Cornell at Dartmouth 11/15

First road game of the season and of course it has to be in Hanover. Dartmouth is undefeated and has looked scary offensively although their competition has been on the weaker side so far. Either way, it seems they're on a continued resurgence under Cashman and it is mostly the same team that almost eliminated Cornell in Lake Placid only a few months ago

Also, who would've thought these teams would be top 5 in PWR at the same time at any point of the season?

Reinrassig Radio a little slow off the mark again tonight, but we finally got to Mike.

Parker Murray in for Sullivan Mack.

I hope Dartmouth's band has learned Pink Pony Club.

"Best start in 70 years" is one of those things that cuts both ways.

This is really fun so far. Good hockey.

Brown beating Q. Fuck you, Rand.

"Mis-timed"?

Welp. God bless Ian.

Trotsky
Reinrassig Radio a little slow off the mark again tonight, but we finally got to Mike.

Parker Murray in for Sullivan Mack.

Horrific injury luck continues. This is turning into the 2018-19 season.

Trotsky
"Mis-timed"?

I like this pbp guy for Dartmouth - much better than the students they’ve employed in the past. But the color guy giving a shouted, detached, and overdramatic thesis every few minutes, well, he amuses me.

It probably should be 3-1 Green at this point, but here we are in a familiar place.

Thompson could be a really intimidating place, if anyone ever decided to show up.

Trotsky
Welp. God bless Ian.

having a goaltender is amazing

BearLover

Trotsky
Reinrassig Radio a little slow off the mark again tonight, but we finally got to Mike.

Parker Murray in for Sullivan Mack.

Horrific injury luck continues. This is turning into the 2018-19 season.

Mack is supposed to be back next week at least.

Do you folks keep getting the goal repeated over the game feed? Like the guy queuing the highlight doesn't know he's on the air?

Trotsky
Do you folks keep getting the goal repeated over the game feed? Like the guy queuing the highlight doesn't know he's on the air?

Yes
Annoying

I bailed and synced Jason.

Edit: And immediately go back. WHCU is unlistenable because of endless hospital ads that get laid over the broadcast, interrupting in the middle of play.

The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

HOLY SHIT THAT IS A ONE MAN EFFORT!!!

Wow that was one hell of a goal by Penney.

Fantastic solo effort from the captain.

This team is completely lost on the penalty kill without Syer

How often have we had more SHG than PPG?

BearLover
This team is completely lost on the penalty kill without Syer

Yeah, not looking great. Everybody collapsed on the wrong man on the first goal, then nobody picked up the guy in the slot on the second one. Special teams just don't look strong right now.

We get 5 minutes to figure it out.

5 minute major for Dartmouth

More skate less pass please.

Just saw the Penney goal. Holy crap.

Sloppy play and it’s disappointing to see

If I could change one thing in this universe, I'd require a player serving penalty that goes across periods to spend intermission in the penalty box.

Pitiful. Worst special teams I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen bad PP, I’ve seen bad PK, but I’ve never seen them combined on the same team like this before. Can we renege the Casey hire?

Dafatone
If I could change one thing in this universe, I'd require a player serving penalty that goes across periods to spend intermission in the penalty box.

Great idea

Great pressure by Cornell, great tip by the captain.

That even strength shift looked like a better power play than the power play. Nice goal boys!

We take those!!! Let's go!

9 shots in the first 9 minutes. Good period for the guys.

I love how much time these guys are taking drawing up the playoff picture in November.

RichH
I love how much time these guys are taking drawing up the playoff picture in November.

If these trends continue...

I need everyone who has ever complained about Lynah not being 100% full to look at this rink and apologize. Holy Ian Shane.

We have control now just have to pot 1.

YESSSS CATALANO

They're reviewing???

stereax
I need everyone who has ever complained about Lynah not being 100% full to look at this rink and apologize.

In the 80s this would have been a dream crowd for Thompson. You could hear individual conversations.

Trotsky

stereax
I need everyone who has ever complained about Lynah not being 100% full to look at this rink and apologize.

In the 80s this would have been a dream crowd for Thompson. You could hear individual conversations.

Jesus... that bad?

