2013-2014 Basketball

nyc94
When is the last time an Ivy team went winless in league play?

Edit: Columbia 2002-2003. Dartmouth in 1964 and 1966 as well.

When is the last the time a team went to the Sweet 16 and was this bad 4 only years later?

25 consecutive D-1 losses. 12 consecutive Ivy losses. Our 2009-2010 team went 29-5 and 13-1 in the Ivies. Just unbelievable how the program fell apart in 4 years.

Princeton was desperate and a bad match-up. The 2009 champs lost in Jadwin by 20. Ken Pomeroy still gives Cornell a 77% chance of winning a league game and our best opportunity is Friday night at home versus Dartmouth. The Big Green stunned Penn and Princeton two weeks ago, but came back to earth a bit with double digit home losses to Brown and Yale this weekend.

What isn't a bad matchup for us?

With Grambling's win tonight over Alcorn St, I believe Cornell now holds the longest current D1 losing streak. Southern Utah is the only other school without a D1 win this year but they won 2/23/13, a week more recently than Cornell's last win.

Luke 05
With Grambling's win tonight over Alcorn St, I believe Cornell now holds the longest current D1 losing streak. Southern Utah is the only other school without a D1 win this year but they won 2/23/13, a week more recently than Cornell's last win.

Just think how much publicity we'll get when we finally win a game!

dbilmes

Luke 05
With Grambling's win tonight over Alcorn St, I believe Cornell now holds the longest current D1 losing streak. Southern Utah is the only other school without a D1 win this year but they won 2/23/13, a week more recently than Cornell's last win.

Just think how much publicity we'll get when we finally win a game!

There's no such thing as bad publicity?

Boston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.

billhoward
Boston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.

Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).

ugarte

billhoward
Boston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.

Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).

Unfortunately I see no way Donahue keeps that job. While he got plenty of time here to turn things around, the ACC is a different story.

scoop85

ugarte

billhoward
Boston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.

Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).

Unfortunately I see no way Donahue keeps that job. While he got plenty of time here to turn things around, the ACC is a different story.

BC is staring at a 24 or 25 loss season. I like Steve, but he's down to his last 8 games as coach there.

mountainred

scoop85

ugarte

billhoward
Boston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.

Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).

Unfortunately I see no way Donahue keeps that job. While he got plenty of time here to turn things around, the ACC is a different story.

BC is staring at a 24 or 25 loss season. I like Steve, but he's down to his last 8 games as coach there.

Put his name into Google. Second suggestion is "Steve Donahue contract". Sixth is "Steve Donahue hot seat". Seventh is "Steve Donahue fired".

In better news, the Big Red their first D1 game. 70-67 over Dartmouth. Cornell loses a 15 point second half lead, but I will take it.

Columbia is in double OT with Harvard. Didn't see that coming.

ugarte
Columbia is in double OT with Harvard. Didn't see that coming.

Did you see the call that sent it to double OT? Rosenberg is called for a charge that wipes out the apparent game winner with two seconds left. If Columbia had fans, there would have been a riot.

Back to losing ways, Cornell falls to Harvard 67-44. Now 2-20 for the season.

Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.

Jordan 04
Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.

Came here to write the same thing. Good for him.

Jordan 04
Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.

62-59 in overtime. Syracuse had some close calls the last few games but who would have expected Boston College to be the one to take them down?

ugarte

Jordan 04
Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.

Came here to write the same thing. Good for him.

A little to this party myself, but I'm happy for Steve.

Jordan 04
Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.

Nice to see a signature win in what unfortunately could be his last season.

Cherry has a career night (29 points), but it isn't nearly enough: Yale 82 Cornell 65.

Cornell up by 2 at the half, 36-34 over Brown. Airing on NBC Sports Network.

Cornell has a one point lead, the ball and a fresh shot clock coming out of a timeout with 38.6 seconds left. LET'S GO RED!

Cornell can't buy a bucket in OT and just got a terrible call against them in OT on what was a clean block. Down 1, 2:36 to go.

ugarte
Cornell can't buy a bucket in OT and just got a terrible call against them in OT on what was a clean block. Down 1, 2:36 to go.

AND THEN THE RAINS CAME

It all went south in a hurry, Cornell went down by 8 and ended up losing by six after a meaningless basket at the buzzer.

They played a pretty decent second half (didn't see the first) and really had a chance to win. Cressler, in the middle of a career game, went 1-for-2 from the line with ~35 seconds left to give CU a two point lead. Brown quickly tied it up, and the play drawn up was Devin Cherry hero ball. Cherry held the ball at the top of the key as the clock wound down and front-rimmed a 17 footer at the buzzer. Honestly, an insane decision and almost enough for me to say "Courtney has to go." Brown was fouling almost every time Cornell drove. No reason to scheme for a long jump shot from a guy who hit his first three of the season on February 22d.

ugarte

ugarte
Cornell can't buy a bucket in OT and just got a terrible call against them in OT on what was a clean block. Down 1, 2:36 to go.

AND THEN THE RAINS CAME

It all went south in a hurry, Cornell went down by 8 and ended up losing by six after a meaningless basket at the buzzer.

They played a pretty decent second half (didn't see the first) and really had a chance to win. Cressler, in the middle of a career game, went 1-for-2 from the line with ~35 seconds left to give CU a two point lead. Brown quickly tied it up, and the play drawn up was Devin Cherry hero ball. Cherry held the ball at the top of the key as the clock wound down and front-rimmed a 17 footer at the buzzer. Honestly, an insane decision and almost enough for me to say "Courtney has to go." Brown was fouling almost every time Cornell drove. No reason to scheme for a long jump shot from a guy who hit his first three of the season on February 22d.

That is the Cornell end of half play, though sometimes it is Cressler in the hero role and once Tarwater (he missed). It almost never works, but Courtney seems to love the play.

2-22? How sad this program has collapsed so far.

Cornell has now lost 28 of its last 29 games versus D-1 opponents. Hard to believe...

CAS
Cornell has now lost 28 of its last 29 games versus D-1 opponents. Hard to believe...

Make that 29 of 30 after a one-side loss to Harvard 47-72.

CAS
Cornell has now lost 28 of its last 29 games versus D-1 opponents. Hard to believe...

I'll say it. What's so hard to believe? This is a historically poor program who had the fantastic fortune to have a 2-year recruiting blip that we fans were able to ride to wonderful, unimaginable heights. The coach who pulled it off took the first offer to the "big-time" he got, and we have returned to where they were before. I enjoyed the exposure, but it's not like this was ever an elite basketball program for decade after decade.

I'll cheer for our student-athletes however far they are able to perform, but c'mon. We've never been a basketball school, and I don't expect them to match the run we recently enjoyed ever again.

There are no excuses to lose 29 of 30, and 18 of 19 in the Ivies. If you accept losing, you will. I'm not calling for Cornell to return to the Sweet 16. Is it unreasonable to expect a competitive Ivy program? Do Columbia and Brown have winning traditions? Both are 7-4 in the league this year.

We've never been a basketball power, true, but historically the league conceded that title to the Penn/Princeton winner, so you can say that about the other six schools. Other than a span in the early 70's when we may have had the worst program in the nation, we've been fairly competitive in the Ivies. Not the P's, but not nearly as bad as Dartmouth or Columbia. Generally, you'd find the Big Red around 4th or 5th place.

Now, just four year removed from the pinnacle of our basketball success (and I agree success that is highly unlikely to be repeated), we will set a school record for losses. The only other time Cornell lost 23 basketball games in a season, the coach was fired (well, told to resign) with 9 games left reportedly because of excessive drinking. That's quite the precipitous fall. And keep in mind your top four in the league standings right now are: Harvard, Yale, Brown and Columbia. Granted Amaker is playing fast and loose with AI, but it's not like any of those programs have a basketball history that is any better than ours.

The term "paradigm shift" is overused, but the three straight league titles and sweet 16 run were truly an opportunity for Cornell to recast itself as an Ivy contender, especially in light of the P's dropping off. That kind of opportunity comes along once a generation and has been lost.

Now 30 of 31 losses going back to last season after tonight's loss at Dartmouth.

Ken711
Now 30 of 31 losses going back to last season after tonight's loss at Dartmouth.

We moved up in RPI.

Still 25 teams below us.

Trotsky

Ken711
Now 30 of 31 losses going back to last season after tonight's loss at Dartmouth.

We moved up in RPI.

Still 25 teams below us.

Alright, that's what I call progress

That RPI uptick is purely a factor of playing RPI #60 Harvard. Despite the name, realtime RPI hasn't taken the Dartmouth game into account yet. What's harder to explain is how our KenPom ranking went up (granted from #336 to #333) after the loss at Dartmouth.

We are at 326 RPI, between Kennesaw State and Prairie View A&M. Binghamton, a team we played close except in the final score, is 328.

The rest of the Ivies:

060 Harvard
127 Columbia
130 Yale
145 Princeton
206 Brown
293 Penn
294 Dartmouth
326 Cornell

Small consolation: We played two overtime games (lost). We played one 1-point game (SIE, lost*). We played a 3-point game (Dartmouth, won). We played one 4-point game (Yale, lost). We led Syracuse 'til midway into the second half. We kept #3 Louisville from doubling (99-54). Only one team managed triple figures (Notre Dame).

We have the rare chance for a weekend home sweep of league royalty Princeton (iffy) and Penn (doable). Even when they're having an off year, beating a Penn or Princeton is like another Ivy beating Cornell hockey. Penn is the Saturday game, so that would be a nice sendoff for the seniors.

* Had to look the abbreviation up: SIE in the schedule summary is Siena not Southern Illinois Edwardsville. Don't click the Siena site unless necessary. It autoplays a Time Warner Cable video.

mountainred
That RPI uptick is purely a factor of playing RPI #60 Harvard. Despite the name, realtime RPI hasn't taken the Dartmouth game into account yet. What's harder to explain is how our KenPom ranking went up (granted from #336 to #333) after the loss at Dartmouth.

Maybe late reporting of law boards and MCATS.

billhoward

Small consolation: We played two overtime games (lost). We played one 1-point game (SIE, lost*). We played a 3-point game (Dartmouth, won). We played one 4-point game (Yale, lost). We led Syracuse 'til midway into the second half. We kept #3 Louisville from doubling (99-54). Only one team managed triple figures (Notre Dame).

We have the rare chance for a weekend home sweep of league royalty Princeton (iffy) and Penn (doable). Even when they're having an off year, beating a Penn or Princeton is like another Ivy beating Cornell hockey. Penn is the Saturday game, so that would be a nice sendoff for the seniors.

I think you are working too hard to find a bright spot. The 87 Dartmouth scored last night is the most the Big Green have had against a D1 opponent since November 2007. Our defense has come by its #350 out of 351 ranking honestly.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Penn. One thing about these guys, they play hard. Penn, on the other hand, looks like they are going through the motions.

You know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."

billhoward
You know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."

Hadn't hear it before, but it sure applies.

billhoward
You know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."

I'd be happy if we can find a Shetland in there somewhere.

mountainred

billhoward
You know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."

I'd be happy if we can find a Shetland in there somewhere.

More likely a

I would hope that by late next week we'll know if BC will still be here next year. If AN plans on giving Bill the heave oh, very few things would cause him to let this drag out.

Down at one point 25-0, Cornell loses by 40, 91-51.

Swampy
Down at one point 25-0, Cornell loses by 40, 91-51.

Even cornell football is typically less embarrassing than that.

Meanwhile, Columbia crushed Penn to clinch its first winning ivy season since 93...

Hard to believe there could be any chance Courtney can be retained after such a humiliation.

scoop85
Hard to believe there could be any chance Courtney can be retained after such a humiliation.

We are going to find out where hoops ranks in the Cornell sports hierarchy. Is it a sport that matters (the school buys out the fifth year of BC's contract and starts over) or is it a sport we are contractually obligated to field (BC stays for the lamest of lame duck seasons). Is there any doubt that a similar season would result in a changing of the guard in hockey?

I hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.

CAS
I hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.

First thought: Why in the world would Iles be paying attention to basketball? Oh, wait....

CAS
I hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.

It's not just a 40 point loss, it was 25-0 eight minutes in and effectively over. The 1017 people who showed up got treated to a scrimmage from there.

Princeton also came to Ithaca with a losing Ivy record

Robb

CAS
I hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.

First thought: Why in the world would Iles be paying attention to basketball? Oh, wait....

Exactly. Who cares about basketball?

Seriously, have to pay off DeLuca and possibly recruit a top lax coach at the same time that pressure is increasing on Desko at Syracuse. Courtney might get his last year.

Many of us care about basketball.
We have a lacrosse coach. That's not what we need.

After today, the "search" for a lax coach may be a lesser priority.

mountainred
After today, the "search" for a lax coach may be a lesser priority.

After losing 16 seniors, obviously it's the system.

Final game of the season (unless a slew of forefeits gives us the Ivy AQ). Give the condemned man a day of peace?

I actually expect the guys to win tonight and hope they do. Penn may be an even bigger mess and Hicks may be out (he was tossed from last night's game for throwing a punch at a Columbia player).

mountainred
I actually expect the guys to win tonight and hope they do. Penn may be an even bigger mess and Hicks may be out (he was tossed from last night's game for throwing a punch at a Columbia player).

Probably missed, even if it happened within 2-point range.

billhoward

mountainred
I actually expect the guys to win tonight and hope they do. Penn may be an even bigger mess and Hicks may be out (he was tossed from last night's game for throwing a punch at a Columbia player).

Probably missed, even if it happened within 2-point range.

+1

This senior night ceremony is embarrassing. I can only imagine what they were thinking as recruits.

CAS
I hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.

I'm sure all Andy cares about this weekend is EIWAs.

Last 5 minutes, a one-score game starts to slip away and Penn pulls up by 7. Would have been 9 but for a rejected Penn dunk by the rim. Got it 4 with :35, :11 and :00 to play. Final, Penn 69, Cornell 65.

No matter, season ends with 1 Ivy win, 1 D-III non-Ivy win: 1-13 Ivy, 2-26 overall. Hey, they tried. Posted at 9:00 p.m. How much of a respite 'til the knives come out?

Penn 69 Cornell 65 final.

The 2014-15 season begins.

mountainred
Penn 69 Cornell 65 final.

The 2014-15 season begins.

Could it ever be worse than this season? AN are you reading this?

billhoward
1 D-III non-Ivy win

Oberlin thinks of themselves as Ivy-like, does that count for anything?

mountainred

billhoward
1 D-III non-Ivy win

Oberlin thinks of themselves as Ivy-like, does that count for anything?

Ivy-liked in what way: times since 1965 they occupied the president's office? overwrought faculty meetings? tuition, room and board? classes dropped for emotional wellness reasons? alumni now raiders of Wall Street? alumni shaping the news on TV? Oberlin certainly gives sophisticated thought to the name of its Ultimate team: Oberlin Flying Horsecows vs. Cornell Buds.

billhoward

mountainred

billhoward
1 D-III non-Ivy win

Oberlin thinks of themselves as Ivy-like, does that count for anything?

Ivy-liked in what way: times since 1965 they occupied the president's office? overwrought faculty meetings? tuition, room and board? classes dropped for emotional wellness reasons? alumni now raiders of Wall Street? alumni shaping the news on TV? Oberlin certainly gives sophisticated thought to the name of its Ultimate team: Oberlin Flying Horsecows vs. Cornell Buds.

That sounds Ivy-like to me.

I assume we'll find out in the next few days if Andy Noel cares at all about basketball.

CAS
I assume we'll find out in the next few days if Andy Noel cares at all about basketball.

Or if the school has a preference regarding eating expensive head coaching contracts.

ugarte

CAS
I assume we'll find out in the next few days if Andy Noel cares at all about basketball.

Or if the school has a preference regarding eating expensive head coaching contracts.

Oh, I'm sure they have a preference there.

Cressler was named Honorable Mention all-Ivy. Congratulations to Nolan.

Cornell is a combined 37-78 during the Bill Courtney era.

CAS
Cornell is a combined 37-78 during the Bill Courtney era.

Cornell was 32-76 during Donahue's first 4 years, though he was showing improvement. There were then two more losing seasons before Steve had his first winning campaign.

Steve inherited a much more difficult situation than Bill. Steve's teams generally improved throughout his tenure, and Cornell went 6-8 in the Ivies in year 4. In year 5 Cornell went 8-6 and finished 2nd in the league. Not sure how Steve's record is relevant in evaluating Bill.

CAS
Steve inherited a much more difficult situation than Bill. Steve's teams generally improved throughout his tenure, and Cornell went 6-8 in the Ivies in year 4. In year 5 Cornell went 8-6 and finished 2nd in the league. Not sure how Steve's record is relevant in evaluating Bill.

It's relevant in demonstrating how the school does or does not react to coaching record.

I argue it's not a good comparison. Steve inherited a losing program and was making good progress after 4 years. Bill started after all the positive press of 3 consecutive Ivy titles and a Sweet 16, and has lost 32 of his last 33 D-1 games.

CAS
I argue it's not a good comparison. Steve inherited a losing program and was making good progress after 4 years. Bill started after all the positive press of 3 consecutive Ivy titles and a Sweet 16, and has lost 32 of his last 33 D-1 games.

He also started after everyone who made that team a winner had graduated. The rest of Donohue's recruits going forward weren't that great and, whatever advantage Cornell was supposed to get in recruiting from a Sweet 16 appearance probably disappeared the second the coach from that team took the BC job.

I'm not even arguing in favor of Courtney - this year was so awful that a firing wouldn't be undeserved - but I don't think it matches up with the reality of how Cornell has run the basketball program to expect that the school fires coaches for on-court performance. Our football program has been generally moribund and I still think we lose more coaches to better offers than we do to the axe.

Not every key player from the Sweet 16 team graduated in 2010. But more importantly this year's team is Bill's team - it featured 3 classes of his recruits.

CAS
Not every key player from the Sweet 16 team graduated in 2010.

That team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.

And what's your defense for the performance of this year's team?

CAS
And what's your defense for the performance of this year's team?

None. See above.

Here is the thing about this season: The team was making the same mistakes on defense at the end of the season that it did at the start of the season which was the following:

No sliding over by players to help on interior defense which let opposing players drive to the basket
No rotation off of double teams thus leaving guys on the outside for wide open threes

It leads one to believe that either the players Courtney recruited are not capable or whatever message he was driving was not getting across

Yes-Shonn Miller returns next season but that is not the whole answer. There are immense problems and leads one to hope that Courtney's recruits might bring some other scoring options besides Nolan Cressler and Devin Cherry. Give him the final year of the contract. Not blaming Andy Noel for the hire-Courtney had some great credentials but as a long time season ticket holder it has been painful to watch this mess.

rss77
Here is the thing about this season: The team was making the same mistakes on defense at the end of the season that it did at the start of the season which was the following:

No sliding over by players to help on interior defense which let opposing players drive to the basket
No rotation off of double teams thus leaving guys on the outside for wide open threes

It leads one to believe that either the players Courtney recruited are not capable or whatever message he was driving was not getting across

Yes-Shonn Miller returns next season but that is not the whole answer. There are immense problems and leads one to hope that Courtney's recruits might bring some other scoring options besides Nolan Cressler and Devin Cherry. Give him the final year of the contract. Not blaming Andy Noel for the hire-Courtney had some great credentials but as a long time season ticket holder it has been painful to watch this mess.

This is basically my attitude. You let the contract play out, you see if 2014-15 shows real promise, but it isn't like I think he's earned a renewal.

ugarte
That team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.

How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?

tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?

Trotsky

ugarte
That team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.

How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?

tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?

As I recall, it wasn't like Donohue was an ace recruiter. Whittman wasn't recruited heavily because of an injury; Dale wasn't recruited, he sought out Cornell; and Foote transferred from St. Bonaventure after his mother, a nurse, met the Cornell team who was visiting a seriously injured player (Khaliq Gant, I think) in the hospital. Foote certainly developed, however, during his time on the Hill. [Washington Post article]

George64

Trotsky

ugarte
That team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.

How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?

tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?

As I recall, it wasn't like Donohue was an ace recruiter. Whittman wasn't recruited heavily because of an injury; Dale wasn't recruited, he sought out Cornell; and Foote transferred from St. Bonaventure after his mother, a nurse, met the Cornell team who was visiting a seriously injured player (Khaliq Gant, I think) in the hospital. Foote certainly developed, however, during his time on the Hill. [Washington Post article]

Agreed. The stars aligned brilliantly for that run. It wasn't a sudden influx of blue chip players.

Cornell Chronicle article about Khalig Gant.

George64

Trotsky

ugarte
That team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.

How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?

tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?

As I recall, it wasn't like Donohue was an ace recruiter. Whittman wasn't recruited heavily because of an injury; Dale wasn't recruited, he sought out Cornell; and Foote transferred from St. Bonaventure after his mother, a nurse, met the Cornell team who was visiting a seriously injured player (Khaliq Gant, I think) in the hospital. Foote certainly developed, however, during his time on the Hill. [Washington Post article]

This is it: it was luck.

Wittman's dad played in the NBA (and is currently the head coach of the Wizards) and he was expected to play above the Ivy League, but he got hurt his senior year. One of the advantages of having a dad who is the coach of (at the time) the Timberwolves is that you don't need a scholarship. Donahue got him, which was a great get, because he was an amazing Ivy player.

Louis Dale was a 5'9" guard out of Birmingham. There is no reason he shouldn't have been recruited by all of the Ivies but Birmingham is a little off of the recruiting trail. He sent a tape to Cornell and Donahue and staff couldn't believe that nobody had heard of a kid that good with Ivy academic credentials. Snapped him up.

When Khaliq Gant, Cornell's best player at the time, broke his neck during a January 2006 practice, he ended up getting treated at an upstate NY hospital. One of his nurses was very impressed with the sense of camaraderie she saw in the Cornell team and coaching staff, who were regular visitors during Gant's recovery. She mentioned that her son, a 7'1" center at St. Bonaventure, was unhappy with his school and wondered if Cornell had a place for him since everyone seemed much happier. Donahue said yes, fed the kid like he was foie gras, and taught him how to improve his footwork.

And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.

CAS
Steve inherited a much more difficult situation than Bill. Steve's teams generally improved throughout his tenure, and Cornell went 6-8 in the Ivies in year 4. In year 5 Cornell went 8-6 and finished 2nd in the league. Not sure how Steve's record is relevant in evaluating Bill.

I didn't say it was.

ugarte


And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.

While Kentucky certainly opened up a big lead after our initial punch, for whatever reason it's often overlooked that Cornell did cut the deficit to 6 with 5+ minutes to play. 6 straight Kentucky points later, it was essentially over.

Jordan 04

ugarte


And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.

While Kentucky certainly opened up a big lead after our initial punch, for whatever reason it's often overlooked that Cornell did cut the deficit to 6 with 5+ minutes to play. 6 straight Kentucky points later, it was essentially over.

I mean... come on, Jordan. We opened on a 10-2 run. They then essentially did that to us three times and the score was 32-16 at halftime. After the half Kentucky put the game on cruise control.

ugarte
***
And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.

Careful ugarte, you are beginning to sound like one of those Penn fans who refuse to acknowledge Cornell's title run or sweet sixteen appearance as legitimate. I know you don't want that.

I agree that while our guys competed hard with Kentucky and made a nice late run, there was never a moment in the second half when I thought we were actually going to win. Still, they made a thinly-disguised NBA D-league team sweat a little and work for the win.

But the Temple and Wisconsin wins were hardly NCAA gifts. Sure, Cornell was a trendy upset pick (good Ivy teams always are because it makes good copy), but there were plenty of basketball experts who thought Temple was underseeded and that the Big Red would never crack their top 10 ranked defense. Plus, Dunphy and Temple knew the Ivy League wouldn't take an Ivy team lightly. Wisconsin had wins over Duke, Michigan State and Ohio State. Ken Pomeroy has both Temple and Wisconin in his final top 15. They were good teams.

And Cornell waxed them. These were not flukey buzzer-beaters; both games were basically over with 10 minutes left (not that I didn't hang on every play and worry about every small momentum change). The guys saved their best two games for the NCAA tournament and crushed two very solid teams.

ugarte

rss77
Here is the thing about this season: The team was making the same mistakes on defense at the end of the season that it did at the start of the season which was the following:

No sliding over by players to help on interior defense which let opposing players drive to the basket
No rotation off of double teams thus leaving guys on the outside for wide open threes

It leads one to believe that either the players Courtney recruited are not capable or whatever message he was driving was not getting across

Yes-Shonn Miller returns next season but that is not the whole answer. There are immense problems and leads one to hope that Courtney's recruits might bring some other scoring options besides Nolan Cressler and Devin Cherry. Give him the final year of the contract. Not blaming Andy Noel for the hire-Courtney had some great credentials but as a long time season ticket holder it has been painful to watch this mess.

This is basically my attitude. You let the contract play out, you see if 2014-15 shows real promise, but it isn't like I think he's earned a renewal.

I guess my attitude is the evidence after four years is pretty overwhelming that Courtney isn't the right person for the job and letting him finish out his contract is merely delaying the inevitable. And the message you send the world is "look, basketball really isn't that big a deal here; we'd rather save the money and not pay someone not to coach." Of course, that message is probably the truth and Courtney seems like a good man and the team seems to like him.

The hiring decision made sense. The recruiting arms race in the Ivy League has really escalated -- thanks largely to Tommy A and his AI games -- and Bill was known for his recruiting. He's just needed to have a solid X and O guy on the bench and hasn't. Jay Larranaga was supposed to be that guy, but he left town almost before he arrived. His replacement, Marlon Sears, is a coach known best for being a good recruiter. That has left the Big Red a real disadvantage, especially since the recruiting has been a mixed bag: Miller and Cressler have worked out well; Cancer, Harmon and Bunce not as much. That's probably sufficient if you develop great schemes, but not if you don't.

mountainred

ugarte
***
And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.

Careful ugarte, you are beginning to sound like one of those Penn fans who refuse to acknowledge Cornell's title run or sweet sixteen appearance as legitimate. I know you don't want that.

I agree that while our guys competed hard with Kentucky and made a nice late run, there was never a moment in the second half when I thought we were actually going to win. Still, they made a thinly-disguised NBA D-league team sweat a little and work for the win.

But the Temple and Wisconsin wins were hardly NCAA gifts. Sure, Cornell was a trendy upset pick (good Ivy teams always are because it makes good copy), but there were plenty of basketball experts who thought Temple was underseeded and that the Big Red would never crack their top 10 ranked defense. Plus, Dunphy and Temple knew the Ivy League wouldn't take an Ivy team lightly. Wisconsin had wins over Duke, Michigan State and Ohio State. Ken Pomeroy has both Temple and Wisconin in his final top 15. They were good teams.

And Cornell waxed them. These were not flukey buzzer-beaters; both games were basically over with 10 minutes left (not that I didn't hang on every play and worry about every small momentum change). The guys saved their best two games for the NCAA tournament and crushed two very solid teams.

I agree with all of this! I'm not saying Wisconsin and Temple weren't excellent teams. They were. So was Cornell! But it is a team that had specific matchup problems that weren't manifest against teams that didn't score well and focused on interior defense.

Harvard is a 12 seed, plays Cincinnati in Spokane on Thursday.

nyc94
Harvard is a 12 seed, plays Cincinnati in Spokane on Thursday.

And CBS / ESPN go on about how this is a well coached team that really could pull an upset. Like to see Harvard win the first one but have it remain only special Ivy teams that survive the first weekend.

Did my heart good to see Rick Pitino go on and on Saturday about how his Louisville deserved a 1-seed ... then Sunday got a 4-seed. But then he can feel good that Kentucky got an 8-seed.

[www.cbssports.com]

Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year

[www.thetournament.com]

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