NCAAs quarterfinal Cornell vs. BU

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

BigDingus just posts the most negative take whenever possible whether or not he has any idea if it is true. He is deeply unserious, he has zero knowledge about how college hockey works. When I post negative crap at least it’s based in reality. Not worth engaging with him.

I still contend that you all are JHU**** from the old Laxpower Forum.

Scersk '97

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

BigDingus just posts the most negative take whenever possible whether or not he has any idea if it is true. He is deeply unserious, he has zero knowledge about how college hockey works. When I post negative crap at least it’s based in reality. Not worth engaging with him.

I still contend that you all are JHU**** from the old Laxpower Forum.

I have no idea who or what that is

BearLover

Scersk '97

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

BigDingus just posts the most negative take whenever possible whether or not he has any idea if it is true. He is deeply unserious, he has zero knowledge about how college hockey works. When I post negative crap at least it’s based in reality. Not worth engaging with him.

I still contend that you all are JHU**** from the old Laxpower Forum.

I have no idea who or what that is

IYKYK. They were hilarious in a way. A modern Davidsbundler.

BOSHockeyBlog:

The Toledo All-Regional Team:

G — Ian Shane, Cornell
D — Cole Hutson, BU
D — Gavin McCarthy, BU
F — Ryan Walsh, Cornell
F — Jack Hughes, BU

Cole Hutson was named most outstanding player of the regional.

Scersk '97

BearLover

Scersk '97

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

BigDingus just posts the most negative take whenever possible whether or not he has any idea if it is true. He is deeply unserious, he has zero knowledge about how college hockey works. When I post negative crap at least it’s based in reality. Not worth engaging with him.

I still contend that you all are JHU**** from the old Laxpower Forum.

I have no idea who or what that is

IYKYK. They were hilarious in a way. A modern Davidsbundler.

OK dude

Scersk '97

BearLover

Scersk '97

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

BigDingus just posts the most negative take whenever possible whether or not he has any idea if it is true. He is deeply unserious, he has zero knowledge about how college hockey works. When I post negative crap at least it’s based in reality. Not worth engaging with him.

I still contend that you all are JHU**** from the old Laxpower Forum.

I have no idea who or what that is

IYKYK. They were hilarious in a way. A modern Davidsbundler.

A few minutes ago Cornell lost in the regional for a third year in a row, capping a 1-10 record for Schafer in that round. Interesting post by you though

BearLover

Scersk '97

BearLover

Scersk '97

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

BigDingus just posts the most negative take whenever possible whether or not he has any idea if it is true. He is deeply unserious, he has zero knowledge about how college hockey works. When I post negative crap at least it’s based in reality. Not worth engaging with him.

I still contend that you all are JHU**** from the old Laxpower Forum.

I have no idea who or what that is

IYKYK. They were hilarious in a way. A modern Davidsbundler.

A few minutes ago Cornell lost in the regional for a third year in a row, capping a 1-10 record for Schafer in that round. Interesting post by you though

We all have our ways of coping. Read a book, man. Or check Wikipedia.

Oddly fitting, though, that Fan Favorite Jack O'Leary scored the last goal of Schafer's coaching career.

So proud of these guys!
Some soft calls against us hurt - the 5 minute penalty sucked but the PK did great!
Wish Coach put up a stink on the Kraft assault -
But all in all, holding BU they way they did was impressive and they really did an amazing showing!

fastforward
So proud of these guys!
Some soft calls against us hurt - the 5 minute penalty sucked but the PK did great!
Wish Coach put up a stink on the Kraft assault -
But all in all, holding BU they way they did was impressive and they really did an amazing showing!

100%. What a way to go out with a bang.

Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

We're past 500 tonight, aren't we?

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

stereax

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

We're past 500 tonight, aren't we?

Yes. And the MSU game count is 475 at the moment.

Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

It is but I'm not going to keep crying over it

Welcome to Leafs fandom

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

Yeah, of course it’s painful. But you know what’s more painful? Being a Brown or RPI fan who can only dream about being in our shoes. I don’t hate on you like some others, but you need to get some perspective.

scoop85

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

Yeah, of course it’s painful. But you know what’s more painful? Being a Brown or RPI fan who can only dream about being in our shoes. I don’t hate on you like some others, but you need to get some perspective.

Being a Brown or RPI fan would be way less painful lmao, I’d just stop watching and following a different sport. Not even in the same stratosphere of painful.

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

Team that is handicapped by Ivy league rules and unable to take advantage of transfers
Almost impossible to get real, high draft pick blue chip prospects as well
Still perennial ECAC contenders, usually top 20 pairwise, and often makes NCAA tournament, generally getting 100% effort from every player on the team

You're rooting for the underdog...

scoop85

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

Yeah, of course it’s painful. But you know what’s more painful? Being a Brown or RPI fan who can only dream about being in our shoes. I don’t hate on you like some others, but you need to get some perspective.

I never understood the argument that you’re not allowed to be upset because others have it so much worse. Would you say that to the team who only have about four years each?

David Harding

stereax

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

We're past 500 tonight, aren't we?

Yes. And the MSU game count is 475 at the moment.

Wow. Making records

ER

scoop85

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

Yeah, of course it’s painful. But you know what’s more painful? Being a Brown or RPI fan who can only dream about being in our shoes. I don’t hate on you like some others, but you need to get some perspective.

I never understood the argument that you’re not allowed to be upset because others have it so much worse. Would you say that to the team who only have about four years each?

of course you can be upset but you don't have to be so dreary and fatalist! if you think the future of the team is inevitably hopeless get a different hobby because this will bring you nothing but misery!

For me, obviously it’s better than being a Brown or Rpi fan. What’s frustrating is that to be in the regional final 11 times and only when once is just not fair. Dumb luck suggests more than that.

ER

scoop85

BearLover
Schafer 1-10 in regional finals including 8 in a row
Almost all in OT/by one goal
3 of last 5 losses were to BU

So painful to watch the same script play out every fucking year

Yeah, of course it’s painful. But you know what’s more painful? Being a Brown or RPI fan who can only dream about being in our shoes. I don’t hate on you like some others, but you need to get some perspective.

I never understood the argument that you’re not allowed to be upset because others have it so much worse. Would you say that to the team who only have about four years each?

I didn’t say he’s not allowed to be upset. Heck, the 2009 lax championship game continues to haunt me. I just thought it was worthwhile to point out how much joy we’ve gotten from this program and that these painful losses shouldn’t obscure the overall success and emotional highs we’ve gotten from our team. But if he or anyone wants to wallow in their misery, have at it.

No one is wallowing but that is a shitty record. BU wasn’t that much better than us. We should have had this one and I’m certain the players agree.

stereax

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

This. Gotta have faith, guys. We may never be a true "powerhouse" team, but years such as this one have proved that we can hang with them. Trust in the process and the recruitment. Things always work out.

I have to say, Cornell went toe to toe with that 13+ draft pick team from Boston today. BU definitely had one or two standout players that were clearly better than anybody in red today, but apart from their power play (which, to be clear, is a big deal) they didn't look to be that much more talented as a team.

At the end of the day this was the Cornell team we thought we'd get all year. I'm glad they got everybody healthy and figured it out in time for the playoffs, because they were a lot of fun to watch.

