Polls
Posted by ugarte
Re: Polls
Posted by: abmarks (---.mycingular.net)
Date: January 12, 2023 07:54PM
osorojo
Swampy: I'll let you borrow MY Aunt Beulah for a couple of predictions, you lucky dog. Don't worry about kickback from cranky posters. They aren't any better at predicting hockey game winners than my Aunt Beulah. [Maybe that's why they're so cranky?]
Trotsky
OK, I'm convinced. Somebody has put an AI/ML project here to pass the Turing Test.
It's the Townhall cadence and Ben Garrison humoriness that gave it away.
I tried. Chatgpt didn't help me respond to oso...
"I am a language model AI and I do not have the ability to predict any hockey games, neither I can borrow physical entities such as your Aunt Beulah or get kickback or interact with people or posters. My main function is to assist users in providing information, answering questions and generating human-like text based on the input provided to me."
Re: Polls
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 12, 2023 09:50PM
osorojo
What criteria are used to construct college hockey rankings, and which ranking system has most successfully predicted the winners of contests between ranked teams?
GPTZero
Your sentence with the highest perplexity is:
What criteria are used to construct college hockey rankings, and which ranking system has most successfully predicted the winners of contests between ranked teams?
It has a perplexity of:
76
GPTZero has finished analyzing your text!
Your GPTZero score corresponds to the likelihood of the text being AI generated:
More data may be needed to determine if your text is human or AI generated. Try inputting more text.
Re: Polls
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 12, 2023 09:55PM
marty
osorojo
What criteria are used to construct college hockey rankings, and which ranking system has most successfully predicted the winners of contests between ranked teams?
GPTZero
Your sentence with the highest perplexity is:
What criteria are used to construct college hockey rankings, and which ranking system has most successfully predicted the winners of contests between ranked teams?
It has a perplexity of:
76
GPTZero has finished analyzing your text!
Your GPTZero score corresponds to the likelihood of the text being AI generated:
More data may be needed to determine if your text is human or AI generated. Try inputting more text.
There is also another similar site.
Re: Polls
Posted by: osorojo (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 14, 2023 04:00PM
Thanks, for your your response to my question, Marty. Your explanation leaves little doubt about the methodology or accuracy of college hockey rankings.
Re: Polls
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: January 15, 2023 09:26PM
Trotsky
osorojo
If current rating systems are no better at predicting outcomes of upcoming hockey games than my Aunt Beulah is why not dig a hole, cover it with leaves and grass, and TRAP someone to predict outcomes of upcoming college hockey games?
If by rating we mean PWR, RPICH, KRACH, the intent is to measure teams' relative prior performance to assess where they should be ranked for NC$$ selection. NC$$ hockey has a problem: there are tight sets with extremely good relative rankings (the conferences) but then only loose bounds between the sets, making relative ranking of members of different sets difficult. Metrics like PWR are an attempt to normalize all members against a common baseline. They are similar to the sabermetrics that attempt to adjust for differences in ballpark effects or era effects in MLB.
But those assessments only imply potential predictive likelihoods of future events. One would assume a team ranked higher in the metric will, on balance, beat a team ranked lower over a sufficiently large sample, but particularly in single elimination playoffs you get one data point, so at best you are talking about a probability function. There is also not great confidence that prior results will predict future outcomes because team composition changes with injuries, and teams themselves tend to become better (or worse) as the season goes on.
It's the littany of reasons why social science correlation coefficients tend to be a lot lower than natural science. It's the nature of working with humans and not leptons, and of complex systems rather than simple machines.
You can analyze a bunch of predictions, though, and see if events you assigned a 60% probability to really happened 60% of the time. E.g., FiveThirtyEight does this to check their election forecasts. I wrote a paper (with Adam as a co-author) that, among other things, showed that using KRACH to assign probabilities for playoff games produced better predictions than cooking up a probability from the winning percentages, which in turn out-performed just calling every game a tossup: [arxiv.org]
Re: Polls
Posted by: osorojo (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 18, 2023 03:21PM
Declarative statements about future events can only imagine the likelihood of such events. Would-be sports gurus both professional and on-line, in print or in taverns, are chronic losers.
Neither your moving finger nor your wit will make you a seer or a winner - only a guesser. Soup kitchens are packed with living proof.
Neither your moving finger nor your wit will make you a seer or a winner - only a guesser. Soup kitchens are packed with living proof.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (198.232.62.---)
Date: January 18, 2023 03:28PM
Thank you.osorojo
Declarative statements about future events can only imagine the likelihood of such events. Would-be sports gurus both professional and on-line, in print or in taverns, are chronic losers.
Neither your moving finger nor your wit will make you a seer or a winner - only a guesser. Soup kitchens are packed with living proof.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Dunc (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: January 18, 2023 08:49PM
osorojo
Declarative statements about future events can only imagine the likelihood of such events. Would-be sports gurus both professional and on-line, in print or in taverns, are chronic losers.
Neither your moving finger nor your wit will make you a seer or a winner - only a guesser. Soup kitchens are packed with living proof.
inspiring. osorojo for president
Re: Polls
Posted by: JasonN95 (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: January 23, 2023 04:01PM
Cornell up to 11th in 1/23/23 USCHO poll. Has me wondering where the team would be ranked if it had gotten a tie at BU seeing BU with some first place votes. I thought Q would drop a bit further than 3rd.
Re: Polls
Posted by: billhoward (---.ph.ph.cox.net)
Date: January 24, 2023 11:29PM
Might Q only have fallen to #2 if they hadn't blown a 2-0 lead at Colgate and lost 3-2 the day after losing to us?JasonN95
Cornell up to 11th in 1/23/23 USCHO poll. Has me wondering where the team would be ranked if it had gotten a tie at BU seeing BU with some first place votes. I thought Q would drop a bit further than 3rd.
Re: Polls
Posted by: JasonN95 (---.sub-174-204-132.myvzw.com)
Date: January 25, 2023 02:22PM
billhoward
Might Q only have fallen to #2 if they hadn't blown a 2-0 lead at Colgate and lost 3-2 the day after losing to us?JasonN95
Cornell up to 11th in 1/23/23 USCHO poll. Has me wondering where the team would be ranked if it had gotten a tie at BU seeing BU with some first place votes. I thought Q would drop a bit further than 3rd.
I was pulling for Q to beat Colgate. Cornell isnât going to catch Q, but Colgate is nipping at Cornellâs heels. Plus Q losing to Colgate took a bit of the shine off of Cornellâs win.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: January 25, 2023 03:18PM
Cornell is closer to Q (.079) than Colgate (.084) in ECAC winning percentage. Do not give up the 1 seed yet.JasonN95
I was pulling for Q to beat Colgate. Cornell isnât going to catch Q, but Colgate is nipping at Cornellâs heels. Plus Q losing to Colgate took a bit of the shine off of Cornellâs win.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2023 03:18PM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 25, 2023 03:50PM
Colgate winning is good news for Cornell. There is not much of a difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd in the ECAC. The goal is to (1) get a bye and (2) minimize the number of times we have to play Q and/or Harvard during the ECAC tournament. At the moment, (1) looks very likely, so Iâm focusing on (2). A great outcome would be Q as the 1-seed, Cornell and Colgate as the 2-/3-seeds, and Harvard as the 4-seed. Then we wouldnât have to play Q/Harvard until the final.JasonN95
billhoward
Might Q only have fallen to #2 if they hadn't blown a 2-0 lead at Colgate and lost 3-2 the day after losing to us?JasonN95
Cornell up to 11th in 1/23/23 USCHO poll. Has me wondering where the team would be ranked if it had gotten a tie at BU seeing BU with some first place votes. I thought Q would drop a bit further than 3rd.
