Hey Clownlover, the sky isn't falling: this year's team is last year's team.

Big Dingus
So when is the original poster going to admit they were wrong?

Call no man happy until he is dead, but only lucky. -- Solon

abmarks
Because numbers talk and clownlover shouldn't.

Clownlover has been all over the place; beside himself that the team is blowing their opportunity in what he declared to be a year where we're supposed to legitimately contend for the national title.

Let's get a little perspective here and look at what we did last year. Did we make a deep run? Yes. But arguably we overachieved last year after going on a quite unlikely tear.


11 games in we were 6W-3L-1T-1OTL.

In 2023-2024, The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 40 comparison wins and an rpi of .5239

Including all playoff games, we improbably went 16W-3L-5T the rest of the way.

Now let's compare to this season.

After our 11th game on 12/7, out record stood at
4W-3L-3T-1OTW.

In 2024-2025 The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 39 comparison wins and an rpi of .5231

I don't know what happened last year to get the team on track after the holiday break, but something tells me it was part coaching and quite a bit of run good to over achieve. Basing expectations for this year on where we finished last year and not looking at how we got there is a mistake. So far, this year's team and last year's team are effectively the same.

I vote this worst post of 2024

Trotsky

Big Dingus
So when is the original poster going to admit they were wrong?

Call no man happy until he is dead, but only lucky. -- Solon

Look now, pal.

This ain’t the same team, in fact not even close.


We now also risk losing a ton of players tot he transfer portal

Big Dingus
We now also risk losing a ton of players tot he transfer portal

for all the things that i think are fair to say ... i doubt this very much. over the years the one thing the team has always been is cohesive and we've seen very few transfers out. i don't see that changing.

That post made no sense. I figured it was botspeak

I would rather live in Ithaca and get a Cornell BS or BA than live in Hamden and get a whatever...

ugarte

Big Dingus
We now also risk losing a ton of players tot he transfer portal

for all the things that i think are fair to say ... i doubt this very much. over the years the one thing the team has always been is cohesive and we've seen very few transfers out. i don't see that changing.

We have usually seen the team win though… this year is the worst year in 10 years.

We are at risk

I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

chimpfood
Would you mind sharing the link to the metrics that you used? Are they on CHN? I wasn’t able to find them there.

Agreed on major. Not only is he small but he plays really timid too. Small guys can definitely work in college (see oleary, Kraft just on this years team) but if your scared to play physical you’re never gonna get much done. I’m sure he and the coaches notice and are working on it but I haven’t been able to see progress as I can’t watch any of these away series.

Totally agree here.
I got grief for stating that Kraft was due for his goal last night from a few on campus. Yeah, many of them are due, no doubt about it. Kraft is a battler and works his tail off, just like O’Leary.

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

BearLover

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

Stop with this nonsense. No one here thinks things are "fine and dandy." But no one else is this obsessive about finding out who the culprit is that's the cause of this so we can pin blame for it.

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

Stop with this nonsense. No one here thinks things are "fine and dandy." But no one else is this obsessive about finding out who the culprit is that's the cause of this so we can pin blame for it.

And no one else here has the same degree of sick entitlement that demands answers to questions that are - should be - and in any true team will be none of our business.

marty

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

Stop with this nonsense. No one here thinks things are "fine and dandy." But no one else is this obsessive about finding out who the culprit is that's the cause of this so we can pin blame for it.

And no one else here has the same degree of sick entitlement that demands answers to questions that are - should be - and in any true team will be none of our business.

i can't believe that you are genuinely this incurious. it's sports not national defense. this kind of pious crap is why my first dedicated online posting was trolling the Clarkson Roundtable.

marty

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

Stop with this nonsense. No one here thinks things are "fine and dandy." But no one else is this obsessive about finding out who the culprit is that's the cause of this so we can pin blame for it.

And no one else here has the same degree of sick entitlement that demands answers to questions that are - should be - and in any true team will be none of our business.

I’m not sure if my posting has driven you insane but you seem totally oblivious to the fact that I am a FAN posting on a SPORTS FORUM. I’m not knocking on the door of the Cornell Daily Sun or Cornell Sports Media or CHN demanding they answer my questions. Indeed, I have demanded absolutely nothing. I listed a number of questions to which I’d love to know the answer and bemoaned the fact they won’t be answered. (I later clarified that my bemoaning was from a selfish perspective as a fan of the team and was not making any normative claim as to how things ought to be.) We’re in the midst of the most disappointing season in 30+ years and it’s so objectionable to you that I’m curious as to what is going on? It’s so objectionable to question any decision by the coaching staff or make inferences about who is or isn’t injured? (You went off on me yesterday for suggesting Shane is healthy because he’s started every game.) Have you never been on a sports discussion forum before?