Looking forward, Jones has a reputation as an excellent recruiter - he certainly got a solid core of talent for both Clarkson and Cornell in his earlier positions (obviously we don't yet know what he'll bring to Cornell as a head coach). I'm not sure how many true blue-chip recruits he can pull in to an Ivy given the various restrictions, but if you think about it a solid all-around program like Cornell only really needs to find a couple to get over the hump.

arugula
For me, obviously it’s better than being a Brown or Rpi fan. What’s frustrating is that to be in the regional final 11 times and only when once is just not fair. Dumb luck suggests more than that.

There are almost no Brown or RPI fans because those teams suck every year, the only reason there are any RPI fans in the first place is because the program was good at one point. Nobody is going to root for a program that’s uncompetitive every season. Cornell hockey has a ton of fans because we’ve had lots of success and are competitive every year, that’s where the whole tradition comes from. So it makes no sense to compare us to a program almost nobody cares about, it’s apples to oranges. A apt comparison would be to somebody else who is always good but suffers excruciating endings to every season, UNH or somebody but they aren’t even good anymore. Cornell stands alone as consistently good but never happy in the end, that’s the source of the pain and it will never go away until we make a frozen four.

BearLover

arugula
For me, obviously it’s better than being a Brown or Rpi fan. What’s frustrating is that to be in the regional final 11 times and only when once is just not fair. Dumb luck suggests more than that.

There are almost no Brown or RPI fans because those teams suck every year, the only reason there are any RPI fans in the first place is because the program was good at one point. Nobody is going to root for a program that’s uncompetitive every season. Cornell hockey has a ton of fans because we’ve had lots of success and are competitive every year, that’s where the whole tradition comes from. So it makes no sense to compare us to a program almost nobody cares about, it’s apples to oranges. A apt comparison would be to somebody else who is always good but suffers excruciating endings to every season, UNH or somebody but they aren’t even good anymore. Cornell stands alone as consistently good but never happy in the end, that’s the source of the pain and it will never go away until we make a frozen four.

Actually, I take that back. I realized there is another program with a history extremely similar to that of Cornell hockey.

It’s Cornell lacrosse.

ER
No one is wallowing but that is a shitty record. BU wasn’t that much better than us. We should have had this one and I’m certain the players agree.

I agree that today we were every bit as good as BU and there wasn’t a moment watching the game that I didn’t think we could win that game. Of course it’s disappointing for all the players and the fans. I’m glad people care enough that it hurts.

All I want is one natty in my lifetime and I’ll be happy. We’ve built a great foundation and it’s truly remarkable how we make the quarterfinals every year but we need to get further at some point.

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

Tom Lento

stereax

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

This. Gotta have faith, guys. We may never be a true "powerhouse" team, but years such as this one have proved that we can hang with them. Trust in the process and the recruitment. Things always work out.

I have to say, Cornell went toe to toe with that 13+ draft pick team from Boston today. BU definitely had one or two standout players that were clearly better than anybody in red today, but apart from their power play (which, to be clear, is a big deal) they didn't look to be that much more talented as a team.

At the end of the day this was the Cornell team we thought we'd get all year. I'm glad they got everybody healthy and figured it out in time for the playoffs, because they were a lot of fun to watch.

Looking forward, Jones has a reputation as an excellent recruiter - he certainly got a solid core of talent for both Clarkson and Cornell in his earlier positions (obviously we don't yet know what he'll bring to Cornell as a head coach). I'm not sure how many true blue-chip recruits he can pull in to an Ivy given the various restrictions, but if you think about it a solid all-around program like Cornell only really needs to find a couple to get over the hump.

Nodding enthusiastically along. If you told me in December we'd lose to BU in overtime in the NCAA regionals after winning against MSU, I'd have told you you were crazy. The Big Red put up a great fight, despite a disparity in talent, and should be commended.

I can't wait to see the Jones Big Red next year. Hoping that at some point we can recruit one of those nice first/second round players who are impact NHLers, but we'll see.

BMac

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

But if we go back on our posts during the season (including mine) we were incredibly frustrated by this team until we got healthy and played like the team we expected all season long. I thought today was about as well as we’ve played all season against an excellent and skilled team, which of course leaves us all thinking “what if.”

stereax

Tom Lento

stereax

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

This. Gotta have faith, guys. We may never be a true "powerhouse" team, but years such as this one have proved that we can hang with them. Trust in the process and the recruitment. Things always work out.

I have to say, Cornell went toe to toe with that 13+ draft pick team from Boston today. BU definitely had one or two standout players that were clearly better than anybody in red today, but apart from their power play (which, to be clear, is a big deal) they didn't look to be that much more talented as a team.

At the end of the day this was the Cornell team we thought we'd get all year. I'm glad they got everybody healthy and figured it out in time for the playoffs, because they were a lot of fun to watch.

Looking forward, Jones has a reputation as an excellent recruiter - he certainly got a solid core of talent for both Clarkson and Cornell in his earlier positions (obviously we don't yet know what he'll bring to Cornell as a head coach). I'm not sure how many true blue-chip recruits he can pull in to an Ivy given the various restrictions, but if you think about it a solid all-around program like Cornell only really needs to find a couple to get over the hump.

Nodding enthusiastically along. If you told me in December we'd lose to BU in overtime in the NCAA regionals after winning against MSU, I'd have told you you were crazy. The Big Red put up a great fight, despite a disparity in talent, and should be commended.

I can't wait to see the Jones Big Red next year. Hoping that at some point we can recruit one of those nice first/second round players who are impact NHLers, but we'll see.

As college sports, even hockey, devolves into pay for play, it seems unlikely we’ll be able to bring in the super elite talent. But we’ll have to see how this shakes out over the next few years.

scoop85

BMac

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

But if we go back on our posts during the season (including mine) we were incredibly frustrated by this team until we got healthy and played like the team we expected all season long. I thought today was about as well as we’ve played all season against an excellent and skilled team, which of course leaves us all thinking “what if.”

Right, nobody is ashamed of anything, nobody doubts this was a great run, nobody doesn’t love Schafer. People who are upset and complaining are doing so because this was yet another team capable of going to the frozen four or farther but didn’t get there. That this was a great run nobody saw coming a month ago is beside the point. When you get to the regional final, however you get there, you have a special opportunity to do something amazing for your program and your school. And under Schafer we are now 1-10 in those opportunities.

Okay...

And so my watch has ended, really thought was gonna get to start another gamethread this season but alas
someone new will need to start next season with a thread for the Red/White game...

I didnt want to be on my phone during the game and will now have to go back and read from the start,
I assume all about the game, horrible ref calls, team spirit etc. has been discussed but for now:

The Lynah Faithful will one day be rewarded, and lets hang a ten spot on BU at the Garden in Nov.!

The King is dead, Long Live the King - see you all in Vegas for the Frozen Four next April!

The false bravado is hiding my tears, will never hear the band play Schafer song after a win again...

One of the annoying paradoxes about winning big hockey games seems to be that when players are able to take it for granted, to some extent, they can play freer. Feeling the weight of the opportunity is not always psychologically beneficial. Maybe that's part of our track record in the regional, maybe not.

BearLover

scoop85

BMac

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

But if we go back on our posts during the season (including mine) we were incredibly frustrated by this team until we got healthy and played like the team we expected all season long. I thought today was about as well as we’ve played all season against an excellent and skilled team, which of course leaves us all thinking “what if.”

Right, nobody is ashamed of anything, nobody doubts this was a great run, nobody doesn’t love Schafer. People who are upset and complaining are doing so because this was yet another team capable of going to the frozen four or farther but didn’t get there. That this was a great run nobody saw coming a month ago is beside the point. When you get to the regional final, however you get there, you have a special opportunity to do something amazing for your program and your school. And under Schafer we are now 1-10 in those opportunities.

