Recruits 2025 and Beyond

chimpfood
Is Pirtle still coming? Don’t see him listed anywhere.

He is listed as committed to Cornell on his team’s website and also in Heisenberg's list.

chimpfood
Is Pirtle still coming? Don’t see him listed anywhere.

His team profile shows him as a Cornell commit: [www.victoriagrizzlies.com]

Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

with the number of seniors this year we must be planning on a big fr class, or some transfers

It’s not a great feeling seeing many teams, particularly Quinnipiac and Clarkson, recruiting a bunch of ‘04s from major juniors. These players are older and have been productive in major juniors and so they will likely make an immediate impact for their college teams. It feels like the fifth year grad transfer bullshit all over again, except now these schools are only adding players, not losing them. I’d like to see Cornell get some of these kids just for reassurance that they’re capable of doing so; but with 24 commitments already, it doesn’t look like we have much/any room left.

Pretty interesting CHN podcast where the Michigan state assistant implied that CHL kids might not adjust well to the physicality of college hockey. Curious to see how it plays out.

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

upprdeck

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

While many years there are some surprise deferrals or accelerations, I expect next fall we'll see at least the following 10: Pirtle, Roest, Pelletier, McCrady, Long, Hiscock, Hamiton, Gorski, Veilleux, and DiGiulian. The only 2006 born player int that group is Veilleux, but he seems more than ready for NCAA hockey. It's possible some of the other 2006's might be in the mix, which would include Arsenault, Ryan, and Sandruck.

chimpfood
Pretty interesting CHN podcast where the Michigan state assistant implied that CHL kids might not adjust well to the physicality of college hockey. Curious to see how it plays out.

The blue bloods of the NCAA have yet to recruit many CHL kids. The exception is Denver, who already has commitments from three. But many schools like BU and BC and UMich have zero. Thus far it seems like CHL eligibility is a bigger boon for the lesser programs than it is for the blue bloods, which is what many had predicted. But there’s a difference between CHL recruits who are 20 and about to age out, and 16-y/os who are about to embark on a junior hockey career. Cornell has no commits in the former category and several in the latter. Which is probably fine long-term but may cause short-term pain as we are forced to play against Clarkson and Quinnipiac and other teams loaded with older players who graduated from the CHL.

chimpfood
Pretty interesting CHN podcast where the Michigan state assistant implied that CHL kids might not adjust well to the physicality of college hockey. Curious to see how it plays out.

Really? I'd think it'd be the other way around, that the CHL is more physical... At least, that's my eye test of it.

CHL is FAR more physical. It's fight central and the checking is rougher than the N.

Trotsky
CHL is FAR more physical. It's fight central and the checking is rougher than the N.

That was my precise impression of it. I guess the MSU guy was saying something more along the lines of "CHL goons will get super penalized in the NCAA"?

stereax

Trotsky
CHL is FAR more physical. It's fight central and the checking is rougher than the N.

That was my precise impression of it. I guess the MSU guy was saying something more along the lines of "CHL goons will get super penalized in the NCAA"?

I had the same impression of the CHL, but I’ve never watched it so I figured I was wrong.

No they talked about how it is more nhl style scoring hockey and that “minutes will go by sometimes without a check thrown”

chimpfood

stereax

Trotsky
CHL is FAR more physical. It's fight central and the checking is rougher than the N.

That was my precise impression of it. I guess the MSU guy was saying something more along the lines of "CHL goons will get super penalized in the NCAA"?

I had the same impression of the CHL, but I’ve never watched it so I figured I was wrong.

No they talked about how it is more nhl style scoring hockey and that “minutes will go by sometimes without a check thrown”

Fun fact, each of the CHL leagues now does a free broadcast weekly - WHL's Wednesday Night in the Dub, QMJHL'S Duel du jeudi soir, OHL's Friday Night Faceoff. All on YouTube, I believe, and past ones are archived!

That being said... I think a lot of checks are thrown at the NCAA level too, lol. Just not as fight central as CHL puck.

I'm pretty anti-fighting in hockey in general, but fighting in leagues with players under 18 is less than great.

Physical doesn’t mean fighting. Physical means how Cornell played in 2003. NCAA is big, strong, tight-checking. I don’t know much about the CHL, but I’d be surprised if it had these qualities on the level of the NCAA.

If they mean endurance WHL guys have us beat. Their seasons are 3x as long, their travel is more difficult, the pressure for them to play hurt is intense. It's a shitty endless grind and the only way it pays off is if they make the show, so the stakes are far higher. If they fail it's not a cushy finance gig it's fuckin' Chrysler plant, here I come.

scoop85

upprdeck

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

While many years there are some surprise deferrals or accelerations, I expect next fall we'll see at least the following 10: Pirtle, Roest, Pelletier, McCrady, Long, Hiscock, Hamiton, Gorski, Veilleux, and DiGiulian. The only 2006 born player int that group is Veilleux, but he seems more than ready for NCAA hockey. It's possible some of the other 2006's might be in the mix, which would include Arsenault, Ryan, and Sandruck.

I would guess McCrady spends another year in juniors. He is a late ‘05 and has just 9 assists and 0 goals through 40 BCHL games. Seems likely the coaching staff views him as a shutdown defender rather than as an offensive threat, so maybe I’m wrong, but it doesn’t seem likely that he would get playing time. Same goes for Hamilton, who has 1 goal and 4 assists across 34 games this season in the USHL and BCHL. Unlike McCrady, though, Hamilton will have already spent three seasons in high level juniors, so my guess is he comes next year.

Assuming 5F/3D/1G come next year, and assuming no further departures, that replaces everybody leaving excluding Rayhill. One question is whether Casey dips in the transfer portal. He regularly did this at Clarkson, but at Cornell it’s going to be harder. It seems to me the biggest position of need by far is goaltending, but Cornell already has three goalies on its roster for next year. For those three goalies, it would be a kick in the balls if Casey were to go out and bring in a fourth to be the starter. Maybe Casey is too nice of a guy to do something like that, but Rand and many other successful coaches would do it in a heartbeat.

BearLover

scoop85

upprdeck

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

While many years there are some surprise deferrals or accelerations, I expect next fall we'll see at least the following 10: Pirtle, Roest, Pelletier, McCrady, Long, Hiscock, Hamiton, Gorski, Veilleux, and DiGiulian. The only 2006 born player int that group is Veilleux, but he seems more than ready for NCAA hockey. It's possible some of the other 2006's might be in the mix, which would include Arsenault, Ryan, and Sandruck.