I was pulling for Q to beat Colgate. Cornell isnât going to catch Q, but Colgate is nipping at Cornellâs heels. Plus Q losing to Colgate took a bit of the shine off of Cornellâs win.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2023 03:51PM by BearLover.
Re: Polls
Posted by: RichH (104.28.39.---)
Date: January 25, 2023 04:52PM
BearLover
Colgate winning is good news for Cornell. There is not much of a difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd in the ECAC. The goal is to (1) get a bye and (2) minimize the number of times we have to play Q and/or Harvard during the ECAC tournament. At the moment, (1) looks very likely, so Iâm focusing on (2). A great outcome would be Q as the 1-seed, Cornell and Colgate as the 2-/3-seeds, and Harvard as the 4-seed. Then we wouldnât have to play Q/Harvard until the final.JasonN95
billhoward
Might Q only have fallen to #2 if they hadn't blown a 2-0 lead at Colgate and lost 3-2 the day after losing to us?JasonN95
Cornell up to 11th in 1/23/23 USCHO poll. Has me wondering where the team would be ranked if it had gotten a tie at BU seeing BU with some first place votes. I thought Q would drop a bit further than 3rd.
I was pulling for Q to beat Colgate. Cornell isnât going to catch Q, but Colgate is nipping at Cornellâs heels. Plus Q losing to Colgate took a bit of the shine off of Cornellâs win.
Only if you assume chalk.
And I have to think that at this point, there are a lot of teams looking at ways to avoid *us* in the playoffs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2023 04:55PM by RichH.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 25, 2023 05:03PM
There are of course a lot of different ways things can go. But there are only two teams in the league that are (IMO) better than us, and if we want to win the ECAC itâs easier if we only have to beat one of them. If Q and Harvard get the 1 and 4 seeds, then we donât have to beat them both. Itâs not the biggest concern in the world, but itâs a tiebreaker when choosing who to root for in in-conference games.RichH
BearLover
Colgate winning is good news for Cornell. There is not much of a difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd in the ECAC. The goal is to (1) get a bye and (2) minimize the number of times we have to play Q and/or Harvard during the ECAC tournament. At the moment, (1) looks very likely, so Iâm focusing on (2). A great outcome would be Q as the 1-seed, Cornell and Colgate as the 2-/3-seeds, and Harvard as the 4-seed. Then we wouldnât have to play Q/Harvard until the final.JasonN95
billhoward
Might Q only have fallen to #2 if they hadn't blown a 2-0 lead at Colgate and lost 3-2 the day after losing to us?JasonN95
Cornell up to 11th in 1/23/23 USCHO poll. Has me wondering where the team would be ranked if it had gotten a tie at BU seeing BU with some first place votes. I thought Q would drop a bit further than 3rd.
I was pulling for Q to beat Colgate. Cornell isnât going to catch Q, but Colgate is nipping at Cornellâs heels. Plus Q losing to Colgate took a bit of the shine off of Cornellâs win.
Only if you assume chalk.
And I have to think that at this point, there are a lot of teams looking at ways to avoid *us* in the playoffs.
Re: Polls
Posted by: jkahn (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: January 25, 2023 10:12PM
BearLover
There are of course a lot of different ways things can go. But there are only two teams in the league that are (IMO) better than us, and if we want to win the ECAC itâs easier if we only have to beat one of them. If Q and Harvard get the 1 and 4 seeds, then we donât have to beat them both. Itâs not the biggest concern in the world, but itâs a tiebreaker when choosing who to root for in in-conference games.
In your scenario above, if Colgate loses in the quarter-finals we could still get Harvard in the semi-finals.
Also, one advantage for us with Q winning rather than losing games is the higher they rank in PWR, the more Quality Wins Bonus points we get.
___________________________
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 25, 2023 10:26PM
Thatâs a good point re: Colgate losing in the quarterfinals. Still, I think Colgate winning has the most upside for us. More than anything, I hate Quinnipiac.jkahn
BearLover
There are of course a lot of different ways things can go. But there are only two teams in the league that are (IMO) better than us, and if we want to win the ECAC itâs easier if we only have to beat one of them. If Q and Harvard get the 1 and 4 seeds, then we donât have to beat them both. Itâs not the biggest concern in the world, but itâs a tiebreaker when choosing who to root for in in-conference games.
In your scenario above, if Colgate loses in the quarter-finals we could still get Harvard in the semi-finals.
Also, one advantage for us with Q winning rather than losing games is the higher they rank in PWR, the more Quality Wins Bonus points we get.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 26, 2023 05:51AM
BearLover
More than anything, I hate Quinnipiac.
So say we all.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: January 26, 2023 07:58AM
The 4th-place finisher will have a difficult QF. Let's all agree to finish top 3 and then worry about the ordering above that.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (198.232.62.---)
Date: January 31, 2023 03:01PM
Draft picks per team by Pairwise ranking (top three round picks in parentheses):
1. Minnesotaâ14 (7)
2. Quinnipiacâ3 (0)
3. Boston Universityâ12 (8)
4. Michiganâ12 (7)
5. St. Cloudâ4 (2)
6. Penn Stateâ2 (0)
7. Denverâ12 (6)
8. Ohio Stateâ3 (2)
9. Harvardâ15 (4)
10. Western Michiganâ4 (0)
11. Cornellâ3 (1)
1. Minnesotaâ14 (7)
2. Quinnipiacâ3 (0)
3. Boston Universityâ12 (8)
4. Michiganâ12 (7)
5. St. Cloudâ4 (2)
6. Penn Stateâ2 (0)
7. Denverâ12 (6)
8. Ohio Stateâ3 (2)
9. Harvardâ15 (4)
10. Western Michiganâ4 (0)
11. Cornellâ3 (1)
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: January 31, 2023 04:15PM
Didn't Michigan have something like 1, 2, 4, and 5 overall at some point? Are they all still there?
Re: Polls
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 31, 2023 06:26PM
Trotsky
Didn't Michigan have something like 1, 2, 4, and 5 overall at some point? Are they all still there?
This year or last year?
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 31, 2023 06:33PM
I dunno, man, it all blends together.marty
Trotsky
Didn't Michigan have something like 1, 2, 4, and 5 overall at some point? Are they all still there?
This year or last year?