Unless you have played Ivy League sports, coached or otherwise had a connection other than an armchair commentator, you should just shut up. What these young men and women and their coaches do is nothing short of amazing. The players hold down two full-time jobs -- Ivy league student and D1 athlete -- and they devote all their time and effort to achieving the best results they can. Because they WANT TO, not because anyone pays them [at least not yet]. And in many sports, not because athletic success might translate into a future paycheck. Ivy League coaches like Mike Schafer devote their working lives to coaching and teaching their athletes for the same reason.

Shit happens. Players get hurt, get sick, have a bad game. Get over it. We are talking about college sports not the NHL. How the hell do you know that this group of young men had more "potential?" Do you think they didn't do their best to win the games they lost? Do you think they are lazy, uncommitted, unfocussed? How about being happy about what they achieved? And how about acknowledging that whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

As fans it is one thing to post observations and opinions about how a game unfolds and perhaps even the choices it appears that a player makes on the ice. Whether the officials got it right, whether our team got the bounces. But to devolve to the point that you castigate a coach because he only took his team to the Frozen Four once in his career is just immature.

If it weren't for the insights and hilarious posts on eLynah that outnumbered your whining, I would just stop visiting this site.

dag14
...whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

I hope that team knows they've made all of us (most of us, at minimum) proud with just how hard they fought for it.

dag14

BearLover

scoop85

BMac

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

But if we go back on our posts during the season (including mine) we were incredibly frustrated by this team until we got healthy and played like the team we expected all season long. I thought today was about as well as we’ve played all season against an excellent and skilled team, which of course leaves us all thinking “what if.”

Right, nobody is ashamed of anything, nobody doubts this was a great run, nobody doesn’t love Schafer. People who are upset and complaining are doing so because this was yet another team capable of going to the frozen four or farther but didn’t get there. That this was a great run nobody saw coming a month ago is beside the point. When you get to the regional final, however you get there, you have a special opportunity to do something amazing for your program and your school. And under Schafer we are now 1-10 in those opportunities.

Unless you have played Ivy League sports, coached or otherwise had a connection other than an armchair commentator, you should just shut up. What these young men and women and their coaches do is nothing short of amazing. The players hold down two full-time jobs -- Ivy league student and D1 athlete -- and they devote all their time and effort to achieving the best results they can. Because they WANT TO, not because anyone pays them [at least not yet]. And in many sports, not because athletic success might translate into a future paycheck. Ivy League coaches like Mike Schafer devote their working lives to coaching and teaching their athletes for the same reason.

Shit happens. Players get hurt, get sick, have a bad game. Get over it. We are talking about college sports not the NHL. How the hell do you know that this group of young men had more "potential?" Do you think they didn't do their best to win the games they lost? Do you think they are lazy, uncommitted, unfocussed? How about being happy about what they achieved? And how about acknowledging that whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

As fans it is one thing to post observations and opinions about how a game unfolds and perhaps even the choices it appears that a player makes on the ice. Whether the officials got it right, whether our team got the bounces. But to devolve to the point that you castigate a coach because he only took his team to the Frozen Four once in his career is just immature.

If it weren't for the insights and hilarious posts on eLynah that outnumbered your whining, I would just stop visiting this site.

Sorry, what? Maybe you should re-read my post or something because you’re arguing a bunch of stuff that I agree with and that should be completely obvious.

stereax

dag14
...whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

I hope that team knows they've made all of us (most of us, at minimum) proud with just how hard they fought for it.

You are one of the posters that keeps me coming back.

dag14

stereax

dag14
...whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

I hope that team knows they've made all of us (most of us, at minimum) proud with just how hard they fought for it.

You are one of the posters that keeps me coming back.

That's flattery, hahaha. But I'm glad I have a positive impact like that :D

Well said:

The players hold down two full-time jobs -- Ivy league student and D1 athlete -- and they devote all their time and effort to achieving the best results they can. Because they WANT TO, not because anyone pays them [at least not yet]. And in many sports, not because athletic success might translate into a future paycheck. Ivy League coaches like Mike Schafer devote their working lives to coaching and teaching their athletes for the same reason.

BearLover

dag14

BearLover

scoop85

BMac

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Buddy -- you do more than your share of whining. In spite of what you think you are posting, that is what the rest of us read.

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

But if we go back on our posts during the season (including mine) we were incredibly frustrated by this team until we got healthy and played like the team we expected all season long. I thought today was about as well as we’ve played all season against an excellent and skilled team, which of course leaves us all thinking “what if.”

Right, nobody is ashamed of anything, nobody doubts this was a great run, nobody doesn’t love Schafer. People who are upset and complaining are doing so because this was yet another team capable of going to the frozen four or farther but didn’t get there. That this was a great run nobody saw coming a month ago is beside the point. When you get to the regional final, however you get there, you have a special opportunity to do something amazing for your program and your school. And under Schafer we are now 1-10 in those opportunities.

Unless you have played Ivy League sports, coached or otherwise had a connection other than an armchair commentator, you should just shut up. What these young men and women and their coaches do is nothing short of amazing. The players hold down two full-time jobs -- Ivy league student and D1 athlete -- and they devote all their time and effort to achieving the best results they can. Because they WANT TO, not because anyone pays them [at least not yet]. And in many sports, not because athletic success might translate into a future paycheck. Ivy League coaches like Mike Schafer devote their working lives to coaching and teaching their athletes for the same reason.

Shit happens. Players get hurt, get sick, have a bad game. Get over it. We are talking about college sports not the NHL. How the hell do you know that this group of young men had more "potential?" Do you think they didn't do their best to win the games they lost? Do you think they are lazy, uncommitted, unfocussed? How about being happy about what they achieved? And how about acknowledging that whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

As fans it is one thing to post observations and opinions about how a game unfolds and perhaps even the choices it appears that a player makes on the ice. Whether the officials got it right, whether our team got the bounces. But to devolve to the point that you castigate a coach because he only took his team to the Frozen Four once in his career is just immature.

If it weren't for the insights and hilarious posts on eLynah that outnumbered your whining, I would just stop visiting this site.

Sorry, what? Maybe you should re-read my post or something because you’re arguing a bunch of stuff that I agree with and that should be completely obvious.

I have read every entry you have posted, at least this year. You whine, complain, and criticize. That is what the rest of us take away from your posts.

stereax

I hope that team knows they've made all of us (most of us, at minimum) proud with just how hard they fought for it.

1000% True

dag14

BearLover

dag14

BearLover

scoop85

BMac

David Harding

BearLover

ugarte

David Harding
Someone asked about number of posts in a game thread. I scanned to the beginning of time and the previous record was 317 for a playoff game with Clarkson in March 11, 2006. That one was followed by a separate post-game thread of 143 posts, for a total of 460.

i wonder how much of it was dick swinging from guys fighting for the title of gloomiest poster

Much more likely it was dick swinging from the people happy when Cornell is losing 6-1 to Dartmouth and Union and blaming every thing on injuries, as they comprise 90% of this forum

[elf.elynah.com]

Buddy -- you do more than your share of whining. In spite of what you think you are posting, that is what the rest of us read.

Wow I forgot about RichS

I figured this would be the super long game where Molson scored his last goal, a 2OT (3OT?) beauty to put Clarkson away. Then the ecacs, followed by tragedy vs Wisconsin in Milwaukee. But it’s the game before!! With a Sawada GWG in 2OT.