I would guess McCrady spends another year in juniors. He is a late ‘05 and has just 9 assists and 0 goals through 40 BCHL games. Seems likely the coaching staff views him as a shutdown defender rather than as an offensive threat, so maybe I’m wrong, but it doesn’t seem likely that he would get playing time. Same goes for Hamilton, who has 1 goal and 4 assists across 34 games this season in the USHL and BCHL. Unlike McCrady, though, Hamilton will have already spent three seasons in high level juniors, so my guess is he comes next year.

Assuming 5F/3D/1G come next year, and assuming no further departures, that replaces everybody leaving excluding Rayhill. One question is whether Casey dips in the transfer portal. He regularly did this at Clarkson, but at Cornell it’s going to be harder. It seems to me the biggest position of need by far is goaltending, but Cornell already has three goalies on its roster for next year. For those three goalies, it would be a kick in the balls if Casey were to go out and bring in a fourth to be the starter. Maybe Casey is too nice of a guy to do something like that, but Rand and many other successful coaches would do it in a heartbeat.

Regarding a guy like Hamilton, I assume that unlike Veillieux Hamilton is more of a stay-at-home defenseman so the lack of points doesn’t necessarily reflect his ability or potential value.

scoop85

BearLover

scoop85

upprdeck

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

While many years there are some surprise deferrals or accelerations, I expect next fall we'll see at least the following 10: Pirtle, Roest, Pelletier, McCrady, Long, Hiscock, Hamiton, Gorski, Veilleux, and DiGiulian. The only 2006 born player int that group is Veilleux, but he seems more than ready for NCAA hockey. It's possible some of the other 2006's might be in the mix, which would include Arsenault, Ryan, and Sandruck.

I would guess McCrady spends another year in juniors. He is a late ‘05 and has just 9 assists and 0 goals through 40 BCHL games. Seems likely the coaching staff views him as a shutdown defender rather than as an offensive threat, so maybe I’m wrong, but it doesn’t seem likely that he would get playing time. Same goes for Hamilton, who has 1 goal and 4 assists across 34 games this season in the USHL and BCHL. Unlike McCrady, though, Hamilton will have already spent three seasons in high level juniors, so my guess is he comes next year.

Assuming 5F/3D/1G come next year, and assuming no further departures, that replaces everybody leaving excluding Rayhill. One question is whether Casey dips in the transfer portal. He regularly did this at Clarkson, but at Cornell it’s going to be harder. It seems to me the biggest position of need by far is goaltending, but Cornell already has three goalies on its roster for next year. For those three goalies, it would be a kick in the balls if Casey were to go out and bring in a fourth to be the starter. Maybe Casey is too nice of a guy to do something like that, but Rand and many other successful coaches would do it in a heartbeat.

Regarding a guy like Hamilton, I assume that unlike Veillieux Hamilton is more of a stay-at-home defenseman so the lack of points doesn’t necessarily reflect his ability or potential value.

Out of curiosity, does scoring output for a defenseman devalue the same way from juniors to DI as from DI to the pros? I know it does for forwards, but I’ve generally not paid much attention to how it translates for defense.

I ask because a legitimate stay at home defensive prospect for the NHL is usually well above average in terms of scoring in college. Think Doug Murray or Sam Malinski. If the same trend holds for juniors to college (and I suspect it does, same basic mechanism involving skill gaps), then in all likelihood any low-scoring guy is probably not going to crack the lineup unless there’s some external reason for the low point production.

Tom Lento

scoop85

BearLover

scoop85

upprdeck

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

While many years there are some surprise deferrals or accelerations, I expect next fall we'll see at least the following 10: Pirtle, Roest, Pelletier, McCrady, Long, Hiscock, Hamiton, Gorski, Veilleux, and DiGiulian. The only 2006 born player int that group is Veilleux, but he seems more than ready for NCAA hockey. It's possible some of the other 2006's might be in the mix, which would include Arsenault, Ryan, and Sandruck.

I would guess McCrady spends another year in juniors. He is a late ‘05 and has just 9 assists and 0 goals through 40 BCHL games. Seems likely the coaching staff views him as a shutdown defender rather than as an offensive threat, so maybe I’m wrong, but it doesn’t seem likely that he would get playing time. Same goes for Hamilton, who has 1 goal and 4 assists across 34 games this season in the USHL and BCHL. Unlike McCrady, though, Hamilton will have already spent three seasons in high level juniors, so my guess is he comes next year.

Assuming 5F/3D/1G come next year, and assuming no further departures, that replaces everybody leaving excluding Rayhill. One question is whether Casey dips in the transfer portal. He regularly did this at Clarkson, but at Cornell it’s going to be harder. It seems to me the biggest position of need by far is goaltending, but Cornell already has three goalies on its roster for next year. For those three goalies, it would be a kick in the balls if Casey were to go out and bring in a fourth to be the starter. Maybe Casey is too nice of a guy to do something like that, but Rand and many other successful coaches would do it in a heartbeat.

Regarding a guy like Hamilton, I assume that unlike Veillieux Hamilton is more of a stay-at-home defenseman so the lack of points doesn’t necessarily reflect his ability or potential value.

Out of curiosity, does scoring output for a defenseman devalue the same way from juniors to DI as from DI to the pros? I know it does for forwards, but I’ve generally not paid much attention to how it translates for defense.

I ask because a legitimate stay at home defensive prospect for the NHL is usually well above average in terms of scoring in college. Think Doug Murray or Sam Malinski. If the same trend holds for juniors to college (and I suspect it does, same basic mechanism involving skill gaps), then in all likelihood any low-scoring guy is probably not going to crack the lineup unless there’s some external reason for the low point production.

I suspect there’s a high correlation between point production in juniors and playing time in college, even for D. The reason could simply be that the lack of offensive ability is very costly to a team; it’s a lot easier to create offensive when everyone on the ice is a threat to score. Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

BearLover

Tom Lento

scoop85

BearLover

scoop85

upprdeck

Trotsky

chimpfood
Thanks, glad to hear it, eliteprospects and CHN didn’t list him so I figured he decomitted but glad to hear he hasn’t.

The definitive list.

But how many of these kids are coming next year, we know we need like 10+

While many years there are some surprise deferrals or accelerations, I expect next fall we'll see at least the following 10: Pirtle, Roest, Pelletier, McCrady, Long, Hiscock, Hamiton, Gorski, Veilleux, and DiGiulian. The only 2006 born player int that group is Veilleux, but he seems more than ready for NCAA hockey. It's possible some of the other 2006's might be in the mix, which would include Arsenault, Ryan, and Sandruck.