IT COUNTSSSSS

Good call stripes.

stereax

Trotsky

stereax
I need everyone who has ever complained about Lynah not being 100% full to look at this rink and apologize.

In the 80s this would have been a dream crowd for Thompson. You could hear individual conversations.

Jesus... that bad?

Oh yeah. Meehan and Thompson were always 10:1 Cornell fans.

YOU GOTTA CLEAR THAT HOLY CRAP

Shit. Bad clear.

Pathetic

Trotsky

stereax

Trotsky

stereax
I need everyone who has ever complained about Lynah not being 100% full to look at this rink and apologize.

In the 80s this would have been a dream crowd for Thompson. You could hear individual conversations.

Jesus... that bad?

Oh yeah. Meehan and Thompson were always 10:1 Cornell fans.

Meehan is... Brown? I see.

stereax
YOU GOTTA CLEAR THAT HOLY CRAP

what a horrible pass across

Oof, two terrible giveaways on that shift might've just handed Dartmouth the game, and they were looking totally gassed.

The sad part is this was one of the best periods they’ve had before coughing it up twice.

RichH
The sad part is this was one of the best periods they’ve had before coughing it up twice.

Yes.

RichH
The sad part is this was one of the best periods they’ve had before coughing it up twice.

Eeeeeyup. My cardiac health can't take this :'(

To be fair we made terrible mistakes 2x in the first and Ian saved us. I don't know if it's bad ice or inattention but for a game where we have played very well, we have also pulled a bunch of awful boners.

I still believe, somehow.

Oh well. Lots to think about on the trip to Alston.

Trotsky
To be fair we made terrible mistakes 2x in the first and Ian saved us. I don't know if it's bad ice or inattention but for a game where we have played very well, we have also pulled a bunch of awful boners.

Well... always tomorrow. Ice looked awful though, how many times was the net dislodged? But take the momentum from this 3rd and whoop some rears tomorrow.

This team has a long way to go. Injuries are one thing but bad, unforced passes are another

the D zone mistakes really were the game. Too many bad decisions.

Other than that, had the better of possession and shots.

Need to get something out of the PP. Dart basically got 2 and we got zip again.

Iceberg
This team has a long way to go. Injuries are one thing but bad, unforced passes are another

So often a problem in the early season. But O’Leary, of all people, should know better.

stereax

Trotsky

stereax

Trotsky

stereax
I need everyone who has ever complained about Lynah not being 100% full to look at this rink and apologize.

In the 80s this would have been a dream crowd for Thompson. You could hear individual conversations.

Jesus... that bad?

Oh yeah. Meehan and Thompson were always 10:1 Cornell fans.

Meehan is... Brown? I see.

Meehan is my go to for unbelievably empty.

Holy fuck, I have never seen a Cornell team beat itself this badly before. Dartmouth did NOT look good. Cornell is just clueless on special teams and made so many unforced turnovers. I blame this one on the coaching staff. The special teams looked totally unprepared. Why are we still running out the same unit on the PP when we are like 0-for-20 this year?

Need to get players back from injury. Much harder to win when you have 4+ forwards in the lineup who are not a threat to score. Awful rookie mistakes by the freshmen and also by some seniors. Can’t even bench them because there’s no one else to turn to.

Totally embarrassing loss against a mediocre team.

Always have trouble at Thompson. Tonight CU didn’t look lost or uninspired and still took the L. Oh well. At least we lost to a Dartmouth team that has some talent up and down instead of the old Gaudet Goon squad.

What month/year will we get a PPG? Not even remotely close to being threatening a man up. Gotta shore up special teams before I can call this team special.

I’m really pissed off between this and the soccer OT loss. Gotta get the win tomorrow.

Scersk '97

Iceberg
This team has a long way to go. Injuries are one thing but bad, unforced passes are another

So often a problem in the early season. But O’Leary, of all people, should know better.

O’Leary should ride the bench tomorrow. Too bad there are literally zero extra healthy forwards and we had to play a D at forward tonight, so we get to watch him spin wildly and turn the puck over for another 60 minutes. Badly need Fegaras back too, some of the bottom few D are extremely turnover prone and show little offensive ability.