BearLover

marty

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

Stop with this nonsense. No one here thinks things are "fine and dandy." But no one else is this obsessive about finding out who the culprit is that's the cause of this so we can pin blame for it.

And no one else here has the same degree of sick entitlement that demands answers to questions that are - should be - and in any true team will be none of our business.

I’m not sure if my posting has driven you insane but you seem totally oblivious to the fact that I am a FAN posting on a SPORTS FORUM. I’m not knocking on the door of the Cornell Daily Sun or Cornell Sports Media or CHN demanding they answer my questions. Indeed, I have demanded absolutely nothing. I listed a number of questions to which I’d love to know the answer and bemoaned the fact they won’t be answered. (I later clarified that my bemoaning was from a selfish perspective as a fan of the team and was not making any normative claim as to how things ought to be.) We’re in the midst of the most disappointing season in 30+ years and it’s so objectionable to you that I’m curious as to what is going on? It’s so objectionable to question any decision by the coaching staff or make inferences about who is or isn’t injured? (You went off on me yesterday for suggesting Shane is healthy because he’s started every game.) Have you never been on a sports discussion forum before?

If you had simply listed a number of questions I wouldn't be sick of your posts. You listed question after question ad nauseum. It didn't make me insane just sick of reading these unending queries which won't be answered by the coach or anyone else on the inside.

And the fact that I might have missed that you realize that some of this is selfish gets lost because I don't carefully read all of your posts. It gets tiresome.

We're sad that the season hasn't gone the way most of us expected. It's just that your way of expressing your disappointment is not helping me get through this season. It only gives me another reason to feel bad.

.

.

Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

2014-15 was 20 years ago?

I’m not worried about the transfer portal or CHL stuff because we have never had trouble with losing people to the portal and we’re always great at bringing in Canadians and we are bringing in a new Canadian coach. If anything the CHL change should help us, getting talented, old Canadian players that age out.

chimpfood
I’m not worried about the transfer portal or CHL stuff because we have never had trouble with losing people to the portal and we’re always great at bringing in Canadians and we are bringing in a new Canadian coach. If anything the CHL change should help us, getting talented, old Canadian players that age out.

I’m not sure we’re going to get those aged out players. Those players likely don’t plan on playing for a U.S. university (otherwise they wouldn’t have committed earlier), and so I’m unsure they would have the requisite academics for a place like Cornell? Just looking at recruiting in the last month or two, Quinnipiac and a lot of lesser hockey schools seem to have recruited CHL kids who are aging out, while Cornell and a few other Ivies appear to be targeting younger kids who are starting or will soon start their CHL careers. With that said, it’s true our proximity to Canada plus our Canadian coach should help.

I agree we probably won’t lose any/many players to the portal. Though, this next offseason is uncharted terrain. We have never had a coaching change during the transfer portal. Also, we will probably be coming off of a hugely disappointing season.

I think the coach-in-waiting plan just wasn’t a smart idea. Notre Dame is trying the same thing and it hasn’t worked for them either. I’m actually excited to see what Casey can do next year as the full time head coach. Whatever’s going on this season just isn’t working out.

People on here love to heckle me for suggesting a problem with the coaching, but at this point things have gotten so bad that I believe the burden is on the coaching-defenders to justify that the coaching is fine and dandy. Once again, when the whole team regresses, it’s hard to pin that on the players.

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Repeating ... Asked and answered.

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Injuries + youth + weak freshman class + whatever is going on with Ian Shane (which, to be fair to him, might be a knock on effect of the injuries + youth bit in terms of the team in front of him) explains things more than adequately. In fact, I could make a reasonable argument that the season to date has been disappointing but well within the range of expectation given that:

1. The team lost one player, but he was BY FAR the best playmaker they had
2. The team lost a lot of other game and practice time to injuries and has been juggling lines throughout
3. The team is still really young, anchored by 10 sophomores of the "4 year college hockey player hoping to get good enough to land in the pros" type rather than the "2 years to prep for a jump to a 2-way contract and a chance at the NHL" type

That doesn't mean the coaching staff isn't making any mistakes. And yes, maybe the coach in waiting thing is just a bad setup and that's causing some of the inconsistency. That said, I don't really buy the argument that coaching issues are the cause of the problems. From what I've seen a lack of consistency and special teams problems are the biggest issues with this year's team, and those are precisely the things that are hardest for a coach to address when you have a revolving door of injuries.

