reverts to an average basketball coach.

Cressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted

semsox
Cressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted

Agreed, I wouldnt be surprised if Miller leaves next, then we are really screwed. Andy needs to call Donahue now!

Cressler averaged 17 points a game for a team that scored only 64/game, and was only a sophomore. When you thought it couldn't get any worse...

And Harvard limps into another NCAA tournament win, ugly game

semsox
Cressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted

Link or is this deep background?

phillysportsfan
And Harvard limps into another NCAA tournament win, ugly game

there goes my 1 billion dollar bracket .

phillysportsfan
And Harvard limps into another NCAA tournament win, ugly game

So it's only hockey where they can't win NCAA games.

ugarte

semsox
Cressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted

Link or is this deep background?

First reported by this guy:

Cornell has granted release of sophomore guard & Plum grad Nolan Cressler @NacFlow_3. He will indeed transfer.

— Bill Beckner (@BillBeckner) March 20, 2014

, [twitter.com] lists others who reported it

Awful news, if true, about Nolan.

mountainred
Awful news, if true, about Nolan.

The only plus side is if this forces Andy to have to fire Courtney now

phillysportsfan

mountainred
Awful news, if true, about Nolan.

The only plus side is if this forces Andy to have to fire Courtney now

Cancer, Harmon (who was a highly-regarded recruit even though he never played) and now Cressler. You have to hope that gets Andy's attention once he gets back from OKC. Of course, the school record for losses wasn't enough, so who knows?

mountainred

phillysportsfan

mountainred
Awful news, if true, about Nolan.

The only plus side is if this forces Andy to have to fire Courtney now

Cancer, Harmon (who was a highly-regarded recruit even though he never played) and now Cressler. You have to hope that gets Andy's attention once he gets back from OKC. Of course, the school record for losses wasn't enough, so who knows?

Well if they were going to fire him from the beginning they would probably wait till next week anyway when wrestling is over

[triblive.com]

“It all depends on the fit,” said Cressler, who turned heads at last summer's Pittsburgh Basketball Club Pro-Am, scoring 38 in one game. “I feel I can play at a higher level. If it can work out on the basketball court, and I can continue the high level of education, than that's where I'll be.”

Look like its a done deal that he is gone, article has direct quotes from Cressler

phillysportsfan
[triblive.com]

“It all depends on the fit,” said Cressler, who turned heads at last summer's Pittsburgh Basketball Club Pro-Am, scoring 38 in one game. “I feel I can play at a higher level. If it can work out on the basketball court, and I can continue the high level of education, than that's where I'll be.”

Look like its a done deal that he is gone, article has direct quotes from Cressler

I wonder if a place like Northwestern might be a good fit for him. Up-and-coming young coach and top-flight academics, and he can fill a real need for a team that can have trouble scoring.

Yes Northwestern is on his list but it appears he wants to go to Pitt where he is from,

Some of the schools on Cressler's early list; Pitt, Vanderbilt, California, Stanford, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, and Northwestern.

— Matthew Steinbrink (@MattSteinbrink) March 20, 2014

If he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*

Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.

ugarte
If he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*

Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.

I don't think Courtney ever coached at American. Perhaps your thinking of George Mason?

scoop85

ugarte
If he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*

Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.

I don't think Courtney ever coached at American. Perhaps your thinking of George Mason?

He did coach at American, but it was his first job, not his last job. I don't know why that stuck in my head instead of his (more impressive) association with Larranaga at BGSU/GMU.

ugarte

scoop85

ugarte
If he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*

Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.

I don't think Courtney ever coached at American. Perhaps your thinking of George Mason?

He did coach at American, but it was his first job, not his last job. I don't know why that stuck in my head instead of his (more impressive) association with Larranaga at BGSU/GMU.

ok -- I didn't recall that he had been at American.

Andy, please stop the insanity.

Is there any accountability for performance?

CAS
Is there any accountability for performance?

From what I see and hear it's likely a matter that Cornell doesn't have it in the athletic department budget to fire coaches without cause (and being a horrible coach is not cause, as much as we might like it to be). Barring some miraculous turnaround next year, I assume Courtney will just be a lame duck -- which is certainly not beneficial to the program.

scoop85

CAS
Is there any accountability for performance?

From what I see and hear it's likely a matter that Cornell doesn't have it in the athletic department budget to fire coaches without cause (and being a horrible coach is not cause, as much as we might like it to be). Barring some miraculous turnaround next year, I assume Courtney will just be a lame duck -- which is certainly not beneficial to the program.

I think the Indiana University alumni were involved in buying out one coach (Kelvin Sampson even though there were also NC$$ violations involved too) and I heard rumors that they want to buy out the current coach Tom Crean who in the six years he has been there (the first ones cleaning up the mess left by Sampson) has a 0.510 winning percentage and two NC$$ tourney bids.

So I guess if the alumni want Courtney to go, they need to pony up the money.

How much you think it'll take?

toddlose
How much you think it'll take?