Re: Polls
Posted by: toddlose (76.117.252.---)
Date: January 31, 2023 10:11PM
Trotsky
I dunno, man, it all blends together.marty
Trotsky
Didn't Michigan have something like 1, 2, 4, and 5 overall at some point? Are they all still there?
This year or last year?
Luke Hughes is still there. Waiting on him joining his brother in Newark.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 07:48AM by toddlose.
Re: Polls
Posted by: scoop85 (---.nyc.biz.rr.com)
Date: February 01, 2023 09:18AM
marty
Trotsky
Didn't Michigan have something like 1, 2, 4, and 5 overall at some point? Are they all still there?
This year or last year?
That would've been last year's roster, which featured Owen Power, Matt Berniers, Luke Hughes, and Kent Johnson, all of whom were the top 5 picks. I don't know if we'll ever again see anything like it.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: February 01, 2023 10:50AM
Was Berniers a Cornell decommit or am I hallucinating?
Edit: oh, wait, maybe he was a Harvard decommit.
Edit: oh, wait, maybe he was a Harvard decommit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 10:50AM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: dbilmes (64.224.255.---)
Date: February 01, 2023 10:56AM
He was a Harvard signee originally, but switched to Michigan once it became uncertain that the Ivies would have a hockey season in 2020-21.Trotsky
Was Berniers a Cornell decommit or am I hallucinating?
Edit: oh, wait, maybe he was a Harvard decommit.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2023 11:06AM
Last yearâs Michigan team had 7 first round draft picks. This yearâs team isnât quite as talented, but still has 4 first round picks, including Luke Hughes, who returned for his sophomore year. The other three top five picks from last year are now all having successful rookie seasons in the NHL. Now that the best players from the US are almost always going to the NCAAs, we are seeing a lot more elite NHL talent in the college ranks.scoop85
marty
Trotsky
Didn't Michigan have something like 1, 2, 4, and 5 overall at some point? Are they all still there?
This year or last year?
That would've been last year's roster, which featured Owen Power, Matt Berniers, Luke Hughes, and Kent Johnson, all of whom were the top 5 picks. I don't know if we'll ever again see anything like it.
Re: Polls
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 01, 2023 12:18PM
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Weder (136.226.51.---)
Date: February 01, 2023 01:09PM
upprdeck
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
I think there's very little chance a college hockey player will get that kind of money. According to this site, in the first year of NIL, men's hockey didn't even register in terms of compensation, and women's hockey accounted for 0.2% of NIL compensation. If it's not football or basketball, there doesn't seem to be much interest in NIL deals. The vast majority of NIL deals amount to pizza money.
[businessofcollegesports.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 01:11PM by Weder.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2023 01:33PM
Thatâs good. Cornell would have absolutely no shot of competing with bigger schools if NIL ever became a thing in hockey and lacrosse. Still, all it takes is one rich booster of Michigan hockey to promise recruits huge paydays if they come.Weder
upprdeck
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
I think there's very little chance a college hockey player will get that kind of money. According to this site, in the first year of NIL, men's hockey didn't even register in terms of compensation, and women's hockey accounted for 0.2% of NIL compensation. If it's not football or basketball, there doesn't seem to be much interest in NIL deals. The vast majority of NIL deals amount to pizza money.
[businessofcollegesports.com]
Re: Polls
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2023 02:16PM
there are two kinds of NIL deals: future recruiting scandals* and money going to people who are already social media influencers. the top NIL deals in the country are going to, like, women's volleyball players of no particular athletic distinction who had a million followers on IG before** graduating high school
* i support this, for the record, i'm just saying
** i also support this. get that money (with a caveat about social media and body comparison issues)
* i support this, for the record, i'm just saying
** i also support this. get that money (with a caveat about social media and body comparison issues)
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 02:17PM by ugarte.
Re: Polls
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 01, 2023 02:31PM
So this report says there is more money being spent on money for womens hockey than mens?
Think of it this way.. If you are a mich alum and you want to see your school win.. why would you spend money on a sport other than fball/bball or hockey?
its also not really explaining the stats very well.
if you gave every kid across the board 5K fball would by far have the most compensation.
baseball is interesting though
Also interesting in that Ala had 25% of the kids actually earn a deal in fball.
Think of it this way.. If you are a mich alum and you want to see your school win.. why would you spend money on a sport other than fball/bball or hockey?
its also not really explaining the stats very well.
if you gave every kid across the board 5K fball would by far have the most compensation.
baseball is interesting though
Also interesting in that Ala had 25% of the kids actually earn a deal in fball.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Dafatone (---.sub-174-215-246.myvzw.com)
Date: February 01, 2023 02:45PM
I donât think it sways recruiting, but if you're, say, East Hill Car Wash, why not throw Sam Malinski $500 to sing a verse?
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2023 04:50PM
Dafatone
I donât think it sways recruiting, but if you're, say, East Hill Car Wash, why not throw Sam Malinski $500 to sing a verse?
"Vot a difference in this generation, tovarish." -- Max Andreev
Re: Polls
Posted by: pfibiger (---.sub-174-211-225.myvzw.com)
Date: February 01, 2023 05:22PM
Trotsky
Was Berniers a Cornell decommit or am I hallucinating?
Edit: oh, wait, maybe he was a Harvard decommit.
His parents are both Cornell grads â his dad played football.
Re: Polls
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2023 05:28PM
oh i see. he's a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENTpfibiger
Trotsky
Was Berniers a Cornell decommit or am I hallucinating?
Edit: oh, wait, maybe he was a Harvard decommit.
His parents are both Cornell grads â his dad played football.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Polls
Posted by: RichH (---.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com)
Date: February 01, 2023 05:28PM
Trotsky
Dafatone
I donât think it sways recruiting, but if you're, say, East Hill Car Wash, why not throw Sam Malinski $500 to sing a verse?
"Vot a difference in this generation, tovarish." -- Max Andreev
These guys have had injuries. Maybe let them talk about their medical treatments and give poor RC Holmes from Watkins Glen a break from reliving how he tore his patellar tendon.
Re: Polls
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2023 05:51PM
i don't remember which game it was but i was watching a cornell road game (brown maybe?) and they had a local commercial that reminded me of the Cayuga Medical Center commercial so much I started laughing uncontrollablyRichH
Trotsky
Dafatone
I donât think it sways recruiting, but if you're, say, East Hill Car Wash, why not throw Sam Malinski $500 to sing a verse?
"Vot a difference in this generation, tovarish." -- Max Andreev
These guys have had injuries. Maybe let them talk about their medical treatments and give poor RC Holmes from Watkins Glen a break from reliving how he tore his patellar tendon.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Polls
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: February 01, 2023 07:04PM
ugarte
oh i see. he's a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENTpfibiger
Trotsky
Was Berniers a Cornell decommit or am I hallucinating?
Edit: oh, wait, maybe he was a Harvard decommit.
His parents are both Cornell grads â his dad played football.