The one exception I'd note is the PP unit's continued impotency despite having all more consistency there. This is, I think, a bit of a weakness in the coaching staff, but it's not a new one. As far as I can tell Schafer hasn't meaningfully changed his PP sets since the Doug Murray era, and since then Cornell's PP has ranged from mediocre to excellent with more of the former than the latter. When they've got the right personnel, they do well. When they don't, yuck. They don't have the right personnel this year, and Seger was likely the reason we weren't tearing our hair out last year. That said, I'd expect the PP to regress to the mean and be mediocre the rest of the season (which, of course, would be a tremendous improvement). I also don't think it's an accident that folks around here are talking about how much better it's looked since the break, when the team had more focused practice time to work out some of the kinks. Improving special teams takes a lot of reps, and I'm betting with all the injuries they weren't able to focus on them as much as they needed to because they had to get guys slotted into new even strength roles every week.

Unless the injury situation stabilizes I wouldn't expect this team's final record to live up to anything like its pre-season potential - which, to be clear, I would have put at "league title + at large contender with a strong chance of a favorable first round NCAA matchup" rather than "1 seed in the NCAAs competing for national title" - regardless of whatever the current coaching setup is doing. Assuming the injury run tapers off I expect things will look a little better as time goes by but it'll be 1-2 weeks after Penney and company return before they look like what we thought they'd be.

ugarte

marty

Al DeFlorio

BearLover

Trotsky
I hereby solemnly swear to stop yanking the Doomers' chains. I've made my opinion of them clear. It hasn't changed, but it is Streisand Effect to engage with them. I will concentrate on the good things, keep things in perspective, and try to lead by example.

It’s weird to label people doomers when the season is objectively awful. Given our results this season, it seems the people out of whack are the optimists who think things are fine and dandy as we meander through the most disappointing season in 30+ years.

Stop with this nonsense. No one here thinks things are "fine and dandy." But no one else is this obsessive about finding out who the culprit is that's the cause of this so we can pin blame for it.

And no one else here has the same degree of sick entitlement that demands answers to questions that are - should be - and in any true team will be none of our business.

i can't believe that you are genuinely this incurious. it's sports not national defense. this kind of pious crap is why my first dedicated online posting was trolling the Clarkson Roundtable.

but but but.... our red are AWESOME!

(Did I do that right? It's been a very long time....)

adamw

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Repeating ... Asked and answered.

Alright, since you continue to refuse to restate whatever is your conclusion, and also refuse to provide a link or direction to your conclusion, I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist.

BearLover

adamw

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Repeating ... Asked and answered.

Alright, since you continue to refuse to restate whatever is your conclusion, and also refuse to provide a link or direction to your conclusion, I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist.

please man, stop. you are pretty clear about your reasoning - which is basically a blunt ockham's razor - and adam has provided his reasoning for why that's not the "obvious" answer to what you see, based on historic evidence from the program, multiple times. you are asking him to offer proof that your calculation of angels on the head of a pin is off. if i were to offer an alternate conclusion - not that i have any actual conclusion - it would be "shit happens."

ugarte

BearLover

adamw

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Repeating ... Asked and answered.

Alright, since you continue to refuse to restate whatever is your conclusion, and also refuse to provide a link or direction to your conclusion, I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist.

please man, stop. you are pretty clear about your reasoning - which is basically a blunt ockham's razor - and adam has provided his reasoning for why that's not the "obvious" answer to what you see, based on historic evidence from the program, multiple times. you are asking him to offer proof that your calculation of angels on the head of a pin is off. if i were to offer an alternate conclusion - not that i have any actual conclusion - it would be "shit happens."

No, I think you have this backwards tbh.
>I suggest there’s coaching issue
>adamw says no, you’d have to be stupid to think that
>I ask adamw, “OK, do you have an alternative viewpoint (as in, not having to do with the coaching) as to why the entire team has regressed this season?”
>adamw claims he’s answered this question already

On the other hand, Tom Lento’s nuanced post is great, FWIW.

BearLover

ugarte

BearLover

adamw

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Repeating ... Asked and answered.

Alright, since you continue to refuse to restate whatever is your conclusion, and also refuse to provide a link or direction to your conclusion, I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist.

please man, stop. you are pretty clear about your reasoning - which is basically a blunt ockham's razor - and adam has provided his reasoning for why that's not the "obvious" answer to what you see, based on historic evidence from the program, multiple times. you are asking him to offer proof that your calculation of angels on the head of a pin is off. if i were to offer an alternate conclusion - not that i have any actual conclusion - it would be "shit happens."

No, I think you have this backwards tbh.
>I suggest there’s coaching issue
>adamw says no, you’d have to be stupid to think that
>I ask adamw, “OK, do you have an alternative viewpoint (as in, not having to do with the coaching) as to why the entire team has regressed this season?”
>adamw claims he’s answered this question already

On the other hand, Tom Lento’s nuanced post is great, FWIW.

i don't want to speak for him, yet i will. he doesn't have an alternate viewpoint, if he did it would pretty much be "shit happens," but his belief is that historical evidence suggests that "coaching bad" is a crude conclusion from a small sample.

