Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust

Sophisticated in Collegetown? Another new try. [ithacavoice.org]

That has to be a brothel.

RichH

David Harding
Kilpatrick's Pub downtown is closing, to be replaced by another (unnamed) "pub-style establishment" in a few months. [www.14850.com] [ithacavoice.org]

Not the Finger lakes Beverage Center too!! That’s a loss I’ll feel. That was a great shop.

Ugh. I stopped in there every summer. The selection was so much better than wegmans or p&c. That sucks.

pfibiger

RichH

David Harding
Kilpatrick's Pub downtown is closing, to be replaced by another (unnamed) "pub-style establishment" in a few months. [www.14850.com] [ithacavoice.org]

Not the Finger lakes Beverage Center too!! That’s a loss I’ll feel. That was a great shop.

Ugh. I stopped in there every summer. The selection was so much better than wegmans or p&c. That sucks.

Ithaca Coffee Company in Triphammer Mall has a pretty strong beer selection, though obviously a much smaller space than Finger Lakes.

David Harding
Sophisticated in Collegetown? Another new try. [ithacavoice.org]

Looking at the Menu I dont see myself having a reason to every go there.

Not Collegetown and just for sale, but one could be concerned about the fate of Chanticleer. [www.14850.com]

David Harding
Not Collegetown and just for sale, but one could be concerned about the fate of Chanticleer. [www.14850.com]

They say that there are no plans to close the bar, and I'm happy to hear it, because losing the Chanticleer would be a stake in my heart. It's one of the last remnants of "old Ithaca" revelry.

With Johnny's, the Palms, the one I can't even mention without getting very, very sad, and others gone, there's so little left. It's like the Chanticleer and the Creeker and that's it.

Scersk '97
With Johnny's, the Palms, the one I can't even mention without getting very, very sad, and others gone, there's so little left. It's like the Chanticleer and the Creeker and that's it.

Where is historic preservation when you need it?

I'd rather the Palms still be around than, say, the snail darter. Which actually is still around although a Tennessee dam that threatened them was built.

Let's posit that dive bars were authentic in the 40s-60s and nostalgic in the 70s-90s, with dive bars themselves being a bar food echo of road houses (00s-20s / 30s-50s).

If that's true, that seems like a natural lifespan, and from the 00s on it dies off to be replaced by something else.

Oswald Spengler should have written more about bars.

Something else replaced these, as culture never sleeps. I don't know if that's the club scene (evolved from discos) or what -- I have the Critical Old.

The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Trotsky
Let's posit that dive bars were authentic in the 40s-60s and nostalgic in the 70s-90s, with dive bars themselves being a bar food echo of road houses (00s-20s / 30s-50s). ...

Dive bar" may take on a different name so students / young adults / slackers have something their own. Still: There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.

billhoward
There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.

Oh, definitely. But those places are in poor neighborhoods, not well-scrubbed collegetowns. And they're real, they're not Slumming Adventureland. So they aren't dive bars, they're real bars with real people. Albany has a dozen of them, and no college student -- possibly no college graduate -- has ever been in one. The people there are not there because Let's Go To A Dive Bar (giggle). They're there because late stage capitalism is soul destroying and getting drunk is cheaper than a streaming service.

ugarte

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday. I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

Jeff Hopkins '82

ugarte

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday. I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

were you that upset about them enforcing a rule. Did you go complain when a grocery store wouldnt let you buy beer? or when the DMV made you wait until your birthday to get your permit?

I can't recall all the details about bars and door people but ~10 years ago, Level B was always the place that people who were underaged would avoid from what I personally saw and heard. Dunbar's was in the middle I would say with a certain other place that no longer exists being perhaps the most lenient.

Scersk '97

Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

This is true in theory, but back when it was 18 they followed the Categorical Imperative: card men, let women pass. One of my undergrad friend's little sisters used to drink with us at Chariot at 15, and she looked young for 15. Also used to go topless at SCA events at Risley. It was a very different time.

She's a minister now, LOL.

Jeff Hopkins '82

ugarte

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday. I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

When I was 19 and very semitically babyfaced, my roommate gave me a driver's license that he found in the back of a cab that told the Dunbar's bartender that I was ashy blonde, 27 and 6'5".

ugarte
When I was 19 and very semitically babyfaced, my roommate gave me a driver's license that he found in the back of a cab that told the Dunbar's bartender that I was ashy blonde, 27 and 6'5".

McLovin is 42.

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.

Trotsky

billhoward
There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.

