Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by Big Dingus
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: underskill (---.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 22, 2025 05:15PM
Can’t Cornell get Larry Tannenbaum to fund a men’s hockey collective and just try to buy a championship?
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: adamw (---.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
Date: April 22, 2025 08:52PM
BearLover
On the other hand, that reason I won’t “admit that I’m wrong” on teams opting into the House settlement is because your argument makes no sense! That’s just my opinion, obviously, but I won’t admit I’m wrong because I don’t think I’m wrong! Let me spell this out again:
A team, let’s say North Dakota (ND), is faced with the decision whether to opt into the House settlement. Opting in entails certain benefits: (1) the ability to share revenues with players and (2) the ability to award scholarships above the existing 18-scholly limit.
Opting in also has a cost: roster sizes cannot go above 26.
Let’s denote the benefits as B and the costs as C.
ND will opt into the settlement if B>C.
ND did not opt into the settlement because B<C. In ND’s view, the cost of limiting the roster to 26 players did not trump the benefits of revenue sharing or additional scholarships.
If revenue sharing were a large enough benefit, B>C and then they would opt in. But they didn't opt in, because revenue sharing is not a substantial enough benefit to counteract the cost.
It’s interesting Denver did opt in, despite what sounded like serious hesitation on the part of their AD on your podcast (which I did listen to).
Let’s see what other schools do in the future. My point on this issue remains the same: outside of the power 4 schools, these athletic depts break even at best, and there seems to be little if any revenue to be shared. I think the fact ND didn’t opt in is very revealing, given they run probably the biggest revenue generating hockey program in the NCAA.
We’ll see how things change in the future. LGR
Your logic is not only flawed - but my information comes straight from the horse's mouth of multiple ADs. So again - whatever.
North Dakota will literally opt in next year, when the dust settles. So there alone throws everything out the window. When I told their AD there are some people who believe it meant they didn't have enough revenue, he literally laughed out loud. So you can dream whatever you want into North Dakota's decision and conclude in fantasy land that it's "very revealing" - but it's literally not at all revealing. shrug.
I'm not sure where you heard hesitation from the Denver AD in regards to the amount of revenue. You're inventing that. His only hesitation was over the roster limits, and not wanting to jump the gun until they had a chance to discuss as a university. They have no concern over revenue. I chat with him every time I see him at Denver home games - and just saw him in St. Louis.
You keep repeating the remarks about how most schools lose money on athletics, and generally, this is true over the years. It's also irrelevant to this topic. It has no bearing. The entire economic structure is changing. And operating at a loss has not stopped schools from using charters, adding scholarships, adding full cost of attendance (Alston money), coordinating NIL deals, etc... Do you think St. John's athletic department operates at a loss? Yet Rick Pitino had $4 million of NIL available to him last year - thanks to one rich dude. The whole point is moot. How programs are funded -- it's all changing.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2025 08:57PM by adamw.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 23, 2025 08:22AM
underskill
Can’t Cornell get Larry Tannenbaum to fund a men’s hockey collective and just try to buy a championship?
If the funding model is moving in the same direction as everything else in this benighted timeline, this may not be far from truth.
In a world where title hopes are the probability of having hatched a billionaire asshat overcompensating for his (it's always his) deficiencies IRL, we are in a strong position. Trust the Process!
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: BearLover (---.sub-174-229-91.myvzw.com)
Date: April 23, 2025 08:06PM
This but unironicallyunderskill
Can’t Cornell get Larry Tannenbaum to fund a men’s hockey collective and just try to buy a championship?
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: upprdeck (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 23, 2025 08:51PM
they would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: abmarks (---.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
Date: April 26, 2025 12:11AM
upprdeck
they would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?
Not necessarily. Was reading an article that talked about workarounds. If the Canadian kids get a different visa than the standard student visa was one way. Another was getting the nil for services rendered in Canada. And the third was an example where you sold your nil rights to a company-and since that company controlled how your value was exploited, and you no longer did, you were safe that way too.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 26, 2025 12:52PM
abmarks
upprdeck
they would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?
Not necessarily. Was reading an article that talked about workarounds. If the Canadian kids get a different visa than the standard student visa was one way. Another was getting the nil for services rendered in Canada. And the third was an example where you sold your nil rights to a company-and since that company controlled how your value was exploited, and you no longer did, you were safe that way too.
Yeah couldn't a student visa just be a work visa? What happens with grad students who get stipends to teach?
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: abmarks (---.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
Date: April 26, 2025 01:06PM
Trotsky
abmarks
upprdeck
they would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?
Not necessarily. Was reading an article that talked about workarounds. If the Canadian kids get a different visa than the standard student visa was one way. Another was getting the nil for services rendered in Canada. And the third was an example where you sold your nil rights to a company-and since that company controlled how your value was exploited, and you no longer did, you were safe that way too.
Yeah couldn't a student visa just be a work visa? What happens with grad students who get stipends to teach?
I'll have to look for the article I read and see if I can find a link.
Another avenue was the visa type that Melania got. The exceptional talent visa or whatever it's called. I'd assume that's the one that NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL etc would get if they aren't US citizens.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: underskill (---.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 26, 2025 02:29PM
The basic student visa doesn’t allow you to earn income. At least what I used under NAFTA.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: abmarks (---.mycingular.net)
Date: April 26, 2025 09:46PM
Not the article I was looking for, but if you really want to understand the issues, this was posted by the University of Oregon general counsel and is a legal analysis of the issues and slim options.
[generalcounsel.uoregon.edu]).
[generalcounsel.uoregon.edu]).
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: April 27, 2025 11:53AM
You are limited in what you can work with using the student visa stuff.. Some of it you can work within your field.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: abmarks (---.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
Date: April 30, 2025 09:03PM
Here's another twist on the CHL recruitment saga.
[www.grandforksherald.com]
Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,
[www.grandforksherald.com]
Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,
coaches are finding out that a lot of them will not be academically eligible to play college hockey.
It's not that the CHL players are bad students.
The primary issue is that many have not taken the required 16 NCAA-approved core classes, including 10 in the first seven semesters of high school.
When these players signed in the CHL, they thought they were giving up their college eligibility and didn't bother working toward NCAA academic requirements anymore.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: The Rancor (174.181.111.---)
Date: May 01, 2025 10:23AM
abmarks
Here's another twist on the CHL recruitment saga.
[www.grandforksherald.com]
Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,
coaches are finding out that a lot of them will not be academically eligible to play college hockey.
It's not that the CHL players are bad students.
The primary issue is that many have not taken the required 16 NCAA-approved core classes, including 10 in the first seven semesters of high school.
When these players signed in the CHL, they thought they were giving up their college eligibility and didn't bother working toward NCAA academic requirements anymore.
Exactly why much of the Major Junior brouhaha isn't going to matter (as much as some think)- many hockey players aren't interested in academics at all, even in a performative sense. At least for a few years. If the NCAA becomes the #1 league for NHL development, maybe that changes.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: stereax (---.static.firstlight.net)
Date: May 01, 2025 11:02AM
I think there's a bit of an understanding that the NCAA is a better league than the CHL, due to the age of competition and such, but yeah, if this is the case, you'll likely see the true influx start in 26, 27.The Rancor
abmarks
Here's another twist on the CHL recruitment saga.
[www.grandforksherald.com]
Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,
coaches are finding out that a lot of them will not be academically eligible to play college hockey.
It's not that the CHL players are bad students.
The primary issue is that many have not taken the required 16 NCAA-approved core classes, including 10 in the first seven semesters of high school.
When these players signed in the CHL, they thought they were giving up their college eligibility and didn't bother working toward NCAA academic requirements anymore.
Exactly why much of the Major Junior brouhaha isn't going to matter (as much as some think)- many hockey players aren't interested in academics at all, even in a performative sense. At least for a few years. If the NCAA becomes the #1 league for NHL development, maybe that changes.
Though I know a decent amount of CHLers finish their high school early, often at like, 15, 16 and start taking classes with local Canadian universities while in the CHL. (Parekh is the poster child; I know the Mercers did this too, but not as advanced.) That being said, enough of them barely get through high school that you have some teams brag about how most of their kids do.
But additionally, if you have to take specific classes, things can get dicey. We'll see.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: BearLover (---.sub-174-229-88.myvzw.com)
Date: May 01, 2025 12:58PM
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
[www.denvernil.com]
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 01, 2025 01:17PM
there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: BearLover (---.sub-174-229-88.myvzw.com)
Date: May 01, 2025 02:34PM
Oh I don’t believe that. But the relevant question here is whether NIL is affecting where a player chooses to play hockey. If Buium is getting an NIL sponsorship on his own rather than through Denver, then he could have done that at another school too. Same with CJ Kirst—he’s certainly earning NIL, but not through Cornell, so it isn’t correct to say NIL factored in to his decision to come to/stay at Cornell.ugarte
there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 01, 2025 03:23PM
citation needed. presumably the money (and i assume he was getting paid) is coming from someone in the denver fan base who wanted the guy to be at denver. there's more than one way to skin a cat and if hockey is outside the collective it's because the support is sufficiently endogenous to the broader program that it doesn't require institutional funneling. open your mind to the idea that you don't figure everything out the first time you think about it and every new fact won't have to be slotted into that conclusion.BearLover
Oh I don’t believe that. But the relevant question here is whether NIL is affecting where a player chooses to play hockey. If Buium is getting an NIL sponsorship on his own rather than through Denver, then he could have done that at another school too. Same with CJ Kirst—he’s certainly earning NIL, but not through Cornell, so it isn’t correct to say NIL factored in to his decision to come to/stay at Cornell.ugarte
there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 01, 2025 03:45PM
The CHL gets far more great players than the NC$$.
That used to be because of prejudice by the Canadian hockey community against US colleges: the Pussy Effect. Then it was the momentum of their historical reputation plus scoping the field to include players unable to count: the SEC Effect.
Now, well, we'll find out. I strongly suspect you can matriculate 4 years at some schools without ever seeing a textbook, so maybe we'll see the rockhead schools dominate.
That used to be because of prejudice by the Canadian hockey community against US colleges: the Pussy Effect. Then it was the momentum of their historical reputation plus scoping the field to include players unable to count: the SEC Effect.
Now, well, we'll find out. I strongly suspect you can matriculate 4 years at some schools without ever seeing a textbook, so maybe we'll see the rockhead schools dominate.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: BearLover (---.sub-174-229-88.myvzw.com)
Date: May 01, 2025 03:48PM
I’ll ignore your condescending last sentence and respond to the first part of your post: I highly doubt he is receiving substantial funding from “someone in the denver fan base who wanted the guy to be at denver.” Buium committed to Denver years ago before he was a bona fide star, and he chose Denver because his brother was going there. It is not a reasonable “presumption” that he came to Denver because of a rich donor any more than it is that CJ Kirst came to Cornell because of a rich donor. A top recruit committed to a top hockey program to play with his brother, he left after two seasons, their coach is on record saying Denver hockey doesn’t do NIL, and their collective doesn’t go towards hockey. He’s probably endorsed by Bauer or Chipotle or something but not because of anything to do with Denver.ugarte
citation needed. presumably the money (and i assume he was getting paid) is coming from someone in the denver fan base who wanted the guy to be at denver. there's more than one way to skin a cat and if hockey is outside the collective it's because the support is sufficiently endogenous to the broader program that it doesn't require institutional funneling. open your mind to the idea that you don't figure everything out the first time you think about it and every new fact won't have to be slotted into that conclusion.BearLover
Oh I don’t believe that. But the relevant question here is whether NIL is affecting where a player chooses to play hockey. If Buium is getting an NIL sponsorship on his own rather than through Denver, then he could have done that at another school too. Same with CJ Kirst—he’s certainly earning NIL, but not through Cornell, so it isn’t correct to say NIL factored in to his decision to come to/stay at Cornell.ugarte
there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2025 07:13PM by BearLover.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 01, 2025 10:58PM
BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
Hockey or not, this mechanism legitimizes side payments, which make it easy to get around the IL's prohibition of athletic scholarships.
Crimson & Gold Collective
Is the Crimson & Gold Collective affiliated with the University of Denver?
Following NCAA rules and regulations, the collective remains an independent third party that collaborates with DU student-athletes but is not affiliated with the university. Crimson & Gold Collective FAQ
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: toddlose (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2025 01:37PM
ugarte
there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
Depends. They have a Livvy Dunne lookalike?
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: adamw (---.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2025 01:48PM
Swampy
BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
Hockey or not, this mechanism legitimizes side payments, which make it easy to get around the IL's prohibition of athletic scholarships.
Crimson & Gold Collective
Is the Crimson & Gold Collective affiliated with the University of Denver?
Following NCAA rules and regulations, the collective remains an independent third party that collaborates with DU student-athletes but is not affiliated with the university. Crimson & Gold Collective FAQ
This part from Denver's web site was also conveniently left out ...
We are actively pursuing involvement from ALL athletic programs at the University of Denver.
if this was supposed to be some "gotcha" about Denver hockey not participating in NIL and rev share - then it's just comical. Again, instead of just replying with "Yeah, you're right" - we have to jump through hoops to find any nugget to justify a wrong opinion.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: BearLover (---.sub-174-229-79.myvzw.com)
Date: May 02, 2025 02:57PM
I just thought it was an interesting “nugget.” Wasn’t directed at you, and also don’t know what “wrong opinion” you’re referring to. It’s just another piece of evidence NIL plays little to no role at places like Denver. Maybe that will change, or maybe it’s not like that at other schools. Not interested in arguing about this anymore at all tbh, I literally just thought it was interesting.adamw
Swampy
BearLover
Denver’s NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.
[www.denvernil.com]
Hockey or not, this mechanism legitimizes side payments, which make it easy to get around the IL's prohibition of athletic scholarships.
Crimson & Gold Collective
Is the Crimson & Gold Collective affiliated with the University of Denver?
Following NCAA rules and regulations, the collective remains an independent third party that collaborates with DU student-athletes but is not affiliated with the university. Crimson & Gold Collective FAQ
This part from Denver's web site was also conveniently left out ...
We are actively pursuing involvement from ALL athletic programs at the University of Denver.
if this was supposed to be some "gotcha" about Denver hockey not participating in NIL and rev share - then it's just comical. Again, instead of just replying with "Yeah, you're right" - we have to jump through hoops to find any nugget to justify a wrong opinion.
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 02, 2025 06:16PM
that's the only one that mattered!BearLover
I’ll ignore your condescending last sentence
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Ben Robertson transfer
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 02, 2025 08:29PM
ugarte
that's the only one that mattered!BearLover
I’ll ignore your condescending last sentence
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