Anyways…. Nothing to be ashamed of, what an unbelievable run. I really really liked this team. Incredible patience and grit, and Shane was a brick wall. Good health to coach and welcome to Casey.

But if we go back on our posts during the season (including mine) we were incredibly frustrated by this team until we got healthy and played like the team we expected all season long. I thought today was about as well as we’ve played all season against an excellent and skilled team, which of course leaves us all thinking “what if.”

Right, nobody is ashamed of anything, nobody doubts this was a great run, nobody doesn’t love Schafer. People who are upset and complaining are doing so because this was yet another team capable of going to the frozen four or farther but didn’t get there. That this was a great run nobody saw coming a month ago is beside the point. When you get to the regional final, however you get there, you have a special opportunity to do something amazing for your program and your school. And under Schafer we are now 1-10 in those opportunities.

Unless you have played Ivy League sports, coached or otherwise had a connection other than an armchair commentator, you should just shut up. What these young men and women and their coaches do is nothing short of amazing. The players hold down two full-time jobs -- Ivy league student and D1 athlete -- and they devote all their time and effort to achieving the best results they can. Because they WANT TO, not because anyone pays them [at least not yet]. And in many sports, not because athletic success might translate into a future paycheck. Ivy League coaches like Mike Schafer devote their working lives to coaching and teaching their athletes for the same reason.

Shit happens. Players get hurt, get sick, have a bad game. Get over it. We are talking about college sports not the NHL. How the hell do you know that this group of young men had more "potential?" Do you think they didn't do their best to win the games they lost? Do you think they are lazy, uncommitted, unfocussed? How about being happy about what they achieved? And how about acknowledging that whatever disappointment and pain you are feeling about the game we just lost is NOTHING compared to what the team is feeling right now.

As fans it is one thing to post observations and opinions about how a game unfolds and perhaps even the choices it appears that a player makes on the ice. Whether the officials got it right, whether our team got the bounces. But to devolve to the point that you castigate a coach because he only took his team to the Frozen Four once in his career is just immature.

If it weren't for the insights and hilarious posts on eLynah that outnumbered your whining, I would just stop visiting this site.

Sorry, what? Maybe you should re-read my post or something because you’re arguing a bunch of stuff that I agree with and that should be completely obvious.

I have read every entry you have posted, at least this year. You whine, complain, and criticize. That is what the rest of us take away from your posts.

I also celebrate, cheer, and praise. Depending on what I think of the team. I did plenty of celebrating the last few weeks, and plenty of complaining when the team was underachieving for most of the year. You’re lecturing me about the trials of being a D-1 athlete in the Ivy League in response to a totally innocuous post where I said nobody is ashamed of what they’ve accomplished. I was bemoaning our horrible luck in the regional final and you went off on me about how hard it is to be a Cornell athlete. You’re arguing against a strawman lol

Count me in the 1000% proud camp. It would have been so easy for this team to mail it in - they had every excuse in the world NOT to put in the extra effort it must have taken to gel late Feb & March with a completely different lineup than they had a month before. Their record was already a millstone around their necks - by the time everyone got healthy, it was clear we were going on the road for the ECAC playoffs, with a run to Lake Placid very unlikely. Just let the season run out and move on with life.

But they didn't take that path - they did not let the situation control their intensity. They buckled down and poured their hearts into every shift, steamrolling Colgate on the road, never giving up against Q, controlling Clarkson, taking down the #1 team in the polls, and taking arguably the most skilled team in the country to OT.

I could not be prouder - which is exactly why it hurts so much. If losing didn't hurt, then winning wouldn't be special, and that's not a life I choose to live. I want the highs, so I take the lows. You cannot have one without the other.

Let's Go Red.

Definitely agree - Linesman got in there and pushed Walsh's arm down and he was only holding 2 players off as best he could from what I saw.

I really enjoyed this season - TY coach! thank you Seniors! And thank you all the players!
And s special thanks to the many support staff that help make this program what it is!

I will look forward to next fall with all the patience I can muster.

Robb
Count me in the 1000% proud camp. It would have been so easy for this team to mail it in - they had every excuse in the world NOT to put in the extra effort it must have taken to gel late Feb & March with a completely different lineup than they had a month before. Their record was already a millstone around their necks - by the time everyone got healthy, it was clear we were going on the road for the ECAC playoffs, with a run to Lake Placid very unlikely. Just let the season run out and move on with life.

But they didn't take that path - they did not let the situation control their intensity. They buckled down and poured their hearts into every shift, steamrolling Colgate on the road, never giving up against Q, controlling Clarkson, taking down the #1 team in the polls, and taking arguably the most skilled team in the country to OT.

I could not be prouder - which is exactly why it hurts so much. If losing didn't hurt, then winning wouldn't be special, and that's not a life I choose to live. I want the highs, so I take the lows. You cannot have one without the other.

Let's Go Red.

This exactly. So much to be proud of. That's why it smarts.

LGR.

scoop85

stereax

Tom Lento

stereax

BearLover

Will

Big Dingus
Makes you wonder if this was our last true shot at it given the changing recruiting environment with the CHL.

Probably not, but we've already had trouble trying to keep up with perennial powerhouses of college hockey. It'll be more of the same as far as I'm concerned. Schafer frequently found a way to put together the right team in spite of a general lack of superstars. Hopefully Casey will be able to follow suit.

How about hopefully Casey will be able to attract some blue-chip recruits.

This. Gotta have faith, guys. We may never be a true "powerhouse" team, but years such as this one have proved that we can hang with them. Trust in the process and the recruitment. Things always work out.

I have to say, Cornell went toe to toe with that 13+ draft pick team from Boston today. BU definitely had one or two standout players that were clearly better than anybody in red today, but apart from their power play (which, to be clear, is a big deal) they didn't look to be that much more talented as a team.

At the end of the day this was the Cornell team we thought we'd get all year. I'm glad they got everybody healthy and figured it out in time for the playoffs, because they were a lot of fun to watch.

Looking forward, Jones has a reputation as an excellent recruiter - he certainly got a solid core of talent for both Clarkson and Cornell in his earlier positions (obviously we don't yet know what he'll bring to Cornell as a head coach). I'm not sure how many true blue-chip recruits he can pull in to an Ivy given the various restrictions, but if you think about it a solid all-around program like Cornell only really needs to find a couple to get over the hump.

Nodding enthusiastically along. If you told me in December we'd lose to BU in overtime in the NCAA regionals after winning against MSU, I'd have told you you were crazy. The Big Red put up a great fight, despite a disparity in talent, and should be commended.

I can't wait to see the Jones Big Red next year. Hoping that at some point we can recruit one of those nice first/second round players who are impact NHLers, but we'll see.

As college sports, even hockey, devolves into pay for play, it seems unlikely we’ll be able to bring in the super elite talent. But we’ll have to see how this shakes out over the next few years.

We have rarely brought in super elite talent. We rely on depth, longevity, chemistry, and THE SYSTEM. Should still be able to rely on those things. We recruit from a smaller pool but those players want us too. A Gabe Seger isn’t going to a Big10 school for example.

Robb
Count me in the 1000% proud camp. It would have been so easy for this team to mail it in - they had every excuse in the world NOT to put in the extra effort it must have taken to gel late Feb & March with a completely different lineup than they had a month before. Their record was already a millstone around their necks - by the time everyone got healthy, it was clear we were going on the road for the ECAC playoffs, with a run to Lake Placid very unlikely. Just let the season run out and move on with life.

But they didn't take that path - they did not let the situation control their intensity. They buckled down and poured their hearts into every shift, steamrolling Colgate on the road, never giving up against Q, controlling Clarkson, taking down the #1 team in the polls, and taking arguably the most skilled team in the country to OT.

I could not be prouder - which is exactly why it hurts so much. If losing didn't hurt, then winning wouldn't be special, and that's not a life I choose to live. I want the highs, so I take the lows. You cannot have one without the other.

Let's Go Red.

+1 1000%

Nice tweet from BU hockey congratulating Coach.

arugula
Nice tweet from BU hockey congratulating Coach.

I needed a minute to sit there and cry about that one.

Honestly, I don't give a Flying F--- that we haven't won a national championship or made it back to a Frozen Four in decades. I didn't even know what the Frozen Four was 5 years ago. I love watching Cornell hockey. Hard to think of a more fun place to be than Lynah Rink. The minute I hear "Good evening hockey fans" I get happy. Ditto for listening to Grady and Tim on ESPN.

I don't hope for a whole bunch of first-round hot-shot draft picks. I like that we don't accept 17 transfers or graduate students. I don't wish for Cornell to be able to bend their athletic academic standards one bit. I like our identity just as it is: true student-athletes at a top university that play like a TEAM. That means we win less, so what. It just that much more fun when we do beat those other types of teams.

The team's previous 3 games were as awesome as a fan could ask for. The team played their heart out against BU. What an incredible story this season has been. I'm grateful for it all.

LGR

After waking up from a nap this loss feels even more devastating, what a depressing way to end the careers of Schafer and ten seniors after all they’ve been through. 1-10 in the regional final under a HOF coach, it feels impossible. What a cursed program, can’t even get lucky one time in the final season of our great coach. This will hurt for the entire offseason and forever.

arugula
Nice tweet from BU hockey congratulating Coach.

Honestly, yawn. I have negative respect for them and want them to lose 10-0 next game. They’re up there with Quinnipiac at this point.

I will remember this season more than most, for everything, and especially for the playoff run. This year -- lows and highs -- was what Cornell hockey is all about, Charlie Brown.

Have a great offseason, everyone. I'll see you on the TBRW Awards thread after I grieve.

Trotsky
I will remember this season more than most, for everything, and especially for the playoff run. This year -- lows and highs -- was what Cornell hockey is all about, Charlie Brown.

Have a great offseason, everyone. I'll see you on the TBRW Awards thread after I grieve.

Don't think I could ask for a (much) better crash course in Big Red hockey. The playoff run was legendary - grinding our way through 3-1-2 in the ECACs and then knocking out a top 2 team in the Pairwise and going toe-to-toe with BU, so many of those games absolute nailbiters. I don't usually believe in magic, but man, I think the Hockey Gods gave us just a little bit of it.

I'm not going anywhere - idk if the forum goes completely dormant during the offseason or whether chats will still happen in other sports or in the general section, but checking ELynah has just become such a part of my daily routine, I can't walk away until training camp.

Man. What a ride.

stereax

Trotsky
I will remember this season more than most, for everything, and especially for the playoff run. This year -- lows and highs -- was what Cornell hockey is all about, Charlie Brown.

Have a great offseason, everyone. I'll see you on the TBRW Awards thread after I grieve.

Don't think I could ask for a (much) better crash course in Big Red hockey. The playoff run was legendary - grinding our way through 3-1-2 in the ECACs and then knocking out a top 2 team in the Pairwise and going toe-to-toe with BU, so many of those games absolute nailbiters. I don't usually believe in magic, but man, I think the Hockey Gods gave us just a little bit of it.

I'm not going anywhere - idk if the forum goes completely dormant during the offseason or whether chats will still happen in other sports or in the general section, but checking ELynah has just become such a part of my daily routine, I can't walk away until training camp.

Man. What a ride.

You picked a helluva inaugural season. Welcome to the cult, here's your beads and funny hat.

Trotsky

stereax

Trotsky
I will remember this season more than most, for everything, and especially for the playoff run. This year -- lows and highs -- was what Cornell hockey is all about, Charlie Brown.

Have a great offseason, everyone. I'll see you on the TBRW Awards thread after I grieve.

Don't think I could ask for a (much) better crash course in Big Red hockey. The playoff run was legendary - grinding our way through 3-1-2 in the ECACs and then knocking out a top 2 team in the Pairwise and going toe-to-toe with BU, so many of those games absolute nailbiters. I don't usually believe in magic, but man, I think the Hockey Gods gave us just a little bit of it.

I'm not going anywhere - idk if the forum goes completely dormant during the offseason or whether chats will still happen in other sports or in the general section, but checking ELynah has just become such a part of my daily routine, I can't walk away until training camp.

Man. What a ride.

You picked a helluva inaugural season. Welcome to the cult, here's your beads and funny hat.

You mean my friendship bracelet and rodeo hat? :D

My first season was Dick Bertrand's final, so there's some fun parallelism. It was also the start of the only three-year stretch in history where we missed the ECAC playoffs entirely, which is why I cannot be disappointed by this team, ever. Every playoff win a treasure.

I’m sitting in a bar outside of Toledo doing some…soaking, for the lack of a better word.

They have Hockey Night in Canada on, and during the 2nd intermission, they played highlights of our game, which honestly was surprising. No sound, so I have to guess, but given the pro prospects on BU, they mentioned that. Then there was a shot of Schafer behind the bench tonight, followed by old photos of the analysts from their playing days at Western Michigan, where Mike had his previous job. This on the CBC, going out to all of Canada. It was in my head how appropriate it would have been to end it all vs WMU, but storybooks aren’t always cooperative.

The number of lives this guy has touched amateur, pro, coaching, broadcasting, and just in life isn’t really spoken of, and thinking of it, it is astounding.

I welled on the outside once or twice during the postgame, but you can believe my soul was and still is, sobbing. I snapped a few photos as it’s clearly the end of an era. Right before walking off the ice, the referee handed him the game puck. (Or that’s what it looked like).

I know there will be more tribute threads here, but Christ, what a legend.

Trotsky
My first season was Dick Bertrand's final, so there's some fun parallelism. It was also the start of the only three-year stretch in history where we missed the ECAC playoffs entirely, which is why I cannot be disappointed by this team, ever. Every playoff win a treasure.

How about we don't talk about missing the ECAC playoffs... hahahahahah... even if it's mathematically impossible as far as I'm aware...

RichH
I’m sitting in a bar outside of Toledo doing some…soaking, for the lack of a better word.

It's really sinking in for me now, I think, lying in bed at night. I'm not crying... much. Just, man, I'm so fuckin' proud of this team, and it's not coming back nearly the same next year, and we couldn't muster up enough magic to beat Schafer's final demon (the regional finals), and just. Man. Man. What a run, what a legacy to leave. Even if the storybook has an imperfect ending. That's our team. And they fought to the bitter end.

Schafer as a coach spans literally half of modern Cornell hockey history, not even accounting for his time as player and assistant coach.

stereax

Trotsky
My first season was Dick Bertrand's final, so there's some fun parallelism. It was also the start of the only three-year stretch in history where we missed the ECAC playoffs entirely, which is why I cannot be disappointed by this team, ever. Every playoff win a treasure.

How about we don't talk about missing the ECAC playoffs... hahahahahah... even if it's mathematically impossible as far as I'm aware...

My freshman year, Cornell was one of two teams to have won their final game. (We lost the previous 11). People think Lynah looks empty now…

RichH

stereax

Trotsky
My first season was Dick Bertrand's final, so there's some fun parallelism. It was also the start of the only three-year stretch in history where we missed the ECAC playoffs entirely, which is why I cannot be disappointed by this team, ever. Every playoff win a treasure.

How about we don't talk about missing the ECAC playoffs... hahahahahah... even if it's mathematically impossible as far as I'm aware...

My freshman year, Cornell was one of two teams to have won their final game. (We lost the previous 11). People think Lynah looks empty now…

God bless 1993.

That year I was driving a noted Cornell VIP back from Appleton in the snow and as well peeled out of the parking lot he said, "You just missed the chance to run over Brian McCutcheon," and I said "Want me to go round again?"

Robb
Count me in the 1000% proud camp. It would have been so easy for this team to mail it in - they had every excuse in the world NOT to put in the extra effort it must have taken to gel late Feb & March with a completely different lineup than they had a month before. Their record was already a millstone around their necks - by the time everyone got healthy, it was clear we were going on the road for the ECAC playoffs, with a run to Lake Placid very unlikely. Just let the season run out and move on with life.

But they didn't take that path - they did not let the situation control their intensity. They buckled down and poured their hearts into every shift, steamrolling Colgate on the road, never giving up against Q, controlling Clarkson, taking down the #1 team in the polls, and taking arguably the most skilled team in the country to OT.

I could not be prouder - which is exactly why it hurts so much. If losing didn't hurt, then winning wouldn't be special, and that's not a life I choose to live. I want the highs, so I take the lows. You cannot have one without the other.

Let's Go Red.

In the press conference after the ECAC final Schafer talked about how the team decided to go training camp mode as they got close to full strength in February instead of doing the usual taper, and how hard that was for them in terms of both scheduling and physical workload. They went for it, they worked for it, and it paid off big.

They're conference champions and they played a tremendous NCAA tournament, and as the pain of this loss fades I'm sure earning that title will be incredibly satisfying after such a challenging and disappointing regular season.

I think people need to separate our incredible run the past few weeks from how devastating of a loss today was. Yes, I’m extremely proud of this team and of this program and of Schafer. Yes, this was an amazing few weeks. But we were in OT of the regional final. We are in this position precious few times, and today things didn’t go our way, yet again. 1-10 in regional finals is horrifically unlucky; even if we were 40% to win each game (which is low) we should have 4 or 5 frozen fours and probably a national championship under Schafer.

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen. I’ve had the whole year to celebrate Schafer, and days and weeks to celebrate our run. To lose in OT to BU, with the frozen four on the line, in the same game for the third year in a row, in our coach’s final season, is brutal. If your immediately reaction to our season ending is to write how grateful you are, I think that’s a coping mechanism. Which is fine! I have my own coping mechanism, which is my usual Charlie Brown act. Trosky has his, which is putting words in people’s mouths and calling them a POS. Everyone copes in their own way.

But just because I bemoan how horrifically bad this loss was doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate Schafer or this program. If you seriously think that, you’re absolutely nuts. Two things can be true: (1) Schafer had a great career, and (2) this was the single biggest opportunity, and single most devastating loss, in my 17 years as a die-hard Cornell hockey fan.

Snowball
Honestly, I don't give a Flying F--- that we haven't won a national championship or made it back to a Frozen Four in decades. I didn't even know what the Frozen Four was 5 years ago. I love watching Cornell hockey. Hard to think of a more fun place to be than Lynah Rink. The minute I hear "Good evening hockey fans" I get happy. Ditto for listening to Grady and Tim on ESPN.

I don't hope for a whole bunch of first-round hot-shot draft picks. I like that we don't accept 17 transfers or graduate students. I don't wish for Cornell to be able to bend their athletic academic standards one bit. I like our identity just as it is: true student-athletes at a top university that play like a TEAM. That means we win less, so what. It just that much more fun when we do beat those other types of teams.

The team's previous 3 games were as awesome as a fan could ask for. The team played their heart out against BU. What an incredible story this season has been. I'm grateful for it all.

LGR

I’m totally in agreement with everything you just said.

Cornell hockey, to me, is a way of life.
The guys truly put everything into it, morning, noon and night, and weekends too.

I respect their dedication and commitment.

I will be forever grateful and proud.

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

seconding crochet! I used to mess around with crochet while watching NHL games - a hobby I should get back to, tbh - and it's super rewarding to make little projects

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Bearlover, I raised sea levels .000001" to make you this. I hope you find no enjoyment in its beauty and may your glass always stay half empty.

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Can you guys all just fucking quit it? If he wants to describe it as brutal (which emotionally, is accurate) why is that so triggering? It’s a forum. People can express their opinions and feelings freely. No one’s feelings are more or less valid than the next. If you don’t like someone’s’ comment, just keep scrolling. But I’ve had about enough of the quibbling. Y’all need to grow up.

I think Bearlover is the worst poster ever to sign up for this forum - but unfortunately he is right.

The string of losses in this game is depressing and the fact that we could not just get the ONE bounce to get us over the hump is horrible. In 10 games, not once could anything go our way to go to the frozen four. Not luck, nothing. That’s horrible and it is the same thing every year.

It really is a mystery.

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Wow, some of this stuff on this forum seriously reads like it came from people who have never watched sports before. Yes, losing in the regional final in OT when your team hasn’t been to the frozen four since 2003 is 1000x more brutal than losing 8-3 in the opening round. Are you nuts?

Also, why do you even care what I think? I’m just expressing my own opinion, I’m not attacking anybody. Get a grip, dude, not everyone is a happy-go-lucky optimist who smiles serenely after Cornell loses in OT in the regional final to its arch rival to end the career of its coach. I post the most benign shit ever and without fail it triggers a massive freakout. This is the softest and most cringe sports forum in the history of the internet, you all need to grow up.

If nothing else this loss and what it meant for Cornell hockey should reinvigorate the "screw BU" cheer, may the pep band oblige.

Bahnstorm
If nothing else this loss and what it meant for Cornell hockey should reinvigorate the "screw BU" cheer, may the pep band oblige.

This. They are a Very Real Enemy again after the 2 QF knock outs and Red Hot Hockey; more relevant at the moment than Harvard and indeed anyone but Q and Clarkson.

I came to hockey sentience with the rivalry, and am so glad to see it alive and well.

So, for people who went, what did you think of Toledo? A Michigander I know said "we fought Ohio for it and they lost."

BearLover

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Wow, some of this stuff on this forum seriously reads like it came from people who have never watched sports before. Yes, losing in the regional final in OT when your team hasn’t been to the frozen four since 2003 is 1000x more brutal than losing 8-3 in the opening round. Are you nuts?

Also, why do you even care what I think? I’m just expressing my own opinion, I’m not attacking anybody. Get a grip, dude, not everyone is a happy-go-lucky optimist who smiles serenely after Cornell loses in OT in the regional final to its arch rival to end the career of its coach. I post the most benign shit ever and without fail it triggers a massive freakout. This is the softest and most cringe sports forum in the history of the internet, you all need to grow up.

I've mostly stayed out of this never-ending nonsense but I'm tired of it.

This isn't a sports forum in the sense of a bunch of anonymous semi-literate know it alls yelling at each other online to feel better about themselves. There are plenty of places online for that. I stopped spending any time there years ago.

Many of the long time posters here go back to the beginning of elf and the chdf before that and also know each other offline. For many, the common thread is Cornell hockey. In 2002, I went from dag14's class on the ag quad to Columbus to watch the season opener (with turkeybone and Josh 99). On the drive I passed Jim Hyla. Scersk97 was at the game. I remember jtw at placid in 2002 working out the pairwise in the days we'll before smart phones. I met ugarte at a lax playoff game with richh. Dbilmes is a fixture at games in CT. I watched plenty of games with ER when we were in school at the same time. The list goes on.

Everyone here loves Cornell and Cornell hockey. Everyone here understands the pain of being teased into believing and then getting punched in the gut. Nobody is looking for the tone of a typical sports message board. Nobody is looking for innuendo or suggestions about all the low hanging fruit one perceives being missed. Or constant needling and ad hominem assault. I don't care if people are positive or negative. Talk about the games. Be critical of decisions on the ice. Lament ivy rules and covid changes. But check the needless combativeness and childish name calling at the door. And remember that we're talking about students playing a game.

For me at least, Cornell hockey is a refuge from the world burning all around us. If I want to be surrounded by gratuitous combativeness, I've got plenty of options.

Chris '03
For me at least, Cornell hockey is a refuge from the world burning all around us. If I want to be surrounded by gratuitous combativeness, I've got plenty of options.

We said. We must all hang together or we shall surely hang separately.

+1 -- agree totally and I did not attend Cornell.

But eLynah has been a great part of the fan hockey experience for me.

Hearing a few tidbits out of Toledo....5 guys sick with the flu right now. Makes me admire the group even more. I few of our studs were less factors than I though would be the case, maybe they were ill.


Also, the guys were taking midterms on Friday!! Do you think the BU players were cranking out Macro Econ midterms or Business Law? Doubtful.


Love this group and am saddened the season over. Playing with house money is fun. I watched the YouTube highlights again, same result, but the NCAA version really shows how amazing Shane was! For being so pedistrian all season, he really got it going over the last month, totally flipped the script. IT would have been a 6-5 game with so many chances both ways. 1st minute of OT coulda/shoulda been our moment. One bounce.

On to Lax now! #LGR

profudge
+1 -- agree totally and I did not attend Cornell.

But eLynah has been a great part of the fan hockey experience for me.

We have been fortunate to have eLynah, and USCHO, and before them all Wayne Smith and Mike Machnik's hockey-l all the way back in the early 90s before some of you were born. Before that was Don Birkmayer's "The Hockey News," begun in 1954, before we all (I think?) were born.

We stand on the shoulders of giants.

BlueSky
Do you think the BU players were cranking out Macro Econ midterms or Business Law? Doubtful.

Hey! They're busy too!

Trotsky

profudge
+1 -- agree totally and I did not attend Cornell.

But eLynah has been a great part of the fan hockey experience for me.

We have been fortunate to have eLynah, and USCHO, and before them all Wayne Smith and Mike Machnik's hockey-l all the way back in the early 90s before some of you were born. Before that was Don Birkmayer's "The Hockey News," begun in 1954, before we all (I think?) were born.

We stand on the shoulders of giants.

i loved hockey-l as a lifeline in the 1990s as the internet was growing up. i enjoyed the chdf. but what i really loved was being a big ol' asshole on the CGKRT, the clearest inspiration for putting together CHDF and then Age replacing it with eLF.

Anyway just to come on and say: everyone KNOWS the pain you suffer, BearLover. everyone shares it! what we don't do is repeatedly dwell on it. not because we're pie-eyed optimists or dead-enders, but because it's tedious shit to repeat constantly!

i know you think you're providing some kind of counterbalance or something but you don't get to define how you're perceived. after an incredible opening tournament win your immediate PUBLIC reaction was basically "cool but lucky and we're dead now but you sheep won't acknowledge it!" a striking parallel to how you responded to winning the ECAC!

i don't care if you danced around your room,* i didn't get to share that. what you shared instead was an immediate shift, both times, to how depressing it is that we're probably going to lose the next game and there's no light at the end of the tunnel next year or after because the NCAA dynamited the way out.

i was one of your *defenders* regarding the potential coaching failures that led to the frustrating / depressing regular season and your hostility to Jones as a solution (because it's an interesting conversation to start) but goddamn, dude!

*i care a little. it would be nice to know!

Trotsky

Chris '03
For me at least, Cornell hockey is a refuge from the world burning all around us. If I want to be surrounded by gratuitous combativeness, I've got plenty of options.

We said. We must all hang together or we shall surely hang separately.

+1 to both of you.

Also, this.

Chris '03
This isn't a sports forum in the sense of a bunch of anonymous semi-literate know it alls yelling at each other online to feel better about themselves. There are plenty of places online for that. I stopped spending any time there years ago.

I have no real comments here, other than to nod my head in approval of the poignancy of your post, Chris. It's a family here. Not 4Chan.

Trotsky
We have been fortunate to have eLynah, and USCHO, and before them all Wayne Smith and Mike Machnik's hockey-l all the way back in the early 90s before some of you were born.

I came in on the very end of hockey-l, and boy was it glorious. Because it was full of posters who were knowledgeable, passionate, and, generally, cordial. And it was national in scope.

I hesitate a bit to say this, but I feel like the collegehockey subReddit is not bad. SubReddits can go bad, of course, but the majority of the posters there right now seem cordial. Ridiculous ad hominem attacks get downvoted, or they are encouraged for humorous purposes. Everything is pretty good-natured. Anyone who knows me can figure out who I am there in time.

I'd like this forum to get back there, because I like having multiple layers of college hockey fandom engagement. As a product of upstate New York, I believe in having many, many sometimes seemingly duplicative layers of civic society in order that we might all be able to coexist despite our wild individuality.

I'm a Mets fan. Cornell hockey can't hurt me because I'm already dead.

BearLover

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Wow, some of this stuff on this forum seriously reads like it came from people who have never watched sports before. Yes, losing in the regional final in OT when your team hasn’t been to the frozen four since 2003 is 1000x more brutal than losing 8-3 in the opening round. Are you nuts?

Also, why do you even care what I think? I’m just expressing my own opinion, I’m not attacking anybody. Get a grip, dude, not everyone is a happy-go-lucky optimist who smiles serenely after Cornell loses in OT in the regional final to its arch rival to end the career of its coach. I post the most benign shit ever and without fail it triggers a massive freakout. This is the softest and most cringe sports forum in the history of the internet, you all need to grow up.

After watching CU hockey for 62 years I have my own perspective.

And this is not brutal. Getting real close and not winning is sports. Yes doing it year after year is tough, but not brutal to me. I drove 7 hours to Toledo and then 7 hours back right after the game. Fortunately Marty was with me. If he hadn't texted me, I doubt I would have made the drive.

But you know what, I was happy that I did it. I was happy that I had the opportunity to do it.

You see for me winning is great, but you know what's better? HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO WIN! You don't get the opportunity to win a game like this unless you have already been winning.

Unfortunately for too many of those 62 years I never had this opportunity to watch a regional final. You see, there were many, too many years when that chance never existed. We were never there. And let me tell you after 2 National Championships and 4 ECAC Championships in a row, those years were bad.

For me winning is great, but you know what's better than winning, being with people that really care like you do. People that say thank you every time that I give them a newspaper, or people that proudly show me the newspaper that they brought with them. Turn around and look at the group of Cornell fans that are with you. They cheer on their own, cheer with the band, stand whenever they hear "Townies Up." That's what makes this not brutal.

I drove home happy about being there, not happy that they lost. Give me a break! No I was happy that I was able to be there with everyone else. I was happy that Marty texted me and that we drove 14 hours in one day to be able to be part of it.

Those types of memories will stay with me. I'll always be unhappy that we lost, but I'll be happier that they gave me the chance to be there and hope they could win.

If you want to understand this further, go watch or read what Coach said about Cornell in his post game, it's opportunity for him and it's students, the administration that gave him this chance, the band, the fans, but most of all the players that he's had a chance to coach, the true student athletes that he's been proud to associate with. And why when you put all this into perspective, why he's happy where his life's taken him, even though he's pissed about losing.

I'm sure he must have had chances to go to bigger programs, but he stayed at Cornell, because as he implied, there was something special that he felt.

Losing or not, he goes out a winner and I feel privileged to have been able to see some small part of that with him.

This wasn't brutal, this was a privilege that other schools haven't had.

Jim Hyla

BearLover

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Wow, some of this stuff on this forum seriously reads like it came from people who have never watched sports before. Yes, losing in the regional final in OT when your team hasn’t been to the frozen four since 2003 is 1000x more brutal than losing 8-3 in the opening round. Are you nuts?

Also, why do you even care what I think? I’m just expressing my own opinion, I’m not attacking anybody. Get a grip, dude, not everyone is a happy-go-lucky optimist who smiles serenely after Cornell loses in OT in the regional final to its arch rival to end the career of its coach. I post the most benign shit ever and without fail it triggers a massive freakout. This is the softest and most cringe sports forum in the history of the internet, you all need to grow up.

After watching CU hockey for 62 years I have my own perspective.

And this is not brutal. Getting real close and not winning is sports. Yes doing it year after year is tough, but not brutal to me. I drove 7 hours to Toledo and then 7 hours back right after the game. Fortunately Marty was with me. If he hadn't texted me, I doubt I would have made the drive.

But you know what, I was happy that I did it. I was happy that I had the opportunity to do it.

You see for me winning is great, but you know what's better? HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO WIN! You don't get the opportunity to win a game like this unless you have already been winning.

Unfortunately for too many of those 62 years I never had this opportunity to watch a regional final. You see, there were many, too many years when that chance never existed. We were never there. And let me tell you after 2 National Championships and 4 ECAC Championships in a row, those years were bad.

For me winning is great, but you know what's better than winning, being with people that really care like you do. People that say thank you every time that I give them a newspaper, or people that proudly show me the newspaper that they brought with them. Turn around and look at the group of Cornell fans that are with you. They cheer on their own, cheer with the band, stand whenever they hear "Townies Up." That's what makes this not brutal.

I drove home happy about being there, not happy that they lost. Give me a break! No I was happy that I was able to be there with everyone else. I was happy that Marty texted me and that we drove 14 hours in one day to be able to be part of it.

Those types of memories will stay with me. I'll always be unhappy that we lost, but I'll be happier that they gave me the chance to be there and hope they could win.

If you want to understand this further, go watch or read what Coach said about Cornell in his post game, it's opportunity for him and it's students, the administration that gave him this chance, the band, the fans, but most of all the players that he's had a chance to coach, the true student athletes that he's been proud to associate with. And why when you put all this into perspective, why he's happy where his life's taken him, even though he's pissed about losing.

I'm sure he must have had chances to go to bigger programs, but he stayed at Cornell, because as he implied, there was something special that he felt.

Losing or not, he goes out a winner and I feel privileged to have been able to see some small part of that with him.

This wasn't brutal, this was a privilege that other schools haven't had.

Amen

And thank you Jim for the papers, your loyalty, and being part of what makes Cornell hockey so great!

Dafatone
I'm a Mets fan. Cornell hockey can't hurt me because I'm already dead.

God I hate the Mets. Every time Trotsky brings them up it hurts me.

(Lifelong Mets fan here, in case it’s not obvious, and just a little too young to remember ‘86. Maybe we should start a support group over in JSID.)

Tom Lento

Dafatone
I'm a Mets fan. Cornell hockey can't hurt me because I'm already dead.

God I hate the Mets. Every time Trotsky brings them up it hurts me.

(Lifelong Mets fan here, in case it’s not obvious, and just a little too young to remember ‘86. Maybe we should start a support group over in JSID.)

I'm the same age, roughly. I get it.

Jim Hyla

BearLover

fastforward

BearLover

And so I don’t really care to celebrate our run and Schafer’s career immediately following one of the most brutal losses I have ever seen.
.

Dude, are you nuts??
BU killed Ohio State 8-3
We lost in OT
Brutal loss?
No way was this a brutal loss
I think you should get a hobby - knitting or crochet might be good therapy

Wow, some of this stuff on this forum seriously reads like it came from people who have never watched sports before. Yes, losing in the regional final in OT when your team hasn’t been to the frozen four since 2003 is 1000x more brutal than losing 8-3 in the opening round. Are you nuts?

Also, why do you even care what I think? I’m just expressing my own opinion, I’m not attacking anybody. Get a grip, dude, not everyone is a happy-go-lucky optimist who smiles serenely after Cornell loses in OT in the regional final to its arch rival to end the career of its coach. I post the most benign shit ever and without fail it triggers a massive freakout. This is the softest and most cringe sports forum in the history of the internet, you all need to grow up.

After watching CU hockey for 62 years I have my own perspective.

And this is not brutal. Getting real close and not winning is sports. Yes doing it year after year is tough, but not brutal to me. I drove 7 hours to Toledo and then 7 hours back right after the game. Fortunately Marty was with me. If he hadn't texted me, I doubt I would have made the drive.

But you know what, I was happy that I did it. I was happy that I had the opportunity to do it.

You see for me winning is great, but you know what's better? HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO WIN! You don't get the opportunity to win a game like this unless you have already been winning.

Unfortunately for too many of those 62 years I never had this opportunity to watch a regional final. You see, there were many, too many years when that chance never existed. We were never there. And let me tell you after 2 National Championships and 4 ECAC Championships in a row, those years were bad.

For me winning is great, but you know what's better than winning, being with people that really care like you do. People that say thank you every time that I give them a newspaper, or people that proudly show me the newspaper that they brought with them. Turn around and look at the group of Cornell fans that are with you. They cheer on their own, cheer with the band, stand whenever they hear "Townies Up." That's what makes this not brutal.

I drove home happy about being there, not happy that they lost. Give me a break! No I was happy that I was able to be there with everyone else. I was happy that Marty texted me and that we drove 14 hours in one day to be able to be part of it.

Those types of memories will stay with me. I'll always be unhappy that we lost, but I'll be happier that they gave me the chance to be there and hope they could win.

If you want to understand this further, go watch or read what Coach said about Cornell in his post game, it's opportunity for him and it's students, the administration that gave him this chance, the band, the fans, but most of all the players that he's had a chance to coach, the true student athletes that he's been proud to associate with. And why when you put all this into perspective, why he's happy where his life's taken him, even though he's pissed about losing.

I'm sure he must have had chances to go to bigger programs, but he stayed at Cornell, because as he implied, there was something special that he felt.

Losing or not, he goes out a winner and I feel privileged to have been able to see some small part of that with him.

This wasn't brutal, this was a privilege that other schools haven't had.

Well said, Dr. H. Well said.

Chris '03
I remember jtw at placid in 2002 working out the pairwise in the days we'll before smart phones.

Good thing we do, since I don't think I could get my laptop into the rink in the era of the clear bag policy.

jtwcornell91

Chris '03
I remember jtw at placid in 2002 working out the pairwise in the days we'll before smart phones.

Good thing we do, since I don't think I could get my laptop into the rink in the era of the clear bag policy.

Fwiw, I have gotten my laptop into Lynah with its clear bag policy. Even though I don't think they're that strict about the bags...