I would guess McCrady spends another year in juniors. He is a late ‘05 and has just 9 assists and 0 goals through 40 BCHL games. Seems likely the coaching staff views him as a shutdown defender rather than as an offensive threat, so maybe I’m wrong, but it doesn’t seem likely that he would get playing time. Same goes for Hamilton, who has 1 goal and 4 assists across 34 games this season in the USHL and BCHL. Unlike McCrady, though, Hamilton will have already spent three seasons in high level juniors, so my guess is he comes next year.

Assuming 5F/3D/1G come next year, and assuming no further departures, that replaces everybody leaving excluding Rayhill. One question is whether Casey dips in the transfer portal. He regularly did this at Clarkson, but at Cornell it’s going to be harder. It seems to me the biggest position of need by far is goaltending, but Cornell already has three goalies on its roster for next year. For those three goalies, it would be a kick in the balls if Casey were to go out and bring in a fourth to be the starter. Maybe Casey is too nice of a guy to do something like that, but Rand and many other successful coaches would do it in a heartbeat.

Regarding a guy like Hamilton, I assume that unlike Veillieux Hamilton is more of a stay-at-home defenseman so the lack of points doesn’t necessarily reflect his ability or potential value.

Out of curiosity, does scoring output for a defenseman devalue the same way from juniors to DI as from DI to the pros? I know it does for forwards, but I’ve generally not paid much attention to how it translates for defense.

I ask because a legitimate stay at home defensive prospect for the NHL is usually well above average in terms of scoring in college. Think Doug Murray or Sam Malinski. If the same trend holds for juniors to college (and I suspect it does, same basic mechanism involving skill gaps), then in all likelihood any low-scoring guy is probably not going to crack the lineup unless there’s some external reason for the low point production.

I suspect there’s a high correlation between point production in juniors and playing time in college, even for D. The reason could simply be that the lack of offensive ability is very costly to a team; it’s a lot easier to create offensive when everyone on the ice is a threat to score. Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. I’m thinking the level differences also mean guys who are excellent all around players but aren’t generating enough offense to score points regularly will have a tougher time adjusting to the college game because they need to make a bigger adaptation in their play than a similar guy who’s more dominant on the scoresheet. On average, anyway, there’s a lot of luck involved in hockey.

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

Dafatone
I'm pretty anti-fighting in hockey in general, but fighting in leagues with players under 18 is less than great.

Eventually, then, the parents get involved. Or their mouths do. Especially in HS / prep where the parents have super big (super unlikely) hopes for their kids.

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Jim Hyla

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Many players are recruited before they set foot in the USHL/BCHL. Colleges like Cornell project how the kids will develop. So playing time down the road is not certain.

BearLover

Jim Hyla

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Many players are recruited before they set foot in the USHL/BCHL. Colleges like Cornell project how the kids will develop. So playing time down the road is not certain.

Yes they for sure are recruited early. But if they don't develop, the process stops. You don't keep recruiting a player who isn't going to make it.

Your post was talking about players who were already in Juniors.

point production in juniors and playing time in college

If they're in Juniors and aren't getting playing time, the chance of being recruited, except for circumstances like injuries, must be very low.

Jim Hyla
If they're in Juniors and aren't getting playing time, the chance of being recruited, except for circumstances like injuries, must be very low.

Or covid. Wasn't Psenicka's story a bit that he barely played for two years before Cornell? But that's again a bit of a special case and we don't expect a pandemic to come back any time soon.

stereax

Jim Hyla
If they're in Juniors and aren't getting playing time, the chance of being recruited, except for circumstances like injuries, must be very low.

Or covid. Wasn't Psenicka's story a bit that he barely played for two years before Cornell? But that's again a bit of a special case and we don't expect a pandemic to come back any time soon.

Totally agree. Long illnesses are like injuries.

We lost a coach to long Covid, and didn't give up on him. Much to some's regret, I think.

Jim Hyla

BearLover

Jim Hyla

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Many players are recruited before they set foot in the USHL/BCHL. Colleges like Cornell project how the kids will develop. So playing time down the road is not certain.

Yes they for sure are recruited early. But if they don't develop, the process stops. You don't keep recruiting a player who isn't going to make it.

Your post was talking about players who were already in Juniors.

point production in juniors and playing time in college

If they're in Juniors and aren't getting playing time, the chance of being recruited, except for circumstances like injuries, must be very low.

Yeah but we were talking about projecting someone’s ability in college off of their stats in junior. The discussion was agnostic as to the point when they were actually recruited. They could have been recruited in high school or very early on in junior hockey (eg. they just turned 16) and then they don’t end up panning out/getting playing time. Many such cases among Cornell recruits and other schools’ recruits.

BearLover

Jim Hyla

BearLover

Jim Hyla

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Many players are recruited before they set foot in the USHL/BCHL. Colleges like Cornell project how the kids will develop. So playing time down the road is not certain.

Yes they for sure are recruited early. But if they don't develop, the process stops. You don't keep recruiting a player who isn't going to make it.

Your post was talking about players who were already in Juniors.

point production in juniors and playing time in college

If they're in Juniors and aren't getting playing time, the chance of being recruited, except for circumstances like injuries, must be very low.

Yeah but we were talking about projecting someone’s ability in college off of their stats in junior. The discussion was agnostic as to the point when they were actually recruited. They could have been recruited in high school or very early on in junior hockey (eg. they just turned 16) and then they don’t end up panning out/getting playing time. Many such cases among Cornell recruits and other schools’ recruits.

I give up.

Jim Hyla

BearLover

Jim Hyla

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Many players are recruited before they set foot in the USHL/BCHL. Colleges like Cornell project how the kids will develop. So playing time down the road is not certain.

Yes they for sure are recruited early. But if they don't develop, the process stops. You don't keep recruiting a player who isn't going to make it.

Maybe I don’t understand your point, but I think this right here is the point of disagreement. It is not true that “the process stops.” There are many players on Cornell’s current list of commitments who are struggling for playing time or had to change teams to find playing time. That’s just the world of hockey recruiting.

BearLover

Jim Hyla

BearLover

Jim Hyla

abmarks

Jim Hyla

BearLover
Or it could be that lack of production reflects lack of playing time/lack of possession when on the ice.

It's doubtful that any player with a lack of playing time, excluding due to injury, would be recruited.

Recruited without playing time would seem to imply that our coaches see something that their coaches don't.

We could get a commit who gets loads of ice at the time, but fast forward 2 years and he's in the bchl and playing on the 4th line.

There's always that few percent chance.

But that doesn't change the main point.

Remember I said doubtful, not never.

(And if that happened, it's likely we had already told him that we 're not interested.)

Many players are recruited before they set foot in the USHL/BCHL. Colleges like Cornell project how the kids will develop. So playing time down the road is not certain.

Yes they for sure are recruited early. But if they don't develop, the process stops. You don't keep recruiting a player who isn't going to make it.

Maybe I don’t understand your point, but I think this right here is the point of disagreement. It is not true that “the process stops.” There are many players on Cornell’s current list of commitments who are struggling for playing time or had to change teams to find playing time. That’s just the world of hockey recruiting.

Mass exodus of talent this year, particularly now with Bancroft leaving. Only 2 of the top 7 scorers on this year’s team remain. Bancroft leaving is really a kick in the balls. And we still need a goalie. The hope lies in the portal or a miracle late recruit from the CHL (plausible on the former, highly doubtful on the latter).

With Michael Fisher transferring in we basically have our D set for next year at least, assuming everyone stays healthy.

Need a goalie and probably need a forward now.

What is rough about this situation is that next year would typically be a rebuilding year with so much talent graduating and no obvious #1 goalie, but it’s also likely the last year we have Walsh and Castagna, so things do not line up.

If nobody else leaves early, here is what our roster currently looks like for next year:

G: Keopple, Katz, Roest* (3)
D: Robertson, Stanley, Fegaras, Veilleux*, Fisher*, Wolfenberg, O’Brien, Gorski*, Mosko, McCrady* (10)
F: Walsh, Castagna, Major, Devlin, DeSantis, Kraft, Long*, Pirtle*, DiGiulian*, Wallace, Catalano, Pelletier*, Hiscock*, Donaldson, Murray (15)

* denotes new addition

Bancroft leaving is extremely painful, as now we really need another forward. We also don’t know who the starting goalie is supposed to be.

Next year’s team is going to be very freshman-heavy, with few seniors. Probably another year we need to win the ECAC tournament to get in. Fortunately, the ECAC is looking very weak again, with the exception of Quinnipiac.

The remaining flight risk is Walsh. If he leaves, it’s sayonara, 2025-26 season.

BearLover
If nobody else leaves early, here is what our roster currently looks like for next year:

G: Keopple, Katz, Roest* (3)
D: Robertson, Stanley, Fegaras, Veilleux*, Fisher*, Wolfenberg, O’Brien, Gorski*, Mosko, McCrady* (10)
F: Walsh, Castagna, Major, Devlin, DeSantis, Kraft, Long*, Pirtle*, DiGiulian*, Wallace, Catalano, Pelletier*, Hiscock*, Donaldson, Murray (15)

* denotes new addition

Bancroft leaving is extremely painful, as now we really need another forward. We also don’t know who the starting goalie is supposed to be.

Next year’s team is going to be very freshman-heavy, with few seniors. Probably another year we need to win the ECAC tournament to get in. Fortunately, the ECAC is looking very weak again, with the exception of Quinnipiac.

The remaining flight risk is Walsh. If he leaves, it’s sayonara, 2025-26 season.

I'd be wary of making any predictions. In 2021-22, we relied heavily on the freshman class that is now leaving. It wasn't the best year in terms of how it ended (lost two out of three at home vs Colgate in the ECAC QF), but we went 18-10-4 and were about as good as we were the last two years save for the postseason.

If the incoming class steps up, we could compete.

Dafatone

BearLover
If nobody else leaves early, here is what our roster currently looks like for next year:

G: Keopple, Katz, Roest* (3)
D: Robertson, Stanley, Fegaras, Veilleux*, Fisher*, Wolfenberg, O’Brien, Gorski*, Mosko, McCrady* (10)
F: Walsh, Castagna, Major, Devlin, DeSantis, Kraft, Long*, Pirtle*, DiGiulian*, Wallace, Catalano, Pelletier*, Hiscock*, Donaldson, Murray (15)

* denotes new addition

Bancroft leaving is extremely painful, as now we really need another forward. We also don’t know who the starting goalie is supposed to be.

Next year’s team is going to be very freshman-heavy, with few seniors. Probably another year we need to win the ECAC tournament to get in. Fortunately, the ECAC is looking very weak again, with the exception of Quinnipiac.

The remaining flight risk is Walsh. If he leaves, it’s sayonara, 2025-26 season.

I'd be wary of making any predictions. In 2021-22, we relied heavily on the freshman class that is now leaving. It wasn't the best year in terms of how it ended (lost two out of three at home vs Colgate in the ECAC QF), but we went 18-10-4 and were about as good as we were the last two years save for the postseason.

If the incoming class steps up, we could compete.

Sorry to nitpick, but I don’t think this is quite right.

We won a ton of games in OT that year. So the 18 wins is misleading. More like 14 wins.

Also, in 2023-24 we were very competitive for an at-large bid. In 2021-22 we were not. 2021-22’s regular season was similar to this year’s, yes. But this year’s team went on a miracle run to the league championship.

I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere but Fisher was a 3rd round draft choice of San Jose in the 2022 draft, which I know will be thrilling news for certain people on this forum.

Here's a report from Dobber Prospects in 2022:

Fisher spent his entire 2021-2022 campaign with St. Mark’s in the high school prep circuit, where he finished second on his team in scoring as a defenseman with 13 goals and 37 assists for 50 points in only 28 games. The prospect has already committed to Northeastern University for the 2022-2023 campaign, where he’ll be continuing his development against legitimate competition, on a team known for developing their blue-liners’ chance-suppressing tendencies.

Fisher is electrifying on the puck, utilizing a variety of fakes to carry the puck up the ice. He’s daring, manipulative, and shows a wide arsenal of puck skills which he pulls out at the right times to make an impact in all three zones. Off the puck, there are some concerns, such as his tendency to lose a marker or struggle to close gaps quickly. This isn’t as apparent against teenagers in high school, but I expect him to have a tough first year with Northeastern as he learns to do these things on a more regular basis. He should adapt quickly, however, as his hockey sense is clearly above-average and he got better as his season went on. A team could take a swing at him as early as the start of the second round, especially if they have a hole on the right side of their defensive pipeline and don’t mind a long-term project. He could be a top pair defender, or not make the NHL; it all depends on what the next few years of his development look like. Hadi Kalakeche

BearLover

Dafatone

BearLover
If nobody else leaves early, here is what our roster currently looks like for next year:

G: Keopple, Katz, Roest* (3)
D: Robertson, Stanley, Fegaras, Veilleux*, Fisher*, Wolfenberg, O’Brien, Gorski*, Mosko, McCrady* (10)
F: Walsh, Castagna, Major, Devlin, DeSantis, Kraft, Long*, Pirtle*, DiGiulian*, Wallace, Catalano, Pelletier*, Hiscock*, Donaldson, Murray (15)

* denotes new addition

Bancroft leaving is extremely painful, as now we really need another forward. We also don’t know who the starting goalie is supposed to be.

Next year’s team is going to be very freshman-heavy, with few seniors. Probably another year we need to win the ECAC tournament to get in. Fortunately, the ECAC is looking very weak again, with the exception of Quinnipiac.

The remaining flight risk is Walsh. If he leaves, it’s sayonara, 2025-26 season.

I'd be wary of making any predictions. In 2021-22, we relied heavily on the freshman class that is now leaving. It wasn't the best year in terms of how it ended (lost two out of three at home vs Colgate in the ECAC QF), but we went 18-10-4 and were about as good as we were the last two years save for the postseason.

If the incoming class steps up, we could compete.

Sorry to nitpick, but I don’t think this is quite right.

We won a ton of games in OT that year. So the 18 wins is misleading. More like 14 wins.

Also, in 2023-24 we were very competitive for an at-large bid. In 2021-22 we were not. 2021-22’s regular season was similar to this year’s, yes. But this year’s team went on a miracle run to the league championship.

Looking up pairwise rankings on specific dates in those seasons is kind of a chore, but my memory is that we went into the ECAC postseason in 2023-24 somewhat on the outside looking in, then ran the table. And 2021-22 we were in the running until we lost in the quarters.

I bet if you swapped those postseasons and we lost 2 out of 3 in 2023-24, we wouldn't have made it. And had we run the table in 2021-22, we would have been in by pairwise regardless of the autobid. But this is based on memory, which is fickle.

Dafatone

BearLover

Dafatone

BearLover
If nobody else leaves early, here is what our roster currently looks like for next year:

G: Keopple, Katz, Roest* (3)
D: Robertson, Stanley, Fegaras, Veilleux*, Fisher*, Wolfenberg, O’Brien, Gorski*, Mosko, McCrady* (10)
F: Walsh, Castagna, Major, Devlin, DeSantis, Kraft, Long*, Pirtle*, DiGiulian*, Wallace, Catalano, Pelletier*, Hiscock*, Donaldson, Murray (15)

* denotes new addition

Bancroft leaving is extremely painful, as now we really need another forward. We also don’t know who the starting goalie is supposed to be.

Next year’s team is going to be very freshman-heavy, with few seniors. Probably another year we need to win the ECAC tournament to get in. Fortunately, the ECAC is looking very weak again, with the exception of Quinnipiac.

The remaining flight risk is Walsh. If he leaves, it’s sayonara, 2025-26 season.

I'd be wary of making any predictions. In 2021-22, we relied heavily on the freshman class that is now leaving. It wasn't the best year in terms of how it ended (lost two out of three at home vs Colgate in the ECAC QF), but we went 18-10-4 and were about as good as we were the last two years save for the postseason.

If the incoming class steps up, we could compete.

Sorry to nitpick, but I don’t think this is quite right.

We won a ton of games in OT that year. So the 18 wins is misleading. More like 14 wins.

Also, in 2023-24 we were very competitive for an at-large bid. In 2021-22 we were not. 2021-22’s regular season was similar to this year’s, yes. But this year’s team went on a miracle run to the league championship.

Looking up pairwise rankings on specific dates in those seasons is kind of a chore, but my memory is that we went into the ECAC postseason in 2023-24 somewhat on the outside looking in, then ran the table. And 2021-22 we were in the running until we lost in the quarters.

I bet if you swapped those postseasons and we lost 2 out of 3 in 2023-24, we wouldn't have made it. And had we run the table in 2021-22, we would have been in by pairwise regardless of the autobid. But this is based on memory, which is fickle.

By the time the postseason came around in 2021-22, we had long been locked out of an at-large. In 2023-24, things were looking good for an at-large down the stretch (I remember you, or at least I think it was you, making the point that we would have a great shot if the RPI cutoff were at .54 like most years, but it was around .56 that year). But we had a rough end to that regular season and ended up heading into the ECAC tournament with a slim chance at an at-large. I think if we had lost in the finals of the ECAC, we would have been like 14th in the PWR and the first team out.

scoop85
I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere but Fisher was a 3rd round draft choice of San Jose in the 2022 draft, which I know will be thrilling news for certain people on this forum.

Here's a report from Dobber Prospects in 2022:

Fisher spent his entire 2021-2022 campaign with St. Mark’s in the high school prep circuit, where he finished second on his team in scoring as a defenseman with 13 goals and 37 assists for 50 points in only 28 games. The prospect has already committed to Northeastern University for the 2022-2023 campaign, where he’ll be continuing his development against legitimate competition, on a team known for developing their blue-liners’ chance-suppressing tendencies.

Fisher is electrifying on the puck, utilizing a variety of fakes to carry the puck up the ice. He’s daring, manipulative, and shows a wide arsenal of puck skills which he pulls out at the right times to make an impact in all three zones. Off the puck, there are some concerns, such as his tendency to lose a marker or struggle to close gaps quickly. This isn’t as apparent against teenagers in high school, but I expect him to have a tough first year with Northeastern as he learns to do these things on a more regular basis. He should adapt quickly, however, as his hockey sense is clearly above-average and he got better as his season went on. A team could take a swing at him as early as the start of the second round, especially if they have a hole on the right side of their defensive pipeline and don’t mind a long-term project. He could be a top pair defender, or not make the NHL; it all depends on what the next few years of his development look like. Hadi Kalakeche

Also of note is that Fisher had flipped to Northeastern from Princeton prior to going to the USHL, where he played just 14 games for Youngstown. His one season at Northeastern he was a -9, so hopefully he's worked on some things at Petincton; there's no =/- listed on that team's website, but they are the top team in that league, so I would hope he's well in the plus territory. He'll be coming in as a 21-year-old, so he should be ready to contribute from the get go.

BearLover

Dafatone

BearLover

Dafatone

BearLover
If nobody else leaves early, here is what our roster currently looks like for next year:

G: Keopple, Katz, Roest* (3)
D: Robertson, Stanley, Fegaras, Veilleux*, Fisher*, Wolfenberg, O’Brien, Gorski*, Mosko, McCrady* (10)
F: Walsh, Castagna, Major, Devlin, DeSantis, Kraft, Long*, Pirtle*, DiGiulian*, Wallace, Catalano, Pelletier*, Hiscock*, Donaldson, Murray (15)

* denotes new addition

Bancroft leaving is extremely painful, as now we really need another forward. We also don’t know who the starting goalie is supposed to be.

Next year’s team is going to be very freshman-heavy, with few seniors. Probably another year we need to win the ECAC tournament to get in. Fortunately, the ECAC is looking very weak again, with the exception of Quinnipiac.

The remaining flight risk is Walsh. If he leaves, it’s sayonara, 2025-26 season.

I'd be wary of making any predictions. In 2021-22, we relied heavily on the freshman class that is now leaving. It wasn't the best year in terms of how it ended (lost two out of three at home vs Colgate in the ECAC QF), but we went 18-10-4 and were about as good as we were the last two years save for the postseason.

If the incoming class steps up, we could compete.

Sorry to nitpick, but I don’t think this is quite right.

We won a ton of games in OT that year. So the 18 wins is misleading. More like 14 wins.

Also, in 2023-24 we were very competitive for an at-large bid. In 2021-22 we were not. 2021-22’s regular season was similar to this year’s, yes. But this year’s team went on a miracle run to the league championship.

Looking up pairwise rankings on specific dates in those seasons is kind of a chore, but my memory is that we went into the ECAC postseason in 2023-24 somewhat on the outside looking in, then ran the table. And 2021-22 we were in the running until we lost in the quarters.

I bet if you swapped those postseasons and we lost 2 out of 3 in 2023-24, we wouldn't have made it. And had we run the table in 2021-22, we would have been in by pairwise regardless of the autobid. But this is based on memory, which is fickle.

By the time the postseason came around in 2021-22, we had long been locked out of an at-large. In 2023-24, things were looking good for an at-large down the stretch (I remember you, or at least I think it was you, making the point that we would have a great shot if the RPI cutoff were at .54 like most years, but it was around .56 that year). But we had a rough end to that regular season and ended up heading into the ECAC tournament with a slim chance at an at-large. I think if we had lost in the finals of the ECAC, we would have been like 14th in the PWR and the first team out.

Yeah, that was me going on about the RPI cutoff. Like I said, fickle memory. I remember 2021-22 being a year that felt pretty good most of the season and kind of just faded, but maybe some of that mood was simply joy at having hockey again.

scoop85
I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere but Fisher was a 3rd round draft choice of San Jose in the 2022 draft, which I know will be thrilling news for certain people on this forum.

As this is a thinly veiled swipe at me, I will clarify my view, which is that I believe draft picks are generally a very strong proxy for talent and recruiting, though obviously not foolproof. Fisher is far from the typical drafted recruit. He was drafted a full three years ago and already spent a year in college. Injuries have thus far derailed his career. So I don’t really view this as similar at all to taking an 18- or 19-year-old draftee. Seems high upside though and I’m glad we got him.

BearLover

scoop85
I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere but Fisher was a 3rd round draft choice of San Jose in the 2022 draft, which I know will be thrilling news for certain people on this forum.

As this is a thinly veiled swipe at me, I will clarify my view, which is that I believe draft picks are generally a very strong proxy for talent and recruiting, though obviously not foolproof. Fisher is far from the typical drafted recruit. He was drafted a full three years ago and already spent a year in college. Injuries have thus far derailed his career. So I don’t really view this as similar at all to taking an 18- or 19-year-old draftee. Seems high upside though and I’m glad we got him.

Might be a note on me, too - I tend to get a little more excited about draft picks, haha. Third round is relatively high for Cornell, Sharks are an org I keep tabs on too, so this actually makes me pretty happy

Will fisher come in as a sophomore? Only played the one year at Northeastern.

I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

Any idea if fisher will be a junior or sophomore?

arugula
Any idea if fisher will be a junior or sophomore?

I would assume sophomore for hockey purposes, as he only did one year of college.

Will

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

We had somebody go back. Cairns? I can't remember.

Trotsky

Will

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Possibly Justin Ertel?

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

We had somebody go back. Cairns? I can't remember.

stereax

arugula
Any idea if fisher will be a junior or sophomore?

I would assume sophomore for hockey purposes, as he only did one year of college.

Hope so. Looks like some upside there. Strong blue line potential with Robertson, Stanley, Fegeras

Dafatone

Trotsky

Will

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Possibly Justin Ertel?

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

We had somebody go back. Cairns? I can't remember.

Not sure how I managed to misplace "possibly Justin Ertel?"

Trotsky

Will

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

We had somebody go back. Cairns? I can't remember.

Troy Davenport.

Trotsky

Will

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

We had somebody go back. Cairns? I can't remember.

I believe Clint Lewis went back before going to Minnesota State(?)

Trotsky

Will

stereax

chimpfood
I think Caron Ryan might come in a year early. We need a center and I don’t think any of our other recruits coming this year are, and he’s put up good numbers in the BCHL. By the way, where did you guys hear about fisher?

The Vees posted about it here.

Weird ass development path tho. Full year at Northeastern and then full year in the BCHL.

It's unusual, but not unheard of. Sometimes players do a year in Division I, but something isn't quite right (maybe he thought he should be doing better than 1-1-2 in 29 games at Northeastern?) so they return to juniors for a year before coming back to Division I, often at a different school. I would say this path was more common before the transfer portal, as back then players would have to sit for a year if they wanted to transfer schools.

We had somebody go back. Cairns? I can't remember.

Gavin Stoick returned to the USHL after his Fr year and then returned.

ithacat
Gavin Stoick returned to the USHL after his Fr year and then returned.

This is who I meant. Thank you.

Fun fact: Gavin played for the Vail Yeti this year.

Dafatone
Looking up pairwise rankings on specific dates in those seasons is kind of a chore

how so?

adamw

Dafatone
Looking up pairwise rankings on specific dates in those seasons is kind of a chore

how so?

Full disclosure: I did not do my due diligence before saying that. Looks easy on the chn mobile version of the pairwise.

That being said, I'd still have to look up which dates are relevant and then plug them in.

Dafatone

adamw

Dafatone
Looking up pairwise rankings on specific dates in those seasons is kind of a chore

how so?

Full disclosure: I did not do my due diligence before saying that. Looks easy on the chn mobile version of the pairwise.

That being said, I'd still have to look up which dates are relevant and then plug them in.

just trying to make sure I didn't miss anything that could make it easier.

We flipped Lily Pachl [women's] from Sucks!!!

Link.

Will come in for '25.

stereax
We flipped Lily Pachl [women's] from Sucks!!!

Link.

Will come in for '25.

She was a semifinalist for the Ms. Hockey Award in Minnesota, so she must be pretty good!

dbilmes

stereax
We flipped Lily Pachl [women's] from Sucks!!!

Link.

Will come in for '25.

She was a semifinalist for the Ms. Hockey Award in Minnesota, so she must be pretty good!

Looks like a nice additon! For context, Izzy Daniel and Lily Delianedis were Ms. Hockey finalists in Minnesota, and Joie Phelps from a few years back was a Ms. Hockey semifinalist.

With Bancroft and Robertson gone (at minimum), unless Casey can pull off some miracles in the portal (highly doubtful), this team is headed for a down period. I’m really sad that we went 0-for-3 in the regional final the past three seasons because it feels like it will be a long time before we get another chance.