RichH
Always have trouble at Thompson. Tonight CU didn’t look lost or uninspired and still took the L. Oh well. At least we lost to a Dartmouth team that has some talent up and down instead of the old Gaudet Goon squad.

What month/year will we get a PPG? Gotta shore up special teams before I can call this team special.

Dartmouth had a few D who could move the puck and little else. Pretty weak to get badly outplayed on home ice against an injury riddled team. I wasn’t impressed by them, at all. Would much rather play them than Quinnipiac or Harvard. Speaking of which.

Yeah, that's a talented Dartmouth team. We shot ourselves in the head, no question, but there will be some lessons learned coming out of this that won't be forgotten.

On to Harvard. I strongly suspect the team will come out on fire tomorrow night.

Trotsky
Yeah, that's a talented Dartmouth team. We shot ourselves in the head, no question, but there will be some lessons learned coming out of this that won't be forgotten.

On to Harvard. I strongly suspect the team will come out on fire tomorrow night.

Did we watch the same Dartmouth team? They got totally pushed around after the first five minutes. They showed little speed, getting beaten by Cornell to almost every loose puck.

BTW, did Cornell put a shot on goal on the 5-minute major? The best opportunity by far during the five minutes was Dartmouth shorthanded chance when Cornell nearly scored on itself.

There was definitely a shot on goal near the end of the 2nd period, but there was very little of anything on that major PP in general

Did anyone both to check on Shane to see if he was okay after the hit? He was shaky after that.

This team hasn’t looked right all season. Injuries, or is something more fundamentally wrong?

BearLover
Did anyone both to check on Shane to see if he was okay after the hit? He was shaky after that.

This team hasn’t looked right all season. Injuries, or is something more fundamentally wrong?

What really bothered me is that nobody actually stood up for Shane after that hit. Guys lazily skated up and pushed the Dartmouth guy around a little bit because they felt like they had to but it was clear that they just wanted the power play and didn’t really care. You’ve got to come out there and really rough the guy up after he does that to your goalie and we just didn’t. Not saying it cost us the game or anything but it was annoying.

chimpfood

BearLover
Did anyone both to check on Shane to see if he was okay after the hit? He was shaky after that.

This team hasn’t looked right all season. Injuries, or is something more fundamentally wrong?

What really bothered me is that nobody actually stood up for Shane after that hit. Guys lazily skated up and pushed the Dartmouth guy around a little bit because they felt like they had to but it was clear that they just wanted the power play and didn’t really care. You’ve got to come out there and really rough the guy up after he does that to your goalie and we just didn’t. Not saying it cost us the game or anything but it was annoying.

I actually thought Cornell’s response was one of the few smart choices they made tonight. They were down in the game and couldn’t risk taking a retaliatory penalty. Three Cornell players jumped the guy, I don’t think you can really ask for more.

Terrible night, though. One of the most frustrating games I can remember.

BearLover

Trotsky
Yeah, that's a talented Dartmouth team. We shot ourselves in the head, no question, but there will be some lessons learned coming out of this that won't be forgotten.

On to Harvard. I strongly suspect the team will come out on fire tomorrow night.

Did we watch the same Dartmouth team? They got totally pushed around after the first five minutes. They showed little speed, getting beaten by Cornell to almost every loose puck.

I know what I watched. Dartmouth had speed and backchecking skill. System-wise they were pretty disorganized. They ran a good kill and a good pp. They were able to exploit our mistakes.

I can't speak for what you watched except to say every time we've fallen behind in a gamethread you've whipped out the seppuku kit and I've gone from being annoyed to being impatient for you to complete the play.

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Nm, misunderstood something

Cornell was clearly the better team last night. On the road, down six injured players, they controlled the game. Dartmouth created opportunities off Cornell turnovers but otherwise they got pushed around and outskated. For a team that’s supposedly going to compete for the ECAC, Dartmouth was pretty unimpressive.

Cornell lost this game because of some of the worst special teams and some of the worst turnovers I can remember seeing from a Cornell team. Are the top three lines just exhausted from being over-shifted? There are big costs to not being able to field a full team.