Yeah, thatâs about right. Likewise Ian Mooreâs dad was also a Cornellian (Ian was drafted in the 3rd round last year by the Ducks and is a sophomore defenseman for Harvard)
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 02, 2023 02:50AM
We have lost a lot of Cornell brats over the years. Ethan by Kent out of Kim comes to mind.
Re: Polls
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: February 02, 2023 08:47AM
Trotsky
We have lost a lot of Cornell brats over the years. Ethan by Kent out of Kim comes to mind.
Mandervilleâs a nice playerâI would compare him with Tukper. But Moore and especially Berniers are at a different level.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 02, 2023 10:10AM
Ethan Manderville and Jackson Nieuwendyk are two recent sons of Cornell legends who chose to play hockey at other schools. Neither put up great junior hockey numbers, and the schools they committed to (Colgate and Niagara) suggest they werenât heavily recruited. They could turn out to be fine players, and Iâm sure the Cornell coaching staff did their due diligence, but as scoop85 said, they arenât on the same level as Moore and especially Beniers. For whatever reason, weâve been about to stack up âgoodâ recruits, but the true blue chip recruits donât seem to view Cornell Hockey in the way they view BC, BU, Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, NoDak, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and, unfortunately, Harvard.Trotsky
We have lost a lot of Cornell brats over the years. Ethan by Kent out of Kim comes to mind.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: February 02, 2023 12:34PM
BearLover
For whatever reason, weâve been about to stack up âgoodâ recruits, but the true blue chip recruits donât seem to view Cornell Hockey in the way they view BC, BU, Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, NoDak, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and, unfortunately, Harvard.
Re: Polls
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 02, 2023 12:57PM
BearLover
Ethan Manderville and Jackson Nieuwendyk are two recent sons of Cornell legends who chose to play hockey at other schools. Neither put up great junior hockey numbers, and the schools they committed to (Colgate and Niagara) suggest they werenât heavily recruited. They could turn out to be fine players, and Iâm sure the Cornell coaching staff did their due diligence, but as scoop85 said, they arenât on the same level as Moore and especially Beniers. For whatever reason, weâve been about to stack up âgoodâ recruits, but the true blue chip recruits donât seem to view Cornell Hockey in the way they view BC, BU, Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, NoDak, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and, unfortunately, Harvard.Trotsky
We have lost a lot of Cornell brats over the years. Ethan by Kent out of Kim comes to mind.
or it could just come down to cost of attendance..
Re: Polls
Posted by: Iceberg (---.uphs.upenn.edu)
Date: February 02, 2023 01:10PM
Harvard happens to be in MA so I'm sure that helps for some recruits. That's not to say Cornell hasn't gotten its fair share of good players from MA over the years, but still
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (198.232.62.---)
Date: February 02, 2023 01:26PM
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.Trotsky
BearLover
For whatever reason, weâve been about to stack up âgoodâ recruits, but the true blue chip recruits donât seem to view Cornell Hockey in the way they view BC, BU, Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, NoDak, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and, unfortunately, Harvard.
Re: Polls
Posted by: RichH (---.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com)
Date: February 02, 2023 02:05PM
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, team control considerations, or developmental expectations. Sasha Pokulok and Reilly Nash went much higher than their rankings, IIRC. There are teams that feel much more comfortable drafting from the collegiate pool than others. Thereâs historically been a premium on size, and smaller, more talented skaters could slip a lot down the draft board, or off it altogether. (See St. Louis, Martin)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2023 02:06PM by RichH.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (198.232.62.---)
Date: February 02, 2023 02:15PM
Thatâs all true. Though, the premium on size should lead to Cornell having more, now fewer, players drafted.RichH
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, team control considerations, or developmental expectations. Sasha Pokulok and Reilly Nash went much higher than their rankings, IIRC. There are teams that feel much more comfortable drafting from the collegiate pool than others. Thereâs historically been a premium on size, and smaller, more talented skaters could slip a lot down the draft board, or off it altogether. (See St. Louis, Martin)
Re: Polls
Posted by: Dafatone (---.sub-174-215-241.myvzw.com)
Date: February 02, 2023 02:24PM
BearLover
Thatâs all true. Though, the premium on size should lead to Cornell having more, now fewer, players drafted.RichH
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, team control considerations, or developmental expectations. Sasha Pokulok and Reilly Nash went much higher than their rankings, IIRC. There are teams that feel much more comfortable drafting from the collegiate pool than others. Thereâs historically been a premium on size, and smaller, more talented skaters could slip a lot down the draft board, or off it altogether. (See St. Louis, Martin)
Interestingly, we've stayed big even as we've gotten more skilled, but our big guys don't play as big. Which is why I think we struggle sometimes with less talented physical teams (more last year than this year).
Our guys aren't as used to having to use their size.
Re: Polls
Posted by: RichH (---.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com)
Date: February 02, 2023 02:26PM
BearLover
Thatâs all true. Though, the premium on size should lead to Cornell having more, now fewer, players drafted.RichH
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, team control considerations, or developmental expectations. Sasha Pokulok and Reilly Nash went much higher than their rankings, IIRC. There are teams that feel much more comfortable drafting from the collegiate pool than others. Thereâs historically been a premium on size, and smaller, more talented skaters could slip a lot down the draft board, or off it altogether. (See St. Louis, Martin)
Perhaps that already has increased the number of Cornell drafted players. I donât really care. We seem to secure a certain type of player, who can fit and buy into aâŠhow do you sayâŠsystem. Iâm not claiming to know how the staff recruits, but they seem to have found a fairly consistent level of success no matter who they bring in. Spend time chasing blue-chippers or pieces that fit a puzzle, thatâs the choice you often have to make, since Iâm guessing their resources are quite a bit more limited compared to the big jock factories.
As for the one that sparks thisâŠlike it or not, âMy boy is going to Harvardâ just has a lot more weight to ma & pa than anything the Cornell brand can offer.
Re: Polls
Posted by: abmarks (---.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
Date: February 02, 2023 03:48PM
RichH
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, te.
As for the one that sparks thisâŠlike it or not, âMy boy is going to Harvardâ just has a lot more weight to ma & pa than anything the Cornell brand can offer.
Harvard's also in Boston. Yeah, yeah, Trotsky hates Boston, but for many recruits (and their parents) Boston > Ithaca (or any small college town).
Re: Polls
Posted by: abmarks (---.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
Date: February 02, 2023 03:54PM
BearLover
Ethan Manderville and Jackson Nieuwendyk are two recent sons of Cornell legends who chose to play hockey at other schools. Neither put up great junior hockey numbers, and the schools they committed to (Colgate and Niagara) suggest they werenât heavily recruited. They could turn out to be fine players, and Iâm sure the Cornell coaching staff did their due diligence, but as scoop85 said, they arenât on the same level as Moore and especially Beniers. For whatever reason, weâve been about to stack up âgoodâ recruits, but the true blue chip recruits donât seem to view Cornell Hockey in the way they view BC, BU, Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, NoDak, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and, unfortunately, Harvard.Trotsky
We have lost a lot of Cornell brats over the years. Ethan by Kent out of Kim comes to mind.
Do you have some stats for all Ivy's?