Even before these departures, things were already looking tough because other teams like Clarkson and Quinnipiac were taking aging-out CHL players for next year. Cornell can recruit younger CHL players, but it seems unlikely any of the aging-out ones would come here as I assume most of them haven’t even taken the necessary academic exams/requirements. So it was already going to be a transition for a few years, and that transition is now quickly becoming a full-blown rebuild.

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

I’m going to take a step back from following this team, I really hope we can remain nationally competitive but things are trending in a very bad direction now. Hutson’s OT winner feels like a real sliding doors moment in the history of Cornell hockey, ugh.

BearLover
With Bancroft and Robertson gone (at minimum), unless Casey can pull off some miracles in the portal (highly doubtful), this team is headed for a down period. I’m really sad that we went 0-for-3 in the regional final the past three seasons because it feels like it will be a long time before we get another chance.

Even before these departures, things were already looking tough because other teams like Clarkson and Quinnipiac were taking aging-out CHL players for next year. Cornell can recruit younger CHL players, but it seems unlikely any of the aging-out ones would come here as I assume most of them haven’t even taken the necessary academic exams/requirements. So it was already going to be a transition for a few years, and that transition is now quickly becoming a full-blown rebuild.

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

I’m going to take a step back from following this team, I really hope we can remain nationally competitive but things are trending in a very bad direction now. Hutson’s OT winner feels like a real sliding doors moment in the history of Cornell hockey, ugh.

Please take several steps back and spare us the perceived grief you can't seem to stop wallowing in. And think hard about getting a real life.

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

I thought Leahy was in the same boat as Green, Donaldson, Barron, and others in that class year due to COVID

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Ben Tupker, much more recently.

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Not counting those who transferred out during the canceled season. Also, I believe Regush and Leahy graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Beeeej

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Ben Tupker, much more recently.

He graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Al DeFlorio

BearLover
With Bancroft and Robertson gone (at minimum), unless Casey can pull off some miracles in the portal (highly doubtful), this team is headed for a down period. I’m really sad that we went 0-for-3 in the regional final the past three seasons because it feels like it will be a long time before we get another chance.

Even before these departures, things were already looking tough because other teams like Clarkson and Quinnipiac were taking aging-out CHL players for next year. Cornell can recruit younger CHL players, but it seems unlikely any of the aging-out ones would come here as I assume most of them haven’t even taken the necessary academic exams/requirements. So it was already going to be a transition for a few years, and that transition is now quickly becoming a full-blown rebuild.

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

I’m going to take a step back from following this team, I really hope we can remain nationally competitive but things are trending in a very bad direction now. Hutson’s OT winner feels like a real sliding doors moment in the history of Cornell hockey, ugh.

Please take several steps back and spare us the perceived grief you can't seem to stop wallowing in. And think hard about getting a real life.

Don’t you have some football playcalling to complain about?

BearLover

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Not counting those who transferred out during the canceled season. Also, I believe Regush and Leahy graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Regush transfered after his junior year (the COVID season). He was a senior at Miami Ohio, not a grad student. And yup: Ben Tupker is also in the same boat.

BearLover

Beeeej

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Ben Tupker, much more recently.

He graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Really? He graduated from Cornell after his junior year and yet still had two more years of eligibility at Union?

Beeeej

BearLover

Beeeej

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Ben Tupker, much more recently.

He graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Really? He graduated from Cornell after his junior year and yet still had two more years of eligibility at Union?

Correct. Says so right on his LinkedIn page.

sah67

BearLover

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Not counting those who transferred out during the canceled season. Also, I believe Regush and Leahy graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Regush transfered after his junior year (the COVID season). He was a senior at Miami Ohio, not a grad student. And yup: Ben Tupker is also in the same boat.

Incorrect. Both Regush and Tupker graduated from Cornell. Says so right on their LinkedIn pages. Regush attended Miami for his master’s degree in accounting. Tupker graduated from ILR and then went to Union for a graduate degree in economics.

BearLover

sah67

BearLover

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Not counting those who transferred out during the canceled season. Also, I believe Regush and Leahy graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Regush transfered after his junior year (the COVID season). He was a senior at Miami Ohio, not a grad student. And yup: Ben Tupker is also in the same boat.

Incorrect. Both Regush and Tupker graduated from Cornell. Says so right on their LinkedIn pages. Regush attended Miami for his master’s degree in accounting. Tupker graduated from ILR and then went to Union for a graduate degree in economics.

I'm sure I knew that at some point, but I apparently forgot. Carry on.

At least we know Schafer was serious about the team's academic performance if all these players were completing their degrees after 3 years.

Point is they could have stayed for 4 years and didn’t. People graduate in 3 for a reason. The graduating vs non graduating isn’t really the main factor to discuss here

Big Dingus
Point is they could have stayed for 4 years and didn’t. People graduate in 3 for a reason. The graduating vs non graduating isn’t really the main factor to discuss here

They almost certainly would have stayed for four years if not for COVID, though. There was extreme uncertainty when/if the Ivies would go back to playing hockey, so these players accelerated their coursework and graduated early.

Not completely sure about that - but I agree COVID was a main driver of it

Even forgetting NIL issues for a moment, keep in mind that if Robertson or others don't qualify based on family income for full grant coverage for their Cornell tuition, there are plenty of good options where they can go on full scholarship. The fact this has happened so rarely in the past is a tribute to the program's culture. But we're seeing this change for the worse across all D1 athletics, and it's something we'll need to expect more of. As but an extreme example, I saw the current Tulane QB who just transferred in (and is in some legal hot water) is now at his 5TH college; I'm sure he's highly focused on his academic career

scoop85
Even forgetting NIL issues for a moment, keep in mind that if Robertson or others don't qualify based on family income for full grant coverage for their Cornell tuition, there are plenty of good options where they can go on full scholarship. The fact this has happened so rarely in the past is a tribute to the program's culture. But we're seeing this change for the worse across all D1 athletics, and it's something we'll need to expect more of. As but an extreme example, I saw the current Tulane QB who just transferred in (and is in some legal hot water) is now at his 5TH college; I'm sure he's highly focused on his academic career

Though it’s true this is happening elsewhere, it needs to be said that if it happens to Cornell hockey, we will cease to be nationally competitive. What’s held this program together the last few years has been guys not transferring out/leaving early even though those options were on the table.

BearLover
Incorrect. Both Regush and Tupker graduated from Cornell. Says so right on their LinkedIn pages. Regush attended Miami for his master’s degree in accounting. Tupker graduated from ILR and then went to Union for a graduate degree in economics.