Tom Lento

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Injuries + youth + weak freshman class + whatever is going on with Ian Shane (which, to be fair to him, might be a knock on effect of the injuries + youth bit in terms of the team in front of him) explains things more than adequately. In fact, I could make a reasonable argument that the season to date has been disappointing but well within the range of expectation given that:

1. The team lost one player, but he was BY FAR the best playmaker they had
2. The team lost a lot of other game and practice time to injuries and has been juggling lines throughout
3. The team is still really young, anchored by 10 sophomores of the "4 year college hockey player hoping to get good enough to land in the pros" type rather than the "2 years to prep for a jump to a 2-way contract and a chance at the NHL" type

That doesn't mean the coaching staff isn't making any mistakes. And yes, maybe the coach in waiting thing is just a bad setup and that's causing some of the inconsistency. That said, I don't really buy the argument that coaching issues are the cause of the problems. From what I've seen a lack of consistency and special teams problems are the biggest issues with this year's team, and those are precisely the things that are hardest for a coach to address when you have a revolving door of injuries.

The one exception I'd note is the PP unit's continued impotency despite having all more consistency there. This is, I think, a bit of a weakness in the coaching staff, but it's not a new one. As far as I can tell Schafer hasn't meaningfully changed his PP sets since the Doug Murray era, and since then Cornell's PP has ranged from mediocre to excellent with more of the former than the latter. When they've got the right personnel, they do well. When they don't, yuck. They don't have the right personnel this year, and Seger was likely the reason we weren't tearing our hair out last year. That said, I'd expect the PP to regress to the mean and be mediocre the rest of the season (which, of course, would be a tremendous improvement). I also don't think it's an accident that folks around here are talking about how much better it's looked since the break, when the team had more focused practice time to work out some of the kinks. Improving special teams takes a lot of reps, and I'm betting with all the injuries they weren't able to focus on them as much as they needed to because they had to get guys slotted into new even strength roles every week.

Unless the injury situation stabilizes I wouldn't expect this team's final record to live up to anything like its pre-season potential - which, to be clear, I would have put at "league title + at large contender with a strong chance of a favorable first round NCAA matchup" rather than "1 seed in the NCAAs competing for national title" - regardless of whatever the current coaching setup is doing. Assuming the injury run tapers off I expect things will look a little better as time goes by but it'll be 1-2 weeks after Penney and company return before they look like what we thought they'd be.

This sums it up well. I'll add in my usual drumbeat of a younger offensively skilled team struggling against lower skilled physical opponents who can clog the net front on both ends. SHU's 2nd and 3rd goals were rebounds that we could maybe have cleaned up with a better presence down low.

You might not be worried but you should be.

Big schools now have massive recruiting power and with the “Ivy” degree not as useful anymore, it really makes sense to go to some of these bigger state schools with more money, more parties and the same job placements.

Recruiting will completely change

One thing the PP really misses is vision and playmaking ability from the forwards. That more than anything was where Seger excelled. Cornell tried to use Major in that role but it hasn’t worked out. He’s only a freshman, he may well be great in future years. But the fact Cornell needed to slot a freshman in that role from day 1 was a sign of weakness. Cornell has Robertson and Fegaras up top, but who among the forwards is setting anybody up? Bancroft and Walsh are scorers, Castagna has amazing hands but passing doesn’t appear to be his strength. DeSantis has been weirdly ineffective since a great freshman season. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that our PPs start with the D playing catch at the point for 20 seconds before the puck is quickly turned over down low.

BearLover

No, I think you have this backwards tbh.
>I suggest there’s coaching issue
>adamw says no, you’d have to be stupid to think that
>I ask adamw, “OK, do you have an alternative viewpoint (as in, not having to do with the coaching) as to why the entire team has regressed this season?”
>adamw claims he’s answered this question already

On the other hand, Tom Lento’s nuanced post is great, FWIW.

Alright! It didn't come directly from Adamw, but he's certainly hinted at some things like those Tom Lento mentions. But even if Adam hadn't done so, maybe now the sniping between BL & Adamw can end.

BearLover

ugarte

BearLover

adamw

BearLover

adamw

Big Dingus
Why are people sick of Bearlover? Because he tells the truth. This is the first time in 20 years we have not been good, why shouldn’t we be upset? We care about the team and that’s a good thing. You want us to not care and fade into irrelevance like Brown or Princeton?

We are at a crossroads where we are in serious trouble with the new CHL rules, a new coach, and a Wild West transfer portal to deeply fall as a program. Just look at other ECAC programs and how quickly they fell. This is serious and someone needs to recognize it.

Hell I’ve had a feud with him for two years and the fact is he is right. Something is going on and it would be nice to know why instead of watch the team consistently underperform compared to last year which was basically the same team.

I'll try to be say it succinctly - again - without attacking ... The issue is not saying that this team is having issues, or underachieving - I've said it myself, all the time. The issue is trying to ascribe it to "coaching" -- using "reasons" that are specious, based on nothing, and not true on any base level. And then being absolutely so sure of himself about it.

Yawn. First of all, I’m still waiting on an alternative viewpoint as to why the entire team has regressed. Secondly, I couch all of my thoughts with “I think” or “this suggests to me” or similar. So, obviously I am not certain of anything I’m saying and I am careful to convey that.

Repeating ... Asked and answered.

Alright, since you continue to refuse to restate whatever is your conclusion, and also refuse to provide a link or direction to your conclusion, I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist.

please man, stop. you are pretty clear about your reasoning - which is basically a blunt ockham's razor - and adam has provided his reasoning for why that's not the "obvious" answer to what you see, based on historic evidence from the program, multiple times. you are asking him to offer proof that your calculation of angels on the head of a pin is off. if i were to offer an alternate conclusion - not that i have any actual conclusion - it would be "shit happens."

No, I think you have this backwards tbh.
>I suggest there’s coaching issue
>adamw says no, you’d have to be stupid to think that
>I ask adamw, “OK, do you have an alternative viewpoint (as in, not having to do with the coaching) as to why the entire team has regressed this season?”
>adamw claims he’s answered this question already

On the other hand, Tom Lento’s nuanced post is great, FWIW.

have literally said all the same things - just more briefly. you don't see it, because you don't want to see it.

I think the biggest reason(s) we are where we are today are:

1. Defensive performance, starting with goaltending. In many games, this has resulted in us playing from behind, which I am sure impacts the approach to the game, scoring, trying to do more resulting in being out of sync, etc.

2. Absence of Gabe Seeger, which has impacted the team's offensive production. Especially his 30 assists. Not to mention his wine % on face-offs, and I believe he also contributed on the PK.

3. Bad puck luck, some of which might be attributed to both of the above.

Injuries happen every year. Hard to say to what extent people have been playing injured and thus haven't been able to play at 100%, especially when it comes to forechecking and back checking.

Similarly, while I am sure that two new coaches could have an impact on the team's performance, once again, it is really hard to say to what extent this has actually impacted W-L-T.

I am curious what the psyche is of the team. They have to be disappointed (to put it lightly.) They are competitive athletes and want to win as much as anyone. I wonder if a sports psychologist is working with the team given where they are right now.

I get it; Seger is gone. But no matter how many times it’s brought up, he’s not coming back.
We need to have forward vision, and stop looking over our shoulders. They need to make the best with whoever is healthy and hope for the best.
I’m sure it’s frustrating for the players but they know injuries happen

The lack of scoring during 5x3's is very notable. Something is really wrong there.

abmarks
Because numbers talk and clownlover shouldn't.

Clownlover has been all over the place; beside himself that the team is blowing their opportunity in what he declared to be a year where we're supposed to legitimately contend for the national title.

Let's get a little perspective here and look at what we did last year. Did we make a deep run? Yes. But arguably we overachieved last year after going on a quite unlikely tear.


11 games in we were 6W-3L-1T-1OTL.

In 2023-2024, The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 40 comparison wins and an rpi of .5239

Including all playoff games, we improbably went 16W-3L-5T the rest of the way.

Now let's compare to this season.

After our 11th game on 12/7, out record stood at
4W-3L-3T-1OTW.

In 2024-2025 The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 39 comparison wins and an rpi of .5231

I don't know what happened last year to get the team on track after the holiday break, but something tells me it was part coaching and quite a bit of run good to over achieve. Basing expectations for this year on where we finished last year and not looking at how we got there is a mistake. So far, this year's team and last year's team are effectively the same.

So how’d that turn out?

We won't know until March.

BearLover

abmarks
Because numbers talk and clownlover shouldn't.

Clownlover has been all over the place; beside himself that the team is blowing their opportunity in what he declared to be a year where we're supposed to legitimately contend for the national title.

Let's get a little perspective here and look at what we did last year. Did we make a deep run? Yes. But arguably we overachieved last year after going on a quite unlikely tear.


11 games in we were 6W-3L-1T-1OTL.

In 2023-2024, The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 40 comparison wins and an rpi of .5239

Including all playoff games, we improbably went 16W-3L-5T the rest of the way.

Now let's compare to this season.

After our 11th game on 12/7, out record stood at
4W-3L-3T-1OTW.

In 2024-2025 The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 39 comparison wins and an rpi of .5231

I don't know what happened last year to get the team on track after the holiday break, but something tells me it was part coaching and quite a bit of run good to over achieve. Basing expectations for this year on where we finished last year and not looking at how we got there is a mistake. So far, this year's team and last year's team are effectively the same.

So how’d that turn out?

Clownlover is still managing to miss my point ffs.

By any measure, we overachieved in the second half last year. And even with that hot run needed to win the ecac tourney to get into the NCAA tournament. If the second half was replayed 100 times, with everything the same, I doubt we even sniff the ncaas 10 percent of the time. We ran hot.

Overachieving last year raised expectations too high amongst some observers: most notably Clownlover.

While we're underperforming against even reasonable expectations so far this year, the injury situation has got to be the undisputed primary cause now that we've been treated to multiple viewings of the Rayhill show.

abmarks

BearLover

abmarks
Because numbers talk and clownlover shouldn't.

Clownlover has been all over the place; beside himself that the team is blowing their opportunity in what he declared to be a year where we're supposed to legitimately contend for the national title.

Let's get a little perspective here and look at what we did last year. Did we make a deep run? Yes. But arguably we overachieved last year after going on a quite unlikely tear.


11 games in we were 6W-3L-1T-1OTL.

In 2023-2024, The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 40 comparison wins and an rpi of .5239

Including all playoff games, we improbably went 16W-3L-5T the rest of the way.

Now let's compare to this season.

After our 11th game on 12/7, out record stood at
4W-3L-3T-1OTW.

In 2024-2025 The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 39 comparison wins and an rpi of .5231

I don't know what happened last year to get the team on track after the holiday break, but something tells me it was part coaching and quite a bit of run good to over achieve. Basing expectations for this year on where we finished last year and not looking at how we got there is a mistake. So far, this year's team and last year's team are effectively the same.

So how’d that turn out?

Clownlover is still managing to miss my point ffs.

By any measure, we overachieved in the second half last year. And even with that hot run needed to win the ecac tourney to get into the NCAA tournament. If the second half was replayed 100 times, with everything the same, I doubt we even sniff the ncaas 10 percent of the time. We ran hot.

Overachieving last year raised expectations too high amongst some observers: most notably Clownlover.

While we're underperforming against even reasonable expectations so far this year, the injury situation has got to be the undisputed primary cause now that we've been treated to multiple viewings of the Rayhill show.

????????

The point you are making is completely nonsensical. By your logic, taking the second half of last season as given, if the first half was replayed 100 times, Cornell would make the NCAAs 90/100 times. As this example demonstrates, it makes literally no sense to view things this way.

Last year Cornell was 13th in the PWR as of the start of the NCAA tournament. That takes into account both the first and second half of the season. By your deranged logic, my expectations were too high because Cornell happened to win more games in the second half than in the first half? Huh????

It’s totally irrelevant the order in which Cornell won the games. The end result was an NCAA bid. You’re cherry-picking a random chunk of the season and then saying Cornell overachieved during the rest of the season, but you could just as easily do the reverse: pick a different chunk of the season and then argue Cornell underachieved the rest of the season. Or, you could do what anybody with an actual brain would do and evaluate last season in its totality, the result of which was making the NCAA tournament as the 13th best team in the country (and then winning a round before losing to the eventual champs).

I can’t tell if you actually believe the things you say or if you think I’m stupid enough to let you dig out of the hole you dug when you started this thread.

BearLover

abmarks

BearLover

abmarks
Because numbers talk and clownlover shouldn't.

Clownlover has been all over the place; beside himself that the team is blowing their opportunity in what he declared to be a year where we're supposed to legitimately contend for the national title.

Let's get a little perspective here and look at what we did last year. Did we make a deep run? Yes. But arguably we overachieved last year after going on a quite unlikely tear.


11 games in we were 6W-3L-1T-1OTL.

In 2023-2024, The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 40 comparison wins and an rpi of .5239

Including all playoff games, we improbably went 16W-3L-5T the rest of the way.

Now let's compare to this season.

After our 11th game on 12/7, out record stood at
4W-3L-3T-1OTW.

In 2024-2025 The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 39 comparison wins and an rpi of .5231

I don't know what happened last year to get the team on track after the holiday break, but something tells me it was part coaching and quite a bit of run good to over achieve. Basing expectations for this year on where we finished last year and not looking at how we got there is a mistake. So far, this year's team and last year's team are effectively the same.

So how’d that turn out?

Clownlover is still managing to miss my point ffs.

By any measure, we overachieved in the second half last year. And even with that hot run needed to win the ecac tourney to get into the NCAA tournament. If the second half was replayed 100 times, with everything the same, I doubt we even sniff the ncaas 10 percent of the time. We ran hot.

Overachieving last year raised expectations too high amongst some observers: most notably Clownlover.

While we're underperforming against even reasonable expectations so far this year, the injury situation has got to be the undisputed primary cause now that we've been treated to multiple viewings of the Rayhill show.