You could see this coming with how Cornell has played so far, starting with the North Dakota weekend. The million dollar question is whether it’s injuries or something more fundamental. Getting back the injured players is clearly necessary to have a good year. The season is at risk of going downhill quickly if Cornell loses to Harvard tonight. Harvard, which will be better than Dartmouth both at creating turnovers and capitalizing off of them, will score at least six if Cornell plays like it did last night.

RichH

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Adding my slow clap in as well. Question from a new fan, did that guy do something last year and that's why we hate him?

BearLover
Cornell was clearly the better team last night. On the road, down six injured players, they controlled the game. Dartmouth created opportunities off Cornell turnovers but otherwise they got pushed around and outskated. For a team that’s supposedly going to compete for the ECAC, Dartmouth was pretty unimpressive.

Unimpressive or not to your expert eye, they're now 5-0 with wins agains Harvard, Quinnipiac, and Cornell. They beat Princeton handily. They were picked 3rd in the coaches poll, above Harvard and Clarkson. I don't know what more they have to do to signal that they're "supposedly" going to compete for the ECAC.

Cornell lost this game because of some of the worst special teams and some of the worst turnovers I can remember seeing from a Cornell team. Are the top three lines just exhausted from being over-shifted? There are big costs to not being able to field a full team.

Completely agree. Having so many out is putting players who never have never played on a line together. Line familiarity and chemistry is important to a team like this with no Morgan Barron type to carry the weight.

stereax

RichH

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Adding my slow clap in as well. Question from a new fan, did that guy do something last year and that's why we hate him?

The Fusco brothers starred for Harvard back in their dynastic period (1980s). Trotsky is having mild PTSD seeing Mark's son. John Fusco scored twice against Cornell in the ECAC Semifinals (and also scored twice at Lynah) last season.

RichH

stereax

RichH

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Adding my slow clap in as well. Question from a new fan, did that guy do something last year and that's why we hate him?

The Fusco brothers starred for Harvard back in their dynastic period (1980s). Trotsky is having mild PTSD seeing Mark's son. John Fusco scored twice against Cornell in the ECAC Semifinals (and also scored twice at Lynah) last season.

Ahhh I see, thanks! I heard Fusco a lot on the broadcast and was wondering. Thought it was because there are two of them and they were so frequently talked about. Though my question was originally for McDonald actually, I'm enjoying the lore haha!

stereax

RichH

stereax

RichH

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Adding my slow clap in as well. Question from a new fan, did that guy do something last year and that's why we hate him?

The Fusco brothers starred for Harvard back in their dynastic period (1980s). Trotsky is having mild PTSD seeing Mark's son. John Fusco scored twice against Cornell in the ECAC Semifinals (and also scored twice at Lynah) last season.

Ahhh I see, thanks! I heard Fusco a lot on the broadcast and was wondering. Thought it was because there are two of them and they were so frequently talked about. Though my question was originally for McDonald actually, I'm enjoying the lore haha!

Same answer for MacDonald. Lane MacDonald, another Harvard superstar won the Honey Baker aware in 1989, the same year that absolutely nothing happened in the NCAA tournament. Ben is his son, playing for nobody.

RichH

stereax

RichH

stereax

RichH

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Adding my slow clap in as well. Question from a new fan, did that guy do something last year and that's why we hate him?

The Fusco brothers starred for Harvard back in their dynastic period (1980s). Trotsky is having mild PTSD seeing Mark's son. John Fusco scored twice against Cornell in the ECAC Semifinals (and also scored twice at Lynah) last season.

Ahhh I see, thanks! I heard Fusco a lot on the broadcast and was wondering. Thought it was because there are two of them and they were so frequently talked about. Though my question was originally for McDonald actually, I'm enjoying the lore haha!

Same answer for MacDonald. Lane MacDonald, another Harvard superstar won the Honey Baker aware in 1989, the same year that absolutely nothing happened in the NCAA tournament. Ben is his son, playing for nobody.

I see, got it! Yeah, weird that tournament didn't happen...