This is something Regush could have done at Cornell, but as others have said or implied, a lot of it came down to COVID and uncertainty about whether the Ivys and many other schools were even going to participate in sports or allow grad student athletes

And it also came to them not wanting to stay the full four years or take a fifth year

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

Trotsky

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

i think it historically has been about how the ivy league wants to incorporate athletics into the larger academic picture. it is intentionally indifferent to whether it affects competitiveness at the national level. i'm not making a value judgment about it but the people who created the rule certainly were. given the increasing profile of college sports, and the ivies very clearly being intentional about wanting to be competitive in the current landscape, it will be interesting to see how the irresistable force of tradition takes on the immovable object of capitalism.

ugarte

Trotsky

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

i think it historically has been about how the ivy league wants to incorporate athletics into the larger academic picture. it is intentionally indifferent to whether it affects competitiveness at the national level. i'm not making a value judgment about it but the people who created the rule certainly were. given the increasing profile of college sports, and the ivies very clearly being intentional about wanting to be competitive in the current landscape, it will be interesting to see how the irresistable force of tradition takes on the immovable object of capitalism.

This is thread drift adjacent but this former penn basketball player has thoughts about the ivy league taking itself out of contention. [www.thedp.com]

ugarte

Trotsky

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

i think it historically has been about how the ivy league wants to incorporate athletics into the larger academic picture. it is intentionally indifferent to whether it affects competitiveness at the national level. i'm not making a value judgment about it but the people who created the rule certainly were. given the increasing profile of college sports, and the ivies very clearly being intentional about wanting to be competitive in the current landscape, it will be interesting to see how the irresistable force of tradition takes on the immovable object of capitalism.

Have you been following the news? Columbia, Harvard, Penn can hardly raise the white flag fast enough.

Swampy

ugarte

Trotsky

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

i think it historically has been about how the ivy league wants to incorporate athletics into the larger academic picture. it is intentionally indifferent to whether it affects competitiveness at the national level. i'm not making a value judgment about it but the people who created the rule certainly were. given the increasing profile of college sports, and the ivies very clearly being intentional about wanting to be competitive in the current landscape, it will be interesting to see how the irresistable force of tradition takes on the immovable object of capitalism.

Have you been following the news? Columbia, Harvard, Penn can hardly raise the white flag fast enough.

i know that they are similar but the venn diagram of fascism and capitalism aren't a *perfect* circle

Chris '03

ugarte

Trotsky

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

i think it historically has been about how the ivy league wants to incorporate athletics into the larger academic picture. it is intentionally indifferent to whether it affects competitiveness at the national level. i'm not making a value judgment about it but the people who created the rule certainly were. given the increasing profile of college sports, and the ivies very clearly being intentional about wanting to be competitive in the current landscape, it will be interesting to see how the irresistable force of tradition takes on the immovable object of capitalism.

This is thread drift adjacent but this former penn basketball player has thoughts about the ivy league taking itself out of contention. [www.thedp.com]

Not that this is original thinking, but it seems apparent that it will be increasingly difficult to the Ivies to maintain D1 level competitiveness in basketball and hockey as pay to play takes over as the prevailing model. The only way to have a chance to avoid that trend will be for the Ivies to at least some semblance of NIL policies that can help lure and retain D1 quality athletes. I don’t get a sense that the Ivy leadership in inclined to take that path.

Beeeej

BearLover

sah67

BearLover

sah67

BearLover

I’m also really worried about Robertson’s decision setting a precedent for non-graduates transferring out, which never happened at all under Schafer.

Justin Milo, Mike Regush, Joe Leahy...I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment.

Not counting those who transferred out during the canceled season. Also, I believe Regush and Leahy graduated. I said “non-graduate.”

Regush transfered after his junior year (the COVID season). He was a senior at Miami Ohio, not a grad student. And yup: Ben Tupker is also in the same boat.

Incorrect. Both Regush and Tupker graduated from Cornell. Says so right on their LinkedIn pages. Regush attended Miami for his master’s degree in accounting. Tupker graduated from ILR and then went to Union for a graduate degree in economics.

I'm sure I knew that at some point, but I apparently forgot. Carry on.

I wonder whether any of the accelerated graduations were aided by credits earned while playing in the USHL after graduating from high school.

Senor Ugarte — I was fast clicking through this oh-yeah=sez-you thread, then you crashed the party and made a common-sense point. Gad, so jarring.

billhoward
Senor Ugarte — I was fast clicking through this oh-yeah=sez-you thread, then you crashed the party and made a common-sense point. Gad, so jarring.

i apologize it won't happen again

Jesus. Trotsky realizing he's not the most deeply cynical person in a thread for once:

I think the Ivies may eventually "do the right thing after exhausting all other possibilities." The grad student restriction is even more pathetically stupid Dignity Theatre than what we usually do to burnish the Pick Me academia knob, so they may quietly let it expire.

That we ever grow up enough to fully separate students from revenue-generating circus performers is unlikely -- the payoff is too high. But it's an uncomfortable world being less hypocritical than Alabama.

Trotsky
Jesus. Trotsky realizing he's not the most deeply cynical person in a thread for once:

I think the Ivies may eventually "do the right thing after exhausting all other possibilities." The grad student restriction is even more pathetically stupid Dignity Theatre than what we usually do to burnish the Pick Me academia knob, so they may quietly let it expire.

Ivy football is finally, begrudgingly, allowing its champ to participate in the FCS (Div. I-AA) playoffs, starting with the 2025 season. It only took 47 years, so yeah, there's hope.

with budget cuts who knows whats sports will be left

ugarte

Swampy

ugarte

Trotsky

Iceberg
allow grad student athletes

What is the given rationale for this Ivy rule, BTW? I mean, I get that everything we do is to polish the snobbery discriminator that makes idiots in Mineola pay 5x the tuition for an undergrad business degree they could get at SUNY, but why do we shoot ourselves in the dick on graduate students of all people? They are, by definition, good scholars. I think it actually works against the brand to so publicly fuck them.

i think it historically has been about how the ivy league wants to incorporate athletics into the larger academic picture. it is intentionally indifferent to whether it affects competitiveness at the national level. i'm not making a value judgment about it but the people who created the rule certainly were. given the increasing profile of college sports, and the ivies very clearly being intentional about wanting to be competitive in the current landscape, it will be interesting to see how the irresistable force of tradition takes on the immovable object of capitalism.

Have you been following the news? Columbia, Harvard, Penn can hardly raise the white flag fast enough.

i know that they are similar but the venn diagram of fascism and capitalism aren't a *perfect* circle

Add in malignant narcisism, and you get pretty close.