????????

The point you are making is completely nonsensical. By your logic, taking the second half of last season as given, if the first half was replayed 100 times, Cornell would make the NCAAs 90/100 times. As this example demonstrates, it makes literally no sense to view things this way.

Last year Cornell was 13th in the PWR as of the start of the NCAA tournament. That takes into account both the first and second half of the season. By your deranged logic, my expectations were too high because Cornell happened to win more games in the second half than in the first half? Huh????

It’s totally irrelevant the order in which Cornell won the games. The end result was an NCAA bid. You’re cherry-picking a random chunk of the season and then saying Cornell overachieved during the rest of the season, but you could just as easily do the reverse: pick a different chunk of the season and then argue Cornell underachieved the rest of the season. Or, you could do what anybody with an actual brain would do and evaluate last season in its totality, the result of which was making the NCAA tournament as the 13th best team in the country (and then winning a round before losing to the eventual champs).

I can’t tell if you actually believe the things you say or if you think I’m stupid enough to let you dig out of the hole you dug when you started this thread.

Literacy check?

If the second half was replayed 100 times, with everything the same, I doubt we even sniff the ncaas 10 percent of the time.

Talk about interpreting something the way you want to see it. My fault for leaving room to read that two different ways.

When I said "with everything the same" I meant no variables, like injuries, change. The inputs are constant, not the outputs. Rewind the time machine to puck drop for each of those games and replay it 100 times.

Picture a monte carlo sim where first half results are fixed but second half varies per a monte carlo simulation.

Our second half record is going to be worse almost every time and we only finish on the bubble or in the tourny 10 percent. We whiff the tournament over 90 percent of the time.

BearLover


It’s totally irrelevant the order in which Cornell won the games. The end result was an NCAA bid.

This is where you're wrong. In sports, things come in streaks, you get hot and cold. There are intangibles like momentum. If Cornell went on a 20 game heater to start the season then collapsed to lose 7 and tie 6 over the last month, that's a very different team with different expectations. Last year they got hot and made a run. That's hockey.

abmarks

BearLover

abmarks

BearLover

abmarks
Because numbers talk and clownlover shouldn't.

Clownlover has been all over the place; beside himself that the team is blowing their opportunity in what he declared to be a year where we're supposed to legitimately contend for the national title.

Let's get a little perspective here and look at what we did last year. Did we make a deep run? Yes. But arguably we overachieved last year after going on a quite unlikely tear.


11 games in we were 6W-3L-1T-1OTL.

In 2023-2024, The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 40 comparison wins and an rpi of .5239

Including all playoff games, we improbably went 16W-3L-5T the rest of the way.

Now let's compare to this season.

After our 11th game on 12/7, out record stood at
4W-3L-3T-1OTW.

In 2024-2025 The day after our 11th game, our pwr rank was 25th with 39 comparison wins and an rpi of .5231

I don't know what happened last year to get the team on track after the holiday break, but something tells me it was part coaching and quite a bit of run good to over achieve. Basing expectations for this year on where we finished last year and not looking at how we got there is a mistake. So far, this year's team and last year's team are effectively the same.

So how’d that turn out?

Clownlover is still managing to miss my point ffs.

By any measure, we overachieved in the second half last year. And even with that hot run needed to win the ecac tourney to get into the NCAA tournament. If the second half was replayed 100 times, with everything the same, I doubt we even sniff the ncaas 10 percent of the time. We ran hot.

Overachieving last year raised expectations too high amongst some observers: most notably Clownlover.

While we're underperforming against even reasonable expectations so far this year, the injury situation has got to be the undisputed primary cause now that we've been treated to multiple viewings of the Rayhill show.

????????

The point you are making is completely nonsensical. By your logic, taking the second half of last season as given, if the first half was replayed 100 times, Cornell would make the NCAAs 90/100 times. As this example demonstrates, it makes literally no sense to view things this way.

Last year Cornell was 13th in the PWR as of the start of the NCAA tournament. That takes into account both the first and second half of the season. By your deranged logic, my expectations were too high because Cornell happened to win more games in the second half than in the first half? Huh????

It’s totally irrelevant the order in which Cornell won the games. The end result was an NCAA bid. You’re cherry-picking a random chunk of the season and then saying Cornell overachieved during the rest of the season, but you could just as easily do the reverse: pick a different chunk of the season and then argue Cornell underachieved the rest of the season. Or, you could do what anybody with an actual brain would do and evaluate last season in its totality, the result of which was making the NCAA tournament as the 13th best team in the country (and then winning a round before losing to the eventual champs).

I can’t tell if you actually believe the things you say or if you think I’m stupid enough to let you dig out of the hole you dug when you started this thread.

Literacy check?