Wondering where we fall on the Blue Chip count vs. our peers.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 02, 2023 09:39PM
Not at all. I like Boston.abmarks
Harvard's also in Boston. Yeah, yeah, Trotsky hates Boston, but for many recruits (and their parents) Boston > Ithaca (or any small college town).
I hate Bostonians. The students and transplants are great. Just drag everybody born there out into the ocean on a garbage scow and sink it.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Roy 82 (128.18.241.---)
Date: February 02, 2023 10:01PM
Trotsky
Not at all. I like Boston.abmarks
Harvard's also in Boston. Yeah, yeah, Trotsky hates Boston, but for many recruits (and their parents) Boston > Ithaca (or any small college town).
I hate Bostonians. The students and transplants are great. Just drag everybody born there out into the ocean on a garbage scow and sink it.
Why do you hate Bostonians so much that you wish to murder them?
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 02, 2023 10:02PM
Ever eaten with them?Roy 82
Trotsky
Not at all. I like Boston.abmarks
Harvard's also in Boston. Yeah, yeah, Trotsky hates Boston, but for many recruits (and their parents) Boston > Ithaca (or any small college town).
I hate Bostonians. The students and transplants are great. Just drag everybody born there out into the ocean on a garbage scow and sink it.
Why do you hate Bostonians so much that you wish to murder them?
Re: Polls
Posted by: Dafatone (---.sub-174-215-241.myvzw.com)
Date: February 02, 2023 10:04PM
Trotsky
Not at all. I like Boston.abmarks
Harvard's also in Boston. Yeah, yeah, Trotsky hates Boston, but for many recruits (and their parents) Boston > Ithaca (or any small college town).
I hate Bostonians. The students and transplants are great. Just drag everybody born there out into the ocean on a garbage scow and sink it.
While I strongly support location-based hatred, I'm curious what parts of the country have residents you do like.
Re: Polls
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: February 02, 2023 11:01PM
Dafatone
Trotsky
Not at all. I like Boston.abmarks
Harvard's also in Boston. Yeah, yeah, Trotsky hates Boston, but for many recruits (and their parents) Boston > Ithaca (or any small college town).
I hate Bostonians. The students and transplants are great. Just drag everybody born there out into the ocean on a garbage scow and sink it.
While I strongly support location-based hatred, I'm curious what parts of the country have residents you do like.
Hah!
Re: Polls
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 01:38AM
RichH
BearLover
Thatâs all true. Though, the premium on size should lead to Cornell having more, now fewer, players drafted.RichH
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, team control considerations, or developmental expectations. Sasha Pokulok and Reilly Nash went much higher than their rankings, IIRC. There are teams that feel much more comfortable drafting from the collegiate pool than others. Thereâs historically been a premium on size, and smaller, more talented skaters could slip a lot down the draft board, or off it altogether. (See St. Louis, Martin)
Perhaps that already has increased the number of Cornell drafted players. I donât really care. We seem to secure a certain type of player, who can fit and buy into aâŠhow do you sayâŠsystem. Iâm not claiming to know how the staff recruits, but they seem to have found a fairly consistent level of success no matter who they bring in. Spend time chasing blue-chippers or pieces that fit a puzzle, thatâs the choice you often have to make, since Iâm guessing their resources are quite a bit more limited compared to the big jock factories.
As for the one that sparks thisâŠlike it or not, âMy boy is going to Harvardâ just has a lot more weight to ma & pa than anything the Cornell brand can offer.
By this logic one would expect Princeton & Yale to be perennial powers and Quinnipiac, a perennial doormat. Yale did catch lightning in a bottle in 2013, but not consistently, and I donât recall a plethora of first round picks on that team.
While you may be right about the Harvard name being part of the explanation, I think the evidence suggests this is not the whole story.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 03:10AM
Yale was consistently great during that period. They were not a flash in the plan. Yale made the NCAAs in â09, â10, â11, â13, â15, â16. But youâre correct that they didnât have many players drafted. It looks like the 2013 team only had a single draft pick on its roster (John Hayden, third round).Swampy
RichH
BearLover
Thatâs all true. Though, the premium on size should lead to Cornell having more, now fewer, players drafted.RichH
BearLover
I mean, there are all sorts of very reasonable explanations for why blue chippers donât come to Cornell. But the fact we get so many players who are just a step or two below the blue chippers makes me wonder why we canât snag a first- or second-rounder from time to time. We were getting them every so often in the early 2000s.
Thereâs also the case of an NHL team/GM making unusual or unexpected decisions based on needs, team control considerations, or developmental expectations. Sasha Pokulok and Reilly Nash went much higher than their rankings, IIRC. There are teams that feel much more comfortable drafting from the collegiate pool than others. Thereâs historically been a premium on size, and smaller, more talented skaters could slip a lot down the draft board, or off it altogether. (See St. Louis, Martin)
Perhaps that already has increased the number of Cornell drafted players. I donât really care. We seem to secure a certain type of player, who can fit and buy into aâŠhow do you sayâŠsystem. Iâm not claiming to know how the staff recruits, but they seem to have found a fairly consistent level of success no matter who they bring in. Spend time chasing blue-chippers or pieces that fit a puzzle, thatâs the choice you often have to make, since Iâm guessing their resources are quite a bit more limited compared to the big jock factories.
As for the one that sparks thisâŠlike it or not, âMy boy is going to Harvardâ just has a lot more weight to ma & pa than anything the Cornell brand can offer.
By this logic one would expect Princeton & Yale to be perennial powers and Quinnipiac, a perennial doormat. Yale did catch lightning in a bottle in 2013, but not consistently, and I donât recall a plethora of first round picks on that team.
While you may be right about the Harvard name being part of the explanation, I think the evidence suggests this is not the whole story.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 06:34AM
Dafatone
While I strongly support location-based hatred, I'm curious what parts of the country have residents you do like.
West of Interstate 77 + North of Interstate 40.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 07:58AM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: ursusminor (---.res.east.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 07:35AM
scoop85
Trotsky
We have lost a lot of Cornell brats over the years. Ethan by Kent out of Kim comes to mind.
Mandervilleâs a nice playerâI would compare him with Tukper. But Moore and especially Berniers are at a different level.
About week ago, RPI received a commitment from legacy Landen Hilditch, son of Todd Hilditch â92. If he does show up, he will be RPIâs first legacy to play for the 'Tute since Ken Kearns, son of Garry Kearns â58, played one game in 1980-1. Garry was also RPIâs coach. The only other RPI legacy at RPI whom I know about is John Magadini who played on the 1954 NCAA championship team. His father was A. J. Magadini, captain in 1929-30.
RPI has had many legacies of other schools. E.g., Dan Peace '08 whose father played for Cornell and at least three on the current roster. I am sure that Cornell wasn't interested in Peace.
![:-P :-P](http://elf.elynah.com/smileys/5.gif)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 07:37AM by ursusminor.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 03, 2023 08:27AM
Trotsky
Dafatone
While I strongly support location-based hatred, I'm curious what parts of the country have residents you do like.
West of Interstate 77 + North of Interstate 40.
Kentucky?!
If that was your attempt to delineate the beginning of the Midwest, you are way off target. I always say anything west of the Appalachians and north of the Ohio. Conversations full of the Northern Cities Shift, with all those nasal flat As. Buffalonians, for example, are VERY midwestern. Itâs the transplants from downstate that sour the batch. Pittsburgh is a special case, phonologically, but it fits. Places like Syracuse, Ithaca, Binghamton, and Scranton are tough to place.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 08:30AM
It was my answer. I am not responsible for your reaction.Scersk '97
If that was your attempt to delineate the beginning of the Midwest
Also do not conflate the political livability of a place with whether its people are tolerable. Those are different axes.
Good politics, good people: Oregon
Bad politics, good people: Utah
Good politics, bad people: New York
Bad politics, bad people: Mississippi
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 08:34AM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 03, 2023 08:55AM
Trotsky
It was my answer. I am not responsible for your reaction.Scersk '97
If that was your attempt to delineate the beginning of the Midwest
Also do not conflate the political livability of a place with whether its people are tolerable. Those are different axes.
Good politics, good people: Oregon
Bad politics, good people: Utah
Good politics, bad people: New York
Bad politics, bad people: Mississippi
My obvious response is that it was at best an incomplete answer. Your perceptions are your own, of course. How could I doubt your lived experience? But boundaries delineated by highways are specious. They haven't really been around long enough to be part of the "geography," in the Caesarian "geography is destiny" sense.
Again, Kentucky? And what of the personal tolerability of Michiganders?
But your further point is valid. Wisconsin and Wisconsonians are generally great. The political climate in Wisconsin is off-the-chart wacko.
EDIT: Oh, and also, Missouri? Whoa.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 08:57AM by Scersk '97.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 09:13AM
Possibly I'm not entirely serious.Scersk '97
But boundaries delineated by highways are specious.
Possibly.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 03, 2023 09:27AM
Trotsky
Possibly I'm not entirely serious.Scersk '97
But boundaries delineated by highways are specious.
Possibly.
Occasionally, I poke people's unserious answers for my own unserious enjoyment, because drilling down into specifics highlights the hilarity and futility of the search for knowledge.
Occasionally.
But, seriously, southern Missouri is the SouthâI mean, the SOUTH in the old sense. You won't catch me summering in the Ozarks unchaperoned, and I generally know how to handle myself aroundâlet's be delicateâparochial rural folk. I'm staying above US-50, thanks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 09:33AM by Scersk '97.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 09:33AM
The South is 50 miles outside every city in America.Scersk '97
Trotsky
Possibly I'm not entirely serious.Scersk '97
But boundaries delineated by highways are specious.
Possibly.
Occasionally, I poke people's unserious answers for my own unserious enjoyment, because drilling down into specifics highlights the hilarity and futility of the search for knowledge.
Occasionally.
But, seriously, southern Missouri is the SouthâI mean, the SOUTH in the old sense. You won't catch me summering in the Ozarks unchaperoned.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 03, 2023 09:37AM
Trotsky
The South is 50 miles outside every city in America.Scersk '97
Trotsky
Possibly I'm not entirely serious.Scersk '97
But boundaries delineated by highways are specious.
Possibly.
Occasionally, I poke people's unserious answers for my own unserious enjoyment, because drilling down into specifics highlights the hilarity and futility of the search for knowledge.
Occasionally.
But, seriously, southern Missouri is the SouthâI mean, the SOUTH in the old sense. You won't catch me summering in the Ozarks unchaperoned.
Sorry I edited over you, but you may have a point.
But one's "south" highly depends on how one grew up. I am not threatened at all by people 50 miles outside anyplace I'm familiar with, like in upstate or the true Midwest. But 50 miles outside, say, Pocatello, Idaho or Lubbock, Texas? I don't speak their language, so I've learned to tread lightly.
I could go on here about the decline of railroads, but that would require day drinking.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 09:38AM by Scersk '97.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 03, 2023 09:48AM
The South is WHCU listeners when the game's not on. The term is broadly inclusive. Which is ironic.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 03, 2023 10:14AM
Trotsky
The South is WHCU listeners when the game's not on. The term is broadly inclusive. Which is ironic.
From what I heard the other day frustratingly waiting for the internet feed to switch over, the non-game programming of WHCU is indeed not filled with the kind of conservatives, i.e., those who at this point are former Republicans and not welcome within their former circles because they refuse to genuflect to the Orange Idol, who provide any sort of useful voice in our politics. What I heard was programming meant for the nihilist fringe, a kind of anti-VOA broadcast from within.
Any wonder that I can often pick up WHCU best over-the-air in the backwoods of the 'Dacks and Greens when I'm on my typical road trips these days? Yet WHCU listeners aren't a majority in those areas either. There is still a current of rationality out there in them thar hills.
Re: Polls
Posted by: marty (---.sub-174-231-53.myvzw.com)
Date: February 03, 2023 05:01PM
ursusminor
RPI has had many legacies of other schools. E.g., Dan Peace '08 whose father played for Cornell and at least three on the current roster. I am sure that Cornell wasn't interested in Peace.It also has had many play elsewhere.
Dave Peace wasn't happy about that, but you are correct.
Re: Polls 2/6 still 11th
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 06, 2023 02:04PM
Polls as of Monday, Feb. 6, after beating RPI and <whomp> Union, no improvement
USCHO Cornell 11 unchanged
1 Minnesota
2 Quinnipiac
3 BU
10 Harvard
HM Colgate (last team mentioned)
USA Today coaches-writers Cornell 11 --> unchanged
1 Minnesota
2 Quinnipiac
3 BU
8 Harvard was 10th
HM Colgate
Pairwise
1 Minnesota
2 Quinnipiac
3 BU
10 Harvard was 6
12 Cornell was 9
...
36 Colgate was 27
...
60 Lindenwood
60 Dartmouth
USCHO Cornell 11 unchanged
1 Minnesota
2 Quinnipiac
3 BU
10 Harvard
HM Colgate (last team mentioned)
USA Today coaches-writers Cornell 11 --> unchanged
1 Minnesota
2 Quinnipiac
3 BU
8 Harvard was 10th
HM Colgate
Pairwise
1 Minnesota
2 Quinnipiac
3 BU
10 Harvard was 6
12 Cornell was 9
...
36 Colgate was 27
...