Oh, definitely. But those places are in poor neighborhoods, not well-scrubbed collegetowns. And they're real, they're not Slumming Adventureland. So they aren't dive bars, they're real bars with real people. Albany has a dozen of them, and no college student -- possibly no college graduate -- has ever been in one. The people there are not there because Let's Go To A Dive Bar (giggle). They're there because late stage capitalism is soul destroying and getting drunk is cheaper than a streaming service.

We had one of those about a block from my apartment in New Orleans, but I was always to chicken to go in. But now they have a website, so they're probably not a real dive bar either: [snakeandjakes.com]

Trotsky

Scersk '97

Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

This is true in theory, but back when it was 18 they followed the Categorical Imperative: card men, let women pass. One of my undergrad friend's little sisters used to drink with us at Chariot at 15, and she looked young for 15. Also used to go topless at SCA events at Risley. It was a very different time.
She's a minister now, LOL.

a) When NJ Wall Streeter Jon Corzine ran for governor, he was asked what he thought about the drinking age being raised to 21? Corzine said: It was? then recovered and thoughtfully said, Well, if you can get your ass shot off in Afghanistan Iraq Vietnam you name, you ought to be able to have a drink. ... this commonsense comment get him in hot water and a day later he said he had been miscontrued, which he had not.
b) Historically, good looking women got an age allowance on admission, and big city bars with velvet ropes and bouncers would let good women pass the line ahead of others, sometimes also raising the F/M ratio to 55/45 or so, making men more desirous of getting in.
c) which church is this? are they looking for members?

For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920

1933: 2118, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment). [edit add: Wiki pegs the end of prohibition as resuming the NYS 18-year drinking age.]
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

Drinking age was actually lowered to 18 in 1971. Had my first legal beer at Noyes Center in October 71

billhoward
For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920
1933: 21, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment)
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

This is so wrong. I was drinking in a neighborhood bar in 1969 at age 17 because my friend, the Boy Scout Program Director for our camp, told the owner my buddies and I were 18. Those 16 and under were left out.

The date prior to 1969 when the legal age was set 18 in NY is a mystery to me as it was all I ever knew in the days before I imbibed.

I also have vivid memories of the guy from Cleveland who roomed across the hall from me being almost carried back to his UHall 2303 room after his first night of legal drinking in September 1970.

marty

billhoward
For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920
1933: 21, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment)
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

This is so wrong. I was drinking in a neighborhood bar in 1969 at age 17 because my friend, the Boy Scout Program Director for our camp, told the owner my buddies and I were 18. Those 16 and under were left out.

The date prior to 1969 when the legal age was set 18 in NY is a mystery to me as it was all I ever knew in the days before I imbibed.

I also have vivid memories of the guy from Cleveland who roomed across the hall from me being almost carried back to his UHall 2303 room after his first night of legal drinking in September 1970.

It was already 18 when I was a freshman in 1964.

ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

upprdeck
ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

marty

upprdeck
ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

my experience it was more like 16 until the 80s

billhoward
c) which church is this?

Unitarian Universalist. Of course.

jtwcornell91
One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.

There is a belief that some bars try to keep out people beyond their 20s, certainly their 30s, and they'll reject you for not having a license. The bouncer is told to say, "We treat everyone equally, have to show ID." There have been a couple cases where someone obviously over 21 who left his ID at home or in the car, has sued, perhaps mostly because he's pissed off, and the courts have agreed. It happened to me in my early 30s in Northampton, Mass., a clearly college community, and they used the line "we card everybody." This is an era before people learned to mouth the words I Want to Speak to Your Manager. So you could be rejected at a higher level.

billhoward

jtwcornell91
One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.

There is a belief that some bars try to keep out people beyond their 20s, certainly their 30s, and they'll reject you for not having a license. The bouncer is told to say, "We treat everyone equally, have to show ID." There have been a couple cases where someone obviously over 21 who left his ID at home or in the car, has sued, perhaps mostly because he's pissed off, and the courts have agreed. It happened to me in my early 30s in Northampton, Mass., a clearly college community, and they used the line "we card everybody." This is an era before people learned to mouth the words I Want to Speak to Your Manager. So you could be rejected at a higher level.

I'm pretty sure The Chapter House never tried to keep anyone out for being too old.

Nor did the Royal Palm, 1941-2012, keep anyone out for being too old. Always seemed to be a number of alumni/grad students who never wanted to leave and who never believed they'd go bald on top and have a gray ponytail before reaching 40.

Why can't the National Register of Historic Places fight to keep alive one like-a-dive-bar bar in each college town? Has to be college related, so the Chanticleer downtown would never to qualify under another section of the law. The Fall Creek House would.

They should have saved the ceiling from the Palms. My god that was disgusting.