I'm not sure, but IU alumni care about their basketball 100X times more than I think the Cornell alumni base. When I lived in the land of the Boilermakers (West Lafayette, 2004-2009), it was practically a state of emergency/diaster when the Indiana basketball teams did not make the NC$$s. I don't remember the exact numbers, but a substantial amount of money was pledged to help the athletic department with the financial implications of getting out of the contract.

Keith Olbermann gave a shout-out to the Sweet 16 team last night.

video: [www.youtube.com]

Rita

toddlose
How much you think it'll take?

I'm not sure, but IU alumni care about their basketball 100X times more than I think the Cornell alumni base. When I lived in the land of the Boilermakers (West Lafayette, 2004-2009), it was practically a state of emergency/diaster when the Indiana basketball teams did not make the NC$$s. I don't remember the exact numbers, but a substantial amount of money was pledged to help the athletic department with the financial implications of getting out of the contract.

100X is probably an underestimate. IU alumni probably care 100X more about hoops than Cornell alumni (eLynah company excepted) care about hockey. They are rather fanatical.

What do you think the revenues for men's basketball (ticket sales, fundraising, etc.) will be in 2014-5 if no changes are made?

Weder
Keith Olbermann gave a shout-out to the Sweet 16 team last night.

video: [www.youtube.com]

He told the same story on Countdown when we made the Sweet 16. Hard to believe that was only 4 years ago, Sweet 16 to 1 win

CAS
What do you think the revenues for men's basketball (ticket sales, fundraising, etc.) will be in 2014-5 if no changes are made?

I would imagine revenues were low this year since we knew from the beginning Miller was out and Courtney couldnt coach.

Revenues probably cannot go much lower and we cannot possibly be worse next year, I would think by accident they can get more than 1 win.

toddlose
How much you think it'll take?

Courtney makes somewhere between 200-350K

Harvard gave Mich St (a popular champion pick) a real battle, if Amaker sticks around a Sweet 16 appearance for them seems inevitable.

Andy, now that wrestling is over time to get rid of Courtney. The conference continues to get better with 5 schools in the postseason and Harvard just missing the Sweet 16 while we plummet to a historically bad year. If you dont find a way to fire Courtney now, it is painfully obvious you dont care at all about basketball

Interestingly Steve Donahue was fired with 2 years remaining on a contract that reportedly paid him over $1 million per year. So BC ate in excess of $2 million in dismissing him.

phillysportsfan
Courtney makes somewhere between 200-350K

What's wrong with this picture? According to the 2013 AAUP faculty salary survey, Cornell paid on average $159.8k, $110.7k and $97.8k (9 month equivalents) for Full, Associate and Assistant Professors. CU faculty salaries rank around the 90th percentile among doctoral institutions, but exceeded only Brown in the Ivy League.

It is an endowed position so I don't know how much Cornell actually pays him a year (if anything) vs what the donor pays that endowed the position.

George64

phillysportsfan
Courtney makes somewhere between 200-350K

What's wrong with this picture? According to the 2013 AAUP faculty salary survey, Cornell paid on average $159.8k, $110.7k and $97.8k (9 month equivalents) for Full, Associate and Assistant Professors. CU faculty salaries rank around the 90th percentile among doctoral institutions, but exceeded only Brown in the Ivy League.

Adjusted for cost of living, I'd guess that Cornell is comparable to the other Ivies. I did one calculation, and the average salary for a full professor at Cornell comes out ahead of the salary for a full professor at Columbia who wants to live in Queens.

EDIT: Though I wonder if the average Cornell salaries include the medical school faculty, and if the data for those professors have a significant impact.

Weder
EDIT: Though I wonder if the average Cornell salaries include the medical school faculty, and if the data for those professors have a significant impact.

I recall reading that it's the Ithaca campus only, but I can't find the reference now.

George64

Weder
EDIT: Though I wonder if the average Cornell salaries include the medical school faculty, and if the data for those professors have a significant impact.

I recall reading that it's the Ithaca campus only, but I can't find the reference now.

I remember reading a story years ago about how a Sun reporter looked up the top five highest paid Cornell employees, expecting to find out how much Dale Corson made, but was disappointed to find that the top five were all on the Med School faculty.

Definitely have to adjust for cost of living. A decent house in Cambridge, NYC or Princeton would be at least $1 million. That kind of house in Princeton at least would carry $25K in property taxes.

billhoward
Definitely have to adjust for cost of living. A decent house in Cambridge, NYC or Princeton would be at least $1 million. That kind of house in Princeton at least would carry $25K in property taxes.

But against this you have to weigh that you're living in Cambridge, NYC, or about an hour from either NYC or Philly. YGWYPF.

David Harding
I remember reading a story years ago about how a Sun reporter looked up the top five highest paid Cornell employees, expecting to find out how much Dale Corson made, but was disappointed to find that the top five were all on the Med School faculty.