60 Lindenwood
60 Dartmouth
Re: Polls 2/6 still 11th
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 06, 2023 06:33PM
TFW you've been playing top rung hockey since the Austro-Hungarian Empire existed, the Coaching Heisman Trophy is named after your coach, and you're as bad as a school nobody had heard of before last summer.billhoward
60 Lindenwood
60 Dartmouth
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2023 06:36PM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: March 01, 2023 02:44PM
USCHO 2/27: 2 Qpc, 5 Hvd, 12 Cor
USA 2/27: 2 Qpc, 5 Hvd, 13 Cor
USA 2/27: 2 Qpc, 5 Hvd, 13 Cor
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: March 06, 2023 01:30PM
March 6 USCHO
Rnk Team (1st) Record Points Last
1 Minnesota (38) 25-8-1 988 1
2 Quinnipiac (12) 28-3-3 955 2
3 Denver 28-8-0 906 3
4 Michigan 22-11-3 820 4
5 Boston University 24-10-0 760 7
6 Harvard 21-6-2 754 5
7 Western Michigan 23-12-1 685 8
8 St. Cloud 20-11-3 663 6
9 Ohio State 20-14-3 605 9
10 Michigan Tech 24-9-4 517 11
11 Penn State 21-15-1 510 10
12 Cornell 18-9-2 447 12
13 Minnesota State 23-12-1 436 13
14 Merrimack 21-12-1 300 16
15 Northeastern 17-12-5 242 15
16 Alaska 22-10-2 237 18
17 Omaha 18-13-3 189 14
18 Michigan State 18-17-2 170 20
19 Connecticut 20-11-3 169 17
20 RIT 24-11-1 56 NR
Others receiving votes: Notre Dame 41, North Dakota 27, UMass Lowell 16, Boston College 4, Northern Michigan 3
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2023 01:33PM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: George64 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: March 26, 2023 11:42AM
upprdeck
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
Until I read this article, I hadnât realized how out-of-hand NIL has become. I think itâs just a matter of time before it filters down to B1G hockey, if it hasnât already.
Call me naive, but this just floored me, âNijel Packâs two-year, $800,000 contract with Miami booster John Ruiz is the most publicized NIL deal since the NCAA began allowing college athletes to make money off their popularity. ACC player of the year Isaiah Wongâs $100,000 deal with Ruiz also became public knowledge.â
I like to think our well-heeled alumni have more important priorities. I think we can soon forget about a third NC$$ championship. Iâll settle for a Cleary Cup and ECAC Championship.
.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 26, 2023 11:55AM
I agree. Things are trending in a bad direction. 2020 felt like our last great opportunity. Letâs root for the ECAC to start to suck again so we can actually win a trophy of some kind.George64
upprdeck
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
Until I read this article, I hadnât realized how out-of-hand NIL has become. I think itâs just a matter of time before it filters down to B1G hockey, if it hasnât already.
Call me naive, but this just floored me, âNijel Packâs two-year, $800,000 contract with Miami booster John Ruiz is the most publicized NIL deal since the NCAA began allowing college athletes to make money off their popularity. ACC player of the year Isaiah Wongâs $100,000 deal with Ruiz also became public knowledge.â
I like to think our well-heeled alumni have more important priorities. I think we can soon forget about a third NC$$ championship. Iâll settle for a Cleary Cup and ECAC Championship.
.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BMac (107.122.157.---)
Date: March 26, 2023 01:04PM
Wow fascinating article.
Hockey is very different from football and bball- franchises have ALREADY drafted these kids, so whatâs stopping them from paying their big prospects via an NIL contract?
Hockey is very different from football and bball- franchises have ALREADY drafted these kids, so whatâs stopping them from paying their big prospects via an NIL contract?
Re: Polls
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 26, 2023 01:14PM
BMac
Wow fascinating article.
Hockey is very different from football and bball- franchises have ALREADY drafted these kids, so whatâs stopping them from paying their big prospects via an NIL contract?
I doubt they can do that (at least directly) without the player being under contract.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BMac (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: March 26, 2023 01:24PM
Why can some booster pay but their future employee no? NHL rules?
Re: Polls
Posted by: JasonN95 (---.sub-174-197-199.myvzw.com)
Date: March 26, 2023 02:32PM
BMac
Why can some booster pay but their future employee no? NHL rules?
Why would a NHL team want to pay a drafted player? They already have the kid locked up, no?
Re: Polls
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 26, 2023 02:40PM
JasonN95
BMac
Why can some booster pay but their future employee no? NHL rules?
Why would a NHL team want to pay a drafted player? They already have the kid locked up, no?
If they donât sign out of college then they will become a free agent, so if they were permitted to do an NIL deal with a drafted player I imagine that could help lock them up.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BMac (107.122.157.---)
Date: March 26, 2023 02:55PM
Exactly. Also, why would a âboosterâ pay $800k for Nijel Pack to pay bball at Miami?
I can also imagine agents paying kids just for the HOPE theyâd sign with them after school.
I can also imagine agents paying kids just for the HOPE theyâd sign with them after school.
Re: Polls
Posted by: George64 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: March 26, 2023 03:28PM
Do you suppose that some unsavory Ivy alum might use NIL to get around our athletic âscholarshipâ ban? Bob Kane â34, former Dean of Athletics and Physical Education at Cornell and president of the USOC, must be turning over in his grave. He was a true gentleman (and great writer), who truly believed in the now antiquated ideal of amateurism.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 26, 2023 03:43PM
George64
Do you suppose that some unsavory Ivy alum might use NIL to get around our athletic âscholarshipâ ban? Bob Kane â34, former Dean of Athletics and Physical Education at Cornell and president of the USOC, must be turning over in his grave. He was a true gentleman (and great writer), who truly believed in the now antiquated ideal of amateurism.
Yeah, but amateurism was just a gatekeeping device to keep the Poors out.
Pay them in tequila, coke, and Quinnipiac cheerleaders. Know your market.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2023 03:43PM by Trotsky.
Re: Polls
Posted by: abmarks (---.mycingular.net)
Date: March 26, 2023 04:44PM
George64
upprdeck
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
Until I read this article, I hadnât realized how out-of-hand NIL has become. I think itâs just a matter of time before it filters down to B1G hockey, if it hasnât already.
Call me naive, but this just floored me, âNijel Packâs two-year, $800,000 contract with Miami booster John Ruiz is the most publicized NIL deal since the NCAA began allowing college athletes to make money off their popularity. ACC player of the year Isaiah Wongâs $100,000 deal with Ruiz also became public knowledge.â
I like to think our well-heeled alumni have more important priorities. I think we can soon forget about a third NC$$ championship. Iâll settle for a Cleary Cup and ECAC Championship.
.
Probably is already in big10
From [www.collegehockeynews.com]
Michigan Tech coach Joe Shawhan:
"There's a side of this that you're starting to see â I probably shouldn't even get into this â you're starting to see the emergence of the (transfer) portal and the NIL and the Alston money (Name, Image and Likeness rights) and all those things," Shawhan said. "The Big Ten is flexing a little muscle right now, and how to do you compete with players who are getting paid. And things like that. And they're jumping ship, jumping ship, jumping ship. You're putting your team together, and people can put their team together out of the portal now.
"And I'm not complaining about it. I just think college hockey's such a beautiful sport, and the parity, the opportunity for schools like St. Cloud, Michigan Tech, Mankato, Duluth â all Division II schools that have one a lot of national championships â you look at their roster and you say, 'Well, I could use that guy, I could use that guy.' You see it everywhere. To take the parity out of it, all of a sudden you get the SEC and the Big Ten in football, that's all you get, and lose everybody else.