I’m confused why we started the season with injuries. How did they injure before even playing a game? Did they not do what they were supposed to do in the off season, or do we need a new S&C coach, or something else?

RichH

stereax

RichH

stereax

RichH

Trotsky
The Fuscos make me understand how the Hatfields felt.

I didn’t want this to go without recognition, so here’s a slow clap.

A reminder for Saturday:
[gocrimson.com]

Adding my slow clap in as well. Question from a new fan, did that guy do something last year and that's why we hate him?

The Fusco brothers starred for Harvard back in their dynastic period (1980s). Trotsky is having mild PTSD seeing Mark's son. John Fusco scored twice against Cornell in the ECAC Semifinals (and also scored twice at Lynah) last season.

Ahhh I see, thanks! I heard Fusco a lot on the broadcast and was wondering. Thought it was because there are two of them and they were so frequently talked about. Though my question was originally for McDonald actually, I'm enjoying the lore haha!

Same answer for MacDonald. Lane MacDonald, another Harvard superstar won the Honey Baker aware in 1989, the same year that absolutely nothing happened in the NCAA tournament. Ben is his son, playing for nobody.

what a ham

ER
I’m confused why we started the season with injuries. How did they injure before even playing a game? Did they not do what they were supposed to do in the off season, or do we need a new S&C coach, or something else?

I believe some had surgeries at the end of last season or over the summer that may require a lengthy rehab

fastforward

ER
I’m confused why we started the season with injuries. How did they injure before even playing a game? Did they not do what they were supposed to do in the off season, or do we need a new S&C coach, or something else?

I believe some had surgeries at the end of last season or over the summer that may require a lengthy rehab

I think everyone who is currently injured played in the Czech games this summer and/or played earlier this season. How they got hurt I have no idea (other than Psenicka). But these injuries all seem to have occurred within the last couple of months.

The guys got hurt in the practices leading up to the season. All freak things. None of those injuries occurred in Europe like I expected once I saw the carnage come that preseason game vs Princeton. They have to figure out a way to stay afloat before the "trade deadline" acquisitions reinforce the depth in the new year.

Anyone have an idea why that game didn't land in the on demand cue for ESPN+? Was expecting to be able to watch it later on only to be disappointed that it was nowhere to be found.

VIEWfromK
The guys got hurt in the practices leading up to the season. All freak things. None of those injuries occurred in Europe like I expected once I saw the carnage come that preseason game vs Princeton. They have to figure out a way to stay afloat before the "trade deadline" acquisitions reinforce the depth in the new year.

So what’s the timeline on the injured players returning? Seems like:
Mack—back next week
Psenicka—week to week
Fegaras—sometime in the next few weeks(?)
Wallace—next semester
Devlin—next semester
Wolfenberg—who knows, but looked like it will be awhile

Did I forget anyone? Is Mosko hurt too? He has seen no ice time despite being the 7th defenseman last year and Fegaras being out.

Need to get healthy ASAP because the team is really struggling right now.

BearLover

VIEWfromK
The guys got hurt in the practices leading up to the season. All freak things. None of those injuries occurred in Europe like I expected once I saw the carnage come that preseason game vs Princeton. They have to figure out a way to stay afloat before the "trade deadline" acquisitions reinforce the depth in the new year.

So what’s the timeline on the injured players returning? Seems like:
Mack—back next week
Psenicka—week to week
Fegaras—sometime in the next few weeks(?)
Wallace—next semester
Devlin—next semester
Wolfenberg—who knows, but looked like it will be awhile

Did I forget anyone? Is Mosko hurt too? He has seen no ice time despite being the 7th defenseman last year and Fegaras being out.

We're getting very close to the surprise debut of either Rayhill or Steele. Yeah, we need to get healthy.

Need to get healthy ASAP because the team is really struggling right now.