Sill true, owing largely to practice revenues, according to 2011 IRS 990. By comparison, at BC highest compensated employees include Spaziani (football) $1.1m, Donahue $1.0m, and York $0.5m. Jim Boeheim garnered $2.2m at Syracuse and Mike Krzyzewski scored $10.5m at Duke. These amounts include base compensation, bonuses and incentives, deferred compensation, and nontaxable benefits.

Andy, your silence is deafening.

[collegebasketball.rivals.com]

Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:

"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."

"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."

phillysportsfan
[collegebasketball.rivals.com]

Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:

"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."

"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."

The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?

mountainred

phillysportsfan
[collegebasketball.rivals.com]

Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:

"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."

"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."

The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?

"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....

Ken711

mountainred

phillysportsfan
[collegebasketball.rivals.com]

Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:

"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."

"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."

The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?

"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....

Also from the article: "Unlike a handful of coaches taking over a program, Courtney doesn't need to turn a losing culture into a winning one."

Unfortunatley, his successor will.

mountainred

Ken711

mountainred

phillysportsfan
[collegebasketball.rivals.com]

Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:

"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."

"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."

The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?

"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....

Also from the article: "Unlike a handful of coaches taking over a program, Courtney doesn't need to turn a losing culture into a winning one."

Seems he did just the opposite.

Jeff Hopkins '82

mountainred

Ken711

mountainred

phillysportsfan
[collegebasketball.rivals.com]

Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:

"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."

"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."

The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?

"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....

Also from the article: "Unlike a handful of coaches taking over a program, Courtney doesn't need to turn a losing culture into a winning one."

Seems he did just the opposite.

I don't buy this. Cornell basketball never had a "winning culture". Cornell lacrosse has a winning culture, which is why the program continues to be solid this year without Pannell and DeLuca and all the other departures. Cornell basketball is a historically mediocre-to-bad program that had one really awesome three-year run.

Cornell basketball had a winning Ivy record for each of Donahue's last 6 years. There is no reason
Cornell can't produce a competitive program. Look at the recent success of some of the other Ivies,
who certainly haven't had a winning tradition.

CAS
Cornell basketball had a winning Ivy record for each of Donahue's last 6 years. There is no reason
Cornell can't produce a competitive program. Look at the recent success of some of the other Ivies,
who certainly haven't had a winning tradition.

No, that's true. There's no fundamental reason Cornell can't produce a competitive program, certainly not at the Ivy level. But that's different from acting like they've historically been a successful program.

mountainred
The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?

Now they dont have the time.


[www.thedp.com]

Penn is giving Cornell a good fight for which basketball team is at a lower point, one of their players was just arrested for burglary

Josh '99

CAS
Cornell basketball had a winning Ivy record for each of Donahue's last 6 years. There is no reason
Cornell can't produce a competitive program. Look at the recent success of some of the other Ivies,
who certainly haven't had a winning tradition.

No, that's true. There's no fundamental reason Cornell can't produce a competitive program, certainly not at the Ivy level. But that's different from acting like they've historically been a successful program.

The team Courtney inherited knew only Ivy titles; now there isn't a player left who remembers an Ivy winning record. Harvard's basketball history was even worse than ours until Tommy decided the AI was more of a suggestion than a rule. Harvard now has a culture of winning and they expect to win every Ivy game they play. Team cultures have four year lifespans.

Once upon a time, I would have been very happy to have a program like Penn in basketball. Now that we may have it, I don't want it.

mountainred
Team cultures have four year lifespans.

Thank you for this. Without glossing over how full the collapse has been, can we at least acknowledge that Donohue left Cornell just as the best senior class in Cornell history was graduating? There were some good players left on the team, and they had a history of success, but that success was due mostly to people who were no longer going to be playing basketball for Cornell. There was no team culture of winning. There were better players, so the team won.

ugarte

mountainred
Team cultures have four year lifespans.

Thank you for this. Without glossing over how full the collapse has been, can we at least acknowledge that Donohue left Cornell just as the best senior class in Cornell history was graduating? There were some good players left on the team, and they had a history of success, but that success was due mostly to people who were no longer going to be playing basketball for Cornell. There was no team culture of winning. There were better players, so the team won.

Materialist!

ugarte

mountainred
Team cultures have four year lifespans.

Thank you for this. Without glossing over how full the collapse has been, can we at least acknowledge that Donohue left Cornell just as the best senior class in Cornell history was graduating? There were some good players left on the team, and they had a history of success, but that success was due mostly to people who were no longer going to be playing basketball for Cornell. There was no team culture of winning. There were better players, so the team won.

We are probably way past the beating a dead horse stage, but is anyone not acknowledging that the Class of 2010 was the best senior class in Cornell basketball history? There's a pretty good argument that three of the five best players in school history were in that class.

I completely agree that the team culture when Courtney took over as built by guys who were about to graduate. Still, guys like 'ski, Wire and Peck expected to win and there was the opportunity to maintain some of that. But, team cultures are fragile and can turnover quickly. Our has and the next Cornell basketball coach will have to start from scratch at instilling a winning attitude.