"Even coaches will be jumping ship. Tough way to go through life when you're trying to teach life lessons and develop men. But ... we're not at that point yet. I was just digressing."
Re: Polls
Posted by: George64 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: April 21, 2023 10:14PM
George64
upprdeck
i wonder if the NIL game will trickle into college hockey or maybe it already has for those bigger schools.. play college make 500K is pretty good for the high level talent.
Until I read this article, I hadnât realized how out-of-hand NIL has become. I think itâs just a matter of time before it filters down to B1G hockey, if it hasnât already.
Call me naive, but this just floored me, âNijel Packâs two-year, $800,000 contract with Miami booster John Ruiz is the most publicized NIL deal since the NCAA began allowing college athletes to make money off their popularity. ACC player of the year Isaiah Wongâs $100,000 deal with Ruiz also became public knowledge.â
I like to think our well-heeled alumni have more important priorities. I think we can soon forge about a third NC$$ championship. Iâll settle for a Cleary Cup and ECAC Championship.
.
Just another example of how big-time college athletes have become de facto professionals â âUniversity of Minnesota athletic department and its exclusive multimedia rightsholder, LEARFIELD's Gopher Sports Properties, announced today that Dinkytown Athletes is the Official NIL Collective of Gopher Athletics.
Dinkytown Athletes launched in 2022 and is affectionately named after the historic and adjacent neighborhood to campus. It had previously operated as an independent collective with the mission to support student-athletes at Minnesota with name, image and likeness (NIL) opportunities, educational resources and post-graduation career opportunities.â
Come to Minnesota, play hockey, get free tuition, room and board, AND make money. You donât even have to make your own NIL deals, weâll do it for you!
.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 21, 2023 10:24PM
Good. Everybody got rich off these guys except them. Now they're getting a piece and it's a travesty?
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 21, 2023 10:29PM
If NIL money became a thing in college hockey, Cornellâs chances of competing nationally would go to zero.Trotsky
Good. Everybody got rich off these guys except them. Now they're getting a piece and it's a travesty?
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 21, 2023 10:34PM
Yeah, fuck the players because of who I root for.BearLover
If NIL money became a thing in college hockey, Cornellâs chances of competing nationally would go to zero.Trotsky
Good. Everybody got rich off these guys except them. Now they're getting a piece and it's a travesty?
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
Re: Polls
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 21, 2023 10:56PM
I wasnât making any sort of normative claim about whether the system is good or better than what came before. Iâm just sayingâthe more NIL becomes a thing, the more winning is a function of how much money boosters dump into a program.Trotsky
Yeah, fuck the players because of who I root for.BearLover
If NIL money became a thing in college hockey, Cornellâs chances of competing nationally would go to zero.Trotsky
Good. Everybody got rich off these guys except them. Now they're getting a piece and it's a travesty?
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
Re: Polls
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 21, 2023 11:22PM
And I was saying if it's the right thing to do who cares?BearLover
I wasnât making any sort of normative claim about whether the system is good or better than what came before. Iâm just sayingâthe more NIL becomes a thing, the more winning is a function of how much money boosters dump into a program.Trotsky
Yeah, fuck the players because of who I root for.BearLover
If NIL money became a thing in college hockey, Cornellâs chances of competing nationally would go to zero.Trotsky
Good. Everybody got rich off these guys except them. Now they're getting a piece and it's a travesty?
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
Re: Polls
Posted by: George64 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: April 22, 2023 09:47AM
Trotsky
Good. Everybody got rich off these guys except them. Now they're getting a piece and it's a travesty?
Now they should unionize. Fuck the schools.
I agree that with some limits, athletes like other students should be allowed to profit from their notoriety. If a math major proves, say the Riemann Hypothesis, he/she cannot be prevented from pitching computers. My concern is the degree of university complicity. Can the local auto dealership show Minnesotaâs leading scorer in his or her uniform? Should the university be allowed, even at armâs length (Dinkytown Athletes), to broker NIL deals for its athletes? This reminds me of PACs, but thatâs a whole other annoyance.
And, BTW, Minnesota benefits from NIL deals - their athletes get paid by third parties. The university doesnât have to pay them out of the athletic department budget or contribute to their 401(k)s.
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2023 11:52AM by George64.
Re: Polls
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: April 22, 2023 10:01AM
The difference is that the math major made the money after they did something.
Should we start giving all math majors 500K a yr and hope 1 does solve some major hypothesis?
Should we start giving all math majors 500K a yr and hope 1 does solve some major hypothesis?
Re: Polls
Posted by: George64 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: April 22, 2023 11:49AM
upprdeck
The difference is that the math major made the money after they did something.
Should we start giving all math majors 500K a yr and hope 1 does solve some major hypothesis?
Touché
.
Re: Polls
Posted by: ugarte (---.sub-174-216-209.myvzw.com)
Date: April 23, 2023 12:01AM
they did what they needed to do in high school to make themselves valuable. why does everyone believe in the market until it leads to results they don't understand / like?upprdeck
The difference is that the math major made the money after they did something.
Should we start giving all math majors 500K a yr and hope 1 does solve some major hypothesis?
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Polls
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: April 23, 2023 08:57AM
because thats now how NIL is working
a person playing for Cornell might have X value promoting NIL but if a booster wants cornell to win he spends Y value to bring in a better player(s). There is no attempt to recoop the NIL value.
AMAZON makes oodles of money.. They pay well. the local place in Ithaca makes didly, so they pay little. But they dont direct compete against each other to make the same profits
in the current NIL world both have to compete against each other and pay the same.
Minn/Mich paying 500K a yr in NIL and cornell paying 5K where are the best players going to go? and in both cases the money being spent on NIL is a loss leader.
NIL is not paying the value of the player to the team its the value of a person that wants the team to win.
if a billionaire is a fan he can pay crazy money to a teams NIL since there is no cap and its not really a function of the value returned,
a person playing for Cornell might have X value promoting NIL but if a booster wants cornell to win he spends Y value to bring in a better player(s). There is no attempt to recoop the NIL value.
AMAZON makes oodles of money.. They pay well. the local place in Ithaca makes didly, so they pay little. But they dont direct compete against each other to make the same profits
in the current NIL world both have to compete against each other and pay the same.
Minn/Mich paying 500K a yr in NIL and cornell paying 5K where are the best players going to go? and in both cases the money being spent on NIL is a loss leader.
NIL is not paying the value of the player to the team its the value of a person that wants the team to win.
if a billionaire is a fan he can pay crazy money to a teams NIL since there is no cap and its not really a function of the value returned,
Re: Polls - Nov. 1 Cornell 15th
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 23, 2023 02:26PM
Iâm generally in favor of redistributing wealth, but itâs silly to pretend there arenât downsides to unchecked NIL. It would make Cornell and the vast majority of other college athletic programs totally uncompetitive nationally. I and many here would stop seriously following if we had no chance to win. I hope college hockey never turns into what college football and basketball have become.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.