More restaurant action, though not in Collegetown. Kelly's on the west side of town is for sale. [www.14850.com]

Not the worlds best Pizza but i guess I didnt notice Pats shut down the ithaca location a few months ago. It was good value with large slices and some nice slice variety.

Scersk '97

Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

During my years (88-92) it was usually a backup goalie (Jim Crozier). Tough to get in underage (unless you were on the team of course).

And regarding the legal drinking age, there was a pure arbitrage opportunity just waiting to be exploited --> Montreal!! Toronto was closer, but Montreal was worth the extra couple of hours. Drinking age was 18 and back in my day it was C$2/US$1. Went there many many times.

What happened to the Johnny’s Big Red Grill sign? Here’s the answer!

George64
What happened to the Johnny’s Big Red Grill sign? Here’s the answer!

Thanks for pointing out the article. I was prompted to look up the American Sign Museum and found the Johnny's sign in their on-line catalog. [www.americansignmuseum.org]

What happened to make Ithaca Beer close in collegetown?

upprdeck
What happened to make Ithaca Beer close in collegetown?

No answer to the question, but a mention of the closing along with longer accounts of several other Collegetown restaurant closings. [www.14850.com]

David Harding

upprdeck
What happened to make Ithaca Beer close in collegetown?

No answer to the question, but a mention of the closing along with longer accounts of several other Collegetown restaurant closings. [www.14850.com]

Maybe it was the ugly interior design interacting with an agoraphobia-creating swathe of windows?

Bring back Oliver's! (And all the other spaces we are missing.)

Scersk '97
Bring back Oliver's! (And all the other spaces we are missing.)

Seconded.

Also, raze any building in C-town over 2 stories.

good news is that Wing over finally brought back crinkle fries

marty

upprdeck
ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

Mature crowd this week. No one made a play on pass and piss.

Two summers ago we were motorboating along Cayuga Lake and stopped at a waterfront restaurant a third of the way up the west side. It was so nostalgic, I think the most sophisticated menu item was a burger with onion rings, and the warmish day called for a Genny Cream. My wife, whose teen years were in Thailand, found Genny nothing special. Other than cold.

But she didn't appreciate the beauty of a 24-pack, that or Rolling Rock, for, what, $2 (I think), in the early 1970s. Actually, if you run the inflation calculator, cheap beer today is cheaper. A $1.99 case of beer equals $12 today; if it was $2.99 a case it'd be $19.

Trotsky

Scersk '97
Bring back Oliver's! (And all the other spaces we are missing.)

Seconded.

Also, raze any building in C-town over 2 stories.

Even the three-story wood-frame buildings of the fifties? If any are left?

billhoward

Trotsky

Scersk '97
Bring back Oliver's! (And all the other spaces we are missing.)

Seconded.

Also, raze any building in C-town over 2 stories.

Even the three-story wood-frame buildings of the fifties? If any are left?

I'm quite partial to the 3-story houses from the 19th century that are frequent in the East Hill Historic Preservation District, having grown up in one of them. I'll point out that the building that used to house the much-mourned Chapter House was three stories, as is its replacement.

billhoward

Trotsky

Scersk '97
Bring back Oliver's! (And all the other spaces we are missing.)

Seconded.

Also, raze any building in C-town over 2 stories.

Even the three-story wood-frame buildings of the fifties? If any are left?

Fine. Raze every building erected since 1945.

billhoward

marty

upprdeck
ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

Mature crowd this week. No one made a play on pass and piss.

Two summers ago we were motorboating along Cayuga Lake and stopped at a waterfront restaurant a third of the way up the west side. It was so nostalgic, I think the most sophisticated menu item was a burger with onion rings, and the warmish day called for a Genny Cream. My wife, whose teen years were in Thailand, found Genny nothing special. Other than cold.

But she didn't appreciate the beauty of a 24-pack, that or Rolling Rock, for, what, $2 (I think), in the early 1970s. Actually, if you run the inflation calculator, cheap beer today is cheaper. A $1.99 case of beer equals $12 today; if it was $2.99 a case it'd be $19.

I'm guessing O'Malley's which has been there forever. I used to go with my Grandparents- it was an adventure across the lake for burgers and fried fish.

1/3 of the way up wouldnt be Omallays though thats like 1/2 half but perhaps close enough

The Pines would be more like 1/8 up the lake if you can get to it from a boat

upprdeck
1/3 of the way up wouldnt be Omallays though thats like 1/2 half but perhaps close enough

The Pines would be more like 1/8 up the lake if you can get to it from a boat

oof the stairs from the bottom would be brutal!

That said, there really isn't enough boat up dining on Cayuga, which TBH isn't a bad thing, not every lake has to be max developed.

there used to be some places towards the other end on the west side. not sure if they have all closed up.