If the second half was replayed 100 times, with everything the same, I doubt we even sniff the ncaas 10 percent of the time.

Talk about interpreting something the way you want to see it. My fault for leaving room to read that two different ways.

When I said "with everything the same" I meant no variables, like injuries, change. The inputs are constant, not the outputs. Rewind the time machine to puck drop for each of those games and replay it 100 times.

Picture a monte carlo sim where first half results are fixed but second half varies per a monte carlo simulation.

Our second half record is going to be worse almost every time and we only finish on the bubble or in the tourny 10 percent. We whiff the tournament over 90 percent of the time.

Who cares about any of that stuff? Why would you hold the first half fixed? Your point is still total nonsense. You’re choosing to hold the worst stretch of the season as fixed and then argue we overachieved because we got lucky in the second half.

You’re not making any coherent point by doing this. If anything, you’re bolstering my point that we were pretty fucked as of the end of first semester this season. But that’s not what you’re trying to say. You’re trying to say my expectations were too high because Cornell won much more in the second half of the season than in the first half. You’re treating the worst stretch of the season as indicative of the team’s ability rather than the full season.

There are many reasons why expectations were rightfully high for this team. I’m not going to repeat them here because it’s outside the scope of this conversation. The only thing I need to say is this: your point is incoherent because there is no justification for holding constant the worst chunk of the season and then arguing the rest was lucky.

The Rancor

BearLover


It’s totally irrelevant the order in which Cornell won the games. The end result was an NCAA bid.

This is where you're wrong. In sports, things come in streaks, you get hot and cold. There are intangibles like momentum. If Cornell went on a 20 game heater to start the season then collapsed to lose 7 and tie 6 over the last month, that's a very different team with different expectations. Last year they got hot and made a run. That's hockey.

I think most studies have shown momentum isn’t really a thing. Good teams just happen to win a bunch of games in a row sometimes. In any case, I’m not disagreeing with you and whether or not momentum exists, it doesn’t change the fact that abmarks’s argument is nonsense. Look at the season as a whole, don’t cherry pick a random chunk to make a point.

This is the same guy who insisted last season was going to go backwards from the year before ... and then when it actually didn't, is now trying to insist last season is perfectly indicative of where they should've been.

Any wonder ...

adamw
This is the same guy who insisted last season was going to go backwards from the year before ... and then when it actually didn't, is now trying to insist last season is perfectly indicative of where they should've been.

Any wonder ...

Lol, so I’m instead supposed to pretend we were mediocre last season? It’s called updating your view with new data instead of sticking to the same stubborn viewpoint. Maybe you should try it.

Last year I predicted we finish in the 20s in the Pairwise because we lost like 5/8 of our leading scorers from the prior season and were going to be playing 8+ freshmen every game. This year I thought we would be better given we were very good last year and returned almost everybody. Both were very reasonable predictions whether or not they turned out correct. At least I justify my thinking with more than “Schafer good coach.”

BearLover

adamw
This is the same guy who insisted last season was going to go backwards from the year before ... and then when it actually didn't, is now trying to insist last season is perfectly indicative of where they should've been.

Any wonder ...

Lol, so I’m instead supposed to pretend we were mediocre last season? It’s called updating your view with new data instead of sticking to the same stubborn viewpoint. Maybe you should try it.

Last year I predicted we finish in the 20s in the Pairwise because we lost like 5/8 of our leading scorers from the prior season and were going to be playing 8+ freshmen every game. This year I thought we would be better given we were very good last year and returned almost everybody. Both were very reasonable predictions whether or not they turned out correct. At least I justify my thinking with more than “Schafer good coach.”

your drivel would have more merit if you didn't basically call me an idiot for suggesting last year that the team would be better than the year before.

I am once again asking people to chill the fuck out. I made an ad hom thread for a reason. If you must act like 10-year old boys, please do it there.

Trotsky
I am once again asking people to chill the fuck out. I made an ad hom thread for a reason. If you must act like 10-year old boys, please do it there.

+1

Swampy

Trotsky
I am once again asking people to chill the fuck out. I made an ad hom thread for a reason. If you must act like 10-year old boys, please do it there.

+1

+2

Chris H82

Swampy

Trotsky
I am once again asking people to chill the fuck out. I made an ad hom thread for a reason. If you must act like 10-year old boys, please do it there.

+1

+2

-1

come on fellow assholes we can turn this around

Chris H82

Swampy

Trotsky
I am once again asking people to chill the fuck out. I made an ad hom thread for a reason. If you must act like 10-year old boys, please do it there.

+1

+2

+3

stereax

Chris H82

Swampy

Trotsky
I am once again asking people to chill the fuck out. I made an ad hom thread for a reason. If you must act like 10-year old boys, please do it there.

+1

+2

+3

+4