Coach mentioned 7 players out in the short broadcast interview after the Harvard game. At the beginning of the game, that would have been, I'm thinking:

Mack     ——  back next week, as you say
Psenicka ——  "questionable" for this last weekend, according to the Sun
Fegaras  ——  "hand injury" according to the Sun preview; would have to assume next semester?
Wallace  ——  no idea; recall his trick knee injury at the beginning of last year
Devlin   ——  no idea
Mosko    ——  he and O'Brien split 7th defenseman last year, but I had more confidence in Mosko; haven't seen him, so no idea

I'm going to guess he's counting Wolfenberg or Bancroft, subconsciously, to get to seven. The hit on Wolfenberg looked like it just rode up on him. From what happened on the broadcast, I'm going to assume he started showing some concussion effects on the bench and then had to go up the tunnel.

When will he be back? Who knows with concussions? Could be next week; could be next semester.

We're very close to the debut of either Rayhill or Steele. Yeah, we need to get healthy.

Rayhill has to get a uniform at some point this season just as a reward for sticking around for four years. As to Steele, certainly he’s big and played at a real Junior program. Who knows why he never seems close to breaking in.

BearLover

VIEWfromK
The guys got hurt in the practices leading up to the season. All freak things. None of those injuries occurred in Europe like I expected once I saw the carnage come that preseason game vs Princeton. They have to figure out a way to stay afloat before the "trade deadline" acquisitions reinforce the depth in the new year.

So what’s the timeline on the injured players returning? Seems like:
Mack—back next week
Psenicka—week to week
Fegaras—sometime in the next few weeks(?)
Wallace—next semester
Devlin—next semester
Wolfenberg—who knows, but looked like it will be awhile

Did I forget anyone? Is Mosko hurt too? He has seen no ice time despite being the 7th defenseman last year and Fegaras being out.

Need to get healthy ASAP because the team
is really struggling right now.

From the Cornell Hockey Association Welcome Picnic (9/29/24), both Devlin and Wallace were in casts with knee scooters. Devlin’s looked like an Aircast Boot and Wallace’s looked like a hard cast. Fegaras didn’t seem to be injured at that date. Ironically, Psenicka looked to have a wrist cast (don’t know if this is related to his current injury). Here are the links to the photos. You can scroll through.

[www.cornellhockeyassociation.com]

Rayhill played in the Toronto pre season game. He got some regular shifts in the third if I remember correctly (not always a certainty anymore). I was happy to see him get a chance.

When was the last time they pulled from the club team to increase their depth? Was that the situation with Matt Hedge a few years back?

VIEWfromK
Rayhill played in the Toronto pre season game. He got some regular shifts in the third if I remember correctly (not always a certainty anymore). I was happy to see him get a chance.

When was the last time they pulled from the club team to increase their depth? Was that the situation with Matt Hedge a few years back?

Or soccer players with a hockey background?

VIEWfromK
Rayhill played in the Toronto pre season game. He got some regular shifts in the third if I remember correctly (not always a certainty anymore). I was happy to see him get a chance.

When was the last time they pulled from the club team to increase their depth? Was that the situation with Matt Hedge a few years back?

Is there even still a club team?

Aint no rule says a dog can't play hockey...

abmarks


Is there even still a club team?

Yes. They played at Cortland a month or so back.

They smoked us the one season I played at IC in the late nineties.

do they still have the club roller hockey team?

abmarks

VIEWfromK
Rayhill played in the Toronto pre season game. He got some regular shifts in the third if I remember correctly (not always a certainty anymore). I was happy to see him get a chance.

When was the last time they pulled from the club team to increase their depth? Was that the situation with Matt Hedge a few years back?

Is there even still a club team?

Players have been called up for a full season when a recruit decommits late or something along those lines. For a few weeks due to a rash of injuries though? I don’t recall that.

CU2007

abmarks

VIEWfromK
Rayhill played in the Toronto pre season game. He got some regular shifts in the third if I remember correctly (not always a certainty anymore). I was happy to see him get a chance.

When was the last time they pulled from the club team to increase their depth? Was that the situation with Matt Hedge a few years back?

Is there even still a club team?

Players have been called up for a full season when a recruit decommits late or something along those lines. For a few weeks due to a rash of injuries though? I don’t recall that.

It happened a few times with an emergency backup goalie back in the late 90s when the team's injury situation seemed to be even worse than this year, but I don't recall any skaters filling in that way.

upprdeck
do they still have the club roller hockey team?

Artist's conception: